/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9192251]

ITT We discuss /vr/ that convey their stories through gameplay, atmosphere etc.

The setting of Final Fantasy I has this ethereal quality that I really liked. At first glance it's a generic fantasy world built out of familiar D&D tropes but if you look at the plot (and use your childhood/autistic imagination to fill in the blanks), the setting develops this subtle post-apocalyptic character as the game progresses.

Let's start from the top. Corneria is a bog standard fantasy kingdom, ruled by a king. Stable, safe, with soldiers at the gates to keep monsters and bandits out. The worst problem facing them is that their princess was kidnapped, and although the bridge to the rest of the continent has been destroyed, nobody seems to mind.

Pravoka is a lawless sleazy port town that has been taken over by pirates, with no government to restore order. Why hasn't anyone tried to oust the pirates so the citizens can live in peace? Why hasn't the King of Corneria intervened? Then there's Elfheim - itself hidden deep in the forest, which I'll touch on later - which has the ongoing crisis with Astos attempting to seize power from the prince - Astos himself being based out of the ruins of what was once another human kingdom before it was destroyed and left to rot.

Melmond is facing a famine/dust bowl and half the town is in ruins - if it wasn't for the Light Warriors the inhabitants would starve to death if the monsters don't finish them off first. Again, where is the King and his men? Some sort of force to protect the people? They're probably in the graves you see scattered throughout Melmond.

It makes you wonder why nobody had repaired the bridge before the Light Warriors arrived: Maybe Corneria - so far depicted as the last functional kingdom in the world - had decided that the world was in such awful shape that the only way for their people to survive was to close themselves off the from the outside world as it crumbled.

[Anonymous No.9192254]

>>9192251
We're almost halfway through the game at this point and so far we went from:
>Functional generic high fantasy kingdom
>Lawless hellhole
>Town/civilization actively being threatened by evil forces*
>Destroyed kingdom (the Western Keep)
>Comfy dwarves*
>Town that is in the process of being destroyed

Before we get to Crescent Lake, every single town/area was in worse shape than the one before, with Corneria being the only full-fledged kingdom whose general population isn't facing some sort of crisis. Final Fantasy I has so far depicted a world where civilization is collapsing, with the most settlements being besieged in some way, and traditional high fantasy kingdoms being the exception instead of the rule. Chaos and the Four Fiends are destroying the world, and so far they're doing a pretty good job. Considering the absolute state of each town we see, what will we see next?

Crescent lake is a nice change of pace. This town was peaceful before the events of the game, but now faces mortal danger because of Kary's reawakening/Mount Gulg erupting. Should note that like Elfheim it's also rather remote, being far away from the nearest port, surrounded by a lake and mountains.

We beat Kary and get the airship - a mind blowing plot twist for a 1990 fantasy game - and can now explore the two northern continents, which is when you can really start to feel the whole "post apocalyptic/dark age" setting sink in. Despite being just as large as the Southern continent, the two Northern continents are practically depopulated - having only three settlements between them and zero ports. Eerie, considering that Onrak used to be a thriving maritime kingdom.

*Dwarves and Elves (as well as dragons and mermaids) have been traditionally depicted as being insular and isolating themselves from mainstream human society, as they are depicted as being in FFI (Elves deep in the forest, Dwarves in the mountain, dragons in their island caves).

[Anonymous No.9192258]

>>9192254
What was happening to Melmond and Crescent Lake already happened in the North 200 and 1000 years ago respectively. While most of the settlements in the Southern continent are in danger, all settlements in the north are the isolated remnants of societies that have already been annihilated. It makes you think, how many "Western keeps" have been lost to the deserts and forests of the northern continents?

Onrak is, like Crescent Lake, doing sort of okay, but the citizens still mention that they're the dying remnant of a greater civilization that was destroyed by Kraken 200 years ago, and the last mermaids are facing extinction. Gaia is so remote that it's impossible to reach without technology that's been lost for 1000 years, and Lufenia is the last speck of an advanced civilization, implied to be just as remote if not more so that Gaia, since you can't talk to them until you rediscover a lost language.

