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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 97 KB, 256x257, Final_Fantasy_Legend_II_Coverart.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
943308 No.943308 [Reply] [Original]

Why do you guys like this game so much? I grew up with FFL3/SaGa3 and decided to give 2 a shot because people keep saying it's better, and I'm just not excited about it at all. The combat system is limited and boring and the world and story also seem incredibly dull after playing for a few hours. People rave about the meat eating/transformation system but all it seems to be doing is randomizing one character in my party.

Should I keep going? Does it get better or will I just not like the rest of it?

>> No.943338

I also think it is better, but if you aren't into it, I don't think you will get into it.

that being said I just finished both nds remakes and they play very well.

>> No.943346

I actually never played 3. I thought FFL1 was a fun and easy RPG. But I could get my 5 year old head around the monster and food of FFL2 so I skipped FFL3. Might as well try them out again since now there's guides all over I could understand what the fuck I was doing.

>> No.943874

>>943308
Here's how the meat/transformation system works...

As you know it works on Monsters, right? Now when a monster eats some meat, that monster transforms into whatever type of monster the meat game from, like a Ghost for example. Eating the meat from ANOTHER Ghost will make your monster a more powerful form of Ghost. A third ghost meat will get your monster even more powerful!

If you find meat from ANOTHER type of monster, your level 3 Ghost will go to a level 1 of that type. Savvy?

Consider it kind of like a very early Pokemon evolution system.

>> No.943891

>>943874
Ignore this guy; that's not how it works at all.

http://www.shenafu.com/ffl2/evolve.php

>> No.943961
File: 463 KB, 800x800, 1240920009902.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
943961

>>943308
>The combat system is limited and boring and the world and story also seem incredibly dull after playing for a few hours.
Compared to Final Fantasy Legend III? In FFLII you can equip more than a single weapon, you can easily equip two swords, a gun, and a spell book on a human, it gives you item management and plenty of versatility during battles. How does it give you item management? You need to give items which you deem useful for the characters eight slots. Do you want a bunch of single hit skills, mob control skills, ones that exploit elemental weaknesses, or a bit of a mix of all of them? Not only that the charge and durability system encourages the player to use more powerful skills during random encounters unlike other JRPG's which you find yourself restricting yourself from doing that and gravitate towards your standard attack command.

>> No.943963

>People rave about the meat eating/transformation system but all it seems to be doing is randomizing one character in my party.
No, you are only looking at 25% of the entire race system. You aren't looking at robots that develop through items and items alone, and their durability points getting halved through equipping items but you can give them powerful items and keep on getting them refilled at the inn, and giving them very powerful armors to make them physical tanks. You are ignoring mutants that develop slowly but have their own natural magical abilities which you can get a random spell after battle and they can carry up to four spells and you can switch among your spells so you can get rid of a spell you don't want. Then you have humans which develop quickly unlike mutants, and they develop directly through battles. They will always have eight slots available to them so you can choose how they develop, into more expensive spell casters through tomes and staves, or warriors, or gunslingers? You aren't even giving the meat transformation justice, with eating meat you can get a stronger or weaker monster. Weak monster meat will weaken your monster were as stronger monster meat will give you a chance to give you a much stronger monster. Not only that but monsters have their own weaknesses and resistances along with their own fixed move pools.

Final Fantasy Legend II has great pacing and areas. You are constantly going somewhere and it doesn't take hours to do so (especially since the game is around 8~12 hours long). You'll be going from standard JRPG settings to futuristic ones, under water volcanoes, palaces in the sky, race tracks, there is variety.

Then comparing all of that to Final Fantasy Legend III you can easily see why Final Fantasy Legend II is regarded as the best in the trilogy because of how safe and standard FFL3 is.

>> No.944494

>>943308
how is the story dull?
>your father is an adventurer, disappears, and you chase after him
>you meet allies along the way and learn of a dangerous threat seeking power you never heard of
>you seek to restore balance by collecting this power yourself
>you meets gods in other worlds who seek to do the same
>one of your allies becomes your biggest foe
>you find your father but only after the traitor shows his face
>doomsday scenario
>save the universe or die

>> No.944620

>>943963
Okay, you convinced me, I'll keep going with it. I suppose I kinda skipped over the manual so I wasn't sure what the major class differences were, and I wasn't really thinking about the inventory system in the way you described. And if its that short I haven't got much to lose, have I? Thanks to the other anon too for the link on class info.

