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/vr/ - Retro Games


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9123750 No.9123750 [Reply] [Original]

Why the fuck is N64 emulation still so shitty?
>32GB ram, 8GB GPU, 12 core 4ghz CPU
>audio still stutters
>graphical flickering in full screen
>pixelated or incorrect sized textures

whats the secret combination of emulator and plugin?

>> No.9123758

>I big computer why it no run good?
anon I

>> No.9123759

N64 and Saturn won't achieve good emulation for 20 years.

>> No.9123767

>>9123759
Mednafen is already good for Saturn emulation. It's 100% software rendered and doesn't have upscaling, but that shit is gay anyways.

>> No.9123771

>>9123767
>good for Saturn emulation
code for "better than the rest but still trash". if i can't play the game without seeing a single graphical error, it isn't good. I can emulate SNES and PS1 and never know the difference, this is not the case with N64 and Saturn.

>> No.9123778

>>9123750
retroarch with the mupencore with parallel

>> No.9123781

just get a flashcart jeez

>> No.9123782

>>9123771
I don't know when the last time you tried mednafen was, but mednafen's saturn emulation doesn't have graphical issues.

>> No.9123784

>>9123782
lol

>> No.9123785

>>9123782
yeah mednafen is generally fine but is not development accurate

>> No.9123787

>>9123750
I haven't any any trouble with bizhawk.

I do get problems with very high resolutions, so I set it anywhere from 640x480 to 1024x768, and then go fullscreen. Technically, for "authentic" appearance, you will never go above 640x480.

>> No.9123793

>>9123750
I dunno, recent Glide plugins totally ruck. Even Vigilante 8 started to work, at last.

>> No.9123794

>>9123785
>not development accurate
This is pretty much true for everything that isn't a NES or SNES emulator. May as well just drop the facade and say all emulators are shit and original hardware is the only way to play games

>> No.9123801

>>9123750
bizhawk says many n64 emulators are opengl based, and so if you have poor opengl support, it might be an issue.

>> No.9123827

Ducktendo 64 when?

>> No.9123835

>>9123778
retroarch refuses to work with my n64 usb controller. It wants me to map button based on a xbox controller instead which is bullshit

>> No.9123837
File: 2.59 MB, 640x504, 1623344866408.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9123837

>>9123750
I tend to switch between Jabo's Direct 3D and Glide, but the emulation tends to be inconsistent between different games (though it clearly has improved over the years).
You're right, but there's one thing Project64 did properly that I wish other emulators would do, and that's its extensive mouse support.
It can be done only through remapping the config file (cpf) itself, because for some stupid reason the devs decided to lock the user from mapping the mouse more globally in the gui.
The latest version of PCSX2 allows you to map everything on the mouse by default, and it makes up for considerably better control set-ups.
Mouse mapping should've been a default option for literally all emulators, yet only few have it, and almost none have done it right.

>> No.9123876

Why are people here so fucking bad at setting up an emulator?

>> No.9124058

i dont know. it ran fine on my dual core and gt9800 machine. maybe it's not the hardware, you fucking retard. your post reeks >>>/v/

>> No.9124073

>>9123750
You're likely using shitty plugins, though that's quite likely if you're using Project64 since it still bundles outdated plugins from 2012 or so and audio has never been its strong suit. I'd try out m64p if you want something much more likely to work out of the box without needing to configure anything.

Also, give these pages a read:
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Nintendo_64_emulators
https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Recommended_N64_plugins

With the right setup, almost every game works with no graphical issues, and only a handful of games suffer from timing issues, out of which only one or two suffer to the point of unplayability.

>> No.9124114

>>9123835
xinput is the standard for windows, dumbass.

>> No.9124132

I have no idea how or why people still use emulators like P64, or epsxe

>> No.9124140

>>9124132
People just play the same handful of popular games, they tend to work well in most emulators and have for many years, so they don't try anything else because what they already know and use works for them, and they go on to recommend it.

>> No.9124150

Why're you still using Project 64, OP? That's like complaining PS1 emulation is still shitty because you're still using ePSXe.
There's m64p for a standalone one, and Mupen64Plus-Next and ParaLLEl as Libretro cores. Same with PS1, there's Mednafen or Duckstation for standalones and Beetle PS1 for Libretro.

>> No.9124196

>>9124132
I don't like p64 for various reasons but honestly in terms of emulation "accuracy", all frequently maintained emulators are identical. They use the backends, the same code, same plugins... The decision is pretty superfluous since every n64 emulator is homogenized now post-ParaLLEI. EPSXE is just deprecated in comparison.

