Why are most Mega Man games mediocre?

[Anonymous No.9922084]

The standout titles require dexterity and tactics when dealing with enemies, that is you actually internalise the presence of enemies. However, in most MM games you can just keep going forward without needing to react to the defenceless, useless enemies who are effortlessly destroyed on sight.

With how much these games recycle assets, you'd think aggressive enemies might carry over more often, but no...

Also, one thing I really love about 1 and X1 is that the boss rush is spread out across the castle levels instead of breaking the pace right before the final boss. Why don't more Mega Man games do this??

[Anonymous No.9922085]

>>9922084
they stopped being good to me after x5 and got progressively worse after x2

[Anonymous No.9922112]

>>9922084
I agree to you about the boss rush rooms, though I wouldn't say they are mediocre. I thoroughly enjoyed most of them, especially the music.

[Anonymous No.9922148]

>>9922084
Because it's the same game released 30 times and peaked very early on

[Anonymous No.9922347]

>>9922084
>Also, one thing I really love about 1 and X1 is that the boss rush is spread out across the castle levels instead of breaking the pace right before the final boss.
This is patrician-tier taste. I have never heard anyone else mention this, probably because they have only played Classic 2, the objective worst and "most different" game in the series despite its popularity.

[Anonymous No.9922406]

>>9922084
>t 1 and X1 is that the boss rush is spread out across the castle levels instead of breaking the pace right before the final boss.
X1 made the boss rush like that as a reference to the original game.
All the other rooms with teleporters are a reference to 2 and how it became a standard later, much like Ocarina of Time set a bunch of standards for the Zelda franchise that remain to this day.
> However, in most MM games you can just
Newer games don't have higher difficulty thresholds because that allegedly "scares away newer players", something gamejournos and anti-videogame people use as an argument to demand difficulty levels for everything with the excuse of accesibility.

[Anonymous No.9922410]

>>9922084
The sad reality is that these games hardly had the market. The West wasn't THAT hyped about Mega Man past around X2, while Japan hardly cared about action games much past NES altogether (though X1 sold alright there, not big but ok). It was a series that was too too bright and anime to appeal to the Americans and yuros, but wasn't a JRPG so it wouldn't get the Japanese weebs. I mean, Rockman EXE sold more than the whole series before it combined (the GBA ones sold 3.5 mln units in Japan alone; the entire MMX series, from MMX1 to 8, sold just 1.5 mln in the region).
So… Capcom simply kept making MM games on low budget, likely with some B-team just to milk it as long as it turns profit. Why bother?
And the NES games past 3 were already being made when SNES was a thing, it was clear they weren't quite A-level games like MMX1. "Just keep making those" was the strategy Capcom adopted for MM, almost worked until they truly shat the bad with MMX7, and MMX8 was simply too late for this kind of game.

[Anonymous No.9922418]

>>9922410
>British videogame "journalism"
Lol

[Anonymous No.9922423]

>>9922418
'ate Mega Man
simple as

[Anonymous No.9922426]

>>9922423
KEK
Post more

[Anonymous No.9922435]

>>9922410
The need these fags have to prove they're adults and masculine is bordering on parody.

[Anonymous No.9922460]

>>9922426

[Anonymous No.9922464]

>>9922426
Sadly I think that's all I have. Hope someone has MMX4-6 reviews, or even better 7 & 8. I bet the brits went nuclear on these games

[Anonymous No.9922487]

>>9922410
>Capcom simply kept making MM games on low budget
How is Mega Man such a respected and influential franchise despite being milked to death with low budget game after low budget game?

[Anonymous No.9922532]

>>9922084
>With how much these games recycle assets
>how much
Mega Man games rarely recycle assets, outside of a couple staple enemies and the core MM graphics.

[Anonymous No.9922536]

>>9922532
Staple enemies that are somehow less threatening in later titles

[Anonymous No.9922538]

>>9922084
>Why are most Mega Man games x
Because they're the same game with a new paintjob

[Anonymous No.9922547]

>>9922418
Good to know that video game journalists were always retarded and it's not just a modern thing.

