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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 558 KB, 882x341, zelda heights.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707167 No.9707167 [Reply] [Original]

Its deniers like to point out that Hero's Spirit being OoT Link was an afterthought, and one of their strongest arguments is the he's way too tall to be Link.

But it makes perfect sense when you remember that OoT Link in TP is also MM Link. He died in battle and made use of every upgrade, power-up and tool at his disposal, which doesn't just include a lot of things we probably don't even know about...but also Fierce Deity. MM Link never returned the Fierce Deity Mask.

>> No.9707174

>>9707167
Does the Zelda series have the best vidya story ever? It's the perfect balance between gamey and operatic

>> No.9707178

>>9707167
I never knew FD was that huge wtf. Thought he was just like adult Link

>> No.9707191

>>9707174
Yeah but I think that Half-Life 1 and Team Ico games also do a really good job with telling the players a story while barely having any cutscenes

>> No.9707193
File: 413 KB, 944x1267, Timeline_Hyrule_Historia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707193

>the epic saga spanning Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess comes to its definitive and bittersweet end in the final episode................The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures™ (GameCube – Game Boy Advance link cable included™)

>> No.9707195

>>9707193
Didn't BOTW quite literally break this entire timeline?

>> No.9707196

>>9707193
To be fair, I think BotW is now the latest Zelda and finally gives the series a worthy finale

>>9707195
How?

>> No.9707198

>>9707195
BOTW takes place at the very end or something.

But they make the game first disregarding whatever shit they did before if that fits better.
And for the autists they just ram it somewhere in a timeline that fits best overall.

>> No.9707207

>>9707193
>The Wind Waker
>PH
>ST
This is the most laid back and feel-good timeline. Literally nothing all that epic and serious happens

>> No.9707208

>>9707195
No, it takes place at the end of the Downfall timeline.

>> No.9707213

>>9707207
The whole world gets flooded, anon...

>> No.9707220

>>9707174
Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask are unironically three of the best video game stories ever told. Perfect gameplay:cutscene ratio, rich themes that aren't in your face but can be felt through every facet of the game design, and the bulk of the narrative revolves around telling YOUR story through gameplay.

TLoZ, AoL, and ALttP also pull this off, but they're not as narratively or thematically interesting. The Wind Waker was the last Zelda games before BotW with real themes and a proper gameplay/story balance.

>> No.9707221

>>9707207
everybody but one dude dies between PH & ST

>> No.9707227

>>9707207
>entire world flooded with billions dead

>> No.9707268
File: 1.12 MB, 1417x1280, bible.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707268

>>9707227
So they go to heaven, big deal

>> No.9707272

>>9707213
>>9707227
Yes I knew people would point that out, I meant that starting from WW, not between OoT and WW. Obviously the flood is one of the worst things to happen in Zelda
>>9707221
They all died of old age

>> No.9707313
File: 24 KB, 223x222, the day the timeline died.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707313

>>9707193

>> No.9707324

>>9707313
This game is like the regular Four Swords, if it didn't exist literally nothing would change. People who like it don't like it enough to care if it just disappears

>> No.9707386
File: 1.32 MB, 1525x1000, ww if real.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707386

>>9707313
Does the timeline even bother factoring it in? Seems TP Crossbow Training tier

Also keep in mind each Zelda game is its own legend and parable, so they all take liberty to look different, change things like geography and have their own tone. If you viewed all the Zelda games as one, WW and OoT would obviously look the same and they would have a consistent level of gravity or jocularity

Takes some imagination, but even something like Four Swords could be a very serious event in Hyrule's history

>> No.9707409

>>9707167
>desperately trying to ignore all the inconsistencies to pretend a timeline isn't a retcon
That's just sad

>> No.9707414

>>9707409
>inconsistencies
See >>9707386. inconsistencies in Zelda aren't by accident but to make unique games and prioritize gameplay

>> No.9707415

>>9707167
Zelda games don't even have good lore let alone interesting stories in their own right (with a handful of exceptions).
Here's an analysis of the rich themes of OoT:
>Ganon is bad, so you kill him but not really, since there's a million more Zelda games
These are decent enough games, but Zelda fans are still mindbroken by OoT to this day and spend their days analysing the connection between Ganon is bad (OoT) and Ganon is bad (CDi), being mystified by this breathtaking literary masterpiece. I'm not even saying the black and white morality is bad – we all know Thanos and his consequences have been a disaster for villainy – but there is NOTHING else to the story: the moment-to-moment events are uninteresting at best and retarded at worst (Zelda just revealing herself and immediately getting kidnapped near the end of OoT... wtf), and the stories do not really say anything. You can pretend it's actually all extremely subtle and deep if you crosscheck this one line in the whole game in a sidequest with another sole line in another game released 20 years later. Before somebody comments, "OoT is a coming-of-age story that's all about the passage of time and growing up", you should know that merely depicting something – as though the writer is ticking some checklist – doesn't mean you actually went anywhere with it.

>> No.9707423

>>9707415
There is a reason why Zelda fans spend more time trying to prove that there is even a story in the first place than actually discussing and analysing said themes; I can't think of any other work of art needs such a preamble before anything can be said.

>> No.9707424

>>9707193
I like how the timeline is basically
>cartoon Zelda, play this if under 15
>normal Zelda, play this if 15-35
>classic Zelda, play this if over 35
Should've just separated into sub-brands rather than some kind of a timeline.

