/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9404248]

Did I get tricked? This is really bad.

[Anonymous No.9404260]

It's much worse than Sonic Adventure, yes. The radar system in SA2 is somehow worse and only allows you to locate one emerald shard at a time (to pad out the levels), you're forced to play as Sonic and Shadow's friends when before they had separate playthroughs, the physics were neutered hard in SA2, etc etc. If Sonic Adventure is a soli 7/10, Sonic Adventure 2 is a 4/10.
There's so much wrong with SA2, I've barely scratched the surface.

[Anonymous No.9404267]

I know who the shit players are by the radar complaints

[Anonymous No.9404274]

>>9404248
Pretty much. As a trade off for better Sanic levels you get shittier emerald hunts and shooting levels, and no over world stages, making it feel less like an adventure on the player's end. Also has better voice acting performances in exchange for shitty mixing and timing where everyone talks over each other.
>>9404260
fpvp

[Anonymous No.9404280]

>>9404267
>game good for railroading players
SA2 fags really are eternal manchildren.

[Anonymous No.9404284]

>shittier emerald hunts
Fuck off retards, the original hunt levels are shit in SA1. You don't get a better score for time or perfects for finding it without the radar since the radar is always on. The hunt levels are no different from Sonic levels in stage design which also makes them worse for hunting. They got it right in SA2, in stage design, scoring, and radar mechanics.

[Anonymous No.9404292]

>>9404280
You're the one demanding the radar be on all the time, you're the one asking to be railroaded. I'm getting perfect A ranks on the hunt levels because I'm not using the radar or hints, I'm using the brilliant stage design to find the emeralds.

[Anonymous No.9404296]

>>9404284
>You don't get a better score for time
You do, it's called finishing the level faster and getting a higher time bonus, retard.

[Anonymous No.9404297]

>>9404296
Getting 3 perfects AND a time bonus is a higher score than that, retard.

[Anonymous No.9404303]

>>9404292
>radar be on all the time so you have greater incentive to roam around your leisure
>railroading
Like I said, manchildren. You can't even articulate what being railroaded is, like a game telling you find thing first, then this second, etc. Maybe you'll get lucky chance upon one shard and get a bonus. Also lol hint boxes.

[Anonymous No.9404309]

>>9404303
I never find them in the specified order. I never use the radar. I don't even have the locations memorized, I just know how to read the stage design, there's three prominent areas for each emerald to hide in. If you had 3D spatial awareness skills you wouldn't need the radar.

[Anonymous No.9404324]

SA2 ever being good is one of the most egregious cases of nostalgiafaggotry I've seen

Its shit and has always been shit. Not even in a "le sonic in 3D doesn't work" way, Adventure 1 mogs it. Hell, fucking Heroes and Shadow are both better because at least they are focused and half-way competently put together built on speed levels without wasting your time on emerald hunts or shooter stages.

>b-b-but the soundtrack
Subjective

>b-b-but the story
It stinks and makes no sense

I can only assume SA2 was played en-masse by GC children whose impressionable small minds collectively thought it was good and then spent the rest of their lives defending it to the point it routinely gets brought up in top fives of best Sonic game ever.

Its a broken mess of a game with terrible boss battles and level design, a laughably amateurish localization where lines literally cut into one another due to poor mixing, and a story that constantly contradicts itself on top of being the starting shot for Sonic plot going into melodramatic anime bullshit

[Anonymous No.9404325]

>>9404248
True you got tricked by Segatards into playing the 30 frames version with shittier graphics, more bugs, loading times and shittier Chao garden

[Anonymous No.9404327]

>>9404309
>I never use the radar.
So you're admitting the radar is useless/shit in SA2, then? Great.

[Anonymous No.9404328]

>>9404325
Dreamcast SA2 is at 60FPS and looks great.

[Anonymous No.9404329]

>>9404309
>the game is so poorly designed that you have to not play the game in the way it was intended in order to 'enjoy' it
Such glowing praise.

[Anonymous No.9404330]

>>9404297
>MUH PERFECT
Where are you sperging about some ranking labeling bullshit? SA1 doesn't hand out asspats for scoring shit to begin with.
>getting 3 perfects
lol good luck and enjoy restarting to get a random chance for ideal "perfect" placement.

[Anonymous No.9404331]

>>9404248
Very high highs and very low lows. It's a must-play just for the fun and vibes of the first level alone

That said, people shit on Sonic all the time and usually for a good reason, so not sure what could have tricked you

>>9404260
>Sonic Adventure
That's a constant low

[Anonymous No.9404334]

>>9404327
No, because finding emeralds without the radar gives you a perfect. There's no way to keep track of score using the radar in SA1 since all emeralds are active at once. There's nothing special that happens when you find emerald #3 out of order. Ironically that's what you're complaining SA2 doesn't allow when it rewards you for it.

