/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9807756]

Why did media in the 70s, 80s, and 90s have surrealist, otherworldly, dream-like creative aesthetics compared to now, where everything just tries to ape the lazy iPhone minimalist look?

[Anonymous No.9807758]

Limitations.
SOVL is not *just* about creativity. SOVL is creativity + limitations. That's why advanced tech is so SOVLless.

[Anonymous No.9807763]

[Anonymous No.9807769]

>>9807763
Lmao I came here to post this exact image

[Anonymous No.9807797]

OP's picrel just screams "pretentious" to me. It tries too hard to be the quintessence of pre-21st century aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.9807803]

>>9807763
this is a good image and amazing post, true creatives have known this for a long time.

[Anonymous No.9807814]

Because those renders were all made with the same software and were limited to a similar style. It's like asking why music made with a korg M1 has a similar distinct feel

[Anonymous No.9807818]

Computing went from being a hobby for intelligent and creative people, to just another slop industry.

[Anonymous No.9807819]

https://www.theverge.com/2015/9/9/9274915/graphics-card-boxes-weird-art

[Anonymous No.9807926]

>>9807756
Some time ago I made my first game, where I want to focus on creating surreal and dream-like settings. It's my first game, it's not that great, it has some frustrating gameplay, but you might want to give it a try if you like dreamcore. It would make me happy to know if there are people who are interested in my game despite not being a big deal. I will leave the link here. https://teamkerubin.itch.io/gali-and-the-snails-invaders

[Anonymous No.9808221]

I think Mario in general has a dreamlike quality, I get a similar feeling from early Disney.

[Anonymous No.9808234]

>>9807758
That's a myth. Devs from those days have said repeatedly that hardware/graphics tech limitations never dictated design.

[Anonymous No.9808238]

>>9807756
Because humanity is declining

[Anonymous No.9808246]

>>9807763
Who is this guy? Though it was hitchcock for a moment

[Anonymous No.9808265]

>>9808246
Jean Renoir, French director

[Anonymous No.9808268]

>>9807756
>It’s that Mario Bros in a otherworldly background? IM GOING INSAAAAAAANEEEE

[Anonymous No.9808293]

>>9807763
This isn't strictly true. Artists throughout history used to try to recreate reality because they had no other way of doing it. After photography was invented art started to go completely batshit crazy because there was no need for strict adherence to realistic reproduction anymore.

[Anonymous No.9808298]

>>9807763

[Anonymous No.9808347]

>>9807758
fpbp right outta the park.

[Anonymous No.9808359]

>>9807756
It was made by tasteless nerds with no actual education in art. They all wanted to be salvador dali but couldn't paint so they got their outlet in computer graphics.

[Anonymous No.9808398]

>>9808347
It's not true though.

[Anonymous No.9808441]

>>9808398
define "true"

[Anonymous No.9808595]

>>9808234
>Devs from those days have said repeatedly that hardware/graphics tech limitations never dictated design
That doesn't even make sense. There was plenty of stuff that was impossible to implement in PS1 gen.

[Anonymous No.9808610]

>>9807814
That's definitely a good part of it, though a lot of that can be applied to modern day game production. We should also remember that that the market back then was far different to how it is now, both the people buying games and the people making them are not the same as the ones from past decades.

[Anonymous No.9808618]

>>9808234
If design was never limited by tech, then why did any they ever change or get better? Were they all just extremely lucky the tech was at the exact level to do what they wanted at the time? Were they /vr/ time travelers?
Or maybe that excuse is just giga cope so people won't say that their good past design work wasn't all that it could have been

[Anonymous No.9808652]

>>9808234
sakurai programmed the first kirby on a trackball without a keyboard. Think about that.

[Anonymous No.9808673]

>>9808234
schizo post

[Anonymous No.9808753]

>>9807763
and this is why AI """"art"""" is going to be another tech fad.

[Anonymous No.9808758]

>>9807763
Ahhhhhhhhh the fwench

[Anonymous No.9808761]

>>9808673
psycho response

[Anonymous No.9808827]

it has nothing to do with technology or limitations. it has everything to do with the fact that the people creating games today are physically, mentally, sexually, spiritually confused mutts that grew up in a broken world and have been blasted by GMOs, hormones, microplastics, neurotoxins and weird electrical wavelengths since birth. they are furthered removed from God, and therefore lack the essence of soul necessary for creating great works.

