/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9240285]

Which one explored the concept of going back in time to save the world better?

[Anonymous No.9240287]

ct no contest

[Anonymous No.9240298]

I like Chrono Trigger more overall, but Majora's Mask is built entirely around the passage of time and plays around with it in creative ways that fundamentally change how you proceed through the game. CT mostly just uses "time" as an excuse to give you a diverse set of environments.

[Anonymous No.9240301]

>>9240298
Yeah CT doesn't really 'explore the concept'

[Anonymous No.9240306]

>>9240301
noo but it's an existentialist masterpiece

[Anonymous No.9240363]

>>9240306
It isn’t.

[Anonymous No.9240517]

Majora's Mask

CT isn't even a good game lmao

[Anonymous No.9240579]

>>9240285
Depends if you're talking about time periods or a groundhogs-day loop. Totally different approaches.

[Anonymous No.9240587]

>>9240285
>the concept of going back in time to save the world
I prefer the "going back in time to save myself" concept

[Anonymous No.9240626]

>>9240517

[Anonymous No.9240647]

>>9240285
Both are great for different reasons but they're not really comparable. It's like asking whether Wind Waker or Silent Hunter explored the concept of travelling at sea better.

>>9240298
You are being too harsh on Chrono Trigger. The main plot cannot happen without the party going to the destroyed future and resolving to change it and plenty of things change as you do things in the past. From the Mystics starting to venerate Ozzie instead of Magus, to the creation of a giant forest in place of a desert and many other things in between.

[Anonymous No.9240802]

>>9240647
Chrono Trigger's time concept mostly just exists as a plot. You travel back and fourth between different areas representing different time periods, and there's a few times in the game where you trigger flags that causes events in other time periods that the game actually explains as you changing the past.

Majora's Mask on the other hand has time built into its DNA, and revovles heavily around the groundhog day concept and all the npcs living out a scripted 3 day period that may get altered based on flags getting triggered.

[Anonymous No.9240813]

>>9240802
Both have time built into their DNA. You cannot remove time travel as a concept without gutting either game. They just use it in very different ways, which is why they are not comparable at all.

[Anonymous No.9240973]

>>9240813
You can absolutely rewrite Chrono Trigger's plot to make the different time periods into different islands. There's very few times the concept of time actually influences the gameplay in any meaningful way.

[Anonymous No.9241009]

>>9240285
Different types of time travel stories. Chrono Trigger is about exploring distant eras in the past and future, Majora's Mask is a short time loop. Technically OoT was time travel too.

[Anonymous No.9241010]

>>9240285

[Anonymous No.9241030]

>>9240973
Have you even played Chrono Trigger? You go to the past and Marle accidentally gets erased. You go to the future and see that the world is dead. You then go to the past to save the world from going dead, and ever more distant past, learning the truth about what happened that causes the world to die in the future. None of that can work if it's just a trip in different islands. The entire plot and most of the side quests are based entirely on time travel. Take time travel out of Chrono Trigger and you make a completely different game.

[Anonymous No.9241167]

>>9241030
Nigga all those things you mention are tiny plot points that could easily be changed into different plot points. Yeah no shit the game would have a different plot if you rewrite the plot, but there's very few points in the game the time travel shit influences anything beyond the plot itself.

[Anonymous No.9241205]

>>9241167
Tiny plot points? Nigga, these are not tiny plot points, they're the entire plot of the game. Are you one of those "the plot doesn't matter" fags? Do you think Chrono Trigger would be remotely as good if it was a disjointed adventure through medieval island, present island, dead future island, prehistoric island and magical ice age island?

[Anonymous No.9241210]

>>9241010
This is a comparison between good games, get that shit outta here you wanker.

[Anonymous No.9241447]

>>9240973
>There's very few times the concept of time actually influences the gameplay in any meaningful way.
This is somewhat true.
>You can absolutely rewrite Chrono Trigger's plot to make the different time periods into different islands.
You couldn't tell the same story. The game involves the player/character personally witnessing the ruined future of 2100 AD, the arrival of Lavos in 65 million BC, and the kingdom of Zeal and its destruction in 12,000 BC. These are sequential events and even if you shifted the time scales by thousands of years, they still have to happen in the right order and the player still has to witness them personally or else it's not the same. The entire goal of the game is to stop Lavos before the "Day of Lavos" in 1999 to save the future. Without the time concept, there would be no way to replace the post-apocalyptic 2100AD with a healthy and successful 2100AD. The story's stakes would not make sense. This would require much more than some simple plot-fixing.

The only optional part in the big picture is really 600AD and that's where most of the small/fun ways to "change the future by changing the past" can be found.