[Anonymous No.9404336]

>>9404328
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mspb0HEeZvQ&t=
Can't even run 1 at 60 so I doubt 2 has constant 60 FPS

[Anonymous No.9404338]

All Sonics are shit and you aren't supposed to finish either, but at least SA2B has dope first 30 minutes and final 30 minutes. Just get a 100% savegame

[Anonymous No.9404339]

>>9404330
>lol good luck and enjoy restarting to get a random chance for ideal "perfect" placement.
Treasure hunting levels are the easiest to A rank, get real now.
>>9404329
That's like saying people who've played games before and skip tutorials are shitting on the game by not using it. The mechanic isn't bad, it's a good mechanic, I'm just good at the game already.

[Anonymous No.9404340]

>>9404324
>Subjective
Not really. Escape the City and Live and Learn for example are pretty much scientifically more appealing than most 1 tracks and the city level is more interesting looking than every 1 level

[Anonymous No.9404342]

>>9404336
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2W4osYAlkE
SA1 was an early Dreamcast game and rushed as hell. It was originally planned for 60 and can be enabled on Dreamcast with a simple hex edit. The reason they locked it to 30 was the lack of time to optimize, it slows down constantly at 60. The sequel is basically 100% consistent 60fps though.

[Anonymous No.9404346]

>>9404334
>There's nothing special that happens when you find emerald #3 out of order.
Maybe BECAUSE THERE IS NO ORDER. You're expected to find them in any order you want or that's most convenient to you. Between this and your "PERFECT" labeling autism, your issues with SA1 Knuckles stages is that it's not exactly like SA2

[Anonymous No.9404352]

>>9404346
You are expected to do that in SA2 as well, they just reward you with more points for doing it. Why playing for score makes you so angry I do not understand.

[Anonymous No.9404354]

>>9404324
Lol, game is 6/10. Not shit not amazing. Core gameplay is good, Sonic/shadow stages are really good, the shooter stages do their job. The story and music are fun and popular for a reason. Visuals looked good for when it was released. Chao Garden was a good mini game. Had many flaws you laid out but you so overstate them in the name of being edgy

[Anonymous No.9404363]

>>9404336
>>9404325
What a dumbfuck retard
>claim game can't into 60 on dreamcast
>posts proof of different earlier game
https://youtu.be/FTI0CcmdkCY

>>9404342
SA1 was also breaks at 60fps, hence the declining quality in every post DC port.

[Anonymous No.9404380]

>>9404352
>You are expected to do that in SA2 as well
>radar will only light up one a time for things
>if you decide to go out of order you potentially waste time, negating time bonus because emerald spawns in spot only an autistic would think of
>in order not to waste time you surrender to the radar treating you like a child to look for things one at a time
>Hints? lmao rank down
>restart? lmao change places
Please never go into game design, games now are retardedly made as it is.

[Anonymous No.9404429]

SA2 is objectively bad and subjectively hilarious. it's more fun to play and has more memorable iconography and design than a thousand games better than it. it's a true example of a "B-game" and a perfect encapsulation of games as art.

[Anonymous No.9404431]

>>9404363
>>9404336
I don't know if you noticed but there is no framerate displayed in those videos
Dreamcast babies are the cancer of this board

[Anonymous No.9404481]

>>9404354
>more linear, less interesting, and less frequent than than 1
>really good

[Anonymous No.9404604]

>>9404248
3D Sonic games are like every 12y/o's introduction to game design. It's not a coincidence that Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are the absolute most popular games for e-celebs to talk about on youtube. Adulthood is realising that none of these games are above average and only 1/2/3/Mania have no significant compromises in design (yes I left out CD). Everyone who claims to like 3D Sonic has either nostalgia bias or a love hate relationship with the games, including all those e-celebs.

[Anonymous No.9404634]

>>9404248
Yup it sux

[Anonymous No.9404905]

>>9404248
yep
nostalgiafaggin is a hellava drug
if ya want some good sonicks, play the 2d ones (not the 32x one though)

[Anonymous No.9404923]

Hardcore Sonic fans live in a world of their own, man.
I even kind of like these games, but man, they're not good on the whole.

[Anonymous No.9405004]

>Treasure hunting stages
Did no play testers or test audience kids speak up and suggest that looking for RNG objects 1-by-1 for 20 minutes in these awful levels is the worst thing ever?

[Anonymous No.9405015]

>>9405004
The treasure hunt levels are the easiest in the game you humongous pleb.

