/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9151950
It adds a few new levels including Thieves Guild which is regarded as the worst in the series

>>9151950
Adds a couple missions in the mix. Get TF Fix lite for a modern vanilla experience.

>>9151950
the main sticking point is it fucking up one of the better levels of the original by adding a bunch of human guards to what had been a tomb level with a really strong lonely atmosphere. It's not a perfect fix but I honestly think the easiest solution is just using this mod that removes the guards.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=839934571

>>9151950
Thief Gold adds 3 new levels: Thieves Guild, Mage Towers and Song of the Caverns. Thieves Guild is arguably the worst level in the series (not counting the abysmal 2014 reboot,) often makes people rage-quit the game and it's put inbetween two of the best levels in the original campaign (Assassins and The Sword.) Mage Towers has a more mixed reception with some people who hate it and some who think it's just okay. I find it a slog on replays personally but your mileage may vary. Final added level Song of the Caverns is fantastic and one of the best levels in the game. These levels also kinda fuck-up the original games pacing which is a shame. Thief Gold also has some tweaks and adds different textures to some levels, most notably Down in the Bonehoard as well as removing the famous Return to the Cathedral door skip. They also added some Mages to The Lost City level, which plus a few other changes makes that level weaker in most peoples opinion. However the secret area (Little Big World) added to The Sword is fantastic if you can find it and a great addition.

So yeah, you're best off playing Thief Gold despite it adding some problems, just because Song of the Caverns and the secret area in The Sword are so fucking good. Just know that if you hate Thieves Guild and want to rage-quit, don't worry so does everyone else. Just grin and bear it.

For mods you want either TFix Lite or NewDark. Full TFix changes a bunch of shit, which honestly makes it a different experience, even if you uncheck everything in the installer. Mostly it's stuff from Thief 2, textures and AI 'improvements'. Problem is that Thief 1 didn't support colored lighting while Thief 2 did so the textures look bland and boring in the older version of the engine. The bigger problem is the AI which was tweaked for Thief 2 but honestly works worse than the original AI when put into Thief 1. Thief 2 had a lot of wide, open areas whereas Thief 2 was more confined to corridors and enclosed spaces.

>>9152075
Also be warned. Thief 1 and 2 have basically the same engine and gameplay and are generally considered two halves of a whole. However Thief 1 is about half-stealth, half supernatural horror whereas Thief 2 is almost entirely stealth missions. Some people love the horror elements in Thief 1 whereas some people absolutely hate it and get filtered by it. If you find you like the stealth gameplay but hate the horror levels maybe skip to Thief 2 and then revisit Thief 1 later. Personally I love the horror levels and would recommend playing 1 before 2 but keep that in mind.

They're great games. Best stealth system ever devised and still un-topped even by great games like Chaos Theory (which stole more than half its good ideas from Thief in the first place). It's entirely light and, especially, sound based. By just leaning into a closed door you can hear exactly where an incoming enemy is coming from. Not just that but you can hear the direction and what kind of surfaces they're walking on even without seeing the room. Problem is the guards can hear your footsteps too although it depends on what surface your walking on and whether you're running, walking or creeping over it.

>>9151950
>Version differences
>Thief: Gold includes extra missions, bug fixes, and some other enhancements, but makes controversial changes to existing missions that tone down supernatural themes and otherwise alter the perception of characters.
> You can "downgrade" an installation of Thief: Gold to Thief: The Dark Project if you want to play the game closer to as originally published (though not perfectly) by using GoldToDark.

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Thief:_The_Dark_Project

>>9152092
Nah GoldToDark doesn't work properly. Lost City in particular doesn't actually work like in the Dark Project. You're better off finding an ISO of Dark Project and upgrading it to NewDark directly.

>>9152094
forgot to paste this
>GoldToDark is a "downgrade" community patch for Thief Gold that will revert most changes made in Thief Gold into a version more like the original Thief: The Dark Project.
maybe add the shit it doesn't get right as a negative with a 'thumbs down" using

{{iii]}} text here

>>9152103
>>9152094
oops i fucked up, it's

{{--}}

>>9151950
It adds a few new levels, and updates the engine to be more like Thief 2 (they're already pretty similar, it mostly tweaks a few physics things like vaulting over ledges). Some of the new levels are ok, though personally I don't see the appeal in any of them, I feel they kind of disrupt the pacing. One particular level (Thieves' Guild) is widely regarded as unequivocally awful.

