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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 44 KB, 256x176, The_Legend_of_Zelda_-_Majora's_Mask_Box_Art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
976036 No.976036 [Reply] [Original]

I don't hate this game, but I think it gets a bit too much credit. A lot of interesting ideas, but I think much of the game is rather tedious and dull. Not a big fan of the game's pacing, but again it has a fascinating atmosphere and things that make me think.

What are your thoughts?

>> No.976052

I this it was an overall improvement on LoZ in pretty much every aspect. Audio and graphics most notably but also in the mechanics of the game itself. I think the time mechanic was awesome.

I never finished it though, I got stuck in the final temple.

>> No.976054

Doesn't feel like a Zelda game in my opinion.

>> No.976059

>>976052
just to preface this LoZ was the fist zelda game I played.

I know there were ones before that but I didn't have a system at that point.

>> No.976090

I kinda like the the way it makes you feel sort of powerless in the beginning, and focing you to explore the town as you figure out how to turn back human, so the reality of what's going on slowly dawns on you instead of being spelled out.

I also think it refines and improves on OoT in many ways, but also using that base to create something different in many surprising ways.

I think matt matosis is kinda spot on with his review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO1ckmGe-do

>> No.976092

>>976052
Are you comparing it to the NES game or did you mix up LoZ for OoT?

>> No.976153
File: 734 KB, 793x1008, keaton.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
976153

Fun game, overall I like it. It can be rather tedious though (the damn begining if you've played it before). There is a lot of repetition....good, bad, and the ugly. Some of the side quests feel great to put together.

Oh, and the whole Great Bay area is seems like it is pure busy work. I do like hearing the classics songs in the band members rooms though. I found the events around the Stone Temple to be the most enjoyable.

>> No.976149

I do like the game, but it's annoying how everyone gushes over how dark it is. Yes certainly elements of it are dark but people really love throwing that word around. I think it's more surrealist than anything.

>> No.976165

>>976092
oh chirist. Sorry I meant OoT

>> No.976164

i actually think the game gives you too much time. i honestly never felt the tension that people always say, because it gives you a lot of time to complete everything.

>> No.976174

It has the profound advantage of thematically allying itself with the loss of it's audience's innocence, in the same way that Kingdom Hearts did.

Perhaps the strongest Zelda game in terms of tone and atmosphere.

Too much credit is an opinion, but it's certainly one of the best LoZ's easily.

>> No.976179

Can you imagine if this wound up as the failed expansion pack to Ocarina of Time that it was originally going to be?

>> No.976187

sage

>> No.976191

>>976174
Being grimdark doesn't necessarily make a game's atmosphere "stronger."

It's unfortunate that western audiences always seem to think that a game being violent, sadistic or "mature" automatically makes it a better game.

>> No.976192

It's a very good game with a great atmosphere, but it's not without flaws. Losing all your stuff when you warp back is pretty tedious. Also, sometimes you're just sitting there, waiting for an event to occur (Worst offender is waiting for the clock tower to open up). Last of all, even with all the sidequests, it's still a pretty short game.

>> No.976196

So let me get this straight, after OoT there was going to be two expansions - Ura Zelda and Zelda Gaiden.

When the 64DD died a premature death Zelda Gaiden became Majoras Mask and Ura Zelda has bits cut out of it and released on the GC as a bonus disc to Wind Waker called Master Quest.

I wonder how much more was in Ura Zelda before it died?

>> No.976201

I never played it much because I don't like timed portions in games. Maybe one day.

>> No.976203

>>976191
>Being grimdark doesn't necessarily make a game's atmosphere "stronger."

Didn't say it did, and it's still not very grimdark.

>> No.976232
File: 227 KB, 680x500, 1227726267110.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
976232

I didn't like it then, and I don't really like it now. If they made all new npcs and didn't reuse so much of oot, it might stand. Fetch quests aren't content.

>> No.976269

>>976192
Can't you speed up the flow of time? And even without songs, there's a scarecrow in town you can use to skip forward.

>> No.976279

>>976269
Well you can speed it up in the sense that you can return it back to normal, since you're likely going to be playing with the time slowed for most of the game.

>> No.976307

>>976279

the only time i ever find it necessary to use the reverse song of time is when trying to run a dungeon and get all the fairies at the same time.

>> No.976308
File: 66 KB, 269x244, darealcomparison.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
976308

>>976232

>> No.976317

>>976036
Just one thing.
Lon Lon Milk + Goron Mask = endless fun

>> No.976319

>>976191
That's not it. It's just that it shows us a darker atmosphere in a world we used to think of as lighthearted.
Although Ganondorf was never the biggest fan of bright decorations.