[Anonymous No.9808830]

>>9808265
French Cancan is kino. The artificiality is amazing. And I am not at all into gay shit like this.
https://youtu.be/XwljDKKnUms

[Anonymous No.9808846]

>>9807763
if you just draw a photo-esque, picture perfect tree in front of a forest than thats all it is. nothing more or less. but if you use dramatic lighting, angles, 'primitive' techniques and colors, you can easily inspire an emotion from it. hence, bright colors, pleasing composition, and overall cheerfulness will make you feel elated. on the other hand, a perfect representation is just as complicated as life: youll look at something and see what you want to see. anyone might be cheered looking at a forest irl, another person might feel scared or intimidated by its nature. thats why in art you distill only the necessary emotions and techniques to 'simplify' the message in order make it clear to everyone what you WANT them to see. in short, art is simple, and simple things are easier to communicate with than complicated things.

[Anonymous No.9808874]

>>9807926
Pretty cool anon, not bad for your first game.

[Anonymous No.9808889]

>>9807756
why did all art in (30 year period) all have (this totally subjective quality that I personally feel when looking at a few images) and now it is all iphone?

Even toddlers that are struggling to string together sentences can't ask questions this stupid.

[Anonymous No.9808890]

>>9807756
The ghost of SGI. SGIpunk, even.

[Anonymous No.9809249]

>>9808618
>If design was never limited by tech, then why did any they ever change or get better? Were they all just extremely lucky the tech was at the exact level to do what they wanted at the time? Were they /vr/ time travelers?
>Or maybe that excuse is just giga cope so people won't say that their good past design work wasn't all that it could have been

Holy cow are you that much of a subversive piece of shit?

[Anonymous No.9809264]

>>9807756
Because the great irony is that in a society that supposedly values diversity and freedom it has become utterly homogenous and limited in terms of ideas and creativity. The 90s/00s was about the last bit of the creative and energetic freedom which came about in the post-war period. Its been extinguished so everything has become dull corporate crap or pretentious indie drivel

Limitations of technology then had some part to play also but its secondary to the above

[Anonymous No.9809305]

>>9808758
>MAAAAH

[Anonymous No.9809310]

>>9809264
>dull corporate crap or pretentious indie drivel
I love how the indie "industry" is mirroring the AAA industry, it's essentially the same shit but at the other end of the spectrum, it became standardized, predictable, dull and boring, recycling and copying the same ideas and settings. It even has awards events for circlejerking the same way AAA does. It's fueled by the same corruption and nepotism, for example there was no way for Celeste to become so popular and so big without the developer being part of a clique and in cahoots with the big boys of in the industry. It's all fake & gay, I find it amusing how posters on /v/ still claim that indies are saving video games when they're part of the same cancer.

[Anonymous No.9809313]

SOUL and creativity died in 2000. Humanity died in 2007.

[Anonymous No.9809325]

>>9808359
Pretty much this. What they call "soulful" is just terrible programmer art. It's pure contrarianism.

[Anonymous No.9809327]

[Anonymous No.9809328]

>>9808758
.... She doesn't do anything?

[Anonymous No.9809329]

>>9808753
It's going to find its purpose as a HELPFUL GUIDE. And will be one of many tools in an artists repertoire.

These extremely pro-AI "HAHA FUCK ARTFAGS STAY MAD, I'M CREATING A CONFLICTED DICHOTOMY OUT OF FUCKING NOTHING" dullards are going to be sorely disappointed.

[Anonymous No.9809354]

>>9808618
>Were they all just extremely lucky the tech was at the exact level to do what they wanted at the time?

this strongly suggests a lack of understanding of being handed a task where you have limitations to conform to, but creative freedom within that framework.

The tech isn't at the exact level, the tech is the prerequisite of understanding what you can accomplish. The first damn metroid is a great example,

>memory is limited in the address space, despite the game being on disk you can only use so much at a time
>still want smooth animation while moving character, despite limited tiles available
>use silhouetting techniques and high framerates to give impression of running with only 3 frames

its a combination of factors, including insight and talent for reaching to whats available.

compare that to later games like Metal Storm's animation once bank switching tech had been out. Just one of those factors can make a big difference in the output of a completed game.

