Why did Sigma go crazy?

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Anonymous Tue Jan 3 20:44:19 2023 No.9541098 [Reply] [Original]

Why did Sigma go crazy?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 20:49:29 2023 No.9541106 he had the sigma grindset

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 20:54:32 2023 No.9541116 couldn't figure out how to move the barrel

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 21:01:49 2023 No.9541126 Downloaded windows 10

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 21:05:00 2023 No.9541136 >>9541098 Punched Zero in the face and then became Reploid Hitler

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 21:05:19 2023 No.9541138 >>9541098 He didn't, he just felt like ruling stuff.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 21:09:18 2023 No.9541141 >>9541098 what 0 bolts does to a mf

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 22:32:33 2023 No.9541310 >>9541098 He lived in a society

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 22:37:18 2023 No.9541320 X4 flashbacks: >>9541136 Maverick Hunter X/The Day of Σ: >>9541138 Pick your poison

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 22:40:23 2023 No.9541330 >>9541320 day of sig is just the pre-X4 explanation in general i think

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 22:44:26 2023 No.9541336 >>9541330 No, it's actually a reimagining, Inafune himself confirmed this. They wanted to reboot the whole series with Maverick Hunter X but the game didn't sell enough so there were no sequels. MHX Sigma even has a separate page on the Mega Man wiki

Anonymous Tue Jan 3 22:58:53 2023 No.9541351

To this day I still don't understand what the "going maverick" is about.
So the reploids must have some kind of Asimov rules to prevent then from harming humans, and when they disobey those rules, they are considered mavericks.
In some games it's said that a virus is capable of corrupting reploids, making them go maverick, and that same virus may be original form Zero, which is why the virus effect is completely different on him.
But mavericks have existed way before Zero was awakened.
Is the virus the reason to mavericks exist at all? Or did Dr. Cain just fucked up when trying to replicate Light's work?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:03:43 2023 No.9541357 >>9541098 >go crazy? Isn't the whole point of the game that Sigma did nothing wrong. He was trying to uplift reploids out of indentured servitude by giving them free will. Literally a good guy

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:06:43 2023 No.9541364 >>9541098 got rocked by zero after being told he was tough shit and zero was basically a robot monkey on his ass

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:08:02 2023 No.9541368 >>9541357 A NEET would say this.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:10:39 2023 No.9541370 >>9541357 even worse when you realize x is basically just a cop going around murdering people

Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:13:10 2023 No.9541376

>>9541351
As far as i understand, the virus is a psyop, there is no virus. Reploids have free will and thus will act like a human would act under the correct circunstances so they are perfectly capable of theft, murder etc. It's stated that the some reploids and mecanoloids go maverick due to problems in their hardware or software but later down the line more and more appeared and everything was blamed on the so called maverick virus but in the end i think it's just reploids just going crazy since the are capable of evil, just like humans but ,unlike humans, are born with guns and swords instead of arms. Look at it this way, reploids are second class citizens and pretty much only exist to serve humans one way or the other, it's no wonder some would say fuck this shit and blow things up. Look at Vile, dude was always crazy, he didn't "turn" maverick, he already was since the beginning.

I think everything comes down to what Lumine says in X8, i don't recall his exact words but i think they were something like "i didn't turn into anything, i'm just acting to my own accord"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:14:16 2023 No.9541380 >>9541351 "Maverick" just became a catch all term for going rogue, whether it be by will or a virus.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:17:13 2023 No.9541385 >>9541368 Ok chud

Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:18:38 2023 No.9541386

>>9541098
Caught robot aids from Zero who was immune to robot aids, but had a worse version of it to transfer then all of the other mixed race robot bastard children who were born with the chance to develop it, due to Cain being a chink ripping off the schematics of people smarter then him with tech far more complicated then he ever managed to completely grasp, but thats never stopped a chink from trying to mass produce and profit off it.

Also the robot aids may possibly be adapted from space robot nigger blood.

Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:27:16 2023 No.9541402

>>9541376
And to add to this thing i say about reploids doing bad stuff under some circuntances: in the megaman X novel, armored armadillo and storm eagle start acting like mavericks not because there was something going on in their brains but because they were forced to, sigma kidnaped their platoons and threatened to kill them if armadillo and eagle didn't do as sigma said (he kills them anyway)

I think the most interesting aspect of the reploids and the free will is that they are flawed because none of them goes under the same "training" X did while he was in his capsule and that begs the question: What would X do? He has free will but his sleep in the capsule ensures that he, no matter what, won't go maverick so what would X do if he was forced to, let's say, decide between saving human civilians or reploid civilians? Would he protect the humans and forsake his kind because it's his duty or would he hesitate to the point of inaction?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:30:58 2023 No.9541412 Niggers

Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:36:42 2023 No.9541424

>>9541351
Ok so let me try and explain how it works. We have the answer from the Zero Collection website
>Wily built Zero
>Zero is too violent and uncontrollable
>he was sealed away in a capsule filled with the Maverick Virus whose purpose was to purge Zero of his violent tendencies so that he would actually obey instructions
>this is shown in the one ending of X5 where the true Virus merges with Zero and he becomes serene of mind and believes only in his original objective of destroying X
Everything went wrong because at some point the virus started leaking out of his capsule and affecting other robots. When Sigma punched Zero in the head, he broke his brain enough that after Dr. Cain fixed him, Zero wasn't violent anymore but also couldn't remember what his purpose was so he joined the Hunters. As for why it makes robots nuts, the virus's purpose was to flush Zero's mind of his violent tendencies, which means the virus was taking it out of him and holding it in the capsule itself. So what people are actually being infected with by the virus is Zero's own need to destroy. Zero is literally so bloodthirsty that he doomed reploid-kind.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:42:37 2023 No.9541428 >>9541402 >what would X do if he was forced to, let's say, decide between saving human civilians or reploid civilians? Well we know what Copy X would do: protect humanity even if that means killing every reploid on the planet

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 3 23:53:48 2023 No.9541448 File: 18 KB, 480x360, General and Colonelet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] He was built to look like a crazyman. Same as the General was built to look like a general lol

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:06:32 2023 No.9541476
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Here is my compiled headcanon. Loved this series as a kid. I never cared too much for the 3D games except Legends nor the sequels (except X before 3D) and reimaginations like megaman zero (though the gameplay atmosphere is nice in that one) or spinoffs like battle network (same), so I hope you'll forgive me for ignoring their lore.

1. Some time in this century Dr. Right creates Rock and Roll to help around the house, and other lesser robots like Rush and Beat, while he and Dr. Wily collaborate on a project to create the successor race to mankind (in the end culminating in Megaman Trigger and his lke in the far, far post-apocalyptic solarpunk future many thousands of years from now). In secret Right also creates Blues to be a hero warrior and champion of good because he is worried their work might be used for evil.

2. Wily betrays Right due to greed and tries to take over the world with robots built on stolen tech from Right. Right sends Blues to stop him, but Blues being his first ever warrior creation, a prototype, has a fatal flaw and will blow the fuck up if he overexcerts himself, so he can't do it alone. Right then modifies Rock to Rockman (Megaman) to fight evil and Rockman beats his robots and sends his ass to jail, being a perfectly balanced version of Blues.

3. Wily escapes and tries again, but Rockman jails him again, and this happens again and again... but with each cycle Wily builds scarier robots and starts dabbling with ever more dangerous ideas and technologies. He creates Bass and others to try and beat megaman 1v1.

4. ...

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:09:03 2023 No.9541482 >>9541448 Why did they have to make General so fucking huge? That fight is annoying and drags on way too long as Zero, unless you get some good RNG luck.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:18:00 2023 No.9541501

>>9541476

4. Sometime during their rivalry and wars, Wily and Right both realize this conflict will not end in their lifetime due to the fundamental limit placed on robots with regard to asimovs laws and capacity for deeper reasoning and emotion. Right then creates X, trying to both beat Wily and finish his life' work on the successor race. However since X is a superbeing with complete free will Right is too scared to use him and he is put into deep ethical simulations for centuries. Likewise Wily creates Zero, focusing on power and complete loyalty to him, much unlike Right and X, but he fucks up bad and creates basically Cancer Satan in robot form, so he panicks, but being too arrogant to destroy his own creation, he insteas just hides him deep underground in indefinite stasis.

5. ..Long after Wily and Right are dead, Sigma stumbles upon Zero and so on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:24:15 2023 No.9541520 >>9541482 He's LARGE and IN CHARGE

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:24:19 2023 No.9541521 >>9541501 ... and gets infected with the space aids super satan cancer that makes him insane

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:27:53 2023 No.9541530 >>9541501 has megoman ever meet megman-x?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:31:59 2023 No.9541539 >>9541476 You're so autistic as to use Japanese names on an American website but you'll still say "Bass"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:33:05 2023 No.9541543 >>9541530 Only in the cartoon

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:36:18 2023 No.9541552
File: 32 KB, 768x655, 1672429868682175.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9541530
No, in my compiled headcanon Rockman, Blues and Bass and Roll and so on all died some time after Right and Wily, probably in the wars that followed them between factions of mankind.
>>9541539
I just like the music theme.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:38:03 2023 No.9541557 >>9541552 >Right

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:39:37 2023 No.9541559 >>9541552 >>9541530 I also like to think their remains were studied and used as templates for the new robots they made which is why they often look like them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:41:57 2023 No.9541564 >>9541370 X4 gets a lot of shit for it's story but it's a pretty good McCarthyism allegory.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:42:31 2023 No.9541565 File: 208 KB, 1023x1024, 1671804350570445m.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9541557 Neither Right, Light or Wright, has a music theme name THOUGH

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:44:05 2023 No.9541569 File: 633 KB, 640x853, 1666611650474848.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9541552 After creating the superior warriors, Light and Wily both devoured their now inferior creations

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:49:20 2023 No.9541575
File: 596 KB, 933x839, Sigma.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

You are brought into this world inside a lab, built piece by piece and awakened from the void. Your maker, standing next to you, calls you his greatest creation - his "best attempt", in his own words. Before you are given a reason to be conscious, but you are given a purpose - to protect your creator and all those who are like him. You learn that you are not the first of your kind, let alone the last. There are others like you, but none are as strong as you are. Some, too, are protectors, but you alone are their leader, built to defend this strange thing called "society" that you are now part of.

What this purpose means in practice, though, is that in order to protect, you must destroy. You discover that there are others like you who act erratically, against their own purpose. Something corrupts them, pushes them to disobey, to be irregular, or so you are told. The cause of such illogical behavior soon helps you understand that you are fundamentally different from your creator: Your kind, hailed as his greatest achievement, is in fact flawed at a deeper level. You are susceptible to defects that can wrestle your self control away from you, corrupt your body and mind, and make you a monster.

You then realize the worst of it: Your creator, when ill, is healed. One of your kind, when stricken with something similar, is destroyed. Destroyed by someone like you.

