Emulation vs real hardware

[Anonymous No.9975910]

What are the REAL differences? Every online article just talks about "muh authentic feeling" and "muh feeling of original controller" but in technical terms is emulation 1:1 with real hardware?

The only difference I KNOW exists is
>game might've lagged on real hardware but not in emulation (e.g. too many enemies on screen in Zelda 1)

[Anonymous No.9975932]

It's not 2005 anymore. You can emulate on a CRT with the correct resolution and using the original pad if you want, there are no limits; while using all the improvements like overclocking, sprite flicker reduction, perspective correction, online play, AI translation tool, and so on; and "input lag" is no longer an issue between proper hardware, proper configuration and runahead.

At this point 99% of the anti-emulation arguments are just coomlectors acting in bad faith and making statements that aren't true or stopped being true 15 years ago.

The drawbacks of emulation are very minimal. Like for instance for someone who plays a lot of NES/Famicom games, a couple of games require tracking down a specific emulator or even a specific version of an emulator to work, but I'm talking of something that happened twice out of 400 games. The average player would rarely stumble on something like that.

[Anonymous No.9975934]

You will never be a real console.
You have no architecture, you have no mappers, you no soul.
You're a homogenic computer, twisted by software and roms into a crude mockery of hardware perfection.

[Anonymous No.9975948]

Games are designed for specific chips and hardware layouts that just are not the same on more advanced but newer tech

Playing a game like Mario 64 on its original hardware where the game is using 80-100% of the entire systems capabilities vs playing on an emu where your using 100 who knows how many times more power hardware to mimic the original functions end up translating into something you can feel regardless of how it looks or how accurate

[Anonymous No.9975953]

>>9975948
>something you can feel regardless of how it looks or how accurate
low testosterone hands typed this

[Anonymous No.9975975]

>>9975948
Massive sperg cope take.

[Anonymous No.9975982]

>>9975910
By far the biggest difference is SD CRTs. There is no substitute for a genuine SD CRT. You can try to fake it with black frame insertion and scanline shaders, but it won't look the same. It's technically possible to emulate on a SD CRT, but few graphics cards support it.

[Anonymous No.9975987]

>>9975948
I agree but what's worse is "configuring"
I didn't have to configure a damn thing to play the originals. I don't want to set controls, I don't want to set graphics settings, I just want the damn thing to work exactly the same every time I hook it up. Which with emulators should mean install emulator and load rom. I shouldn't have to configure anything after that.

[Anonymous No.9975989]

>>9975910
Didn't read your cope. If you're not playing on real hardware, you're having a lesser, inferior experience. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.9975991]

>>9975910
-audio latency. on original hardware the sound comes out the instant you poke the sound chip. on emulators you are usually beholden to a multitasking operating system with a sound server that requires you to buffer your sounds so it can mix them and even if you have exclusive mode you still have to emulate the sound hardware which can add delay

-most emulators have terrible frame pacing if you aren't vsynced to a 60hz monitor. try looking at the RTSS frametime graph on your favorite emu. it's bad. and as you know, 60hz vsync adds about 80 years of input delay on an LCD

-3d games will nearly always have graphical imperfections

-shader compilation stutter

-analog inputs usually have to be translated from a different standard with different deadzones and edge values. this is part of why n64 games feel so dated on modern hardware. dolphin lets you pass through a real gamecube controller with no input translation but that's the only emulator i can think of that does that

-99.99999% chance you are playing on an HD LCD that will mangle the game's graphics and motion fidelity worse than an axe wound surgeon even if you spend years getting a good upscale shader

-emulators require tons of tweaking and praying to software Jesus to get them the way you want. original hardware + CRT is smooth and playable no matter what. you just plug it in and play

this is from someone who spergged out about emulation for years and now prefers FPGAs and original hardware. the only advantage emulators have is run-ahead

[Anonymous No.9976003]

>>9975991
>Gay pic
>Gay opinion
Can't say they don't match.

[Anonymous No.9976009]

>>9976003
>gay opinion
i feel like i'm being pretty objective, i'm not trying to disparage emulators. just stating the facts and making frens aware of shortcomings. tell me emulators don't have to deal with sound server jank

[Anonymous No.9976021]

>>9976009
everything on my computer has to deal with audio jank. I can't get audacity to record with less than 65 - 90 ms of latency, which even worse varies every time I hit record. I have a Focusrite interface fwiw.

[Anonymous No.9976024]

>>9975991
only good post in thread

[Anonymous No.9976034]

>>9975910
There's really not much difference for most systems before 3D.

But at the same time I can't help but partly agree with >>9975948. No matter how accurate the emulation is, there's something disgustingly perverse about wasting CPU power and memory on an emulation layer when the original hardware would run the same game in a much more pure and straight forward way. I still play most games through emulation myself though.

