/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9544427]

What are examples of retro games that had a bad initial version but got a re-release (or a mod) that significantly overhauled it into a great game?

Not examples like Street Fighter 3 or Kingdom Hearts 2 which have rereleases that are much better, since their vanilla versions are still good. I want something that was MEDIOCRE or BAD but got redeemed.

Pic related, Odin Sphere & the Leifthrasir version.

[Anonymous No.9544438]

None. If a game was bad, the devs simply made a new game that was better. Only good, popular games were worth giving expansions.

[Anonymous No.9544440]

>>9544427
Not bad but improved.

DQ 1/2/3 on SNES. I still enjoy the NES versions, especially 3.

[Anonymous No.9544448]

Most people didn't think SF3:NG was good. Even Japan stopped running tournaments for that game the instant 2I came out, and Japan never "just drops" games.

[Anonymous No.9544467]

>>9544427
Metal Gear Solid 3

[Anonymous No.9544470]

>>9544427

MGS1 to Twin Snakes.

[Anonymous No.9544494]

>>9544467
The overhead camera wasn't that bad, was it? I only played Subsistence
>>9544470
Troll

[Anonymous No.9544498]

>>9544427
Resident Evil to RE Director's Cut. The changes they made to the difficulty made the original a fucking chore to play through. And I beat the original PS1 release and Saturn port.

[Anonymous No.9544505]

>>9544427
Metroid to ZM
Metroid 2 to AM2R

[Anonymous No.9544506]

>>9544494
It was not, but I still get what that guy is talking about, because MGS3S felt like an entirely different game. Take into account that I only played them initially two weeks apart. I was shocked I had considered the first version so good when I suddenly had the real deal.

Just the fact that enemies can see further than your default camera in MGS3 makes it awkward.

[Anonymous No.9544515]

The original Valis games are terrible. Only the PC Engine re-releases and Sharp X68000 version of Valis 2 are any good.

[Anonymous No.9544660]

>>9544505
These don't count. ZM and AM2R are remakes, not rereleases. The metric I'm going by is if the game uses the same art assets then it's not a remake.

[Anonymous No.9544675]

>>9544427
Are fan-mods allowed?
https://newlegacy.fr/

[Anonymous No.9544678]

Vanilla SFIII is awful

>>9544448
NG is basically early access and 2nd Impact is the actual game. 3rd Strike is really one of the most radically different continuations of a sub-series behind Alpha 3 to the point I'd struggle to count it as a new version of 2I rather than just a sequel, it doesn't carry over much but character sprites and the surface level of a couple sub-systems the animations for come with those.

[Anonymous No.9544956]

>>9544660
Then Odin Sphere doesn't actually count by your definition then, because they redrew all the art assets.

[Anonymous No.9544965]

>>9544427
Vandal Hearts 2 has player and enemy turns taking place simultaneously, so you'd go to hit an enemy, but it decided to move to another tile so you hit nothing. A hack fixed this by making it like every other SRPG where everyone takes turns properly, so it went from being shit to actually being good. It's odd that 2 was like this in the first place, since the first Vandal Hearts game was normal.

[Anonymous No.9544982]

>>9544956
Hence why I made the thread asking for True examples

[Anonymous No.9545004]

>>9544427
how is the Leifþrasir version better? I've only played the original.

[Anonymous No.9545006]

Turok was shit for over a decade before Nightdive made it good

[Anonymous No.9545007]

I don't know if this really fits what you're asking for but the first week or so of Tribes 2 was super rough. Various things didn't work right, vehicles controlled super weird and sensitively. It was pretty funny, you'd see someone order a heavy transport, watch it get filled up with guys then take off only to fly off to one side, flip over, crash into a building and explode.

It was kind of a different time though because everyone playing in that first week knew it was going to get fixed and so no one I knew thought of it as bad exactly. And indeed once they worked out the glitches it was one of the greatest shooters of it's day by a long shot.

>>9544678
Also this.

[Anonymous No.9545012]

Metal Slug 2 to Metal Slug X, apparently

[Anonymous No.9546560]

The canonical game which was worse in every way on the initial system, and which was perfect when remade, is Pokemon.

[Anonymous No.9546741]

>>9544427
Doom the mods fixed it ;)

[Anonymous No.9546743]

>>9544427
Odin Sphere vanilla is fine, only issue is occasionally the framerate.

[Anonymous No.9546749]

>>9546560
Boom.
I feel bad for having missed it.

[Anonymous No.9546810]

>>9544427
What the fuck was wrong with Odin Sphere to begin with beyond the usual Vanillaware jank?

[Anonymous No.9546978]

>>9546810
Too repetitive
>>9544427
A bunch of hd ps3 Remasters are better. Like peace walker

[Anonymous No.9546984]

>>9546978
>Too repetitive
So like every Vanillaware game.

