/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9874913]

Can a game be filled with soul and yet be a terrible game at the same time?
Pic related's existence makes me believe it's possible, but I really can't think of any other similar cases.

[Anonymous No.9874916]

I don’t think Sunshine is bad, just unfinished.

[Anonymous No.9874919]

>>9874913
I can think of a lot of worse games, including Mario games

[Anonymous No.9875113]

>>9874913
Super Famicom had plenty of janky but soulful titles, OP

[Anonymous No.9875129]

[Anonymous No.9875134]

>>9874913
Why do people dislike Sunshine so much? The only issues it had was blue coins being in different locations in EVERY MISSION, meaning if you missed one blue coin in one mission, you had to go back and search the same level seven times over because they were in different spots in each mission. That was satanic.

[Anonymous No.9875136]

>>9874913
Almost every single enemy who first and only appeared in it have never ever returned to a new Mario game

The chances of Nintendo actually and legitimately bringing them back are low, but never zero

[Anonymous No.9875159]

>>9874913
Terrible games are often the most soulful

[Anonymous No.9875287]

>>9874916
this, and even as it is, it's better than the galaxies

[Anonymous No.9875294]

>>9874913
God you people are such extremist retards. Sunshine is in no way bad. There might be better Mario games but the scale doesn't then become that all Mario games not as good are shit.

I hate you retards with a passion because you infest this entire fucking website and make it a pain to talk about any series with multiple games and to have conversations not all about jerking off your stupid ass tier lists

[Anonymous No.9875301]

>>9875129
>>9875129
>>9875129

[Anonymous No.9875303]

>>9875294
It is bad though just like megamen 7 is bad compared to nes megamen. Nobody in their right mind wants a new game with unskippable cut scenes and worse overall levels/physics. I don't even think sunshine was originally a Mario game. Fuck isle delphino. Only good parts are when fludd is absent.

[Anonymous No.9875307]

>>9875136
I've always loved the unorthodox enemy designs in this game, it's such a shame Nintendo never brought it back and instead only reiterates the same bland SMB3 slop.

[Anonymous No.9875313]

>>9875303
Imagine calling sunshine a terrible game, anons right there's some hard autism going on here.

[Anonymous No.9875336]

>>9875294
Based.

[Anonymous No.9875387]

I played mario sunshine and i knew i didn’t want a gamecube. Hardly a mario game, gimmicky bullshit.

[Anonymous No.9875450]

>>9874913
>Can a game be filled with soul and yet be a terrible game at the same time?
Yes, easily

[Anonymous No.9875453]

>>9875129
That's a great game though. Zoomers, as usual, filtered.

[Anonymous No.9875467]

>>9874913
Absolutely. It can happen. Passion doesn't always translate to quality.

[Anonymous No.9875471]

>>9875307
Is there a reason why Sunshine is so strange and detached from the rest of the series? People say it doesn't feel like Mario and as someone who replayed it a while back I second that notion as well.
I know next to nothing about the dev history, but I'm guessing something went down. Even today out of all the 3D Marios it seems like the one Nintendo tries to bury the most.

[Anonymous No.9875498]

>>9875134
It's just one zoomer making the same thread at least once a week. Nobody who considers themselves a Mario fan thinks Sunshine is bad or unfinished. He'll samefag through the entire thread now, ignore him.

[Anonymous No.9875502]

>>9875471
>it seems like the one Nintendo tries to bury the most.
They literally rereleased it on Switch bundled with Galaxy and 64, OP.

[Anonymous No.9875535]

>>9875471
Don't ask, you're gonna summon the m**** m****** schizos

[Anonymous No.9875559]

>>9875471
mario
mandate

[Anonymous No.9875565]

>>9875535
>>9875559
I thought this sort of shit was quarantined in vee.
Not a thing btw.

[Anonymous No.9875568]

>>9875565
Sure, just like Nintendo definitely did not had Yokoi killed. I find it hard to believe nintendo pays losers like you to PR for them in this shithole.