>> No.9707425

>>9707415
>>9707423
>>9707424
>he woke up

>> No.9707426

>>9707414
>games aren't developed randomly but rather to make them more enjoyable
Woah there pal settle down with your crazy theories

>> No.9707428
File: 10 KB, 197x127, Clipboard02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707428

>>9707425
>he is a schizo

>> No.9707429

holy shit it’s a videogame you fucking nerds

>> No.9707434

>>9707428
Everyone here is well aware that you are using a phone for speed shitposting

>> No.9707439

>>9707434
How do do the first two posts you replied to even connect to the third? The first two disregard Zelda's story altogether regardless of demographic

>> No.9707450

>>9707439
It's always kinda obvious when a thread is 100% chill, and I mean literally 100% chill, and then you make your three shitposts literally, and I mean literlaly, in a row

You are a samfagging pyscho and apparently the dumbest human being in the world for thinking you're being subtle

>> No.9707462

>>9707450
There's nothing even aggressive about that third post, you fucking retard. If the other fella agrees to get on vocaroo we can prove we're different people

>> No.9707481

>>9707415
>Zelda games don't even have good lore
No one said anything about lore and Zelda games have more and better lore (story the game doesn't spell out for you, I guess?) then most games
>Link's background, the war, Link's parents, how Kokiris/Skullkids work, how Gerudos and Ganondorf work, everything surrounding the Triforce, everything surrounding the royal family's dirty laundry, the Sheikah, the hidden torture chambers, all the NPCs with their little stories, like Dampe, proto Mario/Luigi, the cursed family, the royal composers, the guilt masks Sheikah put on prisoners which is where undeads come from, Zelda/Sheik and things the manga touches on, all the dungeons and their themes and what their purpose was in the world, the dungeon masters, enemies and enemy placement in the world, the inadvertent connections with other Zelda games, Ganondorf's imprisonment, Link losing or not returning, and way more
Then MM blows OoT out of the water and is a direct sequel

>> No.9707484

>>9707481
All just a lot of empty filler to me.

>> No.9707487

>>9707484
As opposed to who put the dinos in Tomb Raider, I know, anon

>> No.9707492
File: 56 KB, 1080x392, timezone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707492

>>9707462
Brilliant revelation, actually: https://voca.ro/1nWyDJ7dggWt

>> No.9707497

>>9707492
That you have an autistic friend aiding you in your daily Nintendo shitposting isn't proving that you don't shitpost. Neither are screenshots or "timezones". All of this just shows that you protest a bit too much

>> No.9707510

>>9707492
>admits the first two posts are made by him after making a big scene because people notice it
KWAB of the month

>> No.9707513

>>9707415
imagine tryharding with en dashes on 4chan but not even using them right

>> No.9707521

>>9707510
So I was 2/3 right either way

>> No.9707524
File: 391 KB, 1080x890, Screenshot_20230303_021239.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707524

>>9707497
Look at the dates on the screenshots. The other cunt's still stuck in fuckin Thursday
https://voca.ro/1me7cC6Ac2iX

>> No.9707531

Everybody here is ignoring how completely retarded the OPs point is. Youre telling me link was just walking around as the fierce diety and THATS why hes so tall? Dude would have had the power of a literal god. Isn't it more likely link wasnt 17 and grew to the size of a large adult by the time he died post MM and pre TP? What does the fucking mask have to do with this other than "link big"

>> No.9707534

>>9707524
You posted enough cringe now

>> No.9707532

>>9707510
I admitted to it because, well, those two posts were fuckin made by me??? I don't see how identifying the addendum to my previous post is a spirit bomb of a rebuttal
>>9707513
What do they teach in the US that my use of en dashes is wrong, lol. Go read the Dakyns translation of Anabasis

>> No.9707535

>>9707532
>What do they teach in the US that my use of en dashes is wrong, lol.
For one, you shouldn't put them between spaces. Takes 2 seconds to Google. Just makes you look like an uneducated Mexican from /lit/

>> No.9707537
File: 409 KB, 960x955, vpymcun6n4k81.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707537

>>9707481
Imo it's to Zelda's credit how much it borrows from Tolkien, be it the first boss being a spider (Ungoliant) that spreads death and poisons the magic tree (Trees of Valinor) at the behest of the devil-stand-in Ganondorf (Melkor), the world being a creation of space elves (Ainur), the story being about good versus evil and nine heroes who represent a range of different peoples (nine heroes of the Fellowship) that put their differences aside to fight unambiguously evil Ganondorf (Sauron), who covets nothing but power and the Triforce (One Ring), enjoys the color black, distorts the natural world, takes up residence in an ominous tower and commands strong but simple Moblins (Orcs), swarthy Gerudos with red hair (Easterlings with red headscarves) and creatures as strange as Morpha (Watcher in the Water), Kokiris being tiny simpletons hiding in the woods (Fallohides/hobbits), Gorons being brawny hotheads (dwarves) mining in Death Mountain (Mount Doom) until they rouse a fire monster (Balrog) and find themselves suffering at the claws of a dragon (Smaug), with Zoras being their obvious counterpart (Elves to Dwarves)

>> No.9707539

>>9707535
Thx for outing yourself as not having read the Dakyns translation of Anabasis. That rule you describe is not for en dashes but em dashes. In fact, typing a hyphen and pressing space is how you get an en dash in MS Word since that's the expected use.

>> No.9707540

>>9707174
>>9707220
Same with the music, it's never too pompous or too annoyingly simple. Very memorable

>> No.9707542

>>9707539
>That rule you describe is not for en dashes but em dashes.
Literally the opposite

>> No.9707543

>>9707535
But wait, do other languages not even use en dashes? Are we really the only ones who recognisedthe utility of punctuation?