[Anonymous No.9405018]

>>9405015
They're really boring though

[Anonymous No.9405019]

>>9405018
They take like 3 minutes.

[Anonymous No.9405027]

>>9405019
they're boring

[Anonymous No.9405037]

I WANT TO LIVE IN PUMPKIN HILL

[Anonymous No.9405042]

SA2 is a game that has enraged pretentious twits for over a decade now. Sonic in general has the same effect, but this game in particular makes them go apeshit for some reason.

Hey faggots! The game is good and will continue to be respected by the people playing it!

[Anonymous No.9405046]

>>9405042
It's not good though. It's a third good and two thirds filler at best.

[Anonymous No.9405052]

>>9405042
Kindly, sir.

[Anonymous No.9405067]

>>9404248
GET A LOAD OF THIS

[Anonymous No.9405068]

>>9404604
>Sonic 1

[Anonymous No.9405076]

>>9404431
Use your fuckin eyes hey, isn't the point of a high framerate to, idk, be fucking looked at? How do you appreciate a game running at 60fps if you don't have a fucking Digital Foundry framerate graph? Fuckin idiot cunt

[Anonymous No.9405082]

>>9404325
The DC version is 60fps and has the better graphics. Aside from the Gamecube version's visual bugs, I'm not aware of this being a buggy game in any version.

[Anonymous No.9405094]

>>9404248
he made live and learn

Live and Learn

[Anonymous No.9405108]

>>9404248
It fucking sucks and if you believe otherwise you are autistic, in denial, or otherwise enjoy eating big plates of shit.

[Anonymous No.9405116]

>>9405108
Wow bowel movement analogy I'm sure this person is well put together and worth humouring

[Anonymous No.9405134]

>>9404481
Yes 1 is a 7/10 retard

[Anonymous No.9405138]

>>9404248
Sonic was never good and if it was, it was only its 2D games

[Anonymous No.9405141]

>>9405116
Guess I'll never be as classy and sophisticated as fans of some of the worst Sonic the Hedgehog games.

[Anonymous No.9405180]

>>9404905
There's nothing wrong with enjoying Knuckles' Chaotix. It's honestly kind of a meditative and relaxing game.

[Anonymous No.9405210]

>>9404248
Sonic Adventure 2 Battle is fucking kino. Fuck you OP.

[Anonymous No.9405251]

>>9405019
post a clip of someone who isn’t a speedrunner beating Mad Space in 5 minutes or less

[Anonymous No.9405264]

>>9404324
Heroes is janky dog shit and I’ll never understand the appeal of it

[Anonymous No.9405296]

>>9404248
No, but you did get filtered.

[Anonymous No.9405425]

>>9404324
Heroes is legitimately one of the worst games I've ever played, you must really have a bug up your ass if you think that floaty, buggy piece of shit is better.

Seriously, Tails and Eggman's stages in SA2 are higher quality than Heroes, which is straight fucking awful. At least Tails and Eggman's mechs don't feel actively bad to move around.

[Anonymous No.9405457]

>>9405251
Nigga everyone did that, one of the emblems requires you to beat it in less than 4 minutes 30 seconds.

[Anonymous No.9405461]

>>9405251
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmvy-Lm1n5k

[Anonymous No.9405613]

>>9404248
You must be a special kid then. SA2 is brilliant and the chao garden is timeless.

[Anonymous No.9405639]

>>9405264
>>9405425
Heroes is arcade bullshit, but once you get a muscle memory for how broken it is, it becomes a good game

[Anonymous No.9405641]

>>9405251
Not a clip, but Mad Space genuinely is not hard.

[Anonymous No.9405662]

Yes. Sonic Adventure (both of them) only seem good by comparison to the trainwreck of the rest of the franchise. There are no good 3D Sonics, there never have been and there never will be. Sonic Adventure is a mediocre game at heart, its sequel is just bad, and the rest are unplayable. The modern Sonic fanbase copes around this in so many ways, including furry porn.

[Anonymous No.9405719]

>>9405662
Some of the later 3D games are perfectly fine (the ones that the SA fans hate). Nothing has ever particularly captured the feel of the original trilogy, apart from fan games though.

[The guy who says based No.9405854]

>>9405641
Based.

[Anonymous No.9406627]

>>9405251
I don't like the treasure hunting levels either but targeting Mad Space is cherrypicking, even people who defend the treasure hunting stages don't defend Mad Space.

