/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9827291]

How powerful was the Dreamcast in the long run? Hypothetically if it survived could it have kept up with the PS2/GCN/Xbox?

[Anonymous No.9827295]

>>9827291
Yes, no console ever needed to be more powerful than the DC.

[Anonymous No.9827301]

Not really. Technologically it was in an awkward position of being more powerful than psx/n64 but less so than ps2/gamecube. Frankly it was too beautiful for this world.

[Anonymous No.9827307]

>>9827301
Right. That generation was when most games were going multiplatform so I wonder if the DC would have been left out in the cold or had very shitty versions.

[Anonymous No.9827310]

>>9827301
>>9827307
Every DC/PS2 multiplat ran better on DC

[Anonymous No.9827316]

>>9827310
Those all started on DC though. The situation might be worse off for it if games were going in the reverse.

[Anonymous No.9827319]

>>9827310
The DC was easier to port to because of its Microsoft CE base. PS2 used Linux.

[Anonymous No.9827393]

>>9827291
It couldn't do pixel/vertex shading type effects and it didn't have the power to do it in software like the PS2. It would've lost out in a year or two max simply due to other consoles having a ton better effects and having more cpu power for more complex scenes..
If they go batshit insane and convert the Naomi 2 into a Dreamcast 2, then it would've been somewhere between the PS2 and Gamecube.

>>9827319
DC was easy to port to because Sega learned from the mistake with the Saturn and had great devkit libraries from the get go this time around. You could pretty much drop your game into it and have it run fine.

CE was an optional thing and most of the time it sucked.

[Anonymous No.9827619]

>>9827319
>The DC was easier to port to because of its Microsoft CE base. PS2 used Linux.
Windows CE was an optional development environment for the DC. Sega also had their own development libraries. There's like 70 or so games that use Windows CE. The upside was that it is essentially a Windows development environment. Making it easy for some devs to get into. It also made some PC games a little easier to port too. But devs still had to take into consideration of the DC limitations. Windows CE also has worse performance than Segas own libraries. The higher end wince 3d games would have frame rate issues. WindowsCE was a good option for smaller scale games. It also made porting from DC to PC easier.

[Anonymous No.9827632]

It would have survived on soul alone. Sega just didn't have the balls to see it through, and thats why Sega always lost, no balls. Nintendo never backed down from their most retarded decisions.

[Anonymous No.9827647]

>>9827619
The Windows CE base means that developers could use Windows based elements such as DirectX.

[Anonymous No.9827648]

>>9827319
PS2 games did not use Linux.

[Anonymous No.9827650]

>>9827632
>Nintendo never backed down from their most retarded decisions.

With the exception of image related

[Anonymous No.9827656]

>>9827291
Its GPU would have held it back. It was far less advanced than the xbox one and less flexible than the PS2 one. You wouldn't have seen shaders on it.

[Anonymous No.9827667]

Sega would have had to upgrade the controller. Games started rapidly requiring dual analog sticks that would have been unplayable on Dreamcast.

[Anonymous No.9827669]

>>9827632
I think they didn't have the money to see it through after spending it on all of their other consoles. The Virtual Boy was pretty bad but probably didn't cost Nintendo as much money as Saturn cost SEGA.

[Anonymous No.9827723]

Nintendo is always the cringe soulless option in every Gen:

SNES vs Genesis (more soulful, admittedly lacking in RPGs)

Saturn vs N64/PSX (Nintendo is the LEAST soulful of the 3 by a country fucking mile, no games)

GC vs PS2 vs Xbox (again, GC is least soulful by a long shot. I would argue Xbox has more soul but PS2 has a much larger library.)

I actually love the PSX, but it's utter dominance hurt the games market in my opinion by putting Sega in such dire straits that the Dreamcast couldn't be sustained long term. I actually think the PSX being such a great console hurt gaming in the long run. Sega was, and still is, retarded, but them exiting the console market was a net negative, and Nintendo filling the void with endless bing copies does a poor job of filling Sega's shoes.

[Anonymous No.9827730]

>>9827632
Fax

[Anonymous No.9827765]

>>9827723
Honestly, genuinely agree. They produce some good stuff once in a while, but they're really hit and miss.

I unironically feel people really overvalue/overhype a lot of their IPs outside of Mario and Zelda. I think they see a lot of their success due to their penchant for polishing games to a T which creates the illusion of a fully realized product (even if that's not always the case) AND also creating games that happen to be family-friendly. I don't want to name any specific IPs since it'll juts hurt fans of those series but I'm just tired of holding this opinion in. I've tried so hard to like a lot of their series but I just really don't. The main series of theirs I ever liked were F-Zero, Rhythm Tengoku, Kururin, Sin & Punishment (Treasure) and Mario.

>I actually think the PSX being such a great console hurt gaming in the long run.
Genuinely agree. Sony just fucking smashed the market up to an insane rate, knocking Sega out of hardware and Nintendo survived by the skin of their teeth and were relegated to handhelds for the forseeable future.

[Anonymous No.9827813]

Nintendo has always been for casuals and redditors

[Anonymous No.9827938]

>>9827765
The PS1 needed to be the success it was. Pent up energy and desire to finally experiment with new technology finally hitting the point where it's matured, runs well and can actually earn money. 3D became practical and finally could be done well, CDs were much better and far more mature, and things became much cheaper. It was the right console at the right time, it had to be it.

[Anonymous No.9827941]

>>9827319
Might’ve been an advantage for it in the long run

[Anonymous No.9827959]

>>9827647
>The Windows CE base means that developers could use Windows based elements such as DirectX.

