This is what peak Doom Mods look like

[Anonymous No.9179263]

You may not like it, but this is peak performance.

[Anonymous No.9179313]

Was this the original "boomer shooter", meaning a new game but inspired/styled after the old ones?

[Anonymous No.9179314]

doom is boring

[Anonymous No.9179319]

>>9179314
But this is BROOTAL Doom, the best and most exciting Zoomer doom.

[Anonymous No.9179356]

Correct

[Anonymous No.9179361]

>>9179356
>>9179263
this is so dumb

[Anonymous No.9179363]

>>9179361
You enjoy this

[Anonymous No.9179373]

>>9179313
>Was this the original "boomer shooter", meaning a new game but inspired/styled after the old ones?
It’s not a new game, it’s the same Doom games but differently balanced.

[Anonymous No.9179412]

>>9179263
Absolutely. It is now impossible to imagine a game without Brutal Doom.

[Anonymous No.9179449]

>>9179356
this is brutal doom? looks pretty cool, why do people hate it?

[Anonymous No.9179468]

>>9179449
The year after Brutal Doom got a cacoward and Romero publicly praised it, other modders organized personal armies of Reddit and Discord to harass him usinh transphobic and racist comments and the mod became a no-no

[Anonymous No.9179491]

>>9179449
“Popular = bad” for most of the easily dismissed ones, but becoming so popular also meant more people demanding compatibility which triggered a few map designers. There’s also the “popular = good” crowd which were just as gay “popular bad” and “way it was meant to be played” fags.
My big thing for it these days is it has nothing to offer me that I can’t get in other mods, but it can still serve as a gateway to Doom modding for others and I don’t mind people who have fun with it.

[Anonymous No.9179518]

>>9179468
the creator of brutal doom is a black tranny? since when was reddit transphobic/racist?

[Anonymous No.9179521]

>>9179468
they groom children their opinions on fun is irrelevant

[Anonymous No.9179523]

Supercharge is the same concept as Brutal Doom but it's actually fun and doesn't run at single digit framerates on anything that isn't an IWAD.

[Anonymous No.9179528]

>>9179363
No that's not Chocolate DOOM

[Anonymous No.9179548]

>Mogs all other sourceports

[Anonymous No.9179551]

>>9179523
someone's poor

[Anonymous No.9179556]

>>9179521
take meds

[Anonymous No.9179563]

>>9179551
Brutal Doom running like shit is common knowledge. Not even the creator disputes the fact that his mod is borderline unplayable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGqtsWmCNOg

[Anonymous No.9179575]

>>9179563
>The only real complaint boomers have against Brutal Doom
>Soon to be addressed and fixed.

BROOTALCHADS keep winning.

[Anonymous No.9179580]

>>9179563
someone's poor
also nobody plays brutal doom to play slaughter shit lmao

[Anonymous No.9179585]

>>9179575
>Soon to be addressed
>Soon
lol

[Anonymous No.9179591]

>>9179363
>My bait on /v/ wasn't getting enough replies, time to go to /vr/ and try again

[Anonymous No.9179594]

>>9179591
How absolutely embarassing.

[Anonymous No.9179595]

>>9179575
Even the optimized version still runs like shit. It's just not a slideshow anymore. He probably made someone from his discord optimize his YandereDev tier code

[Anonymous No.9179623]

>>9179518
The creator was accused of being transphobic and racist (he is) by other modmakers

[Anonymous No.9179669]

>>9179595
That’s what happens when you have all those custom monsters and decide/zscripts happening with such a ridiculous monster count. Most mods don’t go that hard so it shows how well optimized it will be for normal play.

>>9179623
B…based?

[Anonymous No.9179671]

>>9179263
gross

>>9179548
truth

[Anonymous No.9179675]

>>9179356
Try that in complex doom, see how far you reach charging a room

[Anonymous No.9179825]

Rate

[Anonymous No.9179861]

Agreed. Brutal Doom is what makes Classic Doom playable because it gives hitboxes to monsters. I can't describe how pathetic it is to see people playing vanilla Doom and aiming to the sky or to the ground and still hitting enemies. This could work back in the early 90's when people didn't use a mouse to aim, but nowadays is unacceptable.

[Anonymous No.9179876]

>>9179548
I prefer a bit more… crispness.

