/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9096057]

Reminder that Mega Man is canonically not a sentient being.

[Anonymous No.9096060]

Yeah, Rock isn't. But X is.

[Anonymous No.9096061]

and roll is made out of used vacuum parts

[Anonymous No.9096067]

So mega is the average Japanese salary man

[Anonymous No.9096075]

Also Dr light is a pedo and Dr wily is the real hero liberating lights sex slaves

[Anonymous No.9096089]

>>9096057
Neither is Roll but I would still fuck her regardless. I like to imagine her having warm, soft, human-like skin instead of being cold hard metal.

[Anonymous No.9096094]

Neat, so that means it's not rape when you have your way with them.

[Anonymous No.9096105]

>>9096057
I've always wondered how that was supposed to work when Rock's 'strong sense of justice' was what moved him to volunteer for combat conversion. Ultimately I feel like the most sensible thing would be to make X and beyond a separate canon from Classic, like BN and SF are. It would also mean they wouldn't have to officially address what happened to the missing characters.

[Anonymous No.9096112]

>>9096094
Did you just joke about rape? Fucking pig

[Anonymous No.9096198]

>>9096061
>Imagine the blowjobs.

[Anonymous No.9096207]

>>9096105
I think what they were trying to convey is that unlike the OG robots, X can't be reprogrammed like the way Wily stole the MM1 bots and made them do his bidding. What really screws this up though is the Maverick virus. Originally a maverick was just the name given for a reploid criminal. These reploids chose to rebel and so they're mavericks. But the idea was that it was their decision, not that they were reprogrammed. But then between X3 and X4 it became a virus that was infecting reploids and driving them crazy. So...reprogramming them...

It gets weird if you think too hard about it.

[Anonymous No.9096209]

>>9096198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2EMGmv0FqM

[Anonymous No.9096224]

>>9096089
Cease your pedofaggotry, Anon. Embrace big titty robots.

[Anonymous No.9096228]

>>9096224
>Big tits
Nah. Small and flat chested girls are the best.

[Anonymous No.9096249]

>>9096224
Alia doesn't get enough love. It's also nice to know their armor can come off.

[Anonymous No.9096314]

>>9096057
What's the deal with Proto Man's 'sentience' and Rock's "I AM MORE THAN A MACHINE"

[Anonymous No.9096321]

>>9096112
I wasn't speaking in jest, so no.

[Anonymous No.9096327]

>>9096228
Only people with tiny dicks prefer flat chested women.

[Anonymous No.9096329]

>>9096314
The master type robots had something resembling autonomy, and that retarded line was edgy localization.

[Anonymous No.9096349]

>>9096329
What was unique about Proto Man

[Anonymous No.9096361]

>>9096089
>I like to imagine her having warm, soft, human-like skin instead of being cold hard metal.
And you call yourself a robophile?

[Anonymous No.9096365]

>>9096057
Reminder that in ZX they're not all actually wearing sexy velvet skintight bodysuits underneath their clothes, the velvet is actually skin. The fetish this game gave me was a lie

[Anonymous No.9096385]

>>9096089
>human-like skin

What part of CLANG CLANG CLANG! did you not understand?

[Anonymous No.9096389]

>>9096349
Proto Man is a master, so long as they follow the 3 laws they can pretty much do as they please.

[Anonymous No.9096390]

I interpreted this to mean that nobody knew that Rock was sentient, or that this information was at least lost as time went on.

[Anonymous No.9096392]

>>9096327
Nah.

[Anonymous No.9096396]

>>9096361
The skin is probably like a silicone fuck doll, and solar or not their power supplies probably put out a decent amount of heat.

[Anonymous No.9096405]

[Anonymous No.9096406]

>>9096390
The warning was written by dr Light, bro. Rock didn't have 'true' free will as he was still bound by the laws of robotics.

[Anonymous No.9096410]

>>9096405

[Anonymous No.9096452]

>>9096405

[Anonymous No.9096480]

>>9096057
>X
>canon
>having anything to do with other series canon

[Anonymous No.9096553]

>>9096057
He's an extremely advanced form of A.I. programmed to be bound by the laws of robotics.
Over time his A.I. may have evolved into something Dr. Light could not entirely understand, thus it is up in the air whether he achieved sentience or not.

Dr. Light makes the subjective judgement that X is fully sentient and not bound by the laws of robotics. The warning that X is the first of a new generation could be taken to b a subjective opinion given how advanced robots had already become prior to X.

[Anonymous No.9096565]

>>9096553
There's an implication in the warning that Light was of the opinion that Rock never gained full sentience.

