/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.6766024]

The Great Debate

[Anonymous No.6766027]

>>6766024
RICHTER MODE > MARIA MODE > SAMUS ACTION REPLAY > SAMUS > NG+ ALUCARD > ALUCARD

[Anonymous No.6766065]

>>6766024
shit thread

[Anonymous No.6766083]

Two very different games, one which influenced the other, and causes sóyjournos to permanently create the nonsensical term "Metroidvania" (even though it should just be called "Metroid-like", similar to how Roguelike was created), hence the spammed forced meme joke on here, "scotformer", etc.

[Anonymous No.6766092]

>>6766083
SOTN added RPG elements to the genre, which were fleshed out further/better in later Castlevania entries.
Correct me if there are earlier games in the style that did so.

[Anonymous No.6766094]

>>6766092
Castlequest, Maze of Galious, uh.. probably some others, but the point is is that it's incredibly redundant to call it by this retarded name, especially since "Metroid" is already part of the term's name.

[Anonymous No.6766097]

>>6766092
>gambling
>good

pick one

[Anonymous No.6766109]

I like Super Metroid more, but SotN is still one of the best Playstation games

[Anonymous No.6766142]

>>6766024
Why even debate, noone changes, noones perspective changes, just apes flinging shit at each other

[Anonymous No.6766143]

>>6766024
i really like SoTN and find myself playing it more. the combat is easier but its way less random and floaty. i also like how many items are in SoTN and i have fun collecting them and looking at them all.

[Anonymous No.6766386]

Super Metroid is close to being a perfect game. I have to nitpick pretty hard to find flaws

SotN is a good game with some pretty noticable shortcomings. The entire last third of the game really dips in quality, and for a game so focused on combat the bosses are all pretty pathetic and the difficulty is so low that all of the gear and items you find never really amount to anything. What's the point in having tons of weapon and ability options when bosses melt in literal seconds regardless of what you do?

[Anonymous No.6766389]

>>6766027
Stop 'tarding out

[Anonymous No.6766478]

SOTN's level and game design is not that great. half the rooms in the castle are optional or filler. some items break the game, while others are virtually useless. theres virtually no platforming. the game is has grood gameplay and atmosphere tho

Super Metroid is meticulously designed where every room and powerup has a reason. the exploration, platforming, and combat perfectly compliment eachother

SOTN = 7/10
SM = 9.5/10

[Anonymous No.6766483]

they are both cool casual games but wouldn't play them more than once honestly

[Anonymous No.6766493]

>>6766024
SotN is a combat game with exploration that doesn't hold up over multiple playthroughs.

Super Metroid is a game about checking wall/floor tiles using the most tedious method possible.

[Anonymous No.6766497]

>>6766478
Agreed. Items in Super Metroid are more directly involved with how your traverse the planet, such as the speed booster, or grappling beam. It even makes a small tutorial area for damn near every item you get, i.e. freezing enemies to make platforms after getting the ice beam, or the next room after the gravity suit being a long fall into water. Compared to SotN it's a game that takes the time to make it's game mechanics understood by the player. Largely SotN's items are just passkeys in comparison.

That said, SotN is definitely superior to Super Metroid in style, presentation, and music. I'd argue that it has some of the best music ever composed for a video game. One area that both games may be on equal footing is atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.6766515]

I don't like Symphony of the Night very much at all, the map sprawls but lacks the graceful direction of Super Metroid. The encounter design is similarly shabby, with short unchallenging flights (very unlike the thoughtful challenges of prior games) and as you level up this only gets worse. However SotN is a generous and beautifully presented game, so I understand why people love it, but it's just not very tightly designed.

[Anonymous No.6766538]

>>6766483
this

[Anonymous No.6766559]

>>6766478
>theres virtually no platforming

There is platforming all over the place, there are just no instadeath pits.

[Anonymous No.6766561]

>>6766559
that's the only platforming that matters

[Anonymous No.6766592]

>>6766561

Yet there is none of that in Super Metroid either

[Anonymous No.6766595]

Super Metroid is better imo, but that might be because every metroid after Super was worse and every 2D Castlevania after Symphony was better outside of maybe Circle of the Moon making it harder to come back to.

[Anonymous No.6766640]

Super Metroid no contest. Only turbo retards would prefer babby SOTN

[Anonymous No.6766649]

>>6766592
agree which is why I find funny that retards complain about sotn being "too easy", as if super metroid wasn't piss easy as well

[Anonymous No.6766824]

>>6766024
They're both great games. Why does one have to be "better" or "worse" than the other?

