Dragon Quest II (NES)

[Anonymous No.9633727]

Is it really that hard?

[Anonymous No.9633730]

Are posting off a fucking smart dishwasher or some shit? No? Then download it and an emulator, play it, and see. Moron.

[Anonymous No.9633732]

>>9633727
Not in terms of combat. It's absolutely full of obscure cryptic bullshit designed to railroad you into buying a strategy guide.

[Anonymous No.9633734]

>>9633727
when you get the boat its kinda dumb as you can go anywhere and enemy levels are all over the place.
outside of the crests being kinda obtuse to get in the original, really its the final area that's brutally difficult.

[Anonymous No.9633743]

>>9633727
In the original, after you get the Prince of Cannock to before you get the princess of Moonbrooke, there are some enemies (mandrill looking fuckers) that hit like a truck so Cannock will die pretty easily, after that the game gets fairly challenging without being unfair until Road to Rhone onwards that is, where the game just says fuck you asshole and throws you hard as fuck enemies who hit hard have hard hitting spells and if i am not mistaken the monkey looking ones (not relation to the mandrills ones) can cast dead spells, because time constraints the developers didn't have time to properly program the last area so it become infamous for being hard, the remakes balanced things out though.

[Anonymous No.9633746]

>Find the grandson of the boss from the first game
>he asks you to join him
>Say no obviously and he just tells you to fuck off
>say yes and you don't actually join him, he gives you crucial information needed to progress

[Anonymous No.9633749]

>>9633743
Also as other anons mentioned the game have some cryptic shit going on with the shards, specially the sun one which is found on a specific tile on a southeastern shrine.
I spends a whole month trying to get into Mother and Child Island on TLoZ:WW back when I didn't have internet in the mid 2000, so i can see myself exploring the whole DQ2 map with the flute to find the damn shard desu.

[Anonymous No.9633787]

>>9633727
was it 1 or 2 where even a max level max geared party could just get 1 rounded in a surprise attack with no chance to even input a command?

[Anonymous No.9633828]

While it is a little known fact that a good half of the enemies in Dragon Warrior 2 hand out more exp/gold than their counterparts in Dragon Quest 2, what nobody knowns (and which isn't documented yet) is that the stats of all enemies were also rebalanced for the western version.

Every enemy in Dragon Warrior 2 is easier. Whether that is attack, def or agility, values, and I think in some cases even HP and probability to use this or that move (I'd have to check back to make sure of that). In most cases there are subtle changes to most values.

So when you see people who have played Dragon *Warrior* 2 and hear them cry about
>waaah this game is too hard! I mean the end game is hard how does that make sense??!! Look even the devs said it was too hard!
They have absolutely no right to use the dev stuff as an excuse because they were already playing a version in which the difficulty had been adressed to begin with.

Dilate.

[Anonymous No.9633842]

>>9633787
While it is a technical possibility to get ambushed and OHKO'd from a death spell in the late game, it is very unlikely to happen when you reached the level gap. The higher your level, the less likely you will be to get ambushed, and the less likely death spells will be likely to hit.

>>9633749
>specially the sun one which is found on a specific tile on a southeastern shrine.

There is an NPC that tells you exactly where the shard is. That and you get the flute to help you locate the shards.That and the shrine is likely to be a place you visit when you use the warps.

As long as you pay attention and take notes when NPCs say things, you shouldn't have too much trouble.
Personally I love this stuff in the game, these adventure game mechanics are exactly what makes the game feel organic and alive, rather than having a game-y world with a tired "area is composed of one town, one dungeon, complete that and you're allowed to go the next area and repeat" routine.
In DQ2 towns work as hubs you come back to
in between several quests, and their inhabitants often provide clues that will be needed for things much later on; that and there is often a reason to come back to X or Y location later on. This makes the world feel alive and enhances the feel of adventure, something many other RPGs (DQ sequels included) fail at because they want to cater to the part of the audiance that just wanted to be hand holded through an adventure game.

[Anonymous No.9634003]

>>9633828

Huh, interesting. Maybe this helps explain why my sister and I never had the slightest problem with the game as kids.

The other main part of the explanation is that we had maps and stuff that had been provided by... either the game package itself, or Nintendo Power, I guess? So that solved all of the mapping challenges and some of the treasure-hunt puzzles for us, but we still had to fight the monsters ourselves. And a third part, I suppose, is that we were kids with kids' low standards for game design so we actually enjoyed grinding somehow.

(In case some retarded anon thinks I'm scoffing at the idea that the game is difficult and wants to yell at me: No, anon, I'm aware that my stupid kid self cheated and that the game is harder if the player does not cheat. I'm just saying the monsters didn't seem to be unfairly strong, that's all.)

[Anonymous No.9634050]

>>9634003
Both the JPN and US manual have a world map and some hints

https://www.woodus.com/den/gallery/graphics/dw2nes/manual/dq2fc_manual_jpn.pdf

https://www.woodus.com/den/games/dw2nes/dw2nes_manual.pdf

Although the map is quite small especially in the US manual; however at the end it says you can make a request by mail to recieve a detailed map for free. I'd love to see that map now

[Anonymous No.9634158]

>>9633743
I’m currently playing DW2.
There are some enemies in games that you can just tell are trouble. As soon as I saw a baboon, I knew it would be one of those enemies. And then four baboons approached and I truly learned.