You get the warp cube from a literal robot - again a pretty big plot twist back then - and then enter the Sky Castle, depicted as a literal space station complete with killer robots. I could sense some pretty strong Naussica/castle in the sky influence, it's an absolute shame that the later releases depicted the sky castle as a literal castle instead of a space station. Anyway we all know what happens in the game after that, but at that point the worldbuilding is complete: Final Fantasy I isn't depicting a world where civilization is collapsing - it's depicting a world where civilization has ALREADY collapsed, with the few remaining human (and non-hostile fantasy creature) settlements being almost entirely remote outposts, with those that aren't hidden deep in mountains or forests being besieged in some way. This is the Four Fiends' world, and humanity is on its' way out, despite the futile efforts of a few small settlements barely clinging to life.

[Anonymous No.9192303]

>>9192251
this is literally the only JRPG I can stomach playing. great world building, great music, fast gameplay, fantastic atmosphere and graphics (at least on Origins version). no idea how anybody can sit through hours of dialogue cringe and lengthy battle animations in more modern games. for me this is as good as it gets.

[Anonymous No.9192374]

I love this autism OP, do another one.

[Anonymous No.9192381]

>>9192251
It felt like a massive world for an NES game, I'm a zoomer and I loved FF1.

[Anonymous No.9192594]

Can we get more of this OP

[Anonymous No.9192606]

not only story, but the game trains you silently too

[Anonymous No.9192643]

Interesting take OP, definitely made me want to replay FFI. I'd just like to add, as you've pointed out for the airship and warp cube, that the Sky Castle itself also felt like a huge twist for the time. Going into space for the final dungeon really expands the world massively and feels like an epic coda for such an 8 bit game. And yes, I like the depiction of a space station better too.
There's definitely something about 80s RPGs, the sparseness and stockness of their setting, that gives them a kind of hostile, truly otherworldly atmosphere. FFI is no exception.

[Anonymous No.9192648]

Those damn Lufenians...

[Anonymous No.9193348]

>>9192254
>a mind blowing plot twist for a 1990 fantasy game

1987

You make a good with the northern continents, and it at least explains why the only way to reach it is by airship.

There is no port in the upper continent, meaning no contact between the south and north part of the worlds. As far as the south is concerned, the south *is* the world.

[Anonymous No.9193709]

>>9192251
>>9192254
>>9192258
kino

[Anonymous No.9193732]

also I'd love to see your take on FF2. Personally I love how the game treats the fantasy elements as a backdrop, the main focus of the story (up until the end game at least) is a war between two human factions, and magic is just a tool they use for war.

[Anonymous No.9194119]

>>9192606
Explain.

[Anonymous No.9194158]

>>9192251
>>9192254
>>9192258
I like it. I've always wanted a proper reimagining of FF1, but wouldn't want modern SquareEnix's take on it. They would just give us another bishi ff trope romp, whereas you are really digging into what's interesting and unique about the world and setting. Top tier post, anon.

[Anonymous No.9194203]

>>9192303
You should try Dragon Quest then.

[Anonymous No.9194241]

>>9192251
One thing to keep in mind is that the game doesn’t convey correctly distance between territories. Probably the king of Cornelia doesn’t give a damn about the bridge (which is only repair for the warriors of light) because there is no point trying to send your army miles and miles away from your own kingdom.

The world is, as you describe, decomposed. I’d like to imagine it is in a similar state post Roman Empire, with each territory getting fragmented more and more as time goes on.

The wise men can see the world is in crisis, but they can’t do absolutely nothing. The monsters that dwell in the forest and roads are way too powerful for your average medieval army. The characters are just four, they can move without being noticed except for the occasional encounter. Even then, their are the warriors of light, they know how to use magic and can outsmart their foes.

Another thing to keep in mind is that FF draws a lot from Nausicaä, whose world is, as you said, a post apocalyptic one.

