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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/vr/ - Retro Games

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987349 No.987349 [Reply] [Original]

What kills me is that the door shuts behind you. They knew. They fucking knew.

>> No.987359

>the realization that this was probably added to extend what was basically half a game

>> No.987360

Guaranteed Replies.

>> No.987363

I feel that the reason most people struggled on this is that

A. You hadn't used the up button for anything like this up to this point. The mind likes to stick within a familiar box of rules when it comes to problem solving, which is why you hear "when you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

B. Even if you tried it on the barrel by testing buttons, you didn't get immediate feedback, you had to wait before you could notice it was doing something. We're kind of skittish that way, in that when confronting problems, we immediately back off on a solution when it doesn't immediately suggest that it's the right way to go.

>> No.987384

>>987363
Oh fuck. So true.

>> No.987387

>>987363

I agree with what you said here, and it's bad game design in that trying to think about it logically made you MORE likely to get stuck.

However, I'll admit that as a player, I'm at fault for not trying absolutely EVERYTHING, which is like gaming rule #1.

>> No.987389

You'd have to be a retard to get stuck here longer than 5 minutes. You literally only have 4 options that could work.

>> No.987415

>>987389
This.

>> No.987417

Read the fucking manual and up and down were always used in Sonic games, even in Sonic 1 you could use them to see the map that was offscreen.

>> No.987428

>tfw I got past this in no time

>> No.987431

>>987417
that, and you could hold down while running to start spinning even in Sonic 1. Sonic 2 allowed you to spindash from a standing position.

And really, you had to be fucking retarded to be unable to figure out that part - you have 4 directions and a jump button. Even brute forcing a solution by trying everything should get you out of that part in 1 minute.

>> No.987456

I never had a problem with this as a kid. It's video games 101; holding up and down affects your movements.

At the very least, you should have been able to figure it out after a moment by noticing that the barrels lock you in place and you could use them to jump higher, so you obviously must have some control over them.

>> No.987478

What kills me is this fucking thread. It's a console game meant to be played on a controller with 8 buttons. If you can't figure this out you have no place handling whatever it is you're handling to make this thread. I've half a mind to report you to the police.

>> No.987484

I would jump on the thing, adding to its speed by hitting it every time it was moving downward, until it went high/low enough for me to get through...

I just thought that was what you were meant to do.

>> No.987490

I first passed this by jumping repeated and getting the barrel to go as far down as possible then jumping off or jumping to the left and then spindashing under it.

>> No.987512

>>987349
It's good game design to lock players in an obstacle in order to make sure they don't backtrack meaninglessly. Super Metroid also locked players in a limited area for noob bridge.

>> No.987517
File: 69 KB, 640x330, CURSE THAT HEDGEHOG!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
987517

>>987349

FOR IT IS I--SHREDDER--WHO HAS CONCEIVED THIS CONTRAPTION TO PUT AN END TO THAT PESKY HEDGEHOG!

>> No.987650

>>987417
>>987431

How are either of those things functionally related to moving an obstacle? The problem is that if you've paid attention at all up to that point, you know that up/down ONLY affects the camera.

>It's video games 101; holding up and down affects your movements.

Not in any Sonic game ever, right up to that point.

>>987484
>>987490
This is what happens if you act on the internal logic of everything the game has taught you up to that point. It's stupid because using your head is less effective than button mashing. The timing is very difficult if you attempt this.

>> No.988064

I knew what to do here because the final boss of the zone right before this had you flying in the air, and up and down moved you up and down. Duh.

>> No.988096
File: 88 KB, 701x728, 1327366099493.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
988096

>>987517
10/10
Read that on his voice.

>> No.988150

I never even played this game so I have no idea what the fuck you guys are on about.

Looks like

>stand on red thing
>hold up

>> No.988168

>>987387
When I first played this I got stuck and tried everything till the timer ran out. For the most part I figured if you jumped up and down you could get it to go down far enough with a solid pattern and perfect timing.

>> No.988218

>>987512
Yup. This wasn't even the only place in Carnival Night where doors lock behind you either; they give you a few at regular intervals in the ordinary sections of the level to keep you moving in the right direction, because the level is so huge and nonlinear.

>> No.988278

>>987359
The entire level of Carnival Night was full of padding. So many obstacles that literally push you back. The water in Act 2 was literally just there to slow you down.

>> No.988290
File: 224 KB, 822x768, 1375546043201.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
988290

sanic

>> No.988315
File: 357 KB, 850x1378, Amy-Rose-Sonic-Advance-3-amyxzane-4eva-32264106-850-1378.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
988315

maybe if I time my jumps just right...

>> No.988340

>>988315
fuck she's perfect

but /vr/'s not the place for this

>> No.988342

>>987363
you forgot the most important point, which is the fact that jumping up and down initially seems to work because it reacts and begins to gain momentum. In a game series that is entirely based around controlling momentum it just intuitively makes sense that that would be the solution. It's been a while since I played, but I also believe that jumping up and down to add momentum will work on the first barrel or two. It's only the last one I think that you absolutely have to press up and down to complete, and even then jumping up and down with the right timing gets you tantalizingly close.

>> No.988352

>>988340

amy rose predates sonic 2

>> No.988404

>>988315
Advance 3 was awesome with Amy since you had the option of either her advance 1 hammer playstyle and advance 2 traditional playstyle.

>> No.988406

>>987349
Honestly, I feel if they didn't lock you in, unaware players would probably backtrack the entire map wasting even more time trying to find the "real" way.

>> No.988410

>>987349
>>987363
>>987387
Sorry but I just don't get it.