[Anonymous No.9875574]

>>9874913
>>9875134
>>9875294
https://youtu.be/qPiEUy7hb4c

https://youtu.be/odrrumX00c4

Having played through the game co-op recently without any nostalgia, I can say that Sunshine feels incomplete compared to Mario 64 (which I also played splitscreen co-op). Especially with how they handled shines and some of the filler ones like chasing the evil clone. Mario 64 always had inventive stars to find, while Sunshine barely had any and a few were just AIDS.

If Sunshine were finished, it would be a true classic. Instead, I think A Hat in Time eats its lunch (especially with official co-op implementation)

[Anonymous No.9875615]

>>9875574
You don't have to complete those shines for the endgame. It's literal bonus content they didn't have to put in. Same goes for the blue coins. The game was also never meant to be played in co-op.

[Anonymous No.9875618]

Sunshine is the best Mario game because it's most daring and original. Zoomies who expected Galaxy on a tropical island dropped it after 3 hours and will shitpost about it here forever.

[Anonymous No.9875653]

>>9874913
>Can a game be filled with soul and yet be a terrible game at the same time?
Yeah, Super Mario 64.
Sunshine is secretly masterpiece and this one puts it into super perfection.

[Anonymous No.9875661]

>>9875387
I already had a gamecube before I played it. I rented it from Blockbuster and hated it and never played it again.
My friends and I have used it as a litmus test for people who like bad games.

[Anonymous No.9875692]

>>9875615
>The game was also never meant to be played in co-op.

The game is way more enjoyable that way.

Also are you stupid? They've been trying to do 2 player simultaneous since Mario 64 but they legit thought the N64 wasn't powerful enough.

[Anonymous No.9875706]

I like doing a triple jump while firing the FLUDD because it looks really cool shooting water like that.

[Anonymous No.9875720]

>>9875692
Im not downloading your mod, tranny.

[Anonymous No.9875725]

>>9875661
>rented

[Anonymous No.9875765]

>>9875661
Your friend and you had shit taste

[Anonymous No.9875819]

>>9874916
Didn't they drastically restructure the Plaza before release?
Wasn't there a hypothetical railway system at one point?
Unfinished sounds accurate enough.
Here's an interesting detail,
in the game's data, each stage has dedicated models for each episode.
If you keep an eye out, the Plaza has a number of subtleties about its composition.
>UV error on rooftop trim near yoshi egg (there's a point where a correct mapping is observed)
>manhole cover inside the jail when the plaza is flooded (not supposed to be there)
>another UV error underneath the overhanging connection between the buildings near the fruit merchants

[Anonymous No.9875846]

>>9875313
It's worse than 64 which wasn't even that great of a game due to its limited stages and collection bullshit. Face it, sunshine isn't very good unless it's your first game and you have no idea of actual good games that came before it.

[Anonymous No.9875862]

>>9875846
Great argument fagtron

[Anonymous No.9875865]

It's actually the best Mario game. Once you get older you'll get it.

[Anonymous No.9875883]

>>9875136
>>9875307
The duck enemy returned in the galaxy games atleast

[Anonymous No.9875925]

>>9875862
Compare the story of Sunshine to anything good on the PS2 like Jak or Sly or Ratchet, and it's fucking embarrassing, and that's maybe the least important part, because Sunshine leads into the most underwhelming interpretation of Bowser that the series had ever seen in terms of a final boss.

>oh he's on vacation and in a hot tub

It's like shaggy dog fart joke.

Literally the only thing it has going for it is that it isn't a 2 hour tech demo like Loogie's Mansion.

[Anonymous No.9875957]

>>9875883
They also appeared in Double Dash

[Anonymous No.9875983]

>>9875819
>Wasn't there a hypothetical railway system at one point?
Yes.
https://tcrf.net/Super_Mario_Sunshine/Unused_Text#Mystery_of_the_Delfino_Express
There's actually quite a bit of unused content or content that was left from an earlier iteration of the game. People have even found a thing or two that hints that Pinna Park was originally meant to be a second hub rather than a full-on level.

[Anonymous No.9876021]

>>9875653
eclipse is only talked about because it's impressive on a technical level, but content-wise it's an incoherent barely playable mess.
I also don't see the point of randomly shoving mario kart and galaxy stages into it. sounds like autism to me.

