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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 145 KB, 864x1047, Sonic3&KnucklesCart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9876714 No.9876714 [Reply] [Original]

Why did Nintendo never create their own ``LOCK-ON'' system or equivalent for the SNES? There are a few missed opportunities like DKC3 lock-on compatibility with DKC1&2. Maybe SMW or Yoshi's Island could have done it for the Super Mario series. Did Nintendo lack the technolgical know-how and expertise to create something similar? Or did SEGA have the all the patents required to create something like this?

>> No.9876721
File: 64 KB, 1300x731, 15559367373053_1300x0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>> No.9876735

nintendo relied on expansion hardware more than sega, with all the memory mappers and expansions cpus they offered.

>> No.9876736

>Kirby DL3 + other Nintendo game gives you unique abilities

>> No.9876742

Honestly, it would've been really cool to see this feature expanded upon in other games/platforms. Not only are you getting a new game, but said new game gives you content to try out in your older game to mix it up. A simple character swap would be enough of a reason to replay an older game.

>> No.9876743

Sonic and Knuckles had lock-on because it's the second half of Sonic 3. Putting a cartridge slot in Yoshi's Island – which already was more expensive to manufacture due to the Super FX chip – would have been a pointless exercise because neither Yoshi's Island nor Mario World have anything to gain from being conjoined
>Or did SEGA have the all the patents required to create something like this?
No Sega didn't have the patents to reading bits from ROM rofl

>> No.9876746

>expanded upon in other games/platforms
It sort of continued to exist. Like for example on PS2 when you have Silent Hill 2 saves on your memory card you get neat easter eggs in 3

>> No.9876749
File: 15 KB, 220x151, Lock_on_snes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Nintendo historically (especially in the 90s) has never been interested in adding additional content after the fact so I think Miyamoto's response to that kind of thing would've been "Go back to SMW? but we've already done SMW!"
It's a cool system though. I think the nearest and earliest equivalent we saw from Nintendo was the GBA/GCN link cable additional features you could unlock in games like Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem Path of Radiance

pic related, Nintendo's SNES LOCK-ON equivalent

>> No.9876750

>Putting a cartridge slot in Yoshi's Island ... would have been a pointless exercise
You are wrong. Forget your bitter, jaded Nintendo manchild mindset for a moment and try to remember what it was like being a child.
Not a single kid that owned a SNES would have said no to a Kirby's Dream Land LOCK-ON or Yoshi's Island LOCK-ON.
Admittedly they couldn't call it a ``LOCK-ON'' but I'm sure Miyamoto could have thought up something. The point still stands - increased replaybility through extra content seen in the Sonic & Knuckles LOCK-ON system was incredible.

>pic related, Nintendo's SNES LOCK-ON equivalent
LOL nice

>> No.9876752

sounds like DLC
DLC isnt bad

>> No.9876770

Lock on tech was never used outside of Sonic & Knuckles. The Sonic 1 and 2 stuff were just bonuses to make you feel like you bought more than a Sonic 3 expac. It was useless and just a way to get consumers to buy two halves of a game at full price.

>> No.9876772

As was said, Lock-On was really only so that Sonic 3 could be played as intended. The closest Nintendo equivalent would probably be playing a linked Oracle game on a single cartridge.
Even the Sega lock-on was limited since it only gave you S3&K, Knuckles in Sonic 2 and a million Blue Spheres stages.

>> No.9876786
File: 2.05 MB, 498x498, 1670961607897.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Donkey Kong Country 1 is the same size as Sonic 3 and Knuckles combined.

>> No.9876802

>Not a single kid that owned a SNES would have said no to a Kirby's Dream Land LOCK-ON or Yoshi's Island LOCK-ON.
Lock on worked for S3&K/S2&K because those games play the same anyway, have the same engine, and didn't have conflicts with palettes. Sonic 1 actually did have palette conflicts, which is why we didn't get an S1&K.
So, conceptually (and perhaps in terms of memory addresses) what do you hope for Yoshi's Island Lock-On to achieve?

>> No.9876814

Imagine playing DKC1 with Chunky or Dixie Kong. Very epic

I don't know I never liked Yoshi's Island but maybe if it was SMW you could have the cape in SMB1,2,3 or a Yoshi in SMB1, things like that. I am not a game dev so it's not for me to work these things out

>> No.9876837

The concept existed in other games still, it just looks different.
>Rare's failed attempt at Stop N' Swap
>dragon ball Tenkaichi 3 uses disc swapping with 1 and 2 to unlock additional gameplay modes
>Sequel games reading save data from the games that came out before it on memory cards to carry over progress, or transfer bonus rewards
>GBC Ubisoft games had hidden keys in each game that could be traded to other Ubisoft games to unlock more content using the GBC infrared port
>the Gamecube GBA adapter and the various games that supported it (my favorite was using Sonic Advance to transfer my Chao to from Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, and using it as a portable chao garden, a decent successor to the VMU chao adventure.)
>gen IV pokemon games read the GBA slot on the DS, and having different gen III Pokemon games in the GBA slot while playing made exclusive swarms of Pokemon appear in the wild in certain areas
>Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops unlocks exclusive characters for having save data from other Metal Gear games on the memory stick

Cross game interactivity is still underused though, it's such a cool concept.