[Anonymous No.9634230]

>>9633727
Do you marry the girl?

[Anonymous No.9634245]

>>9633842
>There is an NPC that tells you exactly where the shard is
Which npc? Only clue i remember for that shard was to look on hot places.

[Anonymous No.9634251]

>>9634245
There is also another guy telling you clues as to where to use the flute

[Anonymous No.9634253]

>>9633828
Even so the Warrior version is still pretty hard, even in the remakes the last part of the game can be pretty challenging If you aren't prepared.

[Anonymous No.9634256]

>>9634253
Sure, just don't give me any of that "even the devs admitted it was too hard" bs, because they did adrdess that for the western release (most changes were kept for the remakes, unlike the changes made to DW3)

[Anonymous No.9634267]

>>9634251
That's the guy, i always thought the hot area was the sea volcano, and yes i knew about the flute.
Sugiyama interview by Satoshi Tajiri.

[Anonymous No.9634280]

>>9634267

>>9634256
I will give you shit because the barely addressed the issues, now cope.

[Anonymous No.9634283]

>>9634280

[Anonymous No.9634285]

>>9634280
You don't even know the extent of what was done and you already decided it was "barely addressed" before knowing.

[Anonymous No.9634289]

>>9634283

[Anonymous No.9634292]

>>9634289

>>9634285
Yes.

[Anonymous No.9634298]

>this is the DQ game that's responsible for Pokemon and Mother

[Anonymous No.9634301]

>>9634289
>>9634292

[Anonymous No.9634309]

>>9634245
A NPC in Cantlin.

[Anonymous No.9634314]

>>9634298
Literally every JRPG copied DQ2

[Anonymous No.9634325]

>>9634245
A NPC in Cantlin says:
"Let us wish the warrior well! May the light be thy strength! Thou may go and search. From Tantegel Castle travel 70 leagues to the south and 40 to the east."

[Anonymous No.9634328]

>>9634314
How is Megami Tensei which also came out in 1987 like Dragon Quest II?

[Anonymous No.9634329]

>>9634328
One was released in early 1987 and the later in late 1987. It's fair to assume they took more inspiration from DQ1.

[Anonymous No.9634330]

>>9634329
If anything, Megami Tensei owes its existence to Wizardry.

[Anonymous No.9634335]

What's with the early Miyazaki-style costume designs? Why do they wear tank helmets and goggles?

[Anonymous No.9634338]

>>9634330
Which is the same for Dragon Quest. If every JRPG owes its existence to DQ1 and DQ 1 clearly owes its existence to Wizardry, so does every JRPG.
In fact, Horii used to be part of a Wizardry club and bought a computer(I think it was Apple ][) just to play it. They took the overview gameplay inspiration from Ultima, however.
There is this old manga telling the whole DQ making of story.
Also, there is a tweet from Horii saying how happy he is for finally meeting Robert Woodhead:
https://twitter.com/YujiHorii/status/1603218456257523712

[Anonymous No.9634343]

>>9634335
That is Toriyama's old style. Before he made everything like DBZ which was what people asked for when he would draw characters for games.

[Anonymous No.9634350]

>>9634343
I know what early Toriyama looks like, costumes still look more like Miyazaki to me.

[Anonymous No.9634360]

>>9634338
>There is this old manga telling the whole DQ making of story.
Has it been scanlated yet? I remember seeing it in this old NES site.
http://atarihq.com/tsr/books/fc/dqm.html

[Anonymous No.9634374]

>>9634360
It was even already translated.
https://mangadex.org/title/9d751491-a72d-41ae-8d95-3cb420a9d582/the-road-to-dragon-quest

[Anonymous No.9634390]

>>9634374
One will protect you, the rest will kill you.

[Anonymous No.9634394]

>>9634390
>>>9634390
Nakamura. I love Door Door.

[Anonymous No.9634410]

>>9634298
>this is the DQ game that's responsible for Pokemon
Only for the trading function because Tajiri was jealous that a friend scored two Mysterious Hats from monster drops and he couldn't even get one.

[Anonymous No.9634464]

>>9634390
>all these people are ancient or dead now
time is brutal

[Anonymous No.9634474]

>>9634464
I'm pretty sure they are all alive.

[Anonymous No.9634525]

>>9634335
Probably just ripped off Nausicaa.
>>9634474
Sugiyama bros... we should tell him...

[Anonymous No.9634526]

>>9634390
I choose Golgo 13 on the bottom, duh.

[Anonymous No.9634534]

>Wizardy
Boy, I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder.

[Anonymous No.9634539]

>>9634256
>unlike the changes made to DW3
What changes were made to DW3?

[Anonymous No.9634561]

>>9634534
How did these retards mistranslate the name again when it is in the cover?

[Anonymous No.9634564]

>>9634525
No. Is he? Fuck.

