/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9864640]

Why did MK have such trouble when it became 3D?

[Anonymous No.9864694]

Retard devs.
That's really all there was to it.

[Anonymous No.9864705]

Jesus Christ I forgot MK4 Reptile existed.

[Anonymous No.9864714]

First off, it came out after Tekken 3 on PSX. Enough said. It'd feel more appropriate in 96-early 97 when it wouldn't get compared to much better fighters.
Second, I think the irony was that MK Trilogy looked better than the clunky early 3D of MK4 with crappy animations. Hell, MK Trilogy outsold MK4, with an impressive figure of 2 mln units (though it must be said that it came out in late '96).
Third, MK4 simply wasn't a very good game, when other fighters like Tekken, Soul Blade, Street Fighter Alpha 3 etc. had actually good gameplay and intuitive controls. The cast was meh too. It looked awkward, it played awkward, it genuinely felt trashy.

[Anonymous No.9864719]

>>9864640
Unironically the best MK game of all time.

[Anonymous No.9864749]

>>9864694
They did Reptile so bad in that game, he gets murdered in his own ending.

[Anonymous No.9864896]

>>9864719
specifically for this scene:
https://youtu.be/jsvfP5BQxaw

[Anonymous No.9864903]

MK4 specifically is barely even 3D. You can side step and that's it, everything else plays exactly like in the previous 2d installments. They developed the system more in Deadly Alliance, giving Shang Tsung a projectile that can function on a 3D plane, etc.

[Anonymous No.9864970]

>>9864640
The guy who came up with the most iconic characters left and you had Ed Boon in charge. If anyone else had put out shit at the rate Boon did they would have been laughed out of the industry. Take the fatalities out of any game after Ultimate MK3 and all you've got left is a shit tier fighting game.

[Anonymous No.9865103]

>>9864640
>MK4
It released a year after Virtua Fighter 3 and looked worse than DoA and VF2.
Also no one cared about new characters and some of them were extra lazy pastiches of older characters made only because journos complained about the kast being stale.
And MK3 was somewhat of a flop in USA already.
But it really is a shame, since it plays better than MK3 and is much closer to MK2 in tone.
>MKDA
Was a big success for Midway actually. Like it literally pulled the company from the bankrupcy.
Considering that MK was no longer big even among the niche fighting genre, I'd say it did well.
Now, I'd say it kinda sucks and Deception is where it's at, but at least it's the most balanced MK from that trilogy for what it's worth.

[Anonymous No.9866741]

>>9864903
>MK4 specifically is barely even 3D.
The character's movements in MK4 were also recorded from actors, the difference is how they did, by using Motion Capture outfits instead of just filming it as they did in 1 2 and 3
>>9864714
>MK Trilogy looked better than the clunky early 3D of MK4 with crappy animations.
The "clunky" movements that you see in early Mortal Kombat games is because they are actual real actor movements and not superficial animations as you see in Street Fighter based games. MK 3 and Trilogy, just increased the speed of these actor movements to make it more like fast animations. This was necessary to improve the gameplay so the character could be in sync with the hand of the player which would be humanly impossible for an actor to do without any special effect. These effects improved gameplay in a way but ruined the actor realism that made both 1 and 2 successful in the first place

[Anonymous No.9867140]

>>9865103
>I'd say it kinda sucks and Deception is where it's at
Hard disagree.
Deception is way more sloppy on a technical level.
They, for some reason, thought that they could hotswap fighting styles between characters and almost every character that even returned ended up getting a new style that totally broke the game to the point they had to implement a very half-assed "breaker" system towards the end of development to curtail "cheapness."
They also tried to mask this with tons of addendums outside of the actual gameplay like konquest, chess kombat or puzzle kombat but that was all superfluous when the actual engine was ass.

[Anonymous No.9867147]

>>9864640
There are more good 3D MK games than bad.

[Anonymous No.9867156]

>>9867147
No there aren't.
MK4 is shit, all of the Renderware games (MKDA-MKD-MKA) are shit, MKvDC is shit.
MK9, X and 11 are the only ones that could be considered good by any objective standard.

