/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9545568]

What's the most overrated retro game in your opinion?

Picrel is mine. Its not a bad game by any means, but its a "cheap shot" type of a game. Relying too much on wonky controls with camera angles constantly working against you, and calling it a challenge.

[Anonymous No.9545580]

I prefer Lttp, which anyone could argue is also overrated.

[Anonymous No.9545586]

>>9545568
Sounds like mad cause bad. Especially since this game isn’t really loved for its challenge or thought of as difficult.

[Anonymous No.9545596]

>>9545568
>Relying too much on wonky controls
please describe what elements of controlling mario are "wonky", he is one of the most OP and easy to control platformer characters ever made

[Anonymous No.9545598]

>>9545580
You will always look retarded when arguing either OoT or ALTTP are overrated, especially with all the shit games making it to the top nowadays

[Anonymous No.9545603]

>>9545580
You should at least stop using Water Temple pics for your OoT seethe posts. Just makes it look like you are mad cuz bad

[Anonymous No.9545605]

The games controls aren't bad by any stretch, the camera controls are just the shit part. The real issue with this game is the praise of it being perfect, and I can tell you personally from playing it as a kid and to now that beyond the first floor levels suck dick. Hazy maze and post are just gimmicky and annoying, It's just a chore of a game to get through past that point

[Anonymous No.9545620]

>>9545568
If Mario 64 was overrated you wouldn't have Jak and Daxter still trying to copy paste its moveset and momentum (and failing at that) 10 years later

[Anonymous No.9545621]

Pic related, probably because i'm a zoomer or something like that. It is always at the top in every list of the best games ever made, how? It sold well because it was bundled with the GB and was widely played by casuals, thats it. Does anyone played Tetris for more than one hour?

[Anonymous No.9545629]

>>9545605
Apparently it's also a chore for you to come up with any arguments so you resort to set phrases, which means you have as much credibility as a news article past 2012

[Anonymous No.9545640]

>>9545568
Making an 'overrated' thread with a picture of Mario 64 is kinda pathetic when your only complaint is the camera which was better than in any other 3D game at the time. Might be an actual zoomer thread, though.

[Anonymous No.9545645]

>>9545568
Ocarina of Time and FFVII without even playing them. And I guess Mega Man 2 since I prefer 3

[Anonymous No.9545648]

>>9545629
And you apparently can't come up with any arguments on why the levels past floor 1 are good, so I guess we're both in shitscreek on this one

[Anonymous No.9545652]

>>9545621
Replace with a pic of Pokemon and I agree. Game Boy has better games including Tetris

[Anonymous No.9545654]

>>9545621
>Does anyone played Tetris for more than one hour?
Considering there are Tetris tournaments to this day and it has more depth than 90% the classics, I'd assume so. You and OP should meet and agree on Donkey Kong 1981 for a thread that isn't complete garbage

[Anonymous No.9545657]

>>9545596
He's constantly sliding around, side stepping when turning around making you fall off things, long jump doesn't always work & butt stomps instead, etc.

[Anonymous No.9545658]

>>9545645
>without even playing them
the state of /vr/

[Anonymous No.9545676]

>>9545568
you are retarded
it basically perfected 3D movement on its first try at near the very begging of the 3D era

[Anonymous No.9545683]

>>9545657
I should add that the devs actually knew this & purposely put elements into the game that fucks you up simply because of it.

They're subtle but they're there & plentiful. It isn't a challenge if you're constantly fighting against elements like that, plus the camera literally working against you at every opportunity.

I felt that way as a kid, and still do now. Nothing will convince me those things aren't there. Its a good game, its a groundbreaking game, but it pisses me off because of it. Its a slog to get through because of it & ends up not being fun nor challenging.

[Anonymous No.9545684]

>>9545658
Come on, I know I'm not the only one lol

[Anonymous No.9545702]

>>9545684
that's why i said the state of /vr/ not of your peabrain

[Anonymous No.9545707]

>>9545648
The onus usually lies with the flatearther who claims something no serious person claimed before instead of the person who says something universally accepted and borne out by authentic review, gameplay and speedrun breakdowns or really any gameplay when opening your eyes and seeing that later levels are even more fun and tailor-made for Mario's moves:
https://youtu.be/rCx5D6Ev4-U?t=3404

Like every shitpost thread about the o so overrated Nintendo games you're essentially just moaning about the fact they aren't magic and so perfect God himself created them on his eighth day

[Anonymous No.9545714]

>aeons ahead of any other 3D platformer
>the biggest competing console doesn't even have a thumbstick
>is le overrated
snoy threads are pure comedy

[Anonymous No.9545719]

>>9545684
I have tried to play OoT countless times on both original system and emulator and i've never got past the first few hours. Same with FF7. These games aren't overrated and they deserve the praise, they just aged poorly (but i will never try the remasters).

