Chrono trigger

[Anonymous No.9634958]

What was your favorite era/location?

[Anonymous No.9635127]

>>9634958
The magus castle, 600 AD, basically almost anything to do with the frog nigga

[Anonymous No.9635205]

Zeal

[Anonymous No.9635209]

>>9635127
giga based

[Anonymous No.9635241]

12,000 B.C. but in the sky (no cave niggers)

[Anonymous No.9635248]

>>9634958
65,000,000 B.C, I just love prehistory, there's nowhere near enough caveman games.

[Anonymous No.9635260]

What should I play next bros? Cross? or FF6?

[Anonymous No.9635302]

>>9635260
as someone that just played cross, it doesn't play or feel much like chrono trigger

play live a live

[Anonymous No.9635316]

>>9635302
>>9635260
Cross is a weird sequel. I never finished it as a kid and thought it had nothing to do with Trigger, but it turns out they just jammed all the connecting threads in the last 10%. Which I guess is fair enough, but still it's tonally, aesthetically, and thematically completely different. Doesn't have anywhere near the sense of fun, imagination, and wonder that Trigger did and so it falls very much short. But it has some of the best music in all of gaming so there's that.

[Anonymous No.9635342]

>>9635260
Cross of course. Just make sure you recruit Guile as your third party member so you at least have one returning character.
>>9635302
>>9635316
Cross is the better game though. It's probably the best jrpg, period

[Anonymous No.9635349]

>>9635342
I mean it's fine but ultimately its unique selling point of having an absurdly large cast bogs it down and prevents the story from being cohesive and engaging. Also it's slow as BALLLS. I can't even imagine playing it on original console without the ability to speed up combat load times.

[Anonymous No.9635368]

How can I choose its all great. 600 AD was a spectacular way to start the game though

[Anonymous No.9635371]

>>9635349
It’s the only rpg I play without fast forward. Filtered

[Anonymous No.9635375]

i wouldn't wanna live there, but the ocean palace and the black omen are pretty cool.

most of the houses in 1,000 AD look comfy. i'd like to spend more time in 1,000 AD.

there's pixel art in magus's castle that i think is massively underappreciated.

it's not really in the game, but i've always been curious what the pre-apocalypse future would be like.

[Anonymous No.9635383]

>>9635371
I'm thinking you could probably use a bit more filtering in your life if you take pride in JRPG runtimes.

[Anonymous No.9635390]

>>9635383
My successful marriage career in pro sports and published novels says otherwise zoomie

[Anonymous No.9635403]

>>9634958
65m BC because of all the dinos and Ayla is hot and she has nice boobs and I like Ayla's boobies.

[Anonymous No.9635405]

>>9635349
Cross and FF8 are the ultimate pleb filters

[Anonymous No.9635406]

>>9635349
>I mean it's fine but ultimately its unique selling point of having an absurdly large cast bogs it down and prevents the story from being cohesive and engaging.
really the worst fucking part of cross is that there's only enough sidequests for about six party members anyway, meaning that they fucked the game up with 40 characters for no benefit. Condense it down to Guile, Fargo, Nikki, Riddele, Glenn, Korcha, and Norris and you get to keep all the side quests the game currently has while actually integrating them into the plot.

>>9635371
>It’s the only rpg I play without fast forward. Filtered

are you trolling? Possibly my biggest problem with Cross, even bigger than the total shitshow exposition dumps at the end of the game, is that Cross has extremely long combat animations and the intro/outro to combat is long even by JRPG standards, and enemies flat out interrupt your turn and do long animations of their own, and you can't even spend those animations menuing like you can in the original game (benefit of ATB!). Just comparing sequences in Trigger and Cross where you have to kill packs of enemies, the reptite tower is totally painless because it takes Crono half a second to draw his sword and transition into combat, and it takes two seconds to mash through text boxes at the end of combat, meaning that when you fight multiple packs of enemies it doesn't feel like your time is wasted and its all one big connected action sequence. Meanwhile, killing all the enemies is Gaea's Navel and ESPECIALLY clearing Marbule is like pulling fucking teeth, i can't believe you could honestly play those sections without thinking that they needed to rethink how they present the combat system. It's a totally amateur approach that's synonymous with so many other lame jrpgs, especially when contrasted with its six year old predecessor that already solved the problem.

[Anonymous No.9635440]

>>9634958
Should I play this if I liked Live A ɘvi⅃?

[Anonymous No.9635457]

>>9635440
absolutely! I could not recommend it enough. Chrono Trigger is a game that I could recommend even to people that do not play JRPGs, and if you are already a fan of more compact, spectacle focused JRPGs like live a live, i would advise that you play it as soon as you possibly could. It's just a short, fun adventure with likeable characters and lovely aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.9635460]

>>9635405
maybe if you repeat it enough times in unrelated threads, you'll start to believe it some day.

[Anonymous No.9635484]

>>9635342
>It's probably the best jrpg, period
Audio-visually yes, story-wise yes. I just wish they'd done more with the combat.
At least it's visually interesting with the various attack animations for each character, and fun and quick spell animations, but it's so much more shallow than it seems.

[Anonymous No.9635490]

>>9635302
live a live is a great rec
the switch remake is v. good too

[Anonymous No.9635714]

>>9635390
Is your book titled how to be a huge fag?

[Anonymous No.9635728]

>>9635127
that was hands down best part

[Anonymous No.9635732]

>>9635260
Secret of Evermore. It's got the same vibe.

[Anonymous No.9635743]

>>9635342
>Cross is the better game though
So tired of the dumb contrarians on this board.

[Anonymous No.9635746]

>>9635127
this

[Anonymous No.9635760]

>>9635241
but also this

[Anonymous No.9635805]

>>9634958
Killed that fag like a bitch every playthrough

[Anonymous No.9635819]

>>9635342
cross gets mogged hard by radical dreamers lmfao

[Anonymous No.9635862]

>>9635819
while i do believe this as well, i think it's unfair as cross has to answer and resolve a bunch of shit and radical dreamers is only trying to get raise questions and suspense and get you interested. It's a lot easier to make intriguing setups than satisfying payoffs. And admittedly Cross certainly doesn't do itself any favors by having said payoffs be either retarded, convoluted, or nonexistent

[Anonymous No.9635872]

I'm currently doing a playthrough with my 8 year old son. We started at Christmas time and play and hour or two per week. Seeing a kid today play this with the same wonder I did at his age really says it all about this game as a timeless classic

[Anonymous No.9635896]

I liked the future actually (2000 AD)

it was the first time I had seen a post-apocalyptic future that was actually bleak and hopeless, very cool, would freeze to death alone and surrounded by hulking metal wreckage A+

[Anonymous No.9635901]

>>9635390
What's a successful marriage career?
And how do you have one in pro sports?
Did you marry the team?

[Anonymous No.9635908]

>>9635872
>8 year old son
Are you reading the dialogue to him, or can he read it himself?

[Anonymous No.9635912]

>>9635908
This is the first game he reads 90% of the dialogue by himself. Bigger words like Millenium or Frog's Olde English I need to jump in and help.

[Anonymous No.9635924]

Reuniting goth guy with his cat is peak Chrono Trigger

[Anonymous No.9635945]

i just played radical dreamers + cross and i'd recommend most people play radical dreamers beforehand if they are open to that style of game. Great atmosphere and the callbacks in Cross are some of the highlights of the game.

[Anonymous No.9635949]

>>9635908
Are you black? What fucking 8 year old can’t read?

[Anonymous No.9635986]

>>9635949
if only you knew how bad things really are.
https://www.thinkimpact.com/literacy-statistics/

[Anonymous No.9636490]

Replaying. What is the worst team? I usually use Crono, Ayla, and someone else. I'm thinking maybe Lucca, Marle and Frog?

[Anonymous No.9636519]

>>9635342
>Cross is the better game though. It's probably the best jrpg, period

[Anonymous No.9636525]

>>9636490
Any team without Ayla

[Anonymous No.9636652]

The Future. I wonder what kind of world the machines would had made and how would they had dealt with Lavos' spawn.

[Anonymous No.9636654]

>>9635945
This
Plus Kid is peak waifu

[Anonymous No.9636741]

Hard to say but the worst (and the only place I’ve ever quit the game) is the first trip to the distant future with those bum-ass pods and factories. Fuck that factory level bro.

[Anonymous No.9637038]

>>9634958
Zeal. Amazing atmosphere and storyline and the fact that you couldn't do anything for Schala and her sad fate even after you save Crono broke my heart.

[Anonymous No.9637051]

>>9635342
Guile is not Magus, Magus is barely even mentioned in the game and this is just one of the many reasons Cross is dogshit.

[Anonymous No.9637208]

>>9636490
>Lucca, Marle and Frog?
Sounds about right. Don't use tabs.

[Anonymous No.9637292]

>>9636490
>>9637208
I'd replace either Lucca or Frog with Magus.

[Anonymous No.9637330]

>>9637292
Why not Marle? She's naturally fast and has the best heals+haste. I think Lucca/Frog/Magus with no tabs to boost them would be the weakest. Pretty low overall speed and attack, weak heals, strong magic though. Could replace Frog or Magus with Robo but he's kind of too strong even with his speed.
It's funny how it's pretty hard to make a bad team in this game. The only way to get a team with no heals is by including Crono.

