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/vr/ - Retro Games


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994074 No.994074 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

>Sega Genesis/Mega Drive' twangy-clean Yamaha FM sound chip
vs.
>SNES' S-SMP sampling-based audio chip, designed by Ken Kutaragi, aka, the "Riiiiidge Racer!" guy.

Lots of means to justify for either setup, so what was your preference based on the games that made full use of them?

>> No.994081

I've always preferred the sounds of the SNES. Maybe it's because I grew up with it but it's more soothing to me.

>> No.994090

Genesis music always sounded more lively and more energetic and I prefer that more.

Most SNES music is kinda dull for me and lacks the energy. I also don't like the use of the sampling in some games cause sometimes it sounds really fucking bad on the audio chip (probably why X3 sounds like shit.)

>> No.994096

Only real thing that stood out between the two for me was that most attempts at voiced sound clips were always pull-string quality on Genesis.

>> No.994105

>>994074
>Sega Genesis/Mega Drive' twangy-clean Yamaha FM sound chip with GOOD JAPANESE SOUND DRIVERS (SMPS, Vampire Killer, Namco Custom, Etc.)
Vs
>Non Overly Compressed samples along with SNES internal sound synth driver.

Fixed.

>inb4 GEMS wasn't that bad bawwwwww

>> No.994141

After hearing what the SNES could do, Genesis music sounded painfully "tinny" to me. CV4 sold me on the SNES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsSTQSAlSHg

>> No.994145

SNES is technically superior, but I very much prefer the crisp Genesis sound even though it's simpler.

>> No.994156

Here's some really creative SNES tracks. I love this stuff.

Axelay Colony
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLwh2IQzx1A

SoM Oracle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLWc6iG-iuI&fmt=18

Cybernator/ASV Credits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLnDcIn03wc

>> No.994157

>>994090

This for me as well.

>> No.994164

I had both.

Genesis for electric guitar and artificial FM synth sounds.

SNES for realism and everything else, especially effects.

>> No.994168

Really depends on what you're going for. Both chips are capable of making excellent music.

>> No.994173

Contra 3 (SNES)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPPTlI9Q1og

Contra Hard Corps (Genesis)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PYsnonKLBg

The Genesis music is almost painful to my ears by comparison.

>> No.994176

>>994173
>contra hard corps music
>painful

You have awful taste, sir.

>> No.994179

>>994176
The tunes are good. The sound quality is not. The SNES sounds better in my opinion.

>> No.994180

SPC700 by a long shot
I despise those twangy synth sounds

>> No.994184

Overall, the SNES. Its range just blows the Genesis out of the water. I'm not trying to badmouth the Genesis, though. It's got some great games with great music, but the SNES just had so much more versatility.

>> No.994193

>>994074
SNES had the advantage in that a lot of games for it were made by companies who do really good sounds.

Capcom's Megaman, Square games, etc.

Genesis I did enjoy its more metallic sounds, Earthworm Jim I feel came off better on the Genesis. Still have both carts too though part 2 was one of those late gen cardboard things.


It really boils down to the game itself, I think Genesis gets shit because most multiplatform games had worse sound on it, but its own games sounded great. Sadly most really good with music studios favored Nintendo.

>> No.994235
File: 944 B, 56x54, aw.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
994235

>tfw you can never listen to emulated Wario's Woods SPC music

>> No.994250

Regarding Genesis sound, from another thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9WzrJ5OyWA

>> No.994254

>Ken Kutaragi
>the "Riiiiidge Racer!" guy

Pick one.

>> No.994278

>>994074
>>994254
Yeah OP got Ken and Kaz mixed up.

>> No.994294

I'm a total megadrive fanboy, but there is no doubt that the snes had better sound

doesn't mean the snes utilized its sound better in every game though

>> No.994305

Both require a good composer to sound great. If you don't know how to program a FM synth the instruments will sound like shit, while bad samples in SNES games make the songs sound very dull in general.

Here's an example for both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHyH6-LVVbM (at least the first track)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSD4vaOPxpg

>> No.994341

>>994193
>late gen cardboard things.
I fucking hated those, why did they switch from the plastic cases?

>> No.994351

I prefer the harder, sharper and more aggressive sound the Genesis put out. Everything on the SNES sounds to me like I just got out of the pool and my ears are clogged.

First (personal favorite) example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6HNLcl1dl0

>> No.994352

>>994341

Cutting costs. Sega's boat was filling with water and they were going nuts with buckets.

>> No.994495

SNES is superior in all technical ways but if you knew what you were doing the Genesis could sound pretty fucking rad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLO5PDrgO1Q see vid for example

>> No.994663

FM synthesis is superior for both size and sound clarity and ease of expressiveness but the problem is finding competent individuals who can utilize it as well as competent composers.
Sample based music is easier to utilize and your main concern is having a competent composer.
Typically in worst case scenarios FM music will be awful as fuck, in best case scenario FM is potentially untouchable, especially when compared to lower quality samples instead of ideal sampling rates.

So what does that mean. It means it's a fucking tie because it depends on the individually produced music on a track by track basis. Fuck off.

>> No.994720

Megadrive sounded godly when the musicians decided to write their own instruments. Otherwise, you had the same FM instruments repeating through many games, most of them being terrible.

SNES sounded good when the musicians used simple, FM-esque instruments to get around the forced reverb and low sample ram size. Otherwise they ended up with muddy crap.

