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/vr/ - Retro Games

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9771536 No.9771536 [Reply] [Original]

Does this even count as running on original hardware anymore?

I like RGB/HDMI mods mind you. I prefer them actually, CRTs are not being made anymore and are not going to last forever, the last one rolled off the assembly line about 20 years ago, and they weren't even good ones by that point but the cheapest of the cheap.

Nothing against those who still prefer a CRT, I just feel it's better to try to get my retro systems to play nice with newer displays than chase after these things, especially thanks to idiots scalping every shitty old tv they can pull out of their mom's attic for prices as if it's some state of the art Trinitron PVM.

Most of the RGB or HDMI mods more or less either take the analog signals that the system naturally uses to create the video and output it as RGB or converted to HDMI before it goes through circuitry to convert it to composite/RF. It's still the console rendering the image, just that the mod takes those signals after it has rendered the image and outputs them over newer and higher fidelity connections before the console outputs them over the lower quality ones.

But the NES is too simple and old to do that, the mods have to piggyback off the PPU or both the PPU and CPU and reconstruct/re-render the image themselves in order to output it over anything higher than composite. It's not the console really rendering the RGB or HDMI image anymore, but the mod acting as basically it's PPU. Are you even really playing on actual NES hardware at that point?

>> No.9771541

Why do you care? Are you asking just because you can’t do anything without the /vr/ seal of approval? Oh 10 anons told me it counts as real hardware (tm) phew I can use this setup almost had to trash it.

>> No.9771548

Honestly, just looking for discussion and opinions as it's something I always thought about. I would install the mod regardless if it does or does not "count".

>> No.9771554

>>9771548
Do you man, use what makes you happy and is easy for your scenario. From my perspective it’s real hardware from the behavior side of things (no strange emulation behavior) but probably not gonna look the same as a CRT. I also don’t have any CRTs because I haven’t bothered to hunt for one and don’t give a fuck, but some on here will (rightly so) say the game was ultimately designed for a CRT and is the trooest experience. At the end of the day we’re probably 30-40 year old men arguing on a Chinese basketweaving forum about childrens games.

>> No.9772462

There are only three ways that I personally know of for a consumer to get rgb output on these. You have the hi-def nes mod (HDMI,) the arcade machine PPU, and Tim's nesrgb mod (analog rgb.)
The HDMI mod does pretty much what you describe and replaces functions of the hardware. You can even output the audio from it independently of the cpu's clock speed which is impossible. This is an fpga device that analogue used verbatim in their famiclones. It may never be available ever again as they were made exclusive to analogue's machines when the chips dried up. The available nesrgb mod does not necessarily replace anything and I think it could be described as an accessory. It sits under the PPU but the the PPU is still doing all the work. Nesrgb just takes the palette information and comes back with rgb. It does use what the PPU is putting out there and really everything else is totally the real deal in this way. The sync comes from the PPU, the audio comes from the CPU, etc. The nesrgb board puts it all together through its own dac and outputs. You might also consider things like replacing the Famicom's PSU board with what nesrgb includes and using new output jacks. But it's up to anyone to decide if that counts as really modifying anything to do with how the games run. Really though, none of it is literally original hardware of course.

>> No.9772718

>>9771536
>CRTs are not being made anymore and are not going to last forever, the last one rolled off the assembly line about 20 years ago, and
they still make new shitty ones in China and India, but those are like 1980s Korean TV tier so you really don't want them anyway.

>> No.9772801

>>9772718
They make CRT TVs, they don't make CRTs though, those are NOS.

>> No.9772937

>>9771536
Eh to me it's too far removed from the original for it to be something I would want but it doesn't merit any argument I don't think, the only thing I think is odd about your post is that you act like CRTs are already a museum piece and hard or impossible to get, but since I started actively keeping an eye out maybe 6 months ago I've managed to get both a small Panasonic Colorvision and a BenQ V773 for literally free and they both work. Rewiring the guts of a console feels like it would be more effort. I also feel like you've fallen for a defeatist meme about CRT scalpers (it happens but its not as bad as people act like it is on here, I worked in tech for years and every single person I interacted with that the topic ever came up around were shocked they had any potential value at all.
If you just don't like CRTs that's fine, I just feel like the argument presented for why not just get one seems like pre-emptively giving up (if it was something you actually wanted, if you just don't then again, totally fine, just hope you're not accepting defeat if its something you actually did want)

>> No.9772959

>>9771536
>Does this even count as running on original hardware anymore?
No. It's an invasive mod that replaces several parts of the system and can be detected in software:
https://forums.nesdev.org/viewtopic.php?t=24542

>> No.9773250

>>9772462
>This is an fpga device that analogue used verbatim in their famiclones. It may never be available ever again as they were made exclusive to analogue's machines when the chips dried up.

Wait, there are no more HDMI mods for the NES anymore?

>> No.9773265

>>9772801
It's amusing how many people conflate CRTs with monitors which contain CRTs.

>> No.9773567

>>9771536
The digital signal is bigger than the actual game in kb.

>> No.9773637

>>9773250
No the guy who made it works for analogue and they pulled their HDMI mod from the market. You can pop open one of their systems and take one out if you want one. But they don't make famiclones anymore anyway. He has designed a new version with a different chip but hasn't done anything with it yet. We'll see if he releases it or if analogue brings back their nt console.

>> No.9773797

>>9771536
My understanding is the nes ppu has a mode where it can overlay the image from one chip onto another, the master system has something similar as a hold over from the msx based video chip. So in that case the videochip in the console is actually sending the image to the output if using Tim Worthingtons mod.

The Krikkz rgb blaster from appearance is getting pretty close to just being an emulator in a cartridge. It could be just using the cpu for all I know. No thanks, I don't want mister glitches in my real hardware.

>>9772937
For the last 5 years its been incredibly rare for me to see people put out crt's. It looks like they probably won't make them again anytime soon so its good to keep backups.