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/vr/ - Retro Games

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908764 No.908764 [Reply] [Original]

Why do retro games have to be so hard? I could play games for free for the rest of my life if I didn't suck so badly at these hard as Jesus games. How do you guys play some of them? Save states?

>> No.908780

>>908764
Which games are you talking about? Many old games are easy.

>> No.908789

>>908780
Almost all of them

>> No.908793

OP is 15 years old.

>> No.908794

>>908789
like?

>> No.908802

Get better at them.

>> No.908803

play on the original hardware so you can't use save states

>> No.908806

>>908789
Name a particular one if you want to talk about it, for chrissake.

>> No.908834

In general games were made harder for three reasons:

1: The developers got started in the arcade industry where harder games made more money

2: Games were short and often save-less due to technological restrictions. They had to be beatable within a single sitting. In order to make it feel like you got your money's worth, they made them impossible to beat it your first time.

3: The rental industry. They wanted to make sure you would re-rent it or buy it after renting, rather than renting it once, beating it, and never renting it again.

Since modern games are super long and developers are more experienced, these aren't really issues anymore. Now most games try to find a difficulty that is the most comfortable and fun difficulty for the average (i.e. somewhat casual) gamer. Personally I like my difficulties somewhere between current games and retro games. I like a challenge, but I want to be able to move forward in the game without committing the entire level to muscle memory.

>> No.908873

>How do you guys play some of them
By actually trying and not giving up after 20 minutes.

>> No.908889

Some games where trying to be easier in order to appeal to everyone yet would be considered hard today compared to their sequels. Example: Super Mario Bros.

Old games aren't hard. Newer games are just easier.

>>908764
>Save states
If you are just going to save state, what's the point? To see that awesome cinematic ending scene? There is nothing important to these games except the parts you are playing so why hurry things along by savestating. If it feels frustrating and you want to just quickly skip over to the next part it seems more like you just don't like the game. Maybe you should look for something else then?

>> No.908893

I know how you feel. I suck at super nintendo, but I play it anyway. I do okay at super street fighter, though. I can make it to Bison, then I get faced. SMW I can't even get passed the second castle.

>> No.908894

>>908793
25. You're off by a decade.

>>908806
Super Castlevania 4

>>908873
Poor assumption.

>>908834
Wow, an actual answer that isn't retarded bullshit!

>> No.908896

>>908894
>Poor assumption.
No, that's seriously how you beat these games. You just keep trying until you get it.

>> No.908897

>>908889
Yeah I beat a few games abusing states but it really killed it for me.

>> No.908906

And now you know the meaning of the term "Nintendo hard". Used when "hard as balls" isn't descriptive enough.

>> No.908910

To beat a nintendo game, you have to play it over and over and over. Like touhou.

>> No.908912

>>908894
>Wow, an actual answer that isn't retarded bullshit!

Never expect /vr/ to talk be reasonable and nice when you complain about difficulty. These are the people that claim that TMNT is a good game and have arguments where every Mega Man except their favorite was too easy.

>> No.908913

>>908906
What you call "Nintendo hard" predates Nintendo.

>> No.908914

>>908896
Assumption: I giving up after 20 minutes.

This is a poor assumption.

>> No.908919

>>908914
>what is hyperbole
Jesus you're retarded.

>> No.908928

>>908919
The ammount of stretching it takes to call that a hyperbole is hyperbolic in and of itself

>> No.908932

>>908928
So you don't know what hyperbole is then? Glad we got that settled.

>> No.908942

Some of us use save states but back in the day we had this other thing called skill, and a lot of time with just one game at a time to develop it.

That feeling of getting in the zone... Something new school gamers rarely enjoy.

>> No.908948

>>908942
>That feeling of getting in the zone... Something new school gamers rarely enjoy.
That feeling of finally getting farther than you ever have on a boss battle or what have you, and you feel your heart pounding and start getting excited and then you die and do worse than ever for half an hour.

>> No.908949

>>908932
Listening to you is a hyperBORE

>> No.908951

>>908889
Completely agree on save states. I use them to practice speedruns and that's literally it.

>> No.908952

>>908912
heh - yeah, that's us alright.