[Anonymous No.6767038]

>>6766024
As much as I love both games, I prefer Super Metroid.

[Anonymous No.6767045]

Super Metroid is an infinitely better designed game. SoTN's design philosophy was "throw as much shit in as possible" with no regard for crafting a finely tuned gameplay experience.

[Anonymous No.6767062]

>>6766092
>>6766024
Konami know how copy it right just they way do.

[Anonymous No.6767093]

>>6766649
both have easy combat. The difference is SotN focuses on combat and the lacking difficulty hurts it more. Super Metroid has the overall tighter level design and stronger exploration which is where the fun shines, and while both have a low skill floor from a platforming perspective, Metroid's skill ceiling is a lot higher and with level design that allows you to use mastery to your advantage. Being able to do a reverse boss order run for example. You can't really do much similar with SotN

[Anonymous No.6767103]

>>6766024
What debate, it's clearly Super Metroid.

[Anonymous No.6767105]

>>6767093
Mario World > SOTN > Super Metroid

[Anonymous No.6767261]

I've replayed SOTN dozens of times, while Super Metroid only once or so. I lose interest before half way. SOTN has a far greater enemy/weapon/location variety.

[Anonymous No.6767278]

>>6766092
So a better term would be a Metroid-like RPG to describe Castlevania

[Anonymous No.6767282]

Super Metroid and it's not even fucking close.

[Anonymous No.6767313]

There is no debate. SOTN is vastly superior. Both games are great. The only static you hear about the 2 games comes from disappointed Metroid fans who want more games.

[Anonymous No.6767347]

Not much difference really. If you like Sci-Fi, Giger-esque shit with mecha, then go with Super Metroid.

If you're more into gothic Anne Rice shit with swords & sorcery type stuff, then SOTN is the game for you.

I prefer SOTN myself but they're both cool games.

[Anonymous No.6767363]

>>6767347
>If you like magical hentai
>sotn
>if you like sci fi hentai
>metroid

this

[Anonymous No.6767371]

>>6767093
>muh exploration
not difficult
>Metroid's skill ceiling is a lot higher
only for memerunning, in which case any game becomes more difficult

[Anonymous No.6767372]

>>6767261

this.

Every Metroid I've played just feels limited. Just go to point A to get item A so you can go to B to get item B and so on so forth till final boss.


SOTN has more equipment variety so you have more options for customization, not to mention a so many cool enemies that allow you to farm items.

[Anonymous No.6767402]

SotN:
+ better OST
+ better aesthetics
+ more interesting plot development
+ better plus more bosses/enemies
- level design is half-assed
- basic bitch gameplay

Metroid 3:
+ far better level design
+ highly technical gameplay
- crap bosses, fewer enemies
- muffled ambient music
- dull, mundane graphics
- non-existent storytelling

[Anonymous No.6767408]

>>6767402
>better level design
convoluted

>highly technical gameplay
belmont is better

[Anonymous No.6767446]

>>6767408
>convoluted
low-iq

>belmont is better
doing mockballs in super metroid is more intricate than any character in sotn, not to mention the more advanced techniques.

https://wiki.supermetroid.run/General_Movement

[Anonymous No.6767461]

>>6767446
>doing mockballs in super metroid is more intricate

complicated = convoluted

[Anonymous No.6767463]

>>6766478
>SOTN's level and game design is not that great. half the rooms in the castle are optional
the fact that a lot of the rooms are optional is what gives the game a better sense of exploration and adventure
>Super Metroid is meticulously designed where every room and powerup has a reason.
I mean, thats tight design I guess, but I think it also makes SM feel almost over-designedwhere the developers are guiding you too much.

After progression-opening items, SotN tends to open more of the castle at a time, whereas SM tends to very sternly guide you from one zone to the next until you do what they want you to do. Sequence breaking is possible, but on the first playthroughs SM feels like a much more linear experience

[Anonymous No.6767527]

>>6767402
>SotN
>more/better bosses
What, SotN has terrible bosses. When you have a "boss" like this cunt that can just be stunhit in a corner to death with ease, having more doesn't mean much.

[Anonymous No.6767535]

>>6766024
For me it's SotN. The game was more fun, had more content and brings back better nostalgia.

Not that Super Metroid isn't great too though.

[Anonymous No.6767546]

>>6767527
i think they are way cooler in presentation than SM's. SM's bosses are kind of meh and boring and not even that great gameplay wise anyway.