What you should be asking is for a speedrunner to post any attempt of any level because they'll probably have to hit restart 8 times after 5 seconds of playing because of the dumb ordered emerald piece hunting

[The guy who says cringe No.9406631]

>>9405854
Sonic Adventure 2

[Anonymous No.9406652]

>>9406627
That post is retarded anyway. Yeah, Mad Space isn't a good level, but acting like only some autistic speedrunner could beat it in under 5 minutes when you need to beat it in under 4 minutes 30 for an emblem and in roughly 2 minutes to get an A rank (twice, once for the regular mission and once for the timed one) is just showing you don't know shit about the game. It's not only speedrunners that managed to get 180 emblems.

[Anonymous No.9406663]

>>9406652
Here's what an ACTUAL speedrun of Mad Space looks like btw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=872xjxsrs-I

[Anonymous No.9406664]

>>9404248
It's only good in the context of a 3D Sonic game. When you compare to what came after it's actually pretty damn good. However, if you compared to just any other game (hell even games that came out that year) it gets absolutely mogged. It's legacy hinges on the fact that it's unironically the best 3D Sonic ever got which is incredibly sad because the "best" isn't even close to being consistently good. Only good in small chunks.

[Anonymous No.9406668]

It's great but it could have been much better
The sonic levels and the shooting levels have undeniably better mechanics than SA1, I can hardly remember the treasure hunts from the first one. The chao garden being goated simply goes without saying
If they had just taken the time to create a hub world with neat puzzles and a sense of discovery like the first game it would have been a transcendent experience.

[Anonymous No.9406693]

I dont think I've ever enjoyed a Sonic game

[Anonymous No.9407170]

>>9404324
>Its shit and has always been shi
Says the guy with a Fresh Prince avatar

[Anonymous No.9407217]

>>9404248
The story really makes it a good game, it's a mind.blowing experience, maybe not today, but for those times to have beloved vidya characters in such epic storylines was mindblowing, I remeber how excited and shocked me, my brother and our friends were when Robotnik literally destroyed the fucking moon, or when he almost killed Sonic

[Anonymous No.9407306]

>>9404325
>>9404363
>>9404431
The best version of SA1 is Sonic Adventure original GDI (US 1.005, animated title screen) or SADX with SADX Mod Installer.

>Dreamcast
Sonic Adventure original GDI (US 1.005, animated title screen)
https://cdromance.com/dc-iso/sonic-adventure-usa/
Sonic Adventure DC-HD first release (60 FPS, widescreen, skippable cutscenes, restored objects etc.)
https://dcmods.unreliable.network/index.php/2021/08/27/sonic-adventure-dc-hd-first-release/

>Windows
Sonic Adventure DX - Director's Cut (PC, 2004)
https://archive.org/details/SonicAdventureDXPC
SADX Mod Installer (This is a tool for Sonic Adventure DX PC that installs the latest version of MainMemory’s SADX Mod Loader and its dependencies, as well as Dreamcast Conversion and several other mods, which are sorted and configured automatically!)
https://sadxmodinstaller.unreliable.network/

>List of available Sonic Adventure (+DX) builds. SA1 can barely manage 30 fps on Dreamcast and had performance issues thanks to it using its own lighting engine, which is probably a huge factor into why SA2 runs at 60.
https://dcmods.unreliable.network/index.php/2021/09/03/list-of-available-sonic-adventure-builds/

>This blog examines the differences between Dreamcast, Gamecube and PC versions of Sonic Adventure/Sonic Adventure DX, focusing on changes in the Gamecube and PC ports that can be considered downgrades from the original Dreamcast version.
https://dreamcastify.unreliable.network/index.php/category/level-specific-downgrades/

The best version of SA2 is Dreamcast version or Steam version (along with the Battle DLC which is sold separately for some reason) with mods. It's well worth it for Chao World Expanded alone.

>Dreamcast
https://cdromance.com/dc-iso/sonic-adventure-2-usa/
>SA2 PC mods
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Sonic_Adventure_2#Moddifications
>Sonic Adventure 2 Comparison: 700+ Changes from Dreamcast to Gamecube (20th Anniversary special)
https://youtu.be/3NWAbtnfy2Y

[Anonymous No.9409072]

>>9405613
Fucking this.
The chaos garden is 10 times better then in SA1 and this alone makes it a superior game to SA1.

SA1 is indeed more of an adventure but there is literally nothing more to it. SA2 has a superior story (minus the robot and amy story in first game that is better) you get to play as the bad guys then the final team up is really cool. No Bigs the cat but sadly no tails sanic gameplay too.

Superb multiplayer that is one of the best experience on GC or Dreamcast. THAT ALONE is enough to beat SA1 into a corner and shit on it. But the goddamn Chaos garden takes the cake. We are in 2022 and nothing comes closes to the Chaos garden in SA2.

