/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9640670]

Explain to me what causes people to specifically rate Mega Man 2 lower than the other classic games. Is it the easy modo in the international versions tricking people? Boobeam Trap being a massive casual filter despite being so late into the game? I mean, it is one of the best selling games in the franchise.

[Anonymous No.9640673]

>>9640670
I like it for its simplicity just like 1 but all of the games that followed improved on it except 7 and 8 maybe which are at least as good

[Anonymous No.9640674]

these are overcorrecting ratings because of its heavy mainstream exposure over the other NES titles
/thread

[Anonymous No.9640679]

>>9640670
It's arguably the franchise's high point so contrarianism forces them to shit on it. Especially if they're fan of the shitload of games that followed.

[Anonymous No.9640704]

It's only considered the best of the originals cause it has an easy mode for journalists to play. They keep coming here to explain why the other 5 suck which puts people off of the game's journalist-approved fanbase.

[Anonymous No.9640716]

>>9640670
>Explain to me what causes people to specifically rate Mega Man 2 lower than the other classic games.
contrarianism (hating whats popular by default) along with ego making insecure people prefer harder (worse) games purely because they are harder

[Anonymous No.9640738]

>>9640670
Level design sucks dick, weapons are unbalanced, robot masters are unimpressive by current rockman standards and graphics are worse than any of the famicon sequels. Tell me what's actually good about it besides music and decent presentation (at the time of release).

[Anonymous No.9640817]

>>9640670
I just don't think it's as good as most of the games that followed. Any difficulty this game has comes either from sheer jank or cheap bs that can be cheesed. I've beaten it multiple times when I was a kid, and even in difficult mode it can still be cheesed with the metal blade. The level design is just okay, later entries do that better.
Regardless of opinions on the game's design, surely we can all agree that the soundtrack is still top tier.

[Anonymous No.9640859]

>>9640817
>Any difficulty this game has comes either from sheer jank or cheap bs that can be cheesed.
>and even in difficult mode it can still be cheesed with the metal blade
So this is the kind of "person" that dislikes MM2, huh.

[Anonymous No.9640938]

>>9640716
It's not even the easiest one, lmao.

[Anonymous No.9640986]

>>9640859
What is your point?

[Anonymous No.9641042]

>>9640738
>Level design sucks dick
That's every Mega Man. Retro MM is rated high because it was one of the earliest games to have decent controls, great jumping, etc.

[Anonymous No.9641046]

>>9641042
>That's every Mega Man
No. Especially not 3, 4, 6, 9, X, and Zero 3.

[Anonymous No.9641080]

abababa my opinion the best and correct everyone in this thread is retarded holy fuck i hate this board

[Anonymous No.9641128]

>>9640670
Isn’t this the most widely beloved Mega Man

[Anonymous No.9641268]

>>9641128
Yes, by people who never played any other Mega Man.

[Anonymous No.9641425]

>>9641046
You just have shittaste/low standards. Please timestamp me a part with amazing level design in 3, X and Zero 3

[Anonymous No.9641452]

4 > 6 > 2 > 3 > 5 > 1

[Anonymous No.9641503]

>>9641425
How about you play the games yourself. I can tell with your attitude it won't matter what I send you.

[Anonymous No.9641513]

>>9641425
What are some games with great level design in your opinion?

[Anonymous No.9641540]

>>9640670
>>9640670
MM2 feels like a rough draft that needed another pass to really shine. As it is, it's kinda undercooked. I think there's a developer interview that says something similar to that as well.

Complaints usually boil down to:
>Stages rarely get a chance to use their foes and obstacles in clever ways, and is very plain for the most part. You can make a case for a number of MM1 stages having more intricate level design than what's in MM2.
>Most weapons are a pain to use, either due to heavy ammo drain or widespread enemy resistance/immunity. They should be one of the better sets on paper.
>Forced damage situations like Wily Machine's bouncing energy, Quickman jumping low + shooting boomerangs, that one Airman tornado pattern, the first bird in Crashman's stage that needs ungodly precise timing and positioning to safely switch ladders and dodge...