Also; there exists a high quality MOD player for the Megadrive that was used in a commercial game and sounded very faithful. In comparison, attempts at converting such tunes to the SNES using the hardware pcm synth ended up with awful, low-frequency tunes with forced reverb.

>> No.994737

>>994720
>Also; there exists a high quality MOD player for the Megadrive that was used in a commercial game and sounded very faithful.

I believe you're referring to Toy Story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cswdqhcXauY

Its title and cutscene music is basically sampled from an Amiga and sounds fantastic. Far better than their SNES equivalents, anyway. Unfortunately, the rest of the music of the game uses GEMS and sounds lousy.

>> No.994741

>>994720
In most cases it boiled down to:

Using GEMS driver (default Sega Driver): Shit results with very few exceptions
Using custom driver: Much better results.

These would be the cases of Sonic, Gunstar Heroes, Pulseman (SMPS), the Strike games (custom EA drivers), Shining Force (custom by Cube/Iwadare) and Streets of Rage, particularly 2. There's a really big variety of sound drivers in Genesis games.

SNES still wins in the end when it comes to power and features. And this is demonstrated with three words:
Tales of Phantasia.

>> No.994775

>>994193
>most multiplatform games had worse sound on it, but its own games sounded great.

Dittoing this. Also, Genesis sound could be fucked up a lot worse than SNES. Bad sound on the SNES was simply unimpressive, boring, or grating in a tepid way, like bad pop music. Bad sound on the Genesis was like an aggressive attack on the brain.

>> No.994907

Slightly off topic but I recommend Animal Style's chip tune album 'Cyboshellfish'. Made using a megadrive sound chip. lt's got that distinctive sound and skis up some great memories, especially if you remember Herzog Zwei.

>> No.994929

SEGA for beats, SNES for melodies.

>> No.994953

In Super Street Fighter 2, some themes sound better on Genesis (Ryu's for example) and some sound better on SNES (Dhalsim's for example)

>> No.994958

SNES was too close to the uncanny valley. It wanted to be real instruments but just sounded bad.

Genesis you could kind of tell what instruments the notes were supposed to be, but they were different and defined enough that I never went "That sounds like a shitty synth sample" it was just, the Genesis sounds.

I realize it's all very subjective. Both systems had amazing soundtracks. Mario Kart, Megaman X, Donkey Kong, then on the other side, Sonic 2, 3D Blast, Ecco the Dolphin, Ristar, holy shit.

>> No.994971

>>994775
>bad SNES music is boring, bad Genesis music is painful

So much this. A contest over good music would be close (and awesome), a contest over bad music would be a landslide (and torture).

>> No.994976

To me this is excellent genesis music (opening theme):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIwiJy4o6Y0

And as far as snes goes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehu8UysPU9I

>> No.994981

>>994976
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMH2O82tgLs

>> No.994982
File: 72 KB, 378x363, likemuch.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
994982

>>994981
Thank you very much!

>> No.994983

>>994958
There will never be a game this eerie and transportative http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLk04DibLWs

>> No.994991

>>994090
>x3
>shit
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>> No.995024

>>994983
God bless you, Ecco the Dolphin is, I think, my favorite 16 bit game

>> No.995034

here is a good basic comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4yUZqvjyT4

SNES vs. Genesis Aladdin.

Genesis Aladdin is generally held to be the better game, but does it also have the better tunes? I believe so.

>> No.995040

>>995034
The fucking midi horns on the SNES (and GBA soundchip) are offensively bad

>> No.995042

>>994958
The way I always think of it, the SNES sounds like a shitty attempt at an instrument.

The Genesis sounds like its own instrument

>> No.995057

You'd hope the SNES sound chip would be better than the Genesis sound chip so it at least has one technological advantage having come two years after the Genesis.

>> No.995065
File: 153 KB, 498x700, redzone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
995065

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9iWKzBe_zs

This game took the capabilities of the Genesis' sound chip and knocked it out of the park. Unforgivably difficult game though

>> No.995071

the genesis sounds like tinny dos shit most of the time, so i definitely prefer snes
(sor2 has the goat soundtrack though)

>> No.995074

>>994741
>SNES still wins in the end when it comes to power and features. And this is demonstrated with three words:Tales of Phantasia.

If we are demonstrating the power of the chip by cramming as many samples into the cart as possible, the Megadrive can also do that; and do quick adpcm encoding too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vPe452cegU

>> No.995076

>>995057
>what is mode7 scaling and rotation and transparency

>> No.995084

>>995076
gimmicks
>what is raw power

>> No.995090

>>995084
Genesis does with Nintendont

>> No.995102

>>995076
>implying Genesis couldn't already do all that shit
>implying add on chips count
>even then SEGA had the Virtua Processor chip, let alone the 32x and CD addons

>> No.995105

No SNES game comes close to the insane beats that Streets of Rage 2 had,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkPKskLWV5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoBHCiAhZFw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkupJY4rjZU

>> No.995114

>>995105
except earthbound maybe

>> No.995116

>>995065
Sounds a lot like the Jurassic Park Rampage Edition game. But I can't think of which theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1fF3DSErK4&list=PL334D909F9489D942

Good game, one of the few Jurassic Park games that didn't suck.

>> No.995130

>>995116
if you heard it before perhaps you heard it in Hitman Blood Money

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmhJmmtMPE0

since it was his work I guess Jesper Kyd has the right to recycle it

>> No.995137

>>995102
I'm not implying anything, I'm expressly stating that the Genesis is incapable of completely incapable of transparency and any scaling or rotation is done with software and not even close to the scale possible on SNES.

