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/vr/ - Retro Games

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9664129 No.9664129 [Reply] [Original]

I wish Chrono Cross wasn't related to Chrono Trigger.

As its own thing, it would likely top the JRPG all-time charts, but as a sequel to CT it is just a failure.

>> No.9664149
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9664149

>>9664129

>> No.9664167

>>9664129
It sucked ass dude. I dropped after 5min.

Delete this shit thread

>> No.9664203

>>9664129
It can be a failure and the best JRPG at the same time. It is.

>> No.9664219

Chrono Cross is far more artistically impressive than Trigger. Trigger is more functionally well designed.

>> No.9664237

>>9664129
>As its own thing, it would likely top the JRPG all-time charts
Nah, no matter the context, it's a second-tier RPG. Still really good, but everything is a little off, from the art style, to the characters, to the plot.

>> No.9664239

>>9664237

I'd argue the opposite.

The setting, the plot progression, the characters, the music, the overall tone are all very memorable and unique.

>> No.9664278

>>9664239
I played it a few times and I don't have a ton of attachment to these characters. You have a gimmickly huge party who are literally stand-ins for one another with procedural accents. Hardly any of them have their own story arch.

The plot is mystery->mystery->mystery->asspull->the end.

It's all very polished, it's not offensive at all, but there are probably half a dozen RPGs I'd return to before it.

>the music
I never mentioned the music, obviously it's 10/10 because Mitsuda.

>> No.9664286

>>9664129
Then it would be Baiten Kaitos.

>> No.9664348

>>9664239
>The setting
>The music
Probably the claims of yours I come closest to agreeing with. The music is top notch and the setting isn't one of the best to me (tropical islands! medieval fantasy! odd collection of random crap like casino cruise, rock stars, and aliens because it's a kitchen sink too!) but it's still pretty nice.

>the characters
There are 45 playable characters. They are not all very memorable (many are just kinda there) nor are they even fully unique. The few NPCs (since nearly everyone gets recruited anyway) aren't much better, with most of them being pretty clear JRPG cliches. This doesn't make THEM bad - I prefer a lot of the NPCs to some of the PCs - but they're not an A+. The good ones average to Bs, add in the shittier PCs and we drop a full letter grade.

>overall tone
HUMANITY BAD BECAUSE THEY DESTROYED THE ENVIRONMENT. HUMANITY MUST BE BERATED FOR THEIR KILLING AND DEPREDATIONS THAT ARE ENTIRELY UNIQUE TO THEM. PREPARE TO BE YELLED AT BY FAIRIES FOR GENOCIDING THEM EVEN AS IT'S DWARVES DOING IT, BECAUSE ONLY HUMANS ARE MURDERERS DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

>plot progression
It's good until you become Lynx, then almost all sense of momentum is lost and you just kinda dick around until it's time to get your body back, and then every NPC decides it's time to recite a novel's worth of infodumping that could have been spaced out better through all the rest of the stuff.
Chrono Cross would be an average JRPG even if it weren't a sequel, and that's okay! Average is better than bad! Average things can be your personal favorite things because we all have different interests and it doesn't mean you have bad taste.
But it does mean it's kinda silly to insist that it's an all-time great when it has plenty of legitimate flaws that prevent other people with different - but still good - taste from calling it "top of all-time best".

>> No.9664407

>>9664239
Give us some examples instead of useless platitudes. Holy shit.

>> No.9664680

cross is kino but not ludo, simple as that
trigger is both (if you can stand a jrpg)

>> No.9664883

>>9664129
If only they had called it something other than Chrono Trigger II... Oh wait, they did.

>> No.9664890

If it came out on N64 you'd be saying it's the best RPG of all times.

>> No.9665235
File: 257 KB, 1024x768, chrono cross cast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9665235

>>9664407
As if your contribution to the thread is so detailed and great. I agree with >>9664239, never met someone who didn't like Cross's music at least.

>> No.9665276

>>9664348
I think the complaints about the playable characters reveals the value of actual NPCs. The Cross roster is what you'd get if the NPCs in Trigger joined you after their role in the story ended. Get the Jet Bike Key from Doan after the Guardian fight? Doan joins you. Found not guilty at the trial? Pierre joins you. Rescue Fritz? Fritz joins you. Ayla offers to rescue Azala? Azala joins you. Meet up with Alfador in the last village? Alfador joins you. Gaspar asks to join your team? Gaspar joins you.

This sounds fun on paper but since all these characters have served their purpose it means them becoming playable is when they're at their least interesting. Plus their skillsets overlap so there's little reason to use everyone.

>> No.9665285

>>9665276

I think collecting all the weird characters is a value and a reward unto itself, not to find some autistic "purpose" for them after they join.

>> No.9665296

>>9665285
Same, I've always liked games with giant casts. Finding a new character to join your party is one of the most satisfying things you can find in an RPG. Even if their skillsets overlap and there's really no need for that many characters, it's still fun playing around with party combinations and trying out their moves. Recruiting party members is a simple pleasure like collecting action figures as a kid. I wouldn't want every game to have it though, >>9665276 makes a good point about if you shoehorned it into CT.

>> No.9665336

>>9665285
It does create a pacing problem. Trigger's story is so lauded because every character's arc gets set up and then resolved alongside the main story. You can't do that when you have 45 characters. It results in a clear divide between "important" characters and everyone else. Fargo gets a lot more than Irenes. And then characters like Janice and Pip are just Pokemon to collect. Then you get characters like Razzly who have maybe 5 minutes of story relevance despite clearly being more interesting than that, leaving you with plot blue balls.

>> No.9666049

>>9665235
god damn that's a lot of candy-colored uglies

>> No.9667201

>>9664129
So don't think of it as a sequel. Wow. So hard.

>> No.9667423

>>9665336

I think having a multitude of party members plays into CC's theme of reality being fractured/fragmented and everyone being adrift.

This is much different from the singular "let's get it done" drive of CT where it made sense to stick with a tighter group of characters.

>> No.9667473
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9667473

Cross is the best sequel a game could hope to get, straight up improvement in every department and it challenges the actions of its predecessor instead of being a shit-ass rehash. It's for those who dare, not losers stuck in the past.

>> No.9667496

>>9667423
I think it would have helped if the game were shorter. A 15-20 hour RPG like CT was could justify a bunch of interchangeable characters with their own level 7 element side quests since it would be highly replayable. But at 30ish hours its a long time to ask people to play over and over again. Especially since the bulk of the game is so directionless. The entire plot is dumped on you in the last few hours. The game's main ending is also really unsatisfying.