[Anonymous No.9242792]

>>9241010
based

[Anonymous No.9242795]

Majora Mask, in chrono trigger it's just a plot device

[Anonymous No.9242820]

>>9240285
Final Fantasy I

[Anonymous No.9243939]

Trigger's time travel is so poorly handled and rigid that it could entirely be replaced, with little rewriting, by changing it to visiting continents with different levels of advancements.

[Anonymous No.9243942]

>>9240285
The craziest thing about majora is you dont even know the world is fucked at first.
Tatl never says "oh my goooood the moon is gonna kill us", you see the timer and the moon (probably through the observatory for your first time) and have to piece it together yourself.
Tatl only starts literally screaming for help at the very end, and the moons movements aren't obvious until the third day.
Then you repeat this process dozens of times.

[Anonymous No.9243957]

>>9243939
Read >>9241030 and >>9241205 and stop being retarded.

[Anonymous No.9243961]

Majoras Mask and it isn't even close. And this comes from someone who loves CT.

Majoras Mask gives you a lot more agency and actually integrates the passage of time into its three-day cycle, with NPCs and events happening and changing depending on your actions. Meanwhile CTs approach to time travel is incredibly rigid to the point you aren't really "time traveling" as much as you are exploring different world maps.

MM actually makes the player feel like a time traveler, while CT simply uses it as a plot device.

[Anonymous No.9243973]

[Anonymous No.9244000]

>>9243957
Fuck off, retard. The plot is so fucking poorly written that time travel consequences only apply when it's convenient for the plot, some crap makes literally zero sense like bothering to help in the future, Robo and Doan somehow existing despite the future being overwritten, Ayla's descendants being around despite her leaving the past, etc, etc. The plot would be literally infinitely better if it was just "oh no some interconnected monsters inhabiting each past/current/future continent are on the move to destroy everyone"

[Anonymous No.9244767]

>>9244000
lmao. Room temperature iq take right there.

[Anonymous No.9244875]

>>9244767
Cry some more, these are undeniable and irrefutable facts.

[Anonymous No.9244887]

>>9244767
Not the one you're replying to, but he makes a really damn good point. Time Travel in stories rarely works out well, and as good as CT is for it's time as an RPG and with its story, it just didn't do the whole time travel thing very well, even though that's what the whole thing is supposed to be based around.
Go play Dragon Quest 7 to find out how time travel is done right in an RPG, that is some damn good stuff if you don't mind a 100+ hour game.
Stay away from Final Fantasy 8.

[Mr.SKC No.9245281]

>>9240587
I see, you are a gentleman and a scholar!

It saddens me to see this gem being basically forgotten

[Anonymous No.9245302]

>>9241010
R=U. I have no idea how this is even in question lmao.

[Anonymous No.9245313]

>>9240285
Chrono Trigger wasn't even about going back in time to save the world. It was about time-travelling to figure out what was happening and then going to the end of time to kill an alien.

[Anonymous No.9245335]

>>9240285
Oracle of Ages

[Anonymous No.9245376]

>>9244887
>but he makes a really damn good point
No he doesn't, and the examples he supposedly cites to show how time travel doesn't matter in Chrono Trigger are completely inane.. Time travel is integral to the game's story, as that anon explained in >>9241030 and >>9241205 and whose points were never really addressed. If you take time travel out of Chrono Trigger you're left with pretty much nothing. It would be possible to rewrite the entire plot and have a game with Chrono Trigger's gameplay that is not about time travel, but that would be a completely different game.

I mean, as a couple random examples that weren't mentioned already, just try to rework the story of Magus, Schala and Zeal without getting time travel involved. Or, say, the side quest that has you turn a desert into a large, vibrant forest. You just can't.

[Anonymous No.9245492]

>>9245376
>just try to rework the story of Magus, Schala and Zeal without getting time travel involved
Exactly what parts of that absolutely requires time travel? Magus could've easily just been sent to a different continent.

[Anonymous No.9245496]

>>9245492
The part where you defeat him and he is sent back home before the disaster that destroyed it and uses his future knowledge to pose as a prophet and get another shot at killing Lavos, only to watch it all happen again right in front of his eyes? Anon was right, you really haven't played the game, have you?

Or just think for a moment anon. If Magus had just lost his home and his sister and got sent to a different continent as a kid with no time travel involved then you'd never even get to see the kingdom of Zeal or meet Schala. It would have all been gone decades ago!

[Anonymous No.9245503]

>>9245496
That was my first post in the thread you autist. You're really hung up on incredibly minor details of the story that could've easily been changed to different details that had nothing to do with time travel.