[Anonymous No.9096612]

I don't even understand the law of robotics as a concept. So you can't build a robot that would kill someone? Or it just the morality that Light specifically built into Rock's programming and it's a "law" in the sense that Rock can't deviate.

[Anonymous No.9096618]

>>9096612
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics
It's an old scifi concept trying to apply human ethics to robots, a lot of stories back then wind up dealing with the conflicts that arise within the laws themselves.

[Anonymous No.9096624]

>>9096057
The concept of sentience has never been consistent across the series.
>Protoman makes an informed descision that he doesn't want his core fixed because it would change who is he is and tells Light to fuck off
No error should give a robot that big of a concept of judgement.
>Bass rebelling against Wily
You could argue that Bass has a prototype AI for Zero's sentience but that throws X out of the loop.
Which brings us back to X, where does that leave Zero? How can you say for sure X came first? Wily was confirmed to be working on him in Power Fighters 2 and I may be wrong, but crazy Zero was discovered before X in a finished state too.

[Anonymous No.9096627]

>>9096618
Right but it has to be built into the robot's programming right? Like its not some universal law that all robots abide by just because they happen to be robots.

[Anonymous No.9096637]

>>9096624
X had to be discovered first because all reploids are based on his schematics. Them being imperfect copies and vulnerable to the maverick virus is a major plot point since Dr. Cain, being an archaeologist and not a robotics engineer, didn't fully understand Light's work. The big issue comes down to whether or not X would be vulnerable to the virus himself. It clearly robs reploids of their faculties just like Wily reprogramming Gutsman or whatever.

[Anonymous No.9096638]

>>9096627
That would be assumed, yeah. AFAIK robots in the original series never harmed a human, they just kinda did whatever evil shit Wily told them to.

[Anonymous No.9096642]

As someone who literally works on Mega Man related stuff for a living, my opinion is: who cares, nerd.

[Anonymous No.9096685]

>>9096105
Megaman autist here. The way I see it, classic era robots like Megaman have personalities but are still non sentient. Megaman's "sense of justice" is programmed into him, and can be changed via reprogramming him. Meanwhile, X's whiney pacifism is an integral part of his mind/soul. Also part of my head cannon is that despite having free will, reploids are by and large emotionally stunted, lacking the depth of thought that most humans have.

[Anonymous No.9096719]

>>9096207
Yeah, MMX is really poorly written with the exception of 1.

[Anonymous No.9096735]

>>9096685
That’s the “worrying core”, or whatever they called it, that’s been mentioned in later canon material (MHX, MMZ) as being the thing that makes X different from the reploids made after him, since they didn’t replicate that part. It makes him reflect and question himself as humans do, making him capable of changing his mind and alignments as he matures. It’s what makes him a pacifist in later games. It’s also what would’ve made him a villain in the early concepts of the Zero series. Not because he got a virus that changed his behavior, he just changed his mind over time. This concept was also mentioned for the new generation Reploids like Axl/Lumin (“becoming Maverick at will”), but I guess we’ll never know where they were going with that.

Now, where do regular old Reploids fall into? Considering they’re not programmed into a fixed ideology, as classic Robots were, but they’re not quite the reflective, autonomous mind X and new generations Reploid are? Can we even consider Reploids as one consistent “race”, and not just a sum of similarly-designed robots with a common source but unlimited variations? (Didn’t some X5/X6 “Mavericks” claim they rebelled without being infected by any virus?)

I don’t think there is a definite answer for that. The source material doesn’t define it consistently. Whatever explanation any of us come up with, it’s probably more thought out than whatever any of the writers of the games thought. Half of the series are cheap, rushed, partially outsourced products. There was no single vision for the series as a whole.

[Anonymous No.9096752]

>>9096637
>It clearly robs reploids of their faculties just like Wily reprogramming Gutsman or whatever.
I personally view the maverick virus as "breaking down" a reploid's reasoning/empathy/self control, like dementia, schizophrenia, psychosis etc.

[Anonymous No.9096753]

>>9096642
What do you do anon?

[Anonymous No.9096769]

>>9096753
Lie on /vr/, for the (You)s

[Anonymous No.9096771]

>>9096752
True. By that rationale humans can be "reprogrammed" too. It's chemical in our case rather than electronic but it's fundamentally the same thing.

X4's story is better than it's given credit for in this respect. It's hamfisted but it's a pretty solid allegory for the Red Scare or AIDS panic. Everyone is terrified of being accused of Maverick-like behavior and the humans are making the Maverick Hunters shoot first and ask questions later because of the fear. But the Hunters are afraid to question the orders because that itself would mean being accused of being Maverick.