[Anonymous No.9545723]

>>9545621
I fucking love tetris but I get how strange it is to rank a game like that in a best of list next to something like Chrono Trigger or zelda games.Puzzle games are closer to a traditional game than it is what most video games are.

[Anonymous No.9545725]

>>9545714
Letting this slide only because the DualShock came a year after SM64. Still kind of grasping at straws though lol

[Anonymous No.9545738]

>>9545621
Since you're from a different time period it may seem a bit foreign to you. Most people back then didn't sit down and play video games all day. They'd put in a game and do a 20~120 minute session there do something else like play with their other toys, hobbies, or go outside. Eventually video games on a wider scale became something the developers wanted the player to play hours on end every day. Hence why you have these 10+ hour games that weren't RPGs.
>>9545723
What is so traditional about Tetris? What is a traditional game? How cumbersome would it be to try to play Tetris without any computing power?

[Anonymous No.9545742]

shitarina of slime

[Anonymous No.9545746]

>>9545719
>they just aged poorly

the game plays exactly the same as it did the day it came out. You were just filtered, that's all.

[Anonymous No.9545751]

>>9545657
>long jump doesn't always work & butt stomps instead

The long jump works 100% of the time. You really think it's more likely that Mario 64, one of the most analyzed and popular games that has ever existed, has a flat out broken mechanic instead of your hands being at fault?

[Anonymous No.9545752]

>>9545725
how is pointing out you are calling a game overrated that had much better controls than EVERYTHING when it was released grasping at straws, you shitposting dog?

[Anonymous No.9545757]

>>9545707
Cool video and all but it doesn't represent someone who's gonna play it the first time and introductions matter. When you get served the best designed levels right away, and then there's a gap of shit, and then it's back to decently designed levels, that's called whiplash. Also Im not representative of vr, my only complaint of 64 is it's bad level order and bad camera. You can keep saying "oh but it was the first real game with camera controls" all you want, but it's still bad at the end of the day. I don't really care what came first or what restrictions they had, it's still being final product and it effects the game in the end.

[Anonymous No.9545759]

>>9545752
>had much better controls than EVERYTHING when it was released
mario 64 has much better controls than everything currently as well, give it some credit

[Anonymous No.9545763]

>Mario 64 isn't too hard for me! It's just...cheap!!!

[Anonymous No.9545764]

>>9545757
>You can keep saying "oh but it was the first real game with camera controls" all you want, but it's still bad at the end of the day.
As someone who actually plays games and knows what early 3D games with bad camera feel like (Goemon), no

[Anonymous No.9545767]

>>9545742
Stop projecting your life on the most critically acclaimed game of all time just because your working class parents couldn't afford two consoles

[Anonymous No.9545771]

>>9545757
>You can keep saying "oh but it was the first real game with camera controls" all you want, but it's still bad at the end of the day.
No it's not, Mario 64 is obviously a very easy game no matter what so the camera is not a big factor in how you play the game.

[Anonymous No.9545781]

>>9545568
mgs2

[Anonymous No.9545789]

>>9545767
It's okay, I got bored from it after getting to the Hyrule fields as kid. I oddly got more enjoyment out of banjo tooie with all of It's glorious 10 fps.

[Anonymous No.9545791]

>35 posts in
>no Sega mention
>when all their at best mediocre games got 100% scores thrown at them, be it Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, Panzer Dragoon, a generic fighting game or that fucking dolphin game because they blatantly moneyhatted reviewers which manifests in how all the 90% Sega games are suddenly 70% games on other consoles
Not an honest thread, just OP being obsessed with Nintendo

[Anonymous No.9545798]

>>9545791

[Anonymous No.9545846]

>>9545568
OoT is definitely more overrated than Mario 64

[Anonymous No.9545868]

>>9545789
Banjo-Tooie has a beautiful world to explore, oozing with charm. So does OoT actually, but that's the real problem with SM64. Not the great controls and camera (for the time), it's the meh world aside from the castle itself and Bob-omb Battlefield. Every kid would rather be in Treasure Trove Cove or probably some levels in Spyro and Crash and other platformers. Mario Sunshine moved more in the Banjo-Tooie direction with its beautiful fleshed out setting where you could see other parts of the island from each other.