[Anonymous No.9922554]

>>9922547
Good to know that journalists were always retarded and it's not just a modern thing*

[Anonymous No.9922591]

>>9922084
You dont get it, the appeal is going fast, the enemies being weak or not is irrelevant, its about knowing what weapon kills every enemy in one hit and then being efficient.

[Anonymous No.9922594]

>>9922084
If you actually think that most Megaman games are medicore at best, then fuck off and play your Castlevania, Animal crossing, or current year playstation moviegames.

[Anonymous No.9922672]

>>9922406
>X1 made the boss rush like that as a reference to the original game.
And that's not the only reference to MM1 that X1 one has in it.

[Anonymous No.9922679]

>>9922547
>>9922554
It definitely is not, you're right. Sounds extreme, but they are literal propagandists, not their preferred term of journalists.

[Anonymous No.9922689]

>>9922672
Like?

[Anonymous No.9922720]

>>9922084
>in most MM games you can just keep going forward without needing to react to the defenceless, useless enemies who are effortlessly destroyed on sight
The reason this is present in a lot of classic series games is that Mega Man 2 has that trait (at least on the "normal" difficulty) and it's the most popular classic series game. Most people can only deal with braindead "hold right to win + brute force bosses with E-tanks" design, look at how many people dislike Mega Man & Bass for example, a game that will punish you hard if you try to do that.

[Anonymous No.9922737]

>>9922084
Oh ZoomZoom

[Anonymous No.9922869]

>>9922547
They just dropped their collective masks in 2014, and now they still wonder why everybody hates them

[Anonymous No.9922876]

>>9922460
>Lifespan: A weekend

[Anonymous No.9922890]

>>9922487
>How is Mega Man such a respected and influential franchise despite being milked to death with low budget game after low budget game?
The formula worked pretty fine since 2 and Capcom simply had to make some adjustments between games
>>9922720
> Mega Man 2 has that trait (at least on the "normal" difficulty) and it's the most popular classic series game
Part of MM2's appeal is the fact that it had Metal Blade, the most powerful weapon in the entire franchise
Also, MM2 was at times unforgiving if the player wasted ammo, specially with the 4th Wily stage boss and the last boss, where running out of the specific weapon meant that you had to get a game over to try again.

[Anonymous No.9922908]

>>9922594
>fuck off and play your Castlevania
oh no, how will I cope

[Anonymous No.9922937]

>>9922423
this made me laugh so hard I woke the baby up
now my mom is mad at me

[Anonymous No.9922947]

>>9922435
Brits in the 90s seemed really edgy, just about any time I hear anything about them or their perception of anything from the time. Edgelords for sure, don't know if that's a standard cultural thing for them or just that they were that way in the 90s.

[Anonymous No.9922978]

>>9922423
>X3
Well deserved.

[Anonymous No.9923191]

Quantity over quality. After 3, most of them are very forgettable. They aren't even bad games, just average platformers.

[Anonymous No.9923305]

>>9922536
Absolutely nothing can escape power creep

[Anonymous No.9923325]

>>9922594
Sing me the virtues of X5

[Anonymous No.9923326]

>>9922084
and here I am years later still waiting for Megaman Corrupted to be finished.....

[Anonymous No.9923329]

>>9922737
>admitting zoomers are better at old games than you

[Anonymous No.9923341]

>>9923329
You goofy

[Anonymous No.9923376]

>>9923341
So when the game has nonexistent encounter design, you're saying that scares away zoomers? True millennial patrician taste is preferring MM6?

[Anonymous No.9923458]

>>9922084
Well, I’ve never played the original series, but speaking for the X series most of those games are mediocre! I’d say that the SNES entries (X1-X3) haven’t aged well and are very boring and that X4 barely makes the cut of a solid Capcom game. And it passes as a good Megaman game, I’ll give it that. But where the series really shines is in X6. Although it can be a bit cluttered and even confused with itself at times, it’s pretty solid in terms of best boss fights, such as High Max, Dynamo, and Gate. It has short levels, pretty easy mavericks and even Sigma isn’t too hard. But it’s a cluster for sure. The replied system is amazing, and level design is improved from the slow pace of X5. The nightmare system is janky, hence being a “nightmare,” so I’m not complaining. And last, the story is good.