>>995084
What you call gimmicks, most people would in fact call technological advantages.

>>995090
That slogan was used before the SNES came out to quite successfully make NES look like grandpas games.

Now before you direct your ire at me, I'm a huge SEGA fanboy and am completely aware that the Genesis is fully twice as fast as the SNES. It did what it did very well and deserved to be the winner it was. Sega CD was even a good peripheral, especially considering how stupid Nintendo was with the Nintendo CD but 32x was a huge mistake. If they had just put all that energy into getting Saturn 100% backward compatible with Genesis and Sega CD things would have been very very different.

>> No.995138

>>995130
I think it just reminded me of it by being a really good example of that synthy sound good Genesis games produced.

>> No.995143

Sega Genesis had superior sound.

Road Rash 3
Streets of Rage 2 & 3
Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles

All prime examples of how bad ass the Genesis can sound.

>> No.995153

SNES for Orchestral, but there is something really great about the Genesis' funky beats.

Ecco 1+2 and Streets of Rage really pushed what the Genesis chip could do to the limits.

But Music is naturally biased; people will just align with what they grew up with and in the end it comes down to taste.

But seriously, don't dismiss the Genesis music SNES fans. Music like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Hb8JVP1lU is something we'll never get again. I definitely agree that the Genesis had some crappy soundtracks, but the ones where it hit home were the absolute best ones.

>> No.995156

>>994958
I agree with this. Ina technical sense, SNES was more impressive, but I'd rather just hear the music in an actual music format, since the SNES is trying it's hardest to emulate real sounds. The genesis, like the NES, is iconic because of the sound of the system. That said, only a few Genesis games used the chip to it's full potential. a bad Genesis soundtrack is earbleedingly awful.

>> No.995171

>Genesis vs SNES music comparison thread
>Assumning the Genesis is all about GEMS farts and ear rape
>Not posting this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShmM6VKDR4M&list=FLU-wglRl26ia8t-nxvPAvBg&index=57

>> No.995172

>>995138
ah okay

and as a couple of people said in this thread already I guess it also comes down to the composer willing to put some effort into it Kyd put effort into Red Zone's sound.. too bad probably not many people heard it as I don't believe the game was too popular

>> No.995178

>>995137
> any scaling or rotation is done with software and not even close to the scale possible on SNES
Complete bullshit, evidently you haven't played enough Genesis games to form a competent opinion.

>> No.995194

>>995178
As I said, I'm a huge Sega fanboy but good luck showing a Genesis game that scales and rotates like Pilotwings or F-Zero. It's just impossible for Genesis and to pretend that it does just gives Nintendrones a point to on which to make you and, worse, the Genesis look bad.

>> No.995198

>>995116
>>995130

>Posting music from Jurassic Park game from genesis
>GEMS disaster
>assuming is good music
>Not knowing this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN9-rrfOdRM&list=FLU-wglRl26ia8t-nxvPAvBg&index=56

and fucking this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vW3x0zGo7Y

and THIS:

http://youtu.be/FIEOs8Qd44E?t=13s

>> No.995202

>>995194
Seconded.

But seriously, we don't need your fancyass mode seven, we have Blast Processing

>> No.995204

>>995172
>>995138
Additionally, for the game in a general sense, it was an early example of what the Genesis was capable of overall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZKsQ09qOk4

The game is visually rather stunning, and unique. Showing off what the Genesis can do a full year before Vectorman came out.

The games technical MA rating and its "fuck you and die" difficulty, along with its general obscureness is probably what led it to not being as wildly popular as it should have been

>> No.995208

>>995178
have you played puggsy, that game has tons of scaling.

>> No.995217

>>995194
Try Panorama Cotton.

>> No.995218
File: 48 KB, 425x597, sega-tower-of-power.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
995218

>>994141
I see your castlevanias and raise you a tim follin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyEbu8cmMg

>> No.995227

>>995208
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YLQr-_misM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuSUjnHzAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXUHZxoMi8Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTtn390IKP4

>> No.995230

>>995194
This >>995217, and until you have all the facts kindly shut the fuck up.

>> No.995234

>>995202
Blast processing isn't even a thing, it was just the buzzword Sega used after SNES came out and side-by-side stills from magazines no longer were so overwhelmingly in their favor (SNES has some really beautifully chosen palettes) to get people to compare the raw speed Genesis runs at to the SNES. SNES could never run Sonic or even Gunstar Heroes and a lot of other Sega games. I don't know what Nintendo was thinking when they chose that processor but I guess it's just classic Nintendo to underpower their system, keep the price point low and rely heavily on their first and second party developers. It almost cost them their ass in the 90s but I guess it's a pretty safe bet since they'restill doing it today and they just chug along that way until one of the leaders gasses itself, which could very well be exactly what happens in the 9th gen.

>> No.995235

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_IJYc9t3vQ#t=21m59s
For fucks sake, guys.

>> No.995241

>>995234
That was the whole joke.

>> No.995242

>>995217
>>995230
>Being this willingly ignorant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0YkMU5nkgE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMf0ek_S9FY

>> No.995252

>>995242
>but muh pilotwings :DDD
Wow, a game that can do scaling at 20fps! What an amazing example of technological progress!

>> No.995259

>>995242
Even Space Harrier looks better than Pilotwings.