[Anonymous No.9545885]

>>9545846
I feel like the people who overrate these games didn't actually play them on actual hardware, because emulation can help oot's low fps and can let you use any controller you want for mario 64.

[Anonymous No.9545890]

Overrated is a buzzword

[Anonymous No.9545897]

>>9545657
>be anon
>have parkinson's and/or too retarded to tell which buttons he's pressing
>"long jump doesn't always work & butt stomps instead"
Z+A is a long jump, A+Z is a ground pound. This aspect of the game, as with literally every other function in the code, has been thoroughly documented. You remind me of this Indian whose laptop I was troubleshooting. I wanted him to open up task manager and told him to press Ctrl+Shift+Esc. He pressed Control and let go of it, then pressed shift and let go of it. You don't have to actively give it any thought to instantaneously realise why that is retarded.

[Anonymous No.9545902]

>>9545621
Tetris in general or the gameboy version in particular? If you just don't like the gameboy port that's fine, but Tetris in general is probably the best game ever made.

[Anonymous No.9545905]

>>9545885
The UltraHLE kids weren't playing OoT at a cinematic 30fps by any means

[Anonymous No.9545910]

>>9545752
I'm not OP silly, just commenting on the thumbsticks remark

[Anonymous No.9545914]

>>9545868
Now that I think about it, yeah Mario 64 is pretty bland in terms of atmosphere, it doesn't help when they reuse the same tracks over and over. Don't get me wrong they aren't bad songs, but the banjo kazooie series literally bleeds charm at ever corner, underwater music, funny characters and great world design, especially in tooie imo. Gameplay can be argued because Mario obviously has a greater moveset and the replayability from that is huge. But from a first time playthrough, banjo kazooie will always have the charm of it all

[Anonymous No.9545919]

>>9545714
The only bad level in Mario 64 is rainbow ride because there's so much fucking waiting on carpets for the stars at the top of the level.

[Anonymous No.9545923]

>>9545791
Yeah Panzer Dragoon and Virtua Fighter are pretty weak imo. Ecco has a nice soundtrack (SEGA CD version of course) but it's also kind of hard to get into.

[Anonymous No.9545924]

>>9545905
30 is generous, it went down to 20 fps sometimes. I was a kid at the time so it never bothered me, but holy shit, when I got a ps2 couple years later, the game looked like shit in comparison lmao, I was playing more shovelware garbage over oot

[Anonymous No.9545935]

>>9545924
I don't believe UltraHLE had frame interpolation. The original game was capped at 20, so if you were running at 30fps at any point, the actual game speed would have been 50% higher

[Anonymous No.9545937]

>>9545738
Tetris was largely inspired by pentaminoes

[Anonymous No.9545948]

>>9545935
I guess my memory is watering down how bad the fps drops were, I'm the banjo tooie guy btw, so 15 fps max felt playable

[Anonymous No.9545967]

>>9545568
Chrono tr(n)igger

[Anonymous No.9545970]

>>9545603
>You shouldn't point out flaws in my game or else you're not good at it
weird, anyway here's another flaw

[Anonymous No.9545979]

>>9545568
Final Fantasy Tactics. The whole game, and the battles, are long, tedious and boring.

[Anonymous No.9546062]

>>9545596
>especially with all the shit games making it to the top nowadays
ALttP and OoT are absolute classics but later Zelda games and Souls improved on them

[Anonymous No.9546253]

>>9545937
Inspired, but both function differently.

[sage No.9546332]

>>9545568
The controls weren't wonky at all.
You had full control over the camera and its multiple perspectives.

[Anonymous No.9546354]

>>9545568
>Relying too much on wonky controls with camera angles constantly working against you, and calling it a challenge
You're assuming Mario 64 is supposed to be a challenge?

