/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9673610]

Was texture filtering a step forward?

[Anonymous No.9673618]

Yes.

[Anonymous No.9673623]

>>9673610
yes

[Anonymous No.9673630]

>>9673610
Yes. MGS2 managed to look clean as fuck while maintaining 60 FPS by doing a lot of filter trickery.

[Anonymous No.9673634]

Depends on the type of surface and texture fidelity possible on the machine, but generally yes. Any sort of grand scale terrain looks like ass unfiltered, and a blurry texture at least gives some impression of vastness. Large pixels stretched out over huge surfaces just looks glitchy and weird. Many games with low res textures or otherwise not designed with bilinear/3point in mind tend to look a bit assy when you force filtering, though. Low res brick textures or anything with sharp edges implying depth, looks like shit soup filtered. When your textures get good enough though, it smooths things out nicely.

[Anonymous No.9673642]

Never on 2D UI/HUD elements.

[Anonymous No.9673720]

Unequivocally yes. The only games where unfiltered textures are good are those where the texels line up perfectly with texture maps like Quake 1.

[Anonymous No.9674012]

As long as blurring was kept to an absolute minimum (or rather not at all)

[Anonymous No.9674048]

>>9673610
If applied right, sure.

[Anonymous No.9674310]

> "I'm here to tell you that the Chad64 chipset uses TLMMI, to produce the smoothest, cleanest and most natural looking real-time 3D textures. You won't see any of those eye gouging big square pixels in our hardware."

https://youtu.be/eKlbx5niBu8

[Anonymous No.9674497]

>>9673610
No, it was the start of the never ending era of eternal Vaseline. Games look way better without texture filtering.

[Anonymous No.9674530]

>>9674497
>Games look way better without texture filtering.
t. hipster retard
games look better with trilinear and anisotropic filtering unless you like any tile patterns in games to look like a sea of pixels when not looking at it head on

[Anonymous No.9674853]

>>9673610
Obviously yes. The PS1 was a stain on graphics evolution and controls with its lack of a stick on release

[Anonymous No.9675053]

>>9674853
PS1 has aged far better than newer consoles.

[Anonymous No.9675150]

>>9674497
You're thinking of bilinear filtering, which always looked like muddy arse, but those problems went away with trilinear and anisotrophic filters.

[Anonymous No.9675546]

I don’t know what any of the terms in here mean- but mgs2 has always been one of my favorite looking games to just admire and look at things in. Idk what it is. Probably have played through it 5 times.

[Anonymous No.9675550]

>>9673642
And sprite-based games like Doom. When you apply texture filtering in Doom sourceports, the game goes straight into "lookin' good" territory.

[Anonymous No.9675709]

>>9674853
Sore.

[Anonymous No.9675825]

>>9673618
Ok, but

[Anonymous No.9675886]

>>9674853
> lack of a stick on release
Sony literally fucking invented the dualshock "modern controller" lol. IT DIDN'T FUCKING EXIST YET. this is why the 80s / 90s / early aughts were so exciting, shit was honestly getting better. muh new console wasn't just "ooo wow these reflections are slightly reflectier", it was leaps and bounds ahead of the last one.
Fun fact: the first FPS with dual stick "modern" controls was criticized and not well received lol:
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/alien-resurrection-review/1900-2637344/%22/
> The game's control setup is its most terrifying element. The left analog stick moves you forward, back, and strafes right and left, while the right analog stick turns you and can be used to look up and down. Too often, you'll turn to face a foe and find that your weapon is aimed at the floor or ceiling while the alien gleefully hacks away at your midsection.

[Anonymous No.9675906]

>>9675825
>see this PS2 game can look like a PS1 game
not a very good argument

[Anonymous No.9675921]

It looks vastly better on games intended for it and with textures over a certain resolution. Of course it's gonna look like shit if you filter PSX textures/go for unfiltered textures in an N64 game.

[Anonymous No.9675953]

>>9675886
>the first FPS with dual stick "modern" controls was
Goldeneye

[Anonymous No.9675960]

>>9675953
fair enough. or should i say ....Rare enough ahahahahhhhhahahahhh
holding 2 controllers was always jank af, but yeah, good point.

[Anonymous No.9675979]

>>9673610
Texture filtering only started looking good once textures got high-res enough in the 00s. In 90s games where the textures are like 128 pixels max (on PC, lower on consoles), it looks horrible because you can obviously see the pixels, just smudged.
The better looking option in the 90s were detail textures. That's the overlay on textures you see in Unreal that makes them look photorealistic regardless of what distance you look from.
I doubt that was used or possible on consoles though, overlaying extra textures on every surface and dynamically scaling them.
Picrel is Soldier Of Fortune, theres detail textures on all the geometry except the pixel art tool rack.

[Anonymous No.9676376]

>>9674310

the hype was above the clouds.

[Anonymous No.9676584]

>>9676376
>the hype was above the clouds.

None of those early demo's were bullshit though, and were based on real prototypes SGI had. Though the final hardware wasn't as powerful as the early demo's because of Nintendo cutting costs. Small texture cache, for one. I would say that video is late 1994 at the earliest, because the Doom demo they showcase is Doom for the 32x. Which was released in November 1994. It's possible that the video could be Nov or Dec 1994. Or possibly early 1995. Back then, that hardware did look pretty hot.

