/vr/ - Retro Games

Would have Bean better than the PS2 port

>>9600676
Considering how SA2 was pushing the console's limits, and how much of a graphical leap Heroes over it was...
No. Not in a million years without MASSIVE compromises.

>>9600679
PS2 was weaker than Dreamcast in a lot of ways, not hard

It wouldn't have existed, at least not in any similar form. Heroes was made as a result of going cross platform.

>>9600676
Yes. Have you seen how much better the games are on Dreamcast than PS2? Dead Or Alive 2 is a prime example of games that are better on Dreamcast.

>>9600767
In what ways? Not shitting on the DC, PSO is one of my favorite games of all time, but I don't think the DC could run something like Silent Hill 3

>>9600874
>Dead Or Alive 2 is a prime example of games that are better on Dreamcast.

Why

>>9600767
>>9600874
Segays still seething 23 years later limao

>>9600676
Yeah, try looking at Sonic Heroes as Sonic Heroes DX or some shit and downgrade it in your head. If only Sonic Adventure DX existed everyone would think it's a Gamecube game not possible on the Dreamcast as well

>>9600902
For one, it's progressive scan instead of interlaced.

>>9600932
And?

>>9600938
Meaning it's not a blurry piece of shit running on hackjob hardware like the Emotion Engine.

>>9600930
Sonic Heroes always looked worse than Sonic Adventure 2 to me, but I'm comparing the gamecube version of Heroes to the gamecube version of Adventure 2 in my head.

>>9600945
Graphically, isn't SA2 essentialy the same game on the GC? Because I remember that they really upped their game with the graphics in this one, I'm surprised the Dreamcast can even run it

>>9600952
No, SA2:B has improved character models and a better actually consistent framerate.

>>9600767
See Shenmue. Would have made a PS2 melt without any changes or more loading times

>>9601059
Gonna need a source that isn't a sega employee.

>>9601201
Brain

>>9600902
because it looks better, simple as

>>9600874
Crazy Taxi is better too, but that's mostly because the PS2 port is a buggy mess.

I would like to see a demo port to see if it were actually doable. Would it require a decomp for someone to do that?

>>9600676
Dreamcast's worst bottleneck is RAM if it's being compared to the other 6th-gen systems. No dual analog and relatively small storage capacity as well.
Dreamcast is the PC Engine of its generation.
>older than the others in its generation by quite a bit
>first of its generation to market
>demonstrated a significant graphical leap that set it apart from older competition
>lots of ports from older systems with fundamentally previous-gen mechanics and better looking graphics
>unique tricks to keep it competitive with newer, more powerful hardware
Sonic Adventure 2 is to Dreamcast as Street Fighter II is to PC Engine

>>9600676
>Would it have worked?
Since nothing after Adventure 2 never ever worked of them, I would guess rather no

>>9600963
It also downgrades or misses textures, has objectively worse lighting, forgets that it upgraded the polygons in half the cutscenes, and completely unbalances the multiplayer mode (the only place where the framerate boost matters).

>>9600930
To be fair, DX Sonic has a much higher polygon count than the DC version, but I agree that people overblow how "weak" the DC was. People forget that the DC can run most of its library in 480p, while the PS2 can mostly just manage to hit 480i (which is really just 240p but doubled). In truth, all the killer apps for all of the consoles of the time were highly specialized to the hardware they were built for, hence why most DC ports look dramatically worse on PS2, or sound better than on the GC. The DC definitely couldnt run the post-processing effects of SH2, but I don't think the texture work would be impossible as the DC has texture decompression, while the PS2 doesn't. I really think we never saw what the DC was completely capable of as a lot of techniques were developed later in the gen.

>>9600686
What the fuck are you talking about, Heroes was graphically a step down. Visiually it was a step above with much better art direction but in terms of models and effects it was way more simple.

>>9603067
Sonic and Street fighter is to.... Masaka u wanna say it's best on TENDO or what?

>>9603067
>Dreamcast is the PC Engine of its generation.

the pc engine had a solid run from 1987-1994, and still managed to survive till 96. the dreamcast stopped getting major releases after 3 years

while street fighter ii was decent on pce, it was ultimately an inferior port of the snes port.
fatal fury special was mindfuckingly good on pce and proved it could even surpass the snes, if given proper budget and programming

>>9603108
It's funny how Street Fighter has been tricky to play on Nintendo consoles for decades because Nintendo always changes their stock controllers and the SNES controller just happened to be perfect for 6-button fighting games. The Switch Pro Controller is ok for it, but it's almost exactly like having to buy a 6-button Genesis controller because it isn't usually bundled.
Sonic is best played on a Model 1 Genesis.
>>9603145
If we compare how they did in Japan, Dreamcast ran 1998-2005 and managed to get officially published games into 2007.
If we compare how they did in America, Turbografx-16 stopped getting major releases after 4 years.
Dreamcast had its strongest support in the west and yet the west got cut off from new games early. It didn't do great in Japan and yet, SoJ officially supported it for 7 years, and it sold well enough elsewhere to balance it out sales-wise with how well the PC Engine did in Japan.