[Anonymous No.9096791]

>>9096735
>Now, where do regular old Reploids fall into?
Most of them being psychopaths or otherwise mentally stunted by human standards. Magma Dragoon (acting by his free will at least in my head cannon) directly kills thousands by destroying sky lagoon and indirectly kills more, just because he wants to fight X/Zero to the death, without any thought given to the innocent victims. In the same game Colonel refuses X/Zero's reasonable request at the end of intro stage, even though getting the entire repliforce branded maverick is the logical conclusion of his actions. Humans are born and take years to grow up, acquiring wisdom, personalities, learning right from wrong etc. X was tested for decades. Most reploids AFAIK are just built and immediately assume their roles. Part of my head cannon is that most mavericks are the free will type and that everything after X5 isn't cannon, but that's just my childhood and adolescent mind trying to cover for shitty writing.

[Anonymous No.9096801]

>>9096057
But if megaman is an Asimov style robot then he probably can do things not expected of his programming and adapt to situations as long as he follows the orders light gives him. He is sentient just not human.

[Anonymous No.9096803]

>>9096638
>Ignoring the many opening cutscenes of Wily's robots blowing up building, presumed to be uninhabited
The assumption is that Wily rewrites the Laws in all his robots so that all mention of "human" is replaced only with "Wily".

[Anonymous No.9096804]

>>9096803
*presumed to be inhabited

[Anonymous No.9096814]

>>9096771
Fair enough, but even lobotomization isn't the equivalent of precisely rewriting your entire personality, like how Wily reprogrammed the Robot Masters in MM1.

[Anonymous No.9096817]

>>9096624
Reploids were already in production by the time Zero was found. The whole reason X1 starts is because Sigma fights him and gets infected.

[Anonymous No.9096840]

>>9096627
In Asimov's books the laws are imprinted deep in the basic architecture that all the robots share. So the villains will almost always try to subvert the laws instead of building robot brains from a new technology base, which presumably would be too much work.

[Anonymous No.9096853]

>>9096105
>I've always wondered how that was supposed to work when Rock's 'strong sense of justice' was
Light programmed Rock to behave in a righteous manner. When Rock saw that other robot masters were misbehaving due to Wily's antics, he asked Light to give him a weapon so he could perform justice, as it were. It sounds like an actual choice, but he was fated to make that request as his programming would reach that conclusion eventually.

X on the other hand understands that getting a gun and putting Mavericks down won't fix anything or bring dead innocents back to life, but it is the only way he can stave off the carnage in his post as a B-class hunter. The moment he gets a shot at actually governing people, like in Neo Arcadia, he immediately fixes the problem. He can't just pull out his Buster and tell everyone to shut the fuck up and do as he says because he knows it's not going to work, after all the Maverick Hunters swore by that modus operandi and the wars never stopped. He's basically robot Jesus held back by ranks and bureaucracy.

[Anonymous No.9096872]

>>9096057
Rockman can think but obeys Light's directives not any moral principle he worked out

[Anonymous No.9096889]

>>9096067
Nice one

[Anonymous No.9096893]

>>9096067
GET EQUIPPED WITH: Quarterly Report

[Anonymous No.9096930]

>>9096803
If we really want to split hairs, it can be argued that no humans were killed even in all that destruction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWUwzFpodiA
Obviously an extreme example, but it would be well within a robots capabilities to cause plenty of havoc without actually hurting anyone.

[Anonymous No.9096951]

>>9096753

Pay is great, but a lot of competition.

[Anonymous No.9096954]

>>9096769

Pay is great, but a lot of competition.

[Anonymous No.9096961]

>>9096930
Keiji Inafune didn't like thinking about robot masters hurting people, he must've been the guy who made sure it was kept ambiguous in every mainline game. The reason why protoman wears a helmet in MM3 was because he didn't want people thinking Rock was fighting a normal kid. He also felt like that one part in Super Rockman Adventure where Wily's machines shoot down a helicopter with two pilots in it was too dark for classic Mega Man iirc. I guess no one gets hurt for real in the classic series after all.

[Anonymous No.9096970]

>>9096961
Protoman always wears a helmet, he was just a master-tier sniper Joe. Do you mean the mask?

[Anonymous No.9096982]

>>9096970
I think he was referring specifically to these older designs. Found the original quote too...

[Anonymous No.9097127]

>>9096893
>Salary Man
>Weapon: Time extender
>Weakness: alcohol poisoning

[Anonymous No.9097135]

>>9096893
>be Salaryman
>sick of 16 hour days 6 days a week
>jump in front of train
>immediately spawn back at the office
>2 lives left

[Anonymous No.9097154]

>>9096361
Love me Bengus, simple as

[Anonymous No.9097165]

>>9096327
I prefer small, perky tits and a big fat ass, personally. What's wrong with that?

