/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9881714]

What's the verdict on SA1 and SA2?

[Anonymous No.9881723]

Pleb filters

[Anonymous No.9881727]

SA1:based
SA2:cringe

[Anonymous No.9881750]

>>9881714
All things considered, they are better than any Sonic game on the Saturn (or NiGHTS for that matter). Personally I find them to be great, still some of the strongest entries in the series. Both have solid graphics, music, and gameplay, even if Meme the Cat is a little forced.

[Anonymous No.9881754]

>>9881714
SA1: Based
SA: DX: Ultra Based
SA2: Critically acclaimedand based

[Anonymous No.9881757]

>>9881714
SA2: Great
SA2 Battle: Cringe

[Anonymous No.9881763]

I really like both of these games, on Dreamcast, GameCube, PC. Just fun stuff. But I do find it funny that sa1 is the absolute culmination of everything sonic team had been trying to do on Saturn. They had to make burning rangers and nights and cancel multiple projects to ultimately boil all of it down to this game. And even though I love it, it's jank entertainment. That's the funny part, all of that fucking work to make this game in particular

[Anonymous No.9881765]

>>9881757
I never understood this opinion, it's literally the same game with some slight differences. I do prefer Dreamcast in general, though

[Anonymous No.9881770]

>>9881757
>>9881765
>some slight differences

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NWAbtnfy2Y

[Anonymous No.9881774]

>>9881765
>with some slight differences

They aren't really "slight". GameCube version literally made some things worse and changed some levels to less playable variant.

I LOVED playing Security Hall on Dreamcast as a kid, it was fun. It's insufferable in Battle.

[Anonymous No.9881779]

>>9881765
The autism sonic meme is real dude

[Anonymous No.9881782]

>>9881774
What about the steam version?

[Anonymous No.9881787]

>>9881782
It's a port of GameCube version, I think? So same shit, maybe even worse, knowing Sega

Dreamcast version stays on Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.9881831]

>>9881770
It's literally the same game.
>But muh lighting is slightly off in this one cutscene in the GC version and sonic's ears are rounder instead of spiky. This proves the dreamcast version is clearly superior
Literal autism

[Anonymous No.9881968]

SA1 is a mixed gem.
SA2 is a much worse game and I loathe the cult around it.

[Anonymous No.9881980]

>>9881757
its the same fucking thing except Battle has a more complete Chao garden and better 2p mode, thats literally it unless you are autistic

[Anonymous No.9882004]

SA1 = Mario 64
SA2 = Linear bore

[Anonymous No.9882041]

>>9881831
Dumbass

[Anonymous No.9882042]

>>9882004
>he didn't find the lost Chao

[Anonymous No.9882154]

SA1 is awesum and unique, I don't like 2 much but it's a linear 3D platformer and there were not a lot of those so I respect it

[Anonymous No.9882163]

>>9882042
the
what

[Anonymous No.9882170]

>>9881714
SA1 is fun so far, though the controls are VERY twitchy. SA2...I dunno, maybe it's just me but I kinda hate it so far. I have the GC port admittedly but there's problems that seem built into the core design of the game. Grinding having the "stay balanced" gimmick seems unnecessary, though that could be me being a Heroes babby. Also the Tails/Eggman sections are fucking miserable IMO.

[Anonymous No.9882201]

Used to play Pumpkin Hill during Halloween.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1snZKUB36SE

[Anonymous No.9882204]

1 is jank 2 is still pretty good

[Anonymous No.9882214]

>>9882163
The levels in SA2 actually have a lot of hidden areas to explore, especially in the Chao missions. SA2's Chao Garden in general requires exploration, especially if you want specific animals like bats, kappas, dragons, or unicorns

[Anonymous No.9882219]

>>9882170
>Also the Tails/Eggman sections are fucking miserable IMO.

Why does so many people have issues with mech shooting stages? Just curious, what is actually the problem.
I fucking loved shooting shit as a kid

> go to Weapons Bed stage
> start fireworks
> watch your score skyrocketing up with bonus points

> go to Cosmic Wall stage
> same but you have a fucking moon jump which is even more ridiculous if you have hover upgrade

It's rad.

