/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.4817601]

How does /vr/ feel about shaders?

[Anonymous No.4817603]

They’re for disgusting faggots.

[Anonymous No.4817608]

I like them.
Might not be 100 percent accurate but when you're only option is a big LCD screen, it's the best way to play the games the way they looked when they originally came out.

[Anonymous No.4817615]

I usually play with them on. Enhances the experience, blends the harsh pixels a bit.

[Anonymous No.4817619]

>>4817601
What's going on there?

[Anonymous No.4817621]

>>4817619
Are your arrows backwards or something?

[Anonymous No.4817626]

>>4817621
look at the "shadowmask" and the direction it flows relative to the curvature of the tube

[Anonymous No.4817634]

>>4817615
That is so dark compared to what it looks like on a TV.

[Anonymous No.4817638]

>>4817634
The filter has gamma boost, but also increased contrast which might make that level seem darker because of the harsh shadows. It looks nicer in motion.

[Anonymous No.4817642]

>>4817638
I would have to see it in motion. Although I much prefer the soft look of a CRT TV, when I play on PC emulators, I generally just do sharp pixels because the way filters look is distracting.

[Anonymous No.4817779]

what's the point of the dot matrix pixels?

[Anonymous No.4817782]

>>4817601
I generally don't use them. CRT filters are a meme, just play on a CRT or don't use filters.

[Anonymous No.4817790]

>>4817601
shaders + RunAhead is the best way to play

Pixels are point samples, not squares.

[Anonymous No.4817793]

>>4817782
If it's connected to a CRT with anything better than composite, shaders are needed for the pixel art to display as intended. Almost all of the distortion is from the composite video signaling, not the tube.

[Anonymous No.4817809]

im a big fan of the crt effect, regular scan lines usually look like shit

[Anonymous No.4817814]

>>4817601
I use a simple crt shader (but not this one, which looks like ass).
No curvature, though. That's not nostalgic when you grew up with a master race Trinitron (sorry, poorfags).

>>4817626
Nice catch. Piss poor shader.

[Anonymous No.4817949]

>>4817601
How the fuck am I supposed to take you seriously when the HUD sprite on the far left is completely different to the others? Just off yourself in a locked closet, faggot!

[Anonymous No.4818007]

I play it the way the developers intended, with square pixels.

[Anonymous No.4818112]

>>4817601
How do these shaders are handling color space?

Some monitors cover 100% PAL and 100% NTSC colors.

Are they color correcting stuff into NTSC colors?

I know some shaders emulate the NTSC signal very well, while other emulate Shadowmask or other kind of grids...

But the color space is really important too.

[Anonymous No.4818115]

>>4818112
Also, OLED TVs are covring true blacks...

The only thing lacking compared to CRT TVs would be the response time, but they're getting there, with 7 ms already.

But I don't think there's a 7ms, 100% NTSC color gamut with OLED screen yet.

But in a few years I believe we'll be able to play zapper games on LCD screens.

[Anonymous No.4818135]

i like them

[Anonymous No.4818382]

>>4818115
Only seven milliseconds?
That new runahead feature can take a whole 16 or 33 off most games. I've been playing with it, works great.

[Anonymous No.4818386]

Is there a guide somewhere that explains visual stuff? Like not even just retro but in general?

[Anonymous No.4818394]

>>4818386
The emulation wiki has some articles about filters/shaders.

[Anonymous No.4818417]

>>4817790
stop posting this

[Anonymous No.4818420]

>>4818417
k

[Anonymous No.4818428]

>>4818420
Fuck off. You keep posting this same shit thinking it's funny

[Anonymous No.4818432]

>>4818428
okay sweetie :-)

[Anonymous No.4818439]

>>4817601
Are terrible, all of them.

[Anonymous No.4818621]

>>4817601

I like a light CRT one.
Scanlines make the games look better.

[Anonymous No.4818656]

>>4818420
Oh man, I sure do love blurring my entire game for 1 transparency effect.