>> No.976320

I think many of the tasks in the game are tedious. The Great Bay area was mentioned, and I agree. You need 4 bottles to go to the Pirates Fortress, if you don't want to go back and forth, so you either have to do that or some other sidequests to get them.

And then stuff like Bottom of the Well, learning the song from the Goron Elder...A lot of it seemed like tedious padding to me.

I wasn't that impressed with the dungeons either. Stone Tower had a cool concept, but the dungeon is actually very linear and straightforward. The upside-down aspect only plays into it if you want to get the fairies. Just beating the dungeon, it just feels like a series of rooms. I think Great Bay Temple is cooler.

>> No.976376

The atmosphere is probably the best of any 3D Zelda, the attention to detail (although practically necessary) is very satisfying, and frankly I like collectathons, with the masks feeling a bit more rewarding than a fourth of a heart piece or a gold skultula.
The strongest point I feel is each individual characters story - it feels alive and real. And the time mechanism adds to this so things don't get too bland - they're supposed to be repetitive.
Another strong point are the bosses, and the fact that you can fight them again and again although I suppose they had to include that for continuity and for the events they trigger
And the masks felt just great. Rolling around as a Goron, swimming with the Zora and his magic shield...
Overall, it's my favorite Zelda right after Okami


There are obviously many flaws, some collecting is just assinine, such as saving up 5,000 rupees in the bank and the repetitiveness can get old.

>> No.976403

you know what pisses me off the most

if you start playing an ocarina song right as you take it out, it doesn't register. its really annoying

>> No.976440

>>976036
I agree actually.

I had trouble getting into this game and had to really force myself to play it.

It felt very rushed (apparently it was as well) and things felt kinda tacked onto it.

I dunno, I need to give it another shot.

>> No.976672

I enjoyed it because of the way it created something new and different without forcing it, and as someone who enjoys exploring and collecting, it's hard to compete. However, the awkward controls, especially in minigames like the Goron Race and target shooting levels, really sour the experience. I can't foresee myself replaying it any time soon, but I won't forget it.

>> No.976723

>>976672

The Goron Race is fucking hell. I think some of it is luck based but man that was frusturating.

>> No.977018
File: 84 KB, 813x978, mm3d_daily_sketch_38_by_left_handed_knight-d48sae5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
977018

>>976723
I didn't have too much trouble with the race, my biggest problem is that I had to win it twice to actually use the prize.

After completing Snowhead naturally I go check out the races. Oh I have won something I can't use because there isn't enough time left. Now I have to go beat a boss and win a race, I just beat/won. Been holding that grudge a long time.

>> No.977120

>>976723
Trust me it's not luck. You just have to be fast and precise. You also have to take in mind that the gorons have a rubberband AI that rivals Mario Kart. I figured out a run that will always lead me to victory after a decade of playing and gaining experience.

>> No.977148

>>976232
>If they made all new npcs and didn't reuse so much of oot, it might stand. Fetch quests aren't content.

The whole point of reusing the same characters (apart from the lack of time) was the fact Termina is a parallel universe to Hyrule.

>> No.977152

Easily my favorite Zelda game, and actually one of my favorite games of all times.

I'm not saying it's perfect, the game has its flaws for sure, but I love it.

>> No.977157

>>977148
The whole point of Termina being a parallel universe to Hyrule was so that they could reuse the same characters and assets.

I think it's a neat idea and like it more than Termina just being some other country or kingdom, but don't kid yourself, they did this because it was cheaper.

>> No.977161

>>977157
Majoras Mask started out as Zelda Gaiden which was supposed to be an expansion pack of OoT so ... that's why.

>> No.977169

Over the past Christmas break I finally realized why I liked this game and why this might be my favorite Zelda. It's these NPCs. They have a lot of depth to them, more so than your usual Zelda characters. I care for these characters and I enjoyed helping them out.

Speaking of characters, the main cast had more emotion as well. Tatl was more energetic and more human, for a lack of a better description. If you targeted a disgusting enemy, she'd react to it and note it. Link had more animations under his belt. That made him feel less stiff in my eyes.

There were many features I enjoyed from this game, but I cannot ignore its flaws. This game is too damn short. The amount of fetchquesting in order to reach the temple was annoying ie: Zora eggs, beneath the well, goron lullaby, etc... Only about 5 or 6 masks were truly useful, and that's including the transformation masks; every other mask was one time use. And the final boss was laughably easy, with or without the FD mask.