[Anonymous No.9867352]

>>9864714
Yep, MK’s art direction was awful in 3D. It should have looked like Silent Hill but instead it looked like Mario 64.

[Anonymous No.9867359]

>>9864749
>They did Reptile so bad in that game, he gets murdered in his own ending.
kek based
Fuck Reptile players
>>9864896
Is this real of a parody? It's like something a genuinely retarded fan would make.

[Anonymous No.9867369]

the novelty had worn off. mk2 was the peak (on a casual level) even though umk3 was the funnest to play competitively. couple that with the fact that mk4 was indeed hideous, and it was clear that the series had jumped the shark. i played and enjoyed deadly alliance and deception (whichi was way better) but they were all pretty fugly.

[Anonymous No.9867619]

Sincere question: Are there any 2D fighting game franchises that have had a good transition to 3D? Most of these games try to imitate Tekken or Virtual Fighter for a few years before going back to their roots or 2.5D.

[Anonymous No.9867657]

>>9867619
No..
MK, SF and KOF all dabbled in 3D and it took a while before any of them got a clue and went back to 2D/2.5D.

[Anonymous No.9867686]

>>9864640
Because one of the main reasons it was fun, was from it being recorded from actual people on a motion capture to make it realistic. The 3d got rid of the best part.

[Anonymous No.9867747]

>>9867686
If only they used the same texturing technique that they used in WarGods to make them look real

[Anonymous No.9867776]

>>9867359
>Is this real of a parody?
It's real, and while it's technically Jax's ending, it's pretty much also Sonya's and Jarek's endings.

[Anonymous No.9868090]

>>9867140
No, I get what you're saying and you're correct. It's just that I like the roster and side content of Deception much more, despite the core gameplay getting rougher. Or rather, gameplay itself is hardly what I'm looking for in MK games at all. If it's good, it's good. If it's broken as fuck, like in Armageddon - whatever gotta kreate-a-fighter and beat some Meat while thinking up new infinites, before hoping on karts for a bit.

[Anonymous No.9868101]

>>9867747
>Look
Until they start moving and they look stilted and janky as fuck.

[Anonymous No.9868119]

>>9867619
Not to my knowledge, but that's expected.
SF EX series was made by Arika, and it was honestly kinda whatever. if they wanted good 3D SF, Capcom should have made it themselves.
KoF Maximum Impact was also made by a sort of a side series. It isn't as good as the mainline one, though regulation A has its fans.
With these, people often complained how they tried too hard to be Tekken. That was part of the negative attitude to them.
However, MK Deadly Alliance was actually met with relative success. Perhaps one game that I've seen actually positive reviews back in the day. But now almost forgotten like all 3D MK.
That was the whole issue. Devs almost never put full effort into those 3D games, these were always side games and half-assed efforts. They were full of jank, half-assed movesets and mechanics that tried to emulate Tekken, but missed what made it good. Tekken and VF actually fleshed out their formula, balance, movesets and so on; that's why they felt good, and not just some button mashers.
In case of MKDA, I think it was kind of the opposite, they embraced 3D and actually started treating gameplay more seriously. they tried to come up with something interesting at least. other games just made a lazy transition to 3D and called it a day.

[Anonymous No.9868228]

>>9867156
Remove Deadly Alliance from shit and add 11 in it's place.

[Anonymous No.9868346]

MK4 was great, stop parroting reddit talk points and form an independent though once in your life.

[Anonymous No.9868359]

>>9868346
It sold poorly regardless. Imagine coming out 1 month after Tekken 3.
Also, I'm yet to see any serious tournaments for MK4. UMK3 has a decent scene

[Anonymous No.9868372]

>>9868359
UMK3 is much more easily available and got a lot of nostalgia from people from poorer countries playing it on chinese Mega Drive clones.
MK4 arcade emulation sucks, PS1 and N64 are worse versions, MK Gold sucks and setting up the PC version multiplayer is a pain in the ass and it's wonky.