[Anonymous No.4818682]

>>4818656
The entire screen gets benefited by "blurring", also, the color gamut must change to fir the NTSC one.

People are overlooking that.

[Anonymous No.4818685]

>>4818682
>the color gamut must change to fir the NTSC one.
It 'must' change? Will the game explode if it doesn't?

[Anonymous No.4818774]

>>4818656
Sonic himself looks better with horizontal blur. His quills aren't meant to be staircases.

[Anonymous No.4818775]

>>4817601
Curvature is intense faggotry. The shaders are cool with me other than that, really. I use a tweaked Royale preset pretty often.

[Anonymous No.4818902]

>>4817601
Anything beyond a light scanline or bilinear filter just looks tacky to me.

[Anonymous No.4818991]

Shaders can look pretty good when used right.

[Anonymous No.4819000]

>>4818685
You can destroy a screen by forcing it to do things it isn't capable of.

[Anonymous No.4819248]

>>4818991
And what shader is that?

[Anonymous No.4819256]

>>4818991
I actually like this one.

[Anonymous No.4819258]

>>4818991
Best game ever right there!

[Anonymous No.4819267]

>>4817601
They are excellent, and it is only a matter of time before more people realize you can combine shaders with high resolution CRT monitors and get an image which is nearly identical to the fancy 15khz production monitors like the Sony PVMs.

>>4817603
You don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.4819338]

>>4818991
Name of shader in pic?

[Anonymous No.4819413]

>>4818991
Shader?

[Anonymous No.4819423]

>>4818991

I know this has a lot of replies, but I'm also requesting just in case you're lazy and need one more person asking.

[Anonymous No.4819473]

>>4819248
>And what shader is that?

Combination of CRT- Goem with NTSC-320px. Look at image for specific settings.

[Anonymous No.4819493]

>>4817601
before people starting arguing about these as a hobby they were a novelty

that being said, they're pretty goddamn ugly

[Anonymous No.4819559]

>>4819473
Bump just so people see it.

[babbage's gramps !RATGzMALLY No.4819562]

In building my dedicated emulation PC for installation in a cab with a dedicated CRT, I ended up employing some shaders for use on handheld titles. Looks pretty okay.

[Anonymous No.4819648]

>>4819473

Bumping one more time, just because so many people were asking. I have a thing called a job, I was at work. couldn't reply.

[Anonymous No.4819661]

>>4817793

[Anonymous No.4819664]

>>4819661
I used to play Worms 2 with autistic british ninja ropers.

[Anonymous No.4819709]

>>4819473

[Anonymous No.4819718]

>>4819473

[Anonymous No.4819727]

>>4819473

[Anonymous No.4819734]

[Anonymous No.4819813]

[Anonymous No.4819815]

>>4819813
Show me your waterfall.

[Anonymous No.4819823]

[Anonymous No.4819850]

>>4818685
>>4819000
samefag

yes, you must use NTSC, with a composite, so the colors will be correct when mixed with dithering.

If you don't, the colors will be all over the place.

[Anonymous No.4819854]

>>4819718
>>4819709
>>4819727
>>4819734
>>4819813

I think it's lacking a little bit of bloom.

I use the NTSC-240px. It has bloom. It's probably the best one there is.

I'm thinking about buying this monitor: https://www.asus.com/us/Commercial-Monitors/PA249Q/

But I'm not sure if the shader is optimized for 100% NTSC color gamut.

This monitors cover 120% of NTSC, so I'm pretty sure it'll emulate the colors perfectly.

[Anonymous No.4819858]

>>4819854
>NTSC-240px
I meant 256px*

crt-royale-ntsc-256px-composite.cgp

[Anonymous No.4819859]

>>4819858
>>4819854
>NTSC-240px
I meant 256px*

crt-royale-ntsc-256px-composite.cgp

But my prefered one is crtglow_gauss_ntsc_3phase.cgp

[Anonymous No.4819968]

>>4817601
Only retarded children that don't own a crt use them.