Even with these flaws, this is still my favorite Zelda, or at least fighting for first.

>> No.977172

>>977157
>they did this because it was cheaper.

I'd say they didn't have enough time. They had about a year or so to make this, no? I'd think characters would be the last things they'd care about. I'd figure they'd want to get the core game play and plot out of the way first.

>> No.977173

MM is Donnie Darko of vidya

>> No.977228

>>976149
>I think it's more surrealist than anything.
This man knows what's up. Being "dark" is the last thing that made Majora's Mask so memorable.

>> No.977248

So I'm currently playing through MM at the moment

it's pretty good, I love the atmostphere. Only done 2 Dungeons so far and the bosses seem a bit of a cop out

Snowhead is more annoying than the Water Temple, it really pissed me off having to constantly climb back up using the same route if you fall once. And you have to ascend and descend multiple times for no real reason other than to pad the dungeon out.

Also, the time travel is pretty cool but also really annoying in some ways. So when you go back to the First Day to save everything resets, that's fine. Except, I went and got the powder keg to get to the Romani Ranch but I did it on Day 2 and when no one would talk to me I figured it was because I had to go there on Day 1. So I go back in time and the boulder is back BUT you know have to pay $100 for a Powder Keg.

How does that make any sense?

>> No.977254

>>977248
It's all about good timing.

>> No.977259

>>977248

it doesn't get better

just wait until you enter the ocean area

>> No.977260

>>977228
the thing that makes MM so memorable is the contrast with other Zelda games

For me it's the crushing sense of despair that increases for all the NPCs as time advances that makes the game particulary memorable. I don't know if that makes it 'dark' but I would certainly say it has an effective atmostphere

>> No.977262

>>977254
So I should use guides to avoid such irritations?

I couldn't know that I had to go to the ranch on the first day until I got there, so there was no way to avoid it

>>977259
oh God, what the fuck happens there?

>> No.977263

>but I think it gets a bit too much credit.

I agree. well, what we all know and repeat everytime: lack of dungeons.

game needs more dungeons.

>> No.977265

>>977262
>oh God, what the fuck happens there?

a world of pain and backtracking

>> No.977287

>>977262
I would suggest using the Zelda Dungeon walkthroughs. They're in very good detail, and they've available in text with maps etc and in video form. They're really thorough.

>> No.977294

I don't know why, but I always feel sad playing Majora's Mask. There's something about it that makes it all so depressing. I don't feel this way about any of the other Zelda games either.

>> No.977293

>>977287
I'd rather not use guides really. I tend to look up certain things online if I'm really struggling, this does happen in Zelda games a couple of times. Like with the pillar in Snowhead.

But I'd rather not just use a walkthrough, then I may as well just watch a playthrough if I'm being told what to do in such detail

>> No.977395

why is the faggot from the bank of Clocktown the only one unaffected by the flow of time?

>> No.977427

>>977395

He is affected. He makes marks on your hand so that he knows how much you have in the bank.

>> No.977457

>>977427
so what we do is basically loan money from the bank despite having it deposited it first.

>> No.977463

>>977457
the time travel doesn't make any sense

like the thing with the powder keg >>977248

you should have to do his challenge again and get a free powder keg but no, apparently time only resets in certain ways

>> No.977472

>>977457
That's how banks work IRL unfortunately.

>> No.977478

>>977262
>I couldn't know that I had to go to the ranch on the first day until I got there, so there was no way to avoid it
You are not able to get to the ranch on the first day the first time around, that's the whole point. The game is deliberately structured that you'll probably get there on the second or third day first time, to show you the consequences before you are able to do anything about it, and make you wonder what went on.

>> No.977483

>>977478
just because the game is structured to be irritating doesn't make it okay

it's still annoying and unnecessary, why not just have you do the challenge to get the free powder keg again?

>> No.977503

>>977483
I personally didn't find it irritating.

Also I think it has a kind of logic to it. The keg challenge is meant to be the unique challenge or puzzle you have to fulfill to first acquire most equippable items/weapons in the game, and in Zelda in general. Once you do it once, you don't need to do it again. So all you have to do is buy "ammo", and by the latter parts of the game money isn't really an issue.

>> No.977520

>>977503
>you don't have to do it again

except for the sake of continuity or making sense?

Are the dungeons not 'unique challenges'? How does this line of thinking work there?

>> No.977521

The only problem with the game's pacing is at the very beginning when you're stuck as a Deku scrub.