>> No.995272

>>995252
>>995259
>buh-buh-but it doesn't look as good or run as smooth

Moving the bar isn't a legitimate debate tactic. I agree with you that Genesis is cooler than SNES - including its music, which I think clearly ages better than all but the most carefully composed SNES music.

What I am proving to you is that the SNES possesses some limited technological advantages over the Genesis, namely hardware based scaling, rotation, and transparency. This is the same thing I said from the beginning.

>> No.995287

>>995272
>possesses some limited technological advantages over the Genesis, namely hardware based scaling, rotation, and transparency. This is the same thing I said from the beginning.

And you're wrong. We've provided examples, at this point I think you're just a troll.

>> No.995298

>>995287
If you think Cotton is demonstrating scaling and rotation even 1% of the scale of Pilotwings then all you're proving is that you don't know what scaling and rotation are.

You being ignorant doesn't make me a troll.

>> No.995353

>>995298
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNHlX5w9g1I

>> No.995359

>>995353
Looks great.

>> No.995383

>>995353
>mega cd

>> No.995385

>>995383
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZBulGZmC0M

>> No.995387

>>994351
Sunsoft were music wizards, no matter what system they used.

>> No.995389

I think it's safe to say Genesis wins by a landslide for everything, better graphics, games, effects and music.

>> No.995403

>>995353
>Tsking advantage of the enormous storage capacity of cd rom to store pre-scaled and pre-rotated sprites.

>>995359
I agree it looks great and really speaks for the creativity of the programmers to give players a game that simulates what SNES players are used to having in practically every game.

>>995385
>Software based scaling and rotation of extremely simple textures.

I'll give Puggsy an apparent 5% of the level of S&R as Pilotwings although it should be DQ'd for cheating. Sonic 3 is a good example of the 1% level that Genesis was capable of doing through sheer processing power.

Why do you guys insist on forcing me to discuss the one area where my favorite console falls short? Is this some kind of psychological torture you're inflicting on me?

>> No.995410

>>995403
>Tsking advantage of the enormous storage capacity of cd rom to store pre-scaled and pre-rotated sprites.
>Not knowing what the sega CD was all about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rObi13jlNy4

>> No.995417

>>995389
You incorrigible jackanapes, you.

>> No.995419

>>995410
I stand corrected that is sick as fuck and now on my buy list. My Sega CD library is mostly JRPGs.

>> No.995468
File: 35 KB, 525x481, 1329287578451.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
995468

>>995419
>that is sick as fuck and now on my buy list
I'm glad that's the case but you might want to look for an arcade stick aswell, shit is hard to maneuver without one.

>> No.995470
File: 1016 KB, 1584x1208, 6581r2_hq[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
995470

>>994074
SID

>> No.995483

i cant decide. i love the super hang on, streets of rage, and sonic the hedgehog ost, but i also love yoshis island, chrono trigger, and ff4 ost.

>> No.995550

>>995194
Ignore them. You said hardware scaling and rotation, and they are insisting that Genesis can do it.

>the dumbs
>into the trash it goes

>> No.995552

>>994235
There's a new format called SNSF. It has rips form Wario's Woods, Lost Vikings 1+2 and many more. But it is still wip and unstable, also the ww rip sounds like crap but the most others sound fine.

>>995470
Yes this is nice, especially when it comes from the original chip.

>> No.995562 [DELETED] 

>>995403
Fuck off you insufferable faggot.

>> No.995568

>>995550
We've named a ton of games with scaling and rotation you stupid fuck, and yet you idiots keep falling back on PILOTWINGS. Really?

LOL.

>> No.995572

>>995568
>scaling and rotation
hardware scaling and rotation

>> No.995574

>>995568
I want /v/ to leave.

>> No.995580

>>995572
The game is going through the hardware and producing the effects, why is that so hard to understand for you?

>> No.995582

>>995580
You really have no idea what you're discussing and should really just stop.

>> No.995587

>>995582
Or maybe you're just a nitpicking autist who always wants to be right. You were proven wrong, instead of acting like an immature child and flinging shit just accept it.

>> No.995590

Genesis could do some nice 3d pretty fast with extra chips,
http://youtu.be/fakahDr_P2c

or how about a stock genesis doing a pretty good job of running starfox http://youtu.be/UuYFmIEtLLk

>> No.995608

>>994074
they both suck compared to high-end PC soundcards of that era...

roland stuff could produce superior music, adlib/sound blaster stuff can do synthesised voice and "realistic" sound effects.
http://macgateway.com/featured-articles/sound-card-history/#4

>> No.995612

>>995608
have no fear, the mustard race is here!!!

>> No.995618

>>995608
PCs were like a billion million moneys back then and it actually made sense to buy a console

>> No.995624

>>995580
lol

>> No.995678

>>995612
>>995618
yeah, but you guys wanted to ask what was superior, amirite? not mid-low tier... that was the 16 bit era consoles. 32bit era was when PCs lost out big time in value for money. even PEE SEE snobs bought a saturn or a PS1

>> No.995691

>>995678
>yeah, but you guys wanted to ask what was superior, amirite?
Superior between two choices. Dayum, step up yo readin' game, mustard rayciss!

>> No.995704

It doesn't matter if Genesis had better or worse music at the end of the day.

The fact that it's inferior to SNES in every single way is what matters. Genesis kids were always scum and should have been exterminated when there was still a definite way to ID them.

Your shitty nigger console will never have Earthbound, F-Zero, Link to the Past, Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, Secret of Mana, Kirby's Super Star, Yoshi's Island, Mega Man X, or even mediocre shit like Donkey Kong Country.

