/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9611914]

ITT, talk about busted moves, equipment and characters. If it's overpowered, it goes here.

I wouldn't go as far as to say Sabin himself is busted, as there are quite a few characters that can potentially do way more than he can, but Bum Rush, his best move, is pretty fucking broken considering how early and easily you can get it. Just go talk to a dude after you get the airship and it's yours. Even at around level 20-ish, with magic-boosting equips it can do over 7000 damage, which is enough to make most of the remainder of the game a joke. And there's zero drawbacks to spamming it. It's actually pretty insane.

[Anonymous No.9611926]

>>9611914

[Anonymous No.9611928]

>>9611914
>And there's zero drawbacks to spamming it
There's exactly one.
1) You can't choose which enemy it hits.
But if you're only fighting one enemy, it doesn't matter.
And I guess they thought that doing a full circle motion on the d-pad was pretty difficult for RPG players.
I really enjoyed seeing Woolie discover what Sabin was all about.
https://youtu.be/CiD8HVjlNT8?t=2286

[Anonymous No.9611938]

>>9611914
Sabin is super powerful early on too, especially if you realize a lot of his Blitzes power up with Magic. So if you give him Earrings and boost his Magic stat he does a ton.

[Anonymous No.9611939]

[Anonymous No.9611951]

>>9611928
And then it turns out you don't even have to do an actual circle motion - just press left, left, up, up, right, right, down, down, left and it'll register all the same.
>>9611938
Eh, he's certainly good at that point, but I didn't find him to be that much better than Edgar even with the knowledge you mention in mind, and Gau might actually be better, though it requires getting certain Rages, which can be tedious. And then there's Mog, who just kicks all kinds of ass once you get him in the WoB (also in the WoR, but for different reasons).

[Anonymous No.9612156]

>>9611928
>I really enjoyed seeing Woolie discover what Sabin was all about.
"Damn, there's a series where Woolsey sat down for a playthrough and shared his thoughts? I gotta see this!"
>https://youtu.be/CiD8HVjlNT8?t=2286
"Wait, what the crap... That ain't Woolsey at all."

[Anonymous No.9613183]

>>9611939
by the time you get calculator the game is already faceroll easy. calculator is funny as fuck at least

[Anonymous No.9613704]

>>9613183
Agreed

[Anonymous No.9613850]

>>9611914
Bum Rush may be powerful, but Suplex is the coolest Blitz.

[Anonymous No.9613854]

>>9613850
And I'd use it a whole lot more if it wasn't for the fucktarded decision to make it do half damage when more than one enemy is on screen, not to mention the fact that it doesn't work on a lot of bosses or enemies.

[Anonymous No.9613894]

>>9613850
>>9613854
I wonder how challenging FF6 might have been if they didn't decide "hey every character starts with a defense ignoring zero mp cost strong attack" There's never a reason to select the Fight command in the entire game.

[Anonymous No.9613927]

Every Final Faggotry game has some bullshit that makes it way too easy but also boring so you have to consciously castrate yourself to make it interesting.

[Anonymous No.9613937]

>>9613183
>>9613704
calculator just lets you faceroll faster, especially if you set up your calculator to have 10 speed so they can nuke every unit on the map on their first turn

[Anonymous No.9613950]

It's so good most people don't even notice it has a penalty.

[Anonymous No.9613960]

Deus Ex isn't supposed to be a game about killing.
But the Dragon Tooth Sword is way too big of a temptation, where you just want to abandon stealth and go on a killing spree.

[Anonymous No.9613962]

>>9613894
Fight is indeed weak shit for much of the game, which sucks for Locke because he's one of the only characters that doesn't have an alternative to Fight until you get Magic. It does get much stronger in the WoR once you get access to the more powerful weapons and Relics, though, and with the proper setup it obsoletes specials such as Tools, Dance and Slots, although the game is so easy you can probably get by fine spamming the same old stuff anyway.

[Anonymous No.9613993]

>>9613960
That Dragon Tooth Sword is broken. It makes the game too easy, sadly.