[Anonymous No.4819982]

>>4818115
What do you think of Retroarch's run frames ahead latency option?

[Anonymous No.4820070]

>>4819854
If this is for just *playing* old games, you should be prioritizing speed since they're designed for lagless CRTs. How many frames of lag does that add? If I split a window between my high refresh rate gamer TN and color calibrated IPS and move it up and down, the IPS lags behind noticeably.

You may want at least 1440p for some CRT shaders.

[Anonymous No.4820074]

>>4819968
Why would you still own a crt? Hoarding is a mental disorder. Get help.

[Anonymous No.4820087]

>>4819968
t. brainlet boomer who couldn't figure out setting it up

Some shaders are specifically for outputting *cleanly* to a CRT. When a Genesis is connected with anything better than composite video, there's checkerboards. The tube has nothing to do with the horizontal blur exploited there. The trick works the same on an LCD connected by composite video.

[Anonymous No.4820360]

>>4820070
Yeah... you're right.

I think it'll take a few years before we've got "a perfect monitor" for playing NTSC games.

Most of them cover about 90% of the color gamut. They normally follow the Adobe RGB standard.

The ideal situation would be a 7/8ms, 4k, OLED with NTSC color gamut support...

Only then you'd be able to emulate a CRT without feeling any difference.

>>4819982
I think it's great. But I didn't test it very much. But it can't be bad, right?

[Anonymous No.4820498]

>>4819854
>I think it's lacking a little bit of bloom.
>I use the NTSC-240px. It has bloom. It's probably the best one there is.

It looks fine on my monitor, but then again, I do generally have my monitor settings set to a higher gamma. So maybe those screenshots don;t look so good on other peoples monitors. But feel free to mess around with the settings in the image that I posted. You can adjust the bloom there.

I also generally find that ntsc-320 looks better for some consoles like the Sega Genesis, Sega Master System, Sega Saturn, 3DO. While the NTSC-256 setting generally looks better for SNES, NES, and even the Playstation.

[Anonymous No.4820502]

The only time filters are okay is when trying to replicate something that was designed with old tech in mind, like the waterfalls in >>4817790

[Anonymous No.4820510]

>>4819854

Here's another screenshot of Sonic 1 with the luminosity turned up by a couple notches...

[Anonymous No.4820534]

>>4820510

Turned up the CRT gamma a little higher.

[Anonymous No.4820535]

Sonic 2 with the same settings.

[Anonymous No.4820543]

bilinear looks terrible with emulators

[Anonymous No.4820546]

>>4817601
I only use a bilinear sharpening one in RA (softeststep) combined with a dithering filter with certain games that benefit from it. There is no good CRT filter.

[Anonymous No.4820563]

>>4820535

One more, Gex title screen for the 3DO version. I toned down the goem sharpness a bit.

[Anonymous No.4820769]

>>4820534
It looks great.

[Anonymous No.4821496]

lookin' good

[Anonymous No.4821501]

>>4821496

[Anonymous No.4821506]

>>4821501

[Anonymous No.4821513]

>>4821506

[Anonymous No.4821515]

>>4821506

is this project 64 or a different emulator? I don't think p64 has shaders

[Anonymous No.4821528]

>>4817601
I like my pixels extra crispy

[Anonymous No.4821531]

>>4821515
it's retroarch's port of mupen64plus

[Anonymous No.4821543]

the only way to recreate my childhood gaming experience

[Anonymous No.4821592]

CRT Shaders on a PC CRT monitor.

[Anonymous No.4821593]

[Anonymous No.4821595]

>>4819473
Thanks for the tip, anon.

[Anonymous No.4821604]

Photos don't do it justice. In practice it looks flawless. I can't think of any reason now to not do this.

[Anonymous No.4821993]

>>4821604
Looks good!