No, you'll be stuck with garbage like Sonic, wrestling games, that fucking pac-man game with the hang glider, and some shitty Mario All Stars Esque version of Mega Man 1-3 with worse mechanic and slowdown. That slowdown is bullshit considering the Genesis had a faster CPU than NES.

What a pile of shit.

>> No.995709

>>995704
Oh You!

>> No.995721

>>995704
>including Final Fantasy VI on that list
Stop, you're making the SNES look bad

>> No.995723

>>995704
Stay mad N64 faggot, SEGA was always better than your shitty company constantly stuck a generation behind. Enjoy your rehashes.

>> No.995724

>>995709
Nah, man, the Genesis kids weren't weirdos.

It was the Master System kids. Anyone I knew who had a Master System was a weird little fucker. Grew up in a filthy home with chain-smoking parents, was usually enrolled in a few special education classes.

>> No.995749

>>995153
As far as orchestral goes, the Megadrive could pull off a kick ass harpsichord.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC2c-hyoRq8

>> No.995750

>>995723
What a are you talking about? N64 has even less good games than Genesis.

It was literally the genesis of it's Gen. a pile of shit with no games made for people who don't know shit about video games.

What games did N64 have huh? How many cartridges would a masterpiece like Final Fantasy 7 take up? 50? 60?

FUCK YOU

>> No.995751

>>995704
ecco 1&2, shadowrun, dynamite headdy, mega turrican, alien soldier, musha, comix zone, gunstar heroes, kid chameleon, x-men 2, sanic, phantasy star, ristar, warsong

>> No.995753

>>995751
>Here is my list of terrible games!

Kill yourself Segaylord

>> No.995754

>>995724
what was up with those weird ass master system kids to this day whenever i see a master system i feel dirty and half broken

>> No.995769

>>995753
>rusing this half heartedly

are you depressed/sleepdeprived/drunk/high??

>> No.995772

>>995754
Remember Sega CD kids? they were always rich kids. Some kid was showing my Night Trap and all I could think was that it wasn't actually a video game. I was 9 at the time. I just thought the whole idea was really stupid.

>> No.995773

>>995572
You actually can pull off hardware scaling and rotation to some degree with scanline interrupts.

check out Adventures of Batman & Robin, Vectorman, Comix Zone sega logo, the pirate ship with the ninjas in Streets of Rage 2, and I believe Gunstar Heroes did it too.

>> No.995785 [DELETED] 

>>995769
>ruse

>>>/v/

>>>/a/
>>>/n/
>>>/d/
>>>/s/
>>>/t/
>>>/a/
>>>/y/
>>>/out/

>> No.995791

To be fair to the Genesis' sound capabilities, the first model had the best and cleanest-sounding sound system and it got progressively shit with each hardware revision.

>> No.995804 [DELETED] 

>>995785
go to sleep man

>> No.995925

>>995071
I wish people would stop using the term GOAT for greatest of all time because usually goat means bad.

>> No.995973 [DELETED] 

Looks like /v/ finally found out about this board.

>> No.995995

>>995724
Note the non-American kids are exempt from this.

Here in the U.S., the only kid in school I knew who had a SMS would talk about going home to slap his mother for doing something he didn't like and going through therapy. He would also shove his friends.

I wish I were making this up.

>> No.996068 [DELETED] 

>>995973
Oh shut up. The console wars when these consoles were still around were far worse than /v/'s shit

>> No.996082

>>995724
>>995995
I never thought about it, but I only knew one kid with a SMS back in the day, and he was a weird little redneck fucker who would shoot neighborhood pets with a BB gun, tie cats together at the tail and throw them over power lines so he could watch them fight to death upside down.

But maybe that was just growing up in West Virginia.

>> No.996127

>sperging about graphic capabilities in a thread about the sound quality

Okay kids, back to /v/.

>> No.996136

a lot of awesome Genesis tracks in here i was unaware of. however i think some great SNES tracks are getting overlooked here. some memorable ones:
>youtube.com/watch?v=PJzedahyjXE (zeal island theme, schala's theme, basically anything from CT)
>Castlevania IV (youtube.com/watch?v=FaVM9MUp-lc&list=PL20C8B74AE58DD1FA)
>Megaman X ( youtube.com/watch?v=sipwbakD4F0 , spark mandrill theme)
>>FF VI, U.N. Squadron, Link to the Past, etc.

Nintendo worked with some legendary soundsmiths, but the SNES was better suited to many of those compositions. great tracks on both systems for sure. i've been missing out on some Sega goodness though

>> No.996168

>>995468
I have three and six button first party joysticks as well as several universal ones. After all, Genesis is about my favorite.

>> No.996186

>>995791
Didn't the first model only output mono?

>> No.996203

>>996186
It had a stereo minijack on the front with a volume slider. Just connect a Y-cable to it and you have stereo output to your TV.

>> No.996239

>>994164
This. They excelled in different ways, and I love listening to either one when done right.

>> No.996302

>>995995
>Note the non-American kids are exempt from this.
Maybe not.
I live in chile, why is this relevant you may ask? because you had to do a mandatory military training until a few years back and I was inside the unlucky group that saw the last of it, during that time I met a creep that had a master system. Two things he always was talking about was his console if he ever caught anyone talking about videogames and how cool it would be to go out to the real action. Also his breath was the worst thing you could imagine, I would say it smelled like shit but that would be offensive against feces, Just thinking back to it makes me sick.