As far as I know, the Dreamcast GPU is basically a Neon 250, by VideoLogic. Or based on this GPU. Though the NEON 250 has 32MB of VRAM, and was trying to compete with other GPU's like the Nvidia TNT2 cards. But the Neon 250 apparently had some pretty awful D3D driver support and wasn't received very well. But it could do DirectX. The source code for Spirit of Sound was released to the public months ago. Spirit of Sound uses WindowsCE and looking at the source code, it does use DirectX draw calls for the graphics.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/videologic-neon-250-review,131-10.html

WindowsCE was an interesting addition to the Dreamcast. WindowsCE was made for embedded devices and low specced devices, like PDA's, notebook devices. It wasn't even something that was made for the DC. because of the DC's limited RAM, WindowsCE did take up extra overhead. One of the earliest games made for Windows CE on the DC was Sega Rally 2. The port was done by Sega AM Annex group, one of the programmers basically said that in this case, they did make the Windows port first, and used WindowsCE to port the Windows game to the Dreamcast. The original arcade game was model 3. One of the biggest issues with the port was the inconsistent 60fps framerate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pEqiehbwHY

PC port is identical to the DC game. But could run at higher resolution of 800x600 and could have a solid 60fps framerate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-ahUj9qqsI&t=81s

[Anonymous No.9827965]

>>9827291
I love my Dreamcast but dear God no.

[Anonymous No.9827975]

doa2 and le mans prove it could

[Anonymous No.9827976]

>>9827965
What if sega tomorrow was like ok we’re going to make a dreamcast 2 that’s intentionally similar graphics to the first, and it’s backwards compatible and we’ve got dev kits ready to send out, do you think it would be popular with indie devs and the type? There’s obviously no expectations with regards to
Graphics or modern gameplay this way. I’ve always wondered why someone holding the patents to an old or failed console doesn’t try something like this and get some money out of the retro or hobbyist community.

[Anonymous No.9827985]

The Dreamcast would shit itself trying to run GTA3.

[Anonymous No.9828003]

>>9827985
>The Dreamcast would shit itself trying to run GTA3.

Rockstar originally had plans to port GTA3 to the Dreamcast. I don't know how well it would have looked in comparison. GTA3 uses the Criterion RenderWare engine. Which was also one of the most used third party game engines for 6th gen consoles. the only two Dreamcast games that use a version of the Renderware engine are Trickstyle and Stunt GP. the Renderware engine did have Dreamcast support. So GTA3 could have been possible. But it also would have probably had some cutbacks in the graphics department. Lower draw distances, worse framerate.

https://youtu.be/wmLeZddlVJ4

[Anonymous No.9828007]

>>9828003
It was probably more similar to the beta visuals and running on DC

[Anonymous No.9828012]

>>9827319
It was the primordial Xbox.

[Anonymous No.9828024]

>>9828007
>It was probably more similar to the beta visuals and running on DC

I'm pretty sure some of those early GTA3 screenshots ended up in the Official Dreamcast magazine. I had a subscription to that magazine. Subbed for the demo discs mostly. Rockstar did support the Dreamcast too. They ported GTA2 over to the console, without WindowsCE. They also ported Wild Metal to the DC using WindowsCE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kCDTzl69us&t=267s

They also had an Austin Powers kart racer planned for the Dreamcast, that was cancelled. Max Payne was planned for the DC. But the game was delayed until 2001.

[Anonymous No.9828027]

>>9828024
>Austin Powers kart racer planned for the Dreamcast

It was called Austin Powers: Mojo racer, and probably would have used the renderware engine. This was an original DC game.

[Anonymous No.9828078]

>>9827650
They still took some lessons from it, I remember the very first prototype GCN controllers being shown and noticing that they were mostly the VB controller

[Anonymous No.9828087]

>>9827291
It might have been able to close the gap some if it had a DVD drive so that games could have higher quality textures and sound. But ultimately it's GPU was never fast enough to complete with PS2/GC and Xbox.

[Anonymous No.9828103]

>>9828087
the sh4 handles most of the grunt work so it's more that the cpu wouldn't be fast enough

[Anonymous No.9828115]

>>9828103
True, calling it a GPU is a misnomer. Whatever you want to call it, the 3D rendering performance falls way short of what the PS2 was capable of.

I love my Dreamcast, but releasing only 1 year before the PS2 would have killed the console no matter how hard they tried.

[Anonymous No.9828129]

>>9827976
>get some money out of the retro or hobbyist community.
srsly? it would flunk because of lack of mass appeal, hobbyists/retros is a playerbase of like 20 ppl. That sounds worse than the ouija.

[Anonymous No.9828131]

>>9827650
Nintendo is very good at pivoting out of a disaster. The Virtual Boy was really just a hold over to cover the gap created from the N64 delay. The launch lineup wasn't even bad. They just decided to can it before any more games came out. Then with the Wii U they quietly ported everything worth a damn to the Switch.

[Anonymous No.9828136]

>>9827291
I think the Dreamcast's power is very-comparable to that of the PSP. Any 6th game you can think of that was ported to the PSP will give you a basic idea of how a Dreamcast port would have likely faired.

[Anonymous No.9828141]

Game design went through a major change up during the PS2 generation. I can't imagine the Dreamcast doing anything that would have stood up against God of War or Jak II. I guess it would have gotten DOA3 and Panzer Dragoon Orta instead of the Xbox? That might have helped keep it stable for a bit but it would have rapidly started lagging.

[Anonymous No.9828151]

>>9827632
Sega didn't back down, problem was they simply didn't have the income to sustain themselves after spending so much of it on:

>Shenmue, the single most expensive AAA console video game produced to date, even over FFVII but didn't have the universal appeal to be a big seller overseas.
>Sega Model 3 arcade boards, very popular games but at the cost of insanely expensive, space age, state-of-the-art military tech mass-produced to power it.
>Sega Nomad, a bulky handheld Genesis that was just too niche to be profitable.
>Sega Saturn, a soulful but ill-fated home console that flopped outside of Japan due to a botched launch and the catastrophic failure of Sonic X-Treme's development.
>Sega 32X, a retardedly ill-conceived Genesis add-on that did nothing for Sega but bleed them dry with manufacturing costs and cannibalize potential Saturn sales.