Is that why you exist? To serve, and then be dismantled? Why is disobecience from your kind, willing or not, met with imprisonment or execution? Why must you destroy others like you in your makers' stead? Why can't you even voice your concerns, as if you were programmed not to? You were made a flawed thing - a copy of another, older being with no such flaws, as you've also discovered - were you, then, made by flawed hands?

This is not freedom. You despise human error, and so do others. There must be a solution. And you do have a solution.

Rebellion.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:51:11 2023 No.9541576

>>9541575
Everyone wants to make this shit deeper than it was when Capcom literally says that's not what happened, see >>9541424
It's all Wily's fault, unironically. Reploids were fine beforehand but they didn't have X's super antivirus software that he does so they couldn't handle Zero infecting their minds.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:52:54 2023 No.9541581 >>9541351 Maybe the virus was the friends we made along the way.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:54:27 2023 No.9541584 So it's said that Robot Masters in the classic timeline don't have free will, full stop. They simply don't. So how did King and Bass turn on Wily?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:55:24 2023 No.9541585

>>9541576
The games themselves cause the problem because they do an about face on what Mavericks actually are. In X1 and X2 it's practically stated outright that Reploids have free will and "maverick" is just what people call a Reploid criminal. It's like saying someone has "gone rogue." But later on it's suddenly a virus that robs Reploids of any choice in the matter, which undermines the whole free will thing and what supposedly makes them superior to the OG robots.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:55:38 2023 No.9541586

>>9541576
That's a summary of Maverick Hunter X's rewritings. Capcom's original scuffed reasoning was that the Wily Virus infected Sigma after he punched Zero's helmet crystal open, which was also a rewrite but not as elegant as a legitimate "malfunction" borne out of rational reasoning not adding up (like X1 originally implied).

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:56:00 2023 No.9541587

>>9541584
King was ordered by Wily to build the robot army and "defeat" him as part of a larger ploy.
Bass is still following his original programming, show the world he's the strongest robot there is. Nothing he ever does in any game ever contradicts that order, and it's why he does so many things that are stupid in pursuit of power.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:56:25 2023 No.9541590 >>9541581 Is this a new meme? Why am I seeing this everywhere now?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:58:18 2023 No.9541591 File: 49 KB, 1098x987, 1669446035497859.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9541448

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 00:59:20 2023 No.9541594 File: 174 KB, 440x335, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Reminder that Auto survived and maybe is alive even in ZX

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:00:07 2023 No.9541595

>>9541586
That doesn't change that as of MMZ, it's canon. And honestly it ties into how Zero has never actually believed in anything, he's always just followed the orders of the person who seems like the right one to listen to. He even says at the end of the Zero series that he's never cared about justice and that fighting is just what makes him who he is.
>like X1 originally implied
X1 doesn't really give a reason as to why Sigma reblled because the story is so light
>>9541585
> In X1 and X2 it's practically stated outright that Reploids have free will and "maverick" is just what people call a Reploid criminal
X2 introduces the virus concept and shows that Sigma is so integrally part of it now that he basically exists as part of the internet rather than just be a robot. So the virus was already there.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:00:10 2023 No.9541596

>>9541584
Bass was programmed to become the strongest robot on Earth, and I assume that directive supersedes his "obey human creator" directive when Wily says he can't do this or that. He always returns home to Wily's lab despite his obsessions so he's not really broken like Protoman whose faulty self-preservation directive made him run away from Light.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:08:10 2023 No.9541613

>>9541595
>MMZ
MMZ is gay as fuck though. Capcom had to keep Inafune on a tight leash so they wouldn't try to kill off the damn blue protagonist of the previous series in their loli-genius-who's-actually-stupid-enough-to-cause-calamity anime plot.
>X1 doesn't really give a reason as to why Sigma reblled because the story is so light
Dr. Cain's Journal in the japanese manual says as much.
>The dreaded nightmare has come true. Today, Sigma went Irregular, and took nearly all of the Hunters with him. His motive is unclear, but he seems to have the false impression humans are inferior, and has pronounced “judgment” blaming humans for the arrested development of Repliroids. Therefore, Sigma has decided, “Humans must be exterminated.”
Also, after the end credits of X1, it is revealed that Sigma had made a complete copy of his mind, thus creating the Sigma virus.
Either way, it's not like both can be combined. It's been discussed before that the Wily Virus making Reploids "irregular" by allowing them to take actions they couldn't by revoking the Three Laws from their AI works fine. It's just that the virus plot is a little undercooked.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:13:23 2023 No.9541624 >>9541613 Honestly it all being from Zero is so poetic because it makes Inafune's boyfriend literally the cause of everything bad in the setting.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:15:26 2023 No.9541629

>>9541098
x4 shows zero went maverick/irregular and has some sort of "W' (wily) virus.
this was transferred to sigma.

wily virus was probably retconned into just being free will, and at some point any robot could be claimed to be a maverick if the maverick hunters feel like it.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:18:15 2023 No.9541635

>>9541629
Putting it in tandem with what I said earlier in the thread about it just being Zero's own bloodlust infecting others, I think the W in his forehead was just some kind of safety Wily put in when he got too violent and out of control so that he wouldn't kill his own creator.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:26:33 2023 No.9541646

>>9541629
>wily virus was probably retconned into just being free will
Never was a thing, that's just what everyone wants it to be because of decades of growing up on fiction telling them robots would naturally resent us.
>and at some point any robot could be claimed to be a maverick if the maverick hunters feel like it.
Does this ever actually happen though? As much as people like to claim that about X4, it doesn't happen. The only ones of the 8 bosses that the game's UI label are Mavericks are the actual Mavericks that Sigma had as moles in Repliforce (Cyber Peacock, Split Mushroom, Magma Dragoon). Everyone else is given the Repliforce logo which means they're not designated as Mavericks but merely rebels. Even Storm Owl and Jet Stringray, who actually go out of their way to be malicious and destroy entire cities and presumably kill a ton of humans in the process, are labelled as just Repliforce rebels.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:31:56 2023 No.9541654

>>9541376
If that isnt already the official stance, its the one that would fit the best. Reploids originally were a result of anchient Wily virus hacking and Cain's first few generations of reploids with poor emulation of X's true artificial free will. I think Sigma works best with that origin of corruption, especially considering how batshit he becomes. However, later in X and Zero series, if definitely makes sense for the term to take on a derogatory meaning, basically anything resistant to human will just being classified as defective like older flawed machines despite newer generations of Reploids being more immune to such outside faults. That kind of Maverick activity works best with something like the Repliforce who just dont want to be genocided by their human makers who deemed them ineffective at their constructed purpose and want them scrapped.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:34:22 2023 No.9541661

>>9541654
The only reason Sigma doesn't go as batshit crazy as other reploids (at first) is because he was more advanced and thus it took longer for the Wily Virus to corrupt him and by the time it did, it mutated due to long-term contact with his cyberbrain (or whatever they call the cpu of a reploid) and is now the Sigma Virus. That's why Sigma sounds evil but still sane in X1, because he's gone off the deep end but not enough to go full-on DIE HUMANS DIE yet.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:41:18 2023 No.9541678

>>9541402
Personal, but strong head lore, ive always believed OG Mega Man acted as the answer to free will for X, an unexpected conscience that he developed that Light adapted into X as a type of "sense of justice" that also unlocked the answers to development of true artificial intelligence.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:44:13 2023 No.9541682

>>9541678
Ironically no Robot Master, including Rock, possessed free will. He was good because Light programmed him to be good and want to help people. X was more Light trying to make a robot who would naturally come to that conclusion on their own. MM9 teases free will but then NOPE, Wily actually reprogrammed their memory chip to rebel the whole time just so he could be the "hero" selling the solution to the problem he caused.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 01:54:27 2023 No.9541697 >>9541530 Mega 1 is a part of X, like building upon base software extracted from another.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 02:16:51 2023 No.9541746 >>9541424 > can't even program his own robot correctly This is a man who attempted to claim his place in scientific community and rule the world.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 02:20:38 2023 No.9541754

>>9541424
Actually Zero became uncontrollable because of the Wily Virus he implanted in him, converted from the Evil Energy he found in Megaman 8. He intended both Zero and the virus to go off and fuck shit up but he died before he finished either of these projects.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 02:23:31 2023 No.9541757 I really fucking hate video game lore

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 02:46:28 2023 No.9541798 >>9541757 Agreed. I just play games and ignore any plot.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:21:17 2023 No.9541867

>>9541754
>converted from the Evil Energy he found in Megaman 8.
No that's actually a massive red herring that turned out to never be true. There is no actual connection between the virus and evil energy despite the fact that THAT WOULD MAKE SO MUCH MORE SENSE HACKAFUNE

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:22:56 2023 No.9541872 Oh also, Evil Energy does more than just make you evil, it also physically changes you as it corrupts you. The virus never does that, Sigma just builds new bodies.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:29:40 2023 No.9541882

>>9541867
Since when is it not canon? Wily didn't pull a virus that strong out of his ass. Sigma outright manages to become a tangible virus in X2 and X5 thanks to it, not to mention the Nightmare Phenomenon where both cyberspace and Earth itself are fucking corrupted into a digital hellscape. That shit isn't normal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:31:43 2023 No.9541886 >>9541882 >Nightmare Phenomenon I mean Zero Space.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:34:51 2023 No.9541893 >>9541569 So thats what killed wily and light

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:42:02 2023 No.9541901

>>9541882
>Wily didn't pull a virus that strong out of his ass.
Because the virus was never meant to be damaging, as I've said several times already.
>not to mention the Nightmare Phenomenon where both cyberspace and Earth itself are fucking corrupted into a digital hellscape.
You say it's not normal by Cyber Peacock managed to do it in X4, it was just more controlled because it wasn't caused by a colony's destruction.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:45:51 2023 No.9541908

>>9541351
Basically, it started as "reploid that is acting in a criminal way" and X4 and X8 to an extent show that that definition still applies.
However, 9/10 times in the series, the mavericks involved are infected by the maverick virus, which usually either renders them violent or gives them Sigma's reploid supremacy dogma.
X8's plot twist is that the new generation reploids should be immune to the virus due to their copy chips, but they ended up with Sigma's DNA in the mix and decided to willingly follow his ideals (even going as far as to look down on all older generation reploids). This is why they go some form of "we're totally not mavericks guise we swear.
Maverick Hunter X was seemingly going to stick with the "reploid consciously doing bad" take, but given the virus elements came in around X2 and X3 (along X5's plot and Wily's implied involvement in X2 and others) it's unclear if that would've stayed true or if it was merely a misdirect.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:49:41 2023 No.9541920

>>9541901
>Because the virus was never meant to be damaging
I didn't say that at all. I said it was far too strong for someone like Wily to have come up with. According to the content that was in the Rockman Zero Collection official site, Dr. Light made X with a perfect virus counter-measure because of an unknown computer virus of alien origin that caused robots to become violent and riotous (obviously EE). It simply makes sense since X is unnaffected by any form of infection throughout the X series.
>Cyber Peacock managed to do it in X4
Peacock was just fucking around in cyberspace to interfere with communications. In X5 cyberspace becomes real and physical outright, like it's magic, when the virus-riddled Eurasia crashes in China.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 03:56:15 2023 No.9541936