[Anonymous No.9194323]

>>9194241
>black & red mages first in the party

Now that's having balls

Man this game looks gorgeous, although I'd have put a little less green and more varied locations in the collage.

There are two things that piss me off in FF1, one that goddamn rainbow effect every time you open up the menu. Goddamn fuck that ugly psychosis enducing shit. Secondly, the music that constantly stops and restarts from scratch, can't really be helped with random encounters, but imo the inventory menu had no business switching to the main theme, they should just let whatever music currently playing keep playing

Then there are those 2 giant bars that break the encounter screen in two, with the monsters on one side and the party on the other, that's ugly and unnecessary

I actually wanted to do a romhack to fix all that, I started looking up the battle background graphics but the setup felt backwards to me. IIRC it was like, have a list of tiles, and tell where those tiles go; rather than a list of coordinates and telling which tiles goes in which coordinate which is how most games I've seen would have done it.

Also being able to tell what's in a chest when your inventory is full, without having to discard anything, would be a nice plus.

[Anonymous No.9194341]

How did you feel about Dissidia's expansion on the FF1 lore?

[Anonymous No.9194385]

Final fantasy would have been good if not for all the feminist and woke bullshit. I'm really supposed to pretend the princess was "kidnapped" and didn't run off with the first big dick she could ride on? I'm not that naive, I don't give belle Delphine that much money. Fucking cucked bullshit even back then

[Anonymous No.9194391]

>>9194341
Not OP but making the Warrior of Light a manikin and making it ambiguous if he even has a party was a mistake.
Should've just made him amnesiac and generally ambiguous like Onion Knight.

[Anonymous No.9194412]

>>9194391
Should have made the Warrior of Light character the whole party and all the classes, who switches off between attacks

Closest thing I can think of is Noob-Smoke from Mortal Kombat Deception

[Anonymous No.9194427]

>>9194412
Would've been unique, although I suppose they didn't want to have to make all those models for one character (at least, until Yuna in 012)

[Anonymous No.9194436]

>>9194427
Make them all SD models instead

[Anonymous No.9194493]

>>9192648
It is not a mercy to forget!

[Anonymous No.9194509]

Doesn't some of the sci-fi influence also come from early Dungeons and Dragons? I'm not a tabletop guy but I remember reading about a straight up Phantasy Star adventure in one of the first editions where the king sends you to investigate a cave full of monsters that turns out to be an ancient spaceship with robots and stuff going haywire.

[Anonymous No.9194528]

>>9194509
The injection of sci fi/"ancient technological civilization" into a fantasy RPG environment was always a distinctly Japanese thing. D&D grew out of tabletop wargaming and played things very straight (until much later in the evolution of roleplaying with campaigns like Shadowrun and Spelljammer)

[Anonymous No.9194572]

>>9194528
>Shadowrun and Spelljammer
don't forget sharkjumper

[Anonymous No.9194653]

>>9194528
>The injection of sci fi/"ancient technological civilization" into a fantasy RPG environment was always a distinctly Japanese thing.
It actually comes from Wizardy 1.

[Anonymous No.9194872]

>>9194528
>The injection of sci fi/"ancient technological civilization" into a fantasy RPG environment was always a distinctly Japanese thing
What is Might and Magic, Ultima, and Wizardry

[Anonymous No.9195250]

>>9194158
>I like it. I've always wanted a proper reimagining of FF1, but wouldn't want modern SquareEnix's take on it.
they actually just did that haha

[Anonymous No.9195554]

>>9195250
they've rereleased the game like 20 times

[Anonymous No.9195737]

>>9194158
I want a prequel to FF1 set during the fall of Lufenian civilization.

[Anonymous No.9195768]

>>9194412
I like the idea of all six characters being "the party" while also maintaining that there are only four heroes. And then let the six deal with the implications of that particular shrodinger's cat.