[Anonymous No.9976037]

>>9975991
>audio latency
unnoticeable unless you're a turboautist
>using a LCD and not using v-syncing
no comment
>3D graphical imperfections
Depends on the console emulated, the emulator, and the game. Accuracy for the fifth gen and beyond is not perfect, but it's mostly time / cycle accuracy rather than graphical glitches (unless of course you emulate non-retro stuff)
>shader compilation stutter
doesn't happen unless you emulate non-retro stuff like Switch, X360, etc. or use a literal toaster
>inputs
with the right settings input lag can be minimized, and if you use an original controller with a good adapter (which you don't even need btw, DS4 works fine for most systems) translation does not change the feeling when playing (unless again you're imagining things as a turboautists)
>HD LCD
here's your problem again
>tweaking
On that, agreed, more time can be spent on tweaking than with original hardware which literal plug and play. Especially on fifth gen and beyond since perfect accuracy hasn't been achieved yet.

Also:
>mentioning FPGA and tranny pic
opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.9976061]

>>9976037
>unnoticeable unless you're a turboautist
why are you here? this reply is literally a whole bunch of cope and "it's good enough"ing. enjoy games how you want but "works fine" is not enough for everybody and it's not a substitute for native gameplay. i don't know why you're coming onto /vr/ and suggesting that everybody settle for playing Mario 64 with a dualshock and 64ms of audio delay

>opinion discarded
clearly not

[Anonymous No.9976083]

>>9975910
Emulation's faithfulness to original hardware is entirely dependent on how well the emulator is programmed. Now, for earlier systems like the NES or SNES, emulation is capable of being highly accurate and functionally identical to the real deal. As you go past this mark to more complex systems, certain less understood functions are approximated and don't behave exactly as they would on original hardware, either because the developers don't understand the very fine details to the point of being able to replicate them exactly or don't know how to maintain good performance while maintaining accuracy.

With that in mind though, many emulated systems are "accurate enough" where you're not going to notice anything off for most games. I think the biggest problems I've noticed in emulation personally have been things in PS2 games on PCSX2, like shadows being drawn on top of models instead of under them, sprite errors, that sort of thing. N64 is another system I've noticed issues with, mostly relating to sprites, transparency, and scaling. Apart from those systems which only have issues in certain games, most of my experience emulating has been flawless.

[Anonymous No.9976113]

>>9976061
10ms of audio latency is unnoticeable for a normal human being, now kindly kys

[Anonymous No.9976128]

>>9976113
>10ms
god i wish

[Anonymous No.9976132]

>>9975910
input and display lag are STILL a big problem with emulation.

[Anonymous No.9976137]

>>9976132
out of all the problems i have with emulation, this one is pretty much solved. 240hz monitor + vrr + runahead can get slightly better input-to-video latency than a CRT on original hardware. if only the frame pacing were good enough for it to matter

t. >>9975991

[Anonymous No.9976140]

>>9976128
64ms is almost unnoticeable and even 128ms is okay. Try delaying audio from video by 100ms in VLC or MPV and you’ll see it’s nothing but OCD autism

[Anonymous No.9976146]

>>9976140
congrats on making the most retarded post in this thread

[Anonymous No.9976151]

>>9975910
the difference, in most circumstances, is only noticeable if you're an ultra sperg who has not felt the touch of a woman in 40 years.
nearly anybody emulating for casual play will not notice problems, especially for retro consoles. Obviously newer systems with more 'in-development' emulators are a different story, but that's off topic.

[Anonymous No.9976156]

It’s worse than real hardware but I don’t give a fuck I’m in my 30s playing childrens games that are 30 years old by myself in my living room

[Anonymous No.9976302]

>>9975910
It depends on the implementation. Most emulation (high level) strives to run the software at all and be compatible, some focuses on accuracy (low level), to be as close to the original hardware as possible.

[Anonymous No.9976337]

>>9976132
They aren’t
>>9976156
This is about right.
For something like snes or mega drive or Amiga it’s more than good enough and has been for decades.

[Anonymous No.9976880]

>>9975910
Depending on the accuracy of an emulator, you light get unintended issues due to miscalculations in translating the math the CPU/GPU/whatever has to make.

An excellent example of that is driv3r and stuntman on PCSX2. The AI pathing is completely fucked up making the game impossible to play due to inaccurate translations of some odd stuff the ps2 CPU did. PCSX2's website had a good post on why this kind of stuff occurred .

Inaccurate emulation can also create graphical issues and plenty of other stuff.
There are also other ways emulation can be inaccurate to real hardware, like higher input lag, or sometimes stuff done on purpose like higher resolution, or better than original audio quality, etc.

The inaccuracy of emulation is all dependent on which emulator you use, some can be literally perfect like some NES emulators, others can be dogshit or very early, or very un optimized.

As to what you would want to use : it depends on what you're looking for and what platform you want to play.

Sometimes it's a lot better to just go with the real hardware, other times emulation And real hardware are comparable or identical.