>> No.996382

>>994141
That's probably one of the worst examples you could've picked.

Here's some better ones:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsefax53YP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8laT12p_Mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7RPY-oiDAQ

>> No.996414

>Mega Drive

I have a feeling that the only reason that these were popular is because niggers would steal them from other niggers.

Every single Mega Drive you've seen is actually the same one, it's just been stolen by niggers that many times so you run into it again

every Mega Drive is the same mega drive. there is only actually 1 in existence.

this is fact

>> No.996430

>>996414
But anon

There are at least 5 different models of the megadrive

>> No.996448

>>996382
>one of the worst examples
Hyperbole much? It was a launch window game with some amazing and varied music. ActRaiser was also launch window and is a good choice.

>> No.996590

Sega versus Nintendo thread? Come on, guys, things work out so well when we work together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFMsrHCFXj0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb4phZ6t9-M

>> No.996698

>>994141
Sega genesis - Streets of rage - recorded directly from the console
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JvmGKh2gEc&fmt=18

Not many things beat this. Not to mention the PCM Audio of the genesis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG1H_88Vmh0

>> No.996706

>>996698
disregard the 2nd link, it's a repost

>> No.996709

>>996590
No fair, the Genesis Super Metroid tracks were done by Gecko Yamori. No offense to Yuzoboy, but he is outclassed in this comparison IMHO.

>> No.996718

>>996709
Here, let me salt your apparent wound a lil more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOMW1KslAtk

>> No.996723

>>996718
Doesn't sound very good, and that's not Genesis output anyway.

Are you really trying to offend me? Yuzoboy is no Gecko Yamori synth master, he's all about mashups.

>> No.996838
File: 130 KB, 640x908, 586008_88191_front.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
996838

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG-6Ui-sz9c

this convinced me that the Mega Drive could do more than the SNES sound-wise

(great game as well)

>> No.996852

Anyone know how to convert .vgm files to midi?

i just bought a Yamaha Fm module with the same chip as the genesis and want to play some vidya music on it.

>> No.996853

Let's try a comparison with turrican
Credits:
http://youtu.be/I3_ZAK2JmKo

http://youtu.be/yYUwzPMO0bM

Level 1-1
http://youtu.be/xdY4EKAcW4Q

http://youtu.be/J6gW975XDwA

>> No.996870

The Lion King game proved to me that the Genesis/Megadrive had better sounding music. That games music all sounds like shit on the SNES compared to the Megadrive.

>> No.996879

>>994141
Castlevania on genesis was not that bad but kinda short.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKJsfwHObvw&list=PL01D23354DB6D47D3

Also can't see godlike Vectorman. It's a shame guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0iIZf9B8nU&list=PLECF4F436A5A30C98

Hitoshi Sakimoto. Someone hate I like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WKKH6OAyS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB-FMsdT7f0

And something less known.
Jewel Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaOlDwRyjjI
Dragon's Fury(Also the most fucked up pinball i've ever seen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvpGlbcrgEs
Thunder force VI (Destroys ears, you cant handle this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTQIiIKummw
Wolverine: Adamantium Rage (Legitamate drone metal. Game is shit, cover by Liefeld)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcV4lduB1uQ

Also at this point of time PC's was equipped with fucking pc speaker and it was pain in the ass to find Sound blaster furthermore force him to work with games. It was a lot more easy just to play early CD based consoles.

>> No.996881

I've never been able to like most SNES music I've heard. There's something about their sound chip that I really, really don't like. I like the melodies in the music I've heard from SMW, but they way the way it sounds bugs me in some aspects.

>> No.996895

>>996881
it's the reverb and low quality samples that do it for me, but, like any system, some examples shine better than others.

>> No.996905

>>996870
>The Lion King game proved to me that the Genesis/Megadrive had better sounding music. That games music all sounds like shit on the SNES compared to the Megadrive.

There's a reason for that. The Lion King (Mega Drive) had music by Matt Fucking Furniss, a master of the FM chip.

>> No.996915

>>994074 I always had segas so unfortuntly can't compare the two

>> No.996917

>>996915 plus sonic 3/knuckles best soundtrack ever for mega drive

>> No.996920

>>996905
This. Creating sounds on an FM synth is a pretty complicated thing, so it takes some special expertise to really make an FM synth shine.

>> No.996924

I sort of want to say I prefer the S-SMP to the Mega Drive's 2612. But then you have stuff like Langrisser II which was a better game on the SNES, but had pretty poor music.

YM2612:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gseAXqJyUKo

S-SMP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM7T5CFt_3Y

>> No.996932

SNES

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOgiLdykOQ

>> No.997413

>>996905
even tough utilizes the GEMS driver.

>> No.997439

>>995724
Yeah, look at JG Quintel. Regular Show just gets increasingly more bizarre with uncanny characters, but that's part of it's whole "Seinfeld with bossfights" episode recipe.

SuFami on the other hand brought us Gumball, from Glorious Nippon.

>> No.997447

>>997413
Shaun Hollingworth's engine is absolutely not GEMS.

>> No.997572 [DELETED] 

>>995156
>it's
>it's
>>995750
>it's
>>997439
>it's

Each of these should be its. It's and its are two different words. It's a really common mistake, but it drives me crazy. Learn the difference.

>> No.999353

I've been thinking: which snes game raised the bar with regards to bgm in an snes game?

It seems to me like most of the snes library, before Donkey Kong Country (late '94), mostly had simple beats and synth horns.

