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929295 No.929295[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

ACTUAL FFVII SPOILERS

Just finished the game... Why did Cloud seem to recall himself killing Sephiroth in two different ways back in Nibelheim when he was in the lifestream? The second kill he recalled seemed to be especially cartoony with how he flung Sephiroth away like he was nothing.

Was Cloud ever really there at all, even as a helmeted grunt? Was he ever really even a kid in Tifa's home?

>> No.929375

Cloud was there in Nibelheim this true, thing is he was afraid of people knowing he wasn't strong enough (or unable) to get into SOLDIER like he wanted to be. He made this illusion of himself being in the place of the SOLDIER that was there, (Zach). Also, just look at the size of the sword he's carrying, though. Being able to carry that bitch around, yea I think he could throw Seph around like a bitch if he wanted to.

>> No.929453

>>929375
Then why did he claim he killed Sephiroth in two different ways back to back?

Also, when you consider how much weaker Zack was compared to Sephiroth, how he ended up getting his ass rekt by him in the top room, how the fuck would Cloud stand a chance if he wasn't even strong enough to match Zack making Soldier?

>> No.929484

>>929453
Zack was sliced open and Tifa was too. Cloud was so driven with rage he ran at Sephiroth like a loon and skewered him. Even a Soldier would suffer by getting a sword rammed through them. Sephiroth even says that Cloud is just a grunt and he's astonished by the fact he's been sucker punched by him. Cloud pretended he's Zack to cover his failings, is screwed by the guilt over what he's done before coming to terms with it and fighting for himself, instead of living Zacks dream. The end.

>> No.929502

>>929484
>Even a Soldier would suffer by getting a sword rammed through them

But apparently not Cloud, who's not even a Soldier. In fact, he just threw Sephiroth high in the sky like he's superman despite having the sword rammed in him!

And accorded to even Cloud, the first story of how he killed Sephiroth is complete bullshit if his second story is to be believed, and even in that first story he never sucker punched anyone, Sephiroth saw him before he was stabbed.

>> No.929907

>>929502
Cloud never killed Sephiroth in Nibelheim, he just assumed he was dead after the fight. Sephiroth fell into the lifestream and survived, though he was gravely injured. He travelled through the lifestream all the way to the Northern crater where he effectively went into hibernation.

>he just threw Sephiroth high in the sky like he's superman despite having the sword rammed in him

Partly anger, because he probably thought Tifa was dead, and partly because of dat mako.

>> No.929924

>>929907

Oh yeah, i almost forgot the most important thing, Cloud was part of the Jenova project, that likely gave him a fuck load of strength and power

>> No.929926

>>929484
Tifa being cut up always set wrong with me. Particularly because she should have a huge ugly scar across her chest.

>> No.929939

Can't tarnish them titties.

>> No.929942
File: 131 KB, 1260x1600, creatine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
929942

cloud was also a part of project creatine which drove him insane with semi-natty gainz.

>> No.929964

>>929453
zack was that much weaker acctually he was a solider first class and was more than cabable of wrecking shit ( crisis core)

>>929924
he was injected with jenova shit AFTER the nibelheim incident

>> No.930047

>>929964
>he was injected with jenova shit AFTER the nibelheim incident

Yeah, well the other 2 things things i said then. Cloud was angry, Mako, whatever. How he did it is not important anyway, it's not the point. It's like saying "How did Cloud survive his fall after the Air Buster fight?", or "Why didn't Cloud just use Phoenix down on Aeries?" which is always a troll question.

>> No.932290

>>929502
I think you're confused about what happened during the Nibelheim flashback earlier in the game. Just about everything Cloud related to the party was him taking Zack's place as one of two SOLDIER 1st class that came to town. Everything, up to the point where Cloud confronts Seph and the flashback ends, was really Zack (or at least as Cloud recalls it). And as we see in the real one, Zack was defeated (literally thrown out of the room) in that first fight.

The real Cloud, in a rage, came into the room and sucker-stabbed Seph with the Buster sword.