[Anonymous No.9634579]

>>9634539
Some enemies hand out more exp and gold.
I beat other stats were changed too I'd have to check on that after I'm done with 2

[Anonymous No.9634595]

Someone orgasmed.

[Anonymous No.9634608]

>>9634564
To be fair he was 90 years old and had a great life despite being a piece of shit (don't care about his politics, but he was a JASRAC turbo jew).

[Anonymous No.9634636]

>>9633727
I'm about the play the SFC version of this... I was pleased with DQ1, the dragon and golem were actually kind of hard battles.

[Anonymous No.9634660]

>>9633732
Only if you're mentally retarded.

[Anonymous No.9634668]

>>9634230
She's your sister I believe.

[Anonymous No.9634701]

>>9634230
The female playable character is not a love interest.
All of the playable characters in DQ2 are related to each other.
She is a love interest in the non-canon fan-made sequel 魔王軍へようこそ4. Good luck getting her ending though, that game is even harder than DQ2.

[Anonymous No.9634789]

>>9634636
Based. The SFC ports are great.

[Anonymous No.9634974]

>>9634374
Interesting read, I had seen this doc which is another take on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0rRgdQ1kK0

but the manga is more complete, ,and talks about some things the doc doesn't. Although the contrary is also true as the manga doesn't mention the magazine publisher who put Enix and Toriyama in contact probably because it's a competitive publisher (and some takes on some things are a bitt different too).

At least now I know why DQ8 added bingo of all things.

[Anonymous No.9635031]

>>9634350
Ancient advanced civilizations were super popular in the 70s and early 80s in Japanese pop culture. So even fantasy series would have odd anachronistic stuff from time to time.

[Anonymous No.9635036]

I love Dragon Quest so much bros

At least 1 through 5 + 8

[Anonymous No.9635041]

>>9634330
yes but the question is, would Megami Tensei had been made at all without DQ... Not to mention that while it is definitely a clone of Wizardry, it has that in common of making the gameplay more accessible for console audiances

[Anonymous No.9635047]

>>9634314
I'd argue they copy DQ3 more. The stereotypical JRPG hero looks more like Loto than they do the Prince of Midenhall.

[Anonymous No.9635054]

>>9635047
DQ2 started a lot of tropes carried on in many RPGs though. The character archetypes, having to collect numerous magical key items as a goal throughout the entire game, the boat, etc

[Anonymous No.9635059]

>>9633727
and no, it's not that hard as long as you play the US version. It's challenging but as it should be. You will need to grind in some cases, it was to be expected coming from DQ1, but usually 30-60mins of grinding is enough to set you up to continue your journey.
Sometimes you need to backtrack in the middle of a dungeon to go heal up, but that's how you know you're playing a good RPG, and there are items to speed up that process like the wing of wyvern which you should make sure to always keep one of at all times.

[Anonymous No.9635061]

>>9634564
The end of September last year.
There was a sticky, music, and everything.

[Anonymous No.9635065]

>>9635041
That's basically the whole of it. MegaTen might have come out on the MSX instead of the Famicom, but that's about it.

[Anonymous No.9635292]

>>9633727
Just run from everything and grind for 20 hours at the very end.

[Anonymous No.9635546]

>>9635065
It did came out on the MSX. But was a completely different game and Atlus just help develop it.

[Anonymous No.9635578]

>>9633743
>I'm getting real tired of this monkey business.

[Anonymous No.9635898]

I got tired of grinding muddy hands for hours near the end and abused savestates to put all the RNG in my favor to just finish the game already.
Fuck how any enemy with sacrifice can instantly wipe your entire party no matter what you do, and fuck that the final boss can randomly full heal himself.

[Anonymous No.9636523]

>>9633730
>you shouldnt discuss games on a gaming forum

[Anonymous No.9636830]

>>9636523
The phrase "there's no such thing as a stupid question" has set us back hundreds of years.

[Anonymous No.9636848]

Are you able to play as an old man protagonist, preferably a mage, in any of these games? I'm pushing 29 and can no longer be assed to play through an rpg as an annoying sixteen year-old for the umpteenth time. I love Japanese games most of all, but I get tired of their odd obsession with teenagers. I heard it's because over there you can't do anything fun or adventurous once you leave college, which is such a hideously depressing thought.
Yes, I can suspend disbelief and the PC doesn't have to be exactly like me, I just would like to play a jarpig for once where you can actually roleplay and be an old wizard (or whatever else), and I think dq has the most appealing art of any jrpg I've seen, so it would be the series I'd hope would do this.

[Anonymous No.9636872]

>>9636848
The mage in DQ looks like Roshi, you can put him first in your party and pretend he's the protagonist.

[Anonymous No.9637463]

this thread convinced me to give the game a go in FCEUX emulator

[Anonymous No.9638159]

>>9635054
You're both right. DQ2 is the primary MECHANICAL influence, while DQ3 is the primary VISUAL influence. More people played 3 first, so that will always influence how JRPGs look, but DQ2 set up most of the tropes.

[Anonymous No.9638174]

>>9636848
The first Fushigi no Dungeon was pretty much a DQ4 spin-off where you play as Torneko trying to farm cool gear for his shop.