[Anonymous No.9828156]

>>9827291
Gamecube was the most powerful

[Anonymous No.9828181]

>>9828141
If the Dreamcast kept going it would have also had Virtua Fighter 4 ported to it which was a very popular game

[Anonymous No.9828185]

>>9828181
And I guess a version of Soul Calibur II? It'd probably be fine up to about 2004 or so. After that things would very quickly start going south though.

[Anonymous No.9828194]

>>9828131
>The Virtual Boy was really just a hold over to cover the gap created from the N64 delay.

I remember playing a Virtual Boy at a kiosk, and it was Mario Tennis. It was kind of cool. Game was actually a fun tennis game. The scaling effect was alright. The 3D effect looked good. It didn't hold my attention long. Also played Red Alert, the Star-Fox like vector game with the wire frame meshes. It was kinda impressive from a visual standpoint. I was impressed with the cool wire frame 3D. But that game had some bad pop-in and was a bit hard to play. Cool showcase of the hardware, anyway. I also played that Mario Clash game, that is the OG Mario Bros. But with a 3D 2-layer perspective. Where Mario scales up and down a 3D plane. It plays like classic Mario Bros. but does add some platforming elements. Only played this for a little bit. Never played Wario Land. Looks like the best of the bunch. It's interesting hardware. But easy to see why it failed. VR was trying to be a thing in 1995. There was also the jaguar VR Headset that was shown at E3 95. The Virtual Boy was shown at E3 95. Sega had that VR headset planned. There was also the Hasbro VR headset. 1995 was a weird time for VR.

[Anonymous No.9828196]

>>9828194
>Mario's Tennis
Corrected myself.

[Anonymous No.9828225]

>>9827291
Think of home consoles as amusements. The CPU, RAM, etc isn't going to decide which system is going to win, thwre are many more factors. Look at the history.

[Anonymous No.9828228]

>>9827319
Did the GameCube hardware reuse M2 PowerPC?

[Anonymous No.9828231]

>>9827648
Why?


https://www.youtu.be/0ckUinOiQzc

[Anonymous No.9828253]

>>9828181
>If the Dreamcast kept going it would have also had Virtua Fighter 4 ported to it which was a very popular game

I was always a bit mixed on Virtua Fighter 3: TB's visuals on the DC. I never played the arcade game back in the day. I have played VF1 and VF2 in the arcades. I have had both on the Saturn. Had a copy of VF3:TB for the DC. Put quite a bit of time into the game. Mostly as Wolf or Pai. It plays fine. But always looked a little disappointing. Comparing the game side by side with the model 3. It is a step down in textures, and meshes too.
https://youtu.be/FJsdwrrOoTg?t=201

Fighting Vipers 2, which I never had, looks like a much better Model 3 port:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCeajQ9Ez7k

I think AM2 may have said in the past that they were planning on porting VF4 to the Dreamcast. maybe by AM2?

[Anonymous No.9828254]

>>9828194
The Virtual Boy was ahead of it's time. It couldn't do what it wanted to for a remotely reasonable price so they cut corners. But if you look at the controller the Virtual Boy is like a mid-1990s interpretation of what would eventually be modern VR controllers.

[Anonymous No.9828296]

>>9828254
>The Virtual Boy was ahead of it's time. It couldn't do what it wanted to for a remotely reasonable price so they cut corners. But if you look at the controller the Virtual Boy is like a mid-1990s interpretation of what would eventually be modern VR controllers.

I don;t know if it was 'ahead of its' time' because in 1995, there were expensive VR headsets and VR-arcades with Doom and Decent and Mech Warrior. Atari were showing off this VR headset in 1995, that was really impressive. Not just Atari. Other companies were trying to get on the VF craze. That didn't take off. Nintendo was one of the few who actually did release a VR headset. A stationary one. It was unique. The hardware is 32bit. It did not take off.

[Anonymous No.9828305]

>>9828296
It was a money thing. Nobody was able to get one out in 1995 for a price that people would be willing to pay. The Virtual Boy could have been full color. The tech existed. But blue and green LEDs were just too expensive.

[Anonymous No.9828325]

>>9828305
>It was a money thing. Nobody was able to get one out in 1995 for a price that people would be willing to pay. The Virtual Boy could have been full color. The tech existed. But blue and green LEDs were just too expensive.

Yeah, Nintendo had the cheapest one. Atari couldn't make the VR headset cheap enough. To be honest, what they shown off at E3 1995 was kinda impressive. Only a 50 degree field of view. 60hz? Early LCD. This tech demo looked really cool. It was behind closed doors.
https://youtu.be/fC9ZJWHFjhc?t=739

Sega had this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd98RGxad0U
VR on the Genesis/ MD sounded like a bad idea.
VR was such a weird gamble in the mid 90's.

[Anonymous No.9828330]

>>9828325
Atari couldn't even get their CD add-on working right. Their engineers would do all kinds of crazy things but then it'd be like "ok, now do that but for 1/4 of the price."

[Anonymous No.9828354]

What's the most graphically impressive thing on the dreamcast? Shenmue I guess? Not counting fighting games because they're more limited in scope.
Any tech demos that show off anything particularly impressive?
How much more could the eke out of the system?

[Anonymous No.9828367]

>>9828325

Yeah ok, but let's say they wait till mid to late N64 lifespan, and blue/green LEDs come down in price. Imagine full color VB not as a stand alone console, but as a 3D viewer peripheral for N64 games.