>> No.944664
File: 303 B, 32x32, FFLII_Dad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
944664

>>943961
GOD HOW FUCKING COOL IS IT WHEN YOUR DAD MEETS UP TO FIGHT ASHURA? But you don't know its your dad, fuck seriously Dad is the best RPG character ever. You have to fill a lot of detail in your head old games require imagination and it gets me more immersed. FUCK YOU OP SaGa 2 is fucking best I would not play the remake though ewwww.

>> No.944671

>>944494
How is your dad a traitor? Yeah its implied he was banging Lynns mom but he was leader of the guardians, he was out to protect the world from the gods.

>> No.945439

>>944664
Mask and Dad are not the same person. They both appear on screen at the same time at least once. I'm not entirely sure that was supposeto be an implication.
>>944671
The traitor he means is apollo

>> No.945450

>>944671
Mask is lynn's dad, who works for your dad. The cheating thing was a misunderstanding. More obvious in japanese.

>> No.945453

>>944664
Remake is amazing. Eww your face.

>> No.945457

so do i have to grind in this game or what? my characters are getting obliterated in the first dungeon.

>> No.945620

OP here. I can't do it. This game has awesome mechanics but I am bored as sin playing it. Maybe I'll try the DS version. Sorry dudes, thanks for all the help though.

>> No.945662

>>945620
No need to be sorry. Retro games could only truly be enjoyed during the time in which they were first released. Once you've played better games, you would never want to go back.

>> No.945813
File: 1.95 MB, 2708x1380, FFL10.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
945813

>>944620
Yeah the battle system isn't revolutionary, but then again how many where in the early 90's? Best you usually got was grid based strategy RPG's and Final Fantasy IV's ATB.

>>945453
I hate what they did to the music. Only person who should touch music from Kenji Ito is Kenji Ito, and he only proved it through the Rebirth CD and the Romancing SaGa remake.

>>945457
What is your party? Some parties have a harder time than others. Also you might want to put a tanky character up front of your party since the first character draws the most hits.

I played Final Fantasy Legend II a few months ago and the only time I actually needed to stop and walk around and kill monsters was so my monster could get a decent transformation from monster meat. So no there should be little to no grind in this game.

>>945620
I know the DS version has link attacks and enemies on the field. I generally can't get into most older JRPG's, even SNES ones. Though I played this as a kid and this is probably one of the few if only games I can tolerate random encounters in.

>> No.945841

>>945813

>"This arrangement is not recommended."
It was like they were taunting me to do it.

>> No.945847

>>945841
I know. Who wouldn't want four bad ass robots?

>> No.948445

OP here again. Starting to actually enjoy this game a bit, though I'm still getting my ass fairly handed to me on the regular and i have no goddamn clue how the monster system is working. I'm basically grinding for money to get new equipment for my 3 non-monsters whenever I get to a new area and still scraping by with my overpowered guest unit for dungeons.

I can see the appeal, and the depth seems appealing if you sink enough time into it that you can learn the stats, but right now it's just a mix of normal combat and obfuscated as shit mechanics.

>> No.948456

>>948445
>I'm still getting my ass fairly handed to me on the regular
Welcome to SaGa, it only gets worse. Later entries into the series it isn't uncommon to get wiped in a single turn in a standard encounter, or to have guys getting one to two shotted in non-boss battles.

What is your party? If you have a robot they usually have good defense since you usually equip them with good armor since their stats are directly linked to how good their equipment is so put them up front to take on tons of physical attacks. If not then have a human up front since they can gain gobs of HP in no time. Put your monster far in back. I personally didn't use monsters as a kid when I played Final Fantasy Legend II, though in Final Fantasy Legend 1 I found them good. It wasn't until my recent play through that around mid game the monster was really carrying its own weight.