[Anonymous No.9809448]

>>9809313
Why 2007 specifically? What happened in 2007?

[Anonymous No.9809592]

>>9809448
Financial crisis happened in 2008, figure it out.

[Anonymous No.9809643]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ip9xSK5YOQ

supposedly made in 2022 and with the og hardware

[Anonymous No.9809753]

>>9809448
Big Bang Theory

[Anonymous No.9809780]

>>9809448
Retards from /v/ like to parrot the 2007 meme even though things only really went to shit in 2009 when things like iphones, big bang theory and facebook actually got popular.

[Anonymous No.9809781]

>>9807756
Because it was cheaper and easier than trying to make something look realistic. Why did you think? Or did you even?

[Anonymous No.9809784]

>>9808753
>says extremely nervous anon for the 17th time this week...

[Anonymous No.9809859]

>>9809643
can you stop shilling your garbage music on this board, you already made a thread some time ago no one fucking cares go to /mu/

[Anonymous No.9809905]

>>9808753
sure buddy lmao

[Anonymous No.9809994]

>>9807758
Limitations are only necessary for someone with limited creativity.

[Anonymous No.9810004]

>>9807763
That's kind of bullshit lol.

I love abstract and surrealist art. But at the same time, the academic movement, the romantic movement, realism, etc. They all had a focus on realistic portrayals, but they're genuinely beautiful.

Always beware of anyone making sweeping generalisations like this, because 99 times out of 100 they're talking complete shit.

[Anonymous No.9810015]

>>9809329
I'm sure people said the same thing about quantising, comping, and auto-tune in DAWs.

AI is an obviously useful tool, but let's be real. It's going to be used as a crutch.

[Anonymous No.9810025]

>>9807763
Everyone is missing the point of this image.
He's talking about photorealism, not making something that looks accurate to real life.
You can make art that looks grounded and realistic but with your own idealism applied to it with good colors and interesting composition. Taking 4k pictures of tree bark to use as textures and making the sky greyish instead of a nice blue tone due to urbanite pollution is photorealism, and it sucks ass.

[Anonymous No.9810058]

>>9808618
Super>Zero>Fusion>2>1

[Anonymous No.9810083]

>>9808830
a respectable production

[Anonymous No.9810097]

>>9807756
Be specific, they dumped Mario into a sea in front of a glacier to show off what that silicon graphics hardware could do. An iphone interface would be interface design which has fuckall to do with this.

[Anonymous No.9810128]

>>9807756
Play indie games and stop whining

[Anonymous No.9810317]

>>9809780
CoD4, Halo 3, The Orange Box, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, Wii Sports, BioShock, Uncharted, and the beginning of the "indiepocalypse" were all 2007, which irreversibly changed the landscape of video games and their audience.

[Anonymous No.9811083]

>>9809784
Where's the collapse anon?

[Anonymous No.9811094]

>>9811083
>Where's the empire's collapse, Constantine?

[Anonymous No.9811117]

It's called "abstract" and the technology was too limited for actual detail

[Anonymous No.9811202]

>>9807763
Presupposes that society necessarily needs change and creativity.

[Anonymous No.9811225]

>>9808830
>French Cancan
>gay shit
You know cabarets were just 19th century strip clubs, right? There was just a distinction of class with some of the higher quality ones because the girls received higher quality dance education, but the vast majority of the clientele were just horny guys who wanted a glimpse of some bloomers

[Anonymous No.9811235]

>>9809313
The world died in 2000, y2k is real

[Anonymous No.9811236]

>NEW THING BAD

[Anonymous No.9811256]

AI will be making the games for us, we'll all have our own perfect game.

[Anonymous No.9811521]

>>9810058
>>9808618
I never really appreciated fusion's sprite changing stances at the varia suit. Pre-varia, samus looks hunched over, carrying the arm cannon in a weaker way, perhaps symbolizing her unfamiliarity with all of the changes, but then after the varia suit, she swaps back to the over hand stance used in all other games. She's got her game back, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.9811543]

>>9811521
While that would be cool, I believe that sprite is actually the SA-X. Varia in Fusion is just the Fusion suit colored green and a dark red/purple

[Anonymous No.9811561]

>>9811236
>MEME GOOD

[Anonymous No.9811568]

>>9809781
>mario and various other cartoonish games were supposed to look realistic
did you even think? or do you?