[Anonymous No.9638181]

>>9638174
is it fun?

I need to fill my DQ needs and the only main one I haven't played is 9 (excluding 10) and I don't like the look of it. I've played pretty much every version of every DQ otherwise, at least the translated ones. I'd play DQ2 on MSX if I could.

[Anonymous No.9638329]

Considering that an anon here played through the entire game with just the Princess, I'd say it's not that hard.

[Anonymous No.9638341]

>>9634668
Cousin. The party descended from the hero the first game, who founded three kingdoms, and handed each to one of his children. A generation or two later, you've got the protagonists of II, each coming from one of those kingdoms.

[Anonymous No.9638460]

>>9634050

Haha no that's not what I'm talking about. We had a big folded-up poster thingy with a chart of all the items on one side and dungeon maps on the other. I think.

...Okay yeah here's an eBay auction that's selling some stuff for DW1 and DW2 (I recognize it all):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125649494921
That auction didn't include a photo of the other side of the DW2 poster, so here's that:
https://www.woodus.com/den/gallery/graphics/dw2nes/poster/dw2nes_poster_side2.png

So yeah when I said we cheated on puzzles and dungeon mazes, I meant it.

[Anonymous No.9638471]

>>9638460
I need those things in my life now.

[Anonymous No.9638497]

>>9634158
>There are some enemies in games that you can just tell are trouble.

[Anonymous No.9638501]

>>9638471

I feel like I remember that DW1 Explorer's Handbook having some nice drawings in it that I liked as a kid? Maybe it was something else though. Anyway, $75 and it's all yours right?

[Anonymous No.9638503]

>>9638341
sister or cousin, she's fair game as long as you remember to keep a concubine around (in case of Down Syndrome or incompletely formed heart valves or whatever)

[Anonymous No.9639072]

>>9638329
Remember the struggle of Elani!!

[Anonymous No.9639102]

>>9638181
Is the MSX version different? I hate that all the guides only tell you which English version is the best. Even if I will never play them I like seeing port comparisons of the untranslated stuff.

[Anonymous No.9639109]

>>9636848
The entire concept of Dragon Quest is literally "Wizardry for little kids too young for Wizardry".

[Anonymous No.9639112]

Yeah. It's difficult because both of your party members are pretty weak, not near as bad as Mother 1 though. On top of that you have a stupid combat system where sometimes enemies are considered groups which causes battles to go on longer/you take more damage because you can't specifically focus fire on monsters.

Then the game opens up once you get the party and it becomes a treasure hunt across a huge map that has a high encounter rate, VERY slow movement speed (even when you get access to a ship), and no map despite most of the world covered in water and several of the key items are found IN the ocean.

Then you get the vague hints and some things I just have no clue how people would solve on purpose. Despite all that the game is sick, but I didn't like what they did with the commands on the menu.

[Anonymous No.9639120]

Are there any other JRPGs like this one, where the large map is used for exploration/treasure hunting unlike FF games where they just house dungeons?

I'm nearing the end of 2 and it's really cool. Frustrating, but such an experience. Are the other DQ games like this? The only other DQ game I played isn't retro and it fucking sucked (11).

[Anonymous No.9639126]

>>9639120
DQ3 does, but almost every DQ after pretty much goes the way of Final Fantasy and only uses the map as filler between dungeons.

[Anonymous No.9639416]

>>9638341
Four kingdoms, technically. One of his descendants is ruling the kingdom of the first game. He's just too chickenshit to join his three cousins.

[Anonymous No.9639447]

>>9633727
Pretty hard, but otoh it's literally impossible to make it though DQ1 without being cucked

[Anonymous No.9639452]

>>9639447
The best you can do is pretend you were going to do what she said anyway.

[Anonymous No.9639456]

>>9639416
Ironically, the descendant of the villain of the first game is far more helpful.

[Anonymous No.9639464]

>>9639447
Fortune smiles upon thee, for thou art lookin good

[Anonymous No.9639676]

>>9639126
Well damn. At least I got DQ3 to look forward to.

[Anonymous No.9639720]

>enemies start casting insta-death spells
fml straight up senpai

[Anonymous No.9639738]

>>9639120
Yeah, Shell Monsters Story on Famicom

[Anonymous No.9639753]

should I play the NES versions or the SNES remakes?

[Anonymous No.9639787]

>>9639753
yeah, you should

[Anonymous No.9640136]

>>9639753
All the SNES versions version decrease difficulty. The SNES translation of 2 is still glitchy (I got garbled graphics in the volcano dungeon and stepping on some tiles would teleport me out of the dungeon).

> and no map despite most of the world covered in water and several of the key items are found IN the ocean.

The map comes with the manual.

[Anonymous No.9640137]

>>9639753
All the SNES versions version decrease difficulty. The SNES translation of 2 is still glitchy (I got garbled graphics in the volcano dungeon and stepping on some tiles would teleport me out of the dungeon).

>>9639112
> and no map despite most of the world covered in water and several of the key items are found IN the ocean.

The map comes with the manual.