My biggest beef is that it alters one of my favorite levels (The Lost City) and adds elements to it that I feel weaken its unique atmosphere and design. For this purpose, there is a mod that- oh, there it is. >>9152043

I still have trouble with Thief Gold+Tfix with high refresh rates (144fps). I tweaked the config files to keep the physics at 60hz and it mostly works but it feels like the walking speed just isn't quite right, if anything i'm moving quickly but quieter than I should be with some of the footfalls not registering properly.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING we will never, ever have access to again is the original Aureal A3D sound engine. Unless you're playing on an actual oldschool PC with an original version of the game, it's gone forever and not able to be emulated. Creative bought out A3D and shelved the technology to force EAX on everyone. They literally murdered it, buried it so they could have the patent and do nothing with it.

A3D was the best implementation of 3D localized sound and reflection ever implemented. It was unreal how good it was. The tech was originally developed in partnership with fucking NASA. I have distinct memories of playing Thief using a A3D accelerated card. You could press the lean key against a door, putting your ear to it, and hear the sound defined so well you could literally tell which direction a guard was walking parallel to the door. Not just "left/right channel, loud/quiet" shit. It was so fucking good. EAX doesn't even come close. This tech is gone forever; patented and locked away.

>Modern Creative cards use the X-Fi chip, which contains Creative's own (not great) 3D implementation. The A3D patents were never used inside. In fact, the Foosball table at the main office was jokingly called the $32,000,000 table because it was the only thing from the purchase of Aureal's assets that was actually used. A couple of simple minor things (such as MacroFX) were used from the purchase of Sensaura, but none of the really good stuff (like Virtual Ear, for example, which would allow you to tune the 3D algorithm to your own ear shape).
>Just to clarify, EAX is, first and foremost, a straight reverb implementation and is separate from the 3D HRTF calculations.
>Unfortunately, you won't be able to use any card with anything greater than XP. From Vista onwards, Microsoft removed hardware acceleration through DirectSound. Creative 3D acceleration only works for games using OpenAl for audio or, as some other manufacturers also do, having a driver that intercepts DirectSound calls and reroutes them to the hardware.
>Basically, without XP or earlier, you're stuffed. A virtual machine is unlikely to be able to see the sound hardware at all as the VM software provides its own software audio emulation.

>>9152292
>>9152294
The game uses A3D 1.0 which isn't that special compared to their later A3D 2.0 released that has stuff like mealtime reflections and occlusions. Creative has included a wrapper for A3D 1.0 in most of their drivers.

https://youtu.be/AAOcdfCN-RU
This is what an actual A3D 2.0 game sounds like.

>>9152294
how did you not know about creative alchemy? it wraps directsound3d games to openal making them work with modern OSes. it requires an x-fi though, because otherwise it will run in software mode without hardware acceleration.
https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/68-creative-alchemy/

>>9152369
Unfortunate that the list of A3D 2.0 supported games isn't very high compared to A3D 1.0.

Thief general?

>>9152039
I can't find this. I read somewhere that it makes changes that take it even further from the original. Also I read Gold makes story changes as well, is that true?

>>9151950
A couple of new missions and a secret easter egg/blooper reel level that you need to activate by editing the user.cfg file in the game's directory.
They also made some minor changes to some levels (additional guards, some new visual effects, etc.)
That's about it if I recall correctly.

>>9153871
is it changed enough for internet spergs to bust my balls about?

>>9153879
I think you'd be fine playing the Gold version (as it has become the standard version for most new players anyhow as it's the only version that you can purchase on Steam/GOG).
The changes, to me, are so minor that it does not really alter the experience much.
(bonus fact: If you are German, you should consider playing it with the German dub. The voice of Garret is amazing and as good as Stephen Russel's VO.)

I might just be insane, but I really enjoyed Thief's Guild, even after replaying it on expert.

>>9153893
it is better on replays, it's overwhelming for the first time players

>>9153893
Prepping the bull

You can choose to play Thief Gold and use the skip level cheat on the new levels. I think it's worth giving them a try at least once, but you can always save them for a replay.

I'm new to thief but I want to say that thief has some of the coolest fan made content I've seen in a game. Some of these fan missions are really good.

>>9153893
I remembered it being some insane multi-hour endurance run when I played it way back as a kid but now that I'm slightly less retarded using the compass, it was not that a big of a deal at all, still a pain in the ass but done in 30 minutes or so.

>>9151950

What can you say about The Dark Mod?
I completed tutorial and first mission, it's not bad but I can't force myself to play next levels by some reason.