[Anonymous No.9179886]

>>9179861
you don't need brutal doom for this

[Anonymous No.9179927]

Johnny Doom > Brutal Doom > Project Bloat

>>9179861
Modern fan levels are so populated that aiming for each enemy's head wouldn't matter even in brutal doom
As for aiming with the mouse in general, it's considered a form of cheating in speedrunning because it would let you hit a chaingunner on a pillar behind an imp, while someone using autoaim could only hit the imp, but if you're playing single player for fun there's nothing stopping you from turning it on

[Anonymous No.9179939]

>>9179886
The post also mentions “when people didn’t use a mouse to aim” so it could just be a shitpost.

[Anonymous No.9179945]

>>9179468
I just find it excessive and not as fun, and the fact that tons of (non-doomer) people brought it up as basically the only reason to play doom nowadays is sorta annoying

[Anonymous No.9179958]

>>9179939
true. romero himself during development playtested the game with mouse and the original EXE is has full mouse support. granted many only played with a keyboard but it was developed with mouse in mind.

[Anonymous No.9179982]

>cowadoodie doom
what's the demographics for this mod?

[Anonymous No.9179990]

>>9179958
Mouse drivers were also much more taxing back then, so at the time you would need a rig that could handle those in addition to Doom. Sound drivers were a whole other mess.

[Anonymous No.9180002]

>>9179982
Kids, south americans, south american kids.

[Anonymous No.9180008]

>>9179990
yeah i had friends who played without sound or without music.
Doom without music is an interesting experience tho. totally different tone.

[Anonymous No.9180096]

>>9179927
>Aiming is considered cheating

Purist speedfags on pure copium.

[Anonymous No.9180109]

>>9179556
No groomer

[Anonymous No.9180128]

>>9179945
this. now these casuals are back to their cashcow traps of online gaming unlockin their 16472nd skin. good riddance.

[Anonymous No.9180129]

>>9180096
aiming =/= vertical aim
Doom engines most wads are built for (Vanilla v1.9, Boom, MBF, etc.) don't support vertical aim, and Doom's autoaim has a set limit range that maps are built around. So if you enable vertical mouselook, you can snipe everything from a distance without having to engage with the game using the chaingun or rocket launcher. So yes, it's cheating. If you want to cheat, then you can play the game however you want. But you technically didn't actually beat it.

[Anonymous No.9180139]

>>9180096
The game was designed around autoaim and a fixed point of view, so yes freelook breaks the difficulty. Retard

[Anonymous No.9180252]

>>9180096
I'm not saying they aren't but speedrunning is the reason for a lot of things
a vocal portion of players use no mouse aim and no finitely tall monsters/props for speedrun standards, and level makers use script formats that were outdated 25 years ago, or no scripts at all, to make them conducive to speedrunning

[Anonymous No.9180380]

>>9179927
>Project Bloat
?

[Anonymous No.9180403]

Final Doomer, Project Babel, Project MSX, and DAKKA are better.

[Anonymous No.9180408]

>>9180403
More or less yeah.
>>9180380
It's probably poking reasonable fun at Project Brutality. It has more features and arguably more polish than BD while being far more bloated with gameplay and weapons than BD ever was.

[Anonymous No.9180484]

>>9179363
>playing iwads in 2022

the problem with brutal doom is that it dumbs down the game. everything dies so easily there is no need to utilize infighting to conserve ammo. watched someone run haste map 10 on brutal doom and a cyber legit died after about 12 SSG shots. at that point just play doom 2016 or any other modern shooter.

[Anonymous No.9180487]

>>9180408
As much as I hate BD, it's definitely way better than PB. PB is just a bunch of ripped sprites from other projects with some animation interpolation + blur slapped on. It's really ugly to look at and play.

[Anonymous No.9180495]

>>9179825
doom 1 and doom 2 unironically suck outside of thy flesh consumed, final doom is easily the best iwad but is also completely outclassed pwads like scythe 2 and ancient aliens.

[Anonymous No.9180503]

>>9179861
that's what alot of people like about doom, less of an emphasis on aiming and a greater emphasis on movement, granted you can have both in games like quake but it's better to view doom as a bullet hell/combat puzzle rather than an FPS

[Anonymous No.9180507]

>>9180484
Brutal Doom is just unbalanced, it makes some things unbearably hard, and some things laughably easy. As you pointed out, stuff like Cyberdemons are a joke, but suddenly you get ambushed by a pack of shotgunners and imps and your UV run is over. It's difficulty balance is borderline schizophrenic, and there are just way better gameplay mods out there if you want "Doom but faster and harder"

This anon >>9180403 has some pretty good suggestions. Project Babel is a better "hard mode" mod, Project MSX is a better "I want Doom but as a modern shooter" mod, and DAKKA is a great "I just want a power fantasy" mod. Final Doomer is a great mod but I don't really see how it's comparable to BD though.