>> No.9124240

>>9123750
>be zoomer
>download pj64
>load up SM64
>have it muted so I can hear some youtuber in the background telling me how to play it
>set graphics to 16x internal resolution whatever that means
>everything looks really crisp
>hard to believe this came out 40 years ago
>run past a wall
>graphics go to shit with clipping and flickering
>I knew this would happen
>it's not the emulators fault it's because old games are jank
>load a save state
>game crashes
>wow I can't believe nintendo released it in this state
>played it for almost five minutes
>yeah guys n64 emulation is perfect these days

>> No.9124284

>>9123750
you're joking right? why are you using project 64? literally just get mupen, sometimes you gotta change the graphics plugin which is more annoying than not having to, but besides that it's fine, even on my low end computer

>> No.9124356

>>9124240
>graphics go to shit with clipping and flickering
Project 64 emulates Mario 64 perfectly without clipping or flickering.
>load a save state
>game crashes
Literally never happened. This might be a problem with underdeveloped emulators such as Xemu, or in extremely rare cases with post-sixth gen ones, but it has literally NEVER happened with anything older than that.
>wow I can't believe nintendo released it in this state
No-one is that retarded.

>> No.9124378
File: 82 KB, 1416x555, Metroid Prime 3 Corruption (Trilogy) Save and Ship Freezing.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9124378

>>9124240
>load a save state
>game crashes
Save states by themselves are storing the parameters for CPU, GPU and RAM data for the specific game.
Certain GC/Wii games have an issue with save states, because Dolphin can give a faulty parameters that wouldn't correspond with the NAND save data, resorting the games to freeze.
Even then, this can only happen if one uses save states extensively, or relies on multiple saves made at different locations in the game.
The N64 save data is generated through the SRAM which comes from CPU cache, so faulty save states are out of question.

>> No.9124435 [DELETED] 

>Remember the year 2000
>Friend of mine was already beating Ocarina of Time with an emulator
>20 years later emulated games run worse on super powerful computers compared to the Pentium 3s of the era
So what happened? did the accuracy autism killed emulation advances? is this why we can't have nice things and we're stuck with newly 99,99% accurate NES emulators?

>> No.9124441

>Remember the year 2000
>Friend of mine was already beating Ocarina of Time with an emulator
>20 years later emulated games run worse on super powerful computers compared to the Pentium 3s of the era
So what happened? did the accuracy autism killed emulation advances? is this why we can't have nice things and the big news in the emulation community is yet another new 99,99% accurate NES emulator?

>> No.9124605

>>9123876
This is the emulation tech support board. No, people will not use >>>/wsr/

>> No.9124626

>>9123758
Unga Bunga?

>> No.9124636

>>9124378
Nintendo's VC emulators consider the NAND, SRAM, EEPROM, whatever part of the save state. You can save state, play forward, save through the normal save mechanism and then reload the save state and your manual save will be reverted to the state it was earlier.
This is FAR FAR more common a problem than those guys in your forum post seem to think. Even back in the SNES days games would frequently treat SRAM as extra bonus scratch RAM for their own purposes. This is why Everdrives can't automatically save the save file to SD card because it would quickly use up the write endurance of the card.

>> No.9124671

>>9124284
>>9124150
Mupen is great except it doesnt work with my USB n64 controller. If you push the analog stick all the way in any direction the movement reverses in the game.

>> No.9124682

>>9124671
The Next version inside Retroarch should be fine just because of how RA deals with controls over all cores.

>> No.9124693

>>9123750
Ares is getting along nicely. For now just get an N64 and a flashcart and check back in 5 years.

>> No.9124807
File: 6 KB, 250x216, face.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9124807

i've been running N64 perfectly for a decade and a half, so

>> No.9124813

???
Do you live under a rock? N64 emulation is fantastic now. Use mupen with the parallel backend. Shit is nearly perfect

>> No.9124897

>>9124813
When I go to the github theres no way to get a compiled plugin

>> No.9124915
File: 659 KB, 1218x1015, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9124915

>dude use Parallei with retroarch its perfect

>> No.9124917

>>9123750
Isn't it supposed to be flawless with Retroarch now?

>> No.9124920

>>9123750
I think it has something to do with how the MIPs architecture is emulated. There was something specific to those processors that just can't be emulated right. This is why PS2, N64, and PSP, have so many graphical issues. Sure it runs fine, but the graphical issues are an eye sore.

>> No.9124942

>>9123835
Autism is your problem, use abstract thinking and you can map it.