>> No.9707549
File: 118 KB, 800x439, sheikas.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707549

>>9707537
Sheikah are blue wizards

>> No.9707554

>>9707542
Two Google searches discredit your claim: (1) "en dash space" and (2) "em dash space". What do you need a space for with an em dash anyway when it's so fucking huge? A space would provide nothing for readability, whereas an en dash and a hyphen are most clearly disambiguated through spaces on either side of the former.

>> No.9707569

>>9707415
>Noooooo!!!!! Nothing ever means anything in a story!!

Legitimately one of the most braindead posts I've seen on /vr/. There's refusing to engage with media and then there's this anti-intellectualist nonsense. Just admit you don't know how to think critically or analyze. It's fine. We're only going to make fun of you a little bit.

The reason Ocarina of Time is so thematically rich is specifically because it puts its surface level story first and foremost and lets the gameplay tell the rest of the story. OoT is 100% a coming of age story that is all about the passage of time and growing up, and it is ingrained in the game design, in the game's pacing, in the items you can use, in how dungeons increase in scope, in how the game's tone changes.

When you are only capable of looking at the surface level, of course you'll never see what's there.

>> No.9707572

>>9707324
>>9707386
It's official
https://zeldauniverse.net/2016/01/26/nintendo-place-tri-force-heroes-in-the-official-zelda-timeline/

>> No.9707573

>>9707434
At first, everyone here was "well aware" it was one guy using his phone to aid in high speed shitposting
>>9707450
In fact, it was obvious
>>9707497
But then, it became less obvious, and we were not so well aware. The information available to you changed, but not your conclusion...

>> No.9707578

What more is there to the story than ganon kidnaps zelda, link defeats ganon and rescues zelda. Just like bowser kidnaps peach and mario rescues peach. Not much Depth to Nintendo stuff, reminder that better games exist on basically any other consoles, even 3do and jaguar.

>> No.9707582

>>9707167
I think the Hero's Shade is to Link as Demise is to Ganon and as Goddess Hylia is to Zelda (i.e., the original entity whose spirit is being reincarnated in each game). The original Hero imprisoned Demise with the help of Goddess Hylia and that conflict is what's being repeated over generations as all their spirits reincarnate and clash in a tangled web of fate. TP Link was unlocking memories of the original Hero whose spirit is within him and it was represented as the Hero's Shade training him in his mind. I think the Fierce Deity mask turns Link into a facsimile of who the Hero's Shade was in life, just as the other masks do for the people you get them from.

>> No.9707585

>>9707569
>Just admit you don't know how to think critically or analyze
Oh yeah because OoT is the benchmark for profound narratives. If I listed movies games, books etc whose stories I do appreciate and do analyse, you'll likely just say those are actually shit and not as deep as OoT since you've already made up your mind.
>it is ingrained in the game design
Yeah I'm sure there was a well-thought out message about the meaning of life in "this item lets you open a door which you are arbitrarily unable to open with your existing equipment. You will also never use this item again once you leave the dungeon you found it in".

>> No.9707586

>>9707578
Ganon bleeds bro

>> No.9707591

>>9707193
i love how duct tape the solution to making space in the timeline was; Four Swords Adventures depicts ganon getting the trident, leading into ALTTP, oracles, LA, Zelda 1, etc. So they just broke off the timeline after FSA and declared ALTTP some dubiously canon "Link eats shit offscreen", despite every other game being based off of canon storyline sequences that happened in every player's game. It's Nintendo saying "just trust me bro" for no real reason.

>> No.9707592

>>9707585
Bro it's actually a metaphor for capitalism and the arbitrary stuff you wade through to get past the great filter

>> No.9707598

>>9707591
Would have been easier to just say all the pre-OoT games (and the occasional throwback title) were a separate canon from the rest. Nintendo already did it for Star Fox and F-Zero, after all.

>> No.9707612

>>9707592
>>9707585
>>9707569
Also, the idea that I'm too braindead to analyse OoT's story falls apart given that I did analyse it and came to the same conclusion as you did. My analysis differed however with me saying that merely depicting something doesn't mean anything was actually done with it. You speak of subtlety when OoT having a coming-of-age narrative is as subtle and rich as a reference in a Big Bang Theory episode is a joke. I'm not trying to call you stupid because you're clearly not, but OoT's story is obviously not profound.

>> No.9707616

>>9707598
And easier to throw all the Toon games into some Toon Only ghetto.

>> No.9707618

>>9707616
That works, too.

>> No.9707619

>>9707585
>>9707592
>>9707612
Why are you talking to yourself?

>> No.9707620

>>9707591
It would be better if it wasn't, "The Hero is Defeated," and was instead, "The Hero Inadvertently Abandoned This Timeline Because of Time Travel Shenanigans," but the idea of all-out war breaking out due to Ganondorf accessing the Sacred Realm and having no Hero to stop him then and there is pretty solid. I think they had to go with "The Hero is Defeated" for the sake of simplicity because it's easier for everyone to understand.

>> No.9707625

>>9707619
Adding addenda for your reading pleasure isn't talking to myself. I can't tell whether you're being serious

>> No.9707648

>>9707625
> I can't tell whether you're being serious

Because you have terrible observation skills and can't even properly analyze a basic human interaction.

>> No.9707712

>>9707537
Everything is based on Tolkien shit, it made Beowulf and Nordic folklore mainstream

>> No.9707715

>>9707712
Wagner did a lot for Germanic folklore too

>> No.9707716

>>9707578
You could break down a lot of stories like that and being simple doesn't equal bad

>> No.9707720
File: 317 KB, 1000x1472, fierce deity.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707720

Making Fierce Deity boss fight only was the dumbest thing a great game ever did

>> No.9707721

>>9707716
If anything, simplicity was Zelda's narrative strength until Twilight Princess decided to go full fantasy epic. Breath of the Wild is the first respectable Zelda story since Wind Waker.