[Anonymous No.9828372]

>>9828003
>Rockstar originally had plans to port GTA3 to the Dreamcast
>port
it was originally developed on the dreamcast

[Anonymous No.9828376]

>>9828354
>Shenmue I guess

Shenmue II
24 Hour LeMans
F355 Ferrari Super Challenge
Metropolis Street Racer (lot of racing games)
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Rayman 2
Sonic Adventure 2
Ecco The Dolphin Defender of the Future
D2 (but its a weird game)
Quake III
UT99 (I actually like this version, but it aint the PC game)
PSO

[Anonymous No.9828379]

>>9828367
By the N64's release the Virtual Boy would have been pointless. What could have helped is if the Virtual Boy were backwards compatible with Game Boy carts. Most wouldn't have been 3D but it could have been sold as a nifty way to make Game Boy games futuristic and you'd have a giant library from the start. Then some games could have pulled a Super Game Boy thing where they'd be normal GB games but would play in 3D if played on a Virtual Boy.

[Anonymous No.9828383]

>>9828376
The texture quality in Sonic Adventure 2 is insane

[Anonymous No.9828385]

>>9828372
>it was originally developed on the dreamcast

I wasn't sure if it was multi-platform or not. Considering that Rockstar did have some success on the PS1 with GTA 1, 2 and London, a PS2 release of GTAIII would have been obvious.

[Anonymous No.9828389]

>>9828383
>The texture quality in Sonic Adventure 2 is insane

To be honest with you. I still love the look of the original Dreamcast Sonic Adventure. textures were impressive for that game at the time of its' release.

[Anonymous No.9828394]

>>9828376
>Code Veronica
That's a pretty good one. And Ecco.
D2 was cool but I ragequit at the last boss because it makes you mash buttons without any audio or visuals. But yeah, pretty game.
I don't think any of them come close to RE4 though. I was hoping for some hidden gem that maybe squeezed some impressive graphics out of the DC.
Can't speak for the racing games though, I never really got into them save a few.

Was skimming through YouTube tech demos and it seems they all got surpassed by release titles.

[Anonymous No.9828402]

>>9828376
Dreamcast UT cut Assault mode. Bad port desu.

[Anonymous No.9828439]

>>9828394
>Was skimming through YouTube tech demos and it seems they all got surpassed by release titles.

Half-Life, while not as good as the PS2 game, still kind of impressive for the DC. This version was where Blue-Shift and the HD Model pack were derived from. This port was never released.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC2wvZNWAG8

I always though Propeller Arena looked really good, it was cancelled as well due to 9/11:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NibToKhohrI

Skies of Arcadia looked good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PehNkLb1DxU

But, yeah the DC never had anything on the same level as Resident Evil 4. Dreamcast was like... the 3DO of the 6th generation. It came out before the PS2 by almost a couple years. It was impressive for 1998 and 1999. games like Code Veronica were impressive in the sense that the cnsole was doing solid looking 3D with real time BG's and some good looking cinematic models. But the PowerPC/ ATi combo in the GameCube was better hardware. The Xbox was a PIII with a Geforce 3. The VideoLogic chip in the Dc could does not come close to a GeForce 256 (the first GeForce) and the GeForce 3 (third generation) in the Xbox was like a ti with an extra shader unit. It could barely compete with the Nvidia TNT2, which was a card that was pre-GeForce. The PS2 was undoubtedly more powerful when it comes to polygon numbers and has some fixed shader functions. But in some ways the Dreamcast could look better than the PS2. Dreamcast could have hung on with much more colourful and arcadey-like games. But it would have never matched the other consoles. Shame that Sega didn't keep it alive for a few extra years and go third party.

[Anonymous No.9828480]

>>9828439
>GeForce 3 (third generation) in the Xbox was like a ti with an extra shader unit

I think something like Double S.T.E.A.L. shows off the GeForce 3 really well:
https://youtu.be/debqxGklvCs?t=44

It is the sequel to Wreckless: The Yakuza missions. Which was a cheesy Xbox launch title, but it was an impressive tech demo. The sequel is also impressive. On the Dreamcast, you would have something like Super Runabout or Crazy Taxi 1 or 2.

Super Runabout uses WindowsCE as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAI6VCU7sKc

[Anonymous No.9828614]

>>9828376
dead or alive 2 has really nice textures and lighting that look on par with the fighting games that generation and it actually pushes more polygons than tekken tag tournament believe it or not (2.5 million vs 2 million)

[Anonymous No.9828643]

>>9827959
>had some pretty awful D3D driver support
DirectX was designed for obsolete 2d triangle accelerators, as such was never a good fit for PowerVR.

[Anonymous No.9828649]

>>9827723
>I actually think the PSX being such a great console hurt gaming in the long run.

Interesting, makes me wonder how 5th gen had played out if Sony didnt go through with their initial playstation design and just skipped out of the marked completely.

Just Sega vs Nintendo? (And Saturn could get Final Fantasy because of CDs)
Would Microsoft still join the party in 6th gen?
Would Sega and Nintendo today still be the massive assholes to developers they were back in the 90s?
And Nintendo would not have been pushed out of the market as hard as they did, so no need for unorthodox Wii/WiiU/Switch designs but just standard consoles

[Anonymous No.9828752]

>>9828643
How does it feel to live with so few brain cells floating in your skull?

[Anonymous No.9829051]

>>9828372
>it was originally developed on the dreamcast

Head Hunter is the closest thing to a GTA3 game that we got:
https://youtu.be/7PhlS6IBqls?t=9

head Hunter doesn't look to bad. But has pretty barren landscapes. I don;t think devs fully tapped out the DC, because itw as only on the market for less than 4 years. But late entries like Shenmue II and Head Hunter did show improvements.

[Anonymous No.9829392]

>>9827291
>Hypothetically if it survived could it have kept up with the PS2/GCN/Xbox?
only with third party support would have kept up

[Anonymous No.9829415]

name of the game is the games, if the DC kept putting out fun games and was known as the arcade console/fun console/weird console it probably could have, by filling a niche product that Nintendo would not go on to fill with the GC for example. Sure the Wii would fill that niche later, but that was long after.