[Anonymous No.6767567]

>>6767527
cool cherrypicking, now take a look at slogra+gaibon, galamoth, the cv3 trio, drac himself, granfaloon, death, countless other cool sotn boss fights compared to super metroid's which only really has ridley as the rest are gimmicks

[Anonymous No.6767575]

>>6767567
this

[Anonymous No.6767578]

Both are great games but i've always preferred Castlevania. Metroid is just far too linear and every "upgrade" was carrying more ammo.

[Anonymous No.6767587]

>>6767546
Kraid was really good presentation wise and gameplay wise, he's fucking huge and the way you hop from claw to claw while shooting missiles in his mouth was cool. Every other SM boss is terrible though yes.
>>6767567
>slogra+gaibon
The only good boss fight in the game, way to go champ.
>everything else
Terrible, you just tank through their hits and demolish them. This is a dumb hill to die on trying to argue SotN bosses are good when there's plenty of other Igavanias with good bosses to look at for good examples. How can you say something like SotN's death fight is even decent when you can look at Aria of Sorrow's death fight which is fucking great.

[Anonymous No.6767598]

>>6766824
you can pick the one you prefer you boring tit

[Anonymous No.6767662]

>>6767598
noooo you have to like everything equally or else you'll offend someone's feelingssss

[Anonymous No.6767781]

>>6767402
I think you're really reaching for negatives in Super Metroid. Not to say that it doesn't have flaws, but each negative you cite isn't really true. It feels like you're padding the list just to highlight what you consider to be superior in SotN, rather than citing actual facts.

>dull, mundane graphics
Super Metroid is objectively one of the best looking Super Nintendo games. This point only seems to exist to counterpoint it with SotN's aesthetics. Frankly, SotN should look better just by the difference in the processing power of it's platform.

>crap bosses, fewer enemies
SotN is great at making the bosses impressive set peices, as >>6767567 asserts, but these fights do not demand you to learn a method to defeat them. In SotN, it's all about just having whatever combination of items that puts as much damage onto the enemy as possible (best example of this would be being able to kill Cerberus within 10 seconds using nothing but Holy Water.) Bosses in Super Metroid each act like a puzzle, not a complicated a puzzle I would grant, but you can't just go in shooting missles hoping for the best all of the time. Some examples would be, having to climb Kraid's stomach spines and forcing him to open his mouth, or realizing that you need to force Crocomire into the acid pit, or discovering that using Super Missles on Phantoon actually makes him more difficult, or any of the variety of ways that you can kill Draygon (pic related.) Ridley is the only one where it is straight up a DPS race, and I think it's pretty telling that >>6767567 cites this as the only non-gimmick boss when it's literally a battle of attrition. If there's any boss in SM similar to SotN's, it's Mother Brain because it's a nigh-unloseable set peice.

[Anonymous No.6767802]

>>6767781
>muffled, ambient music
There is no argument that SotN has the superior OST between these games, but citing SM's soundtrack as a negative is definitely only to counterpoint that fact. The Metroid series always uses ambient music to convey atmosphere, and SM not only does it's job, it has plenty of memorable tracks, many of which have been reused in later titles.

>non-existent storytelling
This is the closest you come to properly citing a negative for SM. You don't need dialog to convey a story, particularly in an interactive visual medium like video games. What's important for a game's story is to convey what they need to to effectively give the information needed by the player. SM's story is much simpler than SotN's, so it doesn't take more than a few visual cues to pull it off. If SM's story were about Samus's character development, then it would have failed to tell that in a meaningful way. Later titles like Fusion and Other M were about developing her character, for better or worse, which is why they botherd to take the time. My point is that for the story they wanted to convey in SM, they did all that they really needed to. SotN sets out to tell a meatier story than SM's, and naturally needs more dialogs to tell it properly.

[Anonymous No.6767807]

This is a bait thread. Comparing apples with oranges.

[Anonymous No.6767864]

The issue I've always had with Super Metroid is they controls, they feels sluggish and this hits you hard in the beginning of the game when you are forced to evacuate under time pressure jumping on tiny moving platforms, and it doesn't get any better from there. And it's not only a design issue but also actual slowdowns and unresponsiveness, this game is prime candidate for a SA-1 patch.

As far as 2D Metroid goes, I find Zero Mission to be the best, and for 3D Prime 1 hands down is the best, and I say this as a staunch 2D-supremacist, probably in the ENTIRE franchise!