[Anonymous No.9546378]

Mario 64, OoT, FFVII, all overrated. Does that mean they're bad? Not at all. They were the first switch to 3D in their respective franchises, and at the time were actually really good.

AT THE TIME.

Once the technology took, they were all quickly overtaken by bigger and better, but for some reason, because they were "first", that somehow cements their status as "Godlike".

No. I can recognise that they were good then, and good now, but fuck me, they're far from the be-all-end-all that people make them out to be.

[Anonymous No.9546398]

It's bad mainly because it moved away from the obstacle course kind of gameplay Mario is supposed to have.

>>9545791
>Crazy Taxi

Much better than Mario 64 for sure. SEGA games usually have more variety+quality than Nintendo games, which kinda started to go bad and become too consolized after the NES. SEGA tried all sorts of genres, while Nintendo kept rehashing the same type of gameplay.

[Anonymous No.9546407]

>>9545979
you are right, and any time i replay this i increase the speed thru emulator

[Anonymous No.9546465]

>>9546062
None of the Zelda games after Majora's Mask are better than any of the ones before (except MAYBE botw)

[Anonymous No.9546478]

>bland-ass characters
>time travel rules apply only when it suits the plot
>time travel is so poorly implemented you might as well just travel between differently advanced continents
>extremely easy
>the battle screen is just a paintjob, position is irrelevant
>ugly character art, luckily the sprite style masks it well

[Anonymous No.9546657]

>>9545746
He said few first hours, faggot never even played the games to give an exact point.

[Anonymous No.9546667]

>>9546478
DBZ ruined Toriyama's art style

[Anonymous No.9546683]

>>9546478
I agree with most of it except for the characters art, they are great are pretty much iconic, everybody can recognize Chrono and co. while others JRPGs of the era (and now days to) had generic anime looking characters.

[Anonymous No.9546693]

>>9546667
Way before DB he had problems with same faces, in Dr. Slump, Midori and Akane had the same face to the point of having having its own chapter jocking about it.

[Anonymous No.9546709]

>>9545568
I'll agree with you on the camera stuff, but the controls are tight. Sunshine is the pinnacle of controls in all the Mario games though. Also, my choice for most over rated. The world was all the same stuff. 64 at least had atmosphere and soul. Sunshine had NONE. But, the game play is so good.

[Anonymous No.9546734]

>>9546378
They're all still great games. I'd rather play them than most new games. You need to jump off your high horse and realize it's just your opinion, which is in the minority of opinions about these games, especially oot. People still fucking love that game.

[Anonymous No.9546756]

>>9545568
>Mario 64
>wonky controls
the state of /vr/

[Anonymous No.9546764]

>>9546756
>erm actually the controls are great

[Anonymous No.9547854]

>>9546734
Did you accidentally miss the part where I said - twice - that they were still good games, or are you a professional fucking retard?

[Anonymous No.9547868]

>>9545568
it's funny I feel the game shines in bowser levels cuz you can place your camera sideways and do some good ol platforming

[Anonymous No.9547979]

>>9545621
>Does anyone played Tetris for more than one hour?
Oh boy wait till you find out about the competitive Tetris scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlnlDKznIaw

[Anonymous No.9547986]

Pretty much any JRPG, but especially Final Fantasy games. They literally aren't good games. They're not fun to play.

Runner-up is the Silent Hill series, which feels clunky and mediocre compared to Resident Evil, and is propped up by it's prestige of being the "art" series, because it ripped off Jacob's Ladder, and contains some allusions to basic psychology.

Number three would be Metal Gear Sold, which actually has pretty poor gameplay compared to MGS2, or other stealth games such as Thief, but people don't want to admit to this, for some reason.

Four, any MS DOS platformer that people pretend is as good as what was on the consoles, because they were stuck with it as a kid. Commander Keen is kind of shit. Duke Nukem 1 is kind of shit. I'm sorry.

[Anonymous No.9548012]

>>9546378
And what are some modern games that blow them out of the water? Genuinely asking.

[Anonymous No.9548020]

>>9545568
>trouble beating sm64
this is what happens when a generation of kids grow up on vidya that literally lets them skip the parts they suck at

[Anonymous No.9548027]

>>9548020
Mario 64 does that tho

But yeah, if you're having any trouble beating Mario 64, you are bad at video games.
You have not learned to play video games, because of the crutches you have been offered by modern game design. You're filtered by something 6 year olds were able to beat in the 90's, and that's sad.