>> No.9125292

>>9124915
Because you're using the parallel core retard. People in the thread have said to use mupen and change the rdp to parallel in the settings. It's actually fucking crazy how people are so bad at this shit

>> No.9125317

>>9124915
Use mupen with the parallel backend. Run at native res. Bam, near perfect n64 emulation

>> No.9125782

>>9124196
Although it also uses ParaLLEl, Ares has a wholly original N64 core unbeholden to the hacky workarounds of past emulators. It'll be a while still before it's worth using over the others, but it should eventually surpass them the same way bsnes surpassed ZSNES and SNES9X.

>> No.9125814

>>9124915
Nonono, that's the ParaLLEl-N64 CORE, which is outdated and only kept around for toasters that can't handle modern plugins and core improvements. What you want is the Mupen64Plus-Next core with the ParaLLEl PLUGINS.

That said, they really, really ought to rename that old core, because it only seems to confuse people, thinking that's what they need to use to get at the best possible emulation. It's only named like that because the head RetroArch dev saw the ParaLLEl plugins as a huge game-changer (which they are) and wanted to capitalize on them, so he rebranded the Mupen core they had at the time to ParaLLEl-N64 for maximum exposure. Unfortunately, the core itself was riddled with problems and was a mess to maintain, so they had to make a whole other core that was much closer to regular Mupen64Plus, and that's where we're at.

>> No.9125997

>>9123837
>Mouse mapping
It's such a chore to get it functioning at a point where it feels good. I couldn't get Timesplitters 2 on PCSX2 to feel right for the life of me.

>> No.9126615

>>9125997
The various light-gun games seem to work perfectly fine with it, and I also managed to tweak the controls of Deus Ex so that they resemble the PC original as much as possible.
Some game aren't made with mouse inputs in mind, such as the From Software dungeon crawlers, but even those seem to work much better than I expected (although I'd still much prefer a controller in their case)
As for Project 64, games like Duke Nukem Zero Hour and Jet Force Gemini feel like a dream with mouse support. The Y axis feels off in some of the FPS games, but I'd still argue that this is the better way of re-experiencing N64 exclusives like Turok 3, unless there will be an actual PC port.

>> No.9126673

>>9123759
I've been emulating saturn games perfectly since about 2007. Perhaps you're doing something stupid.

Are you still using nesticle and epsxe as well?

>> No.9126690

Unironically get a MiSTer. It'll be better than Saturn emulation and probably on par for price, especially when you consider and ODE/mods/repairs.

>> No.9126702

>>9126690
is the mister any good for saturn yet?

>> No.9126784

>>9126702
It's not even out yet, but there are beta cores I haven't tried yet, they're not even feature complete though.

>> No.9126797

>>9126702
Not yet, no. But after how impressive the ps1 core is I'm sure it will get there eventually

Unfortunately N64 will continue to be a little awkward without real hardware for awhile

>> No.9127027

>>9126673
What do you use for Saturn emulation? I'd like to have things set up and running as reliably as possible before the Princess Crown fan translation drops (someday.)

>> No.9127034

>>9126615
>light-gun games
I wish Silent Scope on the PS2 were made with light-gun input. Using mouse controls for that doesn't feel amazing either.

>> No.9127097

>>9123837
woah my mouse is moving without my consent

>> No.9127165

>>9127027
Not that anon but I've had the most success using the beetle saturn core in retroarch, but I haven't gone through the library extensively

>> No.9127192

>>9124441
accurate emulators are the ones with most innovative enhancement features you clueless retard
you deserve to keep playing pj64 1.6 forever

>> No.9127236

>>9123759
2 more weeks! No, 2 more decades!

>> No.9127250

>Every N64 game actually worth playing emulated flawlessly.
>Every N64 game that was mediocre or outright crap had visual bugs and glitches when emulated.
Funny how that works out. No reason to fret over trash kusoge looking slightly worse than it already did.

>> No.9127729

OP here thanks guys I figured it out

>> No.9129326

The best games the N64 has aren't even worth playing twice, so you're not missing much regardless of whatever the speedrunning trannies are up to these days.

>> No.9129337

>>9126615
Why not just use a usb controller right stick?

>> No.9129474

>>9129337
Well, I do that for most games, but there are a few that secretly happen to work better with a mouse.
You know, stuff like faster cursor movement and more precise aiming?
I mean, no one would've cared about 1964 GEPD Edition or the Primehack if the controls weren't so much better.

>> No.9129540

>>9129474
Does 1964 already have good mouse support? Last time it was still wonky

>> No.9129550

>>9123759
>Saturn
Can you hear us back there 12 years ago?