[Anonymous No.9876196]

>>9875925
what are these chris chan tier points lmao. fucking nobody but you cares about the story, let alone one in a platformer. the real issue is that you can't skip the cutscenes.
make a case for why the actual game is bad when it has the best level design and best movement in the 3D series. optional janky levels aside.

[Anonymous No.9876226]

>>9874913
environments too similar
music not that good
not as fun if you don't like collecting things

[Anonymous No.9876282]

>>9875502
Temporarily

[Anonymous No.9876287]

>>9875925
you literally sound like the mother 3 shitposter right now. think about that and then don't make such shit posts again.

[Anonymous No.9876706]

>>9874916
This, there are tons of great unfinished games out there. SMS is no exception

[Anonymous No.9878336]

>>9874913
Sunshine is just a shit game through and through.
>fix the controls
Yeah. Now he controls better than SM64! But the levels area all shitty tropical themed and less fun and well thought out.
>fix the levels
Ok but the graphics still suck, the music sucks, the gimmicks suck and the controls suck, the voice acting sucks, the CGI sucks so what is the point?
>Fix the tropical only theme
Ok but the controls suck and everything else.

It was clear they were out of ideas and didn't know where to take Mario, couldn't get something together for the CG launch, got their asses chewed out and released this half-assed piece of shit that should have been shot down in the exploratory stages. It killed Mario and Nintendo as a respectable game dev company. They had a string of banger from Donkey Kong until Super Mario 64 in the Mario franchise, and this ended it.

[Anonymous No.9878350]

sonic thread

[Anonymous No.9878425]

>>9878336
They quickly recovered themselves so it really doesn't matter. However that discussion enters dangerous not retro territory.
Perhaps it very soon will be anyway. Pic related is fucking 17 years old.

[Anonymous No.9878583]

>>9874913
MOTHER 1 is a pretty good example.

[Anonymous No.9880045]

>>9875134
>repeating Red Coins even more then Super Mario 64
>Shadow Mario chase repeats
>Blue coins
>that final level
>wonky physics everywhere
>horrible swimming mechanics despite the game being constantly surrounded with water

I love Sunshine but I understand the hate. The game is jank

[Anonymous No.9880053]

>>9878583
Filtered, Mother has great gameplay. DQ2 on steroids.

[Anonymous No.9880142]

>>9874913
mario sunshine and sonic adventure 2 arent terrible, just a little janky. they're both very fun and very soulful. its ok to not be perfect.

[Anonymous No.9880176]

>>9874913
What do you get out of these shitty bait threads bro? Everyone knows sunny is the best mario for gameplay and soul.

[Anonymous No.9880180]

>>9875846
64 is only good if you have pure uncut autism and your opinion is irrelevant if that's what you have.

[Anonymous No.9881819]

>>9874913
Actually just got this dirt cheap for my GC. Never played any other Mario than 64, and I really liked it. What am I in for? Should I get Galaxy for the wii too laprter on?

[Anonymous No.9881938]

>>9881819
>Water
>Janky yet neat platforming
>Comfy atmosphere
>Some of the most bullshit bonus stages in a Mario game.
>Nozzle shenanigans
>A vague attempt at plotlines
It's flawed, but it's got a sort of charm to it.

[Anonymous No.9882035]

>>9876196
Whats so good about the level design though? People swear up and down about it, but I never understood the appeal

[Anonymous No.9882190]

>>9874913
I'd comment but my copy doesn't work.
>>9875129
JSR is a good game (even if I hate the graffiti mechanic) but JSRF is a godly game.

[Anonymous No.9883010]

>>9882190

the whole point of the grafitti mechanic is risk/ reward and it was a mistake to remove it in JSRF

>can I tag this massive wall before the police catch me?

also, on topic Sunshine is mid

[Anonymous No.9883023]

>>9881938
The illusion of choice
>You WILL get all the episode shines and you WILL be happy

[Anonymous No.9884081]

>>9874913
Was Sunshine really that bad? I remember it quite fondly with it's levels, music, and water gimmick. I wish they made a second one.

[Anonymous No.9884129]

>>9875307
>Duck fella
>Egg-Shells
>Crapping Bird
>Round Octopus
>Those silly little big nose fellas
>Spikey Balls
>Blobs that go 'Baooooooo-AP!"
>Angry Air
>Spider that looked sick
Loved all these guys.