[Anonymous No.9547004]

>>9544467
>>9544506
The controllable camera was a nice addition and since you could toggle between it and the "cinematic" one at any time there was no real downside. But I find it weird how many people have this completely erroneous impression that the vanilla MGS3 camera was some kind of major problem. It wasn't.

First of all, you have first-person view, binoculars and scoped weapons. You can see as far as you want in any direction at any time so if you're running into enemies who caught you off-guard it's because you're impatient and were just plowing straight ahead indiscriminately.

And secondly, the camera isn't a static overhead one like so many people incorrectly describe it, the zoom and angle chance according to the terrain and enemy location so you're almost always getting a pretty good view of whatever you need to be looking at. The fixed camera is actually much better to use in certain segments, like some of the parts where you're climbing the mountainside and it zooms way out to give you a full field of view that you can't get from a camera centered on snake. And even though the camera is "fixed" you can still use the right analog stick to move the frame around. The fixed camera in MGS3 is about as good as a fixed camera can be. I understand why people still wanted some more control but it wasn't really ever a problem

[Anonymous No.9547015]

>>9547004
For a Foxhound run, the original camera has its moments where it's superior to Subsistence's, but most of the time it's really bad and will cause you to get seen from offscreen. MGS3 changed the terrain and level design too much from 2 to get away with maintaining the same camera.

[Anonymous No.9547041]

>>9545007
That game was so rushed out the door and seemed to have a jazillion patches as a result.

[Anonymous No.9547108]

>>9544427
Street Fighter 2: World Warrior was already good, but over time they kept refining and adding to the game that it has become a great game. It is better now than it was back in the early 90s.

[Anonymous No.9547153]

>>9547015
>most of the time it's really bad and will cause you to get seen from offscreen

Again, it will if if you're just running around out in the open like it's not a stealth game but this myth about enemies seeing you before you even have a chance is bullshit. If you're careful, maintain cover and scope out the area before deciding how to proceed there are zero situations where the game funnels you into some kind of ambush that you couldn't see coming.

Now, that doesn't mean you won't misjudge when soldiers will turn their backs or forget about some random guy who sees you from a distance but that doesn't change with the subsistence camera. If anything, it has way more "blind spots," especially in places like the stairs in the warehouse. A lot of the rooms were clearly designed knowing the cmaera would pull back and show a panoramic view and it just doesn't work over the shoulder. Like I said, it's a nice option to have and adds to the game but it's not some drastic improvement that fixes something horribly broken in the original. The game was fine without it

[Anonymous No.9547638]

ART
https://www.deviantart.com/eastmonkey/gallery
https://twitter.com/FungKinChew

>>9547108
Sf2 TURBO was best. Didn't need 4 new characters or super meter.

[Anonymous No.9548565]

>>9544427
I remember when it became a "big deal" when games started getting released in potentially buggy/unfinished states under the assumption that they would receive patches over the internet to fix them after release. This was when a lot of people were still on dialup or shitty DSL and downloading large game changes was a difficult task for many. Developers were kind of blasted for this "new normal" at the time.

[Anonymous No.9548589]

>>9548565
I still play new shit and till my last breath or when im finally done with the modern industry, i will always refuse to accept this new normal. If a company cant release something in an atleast "acceptable" state, then its a bad game. The product on release should reflect your quality and what you believe the buyer deserves. No, im not going to let you "finish it later".

[Anonymous No.9548593]

>>9545004
Seconding this. Besides being "High Definition" what's the difference?

[Anonymous No.9548596]

>>9544438
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.9548608]

>>9548565
Pre-patch gaming had more unfinished games than modern gaming. The only issue introduced by modern gaming is the day-1 patch. For instance Age of Empires 3 version 1.0 isn't playable. Literally unplayable. It will crash two to five seconds into the game unless you install the day-1 patch. This was noteworthy at the time but is considered normal today.

[Anonymous No.9548615]

>>9544438
Retard take.

[Anonymous No.9548626]

>>9545006
but everyone loved the N64 games

[Anonymous No.9548632]

>>9544427
Rittai Ninja Katsugeki: Tenchu.

The original Japanese version is mediocre at best. LOTS of issues. Thankfully, it got a NTSC-U and PAL release that ironed out a lot of said issues, added a plethora of content, and made it the legendary game we know today (Tenchu: Stealth Assassin).

It also got 1 JP (NTSC-J) only release (Rittai Ninja Katsugeki Tenchu: Shinobi Gaisen) that was pretty much an upgrade based on the world-wide re-release, as well as version that was just a compilation of 120 user-made maps.

[Anonymous No.9548635]

>>9544427
Sin was buggy as hell on release and had some of the worst loading times ever seen but it got patched after release. Unfortunately it was 1998 and the patch was pretty damn big for downloading via dial up at over 30 megs
You might think that Sin is a pretty decent game even with some bugs so it doesn't qualify here but try waiting several MINUTES at each loading screen and you'll curse it to the deepest pit in hell

[Anonymous No.9548641]

>>9548608
And those games were treated bad. Now people spend 70 monies on things they know will be unfinished and gladly accept it under the assumption they will be fixed later.