I was 7 when I played this game for the first time and I was never stuck there. Sure, it's not written anywhere that but it's the same thing as Metroid and "how do I morph ballz lel?": you just try. To me it seemed intuitive that I had to push up and down just like you would push your body to the front and to the back when riding a swing... And even without that, you saw the red box SHOULD somehow move up and down, so you were bound to think "maybe holding the direction will make it go down or up like a lift".

>>987389
Not in these harsh words, but I kinda agree.

>>987456
>At the very least, you should have been able to figure it out after a moment by noticing that the barrels lock you in place and you could use them to jump higher, so you obviously must have some control over them.
This.

>>987650
The entire argument is moot. Same could be said of the spindash: you never HAVE to do a spindash, you can do everything just running until suddenly you face something that REQUIRES it.

This is bullshit, don't think you're taking the mighty road with "it's bad game design", this team made Sonic 1 & 2 before, what do YOU know about game design? Just because you didn't get it doesn't mean it's bad.

Now I may understand that "it took me a while to get it". Sure, even we all have trouble with concepts (in video games or elsewhere) that sometimes feels obvious to everyone but are mystical to us. However, trying to pass the blame to the game is just ridiculous. If you really want to talk about bullshit dificulty in video game, go look for another game.

>> No.988413

>>987517
10/10
I love you Anon.

>>988352
I think he meant Amy Rose was for /fur/

>> No.988426

this shit has nothing on the dance section in Pinocchio on the SNES

>> No.988550

>>987363
It doesn't help that Sonic games are physics centric, the "logical" thing to do in this light is to try and manipulate them by jumping or doing some other physics related activity, pressing the up and down buttons is close to the last thing that would come to mind.

>> No.988553

>>988550
You have 5 fucking actions to pick from; are you that autistic that you keep trying one over and over if it doesn't work?

>> No.988567

>>988410
Pretty sure the manual for Metroid teaches you how to morph ball. This game mechanic is explained NOWHERE. Worse yet, it gives you the false idea that you can jump to get through (it moves a lot when you jump) so most of us got caught up trying that.

Congrats to everyone who can't wrap their head around other children couldn't figure out this puzzle, you all most have been geniuses.

>> No.988570

>>988553
>5 actions
>"Gee, Up and Down make Sonic look up or down, just like the previous 2 games. I obviously don't need that here, and he's never really had to operate anything with those directions anyway."
>2 possibilities eliminated

>> No.988569

>>988406
^^^

It's a classic game design trick. You lock the player in so that they're forced to focus on what's in front of them.

>> No.988571

>>988410
>The entire argument is moot. Same could be said of the spindash: you never HAVE to do a spindash, you can do everything just running until suddenly you face something that REQUIRES it.
Spindashing is explained in all of the instruction manuals. This is a bad comparison.

>> No.988847

I beat it the first time by timing my jumps, but couldn't recreate it the second time. So I checked the internet and then hated myself.

>> No.988968

>>988570
see >>988064

>> No.988985

>>988315
ITS NO USE!

>> No.989181
File: 84 KB, 768x640, Sk_us_manual_06_07.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
989181

>>988567
>>988571
>It wasn't in the manual.
Nothing in the manual told you how to use the spinning top thing in Marble Madness to reach higher places.

Nothing in the manual told you Sonic could use his hands to grab stuff (like the poles in Hydropolis, the lamps in Sandopolis,...).

Nothing in the manual told you that to use the "lifts" in Lava Reef you have to spindash on them to make them go down or up.

Nothing in the manual told you that some parts of Ice Cap and Sandopolis were cyclic loop and that just trying to go to the bottom as fast as possible wouldn't work.

Nothing in the manual told you that you had to spindash when caught by a vine in Mushroom Hill.

Nothing in the manual told you that to turn into Super Sonic you had to jump twice (image related).

The manual tells you about Doomsday Zone but if you don't get there by yourself, good luck reading in the manual how to go there.

Can you see your bullshit now?

And no, it's not "omg you are such geniuses, us peasants have no rights speaking to you" or other nonsense. I got stuck in Metroid too, sometimes I fail badly at games,... It happens. Now to shove it in the game's face as "this is badly designed" is just saying "It's not my fault I can't drive a real car, it's just not the same as Gran Turismo so it's bad".

>> No.989225

I never had problems with that, it was matter of seconds to realize how to do it. The 2nd act was the problem for me, way too long...

Now, that pit in Sonic 2 which you couldn't get out even with Super Sonic was... rage-worth. The first time I was in there was as super sonic and had to wait more than a minute to lose a life.

>> No.989242

What about the secret passages? Ducktales is full of them. Did kids figure that out?
Kids nowadays do not think that way. That’s why we needed to have a cutscene in there to explain you have to look in the walls for a secret.

>> No.989252

>>989181
If a lot of people can't figure something out, and it's not explained, then it is unintuitive design. That's just simple logic.

>> No.989253

>>989181
>Can you see your bullshit now?
No. You are exagerating

>>989242
> That’s why we needed to have a cutscene in there to explain you have to look in the walls for a secret.

I got mad when I read that. Couldn't they just add some random text saying "look for hiding places"? Why cutscenes for that?

>> No.989256

>>989253

no he isnt, the dude just gave you an honest to god list of shit you figure out for yourself.

you have basically five buttons at your disposal. it's not hard to figure out

>> No.989260

>>989253
True. It wasn't explained straight away. Some people got what the developers wanted to do (perhaps from other games experience, I don't know how I got it) and others didn't.

Let's cut the apple in two and admit it's just like a joke. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Here, it didn't work on everyone, it could have been explained a bit better, but it was still a good joke for those who got it.

>> No.989262

>>987484
Ha, I did the same. Was so proud when I figured this out.

>> No.989507

I would love to hear what the designers think of this now.

>> No.989562

I guess looking back on it, the red boxes above and below the barrel gave you the hint to look up and down. Maybe.