>> No.908953

>>908942
>skill
Repeating the same areas over and over and over until it's muscle memory is not skill

>> No.908958

>>908953
Wrong

>> No.908960

>>908953
I'm convinced the people who think the only thing involved in beating difficult games is "repeating the same areas over and over until it's muscle memory" have never actually beaten something difficult without cheating.

>> No.908962

>>908948
You made me think of Dark Souls first and Thunder Force 3second.

>> No.908964

>>908958
Afraid not
>>908960
But that is how older games work. You get so far, you get a game over screen, you start again at the beginning. Eventually you've played the beginning levels so much you have them memorized. That isn't skill.

>> No.908967

>>908960
what is mine cart sequences?

>> No.908976

>>908953
Actually, that's the exact definition of skill. It's not talent, but pure, pure skill.

>> No.908982

>>908932
The irony is almost painful.

>> No.908986

>>908964
>Muscle memory isn't skill
Olympic athletes would disagree with you.

Besides, muscle memory only does so much for you. Even Atari games have random elements and/or your muscle memory won't be so absolutely perfect that shit will unfold precisely the same way every time.

>> No.908987

>>908976
No

>> No.908991

>>908986
Let me know when video games are an olympic sport, champ

>> No.908992
File: 34 KB, 400x357, shrug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
908992

>>908987

>> No.908993

>>908991
You think you just made some sort of argument or something?

>> No.908995

>>908986
Unless you're Andrew Gardikis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_G-ErpZaFU

>> No.908996

>>908976
Not sure if that's the exact definition, but practice and getting something down to muscle memory is a big part of it.

>> No.909002

OP here... Just got back. So glad this thread went to shit. It wouldn't be /v/ without it

>> No.909004

>>909002
That guy wants to win at video games without having to learn how to play. Give him a break. We've all been there when we were eight.

>> No.909005

>>908960
You are wrong. You have to play it repeatedly in order to learn those skills, numbnuts.

>> No.909007

>>908993
The moment you try to compare a video game to a sport you've lost your argument
You tried your best

>> No.909010

>>909007
I didn't do anything o the sort, though.

You keep saying unrelated things. Get to the point. If you have a point.

>> No.909015

>>909010
>Olympic athletes would disagree with you.
You keep swingin' champ!

>> No.909020

>>909015
We were talking about acquiring skill. Nobody did compare video games and sports.

>> No.909021

>>909005
Key words in my post were "the only thing"

>> No.909023
File: 50 KB, 720x540, 1372017555703.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909023

>tfw you beat a game you couldn't as a child

I CAN DO ANYTHING

>> No.909024

>>909020
Because there is no comparison
Glad to see you realize that now

>> No.909026 [SPOILER] 
File: 31 KB, 248x215, 76456878647.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909026

Maybe OP

Maybe


You're bad at games

>> No.909034

>>909024
So get to the point. You're talking as if you're arguing, but you aren't.

>> No.909035

>>909026
It's possible, but I've beaten some hard as fuck games (non retro). Something about older games just makes so many of them painful.

>> No.909039

>>909035
>but I've beaten some hard as fuck games (non retro)
Like what?

>> No.909047

>>909034
There is no argument. You've been proven wrong.

>> No.909049

>>909047
Wrong of what? That acquiring skill requires repetition?

>> No.909051

>>909039
Ninja Gaiden Black

>> No.909054

>>909047
>>909049
Shut the fuck up.

>> No.909057

>>909051
If you can beat NGB, you can beat Castlevania or Contra or Mega Man just fine.

Which retro games are you having problems with?

>> No.909058

>>909054
Make us, goy.

>> No.909065

>>909057
I can't beat the first level of Contra, for example.

Children of the Atom has me making it to the second level at best.

>>909058
>"i want to stay retarded, shit up threads, and argue on the internet."

>> No.909078
File: 13 KB, 484x163, 2013-07-16 21:17:53.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909078

>>909065
You can't beat the first level of Contra? How is that possible? Are you sure you've got the controls set up right and such?

Also, pic related.

>> No.909081

>>909065
You say you can't beat the first level of Contra, then call other people retarded. Just saying.