>>6767807
>This is a bait thread. Comparing apples with oranges

This man gets it.

[Anonymous No.6767870]

>>6766024
Take that shit debate back to >>>/a/catalog and fucking leave.

[Anonymous No.6767892]

>>6767402
>>6767802
The main story in SOTN is told through tedious dialogue scenes with bad voice acting and is so boring the developers stopped caring about it half way through the game before rushing into a pretty anticlimactic final boss.

I do like the environments though and all the little subtle callbacks to older games, like that one fight against the three other CV3 playable characters and random unique background details.

I prefer SM's minimalist approach it takes throughout, but that's just a matter of taste.

[Anonymous No.6767906]

>>6767892
>before rushing into a pretty anticlimactic final boss.
Not as lame as Super Metroid's at least, which might as well have just been a cutscene.

[Anonymous No.6767924]

>>6767802
puzzly bosses is not inherently a positive, in fact its often a negative since it makes the fights feel limited, gimmicky and boring

[Anonymous No.6767928]

I don't know how people can shit on the SM soundtrack, its fucking fantastic

https://youtu.be/Q9ieYLHc1fQ

[Anonymous No.6767948]

>>6767928
*snores*

*plays https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axnhu4wMKe4 to wake up*

[Anonymous No.6767981]

>>6767906
There's literally no personality to the final dracula fight in SOTN, you can barely even notice it's him between the giant claws and extra heads, especially when the attacks start clogging up the screen even more and making the game generally lag straight to hell.

The gameplay mechanics by that point are also incredibly easy to abuse between the bloated abilities and RPG mechanics.

The mother brain fight at least has something going on story wise, even if it is in a way a reference to the final fight in the movie Aliens.

I know that the fight is pretty trivial with even half of the max energy tanks and if you have the plasma beam, but at least it feels like an actual character I'm fighting.

[Anonymous No.6767996]

Super Metroid is better designed, but SotN is more fun to play

[Anonymous No.6768027]

>>6767996
>SotN is more fun to play
Disagree, SM has much funner gameplay.

[Anonymous No.6768097]

>>6766092
I wish I could delete SOTN from history so we could get more proper Metroid-like titles that focus on exploration, movement, and mastering your tools instead of focusing on shitty melee combat and RPG grinding.

[Anonymous No.6768110]

>>6768097
>Scripted crap
>padding
>awful gameplay

Nintendrone

[Anonymous No.6768135]

>>6768110
>>Scripted crap
>>padding
>>awful gameplay
Yes, exactly. Glad you agree.

[Anonymous No.6768157]

>>6768097
You never have to grind in SOTN though. And SM has grinding to recover health & rockets anyways.

[Anonymous No.6768281]

>>6768157
Perhaps that is the one thing that puts SotN over. Save points restoring health. For the lazy man, its great. Sure makes speed runs more boring though

[Anonymous No.6768287]

>>6768281
But real speedrunners don't even go to the save points when they run SotN.

[Anonymous No.6768302]

>>6768287
Was thinking more of speed run races or showcases where reset isnt an option. In those cases a runner can try to waste time to regain health slowly and leave you on the edge of your seat on drop luck in SM, but in SotN they just pop in a save room and gain it all

[Anonymous No.6768531]

>>6766027
>RICHTER MODE > MARIA MODE
I don't get this. The game is still shit. There is no hell platform, nothing like classicvania and to make it worse the game was clearly made to be played as Alucard.

[Anonymous No.6768539]

>>6766493
>>Super Metroid is a game about checking wall/floor tiles
>There is a bomb that blows up everything, including secret passages
>There is a item that pretty much shows secret passages
I don't get your post, anon.

[Anonymous No.6768815]

>>6768097
why the fuck is everyone saying metroid has MORE exploration than SotN? It clearly does not because SotN opens up more of the castle at a time, rather quickly, and theres more optional areas. If anything it is Metroid that is the much more gated, linear game, trapping you in areas until you get the item to progress to the next zone unless you pull off some sequence breaks

I love the game, but I don't understand why everyone says it has such great exploration, it feels practically sequential going from zone to zone

[Anonymous No.6769206]

>>6768815
You can literally play the game backwards

[Anonymous No.6769221]

>>6769206
yes with autistic sequence breaking you find out after several playthroughs. sequence breaking does not mean the game is non-linear.

[Anonymous No.6769278]

>>6769221
the sequence breaking was part of the game's original design, baka.

[Anonymous No.6769347]

>>6768097
/thread