/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9997634]

Imagine my surprise when, 20 years later, I learned that this game was made in japan, and by exclusively asians. I thought this was a classic joint by the same kind of people who made dungeons and dragons or some such. I suppose no one is immune to honorable knights and fearsome castles.

[Anonymous No.9997641]

>>9997634
You should probably look into the history and tradition of Japanese dungeon crawlers if you find that interesting or surprising.

[Anonymous No.9997654]

>>9997641
I suppose I don't have too much knowledge of the gaming phenomena that takes place in japan. I know the stuff I don't like, the glitz and the glam of spiky haired boomerang wielders, but this was a wholly authentic western style endeavor for child me.

[Anonymous No.9997667]

>>9997654
There's a whole heap of games for you to go out and find now, then.

[Anonymous No.9999276]

>>9997634
>Imagine my surprise when, 20 years later, I learned that I'm an ignorant racist
Yikes! That humblebrag virtuesignal didn't quite turn out how you'd planned.

[Anonymous No.9999304]

outside of games set in feudal japan, there are virtually no japanese games that arent inspired by europeans

[Anonymous No.9999538]

>>9997634
Eh, you can tell it was made with Japanese sensibilities if you've played many JPN games at all. The music is a dead giveaway, it would be a lot more generic and subdued if it was made by Westerners.

[Anonymous No.9999546]

>>9999276
Not about race, it's a cultural difference

[Anonymous No.9999679]

>>9999538
>it would be a lot more generic and subdued if it was made by Westerners.
not always

[Anonymous No.9999745]

>>9999679
>guy known for making music for Japanese-styled games

[Anonymous No.9999752]

Japan love(d) Wizardry and dungeon crawlers

You should try Echo Night by the same devs, then it becomes more evident that they are Japanese with the whole friendly ghost / evil ghost theme.

[Anonymous No.9999807]

I knew it was Japanese going in, but upon playing the series i picked up a very different vibe than Western RPG's. Very desolate and alien atmosphere, there's not much levity or coziness like Western games, and none of the classic Tolkien / D&D fantasy monsters. And it's not just the PS1 limitations (like the untextured face models), because they continued in the same creepy style in the PS2 game.

[Anonymous No.10000057]

>>9997634
Yeah FromSoft always took a lot of inspiration from sword & sorcery crpgs. You might say they spent almost 30 years trying to perfect the fusion between roleplaying and 3d action-adventure games.
Then brainlets go on to cite Zelda as a major inspiration for Dark Souls because it has lock-on or some shit.
>>9999807
NPCs are definitely few and far between for FromSoft games, although I'm not sure I'd consider that a distinctly Japanese design choice.

[Anonymous No.10000278]

>>9999745
>Japanese-styled games
He's a western composer, who works on Western games

[Anonymous No.10000284]

>>9999679
>refutes Wagner
Rareware was special but fair enough

[Anonymous No.10002127]

>>9999546
>Not about race, it's a cultural difference
Whatever makes you feel better about your racist stereotypes

[Anonymous No.10002136]

>>10000057
>Then brainlets go on to cite Zelda as a major inspiration for Dark Souls because it has lock-on or some shit.
The brainlet thing is to diminish the fact that OOT was a clear inspiration for Souls games, in terms of gameplay.
You said it yourself, they fuse classic roleplaying with 3D action-adventure video games, and OOT is a good example of the later.
>nooo but I hate zelda, nintendo, etc!
Not really an argument.
Anyway, are Souls stuff still popular in 2023? Last one I played was the first Dark Souls, which I didn't like as much as Demon's.

[Anonymous No.10002137]

>>9999276
>>10002127

[Anonymous No.10002192]

>>10002136
You didn't actually argue anything.
I offered up lock-on (which itself is debatable because it works differently from OOT), give me one example of something that was certainly inspired by Zelda, and not by FromSoft's litany of previous action/action-adventure games.