[Anonymous No.9676587]

>>9675953
Modern controls don't use 2 controllers and left stick to look.

[Anonymous No.9676596]

>>9673610
Please explain, me dumb.

[Anonymous No.9676840]

>>9673618
Deck-A
Crew's Quarters
HOME

At least it was till Ocelot fucked it up

[Anonymous No.9676863]

>>9675546
It's just an overall great game. I recently replayed it for the umpteenth time and decided to punch solidus to death, it was great kek

[Anonymous No.9677409]

Half life 1 looks better unfiltered, it even has more animations on stuff like water in software mode.

>>9675979
N64 developers used it as excuse for low quality textures. The super off road game on n64 has the blurriest texture for the road I've seen.

[Anonymous No.9677763]

>>9677409
it doesn't and the water could be replicated with a shader with hardware acceleration if valve gave a fuck

[Anonymous No.9678019]

>>9677763
>could be
but isn't
software mode looks better

[Anonymous No.9678515]

>>9675953
The N64 doesn't have dual analog sticks you blithering knuckle dragging son of a whore.

[Anonymous No.9678529]

>>9675953
Alien Resurrection iirc.

[Anonymous No.9678530]

>>9678515
And yet Goldeneye was still the first game to support dual analog sticks despite this, that's just how forward thinking it was.

[Anonymous No.9678538]

>>9678530
False, it was simply the first on the N64.

[Anonymous No.9678539]

>>9678515

[Anonymous No.9678558]

>>9678538
As opposed to?

[Anonymous No.9678572]

>>9678558
Any number of games on the PS1 which support the analog flight stick and by extension, the playstation dual analog controller.

[Anonymous No.9678576]

>>9674310
I think the massive technological leaps between hardware generations of the 90's will never be matched again, that was such a fun time to be a kid.

[Anonymous No.9678579]

>>9678572
>Switches the subject form FPS to flight sims

[Anonymous No.9678580]

>>9678579
>And yet Goldeneye was still the first game to support dual analog sticks

[Anonymous No.9678597]

>>9676863
have you seen the videos on youtube where people document the weird shit in the game? there are hours of bizarre things you can find and try. my original xbox doesnt read discs anymore which sucks because id play it again after reading this thread.

[Anonymous No.9679957]

>>9678597
There still isn't any definitive list of secrets, easter eggs, and other hidden features as far as I know. Too daunting of a task I imagine.

[Anonymous No.9681732]

>>9678597
>my original xbox doesnt read discs anymore
Install CFW so you can play it from the hard drive.

[Anonymous No.9681754]

>>9681732
that does require booting a disc first, unless you use a mod chip

[Anonymous No.9681769]

>>9678576
I hope we're on the verge of another big wave like that with AI or VR. VR is basically just tech demos now but at this point all it needs is 1 publisher being committed to it and pumping out major releases. And just like in the 90s it wouldn't be just about visual improvements to VR, it would be about creating entire new genres of games and establishing gameplay conventions that last for decades.

[Anonymous No.9681780]

>>9673610
Not on PS2. Too low-res, both PS2 and N64 have ass iq.
>>9673630
It looks clean as fuck by being basically gouraud shaded lol. Granted it’s impressive how they didn’t fight the hardware. Same for MGS3, which almost looks like a camo pattern itself in terms of how they accommodate the filter.

[Anonymous No.9681882]

>>9673610
No I always hated it.

[Anonymous No.9681891]

>>9675906
You sound like a /mu/tard that hates on retroelectro because it's done on old equipment.

[Anonymous No.9681901]

>>9681882
Me on the left.

[Anonymous No.9681927]

>>9681882
bilinear looks deseased, like the texture has pimples

[Anonymous No.9681998]

>>9673610
At least assets on filtered engines are designed with filtering in mind, unlike claims that all pixel art designers always had HRT TVs on their mind instead of, you know, the computer monitors they used (no not the same thing).

[Anonymous No.9682008]

>>9681998
Why not both

[Anonymous No.9682023]

>>9675546
Try Document of MGS2 if you haven't already, you can noclip around all the maps.

[Anonymous No.9682057]

>>9673610
MGS2's artists were still drawing textures as if they were making MGS1, depended a lot on pixel precision, so this looks good without texture filtering.

[Anonymous No.9682075]

>>9682057
Yes and no. All that shading is clearly meant to be blended. Many fine details are using their established sprite art experience.

[Anonymous No.9682082]

>>9682008
Because not everyone did both, and among those like picrel, they were checking to make sure their computer monitor work wasn't mangled too badly by an HRT.

[Anonymous No.9682148]

>>9682057
It does have a very artificial, digital look compared to 3

[Anonymous No.9682217]

>>9682148
3 is when they mostly moved away from pixel precise textures, here the textures are pretty organic and you should absolutely not leave it unfiltered with visible texels, HUD aside.

