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/vr/ - Retro Games

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9519495 No.9519495 [Reply] [Original]

Are these actually good or just licensed action slogs for hardcore fans who give everything a minimum 8/10 that has the original music and sound effects?

Is there an absolute best among them?

>> No.9519514

>>9519495
Only played the original Dark Forces, but I absolutely loved it. I got it in 2015 not expecting much, but was pleasantly surprised by how good the level design was. Best Doom clone next to Duke Nukem

>> No.9519524

>>9519495
No. They are quite bad. People will start spamming yes they are amazing. They are lying. Just plat Outcast 2 for 30 min. You will get lost more than once because of terrible level design. In Jedi Academy you don't get lost true, but when level design feels like vomit tat doesn't mean much. As for combat, weapons feel bad, lightsaber combat is just terrible. It's basically holding down mouse button, devs didn't even test dual sabers.

>> No.9519532

Dark Forces 1 is pretty mediocre.

>> No.9519554

>>9519495
dark forces I isn't really worth playing past the initial novelty of it being an official starwars doom clone.
dark forces II is a very cool game but also a janky, tedious one. It's an interesting amalgamation of quake and halflife if you can get past its issues.
when outcast is good it's sublime, the first time the training wheels get taken off and you can freely slice n dice with the force is one of my favorite pure fun gaming moments of all time. unfortunately the good aspects are matched by equally terrible design in cheap anti fun stage hazards and enemies like the instakill gredos, and some of the most tedious level design of all time. I think it's worth playing at least for a couple of hours to get to that first jedi section and then deciding if you want tough the shitty elements.

>> No.9519560

>>9519524
Do any of them really feel like SW and look like SW at least? Obviously the older ones not so much

>> No.9519563

>>9519524
>As for combat, weapons feel bad, lightsaber combat is just terrible
this is a very uncommon view in regards to the saber, don't take his word for it without trying.

>> No.9519571

>>9519554
>instakill gredos
I guess you shouldn't let them shoot first.

>> No.9519575

>>9519560
yes, the aesthetics are one of the things they mostly get bang on.

>> No.9519716

Is this one of the series where the newer game is always better? Which one to try?

>> No.9519741

>>9519495
Those all vary between 8/10 to 10/10, but seeing as you must be a zoomer (at best) since you don't know this, I'd stick to the ones with cool lightsabers and linear level design, ie. Outcast & Academy.

>> No.9519742

I remember Jedi Outcast getting good once you get Jedi powers but every time I replay I get walled by the starting level which is both incredibly boring and incredibly frustrating.

>> No.9519828

>>9519495
every single one of these is a masterpiece

>> No.9519896

>>9519524
This

>> No.9519912

Dark Forces was both critically acclaimed and a best sellers. Its innovative influence could be felt in the entire FPS genre and in Duk Nukmen 3D and Build games as a whole.

Additionally it's what's gotten me back into Star Wars and made me watch the prequels through after giving up twice in the past half way through episode 1

>> No.9519932

>>9519495
>>9519495
>>9519495

Jedi Knight Dark forces is the GOAT. Everything after it feels like a cheap clone with a slightly better coat of paint (and like they just repeat the plot several times)

Kyle Katarn is a pretty cool fanfiction-e character, and Jann has a fat ass. Personally, I grew up on the Outcast series and though it was fun as a kid, I wouldn't play it today because its pretty archaic. In a lot of ways, it is incredibly bad compared to games much older than it is (Hexen 2 comes to mind). I think until recently its been tough to do good 3rd person lightsaber combat in videogames, though they did a good job in Academy. I recommend people try Jedi Outcast for the story, and play academy for the game play. If you want a fun little goofy FMV ride that was fairly ahead of its time, the original Dark forces 2 is pretty good.

>> No.9519939

>>9519495
the entire Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series is peak Star Wars gaming

>> No.9519951

Played Outcast it had the most monotonous and dullest locations ever throughout the whole game. Literally just dark starship corridors. Such a waste of potential for a Star Wars game

Does any of them actually have a variety of SW locations? I'd say this would be the best one hands down

>> No.9519958

>>9519741
>and linear level design
>outcast
this some kind of sick joke?

>> No.9519976

>>9519932
outcast definitely has serious issues overall but you're downplaying the saber-force combat to an absurd degree. very few hack n slash had a good enough core to spawn a decade long melee pvp community.

>> No.9520045

>>9519976
Honestly, it feels quite janky. I don't think it's niche popularity is that important. There was a remaster recently and nobody enjoyed it. It's basically rose tinted glasses.

>> No.9520054

>>9519495
Dark Forces 1 and 2, and Jedi Outcast are legendary in their own right

>> No.9520138

>>9520045
I guess potato patato, I'll give you the way it specifically works in duels taking a little to get used to but I really challenge anybody to play that first bar section and write it off just as archaic jank.