>> No.9707731

>>9707720
Having to do every sidequest in the game to get it was dumber.

>> No.9707737

>>9707731
Not a single bad side quest in MM is coming to mind.

>> No.9707749
File: 61 KB, 1000x562, 1677371458138194.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707749

>>9707481
A lot of things happen mostly behind the scenes, see Saria and Darunia being bff

>> No.9707754

>>9707737
It's more that you shouldn't get the coolest thing in the game when you've already done everything in the game and are burnt out.

>> No.9707764
File: 123 KB, 320x559, Shikashi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707764

>>9707549

>> No.9707830

>>9707754
isn't getting a super overpowered demon transformation that lets you face roll the final boss a perfect reward for being burnt out and just wanting the game to end?

>> No.9707861

>>9707754
That's every game though, you never get the cool stuff until there's nothing left to use it on

>> No.9707863

>>9707167
The timeline exists but only for a few specific games that are obviously connected like ocarina of time, majoras mask, wind waker, phantom hourglass and spirit tracks

>> No.9707869

>>9707167
>being a lorefag
Is there anything more embarrassing then psycho-analyzing a children's game?

>> No.9707881

>>9707869
Getting triggered by it

>> No.9707950
File: 391 KB, 823x1568, 91a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9707950

lol

>> No.9707992

>>9707167
>he's way too tall to be Link.
He was also a FUKCING WOLF before he turned into the stalfos from to instruct Link. It's obvious he can shapeshift at will.,

>> No.9708013

>>9707992
No reason to assume it's a Stalfos and not just Link/TP's Fierce Deity. There are Stalfos in TP and they don't look human
>FUCKING WOLF
So like TP Link? The Triforce is said to be the reason he retains his physical form, although altered. They both have a Triforce

>> No.9708050

>>9707992
>>9708013
I prefer this theory: >>9707582

>> No.9708279

>>9707582
This makes sense and would be good but probably too far out there or Nintendo would have said something like that instead of just saying it's Ocarina Link

>> No.9708478

The only timeline that matters:
>Zelda 1 then Zelda 2
>LttP then LA then OoS/OoA
>OoT then MM
>WW then PH then ST (with WW acknowledging OoT happened millennia ago)
>MC then FS then FSA
All other connections are either non-existent, tenuous at best, or from non-/vr/ games designed with the faggot-ass "official timeline" in mind.

>> No.9708494

>>9708279
Oh, did they really officially state that the Hero's Shade is literally OoT Link? That's lame... I'll stick to my headcanon but I guess it'll never be more than that.

>> No.9708535

Zelda lore is so boring and uninteresting it's a wonder why people invest this much autism into it.

>> No.9708571

We've been over this. There's pretty much two timelines in any meaningful sense.
>Pre Aonuma timeline
OOT > ALTTP > LoZ > AoL
>Post Aonuma revised timeline
SS > OOT > MM> WW/TP > AoC> BotW

Tying in GB games, or trying to tie the original games to the new games is always a reach, because people making those games simply aren't thinking that way.
The "official timeline" was pulled out of their ass too. I don't consider it real.

>> No.9708678

>>9708535
It's a wonder people get triggered by people caring about things in the games they play and like

>> No.9708698

>>9708571
>because people making those games simply aren't thinking that way
They aren't considering the games that came before? Maybe it's harder now which is why the last few big Zeldas were an origin story, a "lulz a million years later" story and a direct ALTTP sequel, but I'm sure they were thinking about it when making Oracle and LA
>The "official timeline" was pulled out of their ass too. I don't consider it real.
Why such hard feelings when "your" timeline agrees with the official one?

>> No.9708713
File: 260 KB, 789x1490, 6837965391_de91e2092e_o.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9708713

>ALttP concept art shows Zelda wearing Sheikah attire

>> No.9708724

Why is ALTTP Link a bunny but TP Link a wolf? ALTTP Link was hardcore as fuck and stormed a castle in the first minute of the game

>> No.9708727

>>9708698
>I'm sure they were thinking about it when making Oracle and LA
Link's Awakening was a sequel to LttP and originally started as an LttP Game Boy port, LONG before anyone was debating a timeline.
Oracles were made by Capcom and not Nintendo at all, so I'm not sure that they were thinking too deeply about timelines, either.

>> No.9708827

>>9707174
yes. no muh intrigues and unpredictable anime betrayals cringe

>> No.9708842
File: 162 KB, 346x322, 1622551306220.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9708842

>>9708678
>Criticism means you're triggered
Typical Zelda bab. Over-analyzing kindergarten level story telling doesn't make you smart..

>> No.9708846

>>9707531
Only reasonable poster here.

>> No.9708892

>>9707531
I didn't think OP's point was worthy of a response

>> No.9708894

>>9708846
>>9708892
>growing 2 feet when you're already nearing 18
>reasonable
Stop samefagging

>> No.9708907
File: 190 KB, 720x1520, Screenshot_20230302-203937.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9708907

>>9708894

>> No.9708909

>>9708907
Every time someone pretends a screenshot is proof it's a confirmation for samefagging. There aren't two people retarded enough to believe you can grow 2 feet past 18, not even on /vr/

>> No.9708912

>>9708727
>Oracles were made by Capcom and not Nintendo at all, so I'm not sure that they were thinking too deeply about timelines, either.
i don't think they thought hard about it (because the shit zelda says in the oracle games makes no sense), but they did clearly give it some thought as the games end on a blatant links awakening shout out. they tried to add timeline stuff and fucked it up, basically

>> No.9708917

>>9708909
Like I said, I didn't address OP's point because, frankly, I didn't care. I have no opinion about whatever shit he's saying about how the guy from TP that teaches you all the sword techniques is actually the MM Link. My only other post ITT (besides saying I didn't think OP was worthy of a response, and refuting the accusation of samefagging) was >>9708478

>> No.9708926

>>9707167
Link was not done growing. Men continue to grow into their 20s.