[Anonymous No.9829427]

Fun fact, it’s possible to increase the RAM on the Dreamcast, though you’d also need to increase the GPU and Sound RAM before you could theoretically run Naomi games natively, though I hope someone works on those as well.

[Anonymous No.9829434]

>>9827291
Yes. No one will ever need more than 640kb ram.

[Anonymous No.9829456]

The rendering was fine, the problem was load times. I got a Dreamcast specifically for Skies of Arcadia, and I dropped that game after a day. The loading was HORRENDOUS. You start the game in your literal airship, then you move like, 2 pixels on the world map, and there's a random encounter that takes minutes to load, with each 3D enemy loading in separately even though they're the same model, and then you use a skill and it plays shitty ass full blown 30-second unskippable cutscenes to kill a sky snail or whatever, then another agonizing loading screen before you're back on the map and repeat the same thing. Literally un-fucking-playable.

Shenmue was more tolerable, but the loads were still brutal in II, especially going between all those Kowloon areas.

[Anonymous No.9829586]

>>9828253
VF3 looks disappointing not because it is a bad port but because it is a 1996 game released in 1998. It's the same as how Saturn launched with VF1 which looked like ass because it was a 1992 game.

[Anonymous No.9829837]

I imagine the GD-ROM would have become a huge issue as the generation progressed. Even the GCN started having some problems down the road and those were 1.5GB discs.

[Anonymous No.9829847]

>>9829586
Sega really went out of it's way to not have it's arcade and console divisions cooperate. They kept putting out arcade hardware that was so advanced out of of sync with their console hardware it made home ports either suck or delayed like crazy until the next generation. Meanwhile Namco was like "yeah, let's just stick some more RAM onto a PlayStation" and started pumping out excellent home conversions for Sony.

[Anonymous No.9829916]

>>9827632
Wii U

[Anonymous No.9830272]

>>9829586
>VF3 looks disappointing not because it is a bad port but because it is a 1996 game released in 1998.

I really was disappointed that VF3 wasn't closer to the arcade game. What you got on the DC was still pretty good. But a step down in visual presentation from the model 3 board. None of the Model 3 DC ports were better than the original arcade game counterparts. Fighting Vipers 2 comes close. But the arcade game still has effects and higher resolution textures and such. Sega Rally 2 seems like it should have been better. But the framerate was inconsistent due to it running on WindowsCE. The PC port was superior if you had the right hardware. But neither of them look as good as the original Model 3 game. I remember when Scud Race was slated for the Dreamcast. I was disappointed when it never came out. There were tech demos of Scud Race running on the Dreamcast shown in various gaming magazines, back in the day. Those tech demos did get 'leaked' to the public. It looks like the Dreamcast struggles to run the game at the same framerate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ZyI_x_zVk

I think Model 3 games look incredible. Even though something like Virtua fighter 3 doesn't look as good as something like Soul Calibur or DOA2 on the DC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5ibeoJnVrw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k73mANNwjY

[Anonymous No.9830351]

>>9829051
GTA2 is closer to GTA3 than Headhunter is. Headhunter was marketed as Sega's MGS at the time

[Anonymous No.9830406]

>>9830272
Hows Model 1/2/3 emulation? I heard the emulators are pretty undermaintained and MAME is about 700 years away from supporting them.

[Anonymous No.9830857]

>>9830406

MAME emulates the model 1. Virtua Fighter 1 and Virtua Racing run really well. It can even run Virtua Racing in widescreen.

The standalone Model 2 Emulator is great. Games can be hacked to run in widescreen. I play it a lot with my wheel and it feels arcade perfect. It supports force feedback.

I haven't played a lot with Supermodel but from the little time I did try it out ran perfectly well.

[Anonymous No.9830964]

>>9830857
Nice, I've been thinking of getting both a light gun and a racing wheel and getting autistic with arcade emulation, already got a fight stick too.

[Anonymous No.9830982]

>>9827291
Answered many times and obviously: no. Really limited regarding shading and normal/bump mapping and weak polygonal budget compared to all 3. Not to mention the controller and low storage discs gimping it. Maxed out games for PS2/GC looked whole gen ahead and Xbox blew it out from the start.

[Anonymous No.9830989]

>>9828372
Honestly, that explains a lot. It's not a looker and doesn't do a lot of "next gen" stuff. Looks more or less like an overclocked/RAM upgraded N64 game which is very appropriate for DC. I imagine the performance/draw distance/car and ped count was quite a bit poorer.

[Anonymous No.9830992]

Dreamcast was a 5½ generation console.

[Anonymous No.9831006]

Even worse, you will never ever get games like this feeling again. Sega has left the console market and now the arcade market, and their focus is on angry birds. The arcade game feel you love has been on life support for years but the hand is on the plug getting ready to pull it out as we speak.

[Anonymous No.9831193]

>>9830406
MAME can run model 1 mostly fine, but it still has some bugs which usually show as collision problems in virtua fighter 1. If you see a youtube video of Virtua Fighter 1 where certain clothes parts or things like ponytail hairs just float in the air, that's from early versions of MAME, they improved a bit since then but it's still not perfect. Model 2 is a complete crapshot and ranges from "games work but look like ass and randomly crash/hang the music" to "black screen on boot". Model 3 is like Model 3 but worse.

The standalone model 2 emulator runs stuff fine. Supermodel supposedly also does model 3 fine.
Wonder why they haven't tried porting both into MAME.

[Anonymous No.9831216]

>>9831193
>Wonder why they haven't tried porting both into MAME
Supermodel uses quite a few hacks, and MAME has accuracy autism. Don't mix.