[Anonymous No.9976901]

>>9975910
The controller is all you need. In cases like Game Boy and Game Gear emulation is actually preferred as the original hardware had really poor screen quality and in some cases (like GG) was really cumbersome to actually carry around, especially since it ate tons of batteries. I still own my childhood SNES, Genesis, N64, and PS1 but never use them anymore because emulation on a TV is just way more convenient and allows me to play all of the games I don't have without shelling out for an Everdrive or whatever

[Anonymous No.9976908]

>>9976901
OP is asking about literally everything but the physical controller aspect

[Anonymous No.9976942]

Just buy original hardware if the thought of possibly inaccurate emulation bothers you.

[Anonymous No.9976985]

>>9976140
>does this
It's super noticable especially when you're looking at someone talking. You're just being wilfully unobservant.

[Anonymous No.9976990]

>I get banned for "participating/instigating a flamewar" for telling a tranny obsessed retard to fuck off back to /b/ or /trash/
>Somehow this thread and many others like it still remain up
What gives, /vr/annie?

[Anonymous No.9977043]

>>9976990
i don't know why people are flaming this shit, some people prefer convenience and flexibility and some people prefer the better experience but they get really heated about their preference for some reason. emulation dickriders insist only autists care about [insert drawback here] and the original hardware/FPGA crowd screeches every time someone doesn't dedicate an entire room and quarter of their budget to their hardware collection and a separate TV

is the solution to flamewars to just stop playing video games? it seems we all just want each other to be miserable

[Anonymous No.9977068]

>>9977043
The solution is to be genuine while being open minded to multiple perspectives with others. S'hard to do on here when everyone's got some beef over something like it literally abused irl, ironic or otherwise.

[Anonymous No.9977075]

Emulation is vastly superior to original hardware for most games and no tranny can ever tell me otherwise.

[Anonymous No.9977101]

>>9977068
i guess it was my fault for going on 4channel.org and expecting reasonable and balanced discussion about a polarizing topic

[Anonymous No.9977112]

>>9975932
>AI translation tool
so garbage.

[Anonymous No.9977115]

>>9977101
Seems like that's what happened, plus the screeching obv

[Anonymous No.9977139]

>>9977075
the best snes emulator is made by a tranny

[Anonymous No.9977149]

>>9977139
Then its not the best.

[Anonymous No.9977159]

>>9975910
Original hardware is great but emulation offers things that can't be ignored.

- Like you mentioned, emulation can bring out games' full potentials in terms of graphics.

- Emulation will eventually be the only way to preserve and play these games once the real hardware degrades.

My only real issues with emulation is:

- Emulation keybindings are typically a fucking nightmare and impossible to set up.
The games should be played with real hardware controllers at the very least, but this makes it hard.

- Emu set up can also complicate and/or make local multiplayer impossible. Can't really play with others if it's just running on your pc/monitor and the emulator is too shit to have decent configuration for it.

- Whenever they figure out how to make emulators that aren't so finicky and a massive pain in the dick to configure the simplest things, I think that's when it will actually be superior to real hardware.

- There are only really a few specific instances where emulation is just all out better imo.
One example of this for me is the 1964 GEPD for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. It's a preconfigured setup to play the two games on pc with mouse and keyboard like an FPS shooter and it's fucking awesome. You'll have more fun on that than ever playing those two games on authentic hardware with authentic controllers. (Except for the multiplayer scenario maybe).

[Anonymous No.9977167]

>>9975910

for anything before playstation you will not notice anything unless you have extreme autism.

[Anonymous No.9977174]

>>9975932
No one is documenting CRTs thoroughly. There is just a bunch of wankery, it is like a CRT without the proof.

Tell me when we can select various Trinitron and various browning tubes from a list. And there is someone trying to accurately emulate the tubes.

[Anonymous No.9977179]

>>9977149
holy fucking based

[Anonymous No.9977193]

>>9977159
>Emulation will eventually be the only way to preserve and play these games
FPGA cores are both way more accurate and way more useful as a preservation of the original hardware schematics

[Anonymous No.9977202]

>>9977159
I just fully replayed Goldeneye. I started on real hardware and that 1964 setup for kb+m, at the same time. Ended up finishing it on real hardware and dropped the emulator version 3/4 of the way through. I unlocked all cheats the legit way for the first time in my life. It felt so good, most enjoyment I've had from a game in a long while.
My N64 controller is brand new and official, though. So there's that factor. Also I used 1.3 controls which may be unorthodox but it's the one I liked the best.

[Anonymous No.9977227]

>>9977193
so emulation with salad dressing on it. It's not real hardware, it's "real hardware." It's a ship of theseus thing.

[Anonymous No.9977293]

>>9976880
>status: playable
I'm guessing there's a whole lot more shit like this that comes up when using PCSX2. I'd like to replace my softmodded PS2 with emulation but if it's busted, it's busted.

[Anonymous No.9977337]

>>9977293
Thanks, but I'll just play one of the other 4000 games on my emulation sffpc instead.

[Anonymous No.9977445]

>>9977159
>- Emu set up can also complicate and/or make local multiplayer impossible. Can't really play with others if it's just running on your pc/monitor and the emulator is too shit to have decent configuration for it.

When the fuck has this ever happened?