>>9151950
>magnet:?xt=urn:btih:64d8cc65e8e605446a076041da9c244c41bd1d27&dn=Thief%20collection
18gb fan mission collection, all sorts of variety embedded with description tags for ease of searching. There are also other things, but apparently fms are the only thing currently seeded.

I just found Thief Deadly Shadows at the shop.
What am I in for? Is it better than that Thief from 2014?

>>9157647
Anything is better than the abomination that is Thiaf. Deadly Shadows can be enjoyed on some level nowadays but it is deeply frustrating compared to the first two. I've gone back multiple times over the decades trying to give Thief 3 another chance and it just disappoints every time. Honestly I would just recommend starting to check out fan missions instead, there's a lot of really cool stuff in there.

>>9157647
ok game, but a big downgrade compared to previous two. Expect clunky controls, small levels and great atmosphere

>>9153867
Gold doesn't make any notable story changes that I recall. It splits the location of some talismans (keys). So instead of two per map there's one per map. Iirc.

>>9157647
Much better. There are a few mods you should get. One that un-splits the levels(they were split due to Xbox release), one that adds in proper mission briefings. And one other I'm forgetting for some reason sorry

>>9157647
Decent game apart from Shalebridge Cradle which is regarded as one of the best and most atmospheric levels in the series

Would a HBO show based on Thief work out?

>>9152083
god I wish T2 actually looked like the artwork surrounding it (including T1's ending cinematic). in the artworks, it looks like the perfect alternative take on the T1 aesthetic (with T2 offering the "techy" dystopia whereas T1 offered a crumbling city with nasty horrors lurking in the shadows).

the main thing holding back T2's realisation of its art direction is the ugly, box-like architecture (which contrasts the more organic feel in the artwork). the second issue is the lack of a consistent colour scheme. T1 is the "blue" game. the cold blueish tint with yellow highlights saturates the artwork as well as the appearance of the game world. T2, in contrast, is the "red" game. at least the artwork is dominated by a warm red that fits right into the theme of the game (steam engines, industrialisation etc.). however, the colour scheme of the actual game fails to be consistent with this theme. it feels all over the place

>>9155338
>Tafferpatcher
It's T2Fix Lite now

There's the itch again.
Instead of resuming my FM backlog I'm going to gamble on some recently released missions. If they're even halfway decent it'll be nice to give an author praise for something they did the other day, rather than... 10-20 years ago. Or being able to praise the author in the first place.

The Black Parade is still in dev? I'm happy I didn't miss it, but I'm sorry for people who've had to wait so long. Are there any other flagship FMs/bundles like that that came out recently? To be honest, all of my info has come from this board and I hate navigating old forums.

>>9153849
thief general!!!

>>9161897
I agree

>>9161826
>show is centered around some random NPC instead of Garret
>NPC was white dude in game, is now stronk black woman
>trailer and first episode cost millions of dollars, so the other episodes become progressively more thread-bare as money runs out
>only instance of actual theft occurs in first 5 minutes of first episode, never happens again
>rest of show is centered around generic interpersonal drama and romantic relationships
>show is a ratings flop, many thinkpieces are written about how the show was actually amazing and white supremacy and the patriarchy are to blame for killing it

>>9163738
Oh, and the cherry on top
>creators brag that they never even played the game

>>9152294
iirc the dark engine never actually supported a3d properly, only eax - i found a thread on vogons claiming that thief and ss2 work with sensaura(?) sound cards but trying to find this information almost 25 years later isn't terribly intuitive
it's been possible to get 3d audio working in newdark (and the dark mod, and you can use dsoal to get it working in thief 3!) with openal soft hrtf for years though, to me it's virtually essential https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW-W3A2l5UE

Thief general sounds nice.

>>9163727
Well I just completed Elemental Excursion, released in May. Hard to recommend due to the couple bugs that still exist, but it's a gooey tech demo wrapped in a A- level design chocolate shell. Fun, cute, good guard & loot placement.

>>9151950
The gog version already has t.lite,but i don't think it's the latest version.So get it.Tfix LITE,not tfix.You should get gold just because of the song of the caverns,and thieves guild can be fun when replaying.It's true that gold also can make some levels less interesting,like "The lost city",by adding humans in it..But i suppose you could use the mod >>9152043 mentioned.Also,thief may work like shit on some computers,so you may have to go to cam_ext in the game directory and make some changes to the options there.Also you may want to get an subtitle mod for the conversations.
https://gog-games.com/game/thief_gold
https://gog-games.com/game/thief_2_the_metal_age
Thief 1 and 2 are one of the best if not the best games to have ever been made,the sound,the atmosphere,the design of the levels,the lore,the dialogues,the voice acting,everything is great about it.Play them and enjoy them,you will not regret it.

bonk

Goodness, are Thief threads always this dead?