[Anonymous No.9409104]

I'm not a Sega hater but I never understood why some people talk about these games as if they were 10/10 flawless masterpieces.

I played both and man it was tortuous. Both SA1 and 2 feel like betas or unfinished tech demos, these are the most unpolished games I've ever played in my life.
>Full of bugs
>very glitchable
>Sonic falls like an anvil into the void because Sega CAN'T PROGRAM WATER if they life depended on it, (this was also present in Sonic R, there's a fucking void where there's supposed to be water)
>non-existant lipsynch (b-b-but the japanese dialogue? Not my problem, it's their job to fix that, I shouldn't have to care)
>Speedrunners can spindash like crazy at the start of every level and just automatically finish them
>SA1 has these weird mouths on every character
>Sound effects and music covering "important" dialogue
>Knuckles/Rouge are annoying and boring
>Big The Cat is fucking obnoxious and his levels are also borefests that add nothing to the game
>You can die out of nowhere because Sonic decides to clip through the floor

The only saving grace of SA2 is the fucking music and that's just a couple of themes. SA1 has no reedeming qualities whatsoever.
3D SONIC WAS NEVER GOOD. Sega died for good reason and now it's making games for Nintendo (who also sucks but that's a rant for another time)

[Anonymous No.9409108]

>>9409104
>>Knuckles/Rouge are annoying and boring
I meant stages, in my anger I forgot to type stages.

[Anonymous No.9409127]

>>9409104
It's not supposed to be a beta. It's supposed to be an advanced polished next-gen game. How can you not believe that Sonic Adventure 1 had the 2nd biggest budget of any game at the time of its release?

[Anonymous No.9409134]

>>9409127
It sure doesn't reflect it. Read my list and try to debunk them.

[Anonymous No.9409138]

>>9409134
I was being sarcastic if you couldn't pick that up from the image filename.

[Anonymous No.9409141]

>>9409138
My bad, I didn't read the filename

[Anonymous No.9409556]

>>9405613
Damn, i love this game

[Anonymous No.9409563]

>>9409104
>I'm not a Sega hater but I never understood why some people talk about these games as if they were 10/10 flawless masterpieces.

Nobody does it tho

[Anonymous No.9409572]

>>9409563
>Nobody does it tho
Seriously, where are people getting this conception? Even the most diehard Sonic autists will admit the flaws of the Adventure games, it's just they were competent 3D entries that weren't total irredeemable shit like everything that came after.

[Anonymous No.9409704]

>>9404260
how the fuck is sa2 worse than sa1. The fishing mechanics in sa1 fucking suck and the only character that's fun to play is sonic.

At least in sa2 you play as shadow, who plays just like sonic.

I beat sa2, as soon as I got to bigs story in sa1 I was just fucking done.
> bu-but the radar system
Wow, one TINY flaw. I was still able to beat the 5 minute rouge stage with an s rank.

[Anonymous No.9409842]

>>9404324
Heroes is absolute dogshit. At least Adventure 2 controls well and the levels don't drag on with the same set pieces ad nauseam. I would rather play Sonic Adventure 2 with my clunky ass Dreamcast controller than Heroes on the best controller available.

[Anonymous No.9409909]

I loved this game because I played it when I was young and had fun, and also because I played it again as an adult and had fun. If that means I have shit taste, that's a blessing from God bc I can just enjoy things without filtering my personality through other peoples opinions to make sure I am "right".

Checking consensus to make sure you are being right and safe is peak beta behavior. Trained so thoroughly to comply with consensus as a mode of social survival that you do it for comfort recreationally in private... it actually makes me very sad.

[Anonymous No.9409920]

>>9404248
Sonic Adventure 2 is really 3 gameplay styles, and although I prefer some more than others, I think they're all satisfying and present a fair challenge most of the time. I really enjoyed the music and story, and for all of those reasons I think it's a pretty good game.

[Anonymous No.9410085]

>>9409909
You don't need to listen to others to know something is bad
You are just a retard with shit taste

[Anonymous No.9410157]

>>9404248
We fucking tried to tell you for two decades.
I

[Anonymous No.9410164]

>>9409072
>The best parts of the game are the extra modes and not the main game!

Great argument dipshit

[Anonymous No.9410194]

>>9404248
it's fun

[Anonymous No.9411430]

>>9409909
Man that's not a gift you just straight up have no discerning taste

[Anonymous No.9411487]

>>9404248
yes, it is bad. this holds true for several of the 3d sonic games.

[Anonymous No.9411507]

>>9409842
Heroes is Chaotix 2, not a sonic game