[Anonymous No.9180513]

>>9180507
>Final Doomer is a great mod but I don't really see how it's comparable to BD though.
I'm just going by personal preference, honestly. I really like the variety of weapons and playstyles in Final Doomer.

[Anonymous No.9180514]

>>9179449
I think the problem comes when people recommend it as the "definitive doom experience" and encourage people to play it instead of playing vanilla first.

[Anonymous No.9180515]

>>9179263
>>9179313
>>9179412
Nice bait it was, but you are 2-3 years too later with it.

[Anonymous No.9180516]

>>9179449
it is cool. but it's not doom. it adds so many mechanics that core fundamentals of doom get ignored. hard to really justify using infighting and space control tactics when cyberdemons die from a few shotgun rounds. classic doom is more combat puzzle/bullet hell while brutal doom is a power fantasy. brutal doom is fun but doesn't really hold long term interest due to how it dumbs down the game. there is a reason brutal doom players play on 20 year old iwads then drop the game when they get bored

[Anonymous No.9180517]

>>9180513
Final Doomer is more like a vanilla+ mod for me. There are some crazy OP weaponsets like the Hellboundguy weapons, but otherwise they're fairly balanced in comparison to vanilla.

[Anonymous No.9180526]

>>9179945
yea like the mod itself is fine. it's not the reason i play doom but it's fun enough and gets more modern players into doom. the problem is when people claim it's the "way doom should be played" as it kinda just showcases how little they know about doom lol

[Anonymous No.9180634]

>>9180129
>>9180139
>>9180252
>Game is so broken being able aim up is considered cheating

But yeah GZDoom/Brutal Doom are worst experiences because they enable that by default lol.

[Anonymous No.9180636]

>>9180507
The fact you need 3 other kids to individually do 3 specific things better than 1 mod kinda shows how versatile Brutal Doom is

[Anonymous No.9180639]

>>9179263
Doom 2016 was inspired by serious sam. boomer shooters should be called first person twin stick shooters

[Anonymous No.9180689]

>>9180639
Eternal has added game mechanics but in my eyes 2016 is the superior game.
they don't feel much like Doom tho outside of a few aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.9180691]

>>9180636
You can rationalize it all you want, at the end of the day it more so displays how unfocused BD and all other brutal-esque mods are. Hell, for Sgt Mark, his "preferred" way of playing BD is on Realism mode, which is basically just discount Hideous Destructor. And then you have the classic mode which was meant to appease his detractors, but still plays nothing like vanilla doom. When you have an unfocused mod that tries to do many things instead of being hyper-specific on one core design idea, you end up with the shitty balance issues that current BD has.

[Anonymous No.9180728]

>>9180691
I mean a mod that nails it’s core feature of “doom but bigger and gorier” and then has a bunch of extra features to placate other play styles all in one package sounds pretty good to me.

Like GTA ain’t got the best driving or shooting in comparison to dedicated driving or shooting games but it still succeeds by being good at a bunch of things at once.

[Anonymous No.9180753]

>>9180728
Well, I hate the GTA games and most of Rockstar's output, so that analogy doesn't really work for me. If I want to play a shooter, I'll play a shooter. If I want to play a beatem-up, I'll play a beatem-up. If I want to play a driving game, I'll play a driving game. I would never play GTA just because it half-asses all of these genres and packages them into one game.

[Anonymous No.9180775]

>>9179556
>>9179468
niggertranny

[Anonymous No.9180790]

>>9180775
could we not?

[Anonymous No.9180847]

>>9180109
All conservatives are pedophiles.
No exceptions.

[Anonymous No.9180851]

>>9180139
Don't bullets in doom automatically aim at enemies regardless of the Z level?

[Anonymous No.9180858]

>>9180753
>shooting

a lot of depth, even in GTA 3

>Driving

really good, gta is great for stunts.