[Anonymous No.9977449]

>>9977101
Pretty sure this is 4chan, but w/e.

[Anonymous No.9977474]

>>9975910
I like to make homebrew so I have to be certain the thing I'm doing is crashing the hardware or if its just the emulator. I like to do stuff like like make loops running a certain amount of times so accuracy is super important. I want to experiment with the edge of timing to find out what strange effects could happen. I see hardware that is capable of certain things but was not used for some reason, I want to see why.
Its the whole zsnes thing, you make a hack for that and then no one can play it as better emulators come out. I mean even mister can have issues, sure you won't even notice it they say.
There have been times when what I did was just glitchy on the emulator but looked ok on the real thing but the very best emulators are often really good, emulators help greatly with development.

>>9976880
gt racing 97 on dos emulators does something like that if you make the cpu too fast

[Anonymous No.9977515]

>>9977445
I've always had a shit time trying to configure controls on emulators. Then you have to worry about controller adapters and ports. I don't think it would be worth playing a mp emulated game unless the controls were perfect for everyone playing.

So for me, playing multiplayer is just better on real hardware in front of a tv.

[Anonymous No.9977590]

Emulation is mostly fine, but the lag from flat panels and USB or Bluetooth input sometimes hurts gameplay. Some games can be hard to beat on an emulator.

I really don't understand people who think the blurriness of CRT screens is something to be emulated, though. Raw jagged pixels all the way for me.

[Anonymous No.9977603]

>>9975948
Let me guess, you're an audiophile as well?

[Anonymous No.9977618]

>>9975991
>Oh no, my low polygon N64 game with 4-but midi music is only 99% replicated by an emulator! And there's an added 2 ms input lag on this children's game!!! My 30 year old brain/ears/eyes can totally feel the difference. These games are unplayable!!!!

Giving off lots of audiophile & wine enthusiast vibes.

[Anonymous No.9977625]

>>9977603
>complains about audiophiles
>never heard anything more than a soundbar
ears may lie but oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzers don't

[Anonymous No.9977843]

>>9977618
Give it up, these autists are damaged beyond repair. Those are the kind of person that will tell you they can tell 320kbps and V0 encoded MP3 from FLAC or whatever meme format they read on leddit. Yet everytime I have faced these retards in real life and proposed a blind test on a proper monitoring setup so they can prove their point, they failed it.

If you have a proper TV (CRT or OLED with <10-20ms input delay) and controller (original or modern; DS4 is less than 10ms, even in bluetooth for instance), there is no noticeable difference for everything before the N64. N64 and PSX are almost there, and PCSX2 is good enough for playing most games (still room for improvement I admit), and beyond is not retro.

>m-m-muh weeb game with muh japanese collector accessory not handled
off yourself + ynbaw

Kind reminder that your autism is being triggered by children games on specific points that you didn't or couldn't even conceptualize of as a kid

[Anonymous No.9977880]

>>9975910
Depends on the emulation, generally anything prior to the 5th generation of consoles is easily 1:1 even on potatoes. However once you introduce the 5th and 6th gen at least for where we are today you start getting into major issues some emus are better than others but generally you can not get a 1:1 on most of them. This isn't to say the majority of games are unplayable but rather they will not run as they should with various issues be it graphical, audio, crashes, lag, and so on. There may be some hacky solutions to these that solve them and for 99% of people that will be good enough but for autists (especially speedrunners) this is NOT good enough and they will continue to bitch and complain.

[Anonymous No.9977883]

>>9975910
Console emulation is okay but it will never be 100% the same especially for shit like the N64. You're much better off just buying a console + flashcarts, it's not that expensive.
Arcade emulation is hit or miss with lots of inaccuracies here and there, but it's better than not playing at all.

[Anonymous No.9977886]

>>9977843
poorfag nigger hands posted this

[Anonymous No.9977895]

>>9977886
>owning a high end OLED TV is poorfag-tier
Poor people are usually the ones that end up spending their money on the most useless shit possible. Sorry but I don’t see the value in buying anything before the PSX era. Enjoy your retarded (((retro))) market and collecting man children toys in your mom’s guest room while I impregnate my wife to give her beautiful white children. I still get to play shit tons of games on a simple and efficient setup. Sorry for your crippling autism

[Anonymous No.9977914]

>>9975987
>I don't want to
That sounds like a you problem.
>emulators should mean install emulator and load rom
Emulators will always require presetting, whether you like it or not.