[Anonymous No.9868458]

>>9868359
>Imagine coming out 1 month after Tekken 3.
Imagine while still owning a N64 and not a PS1 to play Tekken 3

[Anonymous No.9868525]

>>9868346
Most of the new characters were lame/generic, they just weren't up to par with the crazy characters introduced in the other games, so having them replace the older more interesting ones feels fucked up and makes the game feel a little empty since anybody is only ever going to choose the returning old characters

[Anonymous No.9868552]

>>9868525
>crazy characters introduced in the other games
such as yellow ninja
or blue ninja
or red ninja
or green ninja
or purple ninja
or black ninja
or red robot
or yellow robot
or purple robot
or native American
or cop

[Anonymous No.9868557]

>>9868552
Don't forget blue female ninja, green female ninja and especially purple female ninja.

[Anonymous No.9868640]

>>9868552
>>9868557
Don't forget that the graphics and gameplay were groundbreaking, you revisionist fucks.

[Anonymous No.9868663]

>>9868640
>graphics
yes
>gameplay
really, anon? SF2 basically established the whole 2D fighting genre as we know it. MK was a cheap copy of it. what exactly was groundbreaking about it? it got big because of blood, cool chars and fatalities, the gameplay never was its strong suit.

[Anonymous No.9868736]

>>9868663
>what exactly was groundbreaking about it?
Really, dude, reaaaallly?
>blood
yes, it was ground breaking, VERY few games went beyond pure cartoon and they were almost exclusively 100% shit
>fatalities
if i have to tell you why this was groundbreaking then just stop reading right here and go back to humping your wikis. do you even know about the stage-based fatality?
>special moves
yeah, they definitely added nothing to street fighter's fireball, spin kick, and spam-punch special moveset. faggot.
Acting like MK brought nothing to the table because it shows its age 25 fucking years later is pure dumbassery. You want nothing but cartoony engrish games? Then go focus on those games, nothing is stopping you.

[Anonymous No.9868748]

>>9864640
Same happened when Street Fighter did it, and Fatal Fury, and King of Fighters. The 2D fighter meta doesn't translate easily to polygons with physics and 3D collision detection and so on. What they ended up doing were games that are only 3D graphically but functionally 2D.

[Anonymous No.9868747]

>>9868736
blood is gameplay? fatalities are gameplay? I was talking about the gameplay.
>they definitely added nothing to street fighter's fireball, spin kick, and spam-punch special moveset.
they added a bunch of cool specials, while almost taking away command grabs and a lot of other cool interesting moves. they also gave everyone copypasted projectiles and stun moves.
try learning a single 2D fighter beside MK sometime.

[Anonymous No.9868749]

>>9864896
Do you also watch porn for the story?

[Anonymous No.9868752]

>>9868640
>graphics
Eh. I wouldn't exactly call them groundbreaking, but sure they were both decent and one of the best looking series that used realistic digitized graphics, even if it stole the idea from Pit Fighter.
>gameplay
Sure, general features from Street Fighter 2, bonuses from Art of Fighting, boss from World Heroes, fatalities from Barbarian: The Ultimate Warrior. Very groundbreaking.
Oh, wait, you must've meant wacky shit like a separate button for block. Which is useless for 2D fighting games and opens up a can of worms with the infamous glitch jabs.
MK1 was kind of a trashy game, carried mainly by shock factor and atmosphere at the time.

Unless you meant MK3 specifically in which case it's even funnier, since people kinda hated it and it flopped. Graphics were somewhat better than MK2, but not by a lot and art design suffered. Run and combos weren't new in fighting games and people didn't really care about that. As a reminder, Killer Instinct was already out by that time.
But yes, MK4 fared and looked even worse. The gameplay was better though and return of MK1-2 feel in art design was welcome.

[Anonymous No.9868759]

>>9868748
>Fatal Fury
Wild Ambition was alright and series was already semi-3D with how multiple lanes were treated in Real Bout games.
SamSho was the one that translated horribly in Hyper NeoGeo 64 game, as well as Sen.