>combat

this one could be better

>mission design

really good

[Anonymous No.9180879]

>>9179263
I like vanilla doom, I like brutal doom and i like complex doom + lca. You don't have to pick one or the other. Vanilla doom purists are dumb
>t. grew up playing dos doom, played doom psx as a teen, played doom legacy online with my bros through doom connector and now plays every kind of wad every once in a while

[Anonymous No.9181082]

>>9180753
But that’s literally the point, you get a game that is pretty great at everything mixed into one giving you tons of freedom. Yeah you can’t get the precision of a Gran Turismo game in GTA… but you also can’t kill a hooker then blow up a gas station with a minigun in GT either.

[Anonymous No.9181124]

>>9179449
Unironically trannies.
Not kidding. Look it up.

[Anonymous No.9181134]

>>9179623
>being transphobic and racist
I guess you dont have a choice, you will be clled transphobic or racist if you dont praise the lgbt movement 24/7.

[Anonymous No.9181139]

>>9181082
That mentality doesn't make sense because Brutal Doom has all of these modes existing in separate ecosystems. It's not like Brutal Doom is simultaneously a realistic milsim+a classic shooter+modern shooter at the same time. It just has half-assed modes resembling those genres. My point is that there are mods that do all of these things better, and the only convenience you get with Brutal Doom is that you can play these modes from the in-game menu. You're acting like it's a comprehensive package when it's just a mish-mash of mechanics.

[Anonymous No.9181142]

>>9180851
Depends. Mods can disable that auto aim.

[Anonymous No.9181146]

>>9181139
I'd say don't bother arguing with him. Let him play the mod if he so desires.

[Anonymous No.9181160]

>>9181146
Eh, I'm having a good faith argument with that anon, I don't really mind dragging this out longer.

[Anonymous No.9181184]

>>9181124
Rent free

[Anonymous No.9181285]

>>9181124
do you look up the sexual orientation/identity of people who flip your burgers, make the movies you watch develop all the games make all the music and design the clothes you wear too ? fkin schizos

[Anonymous No.9181480]

>>9179319
>Zoomer doom
why is this not a thing?

[Anonymous No.9181481]

>>9179623
>The creator was accused of being transphobic and racist (he is)
what a chad

[Anonymous No.9181487]

>>9181285
I actually do, yeah, I cook my own food, I'm not a useless piece of crap

[Anonymous No.9181501]

>>9179356
Brutal is the truest vision of Doom.

Carmack and Romero would have made it like this if they had power back then.

[Anonymous No.9181543]

>>9181487
because you think other people don't cook?
plus there's all the other shit you consume and the water's cycles is so that you drink water that's been pissed by trans people...

[Anonymous No.9181560]

>>9179263
zoomer opinion.

[Anonymous No.9181562]

>>9181560
brutal zoom

[Anonymous No.9181612]

>>9179861
>hitboxes to monsters
this and simple modifications like recoil and reloading makes the game feel so much more alive

[Anonymous No.9181618]

>>9181612

[Anonymous No.9181621]

>>9179468
>>9179468
If you're going to add new weapons why not add more bots and levels with new textures also?

[Anonymous No.9181639]

>>9181618
I'm 41 and bald

[Anonymous No.9181643]

>>9181639
More like 41%

[Anonymous No.9181715]

>>9181643

[Anonymous No.9181792]

>>9181612
recoil and reloading is precisely what i dislike the mpost in bd.
also the sounds are ear rapey and the sprites hideous.
this mod is fun 5 minutes but no wonder the community got brutal fatigue.
the blood dripping effects are nicely done tho.

[Anonymous No.9181793]

>>9181715
>zoom eternal

[Anonymous No.9181794]

>>9181793
>zoom 2016
my bad

[Anonymous No.9181808]

>>9181643
Jej

[Anonymous No.9181813]

>>9181612
Reloading can work if there's something else to go along with it. I don't feel the reloads in Brutal Doom add much to the gameplay though.