Unlike a lot of other JRPG's, you are rewarded with exploring dungeons a lot of the time with armor and weapons. Seeing how weapons have durability you better use them when appropriate. Don't be afraid to use power weapons (grenades, vulcans, tanks, and so on) or skills (fire, blizzard, and so on) to make it through the random encounters. They only ramp up in difficulty much more as time goes on, and it isn't uncommon to see a wipe on the first turn if you aren't taking certain enemies seriously.

Thankfully you have Odin for now.

>> No.948459

>>943308
In case you have a ds and a flash cart. They have a english translation of the DS reissue. Its 3d, more fleshed out and complicated.

>> No.948463

>>948459
Also noted that since you liked Final Fantasy Legends 3 so much, they do have a DS reissue of that too. Last i heard they had been working on an english translation but not sure if it was ever finished.

>> No.948465

>>948463
It was finished about two weeks ago I think.

>> No.948472

>>948465
Oh really. Will have to download it. Also hope I don't have to patch it like I did SaGa 2. That shit was confusing.

>> No.948473

>>948472
You have to patch it.

>> No.948483

>>948473
Fucking gay

>> No.948513

>be kid
>get issue of Nintendo Power
>FFL2 guide
>fuck, this game looks awesome
>beg parents to buy it for me
>they don't
>decades later
>emulation
>play through it
>meh

>> No.948561

>>948513
>be kid
>get issue of Nintendo Power
>FFL2 guide
>fuck, this game looks awesome
>get used copy for cheap
>love it
>later get 3 same way
>not bad
>decades later
>emulation
>finally play 1
>hate it

>> No.948582

>>948561
I'm sure if I played as a kid back in '91 I would've loved it. But objectively as an adult, it wasn't a very well executed game even by Gameboy RPG standards.

Wasn't a terrible game, just wasn't impressed by it. The soundtrack was nice, though.

>> No.949613

>>948459

I have those downloaded, they're very pretty and I might open 'em up for replays or something, but for now I think I'll stick to the original versions.

>> No.949646

>>948561
Opposite for me. I bought and played FFL3 first way back. Much later, I played the FFL1 and FFL2 on emulation and felt FFL1 was the best. There was this subtle spiritual and religious quality of the game that drew me in. FF2 and FF3 added too much scifi, which ruined the fantasy setting.

>> No.949662

>>948513
>>948561

>be kid
>Suddenly FF7 is everywhere
>Fuck I want FF like the cool kids but I don't have a playstation
>Find used copy of FFL2
>First real introduction to rpgs
>Fuck why do my people keep dieing
>Robot you are my greatest ally
>Robot basically solos Edo, Odin and the final world
>Make it all the way to the core with a vastly under leveled party
>Get stuck and never beat the game

>> No.949683

>>948459
Is the translation easy to find on google. I downloaded a complete fan translation and I hope it really is complete.

>> No.949708

>>945439
...........Mask and Dad do not appear on screen at the same time. You are mistaken.
It is never stated that Dad=Mask, but it is never stated they Dad=/=Mask.

>> No.949715

>>948483
What, do you want me to upload my own patched version because you can't be bothered to learn something?

>> No.949719

>>948561
are you me?

>> No.949723

Mask = Lynn's Dad
Dad = Your dad.

>On their journey home, the party visits Lynn and her mother. Mask enters the house and is greeted by his wife and daughter.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Mask_%28Legend_II%29

>> No.949821

>>949715
Not the person you replied to but i'm actually having a great deal of trouble with my flashcard marking it as a corrupt nds file. So please?

>> No.949845

>>949821
Your politeness will be rewarded. Will be uploaded in roughly 25 minutes. I m busy right now.

>> No.949882

>>949845
Disregard previuos eta. 40 minutes as of now.

>> No.949940

>>949882
http://www.sendspace.com/file/r786si
Works on my R4 with whatever version of Wood it has.
If it doesn't work for you, I am afraid you're a faggot. Or maybe your card is different or version out of date, I don't know.