After that the game's pacing is good and consistent, since it's basically:

1. Go in the direction of the next dungeon
2. Do whatever lead up to the dungeon
3. Hit the owl statue outside of EVERY dungeon
4. Play the song of time
5. Warp back to the statue

Bam, you now have a full 3 day cycle to complete the dungeon. The whole game follows this structure, and it works really well.

>> No.977543

>>977520
>except for the sake of continuity or making sense?
Well, you get the certificate. I admit it's a case of the logic of the story being fit around gameplay, but I'm willing to accept it for the sake of the gameplay.

By "unique challenges", I meant that once you acquire the bow and arrow in the game, you keep it for the rest of the game. In every Zelda game, you keep the bow once you get it, you keep the bombs, etc. I see it as just the equivalent to that.
Sure, in this game you lose ammo and rupees, but you keep important quest items. With stuff like bombs that's kind of awkward, because the item IS the ammo. So with bombs, there's a bomb bag that you can acquire that represents your ability to carry bombs; and with the powder keg it's a certificate.

>> No.977551

I think that this is far from the best game in the LoZ series.
The sheer amount of tedious stuff that needs to be done even to complete the game without doing/finding everything can't be saved by any amount of atmosphere or pacing.
The dungeons I just really don't like this game very much at all. are plagued with poor design choices, and the bosses are mostly underwhelming, save Gyorg.
Its just a really heavily overrated game.

>> No.977560

>>977551
>are plagued with poor design choices

Like?

>> No.977564

>>977560
Everything associated with both the Goron Village and the Great Bay Temple.
They're designed to be incredibly tedious and in my opinion, that's poor design.
Also, the 'I just don't really like this game much at all' is just an oops as a result of my touchpad being stupid. Whoops.

>> No.977565
File: 12 KB, 300x225, 948969-majorasmaskmiakupractice.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
977565

It's one hard game to digest.

At first, I found myself facing the same issues as everybody else:
>oh, all characters are the same
>how the fuck do I get out of this fucking town, I don't like being a little Deku shit
>what the fuck, game over? what, I can't fucking save anywhere in the game now?

I bought the game right on release, was hyped as fuck, enjoyed it, but I didn't enjoy it properly, I treated it more like a "OOT2" instead of appreciating it as a stand alone game, I really wanted it to be a sequel, and plot-wise I got a really bizarre one. I enjoyed it, but got stuck before Snowhead temple (I didn't figure out I had to play the ocarina to make the giant guy fall asleep, I don't know why), and only replayed it years later, many years later like in 2007. I just decided to start a new file and holy shit I got hooked. Not only I understood the whole 3 day cycle system better but also enjoyed a lot the different schedules of all the NPCs, really got into it in a way I didn't before. Being able to roll around like a Goron or swiming like a Zora felt great, something totally different from OOT. The plot is amazing, I REALLY got into it especially on the Zora part, I was enjoying being part of the Indigo-go's so fucking much, I wanted more of that "bandmate simulator" thing, damn, loved jamming with the bassist, and visiting the grumpy but totally cool keyboardist band leader.

And only 4 dungeons but all 4 of them are some of the best designed on the series, especially Stone Temple. The mini temples from the moon were kind of interesting (and creepy) too.
I remember I got stuck on the goron one, because I didn't know you could just let the stick go and link would do straight jumps in the air while going fast, I just thought you had to somehow control him with the stick and I always fell to the ledges

Anyway, I 100%'d this game, and it became my favorite Zelda, only rivaling Link's Awakening.

>> No.977567

>>977564

What are some specific examples?

>> No.977575

>>977567
The camera really didn't help with getting to the cave across the chasm in the Goron Village. Getting the Goron Lullaby is really tedious as well.
The Pirates' Hideout is the worst thing unless you get the Stone Mask, which I would have never found without a walkthrough. Even with it, its still pretty horrible, because if you don't have four bottles, you have to go back and forth, wasting a ton of time. The whole Great Bay Temple is just a big game of back and forth. I realize that there is some backtracking necessary with all of the dungeon design in every Legend of Zelda game, but the Great Bay Temple really escalated the backtracking to a whole new level. It felt like I was going to a room to flip a switch so I could go flip another switch, and so on. I don't think that anyone can defend how unpleasant Gyorg was to fight, it almost felt like luck when I beat him.

>> No.977615

>>976036
I love it regardless of whatever other people say.
It obviously has flaws but.... I can't help it, it's a beautiful game in my eyes.

>> No.977624

the pre-dungeon stuff is awful, aside from the deku palace. the game feels more like work than anything.