[Anonymous No.9882229]

>>9882219
Based on how anon phrased it, it sounds like he probably isn't that far into the game yet. I agree Cosmic Wall is super fun though. Tails levels also probably have some of the best music in the game, especially Rumbling HWY and On the Edge. Now I kind of want to play these games again lol

[Anonymous No.9882261]

>>9881774
Mind explaining what's different about that stage? Curious to try the original version now

[Anonymous No.9882286]

>>9881714
SA1: an honest competitor to SM64
SA2: god tier game

My wife has autism and we bonded over Chao Garden in middle school. You can’t take this away from me no matter how much you hate the edgy Shadow storyline

[Anonymous No.9882302]

>>9881831
>sits down at desk
>turns on computer
>waits for it to boot up
>opens web browser
>types in 4channel.org (lol who the fuck would do that)
>navigates to retro video game section
>enters a thread where in sonic adventure is being discussed
>SHOCKED at displays of zealous autism exhibited when discussing how pointy or round Sonic's ears are and what the textures on the street signs say
how. it's like going to the amish and being shocked that there are horse and buggies everywhere

[Anonymous No.9882360]

>>9882286
Based and wholesome-pilled

[Anonymous No.9882373]

What's the verdict anon has autism?

[Anonymous No.9882376]

Great games

[Anonymous No.9882380]

>>9881714
SA1

[Anonymous No.9882382]

>>9882376
nobody played SA2 on dreamcast, only gamecube

[Anonymous No.9882403]

The vmu was really cool with the chaos. It was limited but the idea was super solid. I wish they had done something with the gba link cable so you could take your chao around. The sonic advance garden was neat but it was only in one of the 3 games and it was a little lame to tell the truth

[Anonymous No.9882470]

>>9882382
>nobody played SA2 on dreamcast

I did, so your statement isn't entirely true.

[Anonymous No.9882496]

>>9882470
You're a fucking nobody, so it stands true regardless

[Anonymous No.9882515]

>>9881714
I actually think the speed stages were an improvement from SA1, and the linearity didn't hurt. The scoring system is finely tuned and its very rewarding grinding for A ranks on the speed stages. That said, the shooting & emerald hunt stages were much better in SA1.
The sad thing is that every port other than SA2B is shit. Most of the SA2 ports have analog deadzone issues that make turning very jerky and completly ruin grinding. SA1 never got a single good port.

[Anonymous No.9882521]

>>9882496
I am the player and that goes to the overall statistics. But you may seethe further to give your opinion some impression of value.

[Anonymous No.9882526]

>>9881714
Mediocre early 3d games. They could be much better but the camera and the controls often ruin them. If you can look past that and/or you are a sonic fan, they are pretty good, but there are better games.

[Anonymous No.9882531]

>>9882214
oh, something gay. alright then

[Anonymous No.9882537]

>>9882526
This bug isn't even in the original DC version which is the only version you should play

[Anonymous No.9882543]

>>9881831
Rope yourself moron

[Anonymous No.9883516]

>>9882376
The fact that the metacritic score dropped by almost 20 points in 6 months proves that that there was actively a huge bias/denial by Sega fags.

[Anonymous No.9883528]

>>9881831
Yes, welcome to the extent of criticism of SA:DX and SA2B.

Did you know that the bad alpha channels in those releases is responsible for Sonic's bad reputation?

[Anonymous No.9883529]

>>9882537
Unironically, the bugs make the game better

[Anonymous No.9883536]

>>9883529
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOBY4Z21hU

[Anonymous No.9884504]

>>9883528
The difference is that DX is worse is almost every way except for the ability to skip cutscenes, whereas B at least attempts to make legitimate improvements mostly to the multiplayer and A-Life.

[Anonymous No.9884965]

>>9881714
Best 3D Sonic games I've ever played.

[Anonymous No.9884975]

>>9883516
Is there even a dreamcast game that didn't get much lower scores as soon as it got ported to other consoles?