[Anonymous No.9637332]

>>9635986
women are cringe

[Anonymous No.9637343]

>>9635986
Has dispraxia perhaps? Mind you, it's the daily tabloid, probably fake news

[Anonymous No.9637345]

>>9637332
What, you've actually met one? (your mother doesn't count)

[Anonymous No.9637393]

>>9636490
you just play 1 team? I change my team based on the point in the story. I always say I'm gonna mix things up but everytime I go with the same characters at the same points in the story.

also I never spare Magus because he adds nothing and I dont save Luccas mom because I like what Robo says when you fail.

[Anonymous No.9637736]

For the music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WojscNaYABc

[Anonymous No.9637859]

>>9635375
If you're interested, the Crimson Echoes romhack tries to tell a new story after the events of the game and lets you explore 1999 A.D. a bit, I never finished it though and it can be a bit of a mess in places

[Anonymous No.9637868]

>>9636741
The gameplay itself can be a slog when you get to the future but the setting itself is probably my favorite, it's so grimy and bleak which is a neat offset to the relatively peaceful and beautiful world you start in

[Anonymous No.9637930]

>>9637330
>heals
Marle is really overrated in this regard. She has heals, yes, but her heals are single-target only. Somehow the developers thought it was a good idea to give Robo and Frog multi-target single-tech heals, which is horrifically unbalanced against Marle.
>haste
This becomes completely useless once you have Haste Helms, although you can't get them until extremely late in the game.
I'd say Lucca and Magus are the most situational characters after Marle, except the game throws you a bone with pretty decent Triple Tech featuring those characters. Also, access to every magical element definitely has its perks despite multi-targeting being a detriment sometimes, so I'd begrudgingly have to leave Magus out.
>>9637859
>Crimson Exhoes lets you explore 1999 A.D.
Considering that is much older than Chrono Trigger+, I shudder to think of how bad CE's proto-1999 was.

[Anonymous No.9638008]

>>9637051
>Guile is not Magus
this has been retconned back, chrono trigger DS added an ending that gives magus amnesia, and the radical dreamers port adds a text crawl to the remaster credits about magus that says he is more comfortable wearing a mask than he his with his own face.

[Anonymous No.9638020]

>>9637930
CT+ looks neat, I actually wasn't aware of it. CE definitely feels very unfinished in certain areas.

[Anonymous No.9638039]

>>9638020
>CT+ looks neat,
There's some cool stuff in it like the implementation of the two cut songs, but it's riddled with typos and syntax errors. It's also buggy as shit, I was recently forced to abort a playthrough because the fucking thing crashed whenever i tried to crash the epoch into lavos (I assume because i killed magus and that threw it for a loop?)

[Anonymous No.9638141]

>>9638020
https://desuarchive.org/vr/thread/5938236/

[Anonymous No.9638446]

>>9638141
This writing reminds me of when I used rpg maker 95 as a kid.

[Anonymous No.9638449]

The atmosphere when first stepping in 12000 BC is unmatched in any game ever

[Anonymous No.9638635]

>>9635260
Baten Kaitos

[Anonymous No.9638845]

Visiting the End of Time for the first time blew my mind. That and Zeal Kingdom.

[Anonymous No.9638852]

>>9635260
You played the best game of all time. It's all downhill from there.

[Anonymous No.9638878]

Are there any other time-traveling games with the same sense of mystery and "I'm not sure where I'll end up next" storytelling?

Day of the Tentacle is sort of like that, but not really.

I think CT does it exactly right with story beats and the sense of exploration and wonder being perfectly spaced out so nothing in particular overstays its welcome

[Anonymous No.9638913]

Chrono trigger was my favorite game when I was 12 back in 1995. Tried playing it recently and it’s the most brain dead simplistic shit game I’ve played in a coons age. A blind retard could beat this game with one arm cut off. Wish I had a low enough iq like you retards to have stagnated and still enjoy children’s games

[Anonymous No.9638919]

https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1675729163326559.webm

[Anonymous No.9638982]

>>9636490
I think any randomly generated team would beat the game trivially with no grinding. Marle has haste and arise. And Lucca + Frog has decent combos with most other "weaker" characters. I did Marle + Lucca + Robo (once I could remove Chrono) recently with explicit attempts to 0 grind and found more than enough tools to get through.

[Anonymous No.9638991]

>>9636490
Crono/Lucca/Ayla is what i last beat the game with, it's probably the worst because you have access to absolutely no group healing and have to use items (Ayla's kiss is only good for healing status ailments)

[Anonymous No.9639004]

I've tried on and off again to get into this game a couple times over the years, but fell off during the far future for one reason or another. Really sat down more recently after completing Live A Live, and I made it to Magus's castle a couple hours ago. Really charming game so far, I like the use of time travel to be able to see the full history of a typical jrpg fantasy world from its inception in prehistory, to trying to prevent its own future Mad Max apocalypse.

Been a while since I've been excited to see where a game will take me next. Will likely try Cross when I'm done with Trigger, should I just emulate it, or grab the remaster? I know both have their issues, but thought I'd ask anyway.

[Anonymous No.9639029]

>>9638982
>Lucca + Frog has decent combos
With them alone you get Frog Flare, which is crazy.

[Anonymous No.9639034]

>>9638991
Yeah but if you revive Frog or Ayla and don't heal them you get the max damage on their ultimate attack.

[Anonymous No.9639070]

>>9639004
Personally I would recommend the remaster because of the fast forward button (cross is a slow game) and especially because it comes with Radical Dreamers, a 3 hour or so text adventure/VN thing that came out a year after chrono trigger and sets up some of the plot developments of chrono cross. it's not strictly required if you aren't up for that kind of game (it's set in like an alternate dimension or something) but i like the writing and the characters that it introduces.

Emulated and remaster are graphically the same (you'll be playing the remaster with original graphics because the backgrounds are fugly as shit if you don't), the remaster runs at a better framerate if you apply the 60fps fix but actually runs worse than the original without it (RIP people that bought the remaster on console)

[Anonymous No.9639076]

>>9635260
ff5 or lufia 2, to be honest

[Anonymous No.9639081]

>>9639070
Cool, I'll do that then. Thanks

[Anonymous No.9639451]

>>9637051
>Guile isn't Magus
Retard-anon, please stop

[Anonymous No.9639469]

>>9635986
I don't know why people don't realize the UK media is either low IQ yellow journalism clickbait or imperial globalist propaganda.

Either way it's nothing but nonsense; CNN unironically better.

[Anonymous No.9639525]

>>9639034
marle has that spell that will auto res someone when they die so you can really exploit those Frog and Ayla techs

[Anonymous No.9639729]

>>9639451
Show me one thing from Chrono Cross pointing out that Guile is Magus. One single thing. It shouldn't be so hard if your headcanon is true, should it?

The truth is that Kato, that hack, thought about making Guile the amnesiac Magus then changed his mind when he decided to have 50 inconsequencial companions in his game. It was just an early idea that went nowhere and has no relevance to any discussion about the game. Just like Kato wanted to have Crono dead for good in Chrono Trigger but was laughed out of the room by Horii and you ended up being able to resurrect him. Early drafts have no bearing on the finished story. This is just cope by Crossfags who will grasp at any straw they can to avoid accepting that the shitty game they love so much is actually a baf game and a godawful sequel.

[Anonymous No.9639735]

>>9637393
Based all bad endings anon.

[Anonymous No.9639830]

>>9637930
>Chrono Trigger+
Did he ever get the playable human version of Frog working or is it still cutscenes only?

[Anonymous No.9639912]

>>9639451
>>9638008
This is "dumbledore was gay all along" nonsense. Doesn't have any relevance in Chrono cross

[Anonymous No.9639968]

>>9639735
I've got every ending possible on snes. magus adds nothing. he doesnt even have an ending. you just get his sprite standing there taking up space. I'd rather have Glenn.

[Anonymous No.9640028]

>>9637393
>>9639968
>it's the weird "killmagus" anon
Even if you're a turbo-Glennfag, this Magus-only scene of Queen Lenne joining Frog to watch the Epoch in the distance and then turn to him in realization is so friggin' adorable.

[Anonymous No.9641557]

>>9638919

[Anonymous No.9641561]

>>9634958
600 AD is my favorite overall, but I'm a big fan of 65,000,000 BC too. Just wish there was more to do there. It's a shame Singing Mountain got cut. That or another side quest at the end would've been cool. I guess Giant's Claw is basically the prehistoric sidequest.

[Anonymous No.9641703]

I don't get the cross love. trigger is hands down awesome. but everything about cross is weird: the combat, the do nothing collectable pokemon characters, the sad stories. trigger has a great story, great characters, fun combat and combos, and its pretty lighthearted. cross is almost the opposite.

[Anonymous No.9641983]

>>9635127
>magus castle
turbo ultra giga CRINGE

god, how pathetic can you be?