[Anonymous No.9614130]

>>9613960
>Deus Ex isn't supposed to be a game about killing.
I hate this misconception that badly manifested in the new games.

[Anonymous No.9614141]

>>9613960
You can still be stealth and murder everyone with that sword

[Anonymous No.9614591]

>>9611914
Petrify grenades in FFX, it's basically an instant death for the entire enemy party. If you backtrack to Djose when you get Rikku you can farm a whole bunch.

[Anonymous No.9614638]

how about that Tri-Rang in Breath of Fire?
it's like the 4th or 5th strongest weapon in the game for the MC and it hits every enemy with no damage splitting, only reason to not use it is if you're fighting only one enemy
and it's just sitting there in the Crypt, you just have to remember to go back there when you get Ox

[Anonymous No.9614660]

>>9613960
>Way too big of a temptation.

Not if you maxed out the computer and security skills by then. Turrets will do the work for you.

[Anonymous No.9614786]

>>9611914
Sabin can certainly carry a party early on, but Gau is just as broken if not moreso.
>Stray Cat
>Wind God Gau
>ChickenLip
>HadesGigas
and, most broken of all, Nightshade.
Nightshade has a 50/50 chance of using Charm, which always hits and no enemies are immune to. Charm permanently makes an enemy attack itself instead of you. Because it always hits and no enemies are immune to, this means that it is an "I win" button against bosses.
You can literally make Kefka kill himself with it.

[Anonymous No.9614792]

>>9611914
The quad attack in FF5. There's no reason not to just give this to all four characters and spam it.
Ninjas in Final Fantasy Tactics. The speed stat boosts upon leveling completely fucking break the game. Level up characters as Ninjas then put Orlandu in your party and Orlandu will never get a turn the ninjas are so fucking fast.

[Anonymous No.9614808]

>>9611914
Bum Rush already does 9999 when I get it because I've leveled him with magic-boosting Espers before I get it.
You can get Air Blade to do 9999 to all enemies by leveling him with magic-boosting Espers.

[Anonymous No.9614825]

>>9611914
>Peach's glide in SMB2
>Diablo 2 Sorc getting teleport and static
>mana shield in Diablo
>broken JRPG healers like Peach in Mario RPG or Marle
>Dixie Kong's glide
>Jeff's bottle rockets
>Melee Metaknight
>strawberries in HM64
>R/B Alakazam
>the Mastermune in Chrono Cross gives you insane crits that can solo the rest of the game on its damage easily
>

[Anonymous No.9614845]

Skitty in PMD Rescue Team. What makes it more notable is that it's a complete piece of garbage in the normal Pokemon games.

>Sing is far more accurate than it is in the mainline games
>Attract works on every pokemon in the game, stacks with Sing
>infatuation in Rescue Team=completely immobile until it wears off
>this means you can stunlock every single enemy in the game
>Doubleslap hits for the power of 2-5 turns worth of attacks in a single turn because base move power basically doesn't exist
>even if an enemy hits you there's a good chance they're now infatuated and cannot move

[Anonymous No.9614854]

>>9614825
>Melee Metaknight

[Anonymous No.9614982]

>>9614845
Adding to the PMD stuff that still counts as retro

Screech is fucked up. It works outside the standard buff/debuff formula, and no amount of Defense Curling will undo a Screech debuff. Having ultra high defense stats and getting hit by merely a single one can make you go from taking 1 damage from weak enemies to over 50. At 2 Screeches, you have roughly 3% of your normal defense stat, a stronger debuff than anything else in the game.
However, if you've got a pokemon that can use it alongside a multihit attack like Fury Swipes, you can combine the two so they come out in the same turn. You can simply delete anything in your path with this combo.

Sonicboom counts as well. Normally it only hits for 20 damage all the time, but for some reason it hits for 55 damage in Rescue Team. It is also a ranged attack and never misses. Simply put, if you have it in a challenge Level 1 dungeon, 99% of the dungeon dies in only 2 uses, and you never have to get close.

[Anonymous No.9615392]

super feather in smw.