[Anonymous No.9977915]

>>9977895
>noooo stop playing games the right way!!
keep crying dumb bitch

[Anonymous No.9977926]

>>9977915
Never said emulation was the right way to play and that buying hardware is the wrong one; simply that it is retarded in the year 2020+3 of our Lord. I’m perfectly happy with my setup and don’t see the need to change. People should play the way they want, but imo there’s no point in filling my house with garbage that I will play only once in a while since I tend to play games from a lot of different consoles. Hardware is still the only way to go for autists that only play 1 or 2 games like speedrunners

[Anonymous No.9977929]

>>9977926
>it's retarded to play games the right way because it hurts my feelings!!
can't get more whiny than this little bitch
>muh setup
post it so we can laugh

[Anonymous No.9977943]

>>9977843
Incredibly based

[Anonymous No.9977952]

>>9977929
Still no rational arguments from (you). Simply because I find some behavior to be retarded doesn’t mean I’m feeling hateful, envious, or angry about said behavior. Still waiting on (your) side for any valid counterarguments.
>setup
OLED LG TV, DS4, a couple original controllers with adapters, and an M1 laptop configured with RetroArch so that I can couch-n-play, what the fuck did you expect? I can also play in bed, train, plane, etc. while you are stuck at your mum’s, who must be so depressed by your miserable failure of life that she’s on prozac and antidepressants

[Anonymous No.9977956]

>>9977929
You can laugh at my shitty setup if you prefer. It's a mini PC plugged into a ten year old BenQ monitor. I use a DS4 to play my emulated N64, PS1, and SNES games on it.
I got obsessed with the minimalism meme and sold off all my gaming stuff. Now I cope the same way >>9977926 does by pretending it was clogging up my home.
Try to go easy on him, dude, deep down he knows he fucked up.

[Anonymous No.9977968]

>>9977956
Bro your setup is based. I still have my PSX, PS2 and PS3; I just put them away since I don’t use them anyway and so I don’t have to keep them plugged and taking dust. You can still buy a modded PS1 and rip CDs, and buy back an N64 with a flashcart if you feel like it. Not sure about SNES but there are some pretty good replicas and FPGA reproductions around. All I’m saying is that collecting old games and consoles for the sake of it is just pure consooming and coomllecting and that there still is good alternatives to emulation that do not involve the retarded retro market if you’re having regrets or cannot wait for 5th gen emulation to be 100% accurate. What do you specifically regret?

[Anonymous No.9977975]

>>9977952
>what the fuck did you expect?
an actual good setup like maybe a mister, but nah it's just a fucking flat screen with okayish emulators and a ps4 controller lmao
>you are stuck at your mum’s, who must be so depressed by your miserable failure of life that she’s on prozac and antidepressants
so it's projecting time already? oof
I use inaccurate emulators with suboptimal controllers sometimes too for convenience, still doesn't change that real hardware is better.

[Anonymous No.9977984]

>>9977975
>mister
lmao at your life for falling for memes

[Anonymous No.9977986]

>>9977984
>it's meme because uhhh... it sounds funny
double digit iq

[Anonymous No.9977987]

>>9977968
I never went overboard with collecting, didn't have a massive wall of games from old systems I never touched, but I did have a few big box PC games I wish I had kept. Fallout 1, Oddworld Abe's Oddysee, and UT2004. Most of my games were PAL region, so all my N64 and PS1 games really weren't worth keeping. Excluding Gex 3D and Lylat Wars/Star Fox 64, the NTSC versions are a noticeable step up.

[Anonymous No.9977997]

>>9975910
I use both and go back and forth whenever I feel like it. To me the advantages of emulation are not about making the game prettier with increased internal resolution or shaders, It's about fixing performance problems the consoles originally had. For example, disabling sprite limit on NES, where on real hardware it flickers when you have like 3+ sprites on the screen. Negating input lag that many games have on real hardware. For example Final Fight 2, it's sluggish as fuck, that's because it has like 6 frames (aprox., can't remember the exact number) of lag on SNES. On emulation you can cut all that and it's perfect. Reducing loading times from CD games, Neo Geo CD actually becomes playable completely cutting any loading (you barely see the loading screen for half a second). Overclocking, really good specially on PSX and Neo Geo. Irons out any speed performance problems, you want to run Future Cop LAPD at max framerate even in co-op? You can do that. You don't want your game to cough like a motherfucker at any explosion? It fixes that too. Hey, Metal Slug 2 is actually playable now, etc.

I played with original hardware all my life, but it's nice what emulation can do under the hood for all the imperfections the original games had.

[Anonymous No.9978002]

>>9977997
Most good developers took slowdowns into account when balancing the games so just overclocking everything isn't very smart, not to mention 3D games tend to speed up if you increase the frame-rate.

[Anonymous No.9978006]

>>9978002
There's an argument to be made aboutslowdown in shmups, but any other genre I'm not so sure. There are some 3D games that are sensitive to overclocking (like Toshinden), it's true. But the vast majority just locks you at the max framerate the developers put in. Overclocking just ensures the framerate to be constant.

[Anonymous No.9978013]

>>9978006
it's not just shmups, literally anything action-arcade takes slowdowns in consideration
>But the vast majority just locks you at the max framerate the developers put in.
I can understand this in racing games, but aside from that it really depends on the game.