[Anonymous No.9642634]

>>9641703
Two reasons for people saying they like Cross
>Nostalgia
It was the first jrpg they played back when they were kids, they couldn't see its many, many flaws, they refuse to accept that something so dear to their heart might actually be garbage.
>Contrarianism
Nothing more than popular game bad, unpopular game good. Remember where you are.

[Anonymous No.9642769]

>>9638141
Top kek. Are all romhacks this terrible? Someone said good things about Schala edition in a previous thread, is it just as bad?

[Cheswick !!N+IzTQ7ncgO No.9642808]

>>9635316
It doesn't connect because it's a dream. And not really what happened after chrono trigger.

[Gary No.9642880]

What is the best tech and why is it Frog Squash?

[Anonymous No.9643003]

>>9641703
>>9642634
God forbids people have different tastes, right?
It's like you can love games for different reasons.

Why I love Cross?
The music
The sad stories
How the game is super existential in general
Awesome artistic direction
The whole plot is shrouded in mystery and if you love that, you'll love trying to put things together the opassa beach pays off is retarded but up to that point, it was great. Only works one time though
And the gameplay is weird but I like it

Verdict : Great game but Radical Dreamers has better replayability in the end lol

[Anonymous No.9643012]

>>9643003
Basically it's like asking how people can love both FFV and FFVII when these games have nothing in common besides "final fantasy"

Cross was trying to pull a Final fantasy but decided to keep things in the same universe instead of starting over

[Anonymous No.9643072]

>>9643012
Very disingenuous comparison when Cross is supposed to be a direct sequel that also shits on everything the original game did, unlike the mainline FF games.

A better comparison is star wars, with the Disney trilogy and especiall Rian Johnson's turd being pretty similar to Cross in what they did.

[Anonymous No.9643137]

>>9643072
>when Cross is supposed to be a direct sequel

It's not.
It's basically an alternate future scenario based on a unresolved plot point... in a universe confirmed to have an unlimited amount of parallel universe. (so Radical dreamers is canon)
Even the game's setting plays by these rules given you never actually set foot on the continents in chrono trigger.

I agree that the game has some big problems, it should have been advertised better, and it would have been better to include Magus instead of POSHUL and pals but it's been 20 years now. We know what the game was aiming for by now and by its own thing it's good.

In fact, I think it's better to have Chrono Cross rather than Trigger 2 because it would mean the former is no longer a stand-alone story. You can ignore cross and it changes nothing, it's like a Gaiden game

[Anonymous No.9643147]

>>9643137
>>9643072
Also, I don't think the comparison with star wars holds for a simple reason.
Masato Kato was the most important writer in Chrono trigger.
For him the essence of CT isn't the shonen stuff but ZEAL, the scene after you save (or don't) Lucca's mom, Ayla's musings about the meaning of life, the roaring on the map while "memories of green" plays, etc.
So he decided to write a new game and push these things even further, just like georges lucas was more interested in making toys rather than The Empire Strikes back.

So yeah, I guess it sucks because people wanted a balance of these elements but it's still chrono. And it's more chrono than a game that would have been full-blown shonen without Kato's influence

[Anonymous No.9643323]

Best location for CT is...

[Anonymous No.9643341]

>>9643323
Yeah it was a cheap shot but also bucket at the end of time reference

[Anonymous No.9643559]

>>9638878
It's a visual novel, not an RPG, but try the original version of YU-NO.
Beautiful art, gorgeous, gorgeous fucking music (even better than Chrono Trigger's IMO), an unforgettable experience even if it isn't perfect. Very much a flawed gem.
Even before you get the time machine the present day feels like a distant, alien dreamworld.
I really recommend trying it even if you don't finish it. It gets pretty obtuse later on, but it's such a shame to miss out on.

[Anonymous No.9643672]

>>9643072
A direct sequel would be called chrono trigger 2

Cross is not a direct sequel. As said by the director

Mongoloid

[Anonymous No.9643709]

>>9643147
>Masato Kato was the most important writer in Chrono trigger.
That's a filthy lie. Yuji Horii was the main writer of Chrono Trigger. Kato was one of the many writers assigned to flesh out the various time periods. Kato was assigned to Zeal and you can see his influence in all the dream stuff that goes nowhere and has no relevance to the main plot. But he was always only allowed to follow Horii's outline.

As a side note, Kato hated time travel and when he was brought into the staff to help in the middle of development his first suggestion was to cut out time travel entirely from the story. But of course, he wasn't actually in charge and was overruled in his most egregious stupidity.

[Anonymous No.9643712]

This lie began in Square's promotions for Chrono Cross, when Kato was portrayed as Triggers main writer in order to soften the blow over none of the Dream Team wanting to return for the sequel, and it has been perpetuated ever since. But all of the interviews from around the time Chrono Trigger came out agree that Horii was in charge, not Kato. He just wasn't interested in doing a sequel when Square wanted to take advantage of the game's reception.

[Anonymous No.9643714]

Kato had no intention for a sequel either initially, of course. The idea only came to him while he was making an unrelated game about thieves burgling a mansion, hit writer's block close to the ending and decided to resolve that block by randomly connecting it to Chrono Trigger's only unresolved plot point: Schala's fate and Magus's quest to save her.

[Anonymous No.9643716]

>For him the essence of CT isn't the shonen stuff but ZEAL, the scene after you save (or don't) Lucca's mom, Ayla's musings about the meaning of life, the roaring on the map while "memories of green" plays, etc.
That is kinda true, in that Kato disliked heroic stories and happy endings and wanted to turn Chrono Trigger into a gloomy story with cheap drama and no happy ending. But of course, he wasn't actually in charge and was overruled in his most egregious stupidity.

[Anonymous No.9643721]

>>9643147
>Also, I don't think the comparison with star wars holds
>So yeah, I guess it sucks because people wanted a balance of these elements but it's still chrono. And it's more chrono than a game that would have been full-blown shonen without Kato's influence
No, the comparison is very apt. Both sequel stories were written by someone other than the man who wrote the original, both completely shit on the original heroes and everything they accomplished, both ape the form of the original and copy entire scenes without understanding of why those scenes worked and why people liked them, something shown in your own pic, both display contempt for the original, its heroic message and the audience who liked it, both have a needlessly convoluted story full of retarded twists and subversions that ultimately serve no purpose other than to stroke the writer's ego. Chrono Cross is the Disney Wars of jRPGs, there's no way around that.
>And it's more chrono than a game that would have been full-blown shonen without Kato's influence
Just like the hack who wrote the sequel that you love, you fundamentally misunderstand Chrono Trigger. It's a lighthearted story where a bunch of random teenagers save the world from a space parasite through the power of determination and friendship. It had its more serious moments of course, and they were great, but Chrono Trigger is ultimately a hopeful story and far closer to what you disparage as "shonen" than the overwritten drama that was Cross.

>>9643672
>A sequel needs that number on its name or it's not a sequel
>It's not a direct sequel, even if it's set in the same world a few years later, it features the same villain, it shows us the unhappy fate of the entire cast and blames the older heroes for screwing up the world so that the new heroes can come and clean up that mess
lol
lmao, even

[Anonymous No.9643738]

>>9643709
>>9643712
The Zeal plotline is what elevates chrono trigger story from "heh, cool time travel adventure" to "OH MY GOD"
It's like saying Yasunori mitsuda didn't define's chrono trigger soundtrack because a more experienced composer (Uematsu) was there to help

To keep up the star wars analogy, it would be like saying Georges Lucas is the guy who made the trilogy successful because he had the main idea, and not the other writers who worked their asses off to make it coherent or even crafted the tone of the empire strikes back.
It's not to diss Yuuji Horii, he wrote DQV and he's a good writer but he was literally the "idea guy" in chrono triggerr and besides the episode with Marle and her grand-grand mother, he didn't do that much.

>>9643716
Crono's death is pretty kino though. He had to be controlled a bit, kinda like Nomura on FFVII but you can't claim he didn't define what separates CT from all those other shonen RPGs
That's why I said that Chrono Cross is basically "more of the melancholic essence of Chrono". It's not Trigger 2 for sure, but I didn't feel entirely out of place playing it

[Anonymous No.9643739]

>>9642880
Because summons are always the coolest spells

[Anonymous No.9643768]

>>9643721
>Both sequel stories were written by someone other than the man who wrote the original
Kato was not the main writer in CT (aka the guy in charge of validating X and Y), but he was *the most important*, as explained before. So it's not the same already
Masato Kato would be like Lawrence Kasdan writing a star wars movie of his own

>you fundamentally misunderstand Chrono Trigger
Lol.
I'm the one who said Chrono trigger is a mix of Shonen *AND* the existential philosophy of Kato. You're the one who fundamentally misunderstand CT. It's not one or the other, it's both together because whether you want it or not, that's how the ends product feels.
Ask the players what they remember from CT and most of the time, it won't be the fact they saved the world with friendship but shit like this >>9638845
>>9638449
>>9637868
>>9635924

Because you save the world in every other game already. Not to diss that part either because, like I said, CT is both.
I don't have an autistic war to wage on CT and CC. Both are good and the former is a must-play (I recommend it to anyone, even people who hate JRPGs), I'm just explaining how someone who loved CT can love CC too

[Anonymous No.9643821]

>>9636654
Cute kiddo

[Anonymous No.9643836]

[Anonymous No.9643931]

Could you imagine how the scene with Magus and his cat would be handled today?