>> No.949997

>>945450
ahhh thats awesome then, I knew the translation wasn't that good I just assumed it was your dad hiding his identity. That explanation makes much more sense though. I still think Dad is the coolest since he leads the guardians

>> No.950546
File: 3 KB, 320x288, gungho.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
950546

>>949662
Both copies of 1 and 2 that I bought used, it would appear that the previous owner never beat the game. I've mentioned before that my unfortunate copy of 2 had 3 saves with 3 different parties all stuck at Odin. I still kinda feel bad for the guy.

>> No.950581

>>950546
I bought another copy of FFL2 used all 3 save files stuck at Venus. 2 of them were the same party though, I still laughed pretty hard.

>> No.950620

>start playing
>"jeez, i killed the boss of the first dungeon in 2 hits? this game is going to be a breeze"

>> No.950738

>>950581
>Venus
>Gameboy version
She was impossible to hit but was an easy slut on the ds version. Either:
1. the ds version nerfed her evasion
2. I was a punk kid who didn't raise my speed stat, because when I played the DS version I read a stats/skill/monster guide to see how the levelling system worked.

>> No.950823

>>949646
>FF2 and FF3 added too much scifi
Compared to the ruined futuristic city in which you rode around in a hover bike running away from the worlds boss which has a force field set up on it through a futuristic generator?

>> No.950829

>>950738
That is probably why the robot was my greatest ally during her fight. Now that you mention it he was my biggest damage dealer against Venus with musket and grenade.

>>950546
He was DAMN hard. So hard on my first play through I used BOTH glass sword and my nuke.

>>948582
>it wasn't a very well executed game even by Gameboy RPG standards.
I highly disagree with that statement.

>> No.950847

>>950823
Not to mention there's this bit of speculation.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563273-the-final-fantasy-legend/42749064

Gamma World being... well, "Science Fantasy".

>> No.950862

>>950847
That is really interesting and makes a ton of sense since he did like table top RPG's and really liked board war games. I seriously would like to read more interviews about Kawazu, he has a lot of interesting things to say since where he comes from greatly influences his games.

>> No.950880

>>950862
On Final Fantasy 1:

>Akitoshi Kawazu also worked with the battle system and has said he wanted to make it as close to Dungeons & Dragons role playing game as he could. There were certain precepts to a Dungeons & Dragons type of environment, such as zombies always being weak against fire, or monsters made of fire being weak against ice, in short, certain things being weak against certain other things, and strong against yet other things. Up until that point, Japanese RPGs were ignoring these kinds of relationships. Kawazu found this irritating and wanted to incorporate those precepts of western RPGs into Final Fantasy.

>Kawazu feels that the fun in an RPG begins by creating a character, and he didn't feel the need to have a suggested party at the beginning. Kawazu wanted players to have an option to be all Black Mages or all Warriors if they wanted. In those days it was customary not to think too deeply on these things, and the imbalance a free party creation could have was never really thought of; the idea was to let people figure things out for themselves

I want to call him a genius, but I'll settle with just saying that I really dig his philosophy and style. Just dicking around and doing your own shit is an amazing feeling in an RPG.

>> No.950883

>>950880
I agree. It isn't even about story progression and non-linearity or linearity with it, it is just building your characters. Who you choose and how you build them is important because it is you that is making those decisions and setting out with your powerful or underwhelming party. It can make for unique stories (how many times have I seen BALS TO THE WALL posted in a Final Fantasy 1 thread?) on how they accomplished their victories.

>> No.951451

>>949708
It is stated that dad is not mask. Never beat the game i see.

>> No.951462

>>949708
You are mistaken. Sorry, they do appear on screen at the same time. It's a well known fact they're not the same person.
Mask is Lynne's dad. Dad took care of that family when Ashura captured Mask at least i assume that's when it happened as he took care of lynn's family when her dad went missing. Maybe it was just when mask joined the guardians.
Either way at the end both of them are on screen at once and mask enters the house and is greeted by lynn

>> No.952180

>>951462
> well known fact
okay thats bullshit right there or else it would have been more clear to people who only played the english version

>> No.952438

>>950880
>clones D&D
>genius

wat

>> No.953196
File: 999 B, 32x32, mutantenemy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
953196

>>950880
>in short, certain things being weak against certain other things

I remember as a kid having a hard time figuring out that Prayer was only effective against undead foes. The only RPGs I'd played previously were Dragon Warrior (not too D&D-like as mentioned) and a bit of Final Fantasy "2" which ironically had edited out "holy" magic. D'oh.

