/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9738831]

People say this had awful maps but i always loved it and it has a cool soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.9738843]

>>9738831
Same. I've played it since it came out and always preferred it over Plutonia. I like the tech base layouts, the larger variety in level design, music, and it plays a lot more like a harder Doom 2. Maps get huge and mazy which I love, but aren't full of a bunch of traps that can instant kill you.

Plutonia is a more cohesive wad, but it's so damn brown, and has too many traps that make playing the levels a slog, where in TNT you can escape by the skin of your teeth, get powered back up and finish the map much more often.

[Anonymous No.9738857]

>>9738843
i couldn't of said it better my self anon. i did dislike a few of the maps, plutonia is bland and annoying but had that level where they spammed monsters fucking everywhere

[Anonymous No.9738865]

>>9738857
It's funny because I am going to play it through again on UV. This time I am going for a no save state run, so when I die, I start from pistol. I have no idea how far I am going to make it. I think I tried this with Doom 2 and couldn't do it.

[Anonymous No.9738875]

>>9738865
UV and no saving is how i always play. the doom games are pretty easy imo but i couldnt play duke 3d very much on damn im good though.

[Anonymous No.9738885]

>>9738875
I'm not that good. I abuse save states all the way through past Doom 1.

[Anonymous No.9738891]

>>9738885
I suck at plenty of other games like blood. i used to play doom two hands on a keyboard like a spastic and wondered why i kept getting beat in the multiplayer.

[Anonymous No.9738973]

>>9738843
>it plays a lot more like a harder Doom 2
This is not a good thing.

[Anonymous No.9739669]

>>9738831
I like it, but it really is a very uneven product thrown together by a bunch of amateurs, and it really shows at parts. The music is great, I love the atmospheric and lengthy exploratory treks, and as a whole it manages to have a sort of coherent visual style without even aiming for one, but some authors were clearly much more adept at making levels than others.
Plutonia is not as oriented after aesthetics or creating any kind of mood, but instead its focus on pure gameplay pays off and it's just a delightful action arcade adventure from start to finish. Tough, but in smart and fun ways.

>>9738843
I do like the wider variety in level design more, even if it gets lopsided at parts.

>where in TNT you can escape by the skin of your teeth
You can do this in Plutonia as well, frequently the best solution to an ambush is to either fall back and make more space for yourself, OR, to instead rush forward, which might seem counter-intuitive at first, particularly if more monsters are coming from that direction, but just the same you may find the space and cover you need ahead of you.
I didn't use to like Plutonia that much back in the day, vastly preferring Evilution, but it's grown on me a lot over the years.
Maybe some day I'll try my hand at making something which is like a halfway between Plutonia and Evilution, aiming towards the best of both worlds.

>>9738865
Gotta warn you that TNT is not balanced too well for Pistol Start. Map 29 stands out as being fucking agony if you want to UV-Max it, because it has a lot of Cell ammo, but the Plasma Rifle doesn't spawn on UV, so that level alone becomes a complete chore, and in that case it's best enjoyed by just trying to avoid fighting a lot of enemies.

[Anonymous No.9740032]

>>9739669
>Maybe some day I'll try my hand at making something which is like a halfway between Plutonia and Evilution, aiming towards the best of both worlds.

Sounds like something i would daydream back when i was a kid. I tried doing a doom 1 and 2 kind of mashup but it went absoutely nowhere. would love to see it done. or a rearranged doom sounds kino to me also

[Anonymous No.9740315]

>>9738831
Look it's the ennerprize from the star trek

[Anonymous No.9740316]

>>9738857
>couldn't of said
Jesus fucking Christ...

[Anonymous No.9740798]

>>9740032
>I tried doing a doom 1 and 2 kind of mashup but it went absoutely nowhere.
there was a wad called Ultimate Doom Redux that took all the Doom Levels and made it into a fun megawad for doom 2

[Anonymous No.9740810]

icarus is better

[Anonymous No.9740883]

>>9740810
I think it's rougher, honestly, because it doesn't even have the cool atmosphere of Evilution.

[Anonymous No.9740967]

>>9738831
Some of the maps are trash, but some are great, just like every classic doom game as it turns out. But yeah, the music rocks.

[Anonymous No.9741338]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RneniPoiqtM
I fucking love this song so much, it's a goddamn banger

[Anonymous No.9741392]

>>9738831
Is it canon?