>Marle: that cat over there...Now where have we seen one like that before?
>Frog: Prithee is that not art Magus's kitty?
>Lucca: Wow, I think you're right! Maybe we should return here with Magus in the party and see what happens!
>return with Magus in the party
>slow walk and chat with party members about cat as they approach it
>five minute cutscene where Magus and cat reunite after which Magus has to use the power of love for his cat to defeat shadow Lavos on the moon

[Anonymous No.9643941]

>>9643931
STOP STOP PLEASE NO MORE IT HURTS

[Anonymous No.9643964]

>>9639729
>how me one thing from Chrono Cross pointing out that Guile is Magus. One single thing. It shouldn't be so hard if your headcanon is true, should it?

this is such a stupid thing to dig your heel in over; it's a retcon. as in, RETROACTIVE continuity. The only thing that supports it are things that released after Cross ie the DS port of Trigger and the Cross remaster credits.

[Anonymous No.9643968]

>>9643738
>That filename
Kato wanted Crono to remain dead, you're so blinded by your fanboyism that you're attributing to him something that even he admitted he didn't want! That scene would have never happened if he was actually in charge of writing Trigger.

>>9643768
>Kato was not the main writer in CT (aka the guy in charge of validating X and Y), but he was *the most important*, as explained before. So it's not the same already
Kato's role in the story of Chrono Trigger has been vastly, vastly overinflated by his fanboys who have been coping ever since Cross came out and was not received warmly. Picrel is what Kato's writing looks like.
>Ask the players what they remember from CT and most of the time, it won't be the fact they saved the world with friendship but shit like this
Most of those things were not written by Kato. The only thing he did in Trigger was flesh out Zeal, following Horii's outline. He didn't even write everything in that era by himself! And people absolutely remember saving the world. Chrono Trigger would not have been remembered remotely as fondly as it is if it was nearly as bleak as Cross.

[Anonymous No.9644079]

>>9643968
As I've stated again, I have no desire to oppose CT and CC. You're projecting a sense of "fanboyism" that only exists because as gamers we are mostly immature manchildren that love to ramble and battle about commercial products.
I loved Chrono Cross, I loved Chrono trigger and I 100% admit that Trigger is the better game by far and that CC shits the bed with its plot.

However I'm interested in truth. Kato shitting the bed doesn't mean the dude isn't responsible for Trigger's success and it doesn't mean that Cross doesn't carry's Kato writing style.
It's like how Toriyama was given free reign in the Buu arc and made it parodic and nonsensical. It's not the same as when he was under his editor, but you can see how it carries some of the spirit.

Now, to finish the debate. I'll present you things that Kato did with CT. You can pretend it's "revisionism" or whatever, but many of them comes from CT's pre-release

[Anonymous No.9644091]

Good thread about Masato kato's involvement in Chrono trigger
https://twitter.com/Dreamboum/status/1496693999045943297
So, to summarize he
>wrote most of the script (the script, the whole stuff) and edited the final plotline after the intial brainstorming with Horii
>came up with the back and forth visits between epochs
>came up with the multiple endings idea
>came up with the double/triple tech idea
>came up with the non-random battles system
>designed the characters before toriyama stepped in
>was basically the director before/alongside those who stepped-in mid developpement. He wasn't credited as such because he was new.

More here, by the same dude, It's resetera, I know, but like some philosopher said : no shame in quoting a good line/truth from a bad author

https://www.resetera.com/threads/beyond-the-dream-team-an-overview-of-masato-katos-work-and-contributions-to-chrono-trigger.561646/

Yuji horii didn't do much besides laying the main idea and deciding what kind of stuff to put in. He basically decided "okay now there should be [such area] and was giving his orders through FAX. He wasn't even in the studio
>that's revisionism created before CC's release!
That's actually from a 1995 interview by Sakaguchi and Horii. It can be read here :
https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Chrono_Trigger:_The_Perfect.html
So yeah, he shat the bed with the sequel, but the dude is to thanks for CT's highs. That's why Mitsuda doesn't want to work on another game without Kato. He knew the dude poured as much work as he did. The "dream team" exists and they're important but it's their legacy that is overinflated.

Good night

[Anonymous No.9644140]

>>9643721
>Both sequel stories were written by someone other than the man who wrote the original
The astounding lack of knowledge and misinformation that Cross haters regurgitate

[Anonymous No.9644147]

>>9643968
This wall of text proves that Cross ins a well written game

[Anonymous No.9644153]

>>9644091
Basado

[Anonymous No.9644180]

>>9644140
Some guys are still pissed that a sequel dared trying something different and won't let go after 2 decades.

>>9644091
Very creative guy overall, but he needed people to keep him in check. Masato Kato probably imagined putting 35 characters would make the world more alive ; but he didn't realize he wasn't given an infinite budget nor an infinite time to finish the game. That's how things like >>9643968 happens. It reads like a student trying to finish his essay at 3a.m before the deadline. Xenogears had the same problem.

[Anonymous No.9644236]

>>9644147
>the panther demon and lynx are totally unrelated entities
>lynx revealed as serge's dad hours past the point where lynx matters to the plot, literally minutes before the end of the game
>reptite tower being pulled in for literally no reason, you never even get the chance to talk to a single reptite and get their perspective
no sorry. i liked a lot of cross but the clumsy exposition dumps do a lot of damage to the narrative. it needed to spread this information out over the course of the game instead of making the computer terminals in chronopolis and ghosts shit truckloads of lore at you. You know, like how Trigger slowly fleshed out the setting, origin, and threat of Lavos a little more with each era you travelled to? Cross just goes OH SHIT WE GOTTA WRAP THIS UP a few hours from the end of the game.

[Anonymous No.9644278]

>>9644147
Problem with Cross is the fighting system

[Anonymous No.9644282]

>>9644236
In cross i played hours without understanding what was the endgame, then gave up before what you described

[Anonymous No.9644289]

>>9643147
Is Kid a tranny?

[Anonymous No.9644441]

>>9644140
>Crossfags still pretend Kato was responsible for writing Trigger
lol

>>9644147
lmao, even

>>9644180
What did anon mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9644490]

>>9634958
I dont know why, but i loved that game so much. I still get feels from it, but Zeal was my fav place

[Anonymous No.9644726]

>>9644079
>However I'm interested in truth. Kato shitting the bed doesn't mean the dude isn't responsible for Trigger's success and it doesn't mean that Cross doesn't carry's Kato writing style.
No one ever disagreed that Cross carries Kato's writing style. But that's the entire problem. Cross is very, very different from Trigger, I don't think anyone can disagree with that either. And the reason why is that Kato's importance in writing Trigger has been vastly, vastly overinflated by Square, himself and his fanboys. What exactly he was responsible for will never be fully known, but we know some things and can infer some others.
>Kato did not want this to be a time travel story. He was outvoted in an early meeting.
>Kato did not come up with the idea of Crono's death. That was a unnamed writer in an early meeting. Kato was the only one who liked the idea before Horii agreed, but Kato wanted for Crono to be permadead. He is not responsible for the scene of Crono's resurrection either.
>Kato did not write the outline of the story. That was Horii
>Kato fleshed out Zeal, but not the other time eras.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he didn't do anything. By comparing what's in Cross, where he was responsible for everything, with what's in Trigger, I can believe we can get a pretty good estimate of what he wrote. It's a similar process to comparing the SW OT to the prequels to understand what Luccas was responsible for (worldbuilding, grand scenery, creative aliens, sense of wonder, heroic story) and what he wasn't (dialogue, characters, the story making sense.)

[Anonymous No.9644732]

What does it tell us about Kato? The entire city of dreamers fits with the pseudophilosophical meandering he's fond of, and is also entirely disconnected from the rest of the game. I'm sure this was entirely his. He has said that he came up with the plot of Zeal, but we have to remember that he did not think of Crono's death, so he can't have written everything about Zeal. He definitely had a hand in Schala's story, but he can't have written everything about her either or he wouldn't have felt the need to retcon so much about her in Cross (even her hair is different!) and he definitely would not have written her brother out of the sequel when he was so central to her.

For other sections that you seem to have attributed to Kato, I'm also confident in saying that he did NOT write Fiona's forest and the camp scene (goes against Cross's message of "humans bad for environment" and the campfire scene is contradicted in Cross), he did not write anything about prehistory (Cross even says that humans did not exist before Lavos arrived, retconning Ayla into a neanderthal), etc, he did not write any of the happy endings (he hated happy endings and retconned them into tragedies with his sequel) and he did not write any of the whimsical scenes of Trigger (too many to list).

Now, you may come and say that this means nothing, we can't actually compare the writing like that and he's responsible for more than I give him credit for, but then we need the answer to a simple question: If Kato wrote all that, why the hell did he feel the need to retcon, contradict or alter so much of it in the sequel? If Kato really is responsible for most of Trigger, as crossfags keep asserting, why the hell are the two games NOT mostly similar in theme, tone, or most of anything, really? Is your answer going to be that the games are actually very similar and the audience is just too dumb to understand Kato's genius, as I have heard in the past?