[Anonymous No.9615589]

>>9611928
I don’t have any issues performing the moves, but if someone who has never played a fighting game before can’t pull them off consistently, they would be wasting a lot of turns. I’d consider that another draw back.

[Anonymous No.9615606]

>>9615589
Yeah, I remember messing them up a bunch as a kid.

[Anonymous No.9616265]

>>9614786
Yeah but a lot of those are hard to find, or rather you wouldn't know to go seek them out unless a guide said what they did. I remember I did a play of FF6 a couple years ago and didn't get Stray Cat and idk if it was too late by the end or it was just such a low chance of appearing but you really need to actively take time out of the game to periodically go get more Gau skills, and then the time takes to test them out, etc. it's kind of tedious. No wonder most people skip out on him.

[Anonymous No.9616291]

>game has fuck ton of magic/range abilities
>basic attack still best by wide margin
Why the fuck do they even bother anymore?

[Anonymous No.9616330]

>>9616291
YOU'RE A WIDE MARGIN

[Anonymous No.9616340]

>>9616291
>game has fuck ton of magic/range abilities
>enemies are immune to 90% of them

[Anonymous No.9616352]

>has to be banned because of all the noobs he destroys in every tournament

[Anonymous No.9616354]

>>9616265
OP here, that's kind of what I was getting at. There are several characters, Gau included, that are potentially way more powerful than Sabin can ever be, but the issue here is twofold: one, you have to know how to equip and build them up to get them to that bullshit OP stage, and two, it typically takes quite a bit more work. So like you said, you have to know which of Gau's Rages are the broken ones and you gotta take time off to hunt for them, which can be tedious as fuck. For another example, Terra and Celes's ultimate setup (with maxed MBlock plus the Gem Box) requires not only figuring out that maxed Mblock makes you almost invincible, but also hunting down all the necessary equips, which are scattered all over the WoR, so you likely won't achieve it until near the end of the game. Meanwhile, the only obstacle Sabin has to maxing out his potential is figuring out where Duncan is, which isn't hard at all. It's quick, it's easy, can be done super early, and then spammed relentlessly. And in the end, you really don't need anything else, because the game just isn't challenging enough to incentivize you to figure out how to utterly break it.

[Anonymous No.9616361]

>>9616330
imma wide margin yo dick in my mouf
>>9616340
>enemies are immune to 90% of them
That's a big part of it. A lot of games don't even try to rock-paper-scissor it, shit just doesn't work because of little more than varying degrees of development laziness.

[Anonymous No.9616435]

>>9616265
You really just need Stray Cat and Nightshade.

[Anonymous No.9616439]

People talk up how good Abra's line is in gen 1, but for ingame, it thrives in gen 2 especially.

>caught 5 seconds away from the store that sells the elemental punch TM's
>now instead of being forced to switch train until Kadabra, you can get it fire/ice/electric coverage instantly
>add an eventual psychic attack into the mix and you have an unresisted moveset that works against all foes
>even before evolving it has higher special attack than Mew
>doesn't even need to be an Alakazam, is the main powerhouse even if it stays a Kadabra
>even though dark/steel types exist, the former is practically unheard of outside of Karen and you can simply Fire Punch the steel types

[Anonymous No.9616456]

>>9616361
>imma wide margin yo dick in my mouf
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.9616507]

>>9616439
Alakazam is my favorite pokemon because of using it in gen 2. I owned 2 transfer paks because I got both Stadium games and could trade easily to my copy of Pokemon Yellow and back and get an Alakazam before Morty. It was disgustingly broken (and still was in later gens because they all let you get abra relatively early until gen 5)

[Anonymous No.9616527]

>>9611914
the whole game was made to make Sabin looks cool.

Look at his scenario. Ghost train, wild, Cyan Castle. This is basically the best part of the entire game in there and it is almost Sabin solo

And then one of the first character you get back. In fact I wonder why they made Celes the main character in WoR rather then freaking Sabin.