As for how Cloud was able to put up a fight against Seph a little later, remember Seph was already weakened by the stabbing. Cloud, however, was operating on pure unadulterated rage. It nearly killed him, but he managed to lift and toss Sephiroth to the side despite having a sword in his gut.

He most likely would have died right then and there if the Shin-Ra hadn't appeared.

>> No.932560

>>930047
That second one still seems legitimate to me. Has FF always maintained that being sliced, stabbed, pounded, zapped, scorched, etc. for too long leads not to death but to really needing a nap? And where exactly is that line where 'needs a nap' ends and 'actually dead' begins? I don't like FF much, so it's always been a point of interest to me. I imagine the main excuse is to push their story, but do they ever do a good job of explaining this 'death vs. permadeath' stuff?

>> No.932604

>>932560
A handful of games refer to 0 hp as wounded, not dead. Phoenix downs recover you from wounded.

>> No.932667

>>932560
It's not a FF thing.
It's an RPG thing in general. You can blame D&D and the idea of "Hit Points". To this day people still argue what HP actually represents. A sword strikes you and you lose, say, 10 HP. What is actually happening? Have you actually been wounded? Because being cut with a sword is no joke, and it'd certainly diminish your fighting ability. But in most RPGs you can keep fighting just as well (or in some cases even better) if you're 1 hit point away from losing conciousness.
Say you lose a massive chunk of your HP total. That should certainly represent that you sustained an equally massive injury. So maybe you'd lose a limb... but just sleeping for a while lets you regrow it?
Some interpretations of HP say they're actually a measure of your stamina and skill to dodge attacks (this second one would reflect why fighter classes have higher HP totals than casters). But that interpretation just doesn't go well with healing items and spells, since now they somehow replenish your "skill to dodge".

In short, you shouldn't think too hard about it and you should really just relax. It's a game system. Characters can only be really injured in story segments because the battles are just representations of what actually happens "in story".

>> No.933540

Dude read up on or play/watch the prequel story of ff7.

the psp game is actually really good. Its rather quick, and plays more like kingdom hearts than ff

>> No.933572

>yfw you realize Cloud and Tifa had sex under the airship

>> No.933584

>>933572
>while Cloud left town to join SOLDIER, Tifa was hanging out with the same three guys well into their teen years
>Tifa has probably had all three of their dicks in her by the time Cloud gets his first kiss

>> No.933607

>>933584
But shes not loose slut like that. She fucked cloud because she knew that they may not be returning from the fight in the crater and did not what to die a loveless virgin. She was saving her self for cloud

>> No.933610

>>932667
Think of it as stamina not skill to dodge. That way healing items are like drinking an energy drink or taking a nap. Your energy is restored, not some dodging ablility.

>> No.933612

>>933607
bullshit.

I remember when i was cloud.

I fucked yuffie's brains out, and then gave her some of my best materia

after we went into the creator i told her no matter what the materia is hers and that It's been a wonderful ride with her.

fucking cid kept wide eyeing me, berret looked like a beefed up bitch as usual, vincent was just down to kill something, nanaki was just chilling ready to fuck shit up as usual (even though i never really took him into battle) and fucking tifa... she just stood there, and pushed his tits out as usual.

>> No.933617

>>933612
>and pushed his tits out as usual
>his tits
Yea, what ever dude. You never fucked yuffie, at most she kissed you on the cheek at the gold saucer. And that was just a playful ruse at best. She was really just trying to get to the matteria.

>> No.933714
File: 6 KB, 236x256, le wolfenstein.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
933714

>>933607
>she was saving herself
lol

>> No.933902

>>929926
I think the Nibelheim incident really hit home of why Tifa is my favorite FF female, she really just charges into battle and is not afraid of a fight.

>>929907
Did anyone else find it really fucking gross that Sephiroth's lower half was all hair.

And Cloud could have been the Guts of Final Fantasy, god dammit Square

>> No.934015

>>933610
I covered that in my post. The "skill to dodge" thing is what explains why fighter classes have more HP than caster classes, even if they have the same Constitution/Stamina/Whatever.
I'd say FF is particulary guilty of this, considering that among other things FF1 pretty much ripped off the magic system directly from D&D

>> No.934019

>>929926
>she should have a huge ugly scar across her chest
How do you know she doesn't?