[Anonymous No.10002194]

>lock-on

Mega Man Legends

[Anonymous No.10002198]

>>10002192
IMO the lock-on isn't even the most noticeable aspect Souls borrowed from OOT (although I don't think it's that different, in both you can circle around enemies, and you can switch targets seamlessly).
For me the most obvious aspect is how rolling is implemented and mixed in with the sword/shield play. Also different inputs for different ways of sword attacks. OOT is more flashy overall (backflips, faster in general), but I think it's hard to argue OOT was not an inspiration for Souls. Not the ONLY inspiration, but to deny it would be kind of weird, like you have to really hate Zelda and Nintendo to want to diminish or deny its role as a Souls inspiration.

[Anonymous No.10002208]

>>10002194
You stay in place when you lock-on on Legends, and you can't switch targets on the fly.
This is a very old discussion, but while OOT didn't invent lock-on, it did invent the "circle around enemies while on lock-on, and change targets as you please", that later 3D action titles like DMC or Souls used.
Tomb Raider and Legends have a different, more archaic form of lock-on/auto aim, centered around shooting ammo, not melee swordplay. The OOT Z-target was inspired by a kabuki play where people fought each other while tied with a rope to each other, so one of them would circle around the rival using the rope. The Z-target is like that, but with an "invisible rope" so to speak. And that is exactly how the lock on in Souls works, too.

[Anonymous No.10002229]

>>9997634
japs loved dnd and wizardry

[Anonymous No.10002251]

>>9997634
Did you know that this version of King's Field is actually King's Field 2? Always confusing when discussing the US and JP releases.

[Anonymous No.10002270]

>>10002136
Elden Ring was one of the biggest selling games of the year, and it's basically a Souls game.

[Anonymous No.10002297]

>>9997634

[Anonymous No.10002351]

>>10002198
>but I think it's hard to argue OOT was not an inspiration for Souls.
I never said that. My argument from the start is that people are quick to attribute to OOT what could more reasonably be other games or just Fromsoft's decade+ experience making action/adventure games at that point.
Your post is a good example of this. You list off a handful of mechanics from both games that work almost completely differently, and attribute it to Zelda because it reminds you of OOT. As soon as these notions are subject to scrutiny, your persecution complex kicks in, and you cry of Nintendo hating or diminishing your favorite game's role.
Souls has a completely different approach to weapon moves, and I don't see how you can draw the comparison without just giving Zelda ownership of the concept entirely.
Same with sword & shield stuff. You couldn't even move & block in the older 3D Zeldas. Isn't this the type of thing that immediately gets a game ejected from the conversation, like Megaman Legends?

[Anonymous No.10002362]

Really? I remember hearing about them and since there was a long wait for the localization, I think it was almost a year between the Japanese and American release of the 2nd game, I wound up importing them.

[Anonymous No.10002364]

>>10002229
>>9999752
What's most wild to me about this is that Wizardry in the west is this goofy ass weird scifi with space alien wizards and shit and Jap Wizardry is so serious it wraps around to being goofy again.

[Anonymous No.10002407]

>>10002351
>I never said that
Well, your implication seemed like it
>Then brainlets go on to cite Zelda as a major inspiration for Dark Souls because it has lock-on or some shit.
Your use of "brainlet" denotes you have some kind of bias against OOT, so it's easy to jump into that conclusion. OOT is not even my favorite game, but I think it's easy to see why people are quick to compare both games.
>You list off a handful of mechanics from both games that work almost completely differently
"almost completely different"? I guess that's subjective, I think they're almost identical, of course not 100% identical, but very similar, especially because you probably can't name another game before OOT that has the same kind of circular lock-on w/ enemy toggle and different inputs for swordplay (like frontal stab, jump slash, etc) and the rolling mechanic. Can you cite another game like this?
You claim From have been cooking this mechanic for 30 years, but Demon's Souls was really the first of their games to implement 3rd person action, similar to OOT. KF is really, really different with only lore/atmosphere and the CRPG elements being similar to Souls.
>Same with sword & shield stuff. You couldn't even move & block in the older 3D Zeldas
I see you've not played Zelda, you can move while using the shield - as long as you're Z-targeting.
>like Megaman Legends?
In Legends, you can't move while lock-on aiming, unless you're strafing, which uses a sort of auto aim (and it depends on your upgrades and stats, how accurate Mega Man's shooting is, but it doesn't work like OOT/Souls targeting).
Anyway, you seem to concede that OOT is indeed an influence on Souls, you just hate that people are "quick" to note it.