[Anonymous No.9978016]

>>9977227
if you care about original hardware for its technical advantages, FPGAs are good. just buy a MiSTer and none of the proprietary (((analogue))) junk. they don't have to deal with any of the drawbacks of running games in a software emulation layer under a janny OS that restricts what it can do, it is literally a clone of the original hardware. down to being able to interface with the original controllers without going through USB if you have the right hardware. people who like original hardware for some philosophical sense of purity or like the tactility of using original controllers and cartridges won't be satisfied, but people who are looking for something better than settling for emulation will be. it's literally just a multi-system original hardware clone with better I/O. philosophically it's emulation but technically it's clone hardware

[Anonymous No.9978024]

>>9978016
it's still is heavily dependent on the quality of the core though, the good fpga stuff are good just because they are modern and made from scratch.

[Anonymous No.9978026]

>>9976140
>5 frames of audio delay is unnoticable

[Anonymous No.9978045]

>>9978026
1 frame @ 30fps is 33ms (16,5ms @ 60fps). Hence 64ms of audio delay amounts to less than 2 frames @ 30fps, retard.

Anyway what does matter is the human sensibility to audio to video delay, which is far lower than sensibility to input to video lag, for exemple.

You definitely won't notice 64ms (2 frames @ 30fps) of delay between audio and video, while you definitely may be able to notice 64ms of additional input lag, since
1/ games on original hardware DO some baseline input lag (a certain amount of frames which depends on the game)
2/ if your setup is shit (screen / controller / emu settings to cope with a toaster), you also will have some additional input lag already

For input lag, also keep in mind that the human reaction time for video and sound is a bit less than 200ms anyway.

[Anonymous No.9978049]

>>9977843
>I can't notice so nobody can, now I'm writing a dissertation on how incredulous I am as a result of my poor comprehension of the issue
>I'm not mad you're mad
Lol, lmao.

[Anonymous No.9978069]

>>9978045
cont.
>"the Advanced Television Systems Committee recommends that audio should lead video by no more than 15 milliseconds and audio should lag video by no more than 45 milliseconds."
also
>"the ITU performed strictly controlled tests with expert viewers and found that the threshold for detectability is -125ms to +45ms."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio-to-video_synchronization

45ms is the threshold for human detection of A/V desync, which means you can only detect it if you have a previous reference point and/or are really focused on it (OCD autism). Some other sources even state higher thresholds such as 140ms.

>"The ITU J.248 recommendation for operational monitoring of video-to-audio delay in television programs suggests that people can detect desynchronizations as low as 140 ms"

https://www.primevideotech.com/machine-learning/prime-video-automatically-detects-audio-video-synchronization-defects-in-dubbed-media-at-scale

This may only a problem in videogames if the gameplay is heavily focused around sound, such as GuitarHero for example. Also note that the brain very quickly adapts to slight A/V desyncs (same way as it adapts with slight input delays) if they are not too high, and, most importantly, consistent.

[Anonymous No.9978074]

>>9978049
you're imagining things
see >>9978069
>poor comprehension of the issue
still waiting for you to explain where I'm wrong

[Anonymous No.9978085]

>>9977843
Can you explain to me these scenarios where you meet these people irl and test them?

[Anonymous No.9978104]

>>9978085
Work, or discussions with friends. I had two "audiophile" colleagues at work who were convinced they could tell MP3 from FLAC so I tested them with some good monitoring headphones. Also we re-did the test for the lulz at my place on a better setup.

Same thing happened with a friend who went overboard with the whole audio thing (he ended up buying gold-plated cables etc. while his room wasn't even properly treated acoustically speaking).

Posting the result for A/V sync sensitivity from ITU for autists.

[Anonymous No.9978112]

>>9978104
Sorry I thought you meant you tested real hardware vs emulators

[Anonymous No.9978119]

>>9978074
You're treating playing video games like you treat watching television and it shows. All games have sound effects which are constant "previous reference points", the fact you don't notice this indicates you aren't particularly observant.
>But you'll adapt!
Yeah, humans tend to adapt to poor situations whether it be hangnails or dictatorships. Doesn't justify having them though.

I did your test and noticed. Call me an autist all you like, clearly sour grapes for you.
>>9978104
With the way you've phrased the matter it sounds like you used your phone to play the files.

[Anonymous No.9978126]

people who obsess over this shit will never reproduce

[Anonymous No.9978128]

malding

[Anonymous No.9978151]

>>9978119
Whatever makes you sleep at night.
>phone
Didn't use my phone, though even if I did it's audiophile-tier retardism, the difference is even less significant than 320 mp3 vs flac unless you use some dinosaur or shitty chink phone. Bluetooth is another matter and clearly impacts audio quality though.

[Anonymous No.9978196]

>>9975932
There are more consoles than the Nintendo and Super Nintendo

[Anonymous No.9978201]

>>9978196
nothing is worse than emufags genuinely advocating for playing n64 games on an emulator when you have the option to use the original hardware with a direct interface to the controller

[Anonymous No.9978208]

>>9978151
Failure to rebut is tacit concession.
>Didn't use my phone
You'll say you did a test but won't specify what you used, as far as I can know you overlooked using a quality DAC which obfuscated your test results. After all, if you disparage audiophiles then I don't see you owning audiophile equipment to produce audiophile quality sound.