[Anonymous No.9884979]

>>9881714
real graphical steps forward for consoles in a huge way. i had never seen anything look that good and run that smooth, not even on PC
gameplaywise, they were tons of fun as a kid
nowadays, really rather boring imo

also, sidenote, anyone who ever recommends vocal music in a videogame should be shot dead on the spot
some of these songs arent even bad its just the singing that makes it earth-shatteringly gay

[Anonymous No.9885085]

>>9882526
literally grew up with this game on pc back in the early 2000s and never ever had this glitch. this is pure forced le ebin internet meme xdd forced shit

[Anonymous No.9885148]

>>9885085
it was in the DC version, albeit not nearly as often as its made out to be. the Dc version in general ran pretty damn good. enough to make my PC mustardrace brain feel jelly
perhaps it was patched in PC? youd think the first loop of the first lvl would be something that would come up in QA lol

it was definitely in the GC port too, which was noticeably more wonky the added content was nice tho
not a lot of people had a DC obviously lol, and the GC itself and the SADX versions sold a lot more so id imagine thats where a lot of the bad memories come from. the GC was just simply not the best hardware for the game to be running on. unfortunately for SANIC, he was homeless at the time, and had nowhere else to go but nintendo

all that aside the unsung heroes of the sonic franchise in this era were that random 3rd party that made like 3 fucking great 2D sonic games for the GBA
imo, the advance series holds up far FAR better than the SA games.
sure theyre a bit short and easier than the genesis games, but man hardly anyone was making 2d games at that point, let alone actually good ones.
for some 3rd party to hit it out of the park that hard back to back to back is, frankly, unprecedented

[Anonymous No.9885798]

From someone who's been playing Sonic games ever since 1992, Sonic Adventure 1 on the Dreamcast is still my favorite Sonic game. I'll play the gamecube version if the Dreamcast version isn't available, but I don't prefer it.

I do like Sonic Adventure 2, but not as much as the first one. I don't like how it's structured in comparison.

[Anonymous No.9885821]

>>9882170
>Grinding having the "stay balanced" gimmick seems unnecessary, though that could be me being a Heroes babby.
the grinding feels much better than Heroes IMO, but it could be because there's no level strictly based around it outside of maybe Sky Rail. Then again I would probably rather be raped and killed in a parking lot than ever play Heroes again.

[Anonymous No.9885827]

>>9882261
They've just changed the way of opening locked safes/vaults (which may contain Chaos Emeralds inside) to some ridiculously over-complexed one. In original, you just had to Drill Kick them to open. In Battle, they require you to find some ceiling switch or something like that first. When I played Battle after original game I thought the game just glitched.

Also not related and i'm not sure but I think in Battle's version of Aquatic Mine, Emeralds tend to spawn more in that shaft full of ghosts.
Like 9 times out of 10. In Dreamcast version they are almost never spawn in it.

[Anonymous No.9886016]

>>9881714
Both pretty shit but I like them
I'm tired of the narrative that you can't call these games shit when they clearly are

[Anonymous No.9886032]

>>9881714
I just played sonic adventure 2 for hours the other day … god tier all around fun game, love my chaos

[Anonymous No.9886053]

>>9882382
Lies

[Anonymous No.9886054]

>>9886016
> I'm tired of the narrative that you can't call these games shit when they clearly are

The real question is WHY you have to call them shit. I think SA1 has aged pretty badly but it's not like it's a shit game (as in terms of being made with low effort).

Same with SA2, it's just a typical game of its time, and it was pretty good on release. Then suddenly people started getting better games and oh boy, 1/10.

The real problem with these games is probably nostalgic overhype, they aren't extra great all-time classic, just fine games of their era. Same with classic Sonic, it's not a revelation like genesisfags are trying to present it. 16-bit games had their fair share of flaws too.

[Anonymous No.9886207]

>>9881714
Sa1: Kinda gay
Sa2: Amazing

[Anonymous No.9886239]

>>9881714
I enjoy them, but they're shit games.

[Anonymous No.9886250]

>>9881831
>the angry replies
based. cwcs of /vr/ btfo

[Anonymous No.9886268]

>>9885148
That third party is Dimps, and I think they were formed out of former SNK employees, which is why they did so well in 2D.

[Anonymous No.9886304]

>>9881714
Dreamcast for both: Pretty good
Gamecube for both: Solid, but annoying for cutscenes, especially DX.