>> No.934026

>>934019
Perfect.
>Tifa has her fill of teenage boy cock before settling down with that twenty-something loser who's been crushing on her for ten years
>she has a hideous chest scar and one of her breasts is fake, so Cloud can't even enjoy having sex with her

>> No.934034

>>929926
Healing magic.

>> No.934041

>>934034
Considering Zangan's healing magic wasn't enough to keep Tifa alive without professional medical attention, I would assume he couldn't close the wound Sephiroth left either

>> No.934039

ITT: wanting to retcon cloud throwing sephiroth over like a boss like those damn gackt loving japs.

STOP IT. STOP

>> No.934051

>>934041
Scar removing magic. I don't know.

That or we accept that this is a Japanese video game and our characters have to be pretty.

>> No.934073

>>929484

Don't forget that Cloud was completely fucked by 5 years of experimentation, and actually did think that he was Zack, because he was batshit crazy.

>> No.934083

>>934026
What if Tifa doesn't actually have boobs, just huge keloid scars?

>> No.934221

>>934051
It would be kind of cool though if they actually commented on that though, scars on women can be very attractive

>>934073
It was more the Jenova cells taking his memories of Zack and Tifa and made him a "fake" psyche for him to function.

>> No.934239

>>934221
>It would be kind of cool though if they actually commented on that though, scars on women can be very attractive
Instead they had to comment on how she had to use a special bra. You win some, you lose some.

>> No.934443

>>933902
>Lower half all hair
wtf bro. Pic of this.

>> No.934456

>>934015
>somehow replenish your "skill to dodge".
That makes no sense. I read your post, and the stamina difference between monks and mages makes sense. But that last part should have been left off all together. saying skill to dodge starts making it sound weird. Just leave it at stamina. There is no stamina stat in FF so it could be a good replacement for hp

>> No.934483

>>934221
I thought it clouds doing. After the experiments he was suffering form mako poisoning. While he and Zack were on the run from the shinra army, the turks, and genesis copies, Cloud was in a borderline coma. What little bit of Zack's fighting for both of their lives really stuck with him. So after Zack died and gave Cloud the sword and Cloud became healthy enough to walk around he started to mimic Zack. Not only as a tribute to his idol/best friend but also as a coping technique. He felt like if he had been stronger like his idol he would not have been in the mess he got in. He started telling him self he is Zack. He took Zacks life and made it his own. He woke up wearing a soldier outfit not shinra infantry one he started with, to his messed up head that must mean I'm a soldier member with amnesia. I dont think Jenova cells work like that

>> No.935120

>>934483
Cloud was in a Mako coma, but his Jenova Cells did all that for him. Cloud didnt even know who Zack was until Tifa fixed him in the life stream. Jenova Cells do more than just the Reunion, Lucrecia is a good example of that

>> No.935226

>>935120
have you played crisis core? Cloud and Zack were total bros in that game. Cloud knew exactly who Zack was. It was just after the death Cloud started to act like Zack. He started to tell him self that he was Zack. The Cloud before experimentation died when Zack did.

>> No.935252

>>932560
It's called an abstraction. HP, the K.O. status and phoenix feather/down items are elements of gameplay and not story.

>> No.935346

>>935226
I'm not saying Zack and Cloud weren't friends, obviously Zack was an important person to Cloud. I'm saying Cloud's reason for being the way he was after he got to Midgar were les noble. Tifa even says Cloud didn't know things he should have. Even in Zack's home town Zack's parents asked Cloud if he knew him. Cloud couldn't answer, and if you have Tifa in the group it's obvious she does. But her reasons for not telling Cloud were because she knew Cloud was not all together, she even says "I was afraid what might happen if I told you"

>> No.935368

>>935346
Thats more or less just Cloud having amnesia due to the traumatic events and coma not jenova cells. Jenova gives you a wing, geostigma or the whore reunion thing. Lucrecia and vencient are what happens when you are not just exposed to jenova cells but full on injected at birth.