[Anonymous No.9868769]

>>9868747
>>9868752
>MK wasn't groundbreaking if you ignore the ground it broke
retards
>MK3 a flop
double retard, you get this retarded shit from some clickbait garbage?

[Anonymous No.9868775]

>>9864705
And he's thicc. Also worst. ending. ever

[Anonymous No.9868776]

>>9868769
I already told you that presentation was groundbreaking, not the gameplay. Characters, blood and fatalities are presentation. Do you always go in circles like this?

[Anonymous No.9868778]

>>9867156
>MK 11
>objectively better
Yeah, ok troon. Enjoy your lisping, Harry Potter spewing version of Noob Saibot. Don't forget to tell me to fuck off back to /v/ through the tears.

[Anonymous No.9868780]

>>9868640
>>9868747
>>9868769
Love how you never point out how exactly MK was groundbreaking and just keep using vague arguments that don't mean anything like "they added a bunch of cool specials" or "a lot of other cool interesting moves".

[Anonymous No.9868948]

>>9868769
If you ignore shit that made the game worse, MK didn't do a single thing that wasn't done before, yes.
And yes, MK3 underperformed hard compared to MK1 and MK2 success. UMK3 tried to course correct, but the damage was made and some people didn't even know that it was a thing at the time.

[Anonymous No.9869043]

>>9867747
It was fun back then because it was new tech and looked somewhat real. The cartoon stuff made it a lot less realistic. Same reason why the original arcade over the modern one. Politics killed everything (not only video) because they got paranoid of the violence. They could just make a non-blood version and take the fatalities out then have another version for adults in arcades. The cartoon one is just as violent so it doesn't make sense anyway

[Anonymous No.9869316]

>>9864640
A lot of games had trouble going from 2D to 3D

[Anonymous No.9869479]

>>9868119
>Not to my knowledge, but that's expected.
SF EX series was made by Arika, and it was honestly kinda whatever. if they wanted good 3D SF, Capcom should have made it themselves.
Arika was Capcom itself, as it was formed by Akira Nishitani most of the team behind SF2, Final Fight and Darkstalkers, among others.
And it's a great game, that had nothing in common with Tekken.

[Anonymous No.9869518]

>>9868119
>if they wanted good 3D SF, Capcom should have made it themselves.
You mean Rival Schools?

[Anonymous No.9869602]

>>9868776
>moving goalposts
>video games aren't about anything video
fuck you, you'll pick apart anything just to be "correct" on the internet
>>9868780
>Love how you never point out how exactly MK was groundbreaking
love how you niglets have shit reading comprehension, go back to your crt quarantine thread
>>9868948
>MK didn't do a single thing that wasn't done before
>muh sales figures
holy revisionist wiki history fucking fuck

>well ackshually this game
>well ackshually that game
Nobody gives a fuck, and nobody definitely gave a fuck when MK was released. You want to know why? Because those games that used some elements MK incorporated? They were shit. Like Pit Fighter? Shit. Pit Fighter was shit. Not "well of course it's bad now, MK is pretty janky in comparison to modern games"... no, it was shit on release.
You don't get to be the first caveman to claim to invent the wheel if that shit falls over on your foot and you die of an infection before you can get it to do a single revolution. Fuck you Unga Bungas that say otherwise. One of you sub-saharans even claimed a game that came out AFTER MK was an inspiration to MKs gameplay. God damn.

[Anonymous No.9869635]

>>9864896
>1:08
>I'M SO GAY!!!
Well, at least he found the courage to come out of the closet before dying.

[Anonymous No.9869675]

>>9868552
Yeah, those are themes. As much as they used ninjas, it's because colorful ninjas with different themes/poers was popular and cool.

You have to be a child of the 80s or early 90s to get the ninja obsession.

[Anonymous No.9869814]

>>9868552
Brown Scorpion's fatality gives you aids.