>> No.9520171

Can someone please explain to me what's supposed to be so great or revoutionary about the sword combat in Outcast/Academy?

Playing the latter for an hour now and it's the most basic combat you can imagine, no? I literally W+M1 to the enemy, keep M1 pressed for 3 seconds while my character is swinging the lightsaber with shitty animations and the enemy is dead. Rinse, repeat

Are there any cool advanced things you can do I'm not aware of?

>> No.9520182

>>9520171
Nope. There are some PVP mechanics, but they are about moving the mouse at the right time things like that. Not exactly my idea of fun.

>> No.9520186

>>9519524
>People will start spamming yes they are amazing
Why are they doing this? This thread honestly reads like every second poster is a bot. These games suck ass

>> No.9520562

Jedi Outcast isnt terrible but it is THE most overrated Star Wars game of all time. All the others in this series are a lot better.

>> No.9520618

>>9519524
Filtered fucking zoomer

>> No.9520623

>>9519532
I thought it had a really cool retro appeal but then again, I've never played Doom, and I never finished Dark Forces either.

>> No.9520637

>>9519495
The old ones are idtech clones, the newer ones actually license an idtech engine. If you like that they're anywhere from ok to pretty good, if you don't they're anywhere from boring to just another shooter.

>> No.9520653

>>9520623
Its level design is ass in comparison to Doom, and the concepts it pioneered were not good until Duke Nukem made them good.

>> No.9520848

>>9519495
Yes, every single one is good even if you don’t like Star Wars.
If you do like Star Wars it makes them even better.

>> No.9520851

>>9520848
None of them are good in any way besides incorporating shit that's already there, like the Star Wars score

>> No.9520856

>>9520851
Total nonsense.
Dark Forces 1 was an above average doom clone that had features you wouldn’t see until Duke Nukem 3D a year later.
Dark Forces 2 was an above average early 3D accelerated fps with force abilities gimmick. Pretty good graphics and highly detailed environments for the time.
Jedi Knight 2/3 had great physics, level design, and melee combat that was seamless.
They succeed mechanically as video games, the Star Wars license is just a bonus.

>> No.9520957

>>9519495
I never liked dark forces 2, or the first person gameplay in general of the knight games, the first one had a really nice punch to the guns, and that was lost in translation when it went 3d...but the third person lightsaber combat was great at least, that was the main draw for later games, it's just a shame the fps part took a hit.

>> No.9520989

Back then in December of 95 a friend of mine was playing Dark Forces on his DX4 and albeit it was very well made it was in no way comparable to Doom. Some of the magazines were praising it for its "realism" and that the maps had a sense of purpose. I liked the sewers but overall it was just a well made clone for a very different audience.

>> No.9520990

>>9520653

The hype was mostly generated by magazines.

>> No.9520997

>>9519495
outcast and academy are good

>> No.9521006

>>9519495
Jedi Knight 2 had the best light saber combat in a game ever, and I suppose multiplayer for it was amazing. But outside of that they're dated doom clones, that aren't bad, but really aren't amazing, and quite old pretty quick. If you are a starwars fan, you might lose your shit. Not bad games, just not special these days.

>> No.9521023

>>9521006
>just not special these days.
I disagree. there isn't anything that really offers the same combination of melee combat and platforming abilities. closest thing maybe is one of the super hero games or control as a shooter but none of them are nearly as slick, especially with outcast being designed primarily around mouse control. being extremely uneven in quality doesn't necessarily mean not special.

>> No.9521027

>>9521023
Yeah, I can see how I contradicted myself with my statement, the light saber and force abilities are of course special. Would I should say is personally it's not enough for me to be amazed with the game these days.

>> No.9521041

>>9519495
They are better than Battlefront. But not as good as Kotor (or even that Force Unleashed linear game)

SW is mid, so the games being better than the movies is at least a net positive.

>> No.9521046

>>9519524
I expected more memes like yours, but not so fast. Did you also have trouble with aiming in first person? Did mommy have to beat it for you?

>> No.9521114

>>9520856
>it was a poop clone
>and don't forget poop forever!
Yeah amazing. I totally still play those boring shit games today

>> No.9521796

>>9520171
>literally W+M1
>any cool advanced things I can do
You mean like:
https://www.ign.com/articles/2002/07/25/star-wars-jedi-knight-ii-jedi-outcast-acrobatics-and-moves-list-365849

?????

On top of the fact that attacks are directionally based, so spamming W+M1 is only using 1 type of attack?

>> No.9521806

>>9521114
>>I'm a faggot
>>I'm a HUUUGE faggot
>Don't forget I'm a gigantic fucking faggot!

What did he mean by this post?

>> No.9521843

>>9519524
>people will start spamming yes they are amazing

Gee, I wonder why, oh that's right, because they are, regardless of what some retarded autist says on a Scottish binge drinking forum has to say about it.