>> No.9876887

S3/S&K came about when the need to split a game into 2 parts happened, and I'd wager it was an expensive compromise among other options. There actually were not many games pushing the maximum cartridge space of either the Genesis/MD or the SNES, and doing that was probably cheaper than putting a full cartridge adapter in every cartridge sold in one part of a split game.

>> No.9876908

Super SF2 (Super Vanilla) was 40 megs but only because of the attract screen ryu having actual frames instwad of splitted background image layers like in snes.

>> No.9876969

DLC isn't bad depending on the content of said DLC. I just think it would be cool if, for instance, buying the RE4 remake unlocks/downloads extra content for the RE2 remake.

>> No.9876979

DK yellow add on?

>> No.9876986

the early DLC were expansion packages….complete games without bug and scam….good time.

>> No.9877303
File: 231 KB, 1600x1200, s-l1600.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You are too limited with just one cartridge...

>> No.9877363

Not made by Nintendo specifically, but the Sufami add on was essentially that.

>> No.9877368

They actually did via the Super Game Boy. Allowing you to play Game Boy games with your SNES.

>> No.9877564

Sega does what NintenDON'T!

>> No.9877672

Why did Nintendo never use a silly gimmick that Sega only used once? We may never know the answer.

Which would have actually been a very good reason to use something like lock on. You buy your enhancement chip once instead of dozens of times. You can actually do this with DSP-1 games and some copiers. If Jimmy Ching Chong could figure out how to do it Nintendo could have easily done it

>> No.9877681

Could such an add on have functioned through the systems bottom expansion port? I feel like having an unsightly game genie like cart you plug compatible games into would not have been what Nintendo would want to do.

>> No.9877723

Lock-On was a cool gimmick for the one game but it was really the kind of thing that only made sense for the really specific difficulties S3&K faced in development.

Plus Knowing Nintendo I bet you'd have bootleg concerns about letting carts communicate with each other like that. It would probably get hairy trying to make the CIC work with two carts plugged in at once, last thing they'd want is to accidentally make an official bootleg passthrough cart.

>> No.9877740

>Could such an add on have functioned through the systems bottom expansion port?
some carts with expansion hardware accessed on-cart ROM and/or RAM directly when running their programs, without going through the CPU. this is how the SuperFX is set up.
so yes, anything could work through the expansion port (it's connected to the CPU) but only if that expansion hardware had a cart slot :p

>> No.9877754

That sure was a great idea when Sega did it with the 32x!

>> No.9877936

>it's not for me to work these things out
I agree

>> No.9878205


>> No.9878356

The answer to your hypothetical depends on many hypotheticals. If Nintendo had wanted to make that possible they could have. They could have done all sorts of things, but they didn't. Probably for simplicity and aesthetics.

>> No.9878357

Indeed. The Saturn is one of my most favorite systems.

>> No.9878362
File: 169 KB, 240x184, IllustriousSameAmurminnow-max-1mb.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>There ain't no Nintendo CD!

>> No.9878712

musta missed that time where they had GBA's connecting to the gamecube?

>> No.9879315 [DELETED] 

That is not even close to being the same thing lol... are you even trying with this cope?

It's true and the only explanation. SEGA has always done what NintenCAN'T,WON'T,DON'T
>blast processing
>being cool
>LOCK-ON technology
>CD-rom games long before Nintendo
>most powerful games console of all time, at the time anyway

>zoomer gamecube tranny
>unable to finish the first sentence of the OP
I said SNES, not Gamecube.

>> No.9879330

>Good DLC
Game is already complete, extras and all included. Some time later, after the game succeeds, deva implements new ideas in form of DLC.

>Bad DLC
Game ia completed, then intentionally butchered. The cut parts are then sold as DLC. Ironically, at day one.

>> No.9879360
File: 1.15 MB, 2716x4114, 32x saturn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

"Lock-on" (there are no locks) technology is abandoned by Sega almost immediately, as soon as it got its tech demo.
Which should have been a warning sign for Sega fans. I'm sure that would never happen again.