[Anonymous No.9641570]

Contrarianism. 2 is the classic standout so tryhards have to shit on it to feel better about themselves.

[Anonymous No.9641630]

>>9641570
Notice how the 2 fanboys' only answer to the criticisms is "you're a contrarian".

[Anonymous No.9641649]

>>9640670
It's peak sodabrain. All the normalfaggot Gen Xers sucked it off without having played any othet Mega Man game. It's better than 1 but no way in hell is it better than 3 and 4.

Yes, Boobeam is bad game design.
Yes, Metal Blade makes the game too easy/turns it into Metal Blade Man 2.
Yes, you will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.9641736]

Gonna third or whatever always hearing MM2 praised the most. The NES was before my time so why is it that MM2 seems to be the one everyone played and loved? 3-6 released in the 90's so was it just a case of people largely ditching the NES and thus being less familiar with later entries?

[Anonymous No.9641740]

>>9640670
Contrarianism

[Anonymous No.9641752]

>best robot master designs
>most memorable, iconic soundtrack
>best final boss
>best improvement over a predecessor title
>best end credits scene
>metal blade is one of the most fun weapons
ppl need to cry about it like who cares if it makes things easier? it's fun. if you don't like it so much

Mega Man 2 perfected the formula to the extent of where of the rest of the games in the mainline series except for 7, 8, and 11 were just replicating it with added gimmicks like sliding or a second Wily Castle. It's similar to how Sonic 2 just knocked it out of the park so hard that fan games to this day are still following the template of those Genesis titles.
>>9641649
Boobeam is arguably bad design but people usually die on a boss on their first try anyway so you can easily beat it on the second try if you aren't impaired in the brain

[Anonymous No.9641757]

>>9641649
>sodabrain
Also are you a fucking troonther tranny? lol
That explains some things

[Anonymous No.9641760]

>>9641752
if you don't like it so much then don't play use it*

[Anonymous No.9641763]

>>9641752
if you don't like it so much then don't use it*

[Anonymous No.9641876]

>>9641630
Its specifically NOT an answer to real criticisms of the game. But when you have people grasping at straws to say that 3 or 1 are better than 2, you're dealing with contrarians.

[Anonymous No.9641946]

>>9641876
1 isn't better, but 3 is

[Anonymous No.9642165]

>>9640670
It's because it's simply not that fun. Metal Blade kills nearly everything, but the buster also works wonders, while the rest of the weapons ding off almost every enemy and are barely even useful. Most of the stages are really linear, secrets are easy and basic to get, actually challenging and interesting sections (like the long Heat Man disappearing blocks section) has glitches that screw them up, the bosses are either really basic or a pain in the ass and the game bothers more with it's presentation and style (awesome looking wily castle, alien wily hologram boss, mecha dragon) than substance (every wily fortress boss except the boobeam being extremely basic and uninteresting, while the boobeam is more annoying than anything because knowing the solution makes it into another boring boss you do the exact same way and move on). Mega Man to me is all about experimenting on replays - what if I use this weapon here? Or against this enemy? What if it will work better? Or what if there's a secret here? 2 fails at that - it's a game that's really easy to beat if you do it the exact same way each time while barely even using the weapons, but it limits experimentation heavily and because of that, it's way less replayable. That said, Quick Man and his stage is awesome.

[Anonymous No.9642941]

>>9641630
They're going to start bitching about how charge shots make too much noise.

[Anonymous No.9643220]

I'm playing the Legacy Collection for the first time (I grew up with Wily's Revenge and X) and let me tell you it's much, much better than 3.

>Robot Masters' weaknesses can be mostly inferred by design alone instead of trial and error
>levels are shorter and checkpoints are given at points where it actually makes sense, not once have I been forced to restart and just mentally checked out like in 3
>enemies in 3 are literal damage sponges and force you to take damage most often than not, seems obvious developers were on their way to ignore the main weapon as a viable option
>the robot dog fucking sucks
>story shouldn't have gotten focus since the more you look at this world the less sense it makes, pic related should be the only context you need to get your gears turning
The first is still my go-to for replay value, though. More is not always better and it seems the franchise went that route pretty fast.