>> No.9708927

>>9708727
>Link's Awakening was a sequel to LttP
So they were probably thinking about ALLTP when they made it..? Do that a few times and you have a timeline
>LONG before anyone was debating a timeline.
People are debating a timeline since Zelda 2
>Oracles were made by Capcom and not Nintendo at all
Directed, written, planned and supervised by Fujibayashi and other Nintendo people

>> No.9708929

>>9708926
This. Link could just have gigantism. Timeline deniers btfo

>> No.9708961

>>9708698
Most of the handheld games don't have any explicit references to a grander timeline. They're just Zelda adventures that happen in a vacuum. That's clearly how they were conceived and meant to be taken, with the exception of the DS games which are pretty explicit follow-ups to Wind Waker.
>Why such hard feelings when "your" timeline agrees with the official one?
It's simply bullshit. The Hyrule Historia was a marketing gimmick to publicise the release of Skyward Sword. You can tell they tasked someone to find a place for games like Four Swords Adventures, which obviously didn't really fit anywhere because they weren't designed to. I don't see the point of playing pretend like this. I don't see the point of a timeline with three branches just so everything can "fit". It's silly.

>> No.9708991

>>9708961
>Most of the handheld games don't have any explicit references to a grander timeline.
Constant meta-references aren't a requirement to be part of a timeline but that there aren't huge incongruities. Nintendo did that well, you agree that most games are connected and no one is hurt, so not sure what your big hang-up is other than your typical shitposting in Zelda threads
>It's simply bullshit.
Nah

>> No.9708992

>>9707193
Take the bad ending of Minish Cap and use that as a branching off point.
>Four Swords
>Four Swords Adventures
>The entirety of the Decline timeline
Place Breath of the Wild AFTER Twilight Princess.

>> No.9708995

>>9708929
Or TP Link is a manlet and OoT Link is 6ft whatever.

>> No.9709008

>>9708961
>Most of the handheld games don't have any explicit references to a grander timeline.
which are you referring to? the oracle games end with a shot of link's raft from LA and THE END text. Links awakening is a direct sequel to ALTTP. Minish Cap has a clear place in the timeline, ALBW has a clear place in the timeline, and the DS games are directly wind waker sequels.

The handheld games are actually the only zelda games that have explicit references to the others.

>> No.9709009

>>9707207
Ignoring the apocalyptic flood, there could easily be something shoehorned between PH and ST. Malladus can't be resurrected if he isn't defeated in the first place.

>> No.9709013

>>9708991
Some games in the series have real connectivity, but then there's something like Link's Awakening which just doesn't, and I don't see why we need to believe it does. It's a Zelda adventure starring a generic version of Link which could be the guy from Zelda 1 or the guy from ALttP, or a different guy altogether.

OOT is straight up the backstory to ALttP. That's a straight line of narrative. That's what I'm saying.

>> No.9709021

>>9709008
>he oracle games end with a shot of link's raft from LA and THE END text. Links awakening is a direct sequel to ALTTP
So how the fuck does that work? Is LA a sequel to ALttP or the Oracle duology?

>> No.9709023
File: 37 KB, 960x450, badman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709023

>>9708961
>You can tell they tasked someone to find a place for games like Four Swords Adventures, which obviously didn't really fit anywhere because they weren't designed to.
Be honest. Are you saying it because >>9707591 said so? I'm not saying you're wrong but how do you know that guy's not wrong? Keep your eyes on your own work.

>> No.9709034

>>9709023
I'm saying it because I played the Four Swords games when they came out, and they're clearly just supposed to be fun party games that mash up concepts from the Zelda universe. You're not supposed to think too hard about some of this shit. Where does it sit in the timeline? It doesn't. Get over it.

>> No.9709042
File: 373 KB, 1125x1112, 1677796483464666.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709042

>>9708724
You can do badass things while pooping your pants.

>> No.9709045
File: 1.32 MB, 426x240, tenor.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709045

>>9709021
Both. LA is a sequel to ALttP but it's a sequel to the Oracles too if you want to be that persnickety. Nintendo changed the online timeline because the Oracles from ALBW didn't match the Oracle of Ages Zoras.
>so are the Oracle duology sequels to ALttP or not
you're going to say,

And the answer is you're not supposed to think about it this hard. Oracle games are set in another universe. It doesn't matter where they're set. They could be direct sequels to BotW for crying out loud.

>> No.9709048

>>9707749
>secret path to the forest in goron village
>darunia jams out to saria's song
>the sheer amount of stonework in the forest temple
gorons and kokiri absolutely interact behind the scenes

>> No.9709052

>>9709045
Sounds like you're saying these games don't fit into a timeline, which is what I'm saying.

>> No.9709060

>>9709013
>starring a generic version of Link which could be the guy from Zelda 1 or the guy from ALttP, or a different guy altogether.
Cool thing the timeline exists so now we know for sure

>> No.9709070

>>9709021
>>9709052
Links awakening is a sequel to LTTP, and then when they made the oracle games they set those in between LTTP and LA. if you think that the idea of releasing a game set before or after other games means that they don't fit into a timeline, i have to imagine the idea of a "prequel" just melts your brain. did you also not understand that ocarina explained ganon's origins even though it released after LTTP?