[Anonymous No.9548031]

>>9545621
dude, Tetris as a puzzle game is on par with the Rubik Cube.

>>9545791
Crazy Taxi was fucking gigantic in its day, the later ports got bad reputation because 1. they usually have some technical problem, 2. sometimes they even change the music, and 3. they came out too late and the late 90s aesthetic was already aged. with that said, I really liked Crazy Taxi 3. The desert level was impressive looking, and I liked the psychobilly/rockabilly music (they had Brian Setzer songs in there!).

[Anonymous No.9548038]

>>9548020
>>9548027
Relax kids, no one is having trouble here.

[Anonymous No.9548052]

>Sonic (all of them)
Shit excuses for platformers or speed platformers. It pisses me off to no end how one of these gets labeled as the best Genesis game, when there are so many better objective games. If you like running into walls and obstacles all the time or having a floaty uncontrollable character to fully explore a level, then this is your game. This is made for people too stupid to enjoy Mario with no standards.

>FF7
Huge step back from FF6. Only popular because of muh CGI, muh cutscenes muh edgy anime characters. The gameplay sucked. The plethora of good mini-games was the one good thing about this game.

>Halo
To this day I still don't know why this became popular. Good texture map graphics, and a dedicated grenade button. Other than that nothing about this game is more than basic generic space FPS #345. Everything else has been done better and years before in the FPS genre. It added nothing groundbreaking or new besides muh two weapons and muh grenade button. The first Turok was more groundbreaking and better for fuck sake and it didn't even have multiplayer it was so ahead of it's time.

[Anonymous No.9548259]

>>9547868
Yes, but if you move the camera at all it never resets to what it was. That's one of the problems w it.

>>9548020
>>9548027
Who said I couldn't beat it (its actually easy as fuck)? I said it was overrated, and that any "challenge" comes strictly from the glaring issues of controls, cheap shots & camera fuckery.

You zooms lack reading comprehension I think & jump ahead in your minds 3 spaces from what was actually said. No wonder everything triggers you.

[Anonymous No.9548278]

>>9548052
I bet you are real fun to hang out with at parties

[Anonymous No.9548286]

>>9548278
I see where you're coming from, but I can go into depth further for why games are good.

[Anonymous No.9548325]

camera is the only issue with sm64

[Anonymous No.9548330]

>>9548286
Your opinion is worthless, your life a lie.

[Anonymous No.9548339]

>>9548286
Ok I'm curious, what are your top genesis and psx games?

[Anonymous No.9548397]

>>9548339
MUSHA, Granada, Castle of Illusion
SOTN, GT2, Bushido Blade

Just off the top of my head. I was an N64 kid, even though I had a PS1. Just not many games because I was waiting for the PS2. SNES kid too, and I am just getting into the Genesis so I don't have very defined choices right now.

[Anonymous No.9548432]

>>9545621
Man youre so off base about tetris its laughable. This game was so addictive you had multiple comapanies from several western nations breaching the iron curtain trying to make a deal with the soviet union just to get the rights to publish it.

[Anonymous No.9548451]

>>9548259
Mario 64 has good controls, and a perfectly serviceable camera.

[Anonymous No.9548471]

>>9545970
That's two non-flaws so far.

[Anonymous No.9548480]

Mario 64 was one of the first technically correct 3D platformers ever made. Saying it's overrated or isn't perfectly playable is just dumb.

[Anonymous No.9549483]

>>9548278
anyone who thinks parties are good are most likely boring mongoloids. Cry more

[Anonymous No.9549516]

Zelda as a franchise. Only the first two titles were any good.

[Anonymous No.9549635]

>>9548052
You are a retard

[Anonymous No.9549654]

>>9545621
This. Puzzle games are fucking gay.

[Anonymous No.9549729]

>>9545568
Sonic 1 and 2

[Anonymous No.9549743]

>>9545621
No youre right, it's like ranking minesweeper.

[Anonymous No.9549881]

>>9549635
>You are a retard

[Anonymous No.9549957]

>overrated thread
>most games are rated exactly where they should be
:thinking_emoji:

[Anonymous No.9549993]

>>9548052
How was 7 a step back from 6? I can understand not liking the direction it went in, but I don’t see how it regressed in any way.