[Anonymous No.4822023]

>>4821592
>CRT Shaders on a PC CRT monitor

[Anonymous No.4822132]

>>4822023
I don't know why people act like such retards when this concept is brought up. It's completely fine.

[Anonymous No.4822142]

>>4822132
because it's retarded and redundant

[Anonymous No.4822160]

>>4817626
it's moiré due to the downsampled image.

[Anonymous No.4822265]

I use HLSL for mame. I got the settings tweaked as close as possible to a real CRT. Everything is fine and dandy. The only problem is no flat panel display matches the gorgeous luminosity of my crt arcade monitor. Shaders are fun but its not the real thing.

>>4821593
That looks pretty cool. A little dark maybe.

[Anonymous No.4822281]

[Anonymous No.4822287]

[Anonymous No.4822328]

>>4822287
What game is that? Why are Looney Tunes in a beat-em-up?

[Anonymous No.4822332]

>>4822328
It's a rom hack for Streets of Rage 2.

[Anonymous No.4822338]

>>4817790
what cores does runahead work with on a Pi3? Is it just NES and GB?

[Anonymous No.4822353]

>>4822338
idk, it seems to work fine on my Galaxy S6. How does that compare to a Pi3?

Remember to not count the first frame advance as a lag frame. If the action started there, it would be zero frames of lag.

[Anonymous No.4822358]

>>4822353
with Genesis Plus GX and Blargg's

[Anonymous No.4822364]

>>4822142
No, it isn't. You don't know what you're talking about. But keep on shitposting about a subject you have no actual experience with.

[Anonymous No.4822369]

>>4822281
>>4822287
What shaders are these?

[Anonymous No.4822371]

>>4821543
WHat shader is this?

[Anonymous No.4822448]

>>4822369
tvout-tweaks + fakelottes with some adjusts.

[Anonymous No.4822807]

>>4822448
Some more of it.

[Anonymous No.4822809]

>>4822807

[Anonymous No.4823857]

>>4822809
ops, wrong shader on that one, this is the correct.

[Anonymous No.4823893]

>>4822132

It's literally the best of both worlds to use a PC CRT, you can dial up the PQ up to PVM-tier quality and all the way down to simulate RF-unit quality. It's retarded people spend hundreds when they can go find a junko monitor for $10 and get the same effect.

[Anonymous No.4823935]

>>4823893
>you can dial up the PQ up to PVM-tier quality and all the way down to simulate RF-unit quality
It seems it's taking a while for the community to realize this is true. I think there's a few reasons for this

1. the chase for "accuracy" above all else
2. the pleasing aesthetic of the PVM and other pro monitors physical design
3. the notion that pure, native RGB will look mind-blowingly better than everything else
4. the work that goes into setting up a true 15khz RGB monitor and source

I know I went through all of that and I was slow to accept that through the use of shaders you can reach a point that is 99% equal to what you see with a real 15khz monitor, and in some ways actually is better than the real thing. PC CRT monitors usually have very good geometry, and a wider variety of control over the image on the hardware level. And when you combine this with shader parameters you get even more control.

With a high res PC monitor it is possible to get an image which is far more uniform than what you would actually see on a low res monitor. Unless you decide to make in non-uniform.

Also: a hell of a lot easier to set up. No need to fuck around with RGB modding or CRT_Emudriver. Any random decent-tier GPU and a decent PC CRT monitor will have excellent results.

It almost feels like cheating. Makes me feel a bit silly to have spent years chasing after the dream of 240p RGB when I see what my old PC monitors could have been doing all along.

[Anonymous No.4823961]

>>4823935
Now you got me interested. What is the minimum resolution for a CRT monitor to effectively support CRT shaders?

Are there any recommended brands or manufacturers, or will any model do?

[Anonymous No.4823991]

>>4823961
I would say you want at least 1024x768. 640x480 will have too noticeably hardware scanlines mixing in with what you're trying to do with the shaders. If at all possible you want at least 1280x960, which is easily doable with just about any random old PC CRT made in the late 90s or newer.