[Anonymous No.9811765]

>>9811543
well fuck, I've played myself. Still I think the stances contrasting each other is a really good touch.

[Anonymous No.9811781]

>>9807756
counterculture.

[Anonymous No.9811789]

>>9809313

This, once the flat globalhomo/corporate memphis look fades in popularity, it will retroactively be declared "sovl". It's happening to 2000s graphic design right now.

[Anonymous No.9811794]

>>9811236

This, once the flat globalhomo/corporate memphis look fades in popularity, it will retroactively be declared "sovl". It's happening to 2000s graphic design right now.

[Anonymous No.9811954]

>>9811202
for the sake of evolution yes

[Anonymous No.9812212]

>>9810317
>all good games
Such a shame, things comes with a cost.

[Anonymous No.9812213]

>>9811094
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.9812382]

>>9808298
The 2nd link is incorrect in the assumption why the colors disappear. Your eyes have to move around to keep the visual information in your periphery "current." It's not important whether it's moving or not, your brain maps the central detail part of your retina onto the low detail outside part so you don't have this weird foveated rendering effect. But if your eyes don't move for a while the trick stops working and you effectively go tunnel visioned. This is why your eyes wobble around and it's difficult to stay laser focussed on a point for any length of time. Your brain is trying to refresh it's visual map. It's got nothing to do with "saving bandwidth", it's that we have two visual setups, one for detail and one that's sensitive to movement. If predators in your vision disappeared because they weren't creating enough movement to interest your brain we'd have died out a long time ago.

[Anonymous No.9812394]

>>9808234
Of course it did. But thing is what dictated design more than technical limitations was what everyone else was doing. Sad truth is that it doesn't matter what decade devs were in, 95% of them are just riffing on what everyone else was doing. Only a tiny minority ever invented game genres or play styles, most just made "Mario if he Squirrel", or "Doom again but in the jungle". That type of dev may feel like they were never being dictated to by the hardware, but they also weren't doing anything that couldn't be done.

[Anonymous No.9812421]

>>9807758
>SOVL is creativity + limitations
"SOVL" is "whatever was around when I was a naive kid". It left an impression on you that you built into your identity. It may surprise you that kids today will feel the same way about modern media in 20-30 years.

[Anonymous No.9812431]

>>9812421
>t. soulless
What is your natural hair color? Do you remember any strange rituals involving your parents talking to strange red horned guy?

[Anonymous No.9812585]

>>9812421
Kids today will feel the same way about the soulful modern media.

[Anonymous No.9814587]

>>9807756
hey what a poet give OP a prize please, nice take W

[Anonymous No.9814689]

I wish devs kept, or if they still have them used their old render models. I seldom like or want remakes but jesus I'd love to see PSX era Final Fantasy games remade with their pre-rendered backgrounds rendered in real time, same with the Donkey Kong Country Trilogy.

[Anonymous No.9814724]

>>9808753
i dont care if art dies as a medium as long as it makes trannies mad
no more exclusive club shit for the people born with talent leaving us people who actually deserve it in the dust
we are now on the same level as them without lifting a mere finger

[Anonymous No.9814750]

>>9814724
You are in no one's level, dumbo. AI models are trained on data which is then fractionally reused to generate your shitty fanfic dreams. When an artist draws himself, that's him doing the work. When you use an AI, you're using a computer to blend tons of artwork into some shit you thought clever. Protip: it's not, but it's workable enough to fool a good portion of the audience, and that's all you care about.

[Anonymous No.9814793]

>>9809249
Spotted the tourist...go back.

[Anonymous No.9814832]

>>9808234
Anyone who has ever created anything with limited resources understands that the design must comfort to the limitations.
Are you really daft enough to argue that sprite limits do not limit things like level design? That memory limitations didn't drive asset design? That sound card limitations didn't drive music design?

[Anonymous No.9814891]

>>9808234
sauce?