[Anonymous No.9616532]

>>9616439
This is true and pretty underrated. But then again you can also get same moveset with Feraligator and Typhlosion, you would only lack Psychic which is a pretty big deal.

I think Hypno stats are not good enough to make this work but yeah Kadabra destroy the game just like he did back in Gen 1

[Anonymous No.9616542]

People sleep on the Deku Nuts hard.

>gigantic radius
>stops jellyfish in Jabu-Jabu from zapping you when you slash at them with the sword
>nukes the annoying bubbles
>can stun Dark Link, assuming you throw them without facing directly at him
>can not only flinch Ganon for a couple seconds, but the flashbang from the nut actually deals damage to him when thrown at his tail

[Anonymous No.9616740]

for me it's the Shock Cannon in Ratchet and Clank 3

Outside of being a space shotgun, the weapon's main gimmick is being able to charge up a shot which uses more ammo but does more damage appropriately, but also the charged shot persists as a beam for about a second, which can be swept around to deal damage in a wider area and is good for crowd control.

The "problem" with this weapon lies in the fact that the devs clearly only seriously playtested it using lock strafe controls, which has relatively slow aim and limits how fast you can sweep the Shock Cannon beam to just sweeping it in one direction before it fades. If you instead use the third person controls, which lets you fire weapons in whichever direction Ratchet is facing instead of always toward a screen reticle, and move Ratchet around real fucking fast after firing the charged Shock Cannon, you can whip the beam back and forth and hit the same target like 5-6 times with the same shot and do basically the most damage at once as possible in the game.

Probably my favourite instance of "the starting weapon is the most broken weapon in the game" because of how easily this exploit flies under the radar.

[Anonymous No.9617223]

>>9614591
I didn't use those, but I had a stonetouch sword I got as a random drop for Tidus on my first playthrough that trivialized random encounters. I wasn't even sure where I got it from, but it was probably from around that time.

[Anonymous No.9617232]

>>9611914
>I wouldn't go as far as to say Sabin himself is busted, as there are quite a few characters that can potentially do way more than he can, but Bum Rush, his best move, is pretty fucking broken considering how early and easily you can get it. Just go talk to a dude after you get the airship and it's yours. Even at around level 20-ish, with magic-boosting equips it can do over 7000 damage, which is enough to make most of the remainder of the game a joke. And there's zero drawbacks to spamming it. It's actually pretty insane.

It's been a while since i have completed FFIII (or VI), but one thing I remember doing was going to the coliseum (when it is available) and betting experience eggs for an item called a Genji Glove. The genji glove allows to equip a claw in each hand of Sabin.

[Anonymous No.9617240]

>>9616527
FFVI is great because basically every character gets some time in the spotlight. Terra tends to be thought of as the main character, but only really characters like Gau, Gogo, Mog, and Yeti don't get exposition, and one of those has a decent bit of background lore you pick up if you talk to people in Mobliz.

Every other FF except for 1 and 3 focus much more heavily on the main character, FFVI is really the only one with an ensemble cast.

[Anonymous No.9617370]

>>9617232
I think you might be misremembering. You can't win Genji Gloves from the Colosseum, and betting Exp. Eggs gets you Tintinabars. Anyway, it's a good relic, but Sabin's not the best character to equip with it. I'd much rather give it to Cyan, along with the Offering, so he can use dual Tempests and Wind Slash everything, or better yet, give it to Locke once he reaches around level 50 so he can dual-wield Atma Weapon and Valiant Knife, both of which ignore defense.

[Anonymous No.9617586]

>>9617232
The broken thing from the Coliseum is the Marvel Shoes. Regen, Haste, Shell and Safe in one accessory.
Fairly easy to get very early on on World of Ruin by using Setzer with Fixed Dice (loot Kefka's Tower early with Mog/Moogle Charm) and Offering (pretty easy to quickly run into Ancient Castle with a low level, early WoR party, loot this and run out). You'll die a few times and have to reset/reload save state but you'll win after a few deaths.
Just bet Elixir to win Rename Card and bet Rename Card to win Marvel Shoes.
While there are better setups for these fights than the above Setzer one, the above Setzer one is very easy to acquire very easy in WoR and will work for all fights necessary to turn four Elixirs into four Marvel Shoes.