>> No.9709073

>>9709052
>Sounds like you're saying these games don't fit into a timeline
Most of them do and everyone with a brain agrees they do. It's not normal or healthy how much it bothers you that Nintendo also added the not so obvious ones and made changes over the years. And if you Google for a minute you will indeed find proof that Nintendo always talked about a timeline, even if said changes were made

What a weird thing to complain about and derail threads over, not to mention spend your evening on

>> No.9709074

>>9709060
Nintendo can decide any old bullshit is the "official timeline". It's their franchise. I refuse to believe all of these answers were sitting in a secret document the whole time though. Especially when half of it doesn't fit.
Why is Epona referenced in the opening of the Oracle games, when Epona is OOT Link's horse, and ALttP Link doesn't have a horse?

>> No.9709076

>>9709074
>I refuse to believe all of these answers were sitting in a secret document the whole time though.
Only you care because you have Zelda derangement syndrome
>Why is Epona referenced in the opening of the Oracle games, when Epona is OOT Link's horse, and ALttP Link doesn't have a horse?
See >>9707386

>> No.9709083

>>9707386
why is Tingle the same

>> No.9709087
File: 26 KB, 759x500, badman2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709087

>>9709052
The thing is you're saying no handheld Zeldas (like >>9708727) count on the timeline when you know, then, that Four Swords (here you said "games," >>9709034 plural) and the ALttP tie-in event prove you wrong. So you know that Four Swords is one timeline and that's connected to Twilight Princess. Ergo it doesn't make sense that you impugn LA for being a handheld sequel to ALttP when it feeds into it the same.

>> No.9709089

>Nintendo telling Capcom in 2001 that their games are set in the "Link Dies" timeline, and it's very important that they be an interquel that sits perfectly in between ALttP and LA
>people think this is a thing that happened

>> No.9709093
File: 167 KB, 1600x1200, badmanangry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709093

>>9709070
>>9709073
>>9709076
Stay out of this Robins. Your guy's power level is too low to take part in this discourse. This guy is mine.

>> No.9709094

>>9709076
Some people get OCD and have to connect all the dots when a big series' entries don't branch off into their own universe.

>> No.9709095

>>9709087
I don't believe that Four Swords were ever taken seriously as canon games internally by Nintendo. They can say it, but I don't believe them.

>> No.9709103

>>9709095
>They can say it
When did they say they always considered it a serious chapter? You're so upset and make so many posts about it, surely it must have happened

>> No.9709108

>>9709103
Like I said, they can say it, but they didn't. It was a pack in gimmick for ALttP on the GBA.
I like the game, but come on. This is like saying Mario's Cement Factory is an important event in the Mario timeline.

>> No.9709109 [DELETED] 
File: 36 KB, 1280x720, badmansadface.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709109

>>9709095
I see. So you didn't play the Four Swords dungeon which explains how FSA Ganon broke out of his imprisonment and has you fight Shadow Link. Me neither. But you don't see me be whiney, putting my fingers in my ears and going "LA-LA-LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

>> No.9709112

>>9709109
I played the game 20 years ago when it came out, and I remember throwing bombs at my friends. That's my answer.

>> No.9709115

>>9709108
So you cry about things that didn't happen for hours

>> No.9709118

>>9708909
Lol I make one comment are you start losing it. See >>9708842

>> No.9709121

>>9709115
I've been here like 20 minutes.

>> No.9709126

>>9709121
I think you're shitposting and samefagging in this thread for hours, though. It's a rather slow board

>> No.9709136

Four Swords Adventures is the true prequel to A Link to the Past. It is also the first appearance of Ganon or Ganondorf in that particular timeline. It is essentially an alternate OoT branching off the bad ending of Minish Cap. OoT

>> No.9709137

>>9709126
>I think
Exactly -- THINK, now KNOW.

>> No.9709183
File: 2.00 MB, 1033x2041, 9267556026_b231e00859_o.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9709183

What is his lore? Why did he do it?

>> No.9709217

>>9707193
Instead Minish Cap suppose to be the origin of the green hat? Doesn't that kinda contradict the timeline more than anything?

>> No.9709529

>>9709217
Phrygian caps don't really need a special explanation. Guess you can see both MC or SS as its origin if you want but it's probably just chalked up to divine intervention until Ocarina Link set the trend.

>> No.9709659

>>9709529
Both MC and SS were also made by the same guy so he knew what he was doing and they probably just didn't want a shitty Game Boy Zelda to be the definitive origin of.... anything

>> No.9709735

>>9709009
True but wasn't Malladus some ancient demon? I don't remember

>> No.9709947

Monsters are supposed to be tall and big. I don't think there's anything more than that
>>9707178
there's a glitch to have him anywhere, and yeah, he's huge

>> No.9709957

>>9708724
Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.
TP Link is just being edgy.

>> No.9709997

>>9707167
It's funny when autists put more thought into shit like this than the devs themselves. Nobody who designed this guy put any reasoning like that into it. Doesn't mean he cant still be OoT Link, it's just not everything needs to follow stupid autistic details like you think it does.

>> No.9710438

>>9709997
>It's funny when autists put more thought into shit like this than the devs themselves.
True it's fun

>> No.9710445

>>9709112
Why was my Bat-post deleted? Mods are little bitches.