[Anonymous No.9641362]

>>9639447
You can skip saving the princess if you know where to find the token.

[Anonymous No.9641367]

>>9641362
Does the ending account for the princess being still missing?

[Anonymous No.9641424]

>>9641367
Yes. She's not present and her lines of dialogue are skipped.

[Anonymous No.9641756]

>>9639753
The NES version with delocalized patch

[Anonymous No.9643348]

>>9633828
Any source on your pile of horse shit there?

[Anonymous No.9643352]

>>9634285
You post this as if you know any more, are you one of the fucking devs or just a masturbating weeb?

[Anonymous No.9643381]

>>9643348
The source is me checking the game code coupled with existing dissassembly and documentation to help (though I don't trust the dissassembly too much because external docs that come with it talk about things which aren't in the game at all, must be a romhack or something)

Example, Big Slug data in the Japanese version
08 00 03 01 04 0B 06 00 07 00 00 00 00 00

Big Slug data in the US version
08 00 03 02 03 09 06 00 07 00 00 00 00 00

So on top of the exp given being changed from 01 to 02 (already a known thing easily checked by playing or checking guides), the attack value was changed from 0B to 09, losing 2 points.

Pretty much every enemy has changes like that, some more substantial than that too.

I'll document it all one of these days, but it takes time; and I intend to check up on other things too like probability for enemies to use this or that spell or to drop items etc

>>9643352
>know more than the devs

The "we didn't have time to properly test and balance the game" excuse was from a Japanese interview, thus talking about the Japanese version. One should also take into account that they spent one month and a half (november/december 1986) doing nothing but debugging and balancing the game. That's a lot of time. The game was delayed for that purpose specifically.
The fact is, making RPGs hard and require grinding was a norm then, which as a whole gradually decreased with time (and the US version is from 1990, thus the adjustements)

[Anonymous No.9643412]

>>9643381
>actually posting code as source
Every anon should be like you. Has the Japanese version of DQ II been translated? I'd like to try it in "hard mode" but it would be annoying to refer to a guide the whole game since I haven't memorized everything.
I know people have done this for the first one.

[Anonymous No.9643420]

>>9643412
I don't think so, there are only a couple of romhacks that change the graphical changes that were done for the US version and some of the text I think.
Maybe try playing using retroarch's AI translation tool, you press a button and the screen gets translated, but it doesn't always work well.

When I'm done I plan on making a romhack that reverts the balance changes in the US version, make it compatible with the hacks that also revert graphical and text changes. This way anyone could make the version he wants.
Imo the US version is superior because of the added intro and title screen and the ability to save.

[Anonymous No.9643837]

>>9643420
Don't waste your time with any of that shit. Just import the script from the English version into the Japanese version.

[Anonymous No.9643851]

>>9643837
That would take considerably more time and effort and I don't speak Japanese. + the US version has the intro (the whole Moonbroke incident, which is crucial to the princess' backstory and figuring out the puzzle related to her), the better title screen and the ability to save

I'm pretty sure the US version also fixed a handful of glitches. Famitsu and Famimaga showed tons of glitches for the game that I have never heard of.

[Anonymous No.9643867]

>>9638460
>the kid's sloppy handwriting on the map

[Anonymous No.9644191]

>>9633828
>>9633842
>>9643381
Thanks anon, you’ve inspired me to try Dragon Warrior 2. I always took to heart that it was too flawed a game to make it worthwhile but now it seems more intriguing.

It seems the internet is full of know it alls that don’t know as much as they think they do. Even the idea that being a higher level makes the Road to Rhone more survivable. Never heard that before it’s always le virtually impossible.

I managed DQ 3/4 back in the day but missed DQ2.

[Anonymous No.9644260]

>>9639447

[Anonymous No.9644286]

>>9639464
kek

[Anonymous No.9644306]

>>9641424
there are three very slightly different endings
-Princess already saved
-Princess not saved
-Rescuing the Princess on your way back

[Anonymous No.9645745]

>>9644191
Most people also don't know how to avoid Gold Batboons casting Sacrifice.
They can only cast it if their current HP is less than or equal to 25% of their max HP. Only put them in that range if you know you will kill them before their next action.

[Anonymous No.9646000]

>>9645745
I had read about this, at first I thought it was an exploit but now that I think about it, it makes sense. The baboon is giving its life to save its friends, it’s only gonna do this if is about to die. It would have been cool if they added a hint about this sort of behaviour. I think a lot of people especially children weren’t observant enough and just assumed it was random

[Anonymous No.9646032]

>>9639447
What do you mean? How does she cuck you?

[Anonymous No.9646047]

>>9633727
Great art, shitty game. Not much story to be had and the combat is boring as fuck

[Anonymous No.9646183]

Thread theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTXIWVPvz0Q

[Anonymous No.9646423]

>>9645745
That's still pretty unavoidable unless you look up their exact HP. Then you also have fucking Pazuzu who will cast it as well and make you have to redo his boss fight.

[Anonymous No.9646447]

>>9634325
In the NES version? I have no memory of that.

[Anonymous No.9646454]

>>9646423
>unless you look up their exact HP.