>> No.909087

>>909078
Great shoop skillz brah.

>>909081
>arguing on the internet endlessly, off topic, shitting up a thread
>not retarded
>hur hur hur u cant beat a vidya gaem u r teh retard

Congratulations, numbnuts. Another thread ruined.

>> No.909094
File: 117 KB, 375x927, Screen Shot 2013-07-16 at 12.22.01 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909094

>>909047
>>909049

>> No.909096

>>909087
But the argument is on-topic. It's a thread about challenging games, and we're talking about challenge in games. How it's unclear to you that the subjects are related is beyond me.

Actually, you know what? I think you're the same person as the one arguing with me above. You sound exactly the same.

So, you played Contra, lost like a bitch, and became irate. Big fucking deal. Get lost.

>> No.909106

>>909065
For Contra, just get used to the controls for a bit. It really isn't that bad. I've was unable to make it past the first stage of the arcade version of Gradius III for about a week because I was so shitty at it. Now I'm peeking into the later stages without any deaths a lot of the time

I've never played CotA before, but you should probably learn some combos and stick with one or two characters at the most. Learn what each of your moves do and how to pull them off consistently, know when to defend so that you don't get hit by stuff that you shouldn't be getting hit by.

>> No.909134

>>908906
Always with the Nintendo Hard.
Nintendo Hard was easy mode compared to Arcade Hard.

>> No.909154

>>908834
oh yeah,
4: The target audience was kids with nothing better to do. Now target audiences are around 16-30, i.e: people with jobs and girlfriends. Modern games are made for people who don't want to sit in front of the tv alone all day.

>> No.909185

>>909057
I think OP probably is just having trouble thinking in two dimensions. I remember that I needed some serious practice to adapt my 2D skills to 3D when Crash came out. Something is just different about a 2D game and you need to embrace that if you're going to be able to go on past that.

And while I appreciate Anon picking up the torch for my argument on the definition of skill, I'm willing to get more back on topic because, after a little harassment, OP is exactly the type of new ma/vr/ick I like.

Still weird he can beat Ninja Gaiden Black but not the first stage of Contra though.

>> No.909201

>>908764

>Why do retro games have to be so hard?

It's a left over design from arcade games. Arcade games were designed to suck quarters out of kids. When games started making their way onto PCs and home consoles they took inspiration from old arcade games. At some point over the years developers decided that this was no longer necessary (and they wanted more people to play their games because that means more money) so they started making them easier. These days most games are designed to be beaten by anyone.

>> No.909210

>>909065
I'm usually a big believer in really working at something and honing your skills. But you're probably retarded and should just quit.

>> No.909216
File: 285 KB, 850x1097, Haunted-Castle-1987-Konam-Arcade-Flyer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909216

>>909134
Too many arcade games are just "how much does it cost me to beat it" which was a valid yardstick back in the day. Mame should have a "credits used" counter that's more prominent...

Then there's "three continues max" games like this motherfucker.

>> No.909226

>>908960

I've used the same argument before. I've been playing games since the 80s.

>> No.909241

>>909226
So what do you think skill is?

>> No.909247

They're not all hard.
Some NES games are full of absolute bullshit, so if that's what you're getting screwed on, get a SNES or genesis/mega drive. Search out games that have a good balance of challenge and accessability, etc Dont go playing ninja gaiden or metroid and expect to be good right away, old games take practice.
If you want to enjoy an NES game a bit more casually you -can- use cheats (like the 30 lives code in contra, though that can ruin the fun for me, and probably a lot of people here, but hey it's an option)

>> No.909248

>>908764
Out of curiosity, is your pic from a game in particular? Or just a random cool looking picture?

>> No.909250

>>908949
5* post

>> No.909357

>>908913

As if we knew anything predated Nintendo when we were playing the NES.

>> No.909360

It depends on the game really.

Megaman for example, I can't fucking play with a keyboard at all, so I'm forced to use Savestates, on the old NES ones at least.

But I had old ass NES Ninja Gaiden, and while it was hard, I didn't have to use Savestates or anything, same with Contra.