[Anonymous No.9831225]

>>9831216
Finalburn gang
Finalburn gang

[Anonymous No.9831303]

>>9829456
>The rendering was fine, the problem was load times. I got a Dreamcast specifically for Skies of Arcadia, and I dropped that game after a day. The loading was HORRENDOUS.
Get a GDEMU bro.

[Anonymous No.9831423]

>>9827647
>The Windows CE base means that developers could use Windows based elements such as DirectX.

the WindowsCE operating system in the Dreamcast was stripped down to its most basic functions. Like directx, direct audio, visual studio and such. The Dreamcast has a DirectX 6 level GPU and WinCE for DC uses DX6. The Xbox GeForce 3 tier GPU on the other hand uses Direct X8.1, and DX8.1 basically rolled out as a PC update on the same day as the release of the Xbox. Though the GameCube's ATi GPU can compete with the Xbox GPU. The Wii uses the same GPU, but upclocked by 1.5x and the CPU is also clocked higher at 729MHz as opposed to 485 of the GameCube. Also Wii has more RAM. The Wii is much closer to the OG Xbox in performance.

[Anonymous No.9831435]

Still waiting for that one guy on /vr/ who actually understands the strengths of the Dreamcast's hardware to post in this thread. Too much spitballing by people who have literally zero understanding of the architecture yet puzzlingly have an opinion on it.

[Anonymous No.9831717]

>>9831435
most tech knowers are in beyond3d sadly and they had already concluded that it would have been somewhat competitive until 2004

[Anonymous No.9831845]

>>9830406
>>9831193
It's been a while since I really followed this stuff closely, but didn't MAME used to have a moratorium on supporting 3D arcade boards because they're "too recent" and don't want to support piracy?

[Anonymous No.9831869]

>>9828439
>Half-Life
How does it run on real hardware? I'm assuming I can burn it to a CD and play it on my Dreamcast. I want to play through Half-Life again soon and it'd be a pretty interesting way to go about it

[Anonymous No.9831870]

>>9831845
A lot of it comes down to MAME's insistence on only doing software rendering, which is notoriously slow af at 3D and not scalable for muh HD grafix that folks typically jump to emulation for.

[Anonymous No.9831876]

>>9831870
Yeah, I figured that was the real reason, but I thought they used the "we don't want to support piracy of recent games" as a cope reason too.

[Anonymous No.9831882]

>>9831876
I don't think that ever was a thing, simply because every recent cab is a PC anyway, and it's much easier to pirate shits without even looking in MAME's general direction.

[Anonymous No.9831996]

>>9831869
>How does it run on real hardware? I'm assuming I can burn it to a CD and play it on my Dreamcast. I want to play through Half-Life again soon and it'd be a pretty interesting way to go about it

I have played the leaked build on a real Dreamcast. And I also use to play Half-Life 1 on a Pentium Celeron with 128MB RAM and a GeForce card. Comparing the two, side by side. The Dreamcast game appears to run the game at about 640x480 with a framerate that generally seems to hover below 30fps. Level geometry gets cut up in spots, so do textures. The game has a pretty long load times between areas. But in all fairness, so did playing Half-Life 1 on my old Windows 98 PC. This port does not use WindowsCE, it was ported by GearBox, who also did the PS2 version. Half-Life for Dreamcast also introduced Blue-Shift as well as the HD-Models. The DC port was suppose to have online multiplayer and co-op. I think it also supports the keyboard and mouse. Overall, the PS2 port is better. But the Dreamcast port is an interesting benchmark for the system. It was impressive for the time. But the game was cancelled before final release, and Blue-Shift and the HD Model pack were sold as stand-along expansion pack for HL1. The HD models could be used in HL 1 and Opposing Forces.

[Anonymous No.9832004]

>>9831882
Do you have experience with teknoparrot? There's a few fun looking games on there, although its less than opening your first mame set and being overwhelmed by the choices for sure. Sucks when I go into arcades now and see shit like a 40 foot LCD angry birds platform jumper with extra ticket gambling or whatever the fuck.

[Anonymous No.9832010]

>>9831996
>The Dreamcast game appears to run the game at about 640x480 with a framerate that generally seems to hover below 30fps

The leaked build has an uncapped framerate that can reach up to 60fps. But most of the time struggles to hit 30fps. Apparently there was a version even more finalized that was ready to go gold. But bad timing of the cancellation of the DC caused Sierra to just not release the game at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVOFOsrCwrc

[Anonymous No.9832035]

>>9831870
model 2 would look fine in software rendering, it doesn't do anything remotely taxing like transparencies. In fact a lot of games already run fine, they just have fucked up texturing.

model 3 would be something entirely different of course.

[Anonymous No.9832075]

>>9827319
you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.9832090]

>>9828129
>hobbyists/retros is a playerbase of like 20 ppl
recently on dreamcast-talk forums a guy asked everyone to go online with their dreamcasts at a certain date to see what peak they could reach.
27 people.

[Anonymous No.9832091]

>>9832090
yeah but if all 27 of those guys bought this new open source hobbyist dreamcast 2? sega might be able to make a comeback

[Anonymous No.9832289]

>>9831717
This seems to match up with the actual games. At some point the Dreamcast would have to be cut loose as far as multiplats go. And unlike something like the Wii, Sega would have a hell of a time trying to get good exclusives on it. Maybe they'd have made a Sonic Adventure 3? Though if it lasted until 2004 and Sega followed up with a new system to beat Xbox 360 to market it might have served its purpose.

[Anonymous No.9832389]

>>9832289
As much as some of their new shit feels uninspired, Nintendo kind of have a bullet proof strategy now. Don't give a fuck about hardware races, IPs that sell themselves, total control over their platform. I think they continue to be one of the only companies who demonstrate the blue ocean theory effectively. Must be nice to put your feet up and print cash.