[Anonymous No.9814893]

>>9807756
>where everything just tries to ape the lazy iPhone minimalist look?
Games used to be marketed towards a niche group. It was uncommon for any given person to own any given game system. In the late 90s it started to become common for a household to have a PC. By the early 10s practically everyone had their own personal smart phone.
Many publishers, companies, and developers fell folly to the idea that pandering to the larger audience was best for them. It's the same reason why objectively worse UI/UX has become popular.
The abundance of resources also means that less-skilled and shit-skilled employees don't get filtered out early enough and drag down the products they're working on.
There's also the misconception that using more resources equals better. Very often you see aspects of a game suffer because too much time was spent on assets. The amount of effort it takes to prevent assets from feeling uncanny scales as the assets become higher in quality.

There's plenty of things that shrine through nowadays, equal in wonder to the days of old. You just have to trudge through more shit to find them. The electronic world is over-saturated.

[Anonymous No.9814904]

>>9808830
If you have nothing to say about video games it's better not to post at all.

[Anonymous No.9814909]

>>9807763
People don’t seem to understand what he means by decadence. In the past, more money was channeled into creatives as creativity was the only way to achieve the dreams of noncreatives. See the wealthy patronizing portrait painters for example. As it becomes easier for those without any creative spark or skills to attain the visions in their mind, so too does the income stream to creatives dwindle. Why should I pay for a portrait painter when I could pay a photographer? Why should I pay a photographer when I could take my own picture? The ease by which the masses may reproduce their limited visions without technique or skill or creativity diminishes the monetary value of those skills on an open marketplace. However, part of being creative was overcoming challenge and limitation, and so too is the mechanization of creation simply another hurdle for the creator to overcome. The artist need not be decadent, simply because the masses are, and have always been.

[Anonymous No.9814930]

>>9809310
I wont argue that indies are saving games or are all just hacks like AAA because that would be stupid, considering the label indie applies to literally everything below a certain budget. To me indie isn’t the right word to describe small developers, since you cannot compare Tarn and Zach developing DF to Celeste. The DFbros are real indie to me, because they are just a couple of autists making a fun game out of their love for making games, have kept at it in spite of the hyper niche nature of DF, and will probably keep going until they die even after the recent hype dies. I think there will always be indie chads like this. A game is good because it is good, not because it is popular (excluding multiplayer games). Another dev that comes to mind is Illwinter. Just two swedes making fun but fugly games. I suppose the same applies to AAA. There will always be some inspired people who come out with great and inspired games via overcoming the traditional corporate shitscale. Sure the average money making game may be bad now, but it comes and goes in cycles. Video games are fun, and there will always be people making fun games, and there are plenty of fun old games to play too, with dedicated people porting them. No need to be doomer. If you truly have played every single good game currently in existence to exhaustion though, I suggest you go out and play some real life.

[Anonymous No.9814938]

>>9810317
>Lists good games
I’m not sure what you mean desu. It’s been 16 years anon, what do you mean by the indiepacolypse? What do these good games have to do with it?

[Anonymous No.9814940]

>>9808234
Name 3.

[Anonymous No.9814949]

The level of intelligence in this thread is staggeringly low that it's like I'm on /v/.

[Anonymous No.9815031]

>>9810317
Some of those are from before 2007.

[Anonymous No.9815036]

>>9811094
Constantine, that Arian retard. Tried to save his empire AND his sun worship with his crap, got owned by fellow Arian Germans instead.

[Anonymous No.9815056]

>>9814750
Nice cope. Better start working in that resume.

[Anonymous No.9815082]

>>9807756
Its the retro aesthetic of it. Y2K/Cassette Futurism. Got a thing for Furtiger Aero myself, but that super early 2000s/late 1990s,... God, what a time.

[Anonymous No.9815125]

>>9808652
that is exhausting to even consider, I now respect him a lot more

[Anonymous No.9815136]

>>9807763

Excellent.

[Anonymous No.9815634]

>>9814724
If you don't lift a finger, you already got what you deserve when you didn't get anything.

[Anonymous No.9816093]

>>9815056
I own multiple properties and live off the rent of wagies like you who love to speak of things like resumes. I use my free time in very productive endeavors like laughing at you.

[Anonymous No.9816118]

>>9808652
I find this story extremely hard to believe since keyboards were always far more ubiquitous than trackballs. Yes, I have read the story, and seen the pictures of the twin famicom with the trackball attached to it, and yet, I still find it extremely hard to believe, especially considering the famicom had a keyboard already available. If you were constrained to the famicom hardware, why not include support for the keyboard?
Full disclosure: I am usually very skeptical when it comes to Sakurai. I can't put my finger on it. I can't help but feel that he's not a truthful individual.