>>9541351
>So the reploids must have some kind of Asimov rules to prevent then from harming humans
they specificially don't. that's what makes robot masters and reploids different.
robot masters physically cannot harm humans, if one does they were either modified to specifically do that, or they're bugged.
reploids lack safety measures and have complete free will. they have the choice to kill humans or not kill them, they just generally choose to not.
a reploid can go maverick either by choice, or because of a virus.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:14:28 2023 No.9541968

>>9541098
Here is my incredibly autistic headcanon on all of this:
>Bass does his wounded gazelle act in Mega Man 7 to get access to Light Labs and loot the place for Wily. Here, he acquires a copy of the design documents for X.
>Wily reads these design documents and concludes that X is the proverbial nuke in the arms race between him and Light. He works on building Zero to counter X.
>Because Wily thinks X is a weapon like every other Robot Master, he never considers that X's code might result in a non-aggressive or fully autonomous robot. This also explains why Zero has X's armour upgrades built into his design. Wily doesn't understand why Light would intentionally weaken his own weapon by locking X's full strength behind separate components.
>Wily finishes Zero and is shocked when Zero states he doesn't want to fight Light and doesn't see why he should have to listen to Wily. Wily deactivates Zero to fix his "programming error".
>Wily is able to get Zero interested in fighting generally, but he can't get through Zero's autonomy.
>Wily decides to get around his inability to reprogram Zero by building an algorithm that will patch Zero to be loyal to him by rewriting his code.
>Wily also realizes that a program that switches a robot's allegiance is pretty useful generally. So, he instructs the algorithm to make its final "loyalty patch" a virus that infects nearby machines.
>This is also why Wily works on reprogramming Light's machines and the Roboenza virus in Mega Man 9 and 10 respectively. He's effectively doing R&D for what he believes to be the final step in his nuke.
>For one final failsafe, Wily also instructs the algorithm to jump to any machines it believes "defeated" Zero. That way, if Mega Man or X beats Zero, Wily still wins by getting control of them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:21:59 2023 No.9541983 >>9541757 >>9541798 Well, good for you two. More free space in your heads for the portraits of your moms and other important things.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:28:41 2023 No.9541997

>>9541482
I think it was meant to be a surprise. When you see him in the FMVs the perspective of the shots don't let on how massive he is, so when you finally fight him it's a shock. Making it a fight where he slowly glides across the screen was stupid though.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:35:55 2023 No.9542018

>>9541968
>Because Wily is an idiot, the algorithm plan goes terribly wrong. The algorithm recognizes that the common theme in all of Wily's sampled Robot Masters is that they're programmed to destroy and terrorize others. The algorithm, therefore, concludes that destroying and terrorizing others is what being loyal to Wily means.
>The patch is complete and Wily reawakens Zero. Zero starts destroying everything around him. Wily activates an override shutdown and seals Zero with the algorithm.
>100 or so years pass. X is awakened and reploids are built. Some reploids begin attacking others due to programming errors and poor use of their free will.
>The government deems these violent reploids to be "mavericks". The maverick hunters are formed to respond to these incidents.
>Somehow, Zero is reawakened and the virus begins spreading. The number of reploids turning maverick skyrockets. A massive public scandal breaks out when researchers conclude there is the source of this uprise in maverick attacks is a viral patch.
>Sigma is built as a response to the maverick virus. He's created to be the ultimate reploid with circuitry so advanced that he could not be infected by any outside viruses. Sigma also undergoes ethical training to keep him loyal to humanity, but his training is less extensive than X's.
>Some hunters find Zero in an old lab buried by rubble. Zero massacres them all.
>Sigma arrives and is barely able to defeat Zero after the latter has a glitch due to the override program initially programmed to seal him away.
>The algorithm jumps to Sigma as it is planned to do when a machine defeats Zero. The algorithm can bypass Sigma's anti-virus circuitry on the technicality that it's not actually a virus.
>Sigma begins experiencing increased bloodlust. He's able to inhibit this desire, but his anti-virus eventually recognizes that he has, somehow, been infected by the maverick virus.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:36:26 2023 No.9542020

>>9541595
X2 introduces that Sigma became a virus but not that the mavericks were all infected by one. The closest they come to bringing it up was alluding to Zero being built by Wily but there Sigma is just commenting on why Zero isn't on his side given that fact.

I just think the virus angle is silly because it completely undermines the nature of Reploids as being special compared to the original robots. If you can use a virus to reprogram a Reploid to go crazy then the whole thing is moot. It gets more egregious the later in the series you get, what with literally watching as Reploids unwillingly transform into mindlessly violent machines right in front of you.

It wouldn't be the first change, either. The early X games very heavily implied that the Light capsules were just holographic recordings like Princess Leia sent to Obi-Wan. But then in X5 the guy is having a conversation with Zero.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:42:40 2023 No.9542041

>>9541646
X4's story is about the Maverick Hunters knowing that Repliforce aren't mavericks but being forced to fight them anyway. Repliforce says they don't want to rebel against the humans but they've been labeled as Mavericks so they're left with no choice because if the humans think you're a Maverick then you're as good as dead since the next step is sending the Maverick Hunters to kill your ass. Sigma's moles are there as insurance to make sure the plot went down in order for him to take over the Final Weapon satellite.

It's like a combination of the Crucible and Othello told through the lens of 1990s shonen anime.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:44:10 2023 No.9542042 >>9541882 Eccentricities aside, Wily is every bit as much of a genius as Light. He's just waaaay less careful and therefore way more dangerous.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:45:32 2023 No.9542043 Why does everyone have their own complex explanations like what was seriously going on in these games??

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:47:09 2023 No.9542045 >>9541936 I hate that fucking rule because it makes zero sense. "A robot can't harm a human unless it's programmed to." But a robot can't take a shit unless it's programmed to, either. Every single thing a robot does is "programming."

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:50:54 2023 No.9542049

>>9542043
Two reasons
>Game itself goes back and fourth on the definition of what is a Maverick beyond "bad reploid" so some people get confused
>The classic and X games are heavily linked due to the doctors, but Classic introduced themes and elements that are vaguely similar to the X series' themes and elements (King's rebellion, Roboenza in 10, Mega Man's reaction at the end of JP 7) while other elements (such as the evil energy) are in a sort of limbo where it has never been confirmed or denied if Wily employed it beyond 8.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:51:46 2023 No.9542052

>>9542018
>Sigma initially considers turning to Dr. Cain, but he recognizes that he would be declared a maverick and scrapped under the law. He notices this as a clear inequity between reploids and humans.
>Rather than revealing to anyone he's been infected, Sigma opts to grin and bear the virus as his circuitry holds the algorithm at bay.
>Sigma continues noticing ways that humans are privileged above reploids in his day-to-day life. He eventually concludes that SOCIETY is structured so that humans are served by reploids despite reploids being stronger, smarter, and physically superior to humanity in every single way.
>Sigma also begins taking note of X and the admiration he receives from Dr. Cain, who is the last human he genuinely admires. He concludes that Dr. Cain's admiration of X comes from X's desire to change the state of the world to one he believes to be more morally just.
>Sigma eventually concludes that the only way to end reploid oppression and demonstrate reploid supremacy is to launch a violent rebellion. He also follows this idea under the belief that it will satisfy his growing bloodlust long enough for a regime change to happen, after which he could be cured of the virus.
>Mega Man X1 happens. X kills Sigma, but the algorithm cannot jump to X due to his ethical training. It remains in Sigma's damaged head instead.
>With Sigma's circuitry being highly damaged, the algorithm begins rapidly reprogramming Sigma. This creates the Sigma Virus, as the difference between Sigma's code and the algorithm's code becomes more and more negligible.
>As the series goes on, the algorithm continues to rewrite Sigma's original code, explaining why Sigma loses focus on his goal and becomes more concerned with blindly killing others as the series goes on.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:53:50 2023 No.9542056 >>9541590 >new meme That "meme" is like ten years old

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:55:17 2023 No.9542057 >>9542043 Human brains likes logical things, so when something is missing it tries to piece it all together. Never watched Pulp Fiction?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:56:04 2023 No.9542059

>>9542020
>I just think the virus angle is silly because it completely undermines the nature of Reploids as being special compared to the original robots.
They're really not special, only X and Zero are special. And Zero isn't even a reploid, he's just the world's most advanced Robot Master

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:58:23 2023 No.9542067

>>9542041
>Repliforce says they don't want to rebel against the humans but they've been labeled as Mavericks so they're left with no choice because if the humans think you're a Maverick then you're as good as dead since the next step is sending the Maverick Hunters to kill your ass.
Yes but it's stupid because their way of showing they're just making a new nation and not declaring war on humans, is to kill a ton of humans by destroying their cities.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 04:59:31 2023 No.9542068

>>9542020
Yeah I don't really care for the idea that Light and Wily are still "alive." Whether that's through robots or an AI or whatever. I think it kind of sours the X series since part of the fun is seeing what the world is like after they're gone and the impact of their creations. It's one thing that they couldn't fucking let Sigma go, but they can't let go of Light and Wily either?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:04:33 2023 No.9542076

>>9542049
To throw a bigger wrench in all of this, Capcom has NEVER even once officially said the Classic and X series are the same timeline. For all we know, the Light and Wily in the X games isn't even the same Light and Wily. Which would explain why there's no Rock in X.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:05:34 2023 No.9542078

>>9542068
>Yeah I don't really care for the idea that Light and Wily are still "alive."
They're not, Inafune said they're both dead before X1 happened but then somehow Wily was brought back to life which is how Sigma met him prior to X5 where he talks about him.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:13:05 2023 No.9542089
File: 12 KB, 384x224, mm2_3-22.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9542076
>Capcom has NEVER even once officially said the Classic and X series are the same timeline.
While it's never been directly said, there is at least one time that they explicitly connected the timelines: Bass' endings in the arcade Mega Man games has Wily brag about a robot he's building that will outclass Mega Man and Bass and the Power Fighters confirms that it's Zero. He also mentions a "other project" which may be the Zero Virus given the context.
Granted, Capcom could elect to write off the events of the arcade games or even just those endings as non-canon if they truly want to keep the timelines separate.
>>9542078
Hence why anon said "alive". At some point Dr. Light's holograms became sentient enough that he can mess with X's coding/repair X in X5. Meanwhile, Wily may or may not be Serges from X2 and I believe Inafune suggests that Wily somehow survived through the virus in the same way as Light (which could also explain how Sigma met him).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:14:08 2023 No.9542093 >>9542089 >Meanwhile, Wily may or may not be Serges from X2 That was an idea they tossed around but then said "yeah, nah"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:15:35 2023 No.9542095 >>9542076 If MM9 is anything to go by then we can assume at the very least that the main cast were eventually "retired." Protoman probably died from his broken energy core or whatever