[Anonymous No.9617592]

>>9617586
Moogle Charm might be another good candidate for most broken item in a certain sense. It single-handedly allows you to loot much of the WoR with ease so that you can put together insane equipment setups that you can then use to destroy most enemies and bosses even at low levels.

[Anonymous No.9617606]

>>9617592
Yeah, one of the very first things always I do upon getting the airship in WoR is grab Mog, the Moogle Charm, and then loot the fuck out of everything I can.

[Anonymous No.9617642]

>>9616542

Woah, that's cool. I'm gonna do that from now on, thx anon

[Anonymous No.9617678]

>>9617642
Don't forget about the Deku Stick. The game treats it like a Master Sword when it comes to damage. Pair this with a jump attack and crouch stab and you can delete anything you see as child link.

[Anonymous No.9617748]

In a game with so many broken things, these little guys stand head and shoulders as the most brokenest

[Anonymous No.9617918]

>Body A
>Boost B
>Grip E
>the B rating on boost is a flat out lie since it has the strongest, longest-lasting boost in the entire game, having a duration that is 2 to 3 times longer than many other machines
>the E grip isn't as bad as it sounds either
>one of the tankiest machines in the game
>second highest unboosted top speed in the game, falling short by just a few km/h (in a game where you'll top out at 1100km)
>heaviest machine in the game, allowing it to preserve superhigh speeds gained from boosts or jumps for longer
>weight also makes it more adept at killing other racers
>despite this, has the acceleration of a middleweight machine
>should you want to destroy your hands with snaking, this machine does it spectacularly
>the only downside, bad turning, is completely negated by quick turns (hitting both triggers and letting go of one of them during a turn, tightening your turn greatly)

Granted, you need to beat a story mode mission on Very Hard to even gain access to it. But once you do, you have the most overpowered thing in the game.

[Anonymous No.9617982]

>>9614591
Alchemist in X-2. Why bother with a White Mage when an Alchemist can just throw out unlimited megalixers? Magic in general is weak in X-2.

[Anonymous No.9617990]

>>9613960
>Deus Ex isn't supposed to be a game about killing.
It was always about playing the game how you wanted, retard. Killing included.

[Anonymous No.9618197]

>>9611914
I don't know if it counts since he's the final boss and only gets unlocked after beating the game, but these topics always remind me of Sweet Tooth in Twisted Metal 4.
His stats are nothing out of the ordinary but his special comically busted, a homing attack that reaches any part of the maps, goes through walls and does obscene amounts of damage (I believe it two-shots almost every character), which makes it so you need to cheese him in order to beat the game.
You can continually beat the game on the same save and it will progressively get harder (with some increasingly powerful titles bestowed upon your save to signal how far you got) and I remember my brother and I both picked him and beat it like 4 or 5 times over (despite taking a week to beat the first time) until we just got sick of crushing everyone.
After that, I became convinced the game becomes unlosable as long as you spam the special off cooldown, you often don't even need to move lol

[Anonymous No.9618209]

>>9617990
Paul is disappointed in you.

[Anonymous No.9618230]

>>9613960
It's not just for killing, mind you. It's also strong enough to break open drawers and lockers.

[Anonymous No.9618253]

>>9614638
I maxed this game a few years ago. With the tri rang you eventually hit 999 on all enemies. Better than the empireSD

[Anonymous No.9619661]

>>9617223
The issue with petrification on weapons in FFX is that you don't get overkills when they trigger, even if you normally were strong enough to.
Overkills double AP, which is a big deal because they double AP for EVERY character with battle participation, not just the one that gets the kill.
Random encounters aren't about survival or attrition. You have Yuna and Rikku, two of the greatest healers in any Final Fantasy game. You aren't going to die.
Random encounters are about squeezing every drop of resources out of your enemies as efficiently as possible like you're a succubus in a level drain doujin.