I’d say X 8 comes seconds in terms of quality and then X5 for sheer epic was in the story department. Those 3 games aren’t mediocre. But X4 feels the most arcade like so perhaps that’s why some prefer it over the later entries.

You can argue with me but X1-X3 feel clunky, and I thank god I never played them nor aquired “nostalgia goggles” for them, cause I think they all kind of suck.

[Anonymous No.9923461]

>>9923458
ChatGPT-kun...

[Anonymous No.9923516]

>>9922084
Mega Man ends up majority mediocre because it doesn't really go anywhere, gameplay-wise. Capcom won't let any series break free of seemingly intended design lineage.

The jump from OG to X was significant because the relative wealth of new movement options radically changed how each stage could be approached, as well as designed. There being more collectables besides weapons and Subtanks helps as well. But since then, there hasn't really been another big gameplay jump for the brand that itself wasn't part of a completely different design ethos. You could say X to Zero (series) counts for this gameplay jump, but Zero's gameplay is really just a collection of tweaks to existing tweaks, rather than a full on evolution.

After Capcom had started X, which was a logical evolution of the series, they then went on to also make 7. Granted, it was on a super short time frame that should make the game an achievement just for existing, but a consequence of this is that 7's existence quietly set a rule in place: OG was defined gameplay style, and X another.

The biggest reason Mega Man is stuck in perpetual mediocrity, is because the Mega Man fanbase are outright hostile towards any new approaches to the gameplay. X took a risk in trying to make itself 3D with X7, and the persistently negative fan reaction has basically told Capcom that Mega Man CANNOT be a 3D game. Period. It will never be accepted. If the design of 11 is evidence of how Capcom views fan expectations, then even mild deviations in the OG formula suggests that even the slightest of breaks aren't good ideas.

Mega Man is caught in a no-win scenario, and that is why it is stuck in mediocrity. The fans own the franchise's legacy, and as long as they aren't willing to push the envelope with their own ideas, Capcom will probably never feel confident in trying new ideas themselves.

[Anonymous No.9923528]

>>9923516
>X took a risk in trying to make itself 3D with X7
Dude, the mission statement of the X7 project was to make a 2D game with the camera behind you. Mega Man Legends meanwhile was an honest 3D game

[Anonymous No.9923563]

>>9923528
>Mega Man Legends meanwhile was an honest 3D game
Mega Man Legends is so disconnected from the series that it could've been a completely different IP altogether, and it probably would've done better if it were. The only things it has in common with the series norms are a few names, and the fact Volnutt wears blue and has an arm cannon that he shoots ovals from.

Legends was so disconnected from the norm that Capcom staff were uneasy about developing Legends as THE 3D Mega Man game when Inafune pitched the idea to them.
Why? Because it wasn't a 3D Mega Man game, to them. It was something different altogether.

[Anonymous No.9923565]

>>9922084
Because they aren't, they're simply operating on a similar design sense as Mario or Sonic games rather than, say, some of the harder Castlevania's or a Ninja Gaiden game. You CAN bruteforce the game, but if you want to master it, you will have to learn a ton of things. Also, 2 and 3 are some of the hardest of the classic series due to how untested they are. They're easy to bruteforce, but good luck mastering stuff like Doc Robot Quick or Wood. That said, what you mention does apply to some games even when you master them: 5 in particular is incredibly mindless even when you want to master it. People also hate the later X series, but I personally love some of it and I certainly wouldn't say those don't have aggressive enemies, though you mention X1 and while that game is incredibly well made, there's barely anything aggressive in it, most enemies and even bosses are pretty easy to deal with.

Also, because 2 is popular. I personally don't like the spread out type either, as both fortresses that have it (1 and X1) fall off after the first stage and devolve into generic enemy rooms, refights and a bland fight at the end.