>> No.9129569

Would decapping any of the important chips on these hard to emulate systems help at all?

>> No.9129774

>>9129326
You /v/ faggots ruined /vr/.
OP there are good emulators you're just not looking hard enough. Stop using project 64.

>> No.9130159

>>9129569
Yes, but not immediately. Translating a decapped chip to Verilog/HDL and C++ in turn is a skill almost no one not already doing it for six figures has. So it's useful to decap and spread the hires photos around but you'll be waiting for that magical day when the right person is on sabbatical from his job reverse engineering nvidia GPUs and wants a toy project to keep him from going bonkers from boredom.

>> No.9130397
File: 47 KB, 526x592, 293092064_5168735699828989_6031326460058723534_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9130397

>>9123750
Because normalfags see sm64 and oot running *mostly* right and think that its perfect.
There was a /v/ thread recently with that exact mind set in fact, and as long as thats the mindset n64 will never improve.

>> No.9130437

>>9129774
Which ones should I use them?

>> No.9130543

>>9130397
Are you retarded?

>> No.9130560

>>9123759
I read this sentence in 2003

>> No.9130562

>>9130437
mupen64plus with parallel core for lle or glide for hle

>> No.9130623

>>9127250
>kusoge
you will never be japanese

>> No.9130641

>>9130623
>tfw you will never have small penisu and lack the ability to grow facial hair
why live

>> No.9130662

does the fact the SGI made some really complicated merged gpu-apu under IRIX contribute to the lack of proper emulation?

>> No.9130769

>>9124915
lol retard

>> No.9130776

>>9130641
post penis and beard

>> No.9131026

>>9129569
>>9130159
N64 already has leaked documentation that IIRC included Verilog models, and we've had that since 1999. In fact, it's widely thought that leak is the reason working N64 emulators surfaced so quickly, though no one in the scene will ever publicly admit to it.

>> No.9131039

>>9123771
>if i can't play the game without seeing a single graphical error, it isn't good.

You can't do that even on the original console for Saturn.
If anything, Saturn emulators enhance things by removing slowdown, allowing for 480p, having infinite save space, and turning meshes into true transparencies.
Dunno if mednafen does any of that though. SSF does.

>> No.9131051

>>9123876
Constant reminder that setting up a (good) emulation rig should be mandatory to vote

>> No.9131057

>>9123771
>if i can't play the game without seeing a single graphical error, it isn't good
Make your own, faggot. Stop being a whiny bitch.

>> No.9131071

Christ, it's pretty obvious most people in this thread have not kept up with developments in the scene since 2015 or so. N64 emulation is no longer shitty, and damn near every game works now. Angrylion and ParaLLEl-RDP make sure all games render exactly like real hardware would, with all effects intact and no graphical errors. If you prefer prettier graphics, GLideN64 now has HLE implementations of all microcodes, so you can now play in HD Rogue Squadron, World Driver Championship and other games that used to require a special plugin setup to even start up at all.

The biggest remaining problems have to do with core timings, and even then the vast majority of games are either not affected, are affected to a minor degree (shit like gameplay demos or intro cutscenes running too fast and desyncing from the intended musical cues) or even benefit from less lag. A grand total of one game (Knife's Edge) is currently unplayable because the whole game runs sanic fast, and it's like that Air Strike Patrol game for SNES: a mediocre title almost nobody has even heard of that will likely require insane accuracy to fix, and when it IS fixed, people will just say "cool, guess that's done then" and will go back to forgetting it exists.

>> No.9131141

>>9123750
>4GHz
top kek, GHzlet

>> No.9131142

>>9123778
>>9123835
>>9124114
Works for me, also with dinput. Sounds like a user problem.

>> No.9131609

>>9123767
So 3D games look like shit, great.

>> No.9131646

>>9131609
What are some noteworthy 3D Saturn games other than NiGHTs?

>> No.9131740

>>9131646
Powerslave? Panzer Dragoon? Burning Rangers?

>> No.9131746

>>9131646
stellar assault ss

>> No.9131750

>>9130543
Are you?

>> No.9131752
File: 3 KB, 512x512, paper.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9131752

>>9123750
Just buy N64 for like 100 something bucks and knock off Everdrive for like 50.

>> No.9132854

>>9131752
3D games look like shit at 320x240, though.
Ys, even on CRT.