>> No.909370

>>909360

Why don't you use a controller for Mega Man?

>> No.909389

>>908764
Considering the direction of the thread I think the OP is b8, but, in case you're serious, practice. Play the game over and over until you get used to the controls. If you had watched me play the first Castlevania for the first time (last month, I should add, not as a kid) and get repeatedly fucked up by knockback on the second level, you'd think I was retarded. But, I played it, got better at controlling and dodging, and got past it. It wasn't until getting to the final level and Dracula that I had to give up and use states.

>> No.909405

>>909370
It's like there are people who don't know you can use a game controller on their PC. Or maybe don't want to be seen as a "gamer"?

>> No.909409

>>909248
It's a painting by Mort Kunstler.

Here's a bunch of others!

http://houseofretro.com/index.php/2013/03/22/mort-kunstler-guns-gals-gung-ho/

>> No.909410

>>909405

>Or maybe don't want to be seen as a "gamer"?

Wouldn't surprise me, there are a lot of people on 4chan terrified at the thought of people knowing they play games, that's why they'll refuse to wear a shirt or a hat that it obviously gaming related and just start yelling about how adult they are.

>> No.909419

>>909405
Or, they know but don't own a compatible controller either because 2poor or laziness.

Not him, but I'm in the former camp. The only controller I have that can be used is a PS3 controller, and I tried but I couldn't get that MotioninJoy shit to work.

>> No.909438

>>908764
They aren't hard, it's you who is soft

>> No.909487

whats the point of playing if its not hard?

why bother having any strategy if you can get by making crap descisions?

why bother making a twitchy, fast action game if you dont need to actually react fast?

why bother having exploring if the 'secrets' are in plain site or the game is so easy you dont even need to collect the secrets?

>> No.909503

>>909487

To be fair, there's a difference in being challenging and being ballbustingly hard to the point of frustration. JP Battletoads vs. USA Battletoads is a good example of that difference, or JP Mad City vs. USA Bayou Billy. And a lot of retro games fall squarely in the second category because of the old arcade mindset and the programmers/testers being experienced gamers.

Although I can't comprehend how somebody can not beat the first level of Contra. I mean, come on.

>> No.909510
File: 60 KB, 800x600, 1363924373934.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909510

>>909419
>2poor
>ps3 controller
mfw you could trade that ps3 controller for five pc controllers

>> No.909571

>>909409
Thanks man! Loving the shit out of these!

>> No.909579

No one gave a shit about fairness and balance back then.

Also often it's just bad game design.

>> No.909586

>>909216

You can check the game's built in audit and see how many credits you've used during any given day.

>> No.909593
File: 223 KB, 472x500, 1260983623286.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
909593

>How do you guys play some of them? Save states?
Practice, practice, practice and practice again.
Unless you have a natural talent, you're not gonna get anywhere in life unless you practice on the things you want to become good at.
I for example do not think of myself as a skilled gamer but the other day I managed to beat Ninja Gaiden in my first sitting all because I kept at it no matter how often I game overed.
I also never use save-states unless I'm trying to learn an extremely hard part in a game (like for example the second-form of the final boss in Ninja Gaiden but after I learned how to beat him I killed myself so I could beat it fair).
Its mostly up to how dedicated you are at beating a game. When growing up my older brothers would ridicule me and say that I didn't beat the game fair if I ever used anything for assistance (cheat-codes, guides, hints and tips from magazines, you name it).
One day I was playing Gun.Smoke and decided to look up where all the wanted posters were and my brother saw me, looked me in the eyes and said: "What are you some kind of pussy, looking up help for the game, you might as well have someone else play it for you if you ain't gonna beat it fair and square."
Even to this day I feel wrong if I any outside assistance when beating a game.

TL;DR: If you suck at video games all you need is willingness and dedication and you'll be able to beat most games.

>> No.911831

Git gud faggot.

>> No.911834

>>909593
what a waste of time.