[Anonymous No.9097229]

>>9096624
Bass is programmed to beat Mega Man, do better than him, that’s it. If he comes to realize Wily is slowing him down or interfering, he has no issue going against him. It’s not his directive to obey him.

[Anonymous No.9097298]

>>9096112
No rope jokes?

[Anonymous No.9097335]

>>9096361
Based Kino Nishimura.
God bless that woman.

[Anonymous No.9097418]

>>9096057
>>9096801
He certainly has moments that show there is true sentience in him.
In both versions of Megaman 7 he was just about to blast Wily's skull off if it weren't for him being reminded of his programming
I wonder if he could've followed through with the action if that law was never presented to his consciousness in that moment or if his will could have overpowered it if his emotions were stronger in the instance

[Anonymous No.9097449]

>>9097418
It's like Pluto. A sufficiently advanced AI, capable of thought and feelding, experiencing overwhelming negative emotion won't be held back by the three laws.

[Anonymous No.9097620]

>>9096361
>Soul
>Soul
>Soul
>Soul
>Soul

>Soul
>Soul
>Soul
>Soul
>SOUL

[Anonymous No.9097621]

>>9096057
>>9096060
Actually, they both are. X was build using Megaman/Rockman as his core, Rockman was originally sentient and the information was kept under wraps. It was only post robot-apocalypse that this information was revealed to the public. By the reploid era ALL humans had cybernetic components and thus were much more accepting of sentient robots.

[Anonymous No.9097646]

Did Sigma decide humans are inferior, or was his behavior a result of Zero's infection?

[Anonymous No.9097672]

>>9096327
true

[Anonymous No.9097674]

>>9097621
X was built purely using Rock as a template, Rock's decisions is due to his programming allowing for a broad choice selection, "to help people". We see him in the JP Mega Man 7 going on a logic loop, he knows shooting Wily would mean saving people, but Wily is also people, so hurting him contradicts his program.

X would only have qualms because of his suffering circuit after 30 years of ethical tests. Zero has no such moral qualms, so killing Weil/Vile had no weight on him, as he was much more objective than X's moralistic attitude.

[Anonymous No.9097713]

>>9096061
>>9096089
I unironically prefer cartoon Roll to video game Roll. Nice grown body with boobs plus nice fluff hair.

[Anonymous No.9097714]

>>9097674
I keep hearing about the suffering circuit. Is that the W on Zero's head after he fights Sigma in the X4 flashback?

[Anonymous No.9097715]

>>9097646
The Maverick virus was the worst thing to happen to the lore
It's much more compelling and true the the original industrial relations theme if Sigma simply thinks humanity is inferior

[Anonymous No.9097742]

>>9097715
It just makes Vile that much cooler.
Still the only robot in history to go maverick of his own volition. No virus needed.

[Anonymous No.9097751]

Is Zero immune or not immune to the virus?

[Anonymous No.9097767]

>>9097674
>We see him in the JP Mega Man 7 going on a logic loop
This isn't all that clear. He just hesitates. He's doing the same thing Batman would do if he were about to kill the Joker and was reminded that Batman doesn't kill. There's really no evidence Mega Man wasn't physically capable of the action, just that Wily made a point that he wasn't willing to ignore. If Wily hadn't said anything he probably would have blasted him.

[Anonymous No.9097825]

>>9097646
I think it was both? He was doubting things before he's got infected but strong sense of duty and honor helped him to serve his mission. Then virus just messed up his thought processes, removed moral barriers and developed on obsessive thoughts.

[Anonymous No.9097847]

>>9097418

[Anonymous No.9097862]

>>9097847
I think you know this but this scene as a follow-up where it is heavily implied Data was about to kill him.

[Anonymous No.9097863]

>>9097847

[Anonymous No.9097942]

>>9097862
I was going to leave it all joined together but there's a 120 second limit on webbums, rip

[Anonymous No.9098047]

>>9096982
Oh nice, never saw this before.

[Anonymous No.9098053]

>>9097418
Going back to all the 3 laws bullshit, there is in some cases the 'zeroth law' which states that a robot must protect humanity above all. By the point of 7 Rock may have come to the conclusion that Wilys death would serve the greater good and thus allow him to be killed.

[Anonymous No.9098058]

>>9097751
Zero was the original carrier

[Anonymous No.9098062]

>>9096057
megaman series was never good.