[Anonymous No.10002431]

>>9999276
>cultural differences don't exist, racist! oof! yikes! this ain't it chief! do better ya'll! educate yourself!
fuck off back to pronounspace

[Anonymous No.10002436]

>>10002127
Quick experiment, anon. Do Japanese people speak Japanese? Or is that also just a racist stereotype?

[Anonymous No.10002497]

>>9999276
>>10002127
this is your brain on twitter

[Anonymous No.10002518]

>>10002407
>Demon's Souls was really the first of their games to implement 3rd person action
If you don't know what Armored Core or Otogi is then you're the exact type of retard I pinned you as in the previous post. You're not even aware of half of Fromsoft's lineup yet you pretend like you were in the room with them when they were cooking up Demon Souls.
>I guess that's subjective
It's not subjective. People generally don't even want to compare the games side-to-side because it's apples to oranges.
>Can you cite another game like this?
Again, I wouldn't even cite a Souls game. You create a false dilemma in which any game with something resembling Z-targeting also must've drawn all it's other mechanics from OOT, even if it's something mundane like swinging a sword or raising a shield. You completely sidestepped my point about how Souls had a different approach to weapon movesets because of some bare bones visual indicators.
>you can move while using the shield - as long as you're Z-targeting
A lot of the shield's functionality is locked behind crouching, Z-targeting itself doesn't accomplish much in terms of blocking.

[Anonymous No.10002519]

>>10002407
>t. Nintentroon
What is it with troons and their obsession with Zelda, especially Ocarina?

[Anonymous No.10002531]

>>9999276
nobody likes you
not just here but i mean everwhere. it must actually be exhausting being this facetious and insufferable.

[Anonymous No.10002543]

Come to think of it, even the title "King's Field" is distinctly Japanese, as it doesn't make a lot of sense and comes off as a mild sort of Engrish naming convention. Especially since fields don't feature prominently in the game world's environment, and in fact it takes place in an elaborate and massive underground complex of tombs. I assume they were intending something more like King's "Realm" or "Dominion".

[Anonymous No.10002578]

>>10002407
gta3 has lock on, literally zelda clone

[Anonymous No.10002635]

>>10002543
Nah I’m an interview they said that their ceo was in England and saw a golf club named “kings field” and that’s what they decided to use

[Anonymous No.10002639]

>>10002297
from software deserves recognition for being pioneers in early 3D game design. considering they didn't even start with 2D graphics, their approach feels more pure in a way.
games these days are standing on the shoulders of giants, no matter the influences

[Anonymous No.10002640]

>>10002127
Nigger

[Anonymous No.10002649]

>>10002519
This board can’t talk about anything else lately, feels like discord coordinated campaigns similar to what happens on /v/

[Anonymous No.10002701]

>>10002543
esl or retarded?

[Anonymous No.10002720]

>>10002543
>even the title "King's Field" is distinctly Japanese
no it isn't you fucking autist

[Anonymous No.10002738]

>>9999276
It's okay, Japanese are chuds for allying with the Nazis and refusing to be a multicultural feminist society.

[Anonymous No.10002918]

>>10002720
you are autistic, wrong, and mad

[Anonymous No.10003031]

>>10002543
retard

[Anonymous No.10003037]

>>9997641
>he history and tradition of Japanese dungeon crawlers
Making endless copies of Wizardy?

[Anonymous No.10003062]

>>10002635
That explains things. It's a perfectly good name for a golf course, makes no sense as to the nature, content, or lore of the game. And it's actually a common naming convention for Japanese developers, to just use some random unrelated word or name they see, but it doesn't always stand out as much. For example: Mario, Dhalsim, Dart (from Legend of Dragoon).
King's "Field" has no logical referent that a native English speaker would find sensible unless literal fields of a king figured into the equation somehow, and they would never smash those two words together arbitrarily.