[Anonymous No.9816456]

>>9807756
Mostly due to the limitations of hardware and common pop culture from the time period.
>>9807763
Always a good quote, the more lifelike an object becomes the less stylized it can be which removes the personality that comes from surrealism. Arguments could be made both ways but perfect realism is often lacking in stylistic flair.
>>9808234
Bullshit, as a NES dev technical and visual limitations always have a factor on my final result. Getting your ideas to fit onto the hardware is never 1 to 1 and my art style, color choice, core level design philosophy, enemy placement and more were built up from what the NES could handle not the other way around.

>>9808359
>no education in art
A lot of it comes down to what the medium your working with can handle. I could try to perfectly encapsulate the Mona Lisa on a Gameboy, but it's display resolution and color limitations would stylize the image into something creatively distinctive. Compare the same image on an Ipad, it's a 1x1 there is nothing that make the image different than a windows PC, or an Xbox, or a smart fridge.

>>9808610
>hardware isn't everything
Agreed, the culture around video games and the influences creators built upon are different then the ones that came before them. Pop culture had a massive impact on the idea's before they were filtered through hardware. Together those factors created a soulful environment.
>>9811236
>NEW THING BAD
Not exactly, there are modern stylized games that understand the gap and go back to creative mediums. There is still hope for the modern game industry to take on new mediums and for each company to build out a distinct stylistic core. Games like Hylics 2 get me hyped for what the next generation of developers might do with some basic limits. One recommendation I'd give new devs is to cut down your scope and build upon an interesting medium.

[Anonymous No.9816465]

>>9808595
>>9808618
>>9808673
>>9814832
>>9814891
>>9814940
>>9816456
I don't have to explain shit. You people know nothing about game development. Dorks.

[Anonymous No.9816474]

>>9816118
I must be missing something because the whole setup sounds retarded. What was he selecting each character with a trackball using some kind of on screen keyboard?
Better yet, if so, why? If you walkes around Japan checking every vending machine for spare change you could save up enough for a keyboard, plug it in and get the job done faster than doing what I described.
I don't know if I'm missing something huge here but all I can take from the story is "look how absolutely braindead Sakurai was" - and I don't wanna think that cause Kirby is cool.

[Anonymous No.9816546]

It's really not a hard concept to grasp. I don't know if OP and some of you are braindead or just underaged, but it's all about marketing trends and big business in general. What's hip then isn't as hip now unless the marketers deem it so through their widespread push. Doesn't necessarily mean we the people do or have to like it, but it's what's "in" now for the businesses.
There's a psychological science behind all of it. You ought to watch vids. on how food ads are made.
Limitations can breed creativity, but so can the vast wealth and ease of advancing tech. You just have to learn how to use it and the amount of effort it takes refelcts that. You'd be stupid to believe businesses/marketing back then WEREN'T thinking of how to get shit pushed out faster.

[Anonymous No.9816553]

>>9816546
And no, my post isn't advocating for pro AI art. Put some damn effort into your work, ya' lazy bums.

[Anonymous No.9816714]

>>9816465
>caught bullshitting
>i-i-i don't have to explain
There's nothing to explain. Everyone already knows you're a bullshitting baby, and there's nothing more to it.

[Anonymous No.9816840]

>>9812213
lmao sure kiddo

[Anonymous No.9816903]

>>9816465
>You people know nothing about game development
Kek, show us your shit or gtfo anon.

[Anonymous No.9816942]

>>9816546
>Games are more about phycological advertising than an art form
Mobile games? Sure. Retro video games? Not really, why would a market of 8-10 year olds like a middle aged Italian Plummer over some roided Arnold knock off? There was a lot more creative experimentation on went into a video game was back then there is now. That's what makes retro video games so full of creativity, they had the cooperate wiggle room to introduce something completely out of the realm of modern markets and get away with it. It's not that companies weren't using marketing ploys, just that the dev teams had more room to be creative and exotic while the sales team pitched the product. Either sides of the coin had next to no coordination outside of a few character ref sheets and a general plot synopsis.