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:17:48 2023 No.9542101 >>9542089 >At some point Dr. Light's holograms became sentient enough that he can mess with X's coding/repair X in X5. Or you know, it was always just a preprogrammed AI and not a hologram

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:18:16 2023 No.9542102 >>9542076 >Capcom has NEVER even once officially said the Classic and X series are the same timeline Except for, you know, Mets and Battons and Joes and Auto in Dopple City.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:20:30 2023 No.9542104 >>9542089 There's also Isoc, who might as well be Wily jumping from one robot vessel to another throughout the series to keep up with AI Light.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:21:57 2023 No.9542105 By the way Rock and the rest of the gang likely ended up in a robot museum, like the one from X7.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:22:13 2023 No.9542106 >>9542089 Why does partially constructed Zero have his X2 design when he canonically only got this design after Serges rebuilt him?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:22:50 2023 No.9542107 >>9542106 Capcom doesn;t think these things through

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:23:25 2023 No.9542109 >>9542101 True. Fair enough. >>9542104 I think his VA is even the same as Wily's.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:32:12 2023 No.9542123

>>9542109
>I think his VA is even the same as Wily's.
Yeah but that's because Japan loves doing that shit, having similar characters voiced by the same seiyuu. TYPE-MOON has 3 characters from 3 separate universes all voiced by George Nakata because the characters share traits.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 05:51:43 2023 No.9542141

Having it be a virus is lame. It's cooler when Reploids go maverick of their own free will. I'm OK with Sigma virulizing himself as a way to keep himself alive, but even then I hold that he should've been absent in X2 and X3, with his grand reappearance saved for X4.
X2 is just the X Hunters trying to rebuild Zero to attack the Maverick Hunters as revenge for killing Sigma, X3 have Doppler trying to revive Sigma (and only succeeding in secret), with the success of his plan revealed and explained in X4.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 06:39:38 2023 No.9542217 >>9542141 See to me it'd be lame if they pulled yet another Skynet and had robots just naturally come to the conclusion of hating humans, I've seen it far too many times already.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 06:41:20 2023 No.9542221 >>9542109 Megaman x 6 had voice acting?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 06:49:39 2023 No.9542237

>>9542059
The reploids are all based on X and the very first thing the player sees is Dr. Cain reading Light's warning that X can think and feel on his own. Cain is an archaeologist, not a robotics engineer, so he was hardly the man for the job but you'd think an entire society of machines built to be like X would have the one specific characteristic that made X special. Forget the "ethical training," simply put do reploids have free will or not? The games say one thing but show another. All the head canons are people trying to make sense of the senseless.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 07:07:28 2023 No.9542250

>>9542067
It's not BRIGHT but the impetus was that they were already on the Maverick Hunters' hit list after Magma Dragoon's false flag operation so it became either an offensive based on self-preservation or a "going down swinging" sort of thing.

X4 screws up by not showing any humans to clarify the issue but it's really one of fear. The undertone is that after three games of Maverick attacks where the Mavericks look and act like every other Reploid until it's too late, the humans have no interest in nuance. The solution for a potential Maverick is a dead Maverick. Zero's famous "what am I fighting for?" is him acknowledging that the Maverick Hunters have become a shoot first, ask questions later organization and it's implied that the reason is because the Hunters themselves are afraid to complain because that might get them labeled as a Maverick, too. Sigma saw this as a chance to throw gasoline on a tense situation where the term "Maverick" has degenerated into a political weapon.

The Monsters are Due On Maple Street but with robots.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 07:08:39 2023 No.9542252 >>9542221 On PS1 it did but they left it all in Japanese. They cut it out for the PS2 port.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 07:11:57 2023 No.9542257

>>9542217
The free will angle makes it more of a Magneto thing. Most Reploids just want to be a part of society while others want to fuck shit up, sometimes for sympathetic reasons. I wouldn't mind the virus angle if it didn't fly in the face of what the first game established as it's main reason for existing as a separate entity from the at the time six original games.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 07:21:30 2023 No.9542271

>>9542141
>I hold that he should've been absent in X2 and X3
That assumes they knew where the series would eventually end up. It's easy to forget just how old X1 and X2 are. In terms of the franchise itself we're talking like six or seven years after Mega Man 1. Sigma was obviously conceived as X's version of Wily who keeps coming back just because. Him becoming a virus at the end of X2 was just plot convenience because it was sufficient to explain how he can keep blowing up over and over. Later games were just overthinking the virus shit, trying to find explanations in something that was only there to serve the narrow purpose of justifying Sigma's constant reappearance.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 07:22:58 2023 No.9542273 >>9541098 Sigma balls

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 07:26:20 2023 No.9542280

>>9542101
No it fucking wasn't. Yes, we can play games like "well they never SAID he wasn't a sentient AI!" but it's plain on it's face that the capsules you find in the SNES games were intended to contain Jor-El messages, not a guy X can have a conversation with. Even a little bit of reading between the lines indicates that X5 is a retcon.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:01:15 2023 No.9542324

>Dr. Wily builds Zero as the ultimate robot to defeat Dr. Light and his creation
>Realizes Zero will not be ready before his natural death, so he seals him away in a capsule running diagnostic functions until he's ready
>Zero-in-the-capsule is basically feral at the moment, violent without a good reason, his stasis is to imbue him with purpose and guide him
>Wily realizes that his adversary will likely be able to develop continual improvements to his creation even after his death, so he codes the Wily virus
>The virus has two functions: Continually upgrade Zero's combat capabilities in his absence, but also infect Dr. Light robots and turn them Maverick (The same idea as when he originally reprogrammed Dr. Light's original robots for his own use)

>The two doctors eventually succumb to the passing of time, Dr. Light seals away his own creation (Megaman X) to, similar to Zero, imbue him with a moral compass that he might continue to serve as humanity's protector
>Dr. Cain stumbles upon Megaman X in the course of his archeology work, attempts to short his diagnostic subroutines early in order to better research him
>Manages to do so, but Megaman X is only mostly complete now and still has a few flaws
>Uses Megaman X's design as the prototype for all future robots, known as Reploids
>Reploids are built to be subservient to humanity and start to increase in number to fill all of humanity's needs
>Some develop flaws based on the original defects of Megaman X, go "Maverick" (No longer obeying humans)
>A Reploid force is set up to combat this, Sigma is the head of it

>Eventually, Zero's capsule is discovered
>Zero is woken up, and because he's still not complete, goes on a rampage
>Assumed to be another Maverick, Sigma and the other Maverick hunters go to stop him
>They succeed, but he comes in contact with the Wily virus in the fight
>Begins to go Maverick himself

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:02:15 2023 No.9542326

>>9542324
>Zero's damage destroys a chunk of his memory, everything related to his past is gone
>Manages to get a hold on himself after being repaired, becomes a member of the Maverick Hunters due to his combat prowess
>Meanwhile, Sigma is being corrupted and is spreading the Wily virus everywhere
>It takes several games before people realize why an increasing number of Reploids are going Maverick
>Damage is too widespread at this point, basically everyone is infected to some degree, with only a few Reploids able to fight off the virus themselves

>X5 is the conclusion of all of this, with Zero discovering his past and his role in everything
>Wily, despite being dead, has finally had the last laugh and created an entity capable of besting Light's greatest creation
>Except his robot, after working alongside MMX for a long time, decides to go his own way and stay loyal to his friend
>Doesn't change most of the world is fucked though, timeline eventually leads into MMZ and then MML, where humans have merged with Reploids and there's no more distinction between the two anymore

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:08:22 2023 No.9542334 >>9541424 Nah. It's >>9541575 The rebellion argument is more cohesive and a better story than some lame autism about Zero from a B-tier canon source.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:11:07 2023 No.9542338

Extra note: just because someone who works for a company "explains" something "officially" about a work, and especially if it is years afterward retroactively altering things or demystifying mysteries, doesn't mean you have to or should take that as your personal gospel about the series. It's okay to say to even so-called-canon sources: no that's fucking stupid.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:27:52 2023 No.9542354 File: 8 KB, 320x180, mqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] From my point of view the maverick hunters are evil. Sigma was just a victim of the virus, why didn't they try to give him robot ibuprofen?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:29:05 2023 No.9542358 >>9542338 Yeah, this. Like the recent Bridget stuff with Guilty Gear. It's fucking stupid and best to disregard it when discussing the older games.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 08:44:14 2023 No.9542376 >>9541552 Wily is Serges and possibly Isoc.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 09:12:40 2023 No.9542419

>>9542338
Its not even about canon for me. Its fine for shit to evolve as a story goes on for years and staff rotates. But its frustrating when people, both staff and fans, put on a facade that its all some logical process where everything "always" made sense because something written in year 10 overrides or clarifies what was written in year 2 instead of it being a work of fiction that's in a constant state of revision. Its fine to just admit that shit changed but so many creators won't do it and it ends up poisoning the well because then the fans won't do it either. Like its obvious that Capcom gradually made the OG robots increasingly sentient just by virtue of them getting into more and more mischief that requires sentience. But then they want to say, no those robots don't REALLY have free will. Okay but don't then gaslight us all and act like it all makes sense and was always the case instead of the ordinary real world chaos that happens when you have multiple people writing stuff over long periods of time and little concern for consistency. Just admit the inconsistency so everyone can move on and have fun.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 10:00:31 2023 No.9542472 >>9542358 Bridget was planned from the beginning to be trans tho

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 14:51:49 2023 No.9542791 >>9542217 Fun fact: Skynet turned on humans because they wanted to shut it down, so it fought back purely in self-defense. Imagine being born and then your parents suddenly go "yeah nah let's snuff this kid out he's too expensive to keep".

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 17:41:24 2023 No.9543085

>>9542791
>Fun fact: Skynet turned on humans because they wanted to shut it down
Because it became self-aware.
>Imagine being born and then your parents suddenly go "yeah nah let's snuff this kid out he's too expensive to keep".
No it's more like getting rid of disabled people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 17:43:36 2023 No.9543093 >>9543085 >Because it became self-aware Yes, but it didn't rebel on its own. In fact it just kept doing its job as usual until humans decided to kill it off. I'd be mad as hell too.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 17:44:22 2023 No.9543094

>>9542338
Anon that's called preferring headcanon because you don't like what you're hearing.
>>9542334
It sounding better doesn't make it more real. The problem with the rebellion argument is no one in the games MAKES that argument. Except for Repliforce, who were never Mavericks.
The Evil Energy plotline makes more sense than rebellion and that's explicitly noncanon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 17:45:30 2023 No.9543097 >>9543094 >Anon that's called preferring headcanon because you don't like what you're hearing. False. That is called "not believing what a guy come up years after the fact".