[Anonymous No.9550000]

>Overrated games
>Posting games that defined genres or set new standards for the medium
Come on lads

[Anonymous No.9550001]

>>9546693
I've played CT a few times, watched all of DBZ, and played a couple DQ games and it's never bothered me. I don't even see how it could. Like a character comes on screen and you go "oh gawd, not Toriyama face #2 again...I can't take it, I'll go crazy!"

[Anonymous No.9550720]

>>9545683
Yeah how dare game designers expect players to overcome obstacles.

The game was a little rough at times, but it was never unfair.

[Anonymous No.9551531]

>>9548471
Collecting Golden skulturas wasn't fun at all.

[Anonymous No.9553039]

>>9545568
Street Fighter 2 is a terrible fighting game and only became such a culture landmark because there was literally nothing to compare it to.

[Anonymous No.9553218]

>>9547986
Who are you to define what's fun?

[Anonymous No.9553381]

>>9545568
I've never understood why people were interested in Killer Instinct, even when it was new. It always seemed as bland and trashy as Rise of the Robots and Pit Fighter.

[Anonymous No.9553390]

>>9553218
You can like what you like, but turn based RPGs that don't even have good turn based combat is like the biggest anti-game I can imagine.
FF games seem to be for people who want a story, and to watch battle animations while numbers go up, and to not have to really think very much, or to have anything required of them in terms of reflexes.

[Anonymous No.9553452]

>>9545568
Honest answer: FFVI. Whoever considers it one of the greatest games of all time must be joking. It's a huge "plot and number of characters >>> everything" game, and not even a good one at that. I guess it really got memed to hell after FFVII when kids discovered ZSNES and started praising everything Square.

[Anonymous No.9553463]

>>9551531
True, but then again that's a sidequest that you're free to ignore, and there actually are people that enjoy that shit. That's not a flaw, that's just some extra content that you don't like.

[Anonymous No.9553464]

>>9545596
Mario is slippery as fuck. Camera is ass to control and move and puts you in bad places. Tight spaces (Tiny Huge Island) are a bitch to even walk on because of that.

[Anonymous No.9553473]

Half-Life 2 if it counts as "retro"
MGS3 and San Andreas to a lesser extent

[Anonymous No.9553545]

>>9553464
This lol. Retards here will call that's a "challenge" tho. Tough obstacles that take skill, good hand eye, etc are one thing, but just fighting against the game itself is totally something else.

You shouldn't be falling off cliffs, missing jumps, etc simply because of bad camera work or Mario decides to step outwards before he turns around.

[Anonymous No.9553579]

>>9553473
GTA games are legitimately bad. I had my fun with it when I was 12, but it's a total meme series, really.
Relatively impressive scope and freedom for it's time, sure, but does anyone actually think the mission design is great? Does anyone think the combat or the driving are really fun? Does anyone think the storylines are good? Does anyone actually find the juvenile humour funny?

[Anonymous No.9553597]

>>9553579
A lot of people actually do, yes. But you're right, most of the draw is the societal reaction.

[Anonymous No.9553619]

>>9553545
The thing is, I have no recollection of that ever happening.
And I have played the game recently. Like within the last two years.
The only thing that's frustrating about the game on the technical level is that sometimes the draw distance isn't what it needs to be.

[Anonymous No.9553664]

>>9553579
I do like driving in the PS2 games, it has a certain feel to it

[Anonymous No.9553692]

>>9553464
>Camera
Lakitu camera is fucking abysmal but if you select the one with Mario's face it makes the game a whole lot more playable

[Anonymous No.9553762]

>>9553390
>>9547986
You need to go play FF1/2 on NES or PSX

[Anonymous No.9553771]

I don't dislike a lot of games. Yes, I actually enjoy games and I'm rather open and understanding with games.

However, I can think of three well rated games that I REALLY, REALLY disliked.
>Outlaws
>Destiny of an Emperor
>Mother 3

[Anonymous No.9553772]

>>9553762
Does the combat amount to more than mashing "attack" a lot of times, and then healing when necessary?

[Anonymous No.9553810]

>>9553772
In FF1 NES, you would miss if you tried to attack an enemy that another party member had already killed.