>he doesn't memorize an approximate amount of HP each enemy has to be as efficient as possible in combat

Do you even Dragon Quest? This is why I say auto-targetting contributed to people playing badly.

Also you make it sound like one cast of Twhack/Sacrifice is going to wipe out your entire team every time, which isn't how it goes at all. As long as the prince of Cannock is alive you can revive others too; and you should keep your leaf of the world tree for reviving him if he dies.

People make a big deal out of this whole thing, and yeah it can be a bit shitty if you really are unlucky, but at the same time dying makes you lose zero progress at that point (money is useless), the save/heal point you restart from is near and it doesn't take long to get back to where you were once you know the way, and there are few random encounters in the final dungeon (iirc some floors don't even have any at all)

[Anonymous No.9646478]

>>9646454
>he doesn't memorize an approximate amount of HP each enemy has to be as efficient as possible in combat
First off, enemies in DQ have a range of HP, something with 100 HP isn't always going to have that amount when you encounter it, you could encounter two of the same enemy but one will die earlier because it had 92 HP while the other had 103, the same is true for the amount of gold that enemies drop. This makes it especially difficult to try and not trigger a 25% range.
Secondly, I'm skeptical of the 25% HP thing even being true because from what I could find, one source says its 1/3 HP and another says its a remake addition and doesn't specify a threshold for "low" HP.
>Also you make it sound like one cast of Twhack/Sacrifice is going to wipe out your entire team every time
Did you not play DQ2 on NES? Sacrifice aka Kamikazee is a 100% guaranteed full party wipe, there is no chance of it failing, you just instantly lose. The same is true for when you have Cannock use it, although some enemies have the blessing of being immune to instant death.

[Anonymous No.9646483]

>>9646454
>>9646478
God damnit, now you triggered my ptsd about seeing those shitheads cast sacrifice and before the textbox even finishes typing and before our HP drop to 0, my entire screen goes red, signaling that I'm already dead.

[Anonymous No.9646852]

>>9646454
>he doesn't memorize an approximate amount of HP each enemy has to be as efficient as possible in combat
Not everyone is this autistic.

[Anonymous No.9646907]

>>9646852
Have fun hitting air again and again and losing HP because of it then

No wonder people cry about enemies casting spells if they're unable to kill them efficiently before they do

[Anonymous No.9646981]

>>9646478
Pretty sure the Batboons' Sacrifice comes totally at random in the original game, but is changed in remakes to be only used when they're near-death.

[Anonymous No.9647037]

>>9646981
>>9646478
I just tried it (US NES version, though I also have saves at the end of the GBC and SNES versions somewhere) and I spent like 30-40 turns with the Batboons at full health, they never used Sacrifice.

But after I hit them twice with the princess for 60-65HP total on one of them, they used Sacrifice after 3-4 turns (I did the whole process twice)

>>9646478
>Sacrifice aka Kamikazee is a 100% guaranteed full party wipe

Yeah I had that confused with the Frostburn's attack. In my playthrough it was usually the Frostburns that killed me, and that has a much lower chance of success, I never had much trouble with the Batboons, and with the above experiment it seems they're really unlikely to use Sacrifice. Even if you leave them at low hp they're not guaranteed to use Sacrifice.

[Anonymous No.9647045]

>>9646478
>skeptical of the 25% HP thing
I remembered it as 1/3 too but my notes I found during my playthrough 2 years ago said 25%. I figure I pulled it from the GFAQs board or RHDN. I stand by the claim in DW2 NES they will not cast it unless you cross SOME threshold; either 1/3 or 1/4. I did the ~35? to 50 grind at Rhone and don't remember eating the spell except for one case where I messed up my rhythm. I definitely had prolonged battles with them. I'd keep one alive to take the time to heal up my party with the healing shields because they're inconsequential monsters otherwise.
You're right about monsters having variable HP but I don't think it's enough to really matter. You don't need to know their exact HP. You just need to know they need softened to a state where your party can reliably gun them down in one turn.
>>9646423
I suspect Pazuzu is subject to the same threshold. In the same notes I have a list of monster actions and frequencies and the only Sacrifice entry was asterisked with that situation. Not that it really helps because he's beefy enough that I don't think you can rush him down before the threshold anyway.

[Anonymous No.9647145]

I just checked the code (again, US NES version) and whenever Gold Batboons attempts to do Sacrifice, it checks its remaining HP and compares it to value 1C, which equals 28 in decimal; and proceeds to fuck off if the value is higher.
28 being 25% of 112, the Gold Batboon's max HP value when it spawns (as stated HP may vary), so it's not really 25% of its health, but 25% of its max possible health.

One interesting thing I'm not sure I fully understand however is that if you have 2 Gold Batboons, it checks both enemies HP values. I *think* what happens is that Gold Batboon A may very well be the one to use Sacrifice if Gold Batboon B is the one with low HP; not that the player will know because he will be kill.

[Anonymous No.9647161]

>>9647145
Does that mean that bigger groups have a greater chance of using it, since each monkey has a chance of using it if any of them are low?