>> No.9521861

>>9519828
correct

>> No.9521869

>>9520618
>>9521046
>>9521843
These are the best arguments brought to you by Jedi Knight fans.
>>9520186
I have no idea given the ones that don't go in depth are more likely to be bots., but fans of this games was always were small in number and acted this way.
>>9521796
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ZlTTPcM1o If you master the combat you can play the game like this in the game. When you pull off those moves, it feels even more retarded than how it looks like so wouldn't recommend wasting your time.
A bit of warning watching videos/playing the game like this will cause motion sickness, as action games shouldn't change camera this fast.

>> No.9521897

>>9521869
lol I have never seen so much hate for this series. I personally loved it. I love the cheesy story its way more interesting and fun then any of the last 7 or 8 however many Disney has pumped out. It felt like you were IN the Star Wars universe. That said lvl design while i love the aesthetic personally its pretty atrocious on a lvl beyond Half-life. And they do lean way into the saber and powers as time goes on in the series which is a shame. Still a fun romp through and you do get that SW feeling.

>> No.9521973

>>9521897
Given people are calling this a master piece, I'm trying warn people. I don't have it to this level, but games are filled with issues. I played them as a kid, that's why I know the combat system works. Would get headaches because of it. It took a me while to understand it was caused by camera.

>> No.9522001

>>9519495
Play Jedi Academy.

>> No.9522086

dark forces was great until the added jedi shit to it

>> No.9522132
File: 32 KB, 480x628, 81f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9522132

>>9521897
>And they do lean way into the saber and powers as time goes on in the series which is a shame

>> No.9522143

>>9521869
>motion sickness
lmao imagine being weak

>> No.9522158
File: 77 KB, 807x594, kaz_hirai_laughing[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9522158

>>9521806
read that in his voice

>> No.9522171

>>9521869
>A bit of warning watching videos/playing the game like this will cause motion sickness, as action games shouldn't change camera this fast.
ok grandpa, it's time to put you in a home

>> No.9522185

I remember Dark Forces being really popular and Jedi Knight being really hated by the gaming mags around here. I played Jedi Knight, but I don't remember much, other than that you could select which side of the force you trained yourself in, for different powers.

>> No.9522202

>>9521869
Dumb opinions should be mocked, not entertained. People trying to rewrite history should be attacked, not welcomed. Fuck off.

>> No.9522243

star wars is homosexual and satanic.

>> No.9522250

>>9522243
shut the fuck up grandma

>> No.9522269

>>9522250
no

>> No.9522321

>>9521796
>?????
What do you mean by that? I asked a normal question. Not like the story mode teaches me any cool things I can do with the lightsaber of what I played or like I even need any. I can beat everything by just W+M1ing and the animations are so bad and unintuitive that I doubt it will ever incentivize learning a lot more than that

>> No.9522323

>>9522243
No one is talking about the sequels

>> No.9522337

>>9522243
You're a circumcised american so you're going to hell no matter what you do on 4chan, golem.

>> No.9522340

>>9522243
>star wars is homosexual and satanic.
You say that like its a bad thing

>> No.9522426

>>9519514

Well - I am a big SW fan so am massively biased in some ways, but I love this series of games because they are good in their own right.

Dark Forces
Yes - in some ways it's just a SW licensed Doom Clone, but they desinged their own engine (Jedi) brought in vertical aiming (which was not common at the time) and some really entertaning gameplay. In more recent incarnations, you can play as au naturel, as God intended with just keys, but it's pretty fun playing it with Mouselook and WASD now.

Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight
My favourite in terms of story and level design, based on what was possible at the time with what was (IIR) a modded Quake Engine. DFII was a shooter that pushed boundaries with the sort of large, sprawling, vertigo inducing outdoor spaces in full 3D that you got in many of the levels, as well as looking pretty good for 1997 standards. It also had a lightsaber in, and isn't the best use of it in the series, but is still fun. The 'remastered' patch improves it a lot as well.

Mysteries of the Sith
Pretty tough, but enjoyable, it's best viewed as a continuation of Jedi Knight in terms of its difficulty curve, rather than as a game in it's own right - you need to have patience however. It's also nice to explore the Mara Jade arc that seems to have been consigned to Legends. Relatively novel features in this game for the time were friendly NPCs that engaged in combat with you.

Jedi Outcast
My favourite in terms of gameplay mechanics, they really nailed the Lightsaber combat and Force powers here. The story and level design isn't as good as DFII, but the gameplay in my view makes up for it.

Jedi Academy
More of similar from Outcast, plus more saber styles and moves - plus more varied locations. It's the one I come back to the most as it's so modular.

>> No.9524654

>>9519932

df2:jk was incredible online. fast as fuck dm, and bad ass LS duels. modding and hax were off the chain also.

>> No.9524734

>>9522243
star wars is the quintessential basedboy franchise

>> No.9524737

>>9524734
*onions boy franchise