>>9165589
Yeah. On second thought, a general's probably not such a good idea.

>>9165589
It matches the games relevancy. Immersive sims are smelly turds and there's a reason none of them ever sold well.

>>9166361
>filtered

Ur a Taffer

>>9165589
Well, it's a Thief thread you dummy, everyone's being sneaky.

>>9166364
Get some new material, troon.

>>9166373
Based

>>9166361
Thief is a stealth game, buddy.

What is it about the Thief 1/2 engine that makes places look so comfy? Everytime I play a FM I just stop and bask in the environments around me. I get goosebumps just from looking at the cozyrooms the FM creators make. It's just something about the low-poly graphics
that make me want to relax in those places for real. I wish I lived in the manor from the Nosferatu FM, it's just so cozy and huge and I love how it's designed.

>>9166490
SOUL

For me, I think the use of Dromed itself engenders a sense of "everything has its own little place". It's slow and the tools don't let you skip through it. You have to construct everything just so, and it takes time and care, which ends up being reflected in the atmosphere of the finished product. It's also permanently nighttime and the streets are dangerous or creepy, so naturally you want to burrow down somewhere like the little mammal you are.

>>9165589
they're probably one of the most active non generals on vr.

Rec some Fan Missions for someone who hasn't played any.

>>916637X
>Get some new material
>troon
ironic

>>9166579

>>9155976
i found the engine they used to have more cons than pros. i have a decent set up and sometimes the computer would just burst into flames in the more taxing moments. It has some nice missions, i particularly remember one where you can basically explore a whole city and taff around a lot. always wanted something like that since i was a kid.

>>9161897
>T2, in contrast, is the "red" game.
i think more of green and gold for the second game. dunno why

>>9166757
You're joking right? Because of the logo?

I finally started playing Thief 1 earlier this year, but I fucked up and installed TF Fix instead of the Lite version. Will I be able to use my existing saves with Lite, or will I have to start over?

>>9167275
Even if you can't I'm pretty sure you can just skip missions to the one you are on.
>>9166673
If you had to pick 3 to play on here what would it be? Are they all really worth playing or did someone just grab a bunch of random ones?

>>9167862
>Even if you can't I'm pretty sure you can just skip missions to the one you are on.
iirc it's ctrl+shift+alt+end

>>9167862
>pick 3
Haven't played all of them, but I'd rec:

>Disorientation - one of the most famous FMs with its impressive sprawling City
>Heist Society - the quintessential mansion FM, very straightforward objectives but well-designed map, with many points of entry
>Black Frog campaign - 5 mission campaign with custom NPCs, some custom music, kino 2nd and 5th missions, and an intriguing plotline

Honorable mentions: A Better Tomorrow (too damn scary), Conspiracies In The Dark (nice dark atmosphere), The Tower (very small but comfy), Mission X (It is a very large casino)

>Are they all really worth playing
Generally yes but some of those FMs are... problematic, to say the least. Like the Rocksburg FMs with its obtuse objectives or the Calendra missions, which feel dated and have that cringe scene of Garrett having sex in one of them.
>did someone just grab a bunch of random ones
No but that pic is very old and it's missing some very good FMs, like Violent End of Duncan Malveine, Endless Rain, Ten Little Taffers, Midsummer Night's Heist, Lord Alan's Series, TX2 Campaign, Into The Odd, some of the winners from the T2 20th Anniversary contest, and that one FM campaign that takes place in a pirate island at daytime.

>>9168074
Thanks

>>9168074
>that one FM campaign that takes place in a pirate island at daytime

Sturmdrang Peak, right?

yes my dear... so pungent... just one whiff will do...don't get any closer to that mirror

started playing Thief Simulator hoping it would scratch that Thief itch. What a mistake...

>H-HELLO?! IS ANYONE THERE?

>>9157851
>>9159310
So, it is just like Wolfenstein '09 of the Thief series?

>>9163727
>The Black Parade is still in dev?
Yes.

>I'm happy I didn't miss it, but I'm sorry for people who've had to wait so long.
That's a really dumb way of looking at it. The team is small and they're extremely dedicated to their craft. It's natural a project of this scale is going to take a while.

How to fix the npc's animation reset jank? Is it because the game is at 100 fps? Its not game breaking but seeing an obvious animation loop breaks muh immersion.

taf