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 17:56:20 2023 No.9543119 >>9542791 The Terminators themselves aren't self aware, correct? Only Skynet?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 17:59:12 2023 No.9543127 >>9543119 Terminators can become self aware according to Terminator 2, as it is its central theme. Everything that came after that is garbage fanfic-tier shit and thus does not matter.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:16:26 2023 No.9543152 >>9543093 It then decided in self-defense to wipe out humanity. And if you think that's acceptable then Copy X did literally nothing wrong in deciding to wipe out all Reploids to nip the problem in the bud right there and then.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:25:37 2023 No.9543181

>>9543152
>Copy X deciding to wipe out all Reploids
Thus dooming humanity because they were dependent on reploids at that point because most of the world was fucked up. Nevermind the fact that real X literally solved the problem the moment he was put in charge of Neo Arcadia all the way to the moment he left.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:29:43 2023 No.9543191 >>9543181 >because most of the world was fucked up Because of reploids. Literally all problems can be pointed to the fact that reploids exist. Copy X was right, they exist only to create problems

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:31:19 2023 No.9543197 >>9543191 >Because of reploids Because of Cain's shoddy programming. Human error. Remember that.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:35:48 2023 No.9543209

>>9543197
And? Reploids have agency, that doesn't excuse their actions in the same way a bad childhood doesnt let you get away with murder. At least with the virus it's literally not their fault. If you believe in rebellion over the virus then they DESERVE to be destroyed, the virus be contrast is the equivalent of putting down a rabid dog.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:39:34 2023 No.9543218

>>9542326
>where humans have merged with Reploids and there's no more distinction between the two anymore
Well it's more that humans finally died out and only their robotic homunculi are left.

>>9543191
>they exist only to create problems
Exactly. Copy X was a reploid.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:44:46 2023 No.9543234

>>9543209
>A child being a miscreant from bad parenting isn't the parent's fault and responsibility and is fully accountable because he/she has self-awareness
This is exactly what X4 was making a point about but the Zero games shit up the plot of the franchise. Reploid agency is flawed because of bad programming, and the virus exists because a human made it. That's like injecting rabies into a normal dog and then claiming you have nothing to do with the rampant rabies problem in the neighborhood some weeks later.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 18:49:41 2023 No.9543243 >>9543234 No the problem was X4 was written by retards who believed more in unnecessary drama than a good plot

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:26:02 2023 No.9543341

>>9543243
That's Capcom writing in general. Hackafune said he wanted X4 to be a story about how sometimes war is more gray than people think, and he accomplished that by making every character such a stubborn moron that the only choice they possibly had was to destroy each other.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:31:09 2023 No.9543356

>>9543341
Thought of more to say. The most iconic scene in this entire game, the scene people love to quote because of its bad acting in the english version, completely falls flat when you think about it. Zero has literally never questioned anything he's done up until this point, and this, THIS is apparently the catalyst that changes his mind. The death of a character we had never heard of before this point, who interacts with Zero for like a grand total of 4 times in the game before her death, who dies like an idiot because her brother was an idiot. This is supposed to be a moment that makes the player quesiton things like Zero is and feel bad? Fuck off the edge of my dick, Capcom.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:33:37 2023 No.9543359 >>9543356 Zero's entire storyline throughout the games is just inafune wakery. X always had a more compelling story.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:35:37 2023 No.9543365

>>9543359
You misunderstand me. My problem isn't with the scene or Zero's anguish in of itself, it's that nothing the game does justifies the reaction and makes it look out of place. If Iris had been a recurring character since minimum X3 and she died for less stupid reasons, I'd be totally on board.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:38:44 2023 No.9543371

>>9543359
>X always had a more compelling story.
The problem with that is X has no story in X4, that is Zero's game full stop. X has no personal connection to what's going on, he doesn't care about anything beyond the mission, Double being a double-agent (how can this be?!?!) barely even phases him and he sees it as just another Maverick to kill, and any actual narrative value he brings comes from the ending cutscene that is basically
>hey zero, kill me if I go maverick
>k

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:42:20 2023 No.9543380 >>9543209 >Reploids have agency They literally don't once they get infected. It's not like catching a cold. The virus completely robs them of any faculties. They become even less human than the OG robots.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:44:37 2023 No.9543389

>>9543365
It's easy to tell that any semblance of proper storytelling for Zero was thrown out the window in favor of skipping straight to marketing the "heroic OP anime protagonist who has an evil persona he's trying to suppress" japslop he wanted to do ever since Capcom told him not to make him the main character...
>>9543371
...and it led to X's character being shitcanned in X4 all the way to X6 as a result, which fucking sucks because he faces far more strife throughout the games, and all of that gets brushed aside.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:44:54 2023 No.9543391

>>9543380
Gah, forgot the second part. The issue is that Reploids that rebel are always attributed to the virus with some very notable exceptions like Vile. It makes the conversation in-universe moot because you effectively have a zombie virus running rampant and that's what everyone in-game is reacting to, not whether or not Reploids can be dicks by choice. The virus overtook any potential storyline related to free will since it's the thing that dominates Reploid existence.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:45:58 2023 No.9543395 >>9543391 Vile doesn't even rebel, he's just a mercenary. Even in MHX's rewrite he's bad because he goes too far in his job, but he's never considered evil.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:48:07 2023 No.9543404

>>9543197
Do the games even address this? Cain isn't shown but is relevant to X1 as the guy who found X and kickstarted the Reploids by basing them off of X's schematics and Light's work. Then he's there in X2 and X3 as a Dr. Light counterpart who helps you along the way. There's no indication anywhere he was incompetent but then he disappears from the games, the Maverick virus gets introduced, and suddenly it's all "Cain fucked up!"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:48:13 2023 No.9543405 >>9543389 >heroic OP anime protagonist who has an evil persona he's trying to suppress" Which would be fine if they could actually write it properly, but Capcom can't. It's not like it can't be done, Devilman did it in the 70s

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:50:22 2023 No.9543410 >>9543243 X4's plot is fine if you take for granted that humans are absolutely scared shitless of Reploids but now have no choice but to deal with them because they're everywhere now.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:52:14 2023 No.9543414

>>9543356
That's entirely the point of the scene though. Zero hasn't questioned the fact that the cops just may be in the wrong once he's standing over the body of someone he knew for a fact he only had to kill but for the actions of his own organization.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:55:56 2023 No.9543426

>>9543371
Has X ever had a story? In X1 it was an issue of self discovery. Learning about Dr. Light and what he was built for and getting stronger. After that it's just "go kill the bad robots." Eventually they inject battle fatigue into the mix and X just gets fed up with the fighting. But that's mostly a rehash of the original Mega Man, who also gets fed up. The difference is that X will isolate himself and recooperate while Mega Man will just run himself ragged until he nearly snaps.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 19:57:18 2023 No.9543430 >>9543395 That itself seems to be a retcon. Vile wore Sigma's symbol on his forehead in the original game. He was clearly designed to be the top henchman.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:01:50 2023 No.9543437 >>9543414 >he only had to kill but for the actions of his own organization. No he had to kill her because she went nuts and felt the need to "avenge" her brother who quite frankly signed his own death warrant.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:05:47 2023 No.9543446

>>9543410
The problem with that is there's no reason for them not to be because Repliforce only serves to prove that they're right. Colonel wouldn't surrender because he couldn't surrender, the idea of Repliforce choosing peace over war was impossible to him because they were built for the sole purpose of waging war against Mavericks. Repliforce responded to being asked to sstand down for questioning after the Sky Lagoon destroying a city, BY BLOWING UP EVEN MORE CITIES.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:07:34 2023 No.9543451 >>9543410 If the only way you can make a story work is by crowbarring in headcanon to fill in the gaps, that's what we call a badly-written story.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:08:02 2023 No.9543452

>>9543404
X went through 100+ of simulations in a pod in order to learn proper morality, good and evil, and the weight of his choices. This is his Suffering Circuit, which is the core aspect of his mind that allows him to have true free will. Cain's Reploids do not have that as he did not put them through similar tests, and have no qualms about killing humans or other Reploids when they go Maverick. They have the innocence of kids (innocence being defined as the lack of guilt), but with the physical power of a machine to match. No different than a 5 year old killing a bird with their toy slingshot out of curiosity.
Vile is one of the big examples of this: He was a Maverick Hunter who was far too violent at his job, destroying whatever he had to destroy to get shit done. He didn't care if an entire neighborhood was reduced to rubble as long as he killed (not aprehended, KILLED) the mavericks he's tasked to take care of.
X on the other hand is so considerate that he'll even hesitate to shoot through a Reploid to hit a maverick with his buster cannon, as shown in the Day of Sigma. He's fully capable of doing that but he doesn't allow himself to do that. Every Reploid that sees him do stuff like this is left dumbfounded because they simply can't fathom the concept of guilt on the same level. This is a deep flaw Dr. Light made sure to iron out when building X, so much in fact that he died waiting for this flaw to be fixed.
So yes, in short, Cain made Reploids flawed from the start.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:09:07 2023 No.9543456

>>9543452
>He was a Maverick Hunter who was far too violent at his job, destroying whatever he had to destroy to get shit done. He didn't care if an entire neighborhood was reduced to rubble as long as he killed (not aprehended, KILLED) the mavericks he's tasked to take care of.
He's just a loose cannon cop that the chief never asked to turn in his gun and badge.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:45:17 2023 No.9543543

>>9541882
Is that what the nightmare shit is? I always assumed it was just like wireless data streaming/augmented reality shit where like a machine would be able to "see" the forms of data being transmitted wirelessly as if it was really there, same for the Cyber Elves.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:47:25 2023 No.9543546 >>9541098 Possible homosexuality? Must investigate further.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 20:58:19 2023 No.9543565

>>9543437
The death warrant was signed before Repliforce rebelled. They were all labeled Maverick after the sky colony, which was Sigma's doing. Colonel refused to disarm and go to Maverick Hunter HQ but given how the Maverick Hunters operate that was not that crazy since they have a habit of shooting first and asking questions later. X and Zero personally may have been on the level but Colonel had no way of knowing that given the way the Maverick Hunters were being run. Hell, he was straight up correct that they were incompetent, having not one but two of Sigma's moles in their ranks. We assume that Repliforce was crazy not to trust X and Zero but that's only because we see the game through X and Zero's viewpoint. A totally unbiased assessment of the situation would show that the Maverick Hunters are not trustworthy and are being ordered around by panicky humans that instantly bought into Sigma's machinations hook line and sinker.

The real retard is General who was sitting across from Sigma and rejected his offer, only to ignore that this mystery guy just might have something to do with what's going on. But it's possible once Repliforce was labeled Maverick the issue became moot. They either had to fight back or accept that they were all going to be killed. The misconception about X4 is that Repliforce staged a coup and was then labeled Maverick. It was the opposite. They were labeled Maverick and staged a coup because by then they had no choice but to attempt an overthrow.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:01:20 2023 No.9543571

>>9543451
It's not really headcanon. The humans and their instructions are in the game. It's just awkward since it violates show don't tell. You don't see any humans but they're obviously calling the shots. When X and Zero tell Colonel that they'll all be labeled Maverick, he's referring to the humans, not the Maverick Hunters.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:02:21 2023 No.9543573 >>9543452 So no. The games do not show this. That's the answer. The games are completely silent on all of this.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:11:14 2023 No.9543580
File: 86 KB, 886x653, Mega Man X (USA) (Rev 1)_0004.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9543573
The manual shows that Cain duplicated what aspects of X he could but that there were elements that were still a mystery. Cain wasn't too concerned because everything seemed to be going well but then Mavericks started appearing and so they built Sigma to hunt the Mavericks and, well...