[Anonymous No.9644737]

>>9644091
Lemme check the actual sources for all that.
>your pic
picrel. Convenient how they took out "I'm only involved with the plot" to make it seem as if Horii was less involved than he really was, isn't it? Letting other people flesh out the fairgrounds of the game is very, very different from what this quote has been twisted into.

and about the credits
> Oh yeah, I also recall that when it came time to make the staff roll, they thought about placing "the most important people" on the top and just giving the title of the "scenario writer" to the top people of the planning division. I personally didn't (and don't) give a hoot about any titles or that sorta' stuff, so I just told them, "do whatever you like" - but then, Mr. Tokita and Mr. Kitase protested and in the end, I remember I was given the rather unusual title of the "story-planner". But that was pretty much how the situation went, and so even after finishing the project, I only had this feeling of relief from having rid myself of this heavy burden. I was finally free, and I could at last take on something new now.
Context makes some difference, don't you think? Not to mention the blatant speculation about the directors supposedly realizing the level of contribution he added to the game that would not have existed otherwise.

>wrote most of the script (the script, the whole stuff) and edited the final plotline after the intial brainstorming with Horii
What your source actually says
>After Yuji Horii of Dragon Quest fame wrote the basic plot, the main story was edited and rewritten by him.
Edited and rewritten, NOT wrote most of the script. It also states "the sub-scenarios were created by Mr. Tokita and Mr. Kitase", something conveniently ignored. Kato does say he wrote 100% of Zeal, but I explained above why I doubt this claim. I'm feeling charitable though and I'll concede on this point if you concede that Kato did not have a hand in the other eras, but I have a feeling that you won't.

[Anonymous No.9644743]

>came up with the back and forth visits between epochs
This is not stated anywhere in your source.
>came up with the multiple endings idea
That twitter moron does state that, but his source is picrel where Kato says "WE couldn't include a lot of storyline splits in Chrono Trigger, so WE stuck with a multi-ending setup." Nowhere does Kato say that HE was the one who came up with the multiple endings idea. I'm guessing that both you and the twitter guy already believe that Kato wrote most of Trigger, so WE becomes I in your minds.
>came up with the double/triple tech idea
This is not stated anywhere in your source.
>came up with the non-random battles system
This is not stated anywhere in your source.

[Anonymous No.9644750]

>designed the characters before toriyama stepped in
The twitter idiot does state that, but his source does not say that Kato came up with the designs, only that he drew sketches too. This is not uncommon at all during development. Kato coming up with the designs contradicts what has actually been stated in other interviews, where Toriyama is directly attributed as being responsible for them. picrel.
>was basically the director before/alongside those who stepped-in mid developpement. He wasn't credited as such because he was new.
The twitter idiot does state that, but he offers no source for that claim, and the claim contradicts what has been stated elsewhere. What has actually been stated is that he was about to not be credited as a WRITER because he was new, not as a director and he didn't care about that.
>More here, by the same dude, It's resetera, I know, but like some philosopher said : no shame in quoting a good line/truth from a bad author
What that idiot has stated so far are neither good lines nor the truth. Let's see what else he says.
>All of it is from the sources I've read (I'll link most of I can remember reading at the bottom), however as is the case with interviews, things can get scrambled or have different perspectives. So I encourage people with sources to adjust some elements to get in there and correct me. Even better if you have more examples of what Kato has done in CT.
Top kek

[Anonymous No.9644752]

The guy does not actually offer any sources for his assertions, he's just repeating the same drivel about how Kato was the real genius behind everything in Trigger, so I'm just not gonna bother responding to him line by line, except for two things:
>Coming up with the Double and Triple Tech system
>In a recent interview, Masato Kato revealed he was the one who came up with this idea
>Coming up with the seamless battles
>In the same recent interview, it is revealed that Kato also came up with this idea
Both of these statements were included in your summary of the twitter thread but they only appear here, not on twitter. They are also both from the same recent interview, that I don't remember to have read, so they only reinforce my point of Kato's importance being inflated recently, way after the controversy of Cross.

I am also going to respond to his own observations that he's appended in the end though.
>From the interviews I've read, it seems that Kato is someone that simply cannot be contained creatively and never listens to anyone.
Top kek, again. He was contained in both the matter of Crono's death and the matter of making this a time travel story, among other things, making this statement blatantly false and just obvious fanboyism.
>He went on to make Chrono Cross, after Chrono 2 turned into Xenogears, which is something he *really* wanted to do. This part is very interesting, as reading interviews it seems that he was visited by characters of Chrono Trigger and Radical Dreamers in his dreams to continue the story.
This is a major twisting of the truth. When Trigger was over, Kato was done and very glad to stop bothering with a story he did not enjoy writing. If he was visited by the characters of Chrono Trigger, it was close to the ending of Radical Dreamers, a formerly unrelated story that he hastedly turned into a sort-of sequel, much like he did for Cross. I have already posted the pic that proves it here. >>9643714, so have the siblings instead.

[Anonymous No.9644756]

>Yuji horii didn't do much besides laying the main idea and deciding what kind of stuff to put in. He basically decided "okay now there should be [such area] and was giving his orders through FAX. He wasn't even in the studio
Blatant drivel. What was actually stated:
>—Sakaguchi-san, would you say there was a part where Horii’s personality shone through?
>Sakaguchi: Yes and no. When I read the faxes he sent me, I was surprised. They were written like flowcharts, and the response time showed an almost user-like mentality. I thought it was amazing.
I have no idea how you can go from "guy in charge sent some amazingly detailed faxes" to "GUY IN CHARGE WAS ACTUALLY NOT IN CHARGE AND HE HAD TO SENT FAXES BECAUSE HE WASN'T EVEN IN THE STUDIO" but I am not surprised in the least by a crossfag, err, sorry, a "truth-seeker" who twists the truth to support his narrative. There's no other way to defend Chrono Cross and that hack Kato.

>that's revisionism created before CC's release!
>That's actually from a 1995 interview by Sakaguchi and Horii. It can be read here :
And Kato is not mentioned once in that entire interview! That's pretty telling about his real importance or lack thereof, isn't it?

>So yeah, he shat the bed with the sequel, but the dude is to thanks for CT's highs. That's why Mitsuda doesn't want to work on another game without Kato. He knew the dude poured as much work as he did.
top kek. Mitsuda is a personal friend of Kato. It has nothing to do with what Mitsuda thinks about Kato's work and everything to do with their relationship. Mitsuda also wrote songs for Kato's mobage, but that doesn't say anything about the Chrono games either.

[Anonymous No.9644758]

>The "dream team" exists and they're important but it's their legacy that is overinflated.
And once again, the opposite is true. The dream team's importance has been downplayed by crossfags ever since the sequel came out without their involvement, and the reason is very, very obvious.

btw, I have to thank you for sharing those links from twitter and resetera. I have been wondering where all that revisionist history about Kato came from recently, and it now makes perfect sense.

Holy shit, that came out pretty long. inb4 you ignore most of my points because you have nothing to say to counter them.

[Anonymous No.9644895]

>>9643072
>>9643012
Maybe it's been too long since I played CC, but I thought it was explained as just being the story of two possible timelines out of an infinite number of them where Crono and co. failed and Porre attacked Guardia.
If it wasn't explained, then my headcannon makes it simultaneously both a direct sequel and a non-sequel, which is neat.
That said, CT and CC are both bad and arguing over which is better is a dumb thing that dumb people do, like arguing cat turds are way better than dog turds. Bro, it's still shit either way.

[Anonymous No.9646090]

>>9634958
Not too sure why but future AD time period seemed most memorable to me. I think it had to do with the music when you travel the overworld. Maybe I should play the game again. I got the best ending on my first try. I can't imagine killing Magus either.

[Anonymous No.9646110]

>>9635260
BS Radical Dreamers, then Cross.

[Anonymous No.9646214]

>>9643559
nta but thanks man, you sold me on it

[Anonymous No.9646491]

>>9634958
I would agree with
>>9635205
>>9635241
>>9637038
>>9638449
This, is the best time. The contrast from below to the most beautiful area in Zeal. The music really kicks in, with the wonder and majesty that elevates the game's Hogwarts. If only the full song, instead of just looping the howling blizzard winds opening portion of the song was used below, the whole era would have a huge power gap to the next best. The most memorable story beats happen in this portion of the game too. The whole game does a great job in treating every era/location as its own character, and they all are amazing, but Zeal is my favorite.

[Anonymous No.9646986]

>>9643721
The director himself said it’s not a direct sequel you brain damaged faggot. He has more ways in it than you do. He has the only say period actually

[Anonymous No.9646990]

>>9643716
Sounds like Kati had far better ideas than anyone who worked on the e original which was infants first rpg dragon quest rip off

[Anonymous No.9646997]

Based Kato skull fucking the original cast and killing them off unceremoniously and making neck ears autsits seethe well into 2023

[Anonymous No.9647034]

>>9646986
>It's not a direct sequel
>But it's a direct continuation of the story and, with the same girl that couldn't be saved, the same villain and the original cast just so it can
>>9646997
>skull fucking the original cast and killing them off unceremoniously
What did Kato mean by this?