>> No.999390

>>994074
>SNES' S-SMP sampling-based audio chip, designed by Ken Kutaragi, aka, the "Riiiiidge Racer!" guy.

the "ridge racer guy" is Kazuo "Kaz" Hirao

>> No.999434

>>995218
this would be better with the original genesis & sega cd, also wasn't there an action replay for genesis?

>> No.999435

>>999390
>Hirao
*Hirai
OP's goof was already discussed.

>> No.999453

>>994991
SNES:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov_WaGNNUCw

Mega Drive/Genesis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-QKd2qE7eY

Excellent composition regardless, as was the case with the SNES X games in general, but Capcom never quite managed to figure out how to make either 16 bit console sound good in those days (with exceptions), unlike Konami.

>> No.999785

>>995590
>doing a pretty good job of running starfox
relative to not playing at all is completely different from 'doing a pretty good job' and 6-11 fps is not a 'pretty good job.' Even if it's a impressive feat for the hardware it's doing it's still failing at doing it well.

>The fact that it's inferior to SNES in every single way is what matters.
Except for the only area that matters, the games. I'll ignore the fact that the sound isn't worse just different though and it had more sprite versatility than the SNES.
Genesis had a somewhat more diverse library.

>Genesis had a faster CPU than NES.
Mhz myth

>> No.1000291

>>999785
Well I am wondering if the Genesis can have chips inside the carts or not, and if that build of Starfox done for the Genesis uses one, because Starfox on the SNES does use a chip.

>> No.1000324

>>1000291
They can. Virtua Racing has one.

>> No.1003138

>>995272
Later Megadrive games used software scaling and rotation, making Mode 7 pretty much an irrelevance.

That faster processor is a big advantage as it gives programmers more space to use software tricks.

>> No.1003140

>>995723
N64 had no SCART connection in Europe, whereas you could connect the Master System to SCART!
Dreamcast had VGA compatibility, meaning games could look almost HD quality.

> mfw Nintendo and their shitty RGB blurry cables.

>> No.1004318

I'm with those who say they prefer the Genesis/Mega Drive's Yamaha because it sounds more like its own instrument instead of just trying to emulate others.
That said, the SNES's versatility made for some of the greatest orchestral like scores in videogame history, but in most cases I'd rather just listen to real instrumental renditions of those scores (there are exceptions though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPinyngvL2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx9uLg6pYc0)

>>994105
>inb4 GEMS wasn't that bad bawwwwww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ7KXrj8s64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA9lCpdALAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0pe3gqS7HE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPC4wXguSjs

>> No.1004351

>>996852
Try looking around the software section here
http://vgm.mdscene.net/forum/index.php

>> No.1004408

>>995750
dude hes calling you an n64 fagget becaue obviously you grew up with that and only played SNES after the fact. Never got to experience the glory of the 16 bit war

>> No.1004916
File: 14 KB, 160x124, le_smug_qbert.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1004916

>>995704
>Pac-Man 2
>in any way bad
Confirmed for top-tier faggot.

>> No.1004932

That's like asking if I like distortion or clean guitar. It really depends on the use.

>> No.1004961
File: 226 KB, 254x357, awd.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1004961

I love both, but the Genesis could hold it's own musically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPcte3BlPw

SNES cannot into metal

>> No.1004980

>>1004318
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA9lCpdALAU

Holy shit, now I've got to play X-men2. Had the first one as a kid, but never owned Clone Wars.

>> No.1005064
File: 5 KB, 640x480, Player_-_GEMS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1005064

Why GEMS have such a shitty reputation ?
There is an image where you can see that the layout of the patch editor is quite ergonomic compared to the tiny LCD screen the Yamaha DXs have, it seems even better than the VOPM layout. Tommy Tallarico described how it works in an interview and it's seems to have been a pretty cool tool for its time :
>The tool plugged into the Genesis like a cartridge and connected to your PC which enabled me to tweak the audio chip sounds on the Genesis in real time and use the Genesis to record MIDI right onto my sequencer. So it was like I was using the Genesis just like I would use and synthesizer or sampler. Without that tool I would have been screwed!

I guess GEMS have a bad reputation because a lot of composers had trouble to design good sounds with FM synthesis, it's hard to master.

>> No.1005467
File: 24 KB, 804x726, GEMS screenshot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1005467

>>1005064

Supposedly GEMS didn't cover everything the YM2612 was capable of. As much as I like the sound driver, most games composed with GEMS tend to sound a certain way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9cJOb7FldM
Was GEMS able to make soft and non-abrasive music like this? Maybe it's the direction our American composers were taking with the software?
http://youtu.be/KWIodzabnzc

Nu Romantic Productions (Mark Miller and his team of musicians) for example, usually took after funk music. You'd be lucky to hear use of the Texas Instruments SN76489 in something besides drum cymbals.

Comix Zone has some nice PSG square waves in most of its music
http://youtu.be/2ES6pwVCgTg
This totally sounds like Nu Romantic music in the Sega Channel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T04bB6T6FgY

>> No.1005490

>>1004961

>Thunder Force

YES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_9E2MfD5s0

This level was bananas

>> No.1005526 [SPOILER] 
File: 176 KB, 577x768, taz-mania.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1005526

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Ue2Oar4Zg

>> No.1005584
File: 45 KB, 482x263, capture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1005584

>>1005467
Looking at that. Gems could make any sound you had. If what tallarico said was true for recording real time midi, if parameters had midi input as well, then it was more than capable of producing pretty much any sound you wanted period as well as sequencing it roughly real time. He doesn't specify how/if it quantizes at specific timing/rate though. But the the algorithm setting in that screenshot sets the YM2612 operator order. In fact, even with the YM2612 you can get some pretty accurate sounds for things like harps plucking.