[Anonymous No.9181823]

>>9179263
>everything is glass cannon now because MUH HEDSHOTS
>breaks enemy closets and teleporters with cybies and masterminds because retard author decided to change their radius for no reason
>stupid sound leak caused by unnecessary sound propagation error, fixing which breaks everything else because of spaghetty code
>dying enemies still eat bullets/rockets/plasma because MUH BRUTALEETEE
>why is revolver shooting gore
>why the small golden skellys
>WhY iS IT NoT ComPAtiBlE wiTh BEsT MoD EVeR BRooTaL DewM MaKE iT COMpAtiBLe

[Anonymous No.9181868]

>>9179263
>>9179356
>>9179468
I played with Brutal Doom for a couple years straight; hundreds of hours of different megawads and map sets. I basically turned the gore down to the lowest level, used the classic weapons options and also switched off most of the bloat and gimmicks. That was my favourite way to play it, as a sort of Brutal Doom "Lite". This year I've switched over to Project Babel though. Feels more "true" to the original while still feeling dynamic and punchy, like Brutal Doom.
>>9179523
>Supercharge
This looks neat, gonna have to check it out.
>>9180008
>Doom without music is an interesting experience tho. totally different tone.
Play with the PSX soundtrack, it's phenomenal. Very different experience again; one that will unnerve and put you on edge.

[Anonymous No.9182112]

>>9181139
GTA is also a mishmash of random game modes too, it has racing and target ranges and golf and soccer all existing within their own mini game space.

Point is that Brutal Doom offers a lot of stuff to do at a pretty consistent level across all its modes that’s only really beaten by specific mods that only do one thing it does better. I’d just say that’s a pretty good package.

[Anonymous No.9182117]

>>9181823
>why the small golden skellys
Still funny after all these years

[Anonymous No.9182127]

>>9182112
Except what you're describing are minigames. Not the fact that GTA is both simultaneously a lifesim, shooter and driving game at the same time. Again, I think the GTA games are shit so this analogy is completely lost on me, but at the very least we can acknowledge that it has these different mechanics working simultaneously. One second you could be beating up a random citizen, stealing a car, driving away from cops, and then entering a shootout. These aren't separate systems. Brutal Doom doesn't have the same harmony of systems, so comparing it to individual mods that do specific things better is completely appropriate

[Anonymous No.9182198]

>>9181868
>This year I've switched over to Project Babel though. Feels more "true" to the original while still feeling dynamic and punchy, like Brutal Doom.
It does a wonderful job keeping vanilla intentions in mind while it takes liberty with its additions. For contrast, a lot of other gameplay mod authors get a huge kick out of turning cacodemons into one-ssg-shot fast flying pinkies.

[Anonymous No.9182219]

>>9182112
I get what you're thinking, but I don't agree that BD does all these things that well. Doom is a shooting game, and the shooting and fighting leaves a lot to be desired.
My biggest gripe with it is the wonky balancing, I love that the lower tier enemies are made much deadlier, but high tier enemies being so fragile thanks to headshot mechanics and special finishers that it just REALLY kills their purpose.

Look at the Baron Of Hell, in the original game he's a really durable enemy that can get around most common level geometry while hitting like a train. Employed in less free and open spaces, he can be really oppressive because you gotta keep your distance while avoiding his attacks and focusing fire on him, you're putting lot of shells or a fair few rockets into him to make him go away, and that's complicated further if other enemies are bothering you too (though since he can take and give so much damage, he's extremely useful for infighting).

In Brutal Doom, a lot of the Baron Of Hell's value is reduced by headshot damage multipliers, and then there's the part where he can not just pick up the dead bodies of Imps and Zombies he killed when infighting, then throwing them at the player, he will also pick up and throw explosive barrels at the player, like some sort of infernal Donkey Kong. Now, that's actually an EXTREMELY cool detail that I like a lot, and what's even cooler is that you can then shoot the barrel while he's holding it to make it explode in his hands.
The major problem with that is that this kills him automatically, even if he had full health, which doesn't really jive with how in the original game, a single exploding barrel at point blank could never drop a healthy Baron.

This kind of thing exemplifies my feelings with BD. It does a lot of cool things which I really like, but for every thing I like, there's a thing I really hate. I can see a lot of the appeal, but I just wish that it was a lot better.

[Anonymous No.9182241]

>>9179591
lol I was about to say the same

[Anonymous No.9182248]

>>9179825
>Doom 64 in Awful
Kys

[Anonymous No.9182407]

>>9181868
Play with the PSX soundtrack, it's phenomenal. Very different experience again; one that will unnerve and put you on edge.
i know about them i have PSX Doom and PSX Final Doom on disc i play them on a fat PS2.
i like playing them back to back with Doom64 since they share the same atmosphere and sound effects. music was composed by the same composer Aubrey Hodges.
believe it or not but these soundtracks aside from a few songs are mostly MIDI with tons of effects.