[Anonymous No.9245540]

>>9245503
>You're really hung up on incredibly minor details of the story
>>9241205
>Tiny plot points? Nigga, these are not tiny plot points, they're the entire plot of the game.
Take out these plot points and all you're left with is "party of teenagers saves the world from a monster" which is unbelievably generic.

Let's hear it from you anon: Rewrite Chrono Trigger's story, the entire story, to take out time travel without mangling the characters and rendering it a completely unrecognizable mess. Go on if it's so easy. I challenge you. Put up or shut up.

[Anonymous No.9245782]

>>9245503
Nah he's right. And nobody has even responded to the post I made about this, here:>>9241447, that goes directly to assessing most important and fundamental story elements in the game. Nitpicks are what the triple-zero IQ poster here does (>>9244000), since nitpicking problems in a time travel story is always stupid because time travel isn't real so authors will always be something that doesn't quite make sense.

>The player/character personally witnesses the ruined future of 2100 AD.
>Witnesses the arrival of Lavos in 65 million BC.
>Witnesses the events of Zeal and its destruction in 12,000 BC.

The player has an adventure in each one of those locations. Each of those locations is tied to the core story being told (not just the specific plot details). You can't replace those settings with "themed islands" without totally changing the story.

And that's before even getting into the many time-links between 600AD and 1000AD and the Magus/Scala storyline. Most of the side content has some kind of time-travel relevance. Some elements could be trivially replaced (like obtaining tools from 1000AD to bring to 600AD) but others aren't (reading the message on Toma's grave, re-charging the moon stone, etc). Those bits aren't just plot points, they reflect the nature of the game world and how different parts of it relate to each other.

[Anonymous No.9246628]

>>9245503
how exactly is travelling to the point where crono died and replacing his body with a clone a "minor detail"? like imo majora does it better but this ain't partners in time rules where the time travel literally does not matter outside of having younger characters and only one younger character really matters to the plot at the very end

[Anonymous No.9246657]

>>9245302
R =/= U, only brainlets think otherwise

[Anonymous No.9246863]

Day of the Tentacle

[Anonymous No.9246950]

>>9240647
Yeah but time travel doesn't affect how you play the game though, whereas in Majora's mask, it's built into the gameplay.

[Anonymous No.9247150]

[Anonymous No.9247157]

Soul Reaver 2.

[Anonymous No.9247159]

>>9247150

[Anonymous No.9247662]

>>9240647
I don't think he's being harsh on Chrono Trigger, it's a good game. But while time travel is important to the story, in practice it doesn't do much to effect the actual gameplay outside of some sidequests. With Majora's Mask, the time travel mechanic is very much tied to the gameplay and is something you always have to keep in mind while playing

[Anonymous No.9247703]

>>9240973
>You can absolutely rewrite Chrono Trigger's plot to make the different time periods into different islands.

Yeah so I left Robo on Middle Island and then Present Island suddenly got a forest inside, wtf is up with that.

[Anonymous No.9247706]

>>9247703
magic!

[Anonymous No.9247849]

>>9247703
>irrelevant sidequest
>plot

[Anonymous No.9247886]

>>9240285
The art style of both of these games is so ugly.

[Anonymous No.9247963]

>>9241167
>I have nothing to say and yet I must speak

[Anonymous No.9247973]

>>9243942
You’re sorta right, assuming no prior knowledge, but I think everyone goes in knowing MM is the game where the moon falls. I think it was even shown in the commercials.

[Anonymous No.9248119]

>>9247973
>I think it was even shown in the commercials.
I remember the commercials. It was. "You have 72 hours to save the world" was the tagline.

[Anonymous No.9250145]

>>9247849
You have ignored every post that brings up the main quest. You lose.

[Anonymous No.9250650]

>>9240285
CT

[Anonymous No.9250652]

>>9240285
Majora's Mask is overrated. Chrono Trigger is always properly highly regarded as the great game it is. Majora's Mask always felt like what it was to me. An extra side adventure or side course for the N64. A nice little bonus perhaps worth playing but nothing more than that. I will never get how some think its the best TLOZ game ever.

[Anonymous No.9250776]

>>9240587
This is truly underrated

[Anonymous No.9250909]

>>9250776
It really isn't.
It is a neat little game.

[Anonymous No.9250950]

People feel like they need to take a maximized position on this. Of course time travel is an indispensable part of CT’s plot. One of its principal innovations, having many different endings, makes use of the non-linear plot progression provided by time travel.

Majora’s Mask is basically the same way, but wins overall because it has the Bomber’s Notebook. No game has made better use of time travel than the Bomber’s Notebook, or even attempted it, amazingly.