So... yeah given that info, gems is not the reason anything was shit. These are the same available parameters gems seems to have and it's more than capable of allowing you to specify the paramters. It's more likely they had incompetent patch developers/ignorant of how FM worked or pressed for time/didn't care/actually thought it sounded good. Seriously, I can get a smooth sound of it without really knowing what I'm doing by ear fairly quickly and just tweaking around.

I almost get the impression it might be that they hired non musical people and they mucked around and thought it sounded good enough. If you let people new to synths/sequencers at a sequencer, they'll produce pretty awful things and be fairly proud until you wait them out then replay it back for them for them to realize how shit it sounds.

>> No.1005612

>>1005584
>These are the same available parameters gems seems to have and it's more than capable of allowing you to specify the paramters.
>So... yeah given that info, gems is not the reason anything was shit.

If the YM2612VST is more capable of of allowing you to specify the parameters than GEMS is, then that means GEMS didn't cover everything the YM2612 was capable of.

Right? I think you contradicted yourself somewhere.

>> No.1005619

Saturn and PC-98 own all of you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP1UXsSz8Uc

>> No.1005648

>>1005612
Which features the YM2612 was capable of that wasn't covered by GEMS ?
The sample playback capabilities are covered because Tallarico made his soundtracks with GEMS, so now I can't think of a feature that could have been not available and which would prevent most composers to make good tunes.

Maybe most composers made their songs with presets, and the presets sucked, just my two cents.

>> No.1005665

>>1005648
>Which features the YM2612 was capable of that wasn't covered by GEMS ?

When you said "These are the same available parameters gems seems to have and it's more than capable of allowing you to specify the paramters."

Did you mean to say it allowed more control than GEMS does? What I'm trying to ask you is if you feel that you have more control and a much wider range using the VST than you do GEMS? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you have all the cords necessary for listening to what you made in the program right? I loaded it in DOSBox but can't really hear anything.

>> No.1005676

>>999353
Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, DKC, Super Metroid, Actraiser and Yoshi's Island maybe.

>> No.1005702

>Right?
If it did, and I didn't say it did. I said it seems to be as far as I can tell the same options. So, no I didn't contradict myself. I said what I meant and meant what I said.
Everything in that gems screenshots shows parameters for all four operators and algorithmic settings which accounts for pretty much all of the instrument timbre and tone barring the specified midi notes/sequencing information.

>>1005665
>When you said
He didn't say that. I did.

>Did you mean to say it allowed more control than GEMS does?

No. I mean to say it's 'more than capable' of an instrument. As in, it presents no outstanding challenge to producing instruments that sound. In fact, it's even a little clearer than the VSTi parameters in that it shows the operator envelopes.

I was saying that I think it has the exact same options more or less, excluding the external programs host/mixer which obviously allows for some far more complex abilities. But taken as is with nothing on it you can produce perfectly decent sounds. I don't have the gens program but comparing with the vsti, assuming it accurately emulates the sound and the parameters do what gens does accurately. Then yeah gems should be perfectly capable in any musicians hands with the knowledge and/or time.

>> No.1005710

>>1005702

Oh well, thanks anyway.
I'm totally perving out over this stuff here
http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/1511/gems-sega-megadrive-game-sound-engine-dev-kit-released/

>> No.1005714

>>1005665
I was not the anon you were talking to, but he wanted to say that this VSTi seems to have the same available parameters GEMS have, thus, GEMS was not limited in terms of tweakability, and so if the music made with it sucked, it was the fault of the guy who programmed it.

Anyway, it seems that no one with a GEMS cartridge have posted something on the internet detailing all the features it has, so the word that GEMS sucks is spreading, but no one has explained why it sucks precisely.

>> No.1005732
File: 20 KB, 207x224, 1362031819805.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1005732

>>1005714
>so the word that GEMS sucks is spreading, but no one has explained why it sucks precisely.

While we do have a library of American Sega Genesis games as basis for this argument, what if the problem simply was no Japanese person came, sat down, and made music in the thing

>> No.1005736

>>1005710
As an example - http://www.qfpost.com/file/d?g=xOoBe9c2h
I did that with three channels worth. I haven't really mucked with the VSTi that much so I'm not sure how to swap channels and instruments. But I used three versions and kept it to only three instruments, might be able to knock one channel for the delay effect off if I knew what I was doing. That's 5-8 minutes of me fucking around, using only the parameters shown in the VSTi which correspond to the gems picture. No other effects, no other instruments, just YM2612. Modulating other shit mid might be trickier on a genesis perhaps, but to bitch that gems only produces harsh sounds is outright false.

>> No.1005740

>>1005732
It's not an issue of someone being Japanese. There are considerable american and european musicians who have fucked with synthesizers during that time. It would be on par. I'm guessing it's just because they didn't budget time or money or care about the music.

>> No.1005745

>>1005736
That link might be fucked up. Doesn't seem to want to download for me. Not sure where to upload the shit. Since fags scummed all the file sites.

>> No.1005750

>>1005745
It works for me

>> No.1005754

>>1005750
Well that's nice I guess. I dunno I uploaded it elsewhere. Trouble uploading, auto-spam filtered as spam even though it's not. Uploading it's far more difficult than making it.

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