[Anonymous No.9886361]

>>9881714
SA1: good try, good vibe/tone, good intentions, awful execution
SA2: cringe-kino story, great fun, good refinements, still janky execution, an improvement over SA1 in every metric.

neither game is "good", but fun can still be had if you can overlook the flaws.

[Anonymous No.9886368]

>>9882219
i have 2 problems with the mech stages.
1: that fucking high pitched targeting tone
2: i (and everyone) wanted SONIC adventure, not slow, clunky mech shooter shit. it gets shit on simply for EXISTING.

now, on its own merit, they really arent bad. theres really no reason to hate them much. they control fine and the objectives are fine. its just that they exist in the wrong game.

[Anonymous No.9886386]

>>9886368
Personally, I don't mind playing as Tails/Eggman/Big the Cat/whatever. It adds variety to the game because why not.

My regional pirate copy of SA2 even describes an option to play as Robotnik as an exclusive feature, in all caps, like "holy fucking shit, you can play as DR. ROBOTNIK!!!" And rightfully so, before that you've only could play as him in shitty racing spin-offs.
How cool is to take control of main villain and see the story from his perspective?

The problem is, Robotnik always moves in his Egg Mobile. He doesn't have any special features without it. And they had to make Tails his counterpart, so they gave him a mech too. 16-bit games had all three characters more or less the same, but in Adventure games, they went for separate kind of gameplay for every character.

People seemingly can't get over this fact.

[Anonymous No.9886827]

>>9886361
>an improvement over SA1 in every metric.
I dunno, I still like the spindashing, non-linear treasure order, and Gamma's weight more than their stringent SA2 counterparts.

[Anonymous No.9887845]

>>9881727
Adventure 1 is good
Adventure 2 is less good

[Anonymous No.9888086]

>>9882219
I played SA2's Dark Story recently and the mech felt clunky to control. It's one of those things where I remembered it moving better than it actually did.
The novelty of getting to play as the doctor more than makes up for it, though.
>>9881774
>>9885827
I think the Dreamcast method you described is the glitch, since the area you go to to unlock the safes appears to still be there in the Dreamcast version, switches and all. You likely lucked out into finding a strat that allowed you to circumvent the stage's gimmick and therefore were blindsided when said glitch got patched in Battle.

[Anonymous No.9888109]

>>9881714
SA1 is better

[Anonymous No.9888189]

SA2 is the only good Sonic game

[Anonymous No.9888945]

>>9881714
bad games with soul

[Anonymous No.9889305]

>>9886054
No you don't understand. It's shit. That's why I have to say it.

[Anonymous No.9889342]

>>9888086
> checks this out
> That behavior happens because Screw Kick/Spiral Upper have extremely larger hitbox in DC, so large that it can touch inside the safes hitbox to open them and even grab the Emerald inside, obviously this was changed since it wasn't intentional for the player to open safes like this.

What the fuck, I've played this stage like 117 times and it was a coding mistake?
Can this day get any shittier

[Anonymous No.9889837]

>>9886054
>The real question is WHY you have to call them shit
Because the OP asked for opinions? Are you retarded. Maybe you think its harsh and it disregards the historical aspect of the games but its not like thinking the adventure games are bad is a niche opinion

[Anonymous No.9889995]

>>9882286
Honestly the chao garden was probably the most polished thing about the games, everything else was jank

[Anonymous No.9890038]

>>9885148
>>9885085
>>9882526
>>9882537
i was in a discord server with a somali-canadian who sounded like scott the woz, he loved to spam this " SA:1 is bugged and unplayable" meme, along with this webm. i was never able to reproduce this so called common glitch on either version. he was so infuriating with the greatest of ease. he always had the most obnoxious hills to die on

[Anonymous No.9890737]

Trash but kino

[Anonymous No.9890956]

>>9888189
>>9890737
the most accurate desriptions. They are shoddy but you can tell there was heart and effort put in and that the devs thought they were making the coolest shit ever

[Anonymous No.9890981]

sa2 is a better game, but you have to appreciate that sa1 lets you play as just 1 character in an interconnected story.
sa1 overall is more ambitious and a product of it's time that started on saturn, and can never really be done again.