[Anonymous No.9647203]

>>9647161
Nevermind, I got that part wrong, each Batboon only checks his own HP. I got confused because I had breakpoints on both enemies's HP addresses at the same time

[Anonymous No.9647205]

>>9646907
>heh have fun playing the game the way the devs intended like everyone else

[Anonymous No.9647210]

>>9647045
>You don't need to know their exact HP.
Not according to this faggot anon >>9646907

[Anonymous No.9647245]

>>9647210
I never said you needed to know their exact HP, I said approximate. Like if you have a group of enemies you should know that Prince of Cannock + Princess can kill enemy B on their own while the Prince of Midenhall can start hurting enemy A and noone loses a turn doing nothing.
It doesn't take to know precise HP values nor to check a guide, just knowledge acquired from a previous fight. The semi randomized enemy HP values + attack values may sometimes lead to a miss by a few HP, but in my experience it's pretty rare (and it's how I realized that enemies had randomized HP values on my first playthrough)

Honestly it just seems like basic RPG playing to me before auto-targetting became a thing

Fun fact: the gold values are tied to the HP values, so if the enemy has -10% of its max HP value you'll get -10% of its max gold value

[Anonymous No.9648487]

>>9646907
Agreed it’s just oldschool 101 and even applies to some crpg.

>>9647037
>>9647045
>>9647145
>>9647203
Awesome thanks for checking. I’ll have to be on my A game when I do play DQ2.

Compared to the horrors I’ve heard about Wizardry 1’s endgame(assuming no save states) I don’t think DQ2 seems that bad in comparison.

[Anonymous No.9649069]

>>9647245
>Honestly it just seems like basic RPG playing to me before auto-targetting became a thing

Auto-targeting as in, automatically attacking the next enemy if the one the attacker was told to attack is unexpectedly dead? I don't even see that as being relevant, since you still benefit from being able to knock down exactly which enemy you want at a time of your choosing.

It's bizarre that you're even having to repeatedly explain this to recalcitrant 4chan creatures. It's like having to explain that chewing food, though technically optional, makes the food easier to swallow. "No, only fat autists are obsessed enough to bother with chewing." Disgusting, these creatures.

>Awesome thanks for checking. I’ll have to be on my A game when I do play DQ2.

I said it above and I'm saying it again: I did this as a kid, repeatedly, and I was not hardcore. The battles are EASY. It is a JRPG; you just need to grind until it's easy enough, make a few runs, and get a tiny bit lucky (with enemies' Sacrifice logic or whatever) in a single one of your runs. It's easy. If you worry about this game's difficulty, worry about the mapping and puzzle aspects of it that my kid self cheated past, not about the battles. Those are the only potentially hard parts.

[Anonymous No.9649621]

>>9644306
The mobile/switch remake sucked, but it was a nice touch that if you take the princess with you to fight the dragonlord he comments that you brought him a gift.

[Anonymous No.9650106]

>>9633842
Invisible floor tile pickups suck, man.

[Anonymous No.9650174]

>>9633727
>Is it really that hard?
Sure is hard to look at with that DBZ "art" and character rehash.

[Anonymous No.9650967]

>>9649621
I think he has a line for that situation in the NES version as well.

[Anonymous No.9651202]

>>9650967
No. I just played it recently.

[Anonymous No.9651326]

>>9650174
>DBZ

[Anonymous No.9651527]

>>9651326
yes

[Anonymous No.9651697]

>>9633727
No; just designed so you have to grind for six hours before leaving the first town in order to thwart renters.

[Anonymous No.9652310]

>>9639120
They improved upon the formula in 3.

[Anonymous No.9652314]

>>9639753
GBC

[Anonymous No.9652346]

>>9652314
I wouldn't recommend GBC on a first playthrough due to the lower FOV, it's a burden for exploration unless you already know the places

[Anonymous No.9652412]

>>9651697
I stuck around that general area until level 3 like the manual suggested. Took maybe 15 minutes. Use your brain instead of slapping A for three hours.

[Anonymous No.9652514]

>>9647245
Auto-targeting and its consequences have been a disaster for the JRPG genre.

[Anonymous No.9652945]

>>9652514
I agree

[Anonymous No.9653083]

So I've only got the the switch port and the gbc port, which would you suggest? I've got the sfc compilation too but since I've never tried dq2 I don't think I'd be able to memorize my way through since it's all on Japanese.

[Anonymous No.9653120]

>>9653083
The SNES with an english translation, though the GBC field of vision isn't bad at all, this isn't a platformer.

[Anonymous No.9653261]

>>9633727
sidenote, i love the art style & designs of these old dragon quest games. i wish modern graphical capabilities were put to use to make games look like drawings come alive. i would love to play a game that exactly looks like these old chibi akira toriyama designs

[Anonymous No.9653425]

>>9653261
Builders kind of does that.
Toriyama really shines with monsters and toyetic creatures. Honestly, most JRPGs have pretty awful monster designs that are either boring or bizarre to where it doesn't seem like the artist had a strong concept when they drew it.