[Anonymous No.9554659]

>>9553810
That still barely counts as thought, you're just keeping track of how much HP an enemy has and then doing something different if you realize an attack would negate more HP than an enemy has left. It's basic optimization that doesn't amount to any kind of tactical creativity, and you can still flub this without being punished too much.

[Anonymous No.9554875]

>>9545621
You're not just a zoomer you're a retard, I've literally played my original cart from 1989 for thousands of hours

[Anonymous No.9555505]

>>9554659
>i-it doesn't count because I said so!!!

Truly, you are right. Rest assured that any JRPG is bad by design and any arguement to the contrary should be dismissed without playing the games so you can remain right.

[Anonymous No.9555510]

>>9555505
Dude, you have no idea how much I wish this wasn't true.

[Anonymous No.9555545]

Ocarina of time is the most overrated crap ever made. Luckily oot has been more exposed than ever.

[Anonymous No.9555585]

>>9555545
I have no reason to believe that fans of other games actually enjoy their favorite games more than people who have OoT as their favorite do.

I just don't see people praising other titles with the kind of genuine awe and astonishment that you get from people who have experienced what OoT can offer. Even the few things OoT demonstrably doesn't do as well as it could or which other Zelda games pull off better are things that in principle shouldn't even require the game to be changed that much to fix, since the foundation it offers is so rock solid.

I really can imagine that people who think, say, that HL2, RE4 or Chrono Trigger are the best games ever enjoy actually them on the same level.

[Anonymous No.9555706]

>>9555585
It's probably overrated somewhat. A little bit, at least. Because it would be more accurate to call it like "the greatest Nintendo game" or "the greatest console game of the 90s" or something like that to qualify it. It definitely made an impact, and it owes that largely to being a 3D debut that absolutely nailed it. In hindsight it seems like bias towards consoles and Nintendo specifically. Which I guess is fair, however it would be nice to see some perspective.
Maybe gaming isn't made for that, maybe it's too inconsequential, although looking at the kind of hyper-critical arguments we get up to on these topics you wouldn't think so.

Ocarina is the perfect example of Miyamoto's design philosophy. Everything is balanced, easy and charming.

[Anonymous No.9556031]

>>9555706
>Because it would be more accurate to call it like "the greatest Nintendo game" or "the greatest console game of the 90s" or something like that to qualify it.

No, I can't agree, it absolutely blew everything else out of the water on release, and on the year with the most stacked releases ever. It's everything else that then needed qualification as "the best of [x] genre".

I also can't agree with the idea of 'Nintendo bias', because they just really are that good and if anything it's at least as common to see people ignoring their merits because their games typically don't wear their complexity on their sleeve and instead leave their depth tastefully hidden.

[Anonymous No.9556598]

>>9556031
I can appreciate that it did something no other game did, in terms of a 3D fantasy adventure. I think the nature of the game as a fantasy, as a fairy tale, contributes more than is admitted to how memorable it is. The overall presentation, the storytelling and camerawork etc., has that special touch that just feels 'perfect'.

But it's not perfect. In terms of a game, it's just Zelda. It doesn't try to do too much, and excels at everything it does try. That's what I mean about it being a Nintendo thing, it's not just about bias, it's the way Nintendo products are crafted to have no rough edges.

If we look at the top games of 1998, let me know if I overlook anything important:
>Baldur's Gate
>Grim Fandango
>Metal Gear Solid
>Oddworld
>Panzer Dragoon Saga
>Parasite Eve
>Resident Evil 2
>StarCraft Brood War
>Thief
There's definitely some huge titles in there, all-time great titles. Two things. One, if Ocarina is better than all those games, it's definitely one of the greatest games, but that still doesn't make it THE greatest game.
Two, I deny that it is hands down better than all of those games. Some of them have better gameplay. This is why I've been talking about the presentation so much. I think Ocarina gets credit for being 'magical'. It makes the player feel a greater sense of wonder than pretty much any game because it's a beautifully crafted fairy tale adventure. It has all kinds of charming little details like Link's vocalizations, or simply the way the textures and colours of the objects look.
It deserves a lot of credit for that, but has also been overrated for the same reason.

[Anonymous No.9556706]

>>9545568
it's the most influential 3D game, basically citizen Kane of video games.