[Anonymous No.10003093]

>>10003031
You only prove how stupid you are. Thank you for taking precious time from your one and only life to do that. I will sleep well knowing you are blind with impotent, idiotic rage born of an unfathomable insecurity that I can neither explain nor imagine.

[Anonymous No.10003094]

>>10003062
reminds me of Linkle Liver Story. the creator intended it to mean "people who live in linkle" kek

[Anonymous No.10003106]

>>10002431
>i am very triggered
>>10002436
>Quick cope
>>10002497
>this is my brain on twitter
>>10002531
>nobody likes me
>>10002640
>>10002738
My negros

[Anonymous No.10003109]

>>10002918
>>10003093

[Anonymous No.10003279]

In kings field 3 (us kings field 2) what are the requirements for not getting pushed back by the moonlight greatsword barrier? I think I found all the archmages? I got the one in that first dungeon with the flytraps, the one in the earth dungeon, at lake noel and then orladin in his maze. I may be missing one but I have been scouring the map and guides and I can't figure out why I can't get past the barrier. Would appreciate help if anyone has any advice.

[Anonymous No.10003649]

why are jews inbred?

[Anonymous No.10003770]

>>10003093
U RONRERY YERRO BOI UMAD? HAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.10003805]

>>10003279
weird, finding all 4 should let you go through the barrier. maybe you loaded the game after talking to one of them and forgot to do it again

[Anonymous No.10003883]

>>10003805
I am an idiot, I had assumed the first one was the wind one and since I couldn't find a fire themed dungeon but had fire spells I thought I had gotten the fire one and forgotten about it but nah I had forgot to go to the palace of winds at all. Did that and finished the game up in one big session. Casting sword magic sure is hard but it is a cool series anyway.

I would say kf1 is a great tech demo, kf2 and 3 are held back by the technology but are really ahead of their time. 4 is its own thing and I think I like it best overall as I really dug the map layout leading back into itself again and again. Shadow tower 1 is kinda meme hard but abyss is based.

I feel like I have come away with a greater appreciation for the souls games now. But it mostly makes me want to see a modern kings field or shadow tower game get made. Maybe after armored core they will give it a go. Could make for a neat VR game.

[Anonymous No.10005510]

King's Feed

[Anonymous No.10007051]

>>10002518
>If you don't know what Armored Core or Otogi is
You reek of kid who's first From game was Dark Souls and then became a From fanboy. Which isn't bad per se, since most people here are 20-something, but I did play King's Field back in the day, that's why I know gameplay-wise it's completely nothing like Souls, and Souls took elements from OOT. Otogi is a 2002 game, and Armored Core is 3rd person but a mech simulator, nothing like OOT/Souls.
>It's not subjective
So, you named Armored Core, which doesn't play like OOT or Souls. What other pre-1998 game can you name that has OOT/Souls style targeting and the same kind of swordplay (frontal thrusts, jump slashes, etc) and rolling?
By subjective I mean you want to downplay the influence of OOT, but all you can do is name 2 From games that don't play like Souls or were released after OOT.
>You create a false dilemma in which any game with something resembling Z-targeting also must've drawn all it's other mechanics from OOT
I didn't say "all its other mechanics" though, and I'm not even creating any "dilemma" (dunno why you used that word). All I'm saying is that it's obvious why people mention OOT as an influence for Souls, and I think you know it too, but you just get angry because a lot of people mention it, and I can kind of sympathize with that sentiment (of getting sick when something is too popular), but again: subjectivities.
>You completely sidestepped my point about how Souls had a different approach to weapon movesets because of some bare bones visual indicators.
"bare bones visual indicators"? what do you mean? Toggling between enemies while targeting, or rolling, or frontal thrusts aren't "bare bones visual indicators", are solid gameplay mechanics.
>A lot of the shield's functionality is locked behind crouching, Z-targeting itself doesn't accomplish much
Play OOT. You can use the shield while moving if you Z-target.