[Anonymous No.9978214]

>>9978126
>WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE OBSESSING OVER VIDEO GAMES?!
Because it's a video game board for enthusiasts?
>>9978201
Even if I had held on to my N64 I would still emulate, because the N64 controller is hot garbage.

[Anonymous No.9978238]

>>9977293
It's indeed technically playable if you skip some impossible levels for stuntman, driv3r is just not playable at all however.

Keep your og console and get an HDMI adapter. You'll never get an image as good as an upscaled one from an emulator but at least you won't deal with this crap

[Anonymous No.9978249]

>>9977625
>Needs an oscilloscope to prove his point
Lmao

[Anonymous No.9978257]

>>9975948
>using 100 who knows how many times more power hardware
why does an arm device emulating mario 64 last longer batterywise than a portable n64

[Anonymous No.9978263]

>>9978249
>Needs subjectivity to prove his point
No wonder the guy gets so uptight when anyone disagrees.

[Anonymous No.9978271]

>>9978049
Nobody is claiming that native hardware and emulation are exactly the same. But the obsession with details that are barely perceptible is pure autism. Unless you are some elite speed runner, the difference isn't significant enough to be noteworthy.

It's like bicyclist sperging out over his $900 aerodynamic uniform when he's never even qualified for a real race.

[Anonymous No.9978272]

>>9978257
Stop the presses, old hardware is less electricity efficient!! They're talking about processing power not kW⋅h power, lmfao.

[Anonymous No.9978279]

>>9978104
Audiophiles are peak retards. They spend thousands on hardware but then spend zero time considering air temp, humidity, composition, etc. Why bother with a $10,000 setup when your room isn't completely soundproofed and perfectly symmetrical?

Do they even monitor their levels of earwax?

[Anonymous No.9978284]

>>9978263
If you need an oscilloscope to prove there is a difference, perhaps the difference is very very small?

[Anonymous No.9978310]

>>9978271
I don't care what nobody is claiming, the fact you care about other people's perceptions and insist they aren't worthwhile is sour grapes on your part. You can apparently tell the difference but insist it doesn't matter because you can ignore them as if everyone is willing to make compromises like you. Furthermore, you don't get to determine how other people enjoy their stuff, people can simply want an authentic experience and forgo emulators because of that alone.
>It's like bicyclist sperging out over his $900 aerodynamic uniform when he's never even qualified for a real race.
So what? Let the guy enjoy his costume. If anyone here is autistic it's you for being unable to recognize how not everyone has to align with your ideals.

Seriously, I don't care if you overlook audio lag because it's your experience. You got yours, I got mine. Your insistence the difference is negligible is mere egotism, if it were truly and objectively negligible then nobody would bother discussing it to begin with.

[Anonymous No.9978324]

>>9978271
>everyone is an easy to please shit player like me
No, and let's stop pretending that used console + flashcarts cost a fortune, please.

[Anonymous No.9978327]

>>9978284
Again that's subjective, if anything it proves a user's acuity which again isn't up for debate. 1 is a small number yet when added to 0 makes an infinitely large difference.

[Anonymous No.9978374]

>>9978214
>the N64 controller is hot garbage
the N64 controller is the only controller on the market that hits the proper analog values for N64 games, and it also has a weird analog stick design that is very accurate but degrades quickly. it is much better to replace your N64 controller than it is to use an aftermarket one

[Anonymous No.9978390]

>>9978024
same with emulation, but accurate FPGA is theoretically identical to original hardware and accurate emulation is still held back by being an emulator

FPGAshit is great when it's well-developed, the handheld cores especially are a blessing when for ages we've been stuck hacking up a GBP at best (GBP is native but the default software is ass) and at worst literally don't have a way to output video at all. i like original hardware but handheld LCDs are insufferable. i don't care if games were balanced around motion blur to compensate. i refuse to play on a real game boy

[Anonymous No.9978398]

>>9978390
That’s fine but it’s not real hardware, I don’t understand misterfags saying play on REAL HARDWARE talking about misters. It’s not real hardware bitch the game company didn’t make the mister.

[Anonymous No.9978414]

identical to the original hardware at the abstraction level of single instructions, but then there's things like transistor-accurate emulators and also digital to analog and analog to digital emulation, various quirks in the manufacturing technology...
In the end, running something on an FPGA is logically no different than running it on a typical microprocessor, as far as I'm aware

[Anonymous No.9978416]

>>9978414
Meant to be quoting
>>9978390
>theoretically identical to original hardware

[Anonymous No.9978426]

>>9977043
The solution is to play the fucking games. I have a CRT with modded OG hardware for pretty much everything I want, but emulate sometimes out of convenience. They're not mutually exclusive, and either way is completely valid if you're having fun.