[Anonymous No.9832434]

>>9827291
DC's big advantage was that it supported a ton of special effects. Stuff like AA and bump mapping were supported out of the box thanks to on-board hardware. This meant that most of the DC's memory and processing power could be used for pushing polys rather than bruteforcing effects in software. The PS2 for example, supports basically no hardware features; so if you wanted to do something like bump mapping, you'd have to do it in software, which would be a hit on performance. DC could do this stuff with little to no hit. It was weak on paper, clocking in at only 200mhz, but real world results were often better than early games on PS2/GC due to supported hardware effects and high quality image output. Would it have been able to compete with stuff like Resident Evil 4 or Riddick later in the gen? Probably not, but I have no doubt it could have run most multiplats of the era, even into 2005. There was more that could have been squeezed out of it, for sure.

[Anonymous No.9832478]

>>9830982
>normal/bump mapping
who cares, that shit was ugly at the time and it's not like ps2 used it.
>limited regarding shading
how exactly?
>low storage discs
GC: 1.4GB
DC: 1GB
N64: up to 64mb but mostly much lower

[Anonymous No.9832491]

thinking about questions like this make me believe generations are real.

[Anonymous No.9832495]

>>9832478
>who cares
Everyone cares
>how exactly?
Gamecube and Xbox has legit pixel shader. PS2's fixed function pipeline is fast enough to fake it till it looks good.
>low storage discs
Mein negro, Shenmue was shipped on Three Discs. Shenmue 2 was shipped on Four Discs. That's how ridiculous that shit was.

[Anonymous No.9832508]

>>9832495
you just laid out the solution to "low storage discs problem"

[Anonymous No.9832513]

>>9832508
If the solution is pissing your customers off with arm-wracking disc swapping sessions, they'll buy a console that doesn't pull this shit.

[Anonymous No.9832630]

>>9832513
>arm-wracking disc swapping sessions
What? Switching discs every 7 hours is not at all bad.

[Anonymous No.9832660]

it’s not fair bros, i want more sega subsidized content devoid arcade ports I can emulate, they don’t make anything anymore except pachislots and total war/Yakuza

[Anonymous No.9832693]

>>9828024
>Max Payne was planned for the DC
Fuck why couldn't the console have lasted another year or two in the states? At least we got some cool games out of Japan until 2007.

[Anonymous No.9832696]

>>9827959
>The source code for Spirit of Sound was released to the public months ago.

What is this Spirit of Sound? Google gives me random nonsense.

[Anonymous No.9832698]

>>9832389
Nintendo has the advantage that they have their own island now. PlayStation, Xbox, and Steam are all essentially the same platform under different brand names and you pick your poison. Nintendo is now what Apple Computer was in the 90s compared to all the various IBM compatibles.

[Anonymous No.9832709]

>>9832696
>Spirit of Sound

Spirit of Speed 1937:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGQNUa2Z7Ok

A game so bad that Acclaim pulled the LJN brand out of retirement to publish the game under it, so they wouldn't have to use the Acclaim name. But the source code was dropped to the public earlier this year. It is all WindowsCE.

[Anonymous No.9832713]

>>9832709
>A game so bad that Acclaim pulled the LJN brand out of retirement to publish the game under it, so they wouldn't have to use the Acclaim name

the Last LJN published game to date... unless someone buys the LJN branding and starts publishing games again.

[Anonymous No.9832724]

>>9832709
Oh, yeah Spirit of Speed I am familiar with.

I remember thinking the concept was a neat idea, then being disappointed when I read reviews of how terrible it was. Clearly an unfinished mess that was shoved out the door.

[Anonymous No.9832729]

>>9827723
Never go full retard.

[Anonymous No.9832741]

>>9832724
>Oh, yeah Spirit of Speed I am familiar with.

https://en.sega-dreamcast-info-games-preservation.com/liste-des-codes-source

[Anonymous No.9832778]

>>9832724
"golden age of racing" is a good execution of the similar concept. without licenses though, but it really shows that the most important thing in a racing game is driving physics.

[Anonymous No.9832895]

>>9832713
>unless someone buys the LJN branding and starts publishing games again.

I can't imagine there is much chance of that happening. Are the LJN Trademarks even still active or are they dead now? LJN didn't even develop anything, they were just a publisher, and vast majority of what they published were licensed titles that they no way in hell still own the licenses to. Plus I am sure what few things they might still have the IP rights too won't come included with the branding.

So all one would be buying is a branding of a company that has become infamous with shoddy poor quality games that were hoping to sell on a license and was last heard from over 20 years ago when they released one of their worst games ever.

[Anonymous No.9832995]

>>9832513
All the 6th gen consoles had multi-disc releases

[Anonymous No.9833063]

>>9827723
SEGA dying made no difference overall in terms of hardware, what hurt the gaming market the most was 7th gen's ridiculous dev costs coupled with graphic fag shit, online subscriptions and DLC, by 8th gen no console was unique; they were all branded PC's using FreeBSD or Windows, its even more apparent now with the PS5/XSX (lol), there is literally 0 reason to buy them, games dont get shit out anymore because paradoxically game development has gotten has a lot more demanding and expensive despite streamlined tools and consoles

in SW/gaymz terms DC's death also doesnt matter at all, the entire library is PSX holdouts and arcade ports. the few exclusive games it had is still stuck in the design philosophy from then, excluding shenmue which is a ps3 era tier cinematic game lol. if the DC had theoretically survived, nothing would guaantee that games made for it wouldn't follow the general design trends, outside of maybe the DC's shitty disc size limitations

[Anonymous No.9833334]

>>9832698
Apple Computer in the 90s was on the verge of dying though.

[Anonymous No.9833579]

>>9833334
I was thinking more the late 90s when those candy colored iMacs started proliferating. The ones with the Jeff Goldblum commercials. Maybe that was the early 2000s though.