[Anonymous No.9182432]

>>9179263
not retro

[Anonymous No.9182436]

>>9181501
>reloading
Fuck you to death.

[Anonymous No.9182457]

>>9182432
kek shoulda been first post.
BD should be contained in the Doom thread anyway.

[Anonymous No.9182460]

>>9181501
this is bait

[Anonymous No.9182478]

>>9182457
>filter threads by “Doom”, four results
Yeah these could all be in the same thread.

[Anonymous No.9182809]

>>9179356
Looks great.

[Anonymous No.9182837]

>>9182127
I mean the harmony works because you to change modes to get into the games, you can’t just randomly join up golf or tennis you basically gotta change game modes to get them. And changing the options for brutal doom can be done on the fly in the options easily. You can turn off basically all the extra options instantly or choose them from a menu seamlessly. It’s Doom ain’t like your performing surgery to change modes.

The harmony comes in that all the systems can come together at any time. You can choose to use the updated visuals or the modern shooter mechanics and mix and match at any time. So yeah, I think it absolutely applies and your arbitrary reason it doesn’t is weird.

[Anonymous No.9182850]

>>9182219
Interesting. I think it's fun, and you're a pathetic seething loser who obsesses far too much with how other people play video games. No one cares that BD isn't personally sucking your dick or saving your soul. Maybe go cry somewhere else about it. This board isn't for you to be whine about your problems or how the universe fails to meet your expectations.

[Anonymous No.9182857]

>>9182219
I disagree, the shooting is something it does very well. It’s punchy and satisfying in a different way from Doom, and its variety of weapons all serve a distinct function.

Plus like you said, a lot of higher tier enemies get boosts to their ai and attacks to even the playing field. Plus the speed of the Barons projectiles i feel at least compensated for the headshot damage. Plus if you really think it ruins the experience I think some versions of Brutal Doom allow you to turn off enemy weak points.

[Anonymous No.9182931]

>>9182219
Always felt silly seeing enemies get new attacks as well as the means of killing them more quickly, but that seems to be a desired feature of BD’s “glass cannon” gameplay direction. It’s a similar direction that Hideous Destructor steers towards, though it plays much differently since the mod doesn’t carry over Doomguy’s high speeds or infinite stamina.

[Anonymous No.9182951]

>>9182850
Why are you so aggressive about it? I never said he shouldn't play it.

>>9182857
>It’s punchy and satisfying in a different way from Doom, and its variety of weapons all serve a distinct function.
Some of it is, the Plasma feels fantastic for instance, but the Assault Rifle doesn't, its sound in particular is really grating. I also don't feel that all the guns serve entirely distinct functions, the Minigun and Machinegun both use the same ammo and are both rapid fire automatic weapons, I also feel like they make the Assault Rifle less relevant by using the same ammo for much higher DPS.

>Plus if you really think it ruins the experience I think some versions of Brutal Doom allow you to turn off enemy weak points.
I actually did not know that, is that in much more recent versions?

>>9182931
I'm not opposed to some Glass Canoneering, I like that kind of stuff, but I feel it's not appropriate for the high tier monsters which are supposed to be really resilient. 12 Shotgun shells (or outright 6, before Mark fixed the bug in the damage calculation) for killing the Cyberdemon really feels like Russian Overkill territory.

[Anonymous No.9183024]

>>9182951
I will never like BD’s assault rifle sprite, always looked boring to me. The blatantly more phallic plasma rifle is at least fun/funny.
>I'm not opposed to some Glass Canoneering, I like that kind of stuff, but I feel it's not appropriate for the high tier monsters which are supposed to be really resilient.
Yeah, they can be even more imposing when they have new abilities while still having a hard time going down. That and having a harder time dying is the only reason to place barons over hell knights unless you want some pink in your horde rather than tan.

[Anonymous No.9183760]

>>9183024
Yeah I agree, i swear it’s not even originally from BD as well.

The old BD AR and the PB AR are way better.

[Anonymous No.9183793]

>>9182951
>Minigun and Assault Rifle both being too similar

Eh not really, the assault rifle is better at range and consumes a lot less ammo for better precision, while the minigun shreds everything but tears through ammo too much.

Besides that’s not really any different from the pistol being made redundant by the chaingun in the original game.