>> No.911835
File: 324 KB, 500x1967, why retro games are hard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
911835

>100 posts
>no pic related

>> No.911842

>>911834
>Waste of time
Then why are you playing video games
Phaggot

>> No.911843
File: 8 KB, 320x240, asnaninja.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
911843

>>908953

My art teacher in college who was also a gold medal winning Olympic athlete would disagree with you. Anything you see is talent is probably a skill. Art, fencing, getting women to sleep with you, political dealings, and comedy are just a matter of practice.

Just because you've never had the discipline to practice anything you don't need to shit on those who do.

>> No.911850

>>911843

As someone who is not very talented at a lot of things I have to pitch and say its true, getting good at anything requires repetition and repeating certain things many times until you get it down. This is true for anything no matter how significant or not.

>> No.911867
File: 35 KB, 350x245, Playa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
911867

>>911850

I'm only good at games because I've been playing them since I was 3 on the TI-99 home computer. The teacher I referenced managed to teach me how to be a competent swordsman and artist within two years.

My psychology professor's mentor said "Everyone has the capacity of genius". Anyone who isn't a genius is therefore lazy or disabled. Hell, he even managed to prove you can raise the IQ of the mentally challenged through lateral thinking exercises by 20 points on average.

>> No.911875

>>911835
>those simpsons eyes

>> No.911896

>>911843
>ask a ninja

What's your relationship with gravity?

>> No.911907

OP, to get good you have to keep at it, that's all part of the fun that many new games are missing, though new games can still have their own brand of fun. You will never improve using save states, as a matter of fact, you shouldn't be using save states at all unless it's a game that uses a password save system or you need to take a break.

>> No.911909

>>911907

Eh, I like to keep save states on a per-stage basis simply as a backup in case my emulator crashes. Started doing that after my emulator crashed while I was playing Mega Man and I was right before Wily, forcing me to go through the entire game again. Annoying.

>> No.912012
File: 17 KB, 512x448, neat.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
912012

>>908764
There's not a single game I've picked up and not finished in an afternoon. Holy Diver doesn't count. Then again I'm a former speedrunner.

>> No.912029

Same OP. I'm 19 and decided to start playing various game series by release that I grew up with (so lots of stuff from the N64/PS1 that started one or two gens prior) and fuck is it tough. Currently stuck on level 3 in LoZ. So yeah, as you can see I'm pretty fucking awful.

>> No.912248

>>912012
how do you manage that?
is there some mental technique to stay focused and learn quicker or do you just have lightning fingers?

>> No.912278

>>912248

>some sort of mental technique to stay focused and learn quicker

It's called not being retarded.

>> No.912293
File: 67 KB, 151x151, 1304901265947.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
912293

It's simple. Get better at them. Play them over and over until you get good at the game(s).

Pretty much all NES and old arcade games are pattern based anyway so you get rewarded for repetition and acquiring more and more knowledge of the levels and enemy patterns. The average person nowadays doesn't have the patience for shit like this anymore so games nowadays are made easy as hell with tons of hand-holding to compensate for the average video game consumer.

>> No.912309
File: 72 KB, 450x373, W6lOnScQH96.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
912309

get out of my /vr/ fucking casual fag
>>908764

>> No.912730

Holy fuck OP, you are making video games into something more complicated than what they are. They're supposed to be fun

just play it and keep your bitch tits under control, and remember that nobody is good at something the first time.

>> No.912731

>>911909
>in case my emulator crashes

Emulators haven't done that in ages, at least for me

Forget savestates

>> No.912987

Well if you grew up in that era it takes years of practice. i can't speak for everybody. but there were games i can fly through now as a adult. That i couldn't as a kid..

>> No.913010
File: 66 KB, 675x663, 1360846968298.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
913010

Unless you're some kind of hardcore emulation nerd the only reason you should be using savestates is to pause the game through a system shutdown. If you get a game over there's really no reason whatsoever to continue playing that illegitimate file (except if you're just playing for the story or gathering esoteric information about the game).

>> No.913024
File: 59 KB, 171x151, boulder.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
913024

oh god... why is this thread still up?
and why are people actually responding to it?

>> No.914593

>>912248
Disregard >>912278 and assume the attitude that video games are a sport. You have to warm up and prepare yourself for quick sequences of button presses instead of relaxing. Understanding how games are programmed also helps. My first touch with programming was debugging and disassembling old video games.