I use 1600x1200. My monitor can do 2048x1536, but at that resolution you're running up against pitch of the monitor's limits, so there's no real reason to go that high. I would say 1600x1200 is the sweet spot.

[Anonymous No.4824036]

>>4823991
>too noticeably hardware scanlines mixing in
> you're running up against pitch of the monitor's limits
Ugh. That was some shitty writing. Let me try again.

If you use too low of a resolution when you're doing this you'll see the real scanlines in the image mixing in with the software scanlines. You don't want that. So you want to use as high of a resolution as possible to make the real scanlines as thin and faint as possible. Above 1280x960 the real scanlines will be basically invisible.

The pitch of the monitor is the distance between phosphors, and even though a monitor may support high resolutions if the pitch isn't fine enough you won't be able to see any more detail. So the visual difference between 1600x1200 and 2048x1536 on a 19" monitor with a dot pitch of .25mm is next to nothing.

[Anonymous No.4824259]

>>4824036
Thank you, that was very informative. Is there any point in seeking out specific brands or models, like Samsung Syncmasters or Sony Trinitrons?

[Anonymous No.4824267]

>>4821604
I used to do that too with my CRT monitor but it died some weeks ago and now I can't find another one in my third world shithole

[Anonymous No.4824272]

>>4821604
Is there any ghosting?

[Anonymous No.4824468]

>>4824259
Syncmasters and Trinitrons are going to be very good choices, but any decent PC CRT from the late 90s onward will be fine. Just stay away from totally no-name brands that look and feel cheap. If you come across anything from a major computer vendor like Dell or Gateway those will be good monitors. Viewsonic is also a very, very good brand in the USA.

If you find anything by Mitsubishi or NEC those are auto-buys, of course.

[Anonymous No.4824471]

>>4824272
Zero additional ghosting. You will have the natural phosphor trails of a CRT when sprites are moving against a black background, but that is something you get in native resolution too. Compared to an LCD it is night and day. Scrolling is absolutely rock solid, no ghosting.

[Anonymous No.4824515]

>>4817601
Filters are gross, if you want a crt look then get a crt display.
And I fucking hate that all Neo Geo games on the Switch have fucking bilinear filters enabled by default.

[Anonymous No.4824810]

>>4821604
Holy shit, I never noticed that the fireball has Ryu's hands imprint.

[Anonymous No.4824929]

>>4817790
Left looks good and right looks like dogshit. Stop.

[Anonymous No.4824937]

>>4824929
You do you.

[Anonymous No.4826687]

>>4817601
I love it Raw.

[Anonymous No.4827080]

>>4823961
I'd say 1600x1200 minimum, which is 5x of 240p. 4x isn't quite enough to simulate raster scans correctly.

Otherwise you're probably better off with the 480p with black lines method.

[Anonymous No.4827107]

Bear in mind there's not just CRT shaders, but also shaders that simulate the look of handheld LCD screens.

There's also shaders that modify colors to apply a different color profile, because not everything was meant to be seen with regular RGB color.

And even if you like raw sharp pixels, it's better to use a shader that applies anti-aliased nearest neighbor scaling so that non-integer scale factors or non-square pixel aspect ratios don't fuck with pixel sizes.

[Anonymous No.4827118]

Anyone who uses warped geometry is a terrible person who never calibrated their display.

[Anonymous No.4827128]

>>4827118
https://my.mixtape.moe/chlqvc.mp4

[Anonymous No.4827131]

>>4827118
>lets take the one advantage LCDs have and fuck it up

[Anonymous No.4827140]

>>4823857
composite doesn't look that blurry on a crt, looks more like an old busted crt

[Anonymous No.4827157]

>>4827118
holy shit this, i like using shaders but anyone who uses that is a tryhard

[Anonymous No.4827209]

>>4819815
look behind/under the ring nintenboy

[Anonymous No.4827236]

I'm indifferent to a non-default option in a video game

[Anonymous No.4827270]

>>4817601

Shaders are nice

[Anonymous No.4827316]

>>4824036
Huh, I thought that was pretty clear, then again I use a CRT Monitor

[Anonymous No.4828392]

is crt hyllian good? i use it and i can't even decide in comparison to the others, keep in mind i don't care about accuracy, just how the picture looks

[Anonymous No.4828791]

>>4821496
damn, that looks almost like my neighbors big ass flat screen CRT from back in the day. It was a hand me down wit lots of color bleed but it was the biggest TV any of us had.