[Anonymous No.9653487]

>>9652412
You know retro anon, I think I’m learning from you. People whine so much about these old games difficulties and I kinda take it seriously then I learn years later the reality is more nuanced then I first thought.

I mean I was able to beat Might and Magic 1 PC and that’s horribly brutal combat wise, I’m sure I can handle DQ2 or even FF2.

[Anonymous No.9653769]

Pretty much every assortment of enemies here was annoying and I spent way too much time in this dungeon mapping it out. I couldn't be happier to be done with this gay place. What was a big speed bump in my enjoyment of this game.

[Anonymous No.9653838]

>>9633828
did these changes go back into the sfc version? afaik all that changed for enemies was exo and gold given out

[Anonymous No.9653938]

DQ2 suffers from a clear lack of playtesting or perhaps just lack of care for how bullshit some encounters can be but you can always just try again and mitigate the chance of getting dicked over going forward. And if you get lucky then, well you get lucky. I think you can simply say DQ2 is an unreliable game due to how extreme RNG swings in the lategame can be. Its start is also a bit tedious but picks up fast so I wouldn’t really hold it against itself. Once you’ve given each of your party members a head full of levels most of the game is fair enough.

[Anonymous No.9653943]

>>9639676
Dragon quest 3 is my favorite DQ game

[Anonymous No.9654271]

>>9653838
I'm ready to get that not only they went back, but they made other changes that make things even easier.
The SNES/GBC versions always felt to me MUCH easier than the NES US version, and not just because of exp/gold drops. For instance it felt to me item drops are much, much, much easier to get in those versions than in the original; but every documentation online says nothing about that. In the OG version the quickest way to make money is to beat some Gold Orcs, but in the remakes it's to beat Gargoyles in the Tower of the Moon so you can sell their Iron Helmet drops.

[Anonymous No.9654279]

>>9654271
Also you can get the Magic Hat as soon as you reach the dam town with the dam key, the tower near by has metal babbles who can drop the hat.

[Anonymous No.9656401]

>>9653487
If you can deal with the crap early CRPGs threw at you I'm pretty sure you won't have any issue with console RPGs.

[Anonymous No.9656416]

>>9633727
Man that art style is ass.

[Anonymous No.9656671]

>>9656401
True true, so supposedly horrible console games are probably right up my ally. Unless it’s something really dumb like Stargazers/Hoshi Wo Miru Hito. I hope you’re not gonna tell me the unconventional brilliance of Stargazers now. ;)

[Anonymous No.9656680]

>>9633727
>prince of cannock sleeps forever in beran
>gg next game.

[Anonymous No.9656695]

>>9634390
I gotta go with Toriyama

[Anonymous No.9658675]

>>9643381
Please make a thread whenever you write such documentation. I'd be interested in reading it. I was considering making a FAQ with that enemy data in it a couple of years ago but got distracted after scouring for a bunch of data.
I actually have a small spreadsheet with probabilities of enemy actions I gathered from somewhere (I forgot where...) if you're interested. Truthfully, I'm not sure if it's from DW2 or DQ2 so I don't know if having mystery soup data would really be helpful to you. It might even be a mix since I wasn't aware there was a regional difference while I was putting it together, though I began to suspect it after observing the DQ2 numbers.

[Anonymous No.9659967]

>>9634390
I go with sugiyama, dude is probably a crazy bastard who has his dad's weapons from the war hidden away somewhere.

[Anonymous No.9660532]

>>9659967
He's not going to protect you anymore anon

[Verification not required. No.9660548]

>>9660532
rape nanking? no such thing!
tanks on heads? would not dread!

oh we are the japanese
proud rulers of the chinese
but we'd never do war crimes
for us it would not please!

run down chinks and watch them scream
amputate in ways obscene
take some photos on the way
to share when we get home someday!

that's the stuff you hear from fools
they think war should have no rules
we're bushido and we're just
no one could ever doubt our trust!

oh we are the japanese
about war crimes we'd never tease
we're good people you will see
now come look at this knife with me!

sugiyama spell of regeneration, I bring him back to my side by singing this for all to hear.

[Anonymous No.9661413]

Hey trying these out for the first time on Switch. Going to do 1 & 2. What's the best guide online to follow?

[Anonymous No.9661497]

>>9661413
One is straight forward really, I'm playing 2 rn and I'm just using the game manual. Not far yet, just wandering around with John.

[Anonymous No.9661509]

>>9653261
Blue dragon on xbox360 may be a good choice, it's not dq monsters so try that.

[Anonymous No.9661570]

>>9661413
Don't use a guide unless you spent an hour plus and still don't know what to do. The biggest appeals of DQI and II is exploring the towns and dungeons and obtaining information or items to unlock new portions of places you've previously been in.

[Anonymous No.9662090]

>>9661413
>>9661570
I used a guide for every single DQ game I've ever played including spinoffs and replays and it's still my favorite series of all time. Currently playing XI for the first time with a guide and it's living up to the hype.

[Anonymous No.9662919]

>>9633727
im playing it right now because of this thread, and no, it's not.

[Anonymous No.9663013]

>>9650967
It's the SNES release. I carted her around with me the entire game so my little dude could get some road puff puff