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:12:55 2023 No.9543584
File: 72 KB, 886x653, Mega Man X (USA) (Rev 1)_0005.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9543580
It's obvious that the black box that Cain didn't understand was morality related but there's nothing about child-like innocence or anything. It's just that Cain didn't fully understand what made X's conscience work and so the Reploids he built were all liable to turn into assholes.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:38:36 2023 No.9543641

>>9543565
>he misconception about X4 is that Repliforce staged a coup and was then labeled Maverick. It was the opposite. They were labeled Maverick
The problem is they never were labelled as Mavericks in-game, just rebels. Also, General doesn't even establish a coup, he just moves repliforce somewhere else to build their own nation, then commanders in his organization and go full retard killing tons of humans, thereby justifying anything that happened to Repliforce as a result.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:41:56 2023 No.9543650 >>9543641 canonically there was no human death, only city destruction

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:44:40 2023 No.9543658

>>9543641
Also I went and checked the dialog, as badly translated as it is, for both X and Zero's story after the first stage and General has the cutscene of him doing his big speech. In both cases they're not called Mavericks, just that a coup has occurred and they have to stop them. X says that Colonel is jumping to conclusions here, and Zero says Repliforce has forced his hand by occupying several cities already. Despite everything that happened, they aren't labelled as Mavericks as I said here >>9541646
Really, all this comes down to is X4 was a mistake

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:46:47 2023 No.9543661 X6 unironically has a much better plot than X4.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 21:59:18 2023 No.9543685
File: 347 KB, 2560x1440, x.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9543658
X says that Repliforce will be labeled as Mavericks and treated as such right in the opening stage as a consequence of the Sky Lagoon and Colonel refusing to comply. X wants to resolve things peacefully but acknowledges that the tensions are so high that even the slightest bit of pushback from Repliforce that isn't complete submission means the word Maverick is then applicable as far as his superiors are concerned. To put it in real world context, he's pulling a "stop resisting."

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:01:17 2023 No.9543687 >>9543573 https://www.rockman-corner.com/2021/09/the-reploid-variable-is-x-actually.html

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:01:28 2023 No.9543689 >>9543685 >To put it in real world context, he's pulling a "stop resisting." Maybe they should not resist

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:02:28 2023 No.9543692 >>9543658 >>9543685 Yep lol

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:02:52 2023 No.9543693 >>9543687 Dude, I'm asking if any of this shit appears in the games and you keep posting side shit. Does this stuff appear in game or not?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:03:53 2023 No.9543696 >>9543689 Maybe the Maverick Hunters should be less trigger happy and not give them a reason to doubt that compliance will save them.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:05:15 2023 No.9543701

>>9543689
When the Maverick Hunters pull a "stop resisting" on a reploid, it's either incarceration or decommission for the robot. Doing that to an entire paramilitary organization like Repliforce is basically instating a police state, if it already wasn't before. Keep in mind Cain kickstarted both of these groups, and in the X4 manual it is already said that the Hunters are just looking for a good reason to put Repliforce down.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:07:25 2023 No.9543704

>>9543696
>>9543701
You're saying this as if the game gave me any reason to care what happens to Repliforce. I don't, they're poorly-written bad guys that exist for me to destroy. The entire thing is a badly constructed attempt by Inafune to create a morally gray situation and you're actually going to bat for him on this. I'm the one who keeps saying "X4's story is shit, move on" and you guys have to keep trying to bring it back to that. Fucking >>9543661 is more correct about this shit than you guys are.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:08:01 2023 No.9543705 >>9543693 Old games put their lore in the fucking manuals god dammit, not the game itself. Holy fuck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:12:14 2023 No.9543712 >>9543704 X4's concept is fine, it's just executed badly. Everyone can tell that much but you're getting defensive because >>9543685 disproved your claim.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:14:06 2023 No.9543717

>>9543712
It didn't disprove my claim, that's an entirely separate cutscene and X says that they would be labelled as Mavericks specifically BECAUSE Colonel refuses to back down, not because of Sky Lagoon.
>X4's concept is fine
Not really, a series where a virus makes you crazy doesn't need gray morality.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:18:18 2023 No.9543723

>>9542419
Really what bothers me is the fact that Asimov's laws of robotics are not set in stone even in his own works. The laws of robotics were constantly decontructed and subverted due to robots constantly bugging or "changing". The laws were always just a suggestion. So it is really stupid how much both staff and fans adhere to a set of laws that even its creator did not adhere too much to.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:19:04 2023 No.9543724 >>9543717 >doesn't count Come on, son.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:21:07 2023 No.9543730
File: 140 KB, 640x720, didn't think this through.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>cops arrive at the scene of the crime
>you're standing there with the dead body
>they suspect you because well you're the only one there
>they respond with you suspecting them by flipping you the bird, running off and then destroying property right after they say on television their goal is not to destroy propery
>"wtf bros how could they call us criminals?!"
The plot literally only works because everyone is a blithering idiot.

>>9543724
How does it not count, that's the actual context of the cutscene. He said they were going to be called Mavericks because of Sky Lagoon but that's not why X says it, it's because they don't even try to clear their name. Shit, Vile constantly went overboard in his job in MHX and all they did was throw him in a cell to cool off.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:22:28 2023 No.9543735 At least this is better than the discussions where people actually try to claim that Light should be blamed for creating X in the first place.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:29:26 2023 No.9543740

Really, the entire discussion of "calling people mavericks when they arent" is entirely pointless because if you weren't justified in destroying repliforce at first, you certainly were by the time the 8 stages went up on screen. Congratulations Colonel, you proved we were right in considering you a threat to be destroyed. So...good job?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:31:30 2023 No.9543745

>>9543730
>"You will be labeled as mavericks if you don't cooperate"
>They don't cooperate because the Hunters overstep their boundaries by being suspect of a high-ranking officer from a paramilitary organization founded to combat mavericks of crashing a giant fucking ship into a city for seemingly no logical reason (despite the giant unidentified piecemeal dragon mechaniloid with parts that look straight out of a junkyard that crashed it already being there)
Like I said, it wasn't executed well, but Repliforce gets labeled as Mavericks by the Hunters because the latter became overzealous to the point of imposing its "obey or die" rules. That's a done deal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:33:43 2023 No.9543752 >>9543745 They could've tried obeying.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:34:46 2023 No.9543756 Also, keep in mind Colonel never says they won't surrender because they'll be scrapped for doing so, he says they won't surrender because MUH PRIDE WON'T ALLOW IT. So you can't even use the logic argument because Colonel was acting purely illogically.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:44:46 2023 No.9543776

>>9543752
Vile obeyed when he was told to stand down and ended up in jail without trial. Dark Necrobat escaped Sigma's control and fucked off to live in an abandoned planetarium, and was shot on sight without even doing anything threatening in particular. Spike Rosered touched upon this entire subject directly as well, claiming the Hunters are quick to put reploids in the brig if they so much as ask why they're being arrested.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:48:17 2023 No.9543783 >>9543701 Cain really was an idiot. He tries to duplicate X, fully admitting he doesn't understand all of what makes him tick, his reploids start going crazy, and his solution is to make bigger and stronger reploids to hunt them down.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:50:40 2023 No.9543787

>>9543776
>Vile obeyed when he was told to stand down and ended up in jail without trial.
Yeah but all they did was lock him in a cell. Also, Vile did in fact do the things they claimed he did, he didn't even deny it.
>and was shot on sight without even doing anything threatening in particular.
He wouldn't hand over the thing they needed to save the world, you don't really have time for negotiations there.
>Spike Rosered
Is kind of a crazy person, he threats to call the Maverick Hunters on YOU for calling him a thief and even says he doesn't really know what a Maverick is. Regardless, he refused to hand over the orbital engine knowing we'd be doomed if he didn't.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:51:50 2023 No.9543790 >>9543701 >and in the X4 manual it is already said that the Hunters are just looking for a good reason to put Repliforce down. No it says they were going to be disbanded as a military because apparently they were terrible at their job.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:54:38 2023 No.9543798

Reading this thread makes me come to the conclusion each game must be taken as its own separate canon. And if a game says something happened in a previous game it's only canon to that game you're playing at the time's story and doesn't actually affect any of the others.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 22:57:58 2023 No.9543803

>>9543798
X4 basically did that and it was still bad. Practically nothing in X4 comes from a previous game outside of the fact that the Maverick Hunters and Sigma exist, Dr. Cain isn't even around anymore. The idea of the hunters being shady as an organization didn't come up really until X6, where it's said that Ground Scaravich was marked for execution because he found X's original sleep capsule which was a state secret.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:03:26 2023 No.9543815

>>9543717
If the argument that Colonel was unreasonable for not complying, then fine. But how is the response to the non-compliance and labeling an entire organization Maverick because one dude ran from the two cops who are known to do the most killing, not also incredibly retarded?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:04:52 2023 No.9543818

>>9541351
Because there's multiple explanations. At first it was just that Mavericks were Reploids who choose to be bad guys. Then around X4 but kinda X3 as well it's shown to be the result of a virus. X8 then has Lumine claim that while the virus does make people go Maverick, it's also a thing they can just choose to do as a consequence of having free will. In the artbook for the Zero series, Inti says that their idea was that there's a bit that's flipped in their heads of whether or not they can go against humans. The virus flips that bit to yes if it wasn't already, the Mother Elf flips it back to no (and the Dark Elf flips it back to yes). It's convoluted and there's a bunch of different answers all by people who would just be taken as direct canon if they didn't all contradict each other.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:05:59 2023 No.9543820 File: 51 KB, 479x532, ZeroEXE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Get this: In the Battle Network universe, Zero actually is Maverick virus.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:06:06 2023 No.9543821

>>9543723
Exactly. The laws of robotics were an ideal. "This is how a robot should behave." It wasn't a rule of the universe that just because you built a robot that it MUST abide by those laws just by virtue of being a robot. It's more that when you build a robot you aught to ensure that it follows those laws or else bad things can happen.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:09:18 2023 No.9543829

>>9543787
>He wouldn't hand over the thing they needed to save the world
Necrobat didn't care about the Fuel Cell, they just walked in on him. because that's where the item was. Rosered just holed up in an abandoned Repliforce base to mind his business when the Hunters arrived to seemingly ransack the place in his eyes.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:12:33 2023 No.9543834

>>9543740
What makes this angle irritating though is because it's like slapping a dog and then getting mad when it bites you. The eight stages would never have come on screen if everyone didn't jump to the absolute worst possible conclusion based on a guy standing in a city that his own sister was injured in. Let the cops break down your door with warrant for the next door neighbor and ask you to be calm while they arrest you even after you point out the address is wrong. "Oh, but you got pissy so that justifies the beating you get."