[Anonymous No.9742121]

I totally dislike FinalDoom as a whole but there's 1 or 2 maps that are great - "HumanBBQ" and the outstanding "Wormhole".

[Anonymous No.9742140]

>>9740316
Yes I'm retarded. What a shocker

[Anonymous No.9742149]

>>9741338
Yeah it's awesome how they have a berserk pack at very start and you go in gibbing enemies with your fists while it plays

[Anonymous No.9742153]

>>9740798
I think I might of heard of it. Few years ago I played this wad that was doom 2 but it had a lot of extension done to it. Lost the wad after formatting my PC and never remembered what it was, I miss it a lot

[Anonymous No.9742156]

>>9742140
For future reference, it's couldenent.

[Anonymous No.9742157]

>>9742121
>wormhole
That level confuses me because I remember when I played it back in the day I found myself at the exit in less than a minute. Turns out it I ignored 90% of the map

[Anonymous No.9742160]

>>9742156
Much appreciated teech

[Anonymous No.9742335]

>>9741338
Take a listen to it recreated on a YM2612 synth, recorded from an actual Sega Genesis
https://youtu.be/MTBi5mBhw7k?t=36

[Anonymous No.9742379]

>>9738831
It's one of the depressive mid-90's megawads full of huge empty spaces and vanilla textures. No, thanks.
5/10 at best.

[Anonymous No.9742403]

>>9738831
>People say this had awful maps
The people who say that are looking at it from 20+ years of hindsight and megawads.
It's not spectacular but it's a perfectly fine mapset even for the time. I prefer Plutonia but I still come back to it sometimes.

[Anonymous No.9742643]

>>9742157

That's the cool thing about it - you have to be brave and explore. The map super spooky on the PSX.

[Anonymous No.9742646]

>>9742379

It was shit as a whole but there's a few good maps in there.

[Anonymous No.9742884]

Dindt the secret level map 32 have a bug that took them fucking ages to fix even though it was just a simple bug with the keyycard placement rendering the level unfinishable without cheating

[Anonymous No.9742908]

>>9742884
MAP31 had the yellow key tagged for only spawning in multiplayer, and Team TNT themselves did catch that, and they uploaded a fix on their site, but for whatever reason iD only ever got around to fixing it in late production of the iD Anthology collection.

You can bypass it with a slick straferun, or just using IDCLIP. GzDoom has a built in function which will automatically fix the tagging for the yellow key if it detects that you're loading up the unfixed version of the level.

[Anonymous No.9742960]

>>9742908
Yea I remembered the whole thing incorrectly. I remember back when all I knew if was doom95 I believe the pharaoh level or whatever it was called had the missing yellow key in single player. Possibly another false memory of mine.

[Anonymous No.9743054]

MAP31 has one of the best BGMs in the series, really floored me as a kid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_RjpxPwBYA

Was it a rip-off of some classic rock song too? Or completely original?

[Anonymous No.9743083]

>>9742960
>>9742908
>>9742884
git gud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPZQsO9_Wmg

[Anonymous No.9743261]

>>9743083
I-i knew that anon, there was a time I didnt though.

[Anonymous No.9743379]

First quarter or so is a bit...anal. Gets better afterward.

ASCENDED TIER: PLUTONIA 2

TOP TIER: PLUTONIA, TNT

MID TIER: ...EH? EVERYTHING NOT IN THE OTHER CATEGORIES

LOW TIER: ORIGINAL DOOM 2

TRASH TIER: WHO CARES?

[Anonymous No.9743439]

>>9743379
Ultimate doom will always be my nigga

[Anonymous No.9743484]

>>9743083
Yeah, that's what I mean by the straferun, it's not too hard to pull.

>>9743379
I've always loved Plutonia 2, it's one of the classics, but I think it gets a bit off course for the Plutonia thing because of how a lot of levels are designed.