[Anonymous No.9885881]

>>9875129
JSR is legitimately good though. I prefer JSRF, but I can see why some people would prefer the original. It's basically a home port of an arcade game that wasn't actually an arcade game, which is pretty typical of 90s sega

[Anonymous No.9886889]

I don't feel like writing this post again so here's an old one.

Sunshine has a pathetically low amount of stages which are almost all tiny (despite a generation leap over 64) and not fun to explore or platform in. Ricco Harbor is probably the sole exception in that it's the singular stage that actually takes some form of design cue from 64 and has a "real world location" that they actually applied properly to make a fun fucking level out of. Many of the rest commit too hard to being some actual location rather than a fun stage to play around in. Bianco Hills actually has a fun idea that should be interesting, but it's simply designed like shit instead. Noki Bay has good platforming elements, but is too linear and it doesn't have the sort of reasoning Tick Tock Clock for example does where it's one out of tons of fun stages that just so happens to also be more linear than the others. Sirena Beach and Pianta Village are downright fucking embarassing and probably some of the worst levels Nintendo has ever put in a Mario game. They almost entirely exist for padding's sake. Pinna Park is a fun environment that's enjoyable to play around in, but then proceeds to completely ignore that aspect for almost all of its Shines and makes you do other garbage instead. And then, for one mission, it makes you put up with one of the worst cameras in 3D game history (which is odd, as otherwise Sunshine's camera is quite good). The hub world isn't any fun to explore unlike Peach's Castle. And worst of all, because they didn't bother making the rest of the game, you're forced to collect the same Shines every single run because they're the only meaningful content. All other Shines are even more filler-y garbage than the main ones, with the 8th missions tending to be some of the worst game design in an already failing title. The Yoshi platform creating mission feels like an idea that was meant to have something to it but was dropped in development. Like the rest of the game, really.

[Anonymous No.9886895]

>>9886889
People's opinion tends to lean towards the best parts of the game being the filler FLUDDless linear platforming challenges that are at best simply ok, and an idea that Mario Galaxy later executed better (even though those games themselves have tons of issues and are slow as shit). FLUDD itself actually has a lot of potential, but the existence of the Hover Nozzle ruins most of the game's platforming design and while the Rocket and Turbo Nozzles are actually fairly fun to use, they are distributed extremely rarely and the Turbo Nozzle has almost no applications in the actual game's design as they dropped it during development. Like everything fucking else. The water slide move you can do is fun as hell and movement is generally snappy and nice, but when the actual stages you are meant to maneuver in aren't enjoyable to traverse and have stinkers like the boxed in hotel, that plus simply stops mattering.

Maybe it would have been an ok game if they actually put more worthwhile content in it. For fuck's sake, the final Bowser stage is like two seconds long followed by the biggest joke in boss battle history. How anyone can play it today and not see its immense amount of flaws is beyond me. You would have to be remembering an idealized version of the game from long ago, in a reality where you the player had never touched Mario 64 beforehand. What a crushing disappointment this shitstain was back then.

[Anonymous No.9886910]

>>9875471
I recall reading that the director or someone at least high up on the development staff was trying to make Mario more “adult”

[Anonymous No.9887828]

>>9878425
Bro, Doom was retro to me by the time halo 3 came out, it was 14 years old by then. Retrofags are stuck in the 90's. In fact, Doom was retro by 2001

[Anonymous No.9888081]

>>9874913
yes

[Anonymous No.9888085]

>>9888081
If you use a guide this game is pretty fun

[Anonymous No.9888097]

>>9874913
Deadly Premonition

[Anonymous No.9888104]

>>9888097
I've always wanted to try this because the gameplay vids remind me of Silent Hill and Shenmue. One of these days I will

[Anonymous No.9888876]

>>9886910
do you know more about that? im especially interested in that paradigm change that happened during the early 2000s, everyone and everything suddenly had to be "realistic" and "edgy", even sonic and mario.

[Anonymous No.9888909]

>>9888104
try the 360 version if possible. it's the most stable one and looks the best. avoid 2.