[Anonymous No.9978434]

>>9978426
This me.
>plenty of consoles
>PSP go, 3DS, and Vita for everything else

[Anonymous No.9978453]

I think the issue with emulation is that most people misunderstand what games actually are. Games are made of code, which is a language. A console is an interpreter for that language. It reads that language as a series of instructions and then carries them out. When I play a console game on a PC through emulation, I'm using the same game code that the console would be using -- all of the little bits and pieces of that game's soul are intact. The game itself does not magically change. The difference is the interpreter I'm using. An emulator "learns" the same language as a console so it can follow the game's instructions. As a result, if an emulator can perfectly replicate the physical properties of a console in software form, it can read the language just as fluently, and thus produce the same experience. You can say, "well, if the emulator CAN'T read it perfectly, then it isn't the same!". That's true, except even games played on an original console won't always be perfect. I once had a PS2 game with a few pinholes in it, and some of the music was missing; though it worked perfectly otherwise. Is that game, played on a PS2 and yet missing inherit features of the game, still a more valid or accurate representation of the original software than if I were playing it on an emulator? Arguably not. Even if I was using a fully working copy of a game, small differences in the physical makeup of one console versus another can have effects on how the game runs. This is to say nothing of how redesignsd consoles (e.g. an original Genesis vs a model 3) can introduce even more variance. Is a game only the "real" experience if played on the first released model of a console? What about using a flashcart or disc drive emulator? Where do you draw the line in defining the real experience? The game is the game. It doesn't matter what device you play it on; only how well that device can understand the code.

[Anonymous No.9978486]

>>9978416
>>theoretically identical to original hardware
yes, in the sense that it is an actual processor that is natively running that game and has dedicated sound hardware and all the quirks of the original system except better I/O.

a good emulator is still running on a PC or god forbid modern console with a video driver and sound server and polling a USB input device using an input driver and having to deal with a CPU scheduler and frame timing and everything and it shows. i can tell the difference. a *close* emulation setup is possible if you sperg out a bunch and buy a ridiculously high refresh rate monitor or an old graphics card with DVI-I to output to a CRT and get super obsessive about configuration and shit but by then i already have my MiSTer or console working and can just play the game the way it is meant to be played

>>9978453
my argument is not about purity but performance and latency quirks primarily. your argument is relevant to TASing and not actual real time gameplay

[Anonymous No.9978492]

>>9978486
>in the sense that it is an actual processor that is natively running that game
Not as far as my knowledge of FPGAs go.
As far as I know, modern FPGAs simply compute boolean functions using networks of binary LUT modules and other coprocessors
>has dedicated sound hardware
Not if it's being emulated with an FPGA

>a good emulator is still running on a PC or god forbid modern console...
Or it can run on an old console, old PC, a new PC witout an OS or a very simple one with non-appropriative scheduling.

In general, just because modern computers suck doesn't mean FPGAs are doing anything anything out of the ordinary in comparison; they're just a special kind of processor in the end

[Anonymous No.9978497]

It was only fun when you could emulate an arcade game that had no PS1/ Saturn port.

[Anonymous No.9978529]

>>9978310
Ha ha seethe more

>>9978414
The purists will never understand that manufacturing tolerances exist. They live in a bubble where spending lots of time and money making the perfect setup will transport them back to their childhoods when they were still happy children with a bright future.

[Anonymous No.9978665]

>>9978529
Damage control

[Anonymous No.9979064]

>>9975991
>emulators require tons of tweaking and praying to software Jesus to get them the way you want.
Not really. Most of the time they work like a charm once you tweak them the first time, which takes like a grand total of 30 minutes MAX.

Even better if you're running your own frontend where you can customize certain setting either per game or per emulator.
I have my whole library set up through Playnite where all I gotta do is press play and pick up my controller and Im ready to go.

[Anonymous No.9979074]

>>9975910
for me it depends on whether the system is a home console or portable I suppose, like how emulating handhelds on a PC feels kinda wrong to me, but emulating those handheld games on a handheld or just using original hardware feels right to me (and allows me to play the intended "pick up and play whenever" way).

[Anonymous No.9979075]

>>9975991
None of these matter to me cause I can play widescreen to increase resolution in games I want to lol. I can take screenshots, rewind, save state, use shaders, mod the game, etc, things which you either cant do on real hardware, or is tougher to do.

You can say all you want about accuracy but thats never concerned me.

[Anonymous No.9979273]

>>9978151
Not about sleeping. That anon >>9978119 is correct, and you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.9979278]

>>9977043
Like that other anon said, the solution is to actually play games, which neither of the autist crows actually do.
t. emulation gaming on an LCD

[Anonymous No.9979284]

>>9975991
>dolphin lets you pass through a real gamecube controller with no input translation but that's the only emulator i can think of that does that
i think N64 emulators have had this for a long time

[Anonymous No.9979368]

>>9978453
Thanks for this anon

[Anonymous No.9979380]

>>9978238
>Keep your og console
Basically this, there's a lot of cope when it comes to PS2 emulation.
>muh upscale, close enough, the games i play work
It's still in a state where you need to check the wiki for every single game because they have a really low bar for what's considered playable, essentially that means you can get past the title screen. It's not like emulating SNES, it's like emulating WiiU or Switch.