In the original Plutonia, the levels really weren't that lengthy or big at all, you can max a lot of them in like 10 minutes, with only two exceptions to that, MAP29, and MAP32. Odyssey Of Noises is a big and cool city battle serving as the semi-finale to the campaign, while Go 2 It is the extra secret level which more or less codified the slaughter map genre.
Meanwhile, in PL2, MAP10, MAP11, MAP17, MAP20, MAP21, MAP23, MAP27, MAP29, MAP32, these are all levels which are either quite big, or otherwise time consuming. Now, they are by no means bad because of that, PL2's MAP11 I think is a great escalation of the original one and it's one of my favorites, just the same for MAP29 and MAP32, which are supposed to be long anyway.
It's just with all these long 'epics,' it doesn't always capture the quick and punchy nature of the original, a sentiment which Dario Casali himself actually echoed. He really liked Plutonia 2, but felt it was noticeably different in style a lot of the time.

[Anonymous No.9744516]

Deepest reaches was fucking atrocious

[Anonymous No.9744523]

>>9738831
I also enjoy TNT more than Plutonia. Plutonia is mostly bullshit. They are both massively inferior to Doom and Doom 2, though. Which are, in turn, inferior to Heretic.

[Anonymous No.9744535]

>>9744523
I haven't got the brainpower for heretic or hexen

[Anonymous No.9744537]

>>9744535
Hexen I can understand, it's just a shitload of mazes and travelling between levels to push switches. Heretic is just like doom though - 3 keys per level, kill a bunch of stuff, level is over. Would highly recommend.

[Anonymous No.9744541]

>>9744537
I did play the first episode of heretic but it took me a lot longer to figure out where the fuck I was going but did complete the first episode beat that minotaur thing with the hammer

[Anonymous No.9744664]

>>9744516
>deepest reaches music
>oooblahooblahblah oooblahooblahblah niggyniggyniggyniggyniggynoooog nig not nog nug nob nig nig nog

[Anonymous No.9744846]

>>9744664
Not as kino as map 30 ost it sounded so Scottish laddy

[Anonymous No.9745342]

>>9744537
Heretic is just a mediocre fantasy Doom WAD. What's so great about it.
Now Hexen is more interesting.

[Anonymous No.9745615]

>>9744523
I guess you don't like action very much.

>>9744535
Heretic is like Doom, but not quite as good. Hexen is a bit like peeling away a lot of the good Doomy elements still left in Heretic, and then simplifying the weapons and enemies so that they're far less varied and fun.

Instead, you do a lot of tedious hunting for keys and switches across hubs of maps. This isn't hard or anything, but it's protracted and dull because things aren't always conveyed well to players, pulling a lever somewhere and being told "One third of the puzzle has been solved." is common, and by 'puzzle' they mean finding the other generic and unmarked switches in that map and hitting those too.
You do also get doors marked for special keys, and special switches, which are a lot more straightforward, but there's gonna be a lot of filler inbetween those.
At least that's how I feel. Some people really like Hexen, but to me, the combat, exploration, and progression, is just not any fun.

The weapons are too few and they feel like they lack punch at times. The centaur is a tedious cunt to fight, and it feels like his intended role in the enemy lineup is to waste my time and make me groan. I know you can use your flechettes on him when he raises his shield, but it doesn't make him any more fun to fight against, because he isn't some sort of pressing threat, he's a highway tollbooth on legs. If the centaur was rare and actually threatening, then I would be far more inclined to tolerate his shield usage.

[Anonymous No.9746076]

Plutonia is just /vr/ try hard maps

[Anonymous No.9746104]

TNT pioneered making levels BIG, nowadays every fan level has 300 enemies, uses all 3 keys, and has at least 3 designated ambush rooms guarding each key. TNT just doesn't have diffucult curated encounters and is more the old style of "build a hallway and populate it" so playing it today it might feel like a slog

[Anonymous No.9746113]

>>9746076
They're only moderately tough, and I say that as someone who isn't especially good at the game or anything.

If you want 'tryhard' difficulty, then either look at something like Combat Shock and Sunder, optionally something really extreme such as Okuplok and Not Even Remotely Fair, the latter which can only be played on Nightmare.

Plutonia isn't easygoing, it was designed to be really tough, but it's seldom unfair about its challenge. If you find its gameplay bullshit, I earnestly encourage giving it a try on Hurt Me Plenty or Hey, Not Too Rough, because they did balance those difficulty levels too, and it might just click for you.