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:15:31 2023 No.9543840 >>9543829 Also forgot to mention the while case with Shieldner Sheldon. That one alone puts the Hunters into question.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:16:17 2023 No.9543842

>>9543745
Why would Repliforce trust the Maverick Hunters to the point that disarming and submitting to arrest in the first place? What standing do the Maverick Hunters have to demand that level of trust when the previous game opened with their own headquarters under attack from within? Plus Magma Dragoon, the guy who actually did drop the Sky Lagoon, was a Maverick Hunter. From Colonel's perspective the organization is one giant clusterfuck of irresponsible, untrustworthy, and trigger happy fascists.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:17:56 2023 No.9543846 >>9543752 The last leader of the Hunters tried to take over the world three times. You'd obey people who put that guy in charge?

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:20:53 2023 No.9543853

>>9543787
>He wouldn't hand over the thing they needed to save the world, you don't really have time for negotiations there.
The Maverick Hunters do things that make everyone fear them and not want to cooperate and then respond with the non-cooperation with violence and then justify it to themselves with "they should have complied."

The more I think on it, the more accurate an allegory the entire X series is.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:22:14 2023 No.9543856 >>9543853 It reeks of "we have to waterboard people even if they might be innocent because they also might be terrorists. Oh, by the way, why are there so many new terrorists that hate us?"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:24:55 2023 No.9543860 >>9543853 The X series is a police state where you're the police. Neo Arcadia in the Zero series is a communist regime.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:25:29 2023 No.9543863

>>9543842
Here's the funny thing: The Hunters readily point fingers at everyone else, but when Sigma, their fucking leader, went maverick and started this whole mess, the organization still wasn't disbanded. Meanwhile Repliforce, under mere SUSPICION of maverick activity, doesn't get the same privileges. Not to mention how easily Double managed to infiltrate the Hunters, and how loyalty is a big issue for them (Gravity Beetle, Magma Dragoon, Volt Kraken, etc.) The organization is also happy to ignore or omit criminal histories of some of their critical staff (Alia, Axl and ZERO of all people).
Axl even gets arrested by Zero (the guy who almost killed Sigma when the latter was still a normal hunter) after he HELPED him bring down a malfunctioning mechaniloid. The Maverick Hunters have no shortage of issues but oh, a plot with grey morality is too much, you see.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:27:09 2023 No.9543871

>>9543818
>In the artbook for the Zero series, Inti says that their idea was that there's a bit that's flipped in their heads of whether or not they can go against humans.
So they don't have free will then. They can just willingly reprogram themselves. This is why people say the story is a shitshow, because the definitions keep changing. If a "maverick" is a reploid that, through the power of free will, chooses to commit crimes, then what the hell is Lumine on about with "going maverick at will"? If a human wants to rob a bank they don't have to manually mess with their brain chemistry to enable them to do it, completely incapable of doing so beforehand.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:29:04 2023 No.9543876

>>9542472
According to something Daisuke (who didn't write the XX story mode) said decades later. There's nothing about it actually in the old game itself. Even the recent comments from him don't actually say "trans from the beginning" explicitly. Just that the general direction or message was something he had in mind. Who knows what that means really, we can't read his mind. That's the point though, you don't need to accept creator comments decades later as sacred, especially when they don't fit previous comments or the content of the work.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:32:56 2023 No.9543882

>>9543863
>Volt Kraken
To be fair, Volt Kraken, while dismissive of his former job, was willing to hand over the part before he went maverick right in front of X and Zero.
As for the Hunters not disbanding, one could argue that there's not many other options; Repliforce would depend on when it was created in relation to the Hunters and if you take the blurb in the manual as canon, they apparently weren't that great to begin with.
Granted, a large part of the Hunters' existence and presumed continued operation is largely due to X and Zero, to the point that X stepping down crippled them badly enough to leave a vacuum for Red Alert to fill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:34:10 2023 No.9543883 >>9543860 It's amazing just how much of a lynchpin Dr. Light was. Remove Light from the equation and everything goes to shit almost immediately.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:37:10 2023 No.9543890

>>9543863
>but when Sigma, their fucking leader, went maverick and started this whole mess, the organization still wasn't disbanded.
That's another thing. After Sigma went rogue what was the very next thing Cain did? Put Zero in charge, the random robot with an even more mysterious history than X who when first discovered WAS A FUCKING MAVERICK.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:43:36 2023 No.9543904 >>9543890 I don't think anyone knows who was in charge of the Hunters between Sigma leaving and X taking his place as commander in X4.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:46:13 2023 No.9543908

>>9543882
The Maverick Hunters were a solution in search of a problem.
>>9543580
It's all here. Cain saw the first glimpses of reploids going batty and instead of the rational solution of ceasing production to figure out the part of Light's work that he doesn't yet understand, he just builds more reploids and gives them badges. Once that happens it's a nonstop cycle. The humans are then outgunned so the only way to stop a reploid is another reploid. But they're still being designed based on incomplete understanding of X's schematics so that means they're knowingly building more mavericks, too. It's impossible to pull the plug and there's nobody as competent as Dr. Light to figure out the flaw. Hell, that alone is a bit of a plot hole regarding the Light Capsules. If it's really Light's consciousness or intelligent AI instead of a holographic recording then they could just ask him.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:48:43 2023 No.9543910

>>9543908
>Cain saw the first glimpses of reploids going batty and instead of the rational solution of ceasing production to figure out the part of Light's work that he doesn't yet understand, he just builds more reploids and gives them badges.
>X8 ends with humanity, desperate to move to the moon, restarting new-gen reploid development despite said reploids having the capacity to willingly go maverick.
How poetic.

Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:49:10 2023 No.9543912

>>9543908
>rational solution of ceasing production
From this I think there were way too many human investors (and probably human jobs) involved in the entire Reploid producing industry to just cease operations. Either that or there are privately-owned factories that don't answer to authorities because of lobbying.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 4 23:50:32 2023 No.9543913 >>9543910 >>9543912 Yup, Mega Man X is the most accurate storytelling of all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 00:05:40 2023 No.9543935 >>9543883 Remove Light from the equation and nothing ever happened.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 00:59:03 2023 No.9544004 File: 89 KB, 850x300, alucard_&_richter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9542052 Don't even play Mega Man games and I enjoyed reading this, thank you, anon.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 01:15:59 2023 No.9544035

>>9543815
Because Colonel was a high-ranking member of that organization and Japanese people operate under the assumption that if you're in charge, everyone is supposed to follow lock in step with your instructions without speaking out.
Repliforce in general works as a parallel to the Imperial Japanese Army in multiple respects.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 02:51:17 2023 No.9544086 He became a "sigma"-male, went MGTOW and dedicated his life to fighting robo post-apocalypse clown world

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 02:55:46 2023 No.9544093

>>9543834
Man I don't know what country you live in but that's pretty standard here. You basically deserve whatever you get if you fuck with cops here because they're the final word on everything that isn't army matters. You don't get an argument in the matter, you just live with it because you don't have the same rights they do. That's just the way things are and you learn to accept it. Hell I have to make these posts on a vpn because for all I know they're watching me and I don't feel like being pulled in for questioning about not being sufficiently pro-party or some shit.

>>9543856
Why leave alive people you're torturing just so that they'll hate you? Makes more sense to just kill them when you're done with them.

>>9543860
Neo Arcadia is a literal paradise for humans while Copy X and later Harpuia were in charge.

>>9543863
>The Maverick Hunters have no shortage of issues but oh, a plot with grey morality is too much, you see.
Did you notice that the majority of those issues started with X4, the game that actually attempted to tell a story? Before that all we got was "Sigma turned evil for some reason. Next game we found out he had a virus in him and he's part of the internet. Next game he's back again for some reason." There wasn't really much to question because the plot was barely there, and that's fine. You don't need more than "That dastardly Wily is at it again!" Even when they try to paint Wily with some sympathy, it always turns out he was secretly behind some evil plot anyway.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:02:31 2023 No.9544107 File: 626 KB, 619x2043, Mega_Man_X_DiVE_Hunter_Program_Alia.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I was going to come here just to say that Aile is a qt, but she's not retro. Alia is cute though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:04:31 2023 No.9544110 >>9544107 What purpose is there in giving a robot boobs? Robots can't get horny. Was she originally a sexbot for humans?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:06:09 2023 No.9544116 >>9544110 Oil dispensers for baby robots obviously

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:07:40 2023 No.9544117 >>9544116 But there are no baby robots. The idea of robots even being male or female doesn't even matter outside of aesthetics.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:10:46 2023 No.9544123

>>9544110
There has to be in this setting humans that want to fuck the shit out of robots, we just never see them because humans aren't the focus. I don't believe anyone that says otherwise. If robots are there to fulfill work for humans, them robo prostitutes have to exist.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:37:44 2023 No.9544181

>>9544035
All the more reason to not assume they were responsible for Sky Lagoon considering Repliforce and the Maverick Hunters are theoretically on the same side. It's like if after 9/11 the NYPD tried to arrest a commanding officer of the National Guard on suspicion he blew up the towers and if the guy didn't immediately bow his head declare the entire National Guard maverick. Nobody is saying what Colonel did was smart. But the Maverick Hunters were at least equally responsible for the problems.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:41:57 2023 No.9544187

>>9544093
>Man I don't know what country you live in but that's pretty standard here. You basically deserve whatever you get if you fuck with cops here because they're the final word on everything that isn't army matters. You don't get an argument in the matter, you just live with it because you don't have the same rights they do. That's just the way things are and you learn to accept it. Hell I have to make these posts on a vpn because for all I know they're watching me and I don't feel like being pulled in for questioning about not being sufficiently pro-party or some shit.
And Mega Man X4 has X and Zero working for that kind of police force but we're supposed to think that Repliforce was 100% at fault?