[Anonymous No.9647285]

>>9644750
Zoomer faglord; Common knowledge that kato was basically co director for chrono nigger since the 90s. I’ve seen countless interviews that confirmed it too. Kill yourself neckbeard autist. Nobody gives a shit about your fake friends Kato killed off in CC because you’re too much of a genetic abomination to make any irl friends

[Anonymous No.9647292]

Chrono trigger was pretty much Dragon quest easy mode for final faggotry pleb retards

[Anonymous No.9647293]

>>9647285

[Anonymous No.9647324]

>>9646997
>>9647285
Why does Chrono Trigger make contrarians seethe so much?

[Anonymous No.9647404]

>>9644726
>>9644732
Not that anon, in fact I dislike Kato quite a bit, but it is possible he wrote some of those things in Trigger and then retconned them later for a variety of reasons. It could be a) that he simply liked those changes more and didn't care enough about Trigger to even attempt to remain consistent with it, b) that, as someone influenced by existentialist and/or post-modern philosophy, he may have deliberately tried to contradict himself to hammer home the idea that there is no absolute or objective truth, as those people often do because they get off on being esoteric and gay, or c) he could have just done it out of spite. He's said numerous times that working on Chrono Trigger was hell for him, so I'm sure that colored how he felt about the game and it's story/characters/world. Plus, he seems like the exact kind of person who takes glee in spiting his audience.
Not saying any of these scenarios are likely, but they can't be ruled out completely.

[Anonymous No.9647443]

>>9647404
Nope, they definitely cannot. Especially spite for the first game and everyone who liked it. Yet another similarity to Rian Johnson and the movie that killed Star Wars. His obvious post-modernist tendencies can also certainly not be dismissed, and it is evident that he really hated Chrono Trigger and did his best to retcon everything he could, even completely inconsequential stuff like the appearance of Schala's Pendant that Kid has in Cross, or turning the Masamune into a demonic sword and inventing a new heroic sword for the green-haired knight named Glenn instead of having a new demonic sword and the knight dual wielding the Masamune.

Personally, I believe it's a combination of all of these. I believe that Kato was far less influential in writing Trigger than his fanboys want to believe, and his spite grew and festered by the fact that he was not allowed to tell the miserable, pseudointellectual story he wanted to tell. I'm also certain he came to hate the audience when the game proved wildly popular despite the game's story being very, very far from what he wanted, and one of his motivations for writing Cross, if not THE motivation, was his desire to show them, show them all.

[Anonymous No.9647571]

>>9647443
Cross was universally praised and lauded as one of the greatest videogames of all time when it came out. It reviewed better than chrono trigger

What in the actual fuck are you even blathering about

[Anonymous No.9647572]

>>9639729
>>9639912
>>9643964

>Show me one thing
>Headcannon
They literally give you a scene from before FATE split the timeline in two by making Serge the Arbiter, where the events of Radical Dreamers happens you silly autists (who never played the games). That he is indeed Magus is further clarified in the DS release, yes, but it was intended at the time of development as well. That's not a retcon; they didn't redact, replace, or change anything. Seethe, cope, dilate, etc.

[Anonymous No.9647575]

At least cross was unique and had balls

They didn’t even leave crono dead the fucking spineless pussies

[Anonymous No.9647585]

>>9647575
>They didn’t even leave crono dead the fucking spineless pussies
>never beat the game without crono
nice bussy bro

[Anonymous No.9647704]

>>9644758
>>9644756
>>9644752
>>9644750
>>9644743
>>9644737
>>9644732
>>9644726
The amount of seethe and pure copium Cross produces is hilariously insane. You are literally spouting shit you know nothing about trying besmirch Kato's name

[Anonymous No.9647713]

>>9647585
Kato didn't even want to include a way to revive Crono at all, it was his idea that he should die and he wanted it to be permanent but they strong armed a way to revive him. Beating the game without him was merely a compromise

[Anonymous No.9647715]

>>9647704
Nice argument you got there, bro.

[Anonymous No.9647729]

>>9647715
Mindless drivel doesn't warrant a serious response.

[Anonymous No.9647740]

Why can't we get a remaster of the Chrono Trigger short anime?

[Anonymous No.9647743]

>>9647572
radical dreamers did not connect Guile to Magil/Magus in any way. The only thing that connects Guile to magus is chrono trigger DS, which released AFTER Cross. Therefore it's a retcon.

[Anonymous No.9647898]

>>9635260
Tales of Phantasia

[Anonymous No.9647931]

>>9647743
It did though, and that's not what a retcon is. Nothing was altered after the fact. CC established that Radical Dreamers is canon and RD established that Magil=Magus. They just decided not to reveal he's Guile in CC last minute so as not to overshadow Cross' narrative and make players more inclined to use the other 40+ party members. Everyone who was familiar with CT and RD already knew Guile was Magil at the time. The extra content on DS just confirms it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[Anonymous No.9647946]

>>9647704
I know right? That one lolcow Frogfag never fails to make me laugh. They can hate on Based Kato all they want, but how many other writers come back to their stories 20+ years later to clear up things like how Magus became Guile, or to let us know that Lucca is still alive in another dimension

[Anonymous No.9648659]

>>9647572
>who never played the games
Anon, if you actually played and remembered Cross then you'd know that FATE was not the one who split the timeline in two and there are no scenes in Cross from before the split except for when Serge uses the Masamune to go back in time to the orphanage fire. There is no such scene and there is also no room for the events of Radical Dreamers to take place. Crossfags always do this, make up headcanons outright to try and fix their game's numerous plot holes. I can't blame you though, you can't defend that shit if you stick to only what's actually in it.

[Anonymous No.9648662]

>>9647713
>it was his idea that he should die
It was not, the interview was posted above. He was just the first to agree.

[Anonymous No.9648673]

>>9647931
>CC established that Radical Dreamers is canon
It did not
>They just decided not to reveal he's Guile in CC last minute
No, that happened early on. There is literally nothing in the finished game indicating that Guile is in any way connected to Magus or Kid, or even that he has amnesia. Pretending that Guile is Magus just because Kato originally wanted that is just like pretending that Crono really died just because Kato wanted that. Plans change, early drafts have no relevance to the finished story except when the finished story is so bad that you have to grasp at straws to defend it.

>>9647946
>how many other writers come back to their stories 20+ years later
Han shot first

[Anonymous No.9648694]

>>9647571
Chrono Cross sold much less than Chrono Trigger on a system with more than double the users. Word of mouth was fucking atrocious from the beginning. It's also not what I was talking about, my reading-comprehension-challenged friend. I'll try to break it down for you
>Kato is a junior writer for Trigger
>They don't listen to him, the story is very different to what he wanted and he seethes because of that
>Trigger comes out, is wildly popular despite it being very different to what he wanted and he seethes because of that
>He writes Cross to show them, show them all
Nowhere did I mention Cross's reception before you.

>It reviewed
lol
lmao, even

[Anonymous No.9648745]

Kato was right. Chrono trigger was a hack story for simpletons. It just regurgitated dragon quest and ff for the 30th time

>>9648694
Game reviewers were pretty good in those days

Cross has sold over 5 million worldwide and trigger only 3.5

[Anonymous No.9648749]

>Comes back to the thread after 2 days
Manchildren are STILL seething about Chrono Cross
Literally obsessed, it's not even a thread about that game. Give it a rest nigga.

Another, more interesting topic :
Did you guys play Crimson echoes? Did you like it?

[Anonymous No.9648750]

>>9648749
Who the fuck would want to play some fanfic dog shit made by trannies? Fucking murder yourself

[Anonymous No.9648761]

>>9635260
Valkyrie Profile. Came out the same time as cross and is better in every way than that heap of shit riding on a popular game's name recognition.

[Anonymous No.9648762]

>>9648750
You seem mentally healthy

[Anonymous No.9648796]

>>9648749
The ideal way to play Crimson Echoes is vicariously via the dev playthrough with a plugin like "Annotations Restored" enabled: https://www.youtube.com/CEMemorial

[Anonymous No.9649000]

>>9648662
>It was not
it literally was moron.
>-Incidentally, the idea that I had at that time was for Crono to really die, and the others would have to go back in time and enlist a version of Crono from the night before the Fair. Then after the final battle they would have to return him to that point in time and bid him farewell. But that idea was rejected (laughs). They said it had to be a happy ending, so we eventually settled on the story with the clone as it is today.
- Kato
Stop trying to rewrite well known facts

[Anonymous No.9649002]

>>9648673
>Han shot first
Only stunted developed manchildren ever get upset about this btw

[Anonymous No.9649093]

>>9648745
>Cross has sold over 5 million worldwide and trigger only 3.5
Why do crossfags always lie? Or are they too retarded to understand what they're reading?