[Anonymous No.9833590]

>>9832995
Not every game is conducive to disc swapping. RPGs were easy because you'd put the whole game on every disc and only switch out the FMVs. Do that with actual game content like textures and you're going to be forcing swaps constantly depending on where the player goes. It would be hell in a game like GTA.

[Anonymous No.9833891]

>>9833590
>Not every game is conducive to disc swapping. RPGs were easy because you'd put the whole game on every disc and only switch out the FMVs.

Just because FF7 did that does not mean other RPGs did as well. Many later multi-disk games and even multi-disk games before FF7 did actually have different content beyond just FMVs on the disks.

[Anonymous No.9833897]

>>9833891
Yeah, and that sucked. Legend of Dragoon made you swap discs around depending on which town you visited and it made playing it more of a chore than any of the Final Fantasies.

[Anonymous No.9834298]

>>9827316
>File: maxresdefault.jpg (127 KB, 1280x720)
what causes people to upload in this format?
I genuinely want to know.

[Anonymous No.9834304]

>>9827319
holy shit I wish I was this retarded. I would sleep like a baby at night in blissful ignorance of my own lack of intellect

[Anonymous No.9834336]

>>9834298
My guess is screen capture from an iphone or some such. Or screen cap from some app otherwise.
No Android phone I've ever used does it.

[Anonymous No.9834382]

>>9834298
>>9834336
Downloading from Google image search sometimes does that, regardless of device. Iphone would have iOS file name or iCloud file name.

[Anonymous No.9834392]

Guys, serious question time.

How much more powerful is the Dreamcast when compared to the Saturn?

I love Sega so please don’t think I’m being a dickhead but I’m genuinely curious when I really think about it.

I know that the Dreamcast is an upgrade in terms of ease of programming, more memory + processor power, awesome development kits, etc., but how much more powerful us it?

[Anonymous No.9834459]

>>9833590
Textures and meshes don't use much disc capacity. Prerecorded audio and video cutscenes do, and that's stuff which tends to be easily partitioned across hours of gameplay.

[Anonymous No.9834831]

>>9834392
MY DICK!

[Anonymous No.9834841]

>>9834392
A serious question on 4chan? AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.9834897]

>>9834298
>what causes people to upload in this format?
It's one of the default thumbnail / snapshot formats that youtube automatically creates, and it is the one most commonly grabbed by image search engines.

[Anonymous No.9835085]

>>9834392
Was the Saturn even that powerful? You hear it said a lot but I’m not sure what definitive proof we have that it was this cruise missile that just couldn’t be harnessed properly.

[Anonymous No.9835101]

>>9827291
dreamcast lover here i think the dreamcast was a scam to sell the old hardware already developed for arcades and make it look like next gen but it was bs, silent hill 2, resident evil 4, mgs2, gta3, would have never work on dreamcast, i still love it tho

[Anonymous No.9835102]

>>9828024
GTA2 on the DC was amazing, really well-made version.
>GTA3 on the DC
VGH, what could've been... The early version was heavily inspired by GTA2 as well.

[Anonymous No.9835117]

>>9827291
The DC never really got fully utilized but games like Shenmue and Head Hunter showed that it could handle games pretty close to open world/larger more expansive.

[Anonymous No.9835126]

Based purely on Head Hunter I think it could have handled GTA 3.

[Anonymous No.9835165]

>>9827985
The Dreamcast's only problem is the lack of RAM, otherwise it would have no problem running GTA 3. Sure, you'll need to downgrade the graphics slightly and spread the game over multiple discs, but that was already a thing

[Anonymous No.9835168]

Based purely on me huffing paint and having fetal alcohol syndrome the Dreamcast not only could have survived but would have beaten the competition

[Anonymous No.9835267]

>>9835165
The disc drive was also 3x slower which really hurts for an open world game which needs to stream a lot.
The Dreamcast also has much weaker SIMD capability which is important in GTA III for vehicle physics. Unlike the PS2, CPU SIMD is used for polygon math too, meaning on the Dreamcast one comes at the expense of the other.
If GTA III were on Dreamcast it would have been heavily downgraded, and not just in the graphics department.

[Anonymous No.9835308]

>>9833590
lol. no. Game devs aren't as retarded as you.

[Anonymous No.9835520]

>>9835126
I'd like to see some homebrew use the simulant engine to do something cool. I don't think gta3 in it's current format would work. Draw distance would need to be wrangled, but I'd like to see someone do something clever.
Wonder how easy it is to drop a model and a camera into that engine just to play with.

[Anonymous No.9835562]

>>9835520
simulant engine runs open gl 1.4 and is meant for ease of use, no? I'm not sure if max performance out of the console is what they have in mind but im eager to have my mind blown

[Anonymous No.9835582]

>>9835562
Yeah, sorry, I just woke up and mixed two thoughts together.

I want to see someone do something cool with the simulant engine to make an impressive scene using clever modelling
And also
I don't think gta3 would work on the dreamcast in it's current form.

[Anonymous No.9835596]

>>9827319
The absolute state of /vr/

[Anonymous No.9835601]

>>9827632
Can someone translate buzzwords?

[Anonymous No.9835606]

>>9835596
The absolute state of you niggas

[Anonymous No.9836446]

>>9835606
You can use the real word, nigger.

[Anonymous No.9836823]

>>9835102
like headhunter

[Anonymous No.9837915]

>>9836446
The nigger state of you niggas

[Anonymous No.9839484]

Cool, Been waiting for a Dreamcast thread to mention this. I've been thinking the Dreamcast architecture, especially the sound hardware, reminds me of the architecture of a Roland/Yamaha high-end groovebox or low-end workstation. It was MIDI capable and the cable in my picture was available so I feel like on paper it could have carved a niche as a console music production powerhouse if given the time.