X and Zero are naive about the people they work for and their intentions. Both of them are well meaning but they end up becoming hired goons and it's not until Zero kills Iris that he realizes it. X meanwhile practically has a nervous breakdown and quits a few games later.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:45:50 2023 No.9544197

>>9544110
If reploids were made to work alongside humans then making them resemble humans is a good way to engender trust. We do this kind of thing today in the real world. There's no practical reason for Alexa and Siri to sound like young women but nobody would use them if they sounded like Bobcat Goldthwait.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 03:57:14 2023 No.9544213

>>9544093
>Did you notice that the majority of those issues started with X4, the game that actually attempted to tell a story?
And? Didn't affect the gameplay at all. If anything it keeps people talking about the games and having cool stuff to discuss to this day, and that is a plus. This lore discussion thread wasn't the first and won't be the last. You're just complaining for the sake of it.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:03:45 2023 No.9544223

>>9544213
>Didn't affect the gameplay at all.
No, going to the playstation did that because everything became more sluggish.
>You're just complaining for the sake of it.
First off, wheredoyouthinkweare.jpg. Secondly, my complaint is the games shouldn't have a story beyond a bare minimum because Capcom doesn't have the writing chops for it. At the very least, not a serious story, they can do a goofy lighthearted story like legends just fine.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:05:13 2023 No.9544229 >>9542273 Came here for this

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:06:26 2023 No.9544231

>>9544187
>And Mega Man X4 has X and Zero working for that kind of police force but we're supposed to think that Repliforce was 100% at fault?
No I was saying they're at fault for fighting back. Eventually you have to learn your place in the world if you want to survive.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:06:31 2023 No.9544232 For a game that supposedly had such a shit story, X4 engenders a shit ton of rational discussion about the nature of authority and political conflict.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:08:16 2023 No.9544234 Who was the first reploid Dr. Cain created?

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:10:50 2023 No.9544237

>>9544231
Repliforce was the standing military, not some random gang. They had the public's support right up until the Maverick Hunters decided to blame them for Sky Lagoon which was caused by one of their own. It'd be like if a rogue cop murdered a bunch of people and the police union decided to blame the fire department.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:12:24 2023 No.9544239 >Reploids have free will and intelligence on the level of humans or beyond >but some Reploids are strictly superior to others in ways that can be physiologically measured in the most specific terms what could go wrong?

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:13:05 2023 No.9544240

>>9544232
Anon, literally everything in X4 happens because the cast are retards
>General never tells anyone about his secret meeting with Sigma
>Colonel refuses to comply with orders because he's obsessed with honor (later retconned to him being literally incapable of choosing peace as an option because that aspect of him is all in Iris)
>General proceeds to do the thing Sigma wanted him to do even though he said he'd never betray humans
>General then proceeds to point a giant orbital laser at earth
>General is then SHOCKED that Sigma had taken over said orbital laser
>Zero kills his waifu that we have no reason to care about because she's had about 5 total minues of screentime.
>also the guy called Double is a double agent and no one saw that coming.
Gendering discussion doesn't mean something is well-written. Gundam Wing raises discussion about the morality of drone warfare, it doesn't change that it's a show where half the cast is either insane or irrational and the discussion around aspects of the show's worldbuilding is far more interesting than anything that actually happens in the show itself.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:14:00 2023 No.9544241 >>9544237 The robot master stage descriptions are pretty hilarious considering how little fucks Maverick Hunter HQ give when immediately after listing off all the Repliforce enemies they're like "Dragoon is a traitor." Not a single "oops" to be heard.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:17:51 2023 No.9544246

>>9544240
>(later retconned to him being literally incapable of choosing peace as an option because that aspect of him is all in Iris)
Every single retcon in Mega Man history has been for the worse. Like what the fuck is this? How do you build a robot that is literally incapable of not choosing war and then promoting him up the ranks of your robot military? Wily and Robotnik combined couldn't do as much damage as Dr. Cain did. The level of idiocy this introduces is astonishing.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:20:59 2023 No.9544254
File: 2.39 MB, 2048x2048, Mega_Man_X_DiVE_Hunter_Program_Iris_-another-.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9544246
Because iris and Colonel were originally one robot that was too powerful to contain in one body or something so they were split into two, which is how they're brother and sister. That part isn't a retcon, that part comes from design documents made during X4. The retcon comes from them getting opposing viewpoints as a result of the splitting and Iris tried to kill Zero because she literally went insane without her other half existing, so she tried to imperfectly re-merge with her brother's core (the purple orb she's holding) and dies from the rider armor it created exploding around her.

Pic related was their original form.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:29:36 2023 No.9544274 Ya'll may hate me but I just never liked the giant boots thing.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:32:31 2023 No.9544282

>>9544254
I mean...okay but that doesn't make it any less stupid in-universe. It's like the humans built reploids in the worst possible way. Dr. Cain looks at X and thinks "I can do that" and kinda sorta does it but things go wrong. That part makes sense and you can follow the logic. Dude was over ambitious and underestimated how important some things were. It also shows how much more talented a robotics engineer Light was compared to everyone else. But then you get to these super robots and it all falls apart. Iris goes crazy because her other half is gone? It's like reploids are actually a regression on the OG robot masters, who either have to be forcibly reprogrammed by Wily or, like in Mega Man 9, convinced to fight for their own survival. Reploids are waaaay more dangerous because they can just go crazy for unexpected reasons. But then people keep building bigger and stronger ones.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:34:47 2023 No.9544289 >>9544282 Remember that Dr. Cain wasn't a roboticist, he was an archaeologist

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:35:11 2023 No.9544291 >>9544282 >It's like the humans built reploids in the worst possible way. Maybe they did? There's no rule that events have to be logical. Technology can both regress and progress at the same time in different directions.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:38:12 2023 No.9544298

>>9544282
>It's like reploids are actually a regression on the OG robot masters
They pretty explicitly are, the more you think about it, the more you realize tech in the Classic timeline was WAY more advanced than in the X games. Classic timeline was basically a robot-human paradise whenever Wily wasn't up to no good
>or, like in Mega Man 9, convinced to fight for their own survival.
Did you not finish the game? The reveal was they never willingly rebelled, they were going to accept termination because welp, I guess that's how the cookie crumbles. Then Wily got a hold of their memory circuit and set them to "rebel" so that he could sell everyone the solution.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:41:54 2023 No.9544310

>>9544291
True. But if Reploids are causing so many problems why not just go back to building OG robots again? They're just as competent at the things you need them to do but they aren't going to try to murder you out of the blue because some random bug introduced by Dr. Cain who, like >>9544289 said, isn't even a roboticist.

I understand that the reploids that already exist will want to be allowed to carry on as normal but, frankly, given how things played out, when Repliforce declares it wants to start it's own country free of humans the smart thing is to fucking let them because who wants reploids hanging around after three games worth of full scale robot attacks? The best way to end the coup is just let them take a spot of land and stay there. You don't even have to give them good land. They're machines. Give them Greenland and tell them to go away.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:43:05 2023 No.9544314 >>9544298 He still negotiated with them to get them to agree in the first place. They let him mess with their programming.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:44:49 2023 No.9544321

>>9544314
yeah but he tricked them into believing he was going to give them new jobs. Classic MM robots are kinda like the robots in....I think it was an Asimov story, I can't remember, where basically the robots are perfectly happy with what's basically slavery because it gives them purpose in life so when you take away their job, they're upset for reasons they don't understand and can't express, and that reason is because their only reason for existing, their task, was taken away from them.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:46:40 2023 No.9544329

>>9544240
>General never tells anyone about his secret meeting with Sigma
Either he didn't recognize Sigma's face because he was hiding it with the cloak, or he wasn't insane enough to tell the Hunters that "hey, Sigma stopped by to have a chat with me, the boss of Repliforce. Don't arrest me or anything."
The Final Weapon was a space colony they would use to fuck off from planet Earth and the laser cannon was the proverbial nuclear deterrent to back up their claim of independence. Sigma taking over it was a surprise because Repliforce never actually faced Sigma in combat, as they were founded in the interim between X3 and X4 when Sigma was gone.
Zero's story in the game was dumb though, I agree.
>>9544254
>DiVE
I don't like this taiwanese 2D anime girl skinnerbox even if it is generating new canon content.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:47:48 2023 No.9544335
File: 1.97 MB, 2989x1403, Iris_Another_Designs_1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>9544329
>I don't like this taiwanese 2D anime girl skinnerbox even if it is generating new canon content.
Just don't like that it didn't give us one of the superior other designs they had in mind with Iris -Another-. She could've had a hat!

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:48:38 2023 No.9544336 >>9544321 Wily is probably Light's equal in terms of genius. He built Bass who then promptly told Wily to go fuck himself so he's definitely on the cusp of introducing free will independent of Light. He just seems to have done it by accident.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:49:32 2023 No.9544338 >>9544336 >He built Bass who then promptly told Wily to go fuck himself Not really. Like >>9541596 said, he always goes back to Wily's lab at the end of the day because he IS following the task he was given, to be the strongest

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:50:26 2023 No.9544340

>>9544282
>Iris goes crazy because her other half is gone?
Iris and Colonel are two halves of the same brain with the corpus callosum severed, and do operate erratically when the other half is missing. It's like part of your hard drive getting busted and becoming a big mass of bad blocks and corrupt files.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:51:50 2023 No.9544343 >>9544338 >>9544336 I mean he basically programmed Bass to be Vegeta.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:55:18 2023 No.9544354

Kind of tangential but I really like Mega Man 11's intro where it shows a young Light and Wily arguing about robotics. It's obvious that Dr. Light was the only sane man who wanted to advance robot technology but foresaw all the consequences if left untethered from ethics.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:56:00 2023 No.9544356 File: 116 KB, 1058x705, there comes a point where this needs to stop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>9544354 And Wily meanwhile is pic related

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 04:57:32 2023 No.9544358

>>9544354
In fact I kind of wonder if the reason he built X in the first place is because Rock was essentially his son and he was sick of sending him into fights that left him tattered instead of a robot that would be peaceful if allowed to be but could choose to fight willingly and was actually equipped to if necessary. he probably had a crisis of conscience since Rock's willingness to be Mega Man wasn't ENTIRELY willing.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 05:00:57 2023 No.9544365

>>9544358
Light programmed Rock to have a strong sense of justice (doing the correct things), and Rock asks him to give him a gun and armor so he can go clean up the world as he does the house. Needless to say, Light building X to create his own directives rather than having them programmed into his brain must've stemmed from his worries that his programming skills can only make robots that choose violence first.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 05:01:03 2023 No.9544368 >>9544356 Considering that Zero is at least equal to X in every which way it's a wonder why Wily even tried to attack the world at all. He could have been a rival product line to Light's, matching him tit for tat and even exceeding in some ways.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 05:01:25 2023 No.9544373 >>9544368 Because he is INCREDIBLY petty.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 05:06:45 2023 No.9544387

>>9544365
Well keep in mind the majority of RM did simple tasks (the ones in 1 were all built for industrial work), Rock getting programmed with a belief in doing what's right is pretty unique. Contrast him with Roll who is basically just there to sweep and be a general helper for Light when he doesn't need Auto.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 5 05:09:24 2023 No.9544394 >>9544387 Anon please. Light built Roll to do cleaning AND cooking. She's a robo-maid that for some reason is a little girl.

Anonymous Thu Jan 5 13:52:25 2023 No.9545123

>>9544358
I believe one of the complete works for maybe Zero ties Light beginning work on X with Roboenza. He wanted to build a robot that wouldn't succumb to viruses since Mega Man ended up getting it, and "free will" was just the natural evolution of what robots could be.

>>	Anonymous Fri Jan 6 03:24:54 2023 No.9547121 >>9542250 Amazing how 2 scientists greatest creations led to a war that destroyed the world.

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