[Anonymous No.9195778]

I'm a FF5 fan, the classic FF1 is always on my list, but the first few battles without the "auto aim" always puts me off. Let's hope in my next attempt I stick to it

But expanding the thread, I gotta say how the interconnected lore of Breath of Fire always comes back to my mind

The way it goes from bronze age with full racial features, to medieval with toned down features, and then there's 4 and 5 where it can be in the far past, future or alternate reality altogether

And last month I finally saw Romero's Night of the Living Dead, a clear reference right on the first game. It was always on my list BECAUSE of the reference, and I'm thankful for the chad devs because they did it

[Anonymous No.9195796]

>>9194203
I've been meaning to give DQ a proper chance but I was soured by DQ7 as a kid. loved the atmosphere but it was so confusing and weird that I spent 20+ hours on it and never made it out of the tutorial area, eventually gave up, don't even remember what became of my copy. I'd probably do a lot better now but if the rest of the series is as wordy and padded out with story shit I don't think I'd be able to stomach it for long. DQ 1 looks good but my only objection there is the focus on a single hero instead of having a party which is the main draw of RPGs for me. what am I missing?

[Anonymous No.9195901]

>>9195796
Each DQ has its perks (or disadvantages, however you want to see them) and that makes them unique. You were unlucky by starting with VII because it takes its time to pick up its pace, but you should give the ones from 4th and 5th generation a chance, playing the originals or picking up remakes if you need the visual upgrade. III lets you make your custom party through classes and IV to VI are more character-driven, but they don't throw walls of text at you.

[Anonymous No.9195938]

>>9192251
Recently finished FF1 for the first time.
Pretty kino game. Should i play FF2 next?

[Anonymous No.9195949]

>>9195938
Yes. Dont believe the memes.

[Anonymous No.9195971]

>>9194528
I can't vouch for gaming, but it is certainly common in books. Science-fiction and fantasy weren't even distinct genres originally.

[Anonymous No.9196921]

>>9194203
Dragon quest is the NPC's jarpig.

[Anonymous No.9197149]

>>9192251
Really good post, OP. This describes why ff1, despite being a bug-ridden mess, has a feeling of greatness and soul. Instead of dumping a bunch of plot and filler on you, it provides you an outline of what's going on, and lets you use your imagination to fill in the blanks, and to great effect.
iirc the NPC's in Gaia are surprised you even got there, am I remembering right?

Another favorite game of mine is Faxanadu, which also has great atmosphere/aesthetics/worldbuilding, and depicts a collapsing world.

>>9192303
indeed. adding on, the monster sprites are really well done, and despite the progression of the game, it still feels like an open world to explore.

>>9194241
>One thing to keep in mind is that the game doesn’t convey correctly distance between territories.
yes, with alot of games there's a sense of artistic license, in that the world depicted is not really limited to what you see on screen. The ff1 map conveys a vast area with oceans and continents.

>>9195778
that pic really gets across how spooky Melmond is, and its steep decline.

>>9195971
sci-fi & fantasy are essentially the same genre, except where one uses magic, the other uses technology.

also, wasn't there some game that depicted the ff1 world after it was completely destroyed, as a what-if timeline? can't quite remember

[Anonymous No.9197260]

>>9197149
>wasn't there some game that depicted the ff1 world after it was completely destroyed, as a what-if timeline? can't quite remember
Dissidia Duodecim has the main overworld be World B: A destroyed version of FFI's world. It's never really explained what happened there other than Garland thinking that he was in the past before running into Cid, Cosmos and Chaos.

[Anonymous No.9197284]

I like how the first fighting area in Bushido Blade sells its setting. The idea is it's samurai and ninja and such persist into the modern day as secret societies. At a glance the opening area looks like old-timey with the snow on the ground and two samurai facing each other. But you can see the modern chain fence in the background; the concrete supports of a bridge, with some graffiti; and you can hear cars going by above. It immediately communicates that this is something going on just outside the view of modern everyday life. It's simple but I really like it.