[Anti JETard No.9923579]

>>9922084
I hate megaman with passion.

[Anonymous No.9923939]

>>9922487
I guess people simply learned to overlook the bad games, and fewer people actually played those, almost no one played MMX7 and in general the attention to the series kind of declined after SNES. Then the series also had a decent resurgence with MMZ to make you forget MMX5-8 existed; then another popular resurgence with MM9 and 10.
In other words, not many were disappointed by the "bad" MM games because not many cared to begin with. There wasn't the "big letdown" moment in Mega Man when a hyped game got negative reaction, like eg Street Fighter V, Marvel vs Capcom Infinite, Sonic 2006, etc. Ironically, Mighty No.9 was way more "disappointing" than any MM game, because it actually built up enough hype and expectations.

[Anonymous No.9924223]

>>9922410
>>9922423
Is it just Charlie Brooker or are they all like this?

[Anonymous No.9924234]

>>9922084
To each their own. It has a formula and it works for me. It also helps that the design is cool and music is almost always good.

[Anonymous No.9924265]

>>9922410
Sometimes I read the shitposting lately that jrpg was a dirty word and wonder what the fuck they were talking about

Then I remember shit like this and the X-Play Baten Kaitos clip

[Anonymous No.9924394]

>>9922487
>such a respected and influential franchise
Its not, and Im a MM fan

[Anonymous No.9924621]

>>9923939
I believe that Megaman Universe could have been this series' equivalent to SF4/Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite, but then Keiji Inafune quit and the project died (hopefully). He was too insistent on westernizing the series back then, and I believe that desire was carried over to Mighty No. 9.

[Anonymous No.9925026]

>>9922084
Better than Mega Man.

[Anonymous No.9925167]

the made them annually. it only makes sense that the quality is all over the place. there's seven megaman X games but there's only three good ones (1 2 and 4)

[Anonymous No.9925256]

>>9925026
Astro Boy is even more better if it's porn

[Anonymous No.9925278]

>>9922410
I hate journos of the 90s more than I hate modern journos. Holy fucking shit why were they on a crusade to ruin gaming until it was nothing but orange tinted deserts and angry dudes

[Anonymous No.9925285]

>>9922869
Nine fucking years later, and the lugenpresse is still asshurt that the peasants dared to question them.

[Anonymous No.9925310]

>>9923563
Mega Man is about two things:
Copying famous movies and anime
Holy fucking shit I love technology.

Classic:
Copies Astroboy.
Lots of love for big robotic designs
X:
Copies 80s mecha anime and Star Wars
Lots of love for robotic weapons
Legends:
Copies Castle in the Sky
Lots of love for daily technology (appliances) and vehicles
(Z copies more star wars and 90s mecha. ZX copies Kamen Rider. Network is more original but still takes a lot from digimon and similar.)

Also do you understand how absurd it is that you decry fans being closed off to change and then is closed off to change yourself?

[Anonymous No.9925357]

>>9923516
You can only change the core gameplay of a series if the series is in good health. Name one time a revival with drastic changes worked in gaming, its all Nuts and Bolts all the way down.
And that is understandable, the drive right now is "more of that, and better". When people say they want a new Mega Man X, they want a good quality Mega Man X title, it's foolish to want to invent something new while not delivering even the core experience.
The best thing Capcom could do with the series is to deliver a well made, no issues, experience. A good X game, a revival of Legends with modern adventure style gameplay (botw-like), a Metroidvania like ZX but with more variety and no complicated plot.

[Anonymous No.9925359]

>>9922084
Because the lost passion for it. Play megaman maker instead.

[Anonymous No.9925434]

>>9922594
>then fuck off and play your Castlevania
i will, thanks, while you megamanlets continue to cope and sneed

[Anonymous No.9925530]

>most MM games you can just keep going forward without needing to react to the defenceless, useless enemies who are effortlessly destroyed on sight.

which MM games are these?