>> No.9710465

>>9709217
>>9709529
>>9709659
If you want to get autistic about it you could theorize that the wind tribe and picoori knew/know the SS sky people. Picori ascended from the sky and the wind people moved there. The light force is also a thing in SS and MC and MC explains why there's rupees and other stuff in the grass

>> No.9710489

I like this thread. I'm going to dig up my old hyrule historia.

>> No.9710496

>>9707620
They do have a timline about him not being there because of time travel.

>> No.9710514

>>9709048
That's great. I really never thought about that. Especially the part about the stone work.

>> No.9710529

>>9707721
Twilight Princess isn't really that story heavy. It's long as shit but it's fundamentally not that different than ALTTP or Link's Awakening, which despite what people remember, intermittently interrupt you with pages of lore from each game's exposition NPCs. The fact that Nintendo was bullied into constructing a timeline at all is the problem. The games just aren't designed to be consistent with each other so trying to jam them in sideways makes it feel like a shitty epic as opposed to a fairy tale.

>> No.9710545

>>9708713
She's also apparently a cartoon mouse

>> No.9710554

>>9708995
>OoT Link is 6ft
He's not

>> No.9710558

>>9708961
Sure thing troon

>> No.9710568

>>9710529
>Twilight Princess isn't really that story heavy. It's long as shit but it's fundamentally not that different than ALTTP or Link's Awakening, which despite what people remember, intermittently interrupt you with pages of lore from each game's exposition NPCs.
I'm sorry, but that's just untrue. LA and ALttP will interrupt you for a second every few hours. TP will interrupt you for a minutes every half hour for the first half. There is a big difference in how these narratives play out. A story stopping to provide brief context is not inherently a bad thing, but it becomes a serious issue in a game like TP where it's clear the devs don't trust you to explore and engage with the world on your own terms.

I wouldn't say Nintendo was bullied into releasing a timeline either. If anything, it's weird a long running series like Zelda never had a lore book. The "timeline" really just means "continuity" when it comes down to it

>> No.9710579

>>9710568
Dumb esl poster

>> No.9710624

>>9707167
zeldor autism is the cringiest fuckin shit
I bet you guys are in your mid 40s and still trying to argue over fanwank homofiction

>> No.9710678

>>9707415
Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask form a narrative acting as reflection of the themes in Peter Pan and various other children's stories among other inspirations.
Link is ostensibly based on Peter Pan's design and embarks on a grand adventure, but it is one he is ultimately taken out of. He is the anti-Peter Pan, someone who grew up too soon, and after the adventure is over he's made to return to where it truly began, at the meeting with Princess Zelda. He can't erase the death of his father (the Deku Tree), but he can spot the liars in this world (Ganon) having grown up already. But, he is told to live out his childhood.

Majora's Mask is the epilogue to this idea. It's a world trapped eternally in the climax of the story, Link shows up to solve issues, but while he carries their spirits with him through the masks, he can't save those who have already walked his path and died, nor can he solve every problem, and he won't be remembered even if he did. The actions of Ocarina of Time he took are ultimately reframed as those of the selfless hero who sacrificed his glorious victory for a return to childhood, so Majora's Mask shows this selfless hero. He can't do everything, but he can try and he can carry those feelings with him.

It's why the reward for the mask quest is the Fierce Deity mask. Link's actions will eventually no longer be his own, but those of a legendary hero, a deity of righteous anger against those like Ganon. He turns in all the suffering of Termina for this reward, and uses it to exact just onto Majora.

I worded this horribly and rambled a lot, but OoT->MM->WW->TP have some legitimate narrative and thematic throughlines unlike the rest of the series

>> No.9710704

>>9710678
Really well said. The thematic throughline from OoT to MM to TWW and finally TP is great, though I think Twilight Princess doesn't work as well as the first three.

>> No.9710709

>>9710704
TP wasn't initially intended is the thing, but it forms a nice branch with the Hero's Shade, and it mixed with WW allows for two different but similar iterations of Ganon to take center stage.

>> No.9710834

>>9710568
ALTTP gives you a story spiel after almost every dungeon. Yes, you can mash through it but considering how short the game is there's a pretty substantial amount of dialogue and it's pretty much entirely about the lore. That's not really a bad thing, mind you. We shouldn't forget that before OoT there wasn't any of this multiple heroes shit. ALTTP was explicitly a prequel that set up the conflict of Zelda 1 and 2.

>> No.9710852

>>9710704
There being a throughline between games is itself annoying because the games are better off being self contained. Before Hyrule Historia there was an offbeat fan theory that in "reality" there was a Link, a Zelda, and a Ganon, and they were key players in a battle for the Triforce. And each game is a different telling of those same events because the facts are lost to history and so each storyteller has to fill in the gaps. In other words it's the legend of Zelda.

>> No.9710867

>>9710624
>zeldor autism is the cringiest fuckin shit
Getting triggered by people talking about games they like is and always will be more cringy, especially when you pretend it's your first post in the thread but you probably already made 20

>> No.9710906

>>9708713
Sex

>> No.9710925

>>9707313
Careful anon, i got warned for posting le not retro despite not being the context of my post being about Link's Awakening.

>> No.9710939

>>9710496
Yeah, that's the adult timeline because he defeated Ganon and then went back to being a kid so no one was around to stop Ganon when he broke out and then Hyrule got flooded.

There's ANOTHER abandoned timeline, however. The original one. The one where child Link takes the Master Sword and then disappears forever, so he's not around to stop Ganon at any point and not only does the Sealing War have to happen, but a whole new Master Sword has to be forged, which is the backstory for LttP.