[Anonymous No.9746250]

>>9744846
I thought i was the only one that thought level 8, 27 and 30 music sounded scottish for some reason

[Anonymous No.9746263]

>>9745342
>>9744537
>>9744535
what about this niggas game? It has a staff which spreads its legs and sprays lightning too

[Anonymous No.9746268]

>>9746113
>but it's seldom unfair about its challen--
>another chaingunner instant death trap spawns behind you
>--ACK

[Anonymous No.9746278]

>>9746268
>i'm just gonna press this swit-
>Mother fucking arch vile
>oh shit oh fuck shit oh fu-

[Anonymous No.9747052]

>>9746263
Kino game

[Anonymous No.9747673]

>>9747052
>portal of praevus
based

[Anonymous No.9747820]

>>9738831
The ship in the OP pic looks like a knockoff USS Enterprise.

[Anonymous No.9748232]

>>9747820
Looks like a space dildo. Based tnt enjoyer

[Anonymous No.9749454]

>>9738831
i finished doom 1 - eps 1-4 + sigil on UV 100% items, doom 2 UV 100% items, and plutonia UV 100% items...started TNT but only got a few eps in till i got bored...

is it really worth playing?

[Anonymous No.9749528]

>>9749454
not worth playing imo, there's some fine maps but i alway drop it at around map 20

[Anonymous No.9749748]

>>9749454
Evilution is a divisive set, and always has been. It's made by a platoon of different people in the very earliest days of the fandom, some of the guys were better level designers than others, some were quite poor level designers. I'm personally very fond of TNT, but I recognize a lot of the flaws and I think it's very understandable when someone can't get into it, you would be forgiven for giving it a pass.
As a TNT apologist, however, I'll shoot my shot with this tier list.

Choice Cuts:
>MAP01: System Control
>MAP02: Human BBQ
>MAP06: Open Season
>MAP09: Stronghold
>MAP11: Storage Facility
>MAP15: Dead Zone
>MAP23: Lunar Mining Project
>MAP28: Heck
>MAP32: Caribbean
These are the best parts IMO, if you wanted to see what I think is TNT's best sides, that's these levels, Stronghold is one of my favorites ever.

Decent:
>MAP04: Wormhole
>MAP13: Nukage Processing
>MAP18: Mill
>MAP19: Shipping/Respawning
>MAP29: River Styx
>MAP31: Pharaoh
Imperfect, but I think they've got some stuff going for them, Wormhole is neat for its gimmick, and River Styx is kind of cool, just don't pistol start it. Pharaoh needs a patch or a straferun to clear.

Flawed:
>MAP07: Prison
>MAP16: Deepest Reaches
>MAP20: Central Processing
>MAP21: Administrative Center
>MAP26: Ballistyx
>MAP27: Mount Pain
Kinda rough, some of these are very large and drawn out, which some people hate. Worth sight seeing though, as they've got some neat visuals, even if just looking at them with Doom Builder.

Poor:
>MAP05: Hanger
>MAP12: Crater
>MAP14: Steel Works
>MAP30: Last Call
There's attempts, but they fall flat.

Forgettable:
>MAP03: Power Control
>MAP10: Redemption
>MAP17: Processing Area
>MAP24: Quarry
Absolute filler.

Inexcusable:
>MAP08: Metal
>MAP22: Habitat
>MAP25: Baron's Den
What where they THINKING?

[Anonymous No.9749851]

One way to spice up TNT would be to try playing it with -fastmonsters to give some of the weaker parts more bite. Maybe try out this music pack as well:
https://youtu.be/MTBi5mBhw7k

[Anonymous No.9749906]

>>9749748
>>>MAP25: Baron's Den
Underrated map. Has a nice flow to it, just needed a final set piece to put it over the top.
>>MAP22: Habitat
It might be broken and unfinished, but picrel is pure soul.

[Anonymous No.9750934]

>>9749851
Thank god its not lorcan.

[Anonymous No.9751559]

>>9750934
Fuck u lorcan is kino. I wanna fuck her up her ass while I blast her remix

[Anonymous No.9751790]

>>9749906
Kino maps

[Anonymous No.9753234]

>>9750934
Lorcan's is ok, but MAP08/27/30s theme is inexcusably toned down.

>>9749906
There's attempts with Habitat, but the guy's other map, the first one in Icarus, is far better. I mainly hate Baron's Den for the progression.

[Anonymous No.9753973]

>>9751559
based

[Anonymous No.9754432]

>>9746263
Based Portal of praevus poster. also based description of the tempest staff kek

[Anonymous No.9754812]

>>9749454
It made me take a break from doom for almost a year