>> No.953291

>>952180
I only played the english version. I was never aware that people thought they were the same person.

>> No.953342

OP again. I'm surprised this thread is still live.

Anyway after flip-flopping a couple times I'm pretty on-board with this shit, got the hang of the equipment and ability system (except for losing my useful mutant skills when it hurts the most, grr) and I have a pretty good monster tagging along also. I get the hype, this game is dope. I do tend to check item lists and such from a guide online to prevent wasting my money/time and having to resort to grinding for cash. Maybe I'll even play the DS version after this to try a playthrough with a different party.

So cheers, FFL2 thread, thanks for talking about the game enough to convince me that it must be cool. carry on with dadchat or whatever.

>> No.953418

>>953342

The only thing I will not forgive is moving 3 tiles and getting 3 random battles. Fuck that, I look forward to the enemy-on-map system in the DS remake.

>> No.953568

>>953342
For mutants go into their equip screen then I think you press the select button. When you press select you can switch around your spells. The lowest spell will always get replaced.

>> No.953637

>>953568

Oh, you just mean the lowest one on the list? Fuck me, that makes sense.

>> No.953641

>>953637
Exactly. Lucky they did this in the sequel because in the first SaGa game you couldn't arrange your spells at all.

Sometimes you can get lucky and end up with another Cure in your spell rotation slot so you use those charges up instead of the Cure spell you plan on keeping.

>> No.955787

>>953196
I didn't play this game until years after it came out, just after I'd finished Earthbound.

...I was disappointed that this game's prayer didn't work anything like Paula's prayer.

>> No.955912
File: 36 KB, 342x375, 1343698536202.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
955912

Man, besides the first Dragon Warrior game, this is what got me into RPGs.

Hadn't played it in a few years, but when I made a return to it in my teenage years, I did have a fondness for the system and understood how to properly use certain mechanics.

With that said, I do think 3 is more sound, in the terms of it's mechanics and being more akin to a proper RPG experience.. and one I've yet to beat. Jesus, they need to release these games on the VC.

>> No.955942

>>951462
>Either way at the end both of them are on screen at once and mask enters the house and is greeted by lynn

I thought they both showed up in the ending at the same time, too, but apparently not:
http://youtu.be/2p3WlfHl3z8?t=2m58s

>> No.956160

>"maybe i'll play some saga2"
>load up save on world map
>random battle starts instantly without moving a step
>nope

>> No.956463

>>955912
>With that said, I do think 3 is more sound, in the terms of it's mechanics and being more akin to a proper RPG experience..
By more sound you mean much more standard? It is the only SaGa game not made under Kawazu, and does it show. Final Fantasy Legend III was my first RPG and I do like it, but I find Final Fantasy Legend II to be much better because it breaks away from the mundane growth mechanics of other JRPG's at the time, and hell even now. I am a sucker for JRPG's that don't have overall character levels.

>> No.956681

>>956160
That random battle is not random.

>> No.956958

>>955942
hrm. I swear they were both standing there. But they're still not the same person.

>> No.958103

>>956681

it was while i was standing in a nondescript square on normal land in the underwater volcano.

>> No.960075

>>958103
yup. A random battle occurs every x amount of steps. If you had saved after you took that step (and after fighting the battle) you would not have run into the fight upon loading.

>> No.960332

I'm very meh on the (human/mutant/god) character designs in the DS remake but love the monsters, mainly because they made different sprites for the various incarnations rather than just palette swaps. Heck, the original game didn't even have palette swaps thanks to its monochrome glory.

I'm currently doing an all-monster run and having fun with it. I like the new random chance of keeping an ability from your current monster when changing into a new one. It turns a lot of okay monsters into great ones. Honestly, this may be the only new addition to the game that I'm actually enjoying.

>> No.960802

>>960332
That skills passing sounds awesome. It looks like they did a lot of nice updates on the mechanics (even though I don't really like the graphical style or redone music as much).