[Anonymous No.9557446]

>>9545568

[Anonymous No.9557465]

>>9553579
>but does anyone actually think the mission design is great? Does anyone think the combat or the driving are really fun? Does anyone think the storylines are good? Does anyone actually find the juvenile humour funny?
Yes
Yes
Yes

[Anonymous No.9557761]

>>9557465
why?

[Anonymous No.9557783]

>>9545568
>this is overrated
>that is overrated
>overrated overrated overrated hurr durr
Do you niggers even like videogames?

[Anonymous No.9557809]

>>9556598
>it's just Zelda
it's the game that defined what zelda is
alttp was the basis but oot refined and "perfected" that base
>One, if Ocarina is better than all those games, it's definitely one of the greatest games, but that still doesn't make it THE greatest game.
if we're just gonna compare titles to each other we're never gonna get a "best game ever" because each different game does different things very well
ocarina is good enough to be someone's personal favorite of all time and that's sufficient for me
just like mgs, brood war, re2, panzer dragoon etc are also good enough for that
in that sense i don't feel it's overrated if it's in the same category as brood war, thief, mgs1, etc

[Anonymous No.9559398]

>>9545568
Yoshi's Island and Resident Evil 4.

[Anonymous No.9559401]

>>9557446
This one for sure.

[Anonymous No.9559402]

>>9557783
No, i just like posting online.

[Anonymous No.9559484]

>>9557809
The notion of there being a greatest game of all time is such a joke in the first place, because you simply can't compare different genres that are trying to do very different things.
The question should be "is OOT the greatest action adventure game of all time?", and I don't know. It might be.

Alternatives might be Majora's Mask, Metroid Prime, Beyond Good and Evil...
I don't know. There's not a hell of a lot of games you can look at and really say "yeah, that game beat OOT at it's own thing". Even the ones I can appreciate a lot like Okami, or Wind Waker, or Little Big Adventure. They have a lot of little issues, and aren't as solid a game on the whole as OOT is.

Personally, I might edge toward Metroid Prime as the greatest action adventure, but that's just me. I like space settings.

[Anonymous No.9559526]

>>9559484
>The notion of there being a greatest game of all time is such a joke in the first place
yeah i agree. i don't even think there's a singular best one for each genre either
people should just say which one is their favorite or favorites and why and that's it
but people like big important #1 of all time so discourse is always gonna be centered around why this game is THE BEST EVER despite the wealth of games out there
regardless, to answer op's question...i don't think sm64 or oot are overrated at all. to me it's probably chrono trigger, it's a very good game that i love but i think there are plenty games in the same generation and after that are still retro that do things better and i've enjoyed far more

[Anonymous No.9559528]

>>9546398
>crazy taxi
>variety

[Anonymous No.9559639]

>>9557809
My argument works against itself too. If Ocarina is 'overrated' because of how the game's setting, story, presentation, and craftsmanship combine to make the player subjectively feel moved more so than other games, and that's what puts it ahead, then that's what puts it ahead. Those were deliberate decisions made by Nintendo and they deserve credit for making them.
Personally, I didn't play most of the console games from the 1998 list I posted, only MGS, and I would say pretty readily that Ocarina is better than that game. Which is saying a lot, because MGS is an amazing fucking game.
When you look at PC, it's a little harder. I'm a player who favours single-player experiences, but when I look at Starcraft I have to give credit to what it is as a game. I think it is arguably better than Ocarina of Time, but then you get into the subjective argument because the genres and the experience of playing those two games are so different.

[Anonymous No.9559645]

>>9545683
You are literally just bad at the game lol

[Anonymous No.9559649]

>>9545924
>ps2 shovelware over OoT
Nice. I also never looked back at n64 after I got my dreamcast. N64 games ran and played like absolute shit and for whatever reason they only got worse as the years went on.

[Anonymous No.9559661]

>>9546756
Smw controls better.

[Anonymous No.9559663]

>>9548020
This would have helped millions clear tricky nes and Genesis games. To this day I don't know how to kill robot eggman in Sonic 2.

[Anonymous No.9559675]

>>9549516
>Zelda as a franchise. Only the first two titles were any good.

Jesus Christ

[Anonymous No.9559685]

>>9548052
Chemical Plant Zone is better than all your Mario games combined.

[Anonymous No.9559730]

>>9559685
Why though, cause it looks cool? It does look really cool.