[Anonymous No.9098074]

>>9096327
>>9097672
>[baseless headcanon]

[Anonymous No.9099009]

>>9097714
No, the W on Zero's helmet was the virus infecting Zero, but because Zero was already built to be, quote, "the baddest robot", the virus fucked with his program and made him good. Basically, the virus changes a robot's program/nature. Sigma was, allegedly, a pretty cool guy, and the virus made him a maniac (and even then, there's a good chunk of evidence the virus REPLACED Sigma altogether) while Zero went from an uncontrollable schizo into the Zero we know).
The Suffering Circuit is a part of X's electronic brain that allows him to philosophize to a human level, it makes him try to weigh what has more value, a reploid life or a human life, and to him both are on an equal ground, therefore has no definitive answer. This circuit needed programming though, hence the 30 years of tests to assess X's reliability. Zero has no Suffering Circuit or DNA Soul program like X or the other reploids, he still works off Robot Master technology, Zero's "DNA Sample" from X6 is an Integrated Circuit just like the MM1 bosses.

>>9097767
Dr. Light, on all regions of MMX's intro screen and manual states very clearly X is the "first robot capable of taking his own decisions on his own accord". Rock and company always worked off some prime directive while the whole point of X is that he has true free will. If X wasn't the first, the narrative falls apart. X isn't special and there was no need for reploids if Robot Masters already had free will. Dr. Light's life work has always been to give robots "a soul", Rock was close enough, but X was truly achieving it.

[Anonymous No.9099040]

>>9096057
If he's so strong that he's nigh unstoppable why the FUCK would you make him sentient?

[Anonymous No.9099136]

All this discussion...
Is Mega Man's story actually good? Never really got deep into the series before

[Anonymous No.9099168]

>>9099136
No. You play Mega Man for the platforming. The other games are nice, too.

[Anonymous No.9099184]

>>9099009
But the later X games, when it turns out Mavericks are all infected with a virus, makes them not have free will anyway. If the reason reploids rebel isn't because they want to but because something Wily did is screwing with their circuits then there's no functional difference. Wily did to Sigma pretty much the same thing he did to Gutsman.

[Anonymous No.9099218]

>>9099009
Then why isn't Zero the baddest robot in the Zero games? The Maverick virus is all gone

[Anonymous No.9099224]

>>9099136
Yes, but it doesn't really pick up till the X/Zero games

[Anonymous No.9099383]

>>9096057
>Hmmm maybe i should make replicas and robots based on that free will feat

[Anonymous No.9099386]

>>9099136
>Is Mega Man's story actually good?
Yes. There's been a bunch of threads about the series this year.

[Anonymous No.9099394]

>>9099040
>why the FUCK would you make him sentient?
Because if he wasn't, anyone would be able to control it. Mechaniloids (robots without sapience) are already susceptible to malfunction, sabotage and virus infection that could turn them violent, let alone Reploids. X's sapience is just so well-developed that it's nigh impervious to any of that.

[Anonymous No.9099397]

>>9099383
Historys greatest monster, I'm glad they assassinated him in MHX

[Anonymous No.9099401]

>>9099218
Zero's cognitive program in it's current status (i.e. "good Zero") was taken off Zero's original body to be studied by Ciel's grandmother. Weil handled Zero's body and ostentively discovered it's original intentions and program, hence "God of Destruction". The computers at Area X-2 in MMZ3 identify Omega/Zero as "Dr. W 0" so their origins are perfectly known by them.

>>9099184
MMX has their politics severily under-explored in the games themselves, locked behind a bunch of now-defunct game specific websites and Japanese books, and even then they're very undercooked, but basically the government has the narrative that reploids are "perfectly safe", "reploids can't harm people", "if they attack people, they're malfunctioning and must be retired". Cain supposedly introduced reploids under the same intentions Light had during his life, to be able to take decisions in situations a human wouldn't be there to make the choices for them, thus making them more efficient than mechaniloids. But clearly that doesn't work very well. X8 tried (and failed because Capcom Storytelling is always absolute bullshit in all their series) to make a point about the government narrative going against the reality of free will, freedom of choice and how reploids are second-rate citizens in the MMX society, slaved to their labor, many of them without a name (like Elpizo, who didn't had a name).

I forgot to whom, but Man-o-War in JP X8 does mention "I've not gone Irregular. I am not malfunctioning. I am perfectly aware of my actions", which I believe was also kept in the english translation. I think when he faces X.

>>9099386
It's good, but the execution is very flakey due to a lot of internal politics within Capcom to leave shit open enough for more and more sequels, and things never get fully resolved, or do off screen.