[Anonymous No.9649112]

>>9648673
>It did not
It absolutely did, anon-who-never-played-the-game. Go watch a let's play of the Chronopolis segment or whatever kids do instead of playing games nowadays
>Nooooo he can't be Magus my headcannon won't allow it!
Refer to pic related here >>9647946
>>9648659
FATE was absolutely the cause of the time crash and everything that happened afterwards you lying, no-game-playing faggot, and Radical Dreamers is absolutely canon. The events are stored in the computer in Chronopolis. The sheer autism required to so retardedly seethe about some little thing for so many years because it triggers your headcannon never ceases to amaze and entertain me

Guile is Magus. Please find a healthier way to cope about this absolute fact.

[Anonymous No.9649113]

>>9649000
>There was also a time during a meeting when the idea of the main character dying came up, and the whole room burst into laughter. I seemed to be the only one who thought "That was a serious suggestion, what's so funny?" and sat looking blank. (laughs) Although at that point Mr Hori did say "Gey, that might be pretty interesting." Incidentally, the idea that I had at that time etc
Post the rest of it. Kato did not propose the idea of Crono dying, he was simply the first to take it seriously before Horii also agreed with the other guy's idea to have Crono die but rejected Kato's idea of having Crono be permadead for the cheap drama. Why do crossfags always lie? Do they expect that no one will call them out?

[Anonymous No.9649123]

>>9649112
>Go watch a let's play of the Chronopolis segment or whatever kids do instead of playing games nowadays
Oh sure, I'm gonna hunt down a segment that simply does not exist, just to debunk yet another crossfag lie. No, post it or concede that you are wrong. It's on you to support your claims for once.
>FATE was absolutely the cause of the time crash
The time crash has nothing to do with the split timeline. The timeline split when Serge was saved and FATE had nothing to do with that, my brain challenged headcanoning friend.
>Radical Dreamers is absolutely canon.
So you keep saying, but you've yet to produce a source that is not your ass. Why can't you support your claims anon? Shouldn't it be easy to prove if it was trur?
>Guile is Magus. Please find a healthier way to cope about this absolute fact.
He is not and has never been Magus in the finished game. Neither is Guile and Magil the same person. Please stop pretending that there's anything supporting that, it's a worse than "Dumbledore was gay all along" tier retcon.

[Anonymous No.9649128]

>>9648749
>Cross is a great game and better than Trigger.
>No, it fucking sucks and here are some reasons why
>NOOOOO, WHY ARE YOU SO OBSESSED ABOUT CROSS? STOP SEETHING ABOUT IT WHEN I BRING IT UP, THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT THAT GAME AND YOU SHOULD LET ME LIE AND HYPE IT UP WITHOUT DISAGREEING

[Anonymous No.9649170]

>>9649112
Guile was originally supposed to be magus but they scrapped it before CC dropped. So canonically its not magus but He’s still in RD though

[Anonymous No.9649176]

>>9649123
Chrono nigger is a cringe shonen game made for literal children. Imagine wasting your adult hours arguing passionately about decyphering children’s shlock

Kill yourself fat sperg

[Anonymous No.9649183]

>>9648761
Cross outsold and reviewed a million times better than Valkyrie profile


It had some of the most 10/10 perfect scores since ocarina of time. More than any final fantasy game even

[Anonymous No.9649242]

>>9649176
t. 15 years old who thinks Cross is deep

[Anonymous No.9649903]

>>9649242
Deeper than chrono nigger. That’s not saying much though. Literally anything is deeper than it

[Anonymous No.9649905]

Chrono niggers story is like if some low iq npc that has never had an inner monologue wrote a videogame

[Anonymous No.9649992]

>>9649113
>There was also a time during a meeting when the idea of the main character dying came up,
This doesn't state that it was no Kato's idea, also way to go trying to besmirch him by calling his idea cheap drama because he had one subtle preference to that idea. If Kato's idea to have Crono die regardless of if he could be resurrected or not was entirely rejected you would've called it cheap drama. Fuck off with this dishonesty

[Anonymous No.9649995]

Guile is literally stated to be Magil and his important role in the story was cut because they didn't want it to overshadow the rest of the cast. How the FUCK are people still denying this? The whole viper manor scenario is literally recreated when he is introduced, it's not subtle at all

[Anonymous No.9650157]

>>9649995
>Guile is literally stated to be Magil
Uh, no?

[Anonymous No.9650246]

>>9635912
That's cute as fuck.

[Anonymous No.9650290]

>>9648673
>It did not
It did. As usual Trigger fanboys embarrass themselves with their utter lack of any clue whatsoever. Now go kvetch some more about the Trigger cast "being killed off" to prove your inability to grasp even the basic plot of a game written for teens.

[Anonymous No.9650310]

Why are you retards still arguing whether Magus is Guile? He's not, but it's even worse if he was. Magus was an asshole who believed that the ends justify the means and dedicated his entire life in getting revenge against Lavos and saving Schala. He was an asshole, but he was our asshole (if you're not the frogfag who always kills him out of spite) and his contributions were necessary to save the world. DS then tells us that he did all this only to make everything worse for everyone, including himself and his beloved sister, and he ended up losing his memories and searching for something important he vaguely remembered he was missing after Schala told him she couldn't be saved. And Cross tells us that after all this, he became a hedonistic two-bit conman who didn't give a crap about anyone other than himself, didn't care about recovering his memories, abandoned the search for that important thing that he had lost, stopped caring about Schala entirely and never exchanged a meaningful word with the sister he did everything for, or interacted with her or her clone in any way.

That's not character assassination, that's ritual character dismemberment. Why the fuck is anyone defending this crap?

[Anonymous No.9650348]

>aah help I am incapable of understanding multiple dimensions
Just stick to Trigger LMAO

[Anonymous No.9650360]

>>9650348
>aah help I am incapable of supporting the game that I like without insulting those that dislike it with every other breath
Crossfags are either manchildren or literal children.

[Anonymous No.9650428]

>>9650360
>complaining about the fruits of hostile ignorance

[Anonymous No.9650483]

>>9647931
You literally ignored me! Radical Dreamers is canon to Cross, yes. Magus is Magil, as confirmed by Radical Dreamers, yes. But there is absolutely nothing in Cross that connects Guile to Magus/Magil. They didn't even remove the shadow that appears when you read Lucca's letter, which is the very least they could have done if they wanted to imply that Guile was Magus at all! But they didn't. Because they wanted nothing in Cross to connect Guile to Magus/Magil.

The only things that connect Guile to Magus are things released after Cross, which makes the continuity RETROACTIVE. So it's a retcon.
>>9648659
>There is no such scene and there is also no room for the events of Radical Dreamers to take place.
Bro there's a terminal in Chronopolis that has the diary of the Serge from Radical Dreamers, and after you examine it your party members say "This diary is evidence of another reality besides the two we know!". Radical Dreamers is very canon, it just stars another Kid/Serge/Magus than the ones we see in Trigger and Cross. This is also obvious because Serge in RD isn't even a bum from a fishing town, he's like a bard or something that falls in with Kid and Magil to pull a thief job.

[Anonymous No.9650487]

>>9650310
You just kind of have to headcanon that the only reason he stuck with Serge/Kid to fight the time devourer at all is because he has a hidden desire to help Schala that not even he knows about, but really nobody in Cross is ever given a good reason to stay because nobody in the 40+ party is ever given a scene where they can explain their motives. It's trying to crowbar in something that really, really needed to be in the game in the presence of nothingness. Cross just needs a remake.

[Anonymous No.9650839]

>>9650157
Uh, yes.

[Anonymous No.9650842]

>>9650290
This was a supposed to be a poignant reveal, of course Cross haters would conveniently forget about it

[Anonymous No.9651078]

>>9650839
Literally where?

[Anonymous No.9651126]

>>9634958
I always really appreciated the irony of 2300 A.D. if you do the mother brain sidequest. The age of man is over but from it's ashes his offspring are to inherit the world, and the the same asshole who fucked it all up for the dinosaurs travels through time to fuck it all up for the machines, only to go back in time and change the outcome, splitting time, so machines inheriting the earth no longer happens in his timeline anyway. You literally just cuck the machine timeline out of existence for a better weapon for Robo or something.

[Anonymous No.9651468]

Despite being made almost a decade later, by a completely different group of people who probably weren't consciously trying to imitate it, the true successor to Chrono Trigger is Growlanser 4 (AKA Wayfarer of Time for the PSP version).
>battles happen on the map without screen transitions
>battles can be avoided with careful maneuvering
>combat has elements of both turn based and real time and takes where the characters are positioned into account
>combine characters' techniques to create multitechs
>absurd amount of different endings
>protagonist is a silent redheaded katana user whose default name starts with the letters C and R
>central plot point is a super advanced ancient civilization
>doesn't really get going until after a sequence where you break out of a prison
>a lot of the characters have sameface but are drawn so well that you don't even care
It just goes on and on. I'd never sleep if I tried to list everything.

[Anonymous No.9651532]

>>9650290
lol
>>9647572
>They literally give you a scene from before FATE split the timeline in two by making Serge the Arbiter, where the events of Radical Dreamers happens you silly autists (who never played the games)
THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU DESCRIBED YOU LYING FUCK! A journal that's supposed to come from a parallel world is not remotely the same as proving that Radical Dreamers is canon, its events took place and they confirm that Magus, Magil and Guile are the same person when it's literally impossible for it to have happened this way.
>prove your inability to grasp even the basic plot of a game written for teens.
Very ironic coming from you. Have you accepted that FATE had nothing to do with the split timeline and there was no scene like the one you said?? I see you quietly choose to ignore every single time you're proven wrong about something in this stupid game that you like so much, but I'm not surprised in the least.