To review, there are 3 timelines that I see:
>Timeline 1: Child Link goes on a quest, gets the Master Sword, wakes up 7 years later, and defeats Ganon.
>Timeline 2: Adult Link is sent back in time as a child to stop Ganondorf before he ever fucks over Hyrule.
>Timeline 3: Child Link gets the Master Sword, then vanishes forever.

The reason for Timeline 3 is the one time Link goes back to the past and makes a change, which means the timeline he started on is one he can never return to, so as far as the people of that timeline are concerned, Ganondorf broke into the Sacred Realm and then the Hero and Master Sword were nowhere to be seen ever again.

All that said, it's MUCH simpler to just say, "Remember when you died at least once? That's canon," and leave it at that. But I prefer the more in-depth time travel explanation because it even explains why LttP talks about the Master Sword being forged during the Sealing War, since OoT Link essentially stole the Master Sword from that timeline.

>> No.9710953

>>9707193
>Vaati is alive and sealed in any timeline that isn't the Child era
>so much they added a bonus dungeon in the GBA port to tribute that, but didn't just throw Vaati in there.

>> No.9710972

>>9710953
That's literally where Vaati comes from though. Minish Cap was a later game.

>> No.9710992
File: 206 KB, 494x855, OoT3D_Dark_Link_Model.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9710992

>>9710972
I know, I'm just saying that it was a miss opportunity to throw Vaati into ALttP the time he was made and relevant.
Instead we just have rehashed fights for a boss rush and 4 Shadow Links as a bonus in the GBA port.

>> No.9710996

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KNrbD4Igr38&feature=shares

>> No.9711021

>>9707193
That's not the current timeline, they reworked it a bit

>> No.9711025
File: 32 KB, 650x366, rm7wkmgbaaaa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9711025

>>9707537
LoZ is literally a LotR game

>> No.9711028
File: 151 KB, 1280x720, easterlings.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9711028

>>9711025

>> No.9711158

>>9707167
I remember 00s theories about the timeline splitting from oot into the toon and realistic timelines with some batshit explanation attached but I've never seen it brought up after the canon timeline was made so maybe it wasn't that popular or I'm misremembering.

>> No.9711171

>>9710852
>there was a Link, a Zelda, and a Ganon, and they were key players in a battle for the Triforce
and many versions throw in a tingle, dampe, or beetle to lighten it up

>> No.9711237

>>9711171
>and many versions throw in a tingle, dampe, or beetle to lighten it up
What I find funny about the timeline and all the reincarnation stuff is the implications that characters like Dampe, Beedle, & Tingle also get reincarnated, as if their role in everything is just as crucial to the story as Link, Zelda, & Ganon. I guess that makes sense for characters like Impa & the Old Man, but then you throw in guys like Big Goron & the Post-Man and you start to wonder who the goddess deemed key players to get reincarnated when Ganon begins to surface again.

>> No.9711261

Timeline lore autism is so fucking stupid. Why can't you autismos just enjoy things for what they are? Why does everything have to fit together into some autistic box when it's blatantly obvious none of the people involved in the creation of any of these games gave this shit even a moment's thought?

>> No.9711263

>>9711261
Best post.

>> No.9711273

>>9711261
because the art director put the OOT sages on stained glass in WW

>> No.9711283

>>9707178
There is a hack that scales deity back to oot adult link size and makes him usable anywhere

>> No.9711327

>>9711273
Wind Waker can barely go two seconds without having someone say "the Hero of Time"

>> No.9711369

>>9710852
I've always hated this theory, to be honest. Hyrule's history is the most interesting thing about the series' story.

>> No.9711402

>>9711263
>>9711261
Fuck off insectoid brain bitches

>> No.9711407

>>9711261
I don't care too much for the timeline and I know it wasn't 100% mapped out (though Nintendo never pretended it was) but posts like yours in EVERY thread talking about Zelda lore or the timeline are always a million times more cringe

Like wtf is wrong with you caring this much what other people care about

>inb4 why do you care why I care
I care because you shit on our carpet

>> No.9711443

>>9711261
The idea of a timeline connecting all the games, but there's very clearly games that reference each other more deeply than just a similar looking Link.
>Majora's Mask is a literal sequel to OoT (same goes for Zelda 2 to Zelda 1)
>Wing Waker and Twilight Princess both directly reference OoT with Twilight Princess even having OoT's Link just show up in the game
>Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are extensions to Wind Waker
>Skyward Sword sets itself up as the prelude to all of this
etc etc
I think trying to link in the FC and SFC games, Link's Awakening, Oracles, etc. was a mistake when they're clearly separate entities. But, then again, the official timeline was just made to sell books and now it exists to trick people into thinking you should get NSO to get the "full Zelda experience".

>> No.9712550

After the events of Twilight Princess, the Hero's Shade was finally able to pass on and his spirit was sent back to the Adult Timeline, to be reincarnated into Wind Waker Link.

>> No.9712554

>>9711443
Sounds right
>Sir, nobody's buying that shitty Triforce Heroes game
>Uhhhh quick say that shit's part of the "timeline", suckers will rush out to buy it because it's "canon" now!

>> No.9712563

>>9711402
I see you are upset that there is no cohesive way to tie all of the games in and there was never meant to be apart from the direct sequels.
Your inability to argue or do anything other than low level insults just reinforces the obvious autism diagnosis.
Praise triforce.

>> No.9713173

The whole Ganondorf prison saga in TP was a great background story

>> No.9714963

>>9712554
Meds

>> No.9715330
File: 591 KB, 315x240, 121950239235.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9715330

Why do some people get so mad about video games?

>> No.9715365

>>9715330
A mixture of autism and poor socialization from spending an entire lifetime online.