[Anonymous No.9643237]

>>9643220
>>the robot dog fucking sucks
Sucks how? Rush Jet is even more broken than Metal Blade.
>>story shouldn't have gotten focus since the more you look at this world the less sense it makes, pic related should be the only context you need to get your gears turning
Retarded complain. Mega Man is supposed to be reminiscent of Astroboy, overall a sunday morning cartoon in videogame form.

[Anonymous No.9643241]

>>9640670

[Anonymous No.9643245]

>>9643241

[Anonymous No.9643268]

>>9643245

[Anonymous No.9643271]

>>9643268

[Anonymous No.9643272]

>>9640670
It has awful boss fights such as Airman where you're forced to take damage and can only kill him by mashing B fast enough or if you have Leaf Shield.
Boobeam trap could have been the final boss and it would still be universally hated, its a terribly designed boss.
E-Tanks disappear on game over, so they're incredibly limited in how you can use them unless you grind lives.
Metal blade is the weakness for half of the enemies and bosses in the game.
The game also doesn't have the slide or charge, which were big improvements to the formula in 3 and 4.

MM2 is only really beloved by people who barely played Megaman in general.

[Anonymous No.9643274]

>>9643220
>>the robot dog fucking sucks
How? There's literally nothing wrong with Rush, especially in 3 with the broken Rush Jet.

[Anonymous No.9643291]

/vr/ is exploding.
Boombaboombaboombaboom
Not much time left.
Boombaboombaboombaboom
It's gonna be gone soon.
Boombaboombaboombaboom

[Anonymous No.9643295]

>>9640670
At least a few years ago, I remember it being considered the best in the classic series

[Anonymous No.9643301]

>>9643271

[Anonymous No.9643324]

>>9643301

[Anonymous No.9643339]

>>9643324

[Anonymous No.9644359]

>>9643339
>>9643301
These stage designs really scream "NES" to me; in a way few stages do. That and Wily stage 1 in MM4.

>>9643268
I can't believe it never hit me you go up into space. I never really thought about it and always thought this stage design was just random shit thrown together. Still kinda is though but the idea of climbing your way up a space station is cool.

[Anonymous No.9644376]

>>9640670
Boring stages, weak bosses, bullshit bosses like Quickman, horrible gimmick boss right at the end of a horrible stage.

It has the best start and finish, but everything in the middle sucks.

[Anonymous No.9644380]

>>9643272
>It has awful boss fights such as Airman where you're forced to take damage
I feel like that is the case in most every Mega Man game. Pharaoh Man is another example of that

[Anonymous No.9644489]

>>9644380
I don't think you're forced to take damage from any mm4 boss except Bright Man. Pharaoh Man can be no-damaged with good reflexes or by using his weakness. Quick Man will hit you no matter what and Air Man requires great luck. Most no damage runs in later Mega Man games are reasonable but for mm2 you have to do some insane unintended method like using item 1 in Air Man's boss room or throwing metal blades at Quick Man so that he does a block animation so you can switch back to the buster and shoot him and repeat.

[Anonymous No.9644643]

>>9644359
I think Mega Man 2 set the level design for all NES games. And with Mario World that changed.
Yes, Crash Man level is much more like Ice Climber were you go into the sky too.

[Anonymous No.9644809]

>>9640738
It set the formula that every Mega Man game followed from that point onward. The first game may have planted the flag, but 2 set the 8 robot master limit, e-tanks, castle map screens, and final level fakeout. I'd even argue the utility items 1/2/3 even though the first had the magnet beam, there was more than one area where it was mandatory to use them. Each sequel after 2 was just another MM2 + Gimmick, with Rush in 2, Charge Shot in 4, Beat in 5, Rush Armors in 6, Bolts and Store in 7, and anime bullshit in 8.

[Anonymous No.9644820]

>>9643220
If you think enemies are spongy in 3, MM7 will break you. Also the story is barely there in 3, it takes maybe a total of 30 seconds to tell.