[Anonymous No.4828847]

>>4817601
Not a fan of the built-in shaders, but some fan shaders are really good.

[Anonymous No.4829616]

>>4827140
I've tried it with less blur but I think it looks better blurred, just my preference.

[Anonymous No.4829881]

>>4827118

Get out poser child, nobody calibrated consumer television sets in the early 90's, only autistic 20 year olds in the current year do that shit

[Anonymous No.4830057]

>>4829881
Get out poser child, most consumer television sets had decent geometry set from the factory in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.4830105]

>>4817790
>>4818682
>>4819850

They hated him because he spoke the truth.

>>4818417
>>4818428
>>4818656
>>4820502
>>4824929


These threads are full of babies who demand that games look like they do on emulators because they weren't even alive when these games came out.

There's nothing wrong with playing without filters, but it's ridiculous to pretend that these games were designed with super-sharp modern displays or pro monitors in mind, or that your modern tastes are objectively better than the way most people (including many devs) played them for decades.

[Anonymous No.4830339]

>>4817790
pixels are not quite point samples, particularly in /vr/-era games where they are definitely discrete points meant to be represented as such, considering they were placed and tweaked by hand, rather than sampled from a source image (where interpolation is guaranteed to be a better fit)
on a crt, you have generally hard cut-offs in the y-axis (per-line), which aren't captured at all by bilinear, and softer transitions on the x-axis that still aren't as fugly as bilinear interpolation

[Anonymous No.4832059]

>>4830105
>but it's ridiculous to pretend that these games were designed with super-sharp modern displays
>b-b-b-but muh pixel boxart mareee-oh

[Anonymous No.4832067]

>>4824937
> less than four colors.png
> amount of unique colours in png: 2759
what is this retardation?

[Anonymous No.4832074]

>>4817601
>How does /vr/ feel about shaders?
they're ridiculous and look fucking awful. raw via emulation, real machive via CRT or.. just GTFO.

>>4830057
> be you
> born after 2000
> most consumer sets
> decent geometry in the 90s

is today international make shit up as you go day? i wish someone had told me about it. no, chump. they were far from decent. geometry could vary wildly from set to set, from manufacturer to manufacturer.

[Anonymous No.4832075]

>>4817619
whoever made that filter was a retard. that's just hilariously bad.

[Anonymous No.4832078]

>>4822160
put on your 2 inch thick reading glasses for fucks sake. that isn't a moire pattern.

[Anonymous No.4832143]

Just like mom used to make

[Anonymous No.4833252]

>>4817790
I agree with this except for gameboy and nes. I remember when drawing nes or gameboy characters I drew them pixel by pixel and my stupid kidbrain was suprised that I could copy them 1 to 1 with my hand

[Anonymous No.4835359]

point sampling for absolutely anything with textures at or smaller than 64x64

[Anonymous No.4835453]

>>4821528
Fucking shit. I almost got stroke from that pic.

[Anonymous No.4835493]

[Anonymous No.4835731]

>>4817601
I'm a grown adult with a family so I don't really give a shit about bitter millennial virgins screeching in red-faced impotent fury that they hate a thing.

[Anonymous No.4835735]

[Anonymous No.4835738]

[Anonymous No.4835801]

>>4835493
what are you getting at with this picture?

[Anonymous No.4836462]

>>4817601
nearest for the eternity. If you want a crt feel just use nearest on a vga crt