>> No.915764

>>911835

This, I was hoping someone had posted this, not too happy that it's so late int he thread.

But this is why.

>> No.915818
File: 53 KB, 460x630, aVzALDy_460s_v1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
915818

>>908894
>Castlevania 4
>Easiest classic style castlevania
Do you shit your own pants as well?

>> No.915834

>>911896
It's complicated

>> No.915835

>>915818
You think CV4 is hard? You fuckin jontron n64 kids will be the death of me

>> No.915880
File: 70 KB, 243x200, 1373748829090.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
915880

>>915835
>EASIEST classic style castlevania
>Hurr durr u tink cv4 hard? I mad
Nigger, I don´t know if you´re bonged, wasted or plain tired, but you CLEARLY DON´T KNOW how to fucking READ!

>> No.915902

>>915880
I'm not who you're replying to but it's because you (or that poster) misused greentext

>> No.915915

>>915880
You tell me what he means by that post then anon? I think you need to learn to read because you got tired and gave up after 2 lines.

>> No.915929

>>915915
What he meant was "Super Castlevania 4 is the easiest classic Castlevania game and you think it's too difficult so you must be a tiny child"

What you, or the people misinterpreting his misused greentext think he means is "You're implying that Super Castlevania 4 is the easiest classic Castlevania so you must be retarded"

Some people use greentext like bullet points, others automatically assume it is always a quotation - especially a sarcastic "implying" interpretation. Probably because quoting someone's post you're replying to is automatically greentext.

THE MORE YOU KNOW

>> No.915940

>>915929
except that dumbass fucked up his green text because the person originally was saying SC4 was hard. Its not reading thats the problem here retard. He fucked up his green text thats why that post makes no sense.

>> No.915951

>>915940
Yes, that was what I meant when I said "you (or he) misused greentext" although as I also said, some people use greentext as bullet points i.e. "the greentext story"

But sure, I'll be retarded if that makes you feel better.

>> No.915958

>>915951
if it was supposed to be bullet points
> Super Castlevania 4
> Hard
lel

he really fucked that one up

>> No.915995

>>908932
>>908928
>>908919
>>908914
You guys are some serious Fagolies

>> No.916008

>>915958
That would have been the more 4chan standard format, yes.

He needs to remember that, unless telling a greentext story, greentext is going to be read as "implying" even if you don't say or even mean "implying" and greentext stories aren't usually in reply to another post (exception, cot'd)

>> No.916024
File: 90 KB, 405x412, pleasedloli.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
916024

>>908764
Save states are for pussies, just don't use them.

I'm pretty bad at videogames, myself, but that huge satisfaction on overcoming hard challenges is what keeps me going.

>> No.916124

To beat difficult games, I play them more.
Simple as that.

>> No.916138

>>908906
But Nintendo games are pretty easy?
Besides obvious ones like SMB2, of course.

>> No.916557

>>911835
This makes me laugh so much. Arino plays games all the time and he still suck at them. XD

>> No.916563

i played jrpgs and other strategy type games for the majority of my childhood because i wasnt the best at platformers. it wasnt until like 7th grade i actually started to play them more. i sucked at them and would give up pretty early but there were the select few games that were easy to beat. kirby games and the sonic adventure battle games are the easy to beat "platformers" that after playing them so much i got better. i soon played some other metroidvania and platformers and got better with reaction times and what not and started to be able to beat games like nes mario titles and 2d sonic games. now im playing speed runs and minimalist run through's of games i once thought were impossible.

>> No.916570

If it's more fun that way, just use save states. You don't have to be the proest of pros at every game to enjoy them; life is too short for that, especially if you have a triple digit backlog and actual other hobbies.

>> No.917148

>>916570
god damn I feel sorry for you

once you play a really hard action game and manage to beat it without using save states the sensation is so damn good

you get so involved with the game and you understand on such a deep level playing it is like going into a state of zen.

you dont watch a good movie by setting your media-player to go 25% faster so you can 'go through it faster'

you dont speed-read through a good book, you do it at a gradual pace

you dont appreciate a good drawing by looking at it for a fraction of a second