[Anonymous No.9890984]

theyre both trash 3d sonic is a mistake

[Anonymous No.9891074]

I hate how the characters feel in SA1, so goddamn slippery I never got used to it. SA2 is only around half of a good game but I think all the Sonic and Shadow levels are at least good. Final Rush is one of my favorite platforming levels ever.

[Anonymous No.9891354]

>>9881714
Still believe this IP deserves a better understanding of Classic Sonic gameplay into 3D, but at this point I'd much rather say SA1/2 were real 3D SOnic games before I'll ever accept Fartiers as one.

I just don't think it's right to be told a Sonic game is a game where you have to play with babies, fish for no reason, or shoot in mechs even if you were playing it from Eggman's forces. The hunting is a ok side idea in Sonic since it's kinda like taking the special stages idea but as a standalone gameplay style, but having RPG elements make it shit completely, there's no skill involved, which is anti Sonic to me. Playing Sonic takes no skill, if you expect to die a lot for it. Low Skill is playing Sonic normally. High Skill is mastering the physics and level design knowledge.

If I had to pick one based on all of this, SA1 fails more at this than SA2. If the beta windy valley however was how every stage was in SA1, than SA1 would win without question.

[Anonymous No.9891607]

>>9886054
>The real question is WHY you have to call them shit.
It's not a question
Better 3D platformers do this gameplay better. Sure, it might not be "as fast" but when the fast parts are just cutscenes unlike classic Sonic would actually uses it's physics properly thanks to Yasuhara's handywork it doesn't matter as much, so what actually matters is how the platforming feels and it's either A: a straight line without the strategy to proceed (just homing spam2win) or B: it's really only one way to proceed where there's no other options for complexity . And yeah, there's SOME levels like this, but not enough complexity and strategy on how to get there, just take the spring or homing attack fodder and you're already at the end of the stage. In many other platformers, including 3D ones, there's just more thought into progressing, while Sonic works like "make it braindead, and the "actual" challenge is doing that while trying to get a A rank by also juggling simple gameplay with forced score attack and ring collection.". The best way to explain it is that Sonic is a baby platformer and it tricks the player it's not by using gimmicks to add "difficulty" when it's really just clutter at best that don't always flow with the core concept of Sonic that the classic games did far better.

The entirety of Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman stages can be derived into 3 comparisons: 2D Kaizo Mario if it was just one straight line and the OHKO parts were disabled making the challenge not existent, 3D Mario aka Mario 64 without the creative level design because Knuckles can just climb over it all, and replace all collectables with RPG placements to remove skill being a factor of progression, and Star Fox Assault grounded missions but without any real urgency to beat the objective. It's like you made it more like OG Star Fox but now with clunky heavy af tanks that hate moving back and forth smoothly. In a vacuum, it's an ok game itself, but next to anything else? It gets shit on.

[Anonymous No.9891715]

>>9881714
Guilty
The sentence is not having a good 3D sonic game again for 20-years-to-life

[Anonymous No.9892001]

>>9891607

>Knuckles can just climb over it all
>RPG placements

That's where I stop reading your absolute garble of words and proceed to answering this anon >>9889837
because I feel he didn't quite get what I was saying.

Back then, everybody loved Adventure games, it helped franchise to reach its peak and negative reviews were a minority (at least where I live). Then Sega stepped into shit and PS2 action games like Ratchet and Clank changed people's vision on quality of platformers. But Adventure fans kept talking about how great their games are, because that was their entry point to the series, they were introduced to and started loving Sonic for what he was in these games.

It's not like they are worst games ever with absolutely no redeeming qualities, or just bad games made with no effort. They are just terribly overhyped, and that's the main reason WHY others feel annoyed and dislike it.

Like, there are people who don't care so much about Adventure games. Or newcomers to the franchise who heard from other fans about how awesome these games are. They've tried it and saw (obviously) dated mechanics and 00s vibes, so they don't get what's so cool about it.
If there weren't so overrated, people could've been more or less indifferent to it.