[Anonymous No.9198850]

>>9197260
that's the one, thanks.

to clarify on what I said,
>Instead of dumping a bunch of plot and filler on you,
plot is fine if it's kept within reason, like in ff1. I was thinking of those games that pile on melodrama & exposition.

also, I don't mean to dickride the OP, but that write-up is worthy of a screencap desu

[Anonymous No.9199207]

>>9194528
This post is so wrong it hurts me. Conan the Barbarian saved an alien way back in the days of Howard, Elric of Melnibone went time travelling, and...

>>9194509
...Expedition to the Barrier Peaks is what you're thinking of. (Also, good taste)

Sci-Fi crossing the streams with fantasy has been a thing forever.

[Anonymous No.9199215]

>>9194509
I dug this up just for you, anon.
DPPHD

[Anonymous No.9199227]

>>9192303
>for me this is as good as it gets.
Until Final Fantasy Tactics

[Anonymous No.9199235]

>>9192381
>It felt like a massive world for an NES game
It was a massive world. The sandbox world was unheard of. Finsl Fantady was a game where you could go anywhere -- on top of the ocean, along the bottom of the sea in a submarine, across the air in an airship, to the fricking moon itself, and look out the port windows onto the planet itself. It was a gamechanger. You didn't have to complete quests in order, if you could get there, you could do it. It made the world feel huge, and full of possibility. It's why the mapping in FFX caused a backlash. The removal of the sandbox was blasphemy, even if the storyline itself was magnificent.

[Anonymous No.9199240]

>>9192643
>And yes, I like the depiction of a space station better too.
Whose bright idea was it to remove the station? The original space station was aesthetically pleasing, and brought balance to the concept of the age of the world by introducing ancient astronauts. It also raised questions about the Fiends and Chaos themselves.

[Anonymous No.9199262]

>>9194528
>The injection of sci fi/"ancient technological civilization" into a fantasy RPG environment was always a distinctly Japanese thing.
Don't be a weeaboo. You have an entire catalogue of 1880s to 1930s Western science fiction/fantasy to discover and enjoy, friend. Ancient astronauts is older than radio.

[Anonymous No.9199267]

>>9195768
>I like the idea of all six characters being "the party" while also maintaining that there are only four heroes. And then let the six deal with the implications of that particular shrodinger's cat.
Multi-class, and sometimes people switch out like miners, 6 weeks on 2 weeks off.

[Anonymous No.9199287]

>>9199215
This chart is funny, but is also a really, really good overview of what happens when knowledge is lost.

[Anonymous No.9199305]

my first try at screencapping desu

[Anonymous No.9199692]

>>9194158
>>9195554
Hope you like nioh anon

[Anonymous No.9200017]

>>9194872
Ultima series had space shuttles because Garriot's dad was an astronaut and the first two games were directionless crap that took place in the "real world". Starting with three it was a full fantasy environment and there was no high technology beyond Exodus being some kind of vaguely described "demon machine".

[Anonymous No.9200020]

>>9199207
>Conan the Barbarian saved an alien way back in the days of Howard
Not Dungeons and Dragons. Not computer roleplaying.

>Elric of Melnibone went time travelling,
Not Dungeons and Dragons. Not computer roleplaying

You are the one who's "so wrong it hurts".

[Anonymous No.9200147]

>>9200020
You’ve been proven wrong already, move on anon, it is wise to admit defeat.

[Anonymous No.9200312]

FFVII despite being narrative-driven has a lot of great scenery-based storytelling
Memorable example would be when you're in the wilderness going up an idyllic hill only to come across a giant polluting industrial reactor on the other side. Furthers one of the messages of the game's plot

[Anonymous No.9200345]

>>9200017
You literally beat Exodus with programming cards. Also, "The first three games don't count because I said so" is the weakest shit. You could just say "They veered away from that and went full fantasy" and be correct instead of trying to double down on being wrong.

[Anonymous No.9201348]

>>9199692
I'm confused. What does Nioh have to do with FF1?

[Anonymous No.9201883]

>>9199305
>>9192251
did it again, neater this time