Besides, are we supposed to take everything in those terminals is the gospel truth? Ayla looks remarkably humanlike, considering humans did not exist before Lavos.

[Anonymous No.9651536]

And Lucca did great in inventing the time egg (not the Chrono Trigger, that's Serge and has always been Serge) that saved Crono. Gaspar? Who's that?

[Anonymous No.9651538]

>>9650310
Well said. I guess it is pointless to argue, when Guile being Magus does make everything worse.
>Schala told him she couldn't be saved
picrel
>That's not character assassination, that's ritual character dismemberment
kek

[Anonymous No.9651539]

>>9650483
>Bro there's a terminal in Chronopolis that has the diary of the Serge from Radical Dreamers, and after you examine it your party members say "This diary is evidence of another reality besides the two we know!". Radical Dreamers is very canon, it just stars another Kid/Serge/Magus than the ones we see in Trigger and Cross. This is also obvious because Serge in RD isn't even a bum from a fishing town, he's like a bard or something that falls in with Kid and Magil to pull a thief job.
Anon, that's kind of what I've been getting at all along. "It happened in a parallel world that we do not even see, much less affect or be affected by it" is just a lazy copout, barely more than a cameo, and has no bearing whatsoever in the plot of Cross and whether Magus is Guile.
>>9650487
>You just kind of have to headcanon
Yep, that's true for a ton of things in Cross. You have to headcanon for them to begin to approach making sense. I'm just annoyed by crossfags always pretending that their headcanon was actually in the game.
>Cross just needs a remake.
It got a remaster and that's more than it deserved. Trigger deserved a real sequel, one where Magus was the protagonist and his main goal was to find his sister, who had not mutated from a demure blue-haired princess to a blonde, foul-mouthed australian pirate. They could even keep his amnesia to justify starting him at L1 and revealing the plot piecemeal, but Magus really needed to be the protagonist of Trigger's sequel.
>>9651468
I had never heard about that game before, but you have piqued my interest and convinced me to check it out.

[Anonymous No.9651609]

By the way, since everything in Chronopolis is the complete truth, I guess this means that humans are a blight upon nature, especially the fishermen who lived in tropical paradise in harmony with the environment, with no industry or pollution in sight. The long-nosed steampunk, smog-spewing dwarves who invaded and genocided the fairies and despoiled their natural spring were absolutely right to blame the humans for ruining the environment, and the fairies were absolutely right to blame the humans when they got genocided and their home ruined by dwarves.

And this is something that is completely self-contained in Cross, but crossfags will keep pretending that the only criticisms of their game are related to how it treated the protagonists of Trigger, when it's actually completely retarded and preachy from beginning to end.

[Anonymous No.9651616]

>>9651532
>conflating replies
The recording does not only show the journal, but literal conversations. RD IS CANON. If you'd pay attention, Fargo even spells it out for you how that can be. But that's part of the basic plot. Which Trigger fanboys are unable to grasp.

[Anonymous No.9651623]

>>9651616
>Barge into a conversation
>Reply with something different than what was being discussed
>Cry GOTCHA
Nice to see you ignored everything else you immature autistic fuck. I'm sorry that you're so invested in a game that everyone with more than two braincells can realize is retarded, pseudointellectual trash that pretends to be deep and meaningful.

[Anonymous No.9652214]

>>9651609
In both of the dimensional realities shown in Cross, yes. Humans are a blight. How is that even an argument?

[Anonymous No.9652219]

>>9651539
>there's no such scene!!!!!!
>okay, so there is a scene, but... BUT IT'S A LAZY COP-OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111eleventy-one!!!!1
lol

[Anonymous No.9652231]

>>9651536
>Gaspar? Who's that?
Some dude from a reality other than the two Cross takes place in.

[Anonymous No.9652259]

>>9651532
>FATE had nothing to do with the split timeline
This is accurate.

>Magus, Magil and Guile are [not] the same person
Also accurate.

>Radical Dreamers is [not] canon
This is not accurate.

RD happened. CC happened. CT happened. It's just that not all of them happened /in the same reality/. I'm not even sure any of them happened in the same reality. I mean... much of CT and CC share a reality, but not all of it. Think of it: in a game where you literally change reality based on your in-game actions (leaving Robo to grow a forest for Fiona; saving not-Arale's mum's legs, forcing the Black Omen into and ultimately out of existence etc) and multiple endings, are you really going to try to say that there is one, singular objective reality? Many of CT's events happened in the reality/timeline CC exists in, sure, but certainly not all of them. It's that simple.

Look, I'm no fan of the series, but I've played and finished each entry and gotten all endings and done all optional content and the only way for any of it to make any sense at all is if you stop looking at it with Zelda-fan like autism, demanding that all entries in the series occur in a singular, linear reality. That ruined the Zelda series and if you keep doing this shit, it'll ruin Chrono beyond the shit pile it's already become. Enjoy each entry (or don't) as it's own tangent.

[Anonymous No.9652274]

>>9634958
I liked all the eras except prehistory.

[Anonymous No.9652410]

>>9652259
>Enjoy each entry (or don't) as it's own tangent.
This. Just pretend the ones you dislike never happened. Yes, it's headcanon bullshit, but these are all works of fiction anyway, so who cares? I'd hate almost every game that's part of a series if I didn't do that.

[Anonymous No.9652835]

>>9650310
>And Cross tells us that after all this, he became a hedonistic two-bit conman who didn't give a crap about anyone other than himself, didn't care about recovering his memories, abandoned the search for that important thing that he had lost, stopped caring about Schala entirely and never exchanged a meaningful word with the sister he did everything for, or interacted with her or her clone in any way.
This is an extremely long winded sentence that amounts to a load of crap. In what way does Cross communicates this to us? Basically it just amounted to the devs changing there mind about Guiles role some time into the story but if we are to believe he was Magus, he had obviously lost his memories at that point. It doesn't mean any of the weird ass long winded insult you wrote there

[Anonymous No.9652840]

>>9651539
>Trigger deserved a real sequel, one where Magus was the protagonist and his main goal was to find his sister
minus him being the protagonist, that is literally what this game is

[Anonymous No.9652850]

>>9651609
Yes lets just conveniently ignore the fact that they enslaved and acted bigoted towards demi-humans, AND hunted the last Hydra to extinction, AND caused a war were tons of innocent people suffered/were killed, AND displaced and wiped out the Draconians after intruding on their home(technically not there fault but still happened). Yet even with all this baggage the game is trying to make a case for humanity in spite of all of the wrong they committed and it's clearly spelled out by the rest of the game and yet people STILL get hung over the pessimistic message from Chronopolis which is explicit made to be something you're supposed to overcome by the end.
I don't know why Triggerfags need literally everything to be rainbows and unicorns and for everyone to sing kumbaya, it's fucking ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.9652853]

God I hate what Chrono Cross does to people.

[Anonymous No.9652860]

[Anonymous No.9652863]

>>9652835
>>9652850
wehn we said that lol cross defenders need to invent lies to defend a forgotten 20 something old game, thats beyond sad...the future resufed to change indeed

[Anonymous No.9652867]

>>9652840
No, it's a game about burgling a mansion. Kato didn't even intend for it to be a sequel when he began making it.

[Anonymous No.9652879]

>>9634958
I fucking loved Zeal. A super advance ancient floating island is such a cool idea. Imagine living somewhere like that. It'd be like a dream.

[Anonymous No.9652979]

>>9652863
>lies
lol
>forgotten
lmao even
Typical Trigger faggot asshurt by Cross existence TO THIS DAY

[Anonymous No.9653025]

>>9635732
This game is so underrated

[Anonymous No.9653293]

>>9651609
The central plot point of Trigger was the same though you doofus. Lavos is the future version of humanity's worst anti environmental traits from a 90s Japanese viewpoint. That's actually the plot to most 90s jrpgs

[Anonymous No.9653306]

Please visit this link its extremely important pastebin.com/svsfjW1s

[Anonymous No.9653368]

>>9635205
This but I'm a fag and have a dumb reason
I particularly like 12,000 BC after Zeal's fall, where the world becomes largely flooded and and the earthbound and enlightened alike come together in the last settlement to try to persevere together. I feel like Corridors of Time, instead of being a song that emphasizes the enlightenment and greatness of Zeal, instead becomes something of a dirge for a civilization that declined and fell apart. It makes me think of times in our own history where things like that may have happened, where the social order just collapses and people need to come together to survive.

[Anonymous No.9653914]

>>9635260
xenogears. a lot of the chrono trigger guys worked on it in terms of gameplay. same composer too. absolute kino, don't let all the retards who whine about disc 2 convince you otherwise

[Anonymous No.9654187]

>>9653293
>Lavos is the future version of humanity's worst anti environmental traits from a 90s Japanese viewpoint.
lmao, do Crossfags relly believe that crap?