[Anonymous No.9892010]

>>9892001
>>RPG placements
I meant to say RNG,

I don't care about "le everyone loved shit", I''m stating MY distaste of the games not what sheeple like. I believe Sonic deserves better than to be baby food that people think is so damn great. DKC already shits on Sonic by alot of posters on this board, and that's saying something when I only think DKC2 was the best one because it was actually challenging.

Sonic had potential to filter out retarded normies and could have been a master class platformer even better than any Nintendo platformer. But it op'd to pander to smoothbrain'd children that thinks "gottagofest" unironically = best gameplay ever.

[Anonymous No.9892046]

>>9888189
I've always fucking hated this retarded meme. it's like the worst game out of all the Sonic games that are considered ''''objectively'''' good

[Anonymous No.9892889]

>>9892010
S3&K mogs any DKC game

[Anonymous No.9892912]

>>9891607
>Mario 64 without the creative level design

so uh, just mario 64?

[Anonymous No.9892949]

>>9881714
The only Sonic games I give any shits about, never enjoyed 2D Sonic and then the 3D games they made after the Dreamcast era were abominations

[Anonymous No.9892960]

>>9892912
So uh, yes clown, because automated scripts does not make it creative level if the game plays it for you.

[Anonymous No.9893034]

>>9892001
>Back then, everybody loved Adventure games, it helped franchise to reach its peak and negative reviews were a minority (at least where I live). Then Sega stepped into shit and PS2 action games like Ratchet and Clank changed people's vision on quality of platformers.
The reviews for the Adventure games on Dreamcast were all fairly positive, as was Battle's, but once SADX came out it became apparent that the game had flaws and outside of the context of being a way to show off the dreamcast, 5 years later it just wasn't as impressive.

[Anonymous No.9893690]

>>9881714
The themes in these games have such bizarre rambling lyrics.

[Anonymous No.9893732]

>>9892960
we're talking about mario 64 here and that game doesn't have creative levels

[Anonymous No.9893735]

>>9893690
Sounds like somebody didn't open their hearts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gb_42k30YE

[Anonymous No.9894045]

>>9890956
It's bizarre that anyone thinks Sonic Adventure is cool. Actual edgy teens were playing GTA, Halo, God of War, Resident Evil, Counter-Strike, Max Payne, Half-Life, Diablo, Fallout, Splinter Cell, Doom, etc., etc. Games changed a lot during the PS1 and PS2 eras. If you played Sonic the Hedgehog you were a tard. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.9894102]

>>9893690
they're not bizarre, you're just too retarded to understand them

[Anonymous No.9894106]

>>9894045
dumbest post i've ever read on 4chan, and thats saying something

take a gun, put it in your mouth and pull the trigger you retarded faggot

[Anonymous No.9894109]

SA1: LOVE IT
SA2: LOVE EVERY PART but tales missions.

[Anonymous No.9894148]

>>9886016
There is nothing wrong with SA2. It's not nearly as glitchy as 1. The idiots who say the non-Sonic stages are awful are spoiled dipshits who probably don't play many games. There's been way worse things in many beloved retro games. Not to say that there aren't bad moments in the game too, the rail switching is still awful and so is Final Rush, fuck that stage.

[Anonymous No.9894170]

>>9886016
Zoomer take.
1 was amazing when it came out, and 2 really felt like an upgrade.
>>9886207
>He didn't like Emerald Coast, Twinkle Park, or Speed Highway
NOT GOING TO FUCKING MAKE IT.
>>9886032
the link shall no be posted:
https://youtu.be/pvv0PTeEzHI

[Anonymous No.9894315]

What's better, emulating the DC originals, or the PC versions with restoration mods?

[Anonymous No.9894325]

>>9894148
>so is Final Rush, fuck that stage.

Have you ever tried to A-rank Cannon Core?
Or just playing it generally WITHOUT knowing that Knuckles has an infinite air upgrade?

I bet you would love to get back to Final Rush after that.

[Anonymous No.9894334]

>>9881714
SA1 is better because I can play through the whole game in a sitting and I do so like twice a year. AND spindashing around the map as Sonic is really fun and I wish that was kept around even if it does break stages.

[Anonymous No.9894349]

>>9894102
>>9894106
You'd think sonic fans would be more humble at this point.