[Anonymous No.9644828]

>>9644809
The later games didn't just copy 2 and add a gimmick. They also, for the most part, actually improved on what 2 introduced. Presentation, level design, and weapon arsenals were generally done better in the sequels, with a few exceptions (3, 5, and 10 have shit weapons, 8's stages are very gimmicky). The one thing I think 2 still has above the sequels is its soundtrack.

[Anonymous No.9644829]

>>9643241
>>9643301
Never occurred to me that Air Man and Metal Man's stages have the same shape.

[Anonymous No.9644847]

>>9644828
Also, boss design improved in the later titles. 2's bosses kinda suck. It's not enough to just call Mega Man 2 a novelty in the series that set the standard. That alone doesn't make it better than later titles.

[Anonymous No.9644854]

>>9644828
I agree. Capcom only got better at making stages. 5 genuinely had underwhelming weapons, but why call out 3? Search Snake and Gemini Laser alone pull 3's arsenal up higher for me than 'shit' rank.

[Anonymous No.9644863]

>>9644854
It's been a while since I last played 3, so I might have stretched that criticism too far. I do remember using the magnet missile, hard knuckle, and search snake a lot. Never used Gemini laser, needle cannon was good for Gemini's stage, and Spark and Top Spin were ass cheeks. Shadow Blade was just a nerfed metal blade. Overall better than 2's probably.

[Anonymous No.9645354]

>>9641503
>How about you play the games yourself.
I did and the level design sucks ass. It's slow, boring, either unchallenging or unfair

Literally just timestamp me a segment that you think is good or fun

[Anonymous No.9645382]

>it doesn't have Megaman's jump sprite sideways on the ground with ice level physics so it's less good
Fuck that. The slide was always shit and that's exactly why 2 is the standout.

[Anonymous No.9645393]

>>9645354
Not him, but I could timestamp the entire game, because I like it. It wouldn't prove a goddamn thing to you though, whichever section, because you've already decided that you hate it.

[Anonymous No.9645397]

why do midwits love the slide so much?

[Anonymous No.9645424]

>>9645354
>It's slow, boring, either unchallenging or unfair
Definitely not Zero 3. 3 maybe, X is easy, but Zero 3 is engaging and perfectly centered around Zero's mobility with good layouts, enemy placement, and freedom for experimentation with the recoil rod. If you're not having fun with Zero 3 it's because you aren't trying to.

[Anonymous No.9645432]

>>9645397
You're kidding, right? It adds an element of dodging and mobility that wasn't there before. I mean, it's kind of ass in 7 and 8, and I don't miss it too much in 9 and 10, but it makes for interesting tactics in the rest of the games.

[Anonymous No.9645463]

>>9640670
Lower? Nigger, I don't know what my favorite NES game is, this, Castlevania 2 or Zelda 1. I understand why CV 2 gets the "hate", but I luved Megaman 2 as a child.

[Anonymous No.9645484]

>>9644380
Bright can be done damageless if you never let him do his blinding time freeze move. He only does it at specific HP levels, so hitting hit with a chargeshot lets you go around those marks.

>>9644820
Common enemies in MM7 aren't very tanky, all the small guys are 4 rapid buster shots or less. Only exceptions that aren't visibly large + tanky are the crows and wolves in Shademan.

[assman No.9645621]

>>9644380
Get good or die in mediocrity

[Anonymous No.9645686]

>>9644380
Pharaoh is a very easy no-hit, as long as you don't position yourself to get nailed by his double jumping shot pattern like a chump

[Anonymous No.9646381]

>>9645621
Post your no-damage Quick Man fight

[Anonymous No.9646404]

>>9644829
Going down into the enemy base is a common layout in MM games

[Anonymous No.9646409]

>>9645397
Sliding is a great mechanic because it's a defensive and offensive move at the same time, and also quickens the game pace at will

[Anonymous No.9646920]

>>9646409
I agree. It gives the Robot Masters attack jump more quickness and action!

[Anonymous No.9646921]

>>9646920