>> No.935407

>>929502
Getting stabbed with a sword a foot wide and an inch thick is a whole different world from being stabbed by a sword an inch wide and 1/4 inch thick.

>> No.935515

>>935407
Cloud was stabbed with the same sword Zack was.

>> No.935521

>>935515
Been a while, I don't recall that. I remember him being stabbed with the Masamune as Sephiroth was trying to leave the reactor.

>> No.935520 [SPOILER]  [DELETED] 
File: 17 KB, 250x250, Contanza.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
935520

>Spoilers on /vr/

>> No.935531

>>935521
Both he and Zack were stabbed by Sephiroth's sword, weren't they? Isn't that the claim, that Zack was stabbed? Because we definitely saw Cloud stabbed.

>> No.935553
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935553

>>934039
Jesus christ this, what the fuck is wrong with this thread?
>play crisis core
>Cloud throwing Sephiroth into the reactor while impaled wasn't boss as shit
>Scars in video games=general

As far as actual "semantics" about the whole event
>Tifa gets slashed by Sephiroth
>Zack battles Sephiroth and pretty much gets his ass kicked and slashed out of the room (retconned into EPIC FOR THE WIN LONG ASS BLEACH BATTLE in Crisis Core)
>Cloud shows up, sees everybody has had their ass handed to them, places Tifa aside and grabs Zack sword, goes after Sephiroth and gives him a huge sword-sucker punch through the gut with the god damn buster sword
>Give them back!
>Sephiroth is like "fuck this shit", bitch slaps Cloud, impales him
>Cloud, in a brief moment of gar, grabs the sword and uses it to fling Sephiroth into the reactor
>Gravely wounded, him and Zack are taken into the Shinra basement and dipped in Jenova cells for 5 years
>Tifa is healed by Zangan

Why Cloud no scar?

>> No.935582

>>929295
His brain got fucked up and he couldn't remember shit.

>> No.935620

>>929453
not to mention cloud was like level 7 back then. once you get to then end, you should be MUCH more experienced.

>> No.935664

>>935368
But Lucrecia qas given Jenova cells long after her birth, and Cloud never thought he was Zack, the Jenova cells took his memories of Zack and placed himself in his place so they could give him a false reality to cling onto. And the Reunion only affects weak willed people, Zack was a failure in Hojos project while Cloud was a success.

>> No.935824

>>935664
When does it say Jenova cells replace or transmit memories? I dont remember any of that. Zack and Cloud were both considered failures by Hojo. Zack because the experiments had no effects, and Cloud because he was borderline dead from them. In all reality Cloud was a success, but only because Zack had saved him. Lucrecia had no real effects from the Jenova cells. She was given future visions of Sephiroth and that's it. Oh and the fact that she never truly died, she just encased in a crystal. The cannon story is, "Lucrecia became romantically involved with Hojo and eventually married him. During this time, she became pregnant and agreed to use their unborn child as a test subject. Hojo injected both the pregnant Lucrecia and her fetus with Jenova cells"

>> No.937267

>>935824
That whole story gave me FEELS. Especially when you talk to Lucrecia and she talks about how she never once got to hold Sephiroth, she's a failure of a mother, and she wants to die but can't.

>> No.937297

FF7's story is confusing as hell.

>> No.937339

>>937297
>FF7's story is confusing as hell.

No, it's pretty straight forward. I was confused by it at the time because I was like 15. On a recent replay I understood it all

>> No.937818

>>937267
I know, that and the fact that she saw visions of all the shit her child was going to become is just too fucked up. If you dont get a bad case of the feels from that scene you are not human.
Just the fact that she wants to die and she cant because of the crystal around her is pushing my feel buttons like crazy

>> No.939143

>>937339
A completely agree, I didn't pay much attention to the storyline when I was younger and didn't get the little I did pay attention too but I played it this past year and it's a lot easier and simpler than I remember