TLDR; Petrification weapons are a noob trap

[Anonymous No.9619724]

>>9611951
Most players back then did not have sperg guides like that. Most wouldn’t know how. I remember it being impossible on an emulator. It’s basically an inauthentic move to use. It’s like being able to do a zangrief piledriver every time

[Anonymous No.9619740]

>>9619724
Yeah lol that's actually the reason I found out about the easymode way to execute Blitzes - getting them to work with the arrow keys was a pain, though I want to say I did somehow manage most of the time. In any case, I ran across the tip online, and it made using Sabin much easier, and it works with a regular pad, too, so why not use it?

[Anonymous No.9619898]

>>9619661
I don't know how much grinding you need to do in X to really justify needing the extra AP though, I'd rather random encounters instantly end because I can shatter everything. Though I did get stuck on Bevelle Seymour for a while, so perhaps there is some merit to it.

[Anonymous No.9619906]

Bambi and Tinker Bell are absolutely ridiculous in Kingdom Hearts.
Bambi constantly refills your mana for the duration he's summoned. There are only two costs for summoning; mana, and not being able to use other party members while the summon is active. Bambi instantly refunds you for the mana you used to summon him so the only cost is losing Donald and Goofy for a while, which is perfectly fine considering you get to spam whatever magic you want all that time.
Tinker Bell is a literal life saver; she constantly heals you and if you die while she's summoned you come back to life at the cost of her being unsummoned, like a Legend of Zelda fairy. That's already great because late game enemies can basically one-shot you on hard mode. What makes her completely nuts is that she doesn't take up a party slot. (You know, because she's small.) So you get to keep Donald and Goofy the whole time she's out. And unlike every other summon in the game she has no timer; she stays summoned until her effect triggers.
Also, she was already the hottest character in Disney and Square gave her pink panties and lipstick for Kingdom Hearts, the fucking chads.

[Anonymous No.9619918]

The sight bracelet in the Shiren the Wanderer series. When worn, it let's you see all enemies and items on the map. It effectively removes the exploration of the game and is far in a way the best bracelet in any game it appears in. Some speedrunners and pros ban its use as it's that good. I'd like to give a special mention to the wall clip bracelet. It appears in less Shiren games but when it's there, it becomes a great contender for best bracelet. When worn, the player can pass through walls and will take damage every turn they're in a wall. A small price to pay for invincibility inside walls, effortless traversal, and becoming effectively unbeatable when used with the sight bracelet.

[Anonymous No.9619929]

>>9619898
If you grind for, like, an hour on Mi'ihen Highroad, you get to the point where you overkill every enemy in the area in one hit (except bombs, you need to wait until Blizzara for them).
By the time you get to the next area, you have so much AP from one-hit overkilling enemies in Mi'ihen that you one-hit overkill every enemy in the new area too.
You can repeat this all the way to Zanarkand.

You don't have to play the game like that, a big part of the appeal of games like FFX is that pretty much anything you can come up with is viable to at least some degree, but it is efficient and pretty fun.

[Anonymous No.9619984]

>>9619898
>>9619929
I remember grinding a fuckton in Mt. Gagazet, probably because Seymour Flux is one of the harder storyline bosses and he pushes most new players' shit in.

[Anonymous No.9620000]

>>9616527
>And then one of the first character you get back
Oh they knew exactly what they were doing.
After that extremely depressing first sequence, NOTHING is going to lift your spirits back up faster than getting Sabin right away.

[Anonymous No.9620002]

>>9617918
I can relate, although I’m a pleb who uses Octoman because he doesn’t skid

[Anonymous No.9620057]

>>9620000
It makes sense from a gameplay perspective, too.
>stuck with just Celes
>here, have the character who can "cast" MP-free hit-all spells via Blitz

[Anonymous No.9620281]

Pretty much any of the rare weapons from SOTN. They pretty much all take the challenge out of the game if you're not familiar with the game and you're playing it normally. At any point, you could get the Marsil. Crissagrim, or Runeblade and it turns into an absolute fun-fest.