>>9603189
>managed to get officially published games into 2007

if you're gonna use this argument, where the dreamcast literally got only 4 games in 2005 and 2 games in 2006, you might as well say the pc engine "lasted" until 1999

>>9601201
You know damn well it would be all blurry low res textures and 480 interlaced only.

>>9603103
>Heroes was graphically a step down
>in terms of models
Are you stupid?
SA2 is one of the ugliest 3D Sonic games Sega has ever brought out, and just because the character models have slightly more poly's doesn't mean it's graphically better than Heroes.
Name literally a single stage from SA2 that has more complex object layouts and geometry than Heroes.

It takes basic observation to see that SA2 has extremely primitive models. It's only concealed by its amazing texture work but that's literally it.

>>9603794

>>9600902
Like the other anon said, it has progressive scan instead of interlace. Also I think the Dreamcast version is the only one with the nude intro code with Kasumi, even though she's covered in goo.

>>9600926
>Segays
>seething
You're the only one seething here over the truth being spewed.

>>9602724
Agreed.

>>9600686
Ocean Palace.....home......

>>9600874
>Dead Or Alive 2 is a prime example of games that are better on Dreamcast
Mostly due to how hard it was to port games from one to the other, if development had started on the PS2 it would have been a different story.

>>9600945
Heroes has bad character design. The environments are way better than the DC games but the plastic textures on the main characters and the ugly enemies spoil it.

>>9600686
Say what you will about the overall quality, but I LOVE the set pieces in this game

>>9600767
>not hard
Yes hard, the game had shittons of bugs. It would at best look worse than Gamecube version but played on par to Gamecube version, nothing more.

>>9603794
Imo, I agree, but SA2B shills will say otherwise

I agree that the actual models and envirment texturing is hot liquid shit. Heroes is how a Sonic game shoudl always look, or in todays world look like Jet Set Radio?Wind Waker. Realism ages Sonic like cancer and I hate people defending it. The game would have looks so much better with a complete anime look since they want that tone so much instead of this dogshit pixar disney realism they keep using since Unleashed, or just outdated realism before Unleashed.

>>9600676
Yes, with major graphics compromises.
There are many reasons why dreamcast had to be discontinued. Being unable to output graphics past 1999 graphics technology, to keep up with the true next gen consoles, was one of them.
Just imagine how NFS Hot Pursuit 2 on this outdated turd... Imagine Burnout 3.... jesus.

>>9602254
>simple as
Anyone who says this can immediately be disregarded

>>9600676
100% unironically Floigan Bros. Episode 1 has much higher poly count and large environments, so I don't see why not.

>>9600676
same as the other ones

>>9600679
>>9600686
Sonic Heroes doesn't use the sonic adventure engine, it uses Renderware engine so it could be programmed and ported with ease to each platform.

>>9606502
>>9600686
Thats why Sonic Heroes PS2 port ran at 30 fps.

>>9606498
Heroes looks mediocre though. It's cartoony in a very uninteresting way most of the time with environments that look fine during gameplay but not particularly special, and some were generic like Hang Castle and Mystic Mansion. S3&K can be argued to be more realistic looking and every zone in that game is way more interesting aesthetically, even Carnival Night is better than Casino Park. Sonic R and SA1 are what 3D Sonic should look like

>>9610096
Imagine a 3D Sonic platformer that looks like Sonic R. Literally can't have nice things. Literal nobodies could make Crash 1 in 1996 but one of the oldest and most experienced developers couldn't make a 3D Sonic game for the Saturn. And why even outsource your mascot to Traveller's Tales, nigga just make a Sonic game for the Saturn, it's your flagship series. God, Sega deserved everything that happened to them

>>9610108
Crash 1 was made for the PS1 though, the Saturn is a different beast and very hard to work with while Traveller's Tales were programming geniuses. Xtreme crashed and burned, so they chose to have at least something in form of the technically impressive and decently fun Traveller's Tales games and the Jam compilation.

>>9600767
Dreamcast had twice the VRAM but half the system RAM of the PS2. This made it easier to output 640x480p games with high quality textures, but other than that it was weaker. It's why Dreamcast games tend to be low poly with good image quality and decent textures, whereas PS2 games have worse image quality but more complex graphics.

>>9605135
>"At least it was.......until I fucked everything up"