[Anonymous No.9548660]

>>9548635
>worst loading times
This still amazes me. It's bad even TO THIS DAY on a modern machine. I don't know if anyone has ever bothered to decompile it but I can't imagine what they had to intentionally get wrong to get load times that shit.

[Anonymous No.9548676]

>>9548593
better combat for every character

[Anonymous No.9548823]

>>9548593
Solid 60fps with no frame drops, completely overhauled combat system and a new chef. Probably other stuff, too, but those are the ones I remember.

You can also play the vanilla version of the game with the new art assets and 60fps, so even if you want the vanilla experience, it's the best version, since the PS2 game would dip into 5fps during the skeleton tiddy boss fight.

[Anonymous No.9548853]

Sonic Adventure's original rushed 1998 release vs Sonic Adventure International in 1999
Animal Forest for N64 vs. Animal Crossing
Street Fighter The Movie's arcade version vs. the console version
PowerSlave PC vs. Console
GTA 1/2 Console vs. PC
NES Tetris vs. Tengen Tetris
Ace Attorney GBA vs. DS

If you stretch the definition a little: both Leisure Suit Larry 1 (originally Softporn Adventure) and Rance 1 got multiple superior rereleases, some of them using the same assets.

[Chud Anon No.9549025]

>>9544427
Daikatana with the AI fixed

[Anonymous No.9549369]

>>9547041
It wasn't really rushed, it took a long time to come out but with a game as big as that back then there weren't really ways to test some things before release. But to me a rough start that leads to a great game in the end is way better than a just good game that gets released finished but not as perfect as it could be.

If anything, the proof is in the pudding in that with Tribes 1 the late fame was almost all mod servers because that was what was most fun. But in Tribes 2 it was so much better balanced eventually that even big mods like Shifter never caught on as much and most just played vanilla servers or slight mods.

[Anonymous No.9549386]

>>9544467
honestly prefer the overhead camera still

[Anonymous No.9549391]

>>9544506
>makes it awkward
not really, never had issues with this, these games are easy, how did people have issues with this? all you have to do is avoid being seen. 3rdps cam must be some kind of retard proof thing.

[Anonymous No.9549392]

>>9547015
you must be bad at video games

[Anonymous No.9549439]

Why the fuck does Nexus have a logical default button layout then AC4 has a completely retarded one.

[Anonymous No.9549450]

>>9548853
Whats the differences for GTA?

[Anonymous No.9549626]

>>9549450
looking back it might've not been that major, mostly improved graphic resolution and sound quality

[Anonymous No.9549668]

>>9546743
Iirc battles with the underworld queen dropped the frame rate hard.

[Anonymous No.9549816]

>>9548853
>Sonic Adventure's original rushed 1998 release vs Sonic Adventure International in 1999
What's the diff here?

[Anonymous No.9549913]

>>9544660
Does Metroid Planets count? It's a PC re-release that adds QOL like a map and proper saving. I just played it and had a blast and I grew up on the OG Metroid and I (have no idea how I did it back then) but even beat it.

https://forum.metroidconstruction.com/index.php/topic,4952.0.html

>>9544678
All I remember is I was happily playing MvC or SFvXM or Alpha 2/3 which were all amazing. Even EX was fun.

Along come 3 and it was like $1 per play and it wasn't even fun. Nice animation but that's about it.

Didn't bother trying 2I or 3S until it came out on DC or later, can't remember.

Same thing happened to me for V. But I heard it was redeemed a bit and came back for 5 and enjoyed my time.

[Anonymous No.9550289]

>>9549816
Fixed a lot of the collision bugs along with general touch-ups

[Anonymous No.9551462]

>>9544675
Mods for retro games are permitted in /vr/ via the sticky

[Anonymous No.9551797]

>>9544515
Nice, came here to post this

[Anonymous No.9552187]

>>9544427
SMB2 on NES

[Anonymous No.9552219]

Overblood 2's first release was broken and you can't play past the 2nd level. You could only actually play the game upon the re-issue by a different Publisher 2 years later.

[Anonymous No.9552665]

>>9547638
>Sf2 TURBO was best. Didn't need 4 new characters or super meter.
Are you that one anon's uncle? I recall some anon on /v/ or /vr/ saying his uncle adamantly refused to touch Super Street Fighter II and any game past that, claiming that SF2 Turbo was the best and everyhing after that was fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.9552713]

Turok 1 and 2 remasters.

[Anonymous No.9553042]

>>9544956
I thought for something like Odin Sphere its a matter of rescanning?

>>9548593
Better performance and backporting some of the gameplay system improvements from games made after Odin Sphere.