[Anonymous No.9682224]

>>9675886
>Fun fact: the first FPS with dual stick "modern" controls was criticized and not well received lol:

Medal of Honor had it first, stop being a stupid sheep repeating incomplete information you misunderstand

[Anonymous No.9682240]

>>9678576
what a batshit insane controller

[Anonymous No.9682373]

>>9682240
Dope image though. I used to pretend my various console controllers were starfighters.

[Anonymous No.9682443]

>>9682373
It always looked like a crown to me

[Anonymous No.9682462]

>>9682443
i think a kamen rider designed around n64 would totally work

[Anonymous No.9683846]

>>9682075
Yeah it was an artstyle thing for MGS2, not every game could use a clean, industrial/office like setting that lent itself so well to blocky polygons and unfiltered textures. and even then, they went further by making hexes a motif and giving everyone a slightly anime character design for simple, sharp facial features and costumes. They didn't stop at MGS2 though. It's still there in MGSV if you look closely enough at the models.

[Anonymous No.9683847]

>>9678539
youre supposed to hold 2 controllers at once?

[Anonymous No.9683860]

>>9683847
Yes, it was rad and the expected playstyle among my friends.

[Anonymous No.9684124]

>>9683847
Don't you have 6 hands?

[Anonymous No.9684135]

>>9683847
No, it's a 2 player option
One is a spotter the other's a sniper

[Anonymous No.9684221]

>>9676584
>Small texture cache
That was Nintendo's doing? Holy shit what a mistake. The difference between 32x32 and 64x64 textures is HUGE. It goes from "insanely blurry" to "quite decent". But this would have required tripling it to 12 KB.

[Anonymous No.9684863]

They really went nuts with all the little details, love all these fakey shadows and reflections.

[Anonymous No.9684872]

>hatch on tiled floor
>they just drew the outline with polys above the floor so it looks like the hatch has been tiled to match the floor

soul, SOUL

[Anonymous No.9684880]

>>9684863
Surely there was a way to just bake lights at that point, the way you do today. Probably just set the lights up, clicked a button and baked shadows in-engine.
Also nobody ever talks about how amazing textures in all MGS games are. I think that's the main visual appeal of the series, every texture is very detailed, and those details are interesting to examine rather than just random and it all fits into the world around it perfectly. Nobody appreciates well made textures...

[Anonymous No.9684889]

>>9681927
Are there like 3 different implementations of billinear filtering? Like N64's 3 point texel filter looks different than the PS2's way of filtering.PS2 could also do selective smoothing while Voodoo on PC filters everything, including ui elements.

[Anonymous No.9684898]

>>9684872
It's a decal and used very often in PS2 games. It all became possible thanks to z-sorting. Another example would be bullet holes.

[Anonymous No.9684907]

>>9684880
Probably not enough memory on PS2 to have level-wide lightmaps at the same quality as >>9684863.

[Anonymous No.9684940]

>>9684880
Right on, there's a level of craftsmanship to it that's just without parallel.

[Anonymous No.9684952]

>>9674310
why does have better anti-ailising than console games do today?

[Anonymous No.9684972]

>>9684952
Because it's a compressed, 240p youtube upload of a tape from the 90s

[Anonymous No.9685017]

>>9681769
Half Life Alyx was literally the game VR needed but unfortunately it doesn't seem to have made the kind of splash it really deserved to make

I went from hohum on VR to oh fuck this has so much potential with Alyx

[Anonymous No.9685026]

I fucking hate bout. Give me raw, unfiltered, integer scaled pixels. Or a nice CRT shader. But horrific bilinear texture filtering? Get the fuck out

[Anonymous No.9685029]

>>9685026
Blur*

[Anonymous No.9686986]

>>9684872
Amazing.

[Anonymous No.9688480]

>>9684972
not being realtime also helped I guess

[Anonymous No.9688704]

>>9678572
>analog flight stick
>dual analog
Ummm, no

[Anonymous No.9689223]

I dunno how this thread spun into dual analouge sticks. But for me, playing a lot of older PC games that required a keyboard and a mouse. I was always fine with digital movement. Using the yellow circle keys on the N64 pad honest seemed really good to me. I liked using it for FPS games. I really liked playing Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Turok, Quake 2, Duke Nukem 64, Doom 64 with this pad. I didn't mind using the Dreamcast pad either for FPS games. But the lack of buttons was a problem. Though devs did use the d-pad to compensate, which could work at times. The Dreamcast has analogue triggers. N64 had a nice amount of buttons. Though some devs also used the d-pad for extra functions.

[Anonymous No.9689225]

I dunno how this thread spun into dual analouge sticks. But for me, playing a lot of older PC games that required a keyboard and a mouse. I was always fine with digital movement. Using the yellow circle keys on the N64 pad honest seemed really good to me. I liked using it for FPS games. Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Turok, Quake 2, Duke Nukem 64, Doom 64 all played really well to me on the N64 pad. I feel like the N64 pad was really well suited for FPS type games. I didn't mind using the Dreamcast pad either for FPS games. But the lack of buttons was a problem. Though devs did use the d-pad to compensate, which could work at times. The Dreamcast has analogue triggers. N64 had a nice amount of buttons. Though some devs also used the d-pad for extra functions.