>> No.9133674

>>9123750
>shitty old phenom 2 x4 965 be processor
>4gb 1066mhz ddr2
>shitty Asus gt640 2gb graphics

Project 64 runs near perfect and upscaled. Maybe you need an updated version as your pc is overkill for older versions. Mines 1.6 and no issues with it at all, except the usual known ones for certain roms

>> No.9133727

>>9132854
just buy Super Mario 3D All-Stars for Nintendo Switch

>> No.9133741

>>9133674
Well, that's the rub, isn't it? The popular games (Mario, Zelda, the list goes on!) have basically always been playable with few issues. Step outside of that comfort zone, though, and you run into trouble. Hell, even several Rare games were known to be problematic and often required fiddling with shit or keeping around specific emulator versions and plugins just for those games.

>> No.9133761

>>9133741
>tfw no emulator runs Rocket Robot on Wheels without shitloads of visual glitches even after tinkering

>> No.9133821

>>9131646
Sonic R.

>> No.9134464

>>9132854
Picky ass.

>> No.9134748

>>9133741
I remember for years Pokemon Snap was effectively unplayable because the camera wouldn't detect when it was pointed at a Pokemon. It's crazy how bad n64 emulation was because people only played Mario and Zelda and assume it's fine.

>> No.9134779
File: 51 KB, 801x589, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9134779

>>9134748
Fun fact: Pokemon Snap also happens to be the only game with a graphical error still present in Angrylion, albeit a very minor one. Apparently it would take cycle accuracy to fix without resorting to a game-specific hack other plugins employ to fix it.

>> No.9134837

My biggest issue is that Turok 3 just isn't running correctly and it's two reasons:
1: if I turn on the frame-buffer emulation, there's too much input delay
2: if I turn off the frame-buffer emulation, the game is unplayable
I've tried the parallel in mupen, There needs to be a way to run the game in Run Ahead mode

>> No.9134874

>>9134837
There's other ways to reduce input lag. Have you tried frame delay and setting the max swapchain images setting to 2?

>> No.9135505

>>9134464
I grew up with N64. When I saw OOT running on GCN (WW bonus disc) and how much better it looked at 640x480i I was done with original hardware.

>> No.9135513
File: 358 KB, 600x711, fa2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9135513

>>9123750
>be me
>have shitty laptop issued for work
>1.2GHz dual core celeron processer
>4GB ram clocked at around 800MHz
>intel integrated family graphics
>can run N64 games on the web at a solid framerate with no sound stutter
>play in my spare time
You are just retarded OP

>> No.9135526

>>9135513
https://arcadespot.com/game/super-mario-64/

This is really impressive, gone are the days of downloading an emulator then finding a bios file then downloading a bunch of plugins then finding a ROM just to get shitty performance.

>> No.9135540

>>9124240
nobody says this

>> No.9135550

>>9135540
>ctrl+f "this"
>18 results in this thread alone
>not counting your post
retard

>> No.9135556

>>9131071
This!
And gliden64 even runs fine on Intel integrated graphics.
N64 emulation is almost perfect thse days IF you use the correct plugins.

>> No.9135868

>>9123750
why did you post your specs as if thats relevant to your issues
you brainlet

>> No.9135901

>>9123750
wanted to play banjo recently and made a quick google search and noticed most of the "good" emulators are either outdated or need very, very specific combinations of certain plugins and emulator versions and even then the games will run into the usual problems like graphical errors, hiccups, sound problems etc. its all so tiresome. I would rather not play at all than play like that.

>> No.9135938
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9135938

I just use Rosalie's Mupen Gui. I don't get why people are still throwing a bitch fit over N64 emulation. Also fuck retroarch, standalone's are great.

>> No.9136197

>>9135901
Newsflash: most of the information out there on N64 emulation is extremely outdated. I know it wasn't until pretty recently that N64 emulation actually got good, but it blows my mind that everyone seems to act like we're still in 2012 in this one regard. I sort of blame Project64 for this, since it took forever to fix many of its issues that Mupen had fixed ages ago, and if you look at comments from its contributors to this day, they still act like they're in a time bubble and actually reference emulators and plugins that haven't been relevant in a decade or more for some retarded reason.

>> No.9136223
File: 113 KB, 772x978, 6ij6y8678re.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9136223

>>9135938
I never get it either. The games never ran that well on real hardware. Never looked as good as people seem to think they looked.
>>9135868
Because idiots think modern hardware should run everything faster and brute force though problems the original hardware has. No game is made perfectly, Mario 64 itself has a shit load of bugs.

>> No.9136227

All i want is a MKB plugin for Shooters since N64 mouse was a thing

>> No.9136868

>>9123758
you say that like it should be any other way like what the fuck