[Anonymous No.9925634]

>>9922410
Who was even talking about market shares? Capcom was going to shit these sequels out regardless of how much previous entries sold, as evidenced by MM2, 3 & 7 each being made in less than 4 months.
Anyways, minus the slew of budget sequels you can make the same exact argument for Metroid.
>>9923326
Those spics are never going to finish it. I've seen more than a few fangames like this, where the devs occasionally try to stoke interest while also refusing to release a single demo.

[Anonymous No.9925721]

Mega man was the first game I fell in love with when I got into retro gaming in 2005. It pretty much represents 8-bit gaming for me personally, I don't know why but it seems perfect. Maybe because the whole robot-type theme (technology) and modern setting also may have reflected a daydream about what gaming may have meant during the late 80s. Also credits due to capcom, they have always known how to make things look colorful and super appealing to make them stand out from the rest, at least back then.

The games besides the classic continuity are well made too imo, though the aforementioned allure is not related as much in that regard. They've always been guilty of milking too much, but overall they have had good quality control.

[Anonymous No.9925927]

>>9925310
I was talking strictly about gameplay, the thematic inspirations are irrelevant.
At the same time, you also missed that I said Capcom was limiting themselves detrimentally by not allowing their series to develop mechanically beyond some arbitrary limits they impose on themselves. Legends was barely recognizable as a Mega Man game to many, hence the low sales. Even X7 outperformed it, sales-wise! But still, X7 ends up slammed so heavily that barely anybody can call the game just mediocre without someone chiming in with some 'correction' of "actually it is the worst game ever made, dumbass".

>>9925357
"A good quality Mega Man X title" is something that anyone can dream of, but is very difficult to actually put together. Mega Man as a brand has been trapped in its past for so long, that the only way it can ever really hope to move forward in a big way is to have the next game be dramatically different. Yet every time that a subseries has tried to branch out in some way, the result is generally taken as more or less a personal insult to the fans, see X7. It is to the point that Capcom is hesitant to even go with the idea of JUST making a Mega Man game for fear of the backlash they'll get for even trying.

As I said, what do the fans want? If Capcom's design for 11 is any indication, it is literally nothing different than what they're already used to. The fact the fans have not been able to nail down what is wrong with Mega Man other than it being vaguely "bad" since specific contentious points in time says loads about the hill Capcom has to climb on any future project.

No-win scenario, as I said.

[Anonymous No.9926745]

>>9925634
>Who was even talking about market shares?
I mean that Mega Man didn't have a very large demographic to appeal to past 4th gen, neither in the West nor in Japan. It's not about "shares", it's just about having enough people that care about your games.
Same thing happened to most 2D action series, really—Japan didn't care much about action, while the West only wanted 3D. For example, Contra ruined their 3D transition, like many other 2D series. Castlevania is perhaps the only one that managed to pull off both 2D (only through pure cult fame) and more or less 3D (relevant in the West), even though they basically had to switch genres.
>Capcom was going to shit these sequels out regardless of how much previous entries sold, as evidenced by MM2, 3 & 7 each being made in less than 4 months.
you don't make games at a loss, do you? selling 100-300k barely makes much profit, especially when the MM games already reused engines.
>Anyways, minus the slew of budget sequels you can make the same exact argument for Metroid.
What's your point? Metroid wasn't average. They made few games. Then they went with 3D FPS, that was what the West wanted, but Japan didn't buy it. Why Metroid slowly died? Because it was never that big to begin with. Metroid gets more awards from critics than it actually gets sales. It's not a casual-friendly game and too drab and boring for kids, while not edgy and cool enough for teens.
The biggest hype it achieved was with MP1, and it went downhill from there. MP2, 3, Other M all sold less and less. It only was popular in the Western market, but never had the appeal of dude bro multiplayer shooters, and clearly tendies are not the ones who like shooters to begin with. It was weird since it didn't quite appeal to anyone.
With ever-increasing budgets, especially for FPS, it was clear that for MP4 Nintendo would need to dump a ton of money into a franchise that had steadily declining sales. I guess they simply realized it wasn't worth it.

[Anonymous No.9926902]

>>9922084
Mega Man has at least 6 good games

That's a lot, most franchises don't have that many