Party Composition

[Anonymous No.9066931]

Am I the only one who dislikes playing a full-complement well-rounded party? And I mean in every game that allows you to create your own. Not as extreme as bals to the wall, but I usually play without a mage/wizard. This is why I hate if the game penalizes or even hardlocks you for not having a certain class in your party. One example is in FF3 where you had to go with an all-magic team to pass a certain boss, even though the game allows you to change class at will. Also I used the image and example of JRPGs, but this would apply more on WRPGs like Wizardry or Might and Magic, and especially DnD ones which often penalizes you heavily for not having a wizard/thief in your party.

Anyway, for those who do, post your default party.
Mine would be Paladin - Fighter - Barbarian - Rogue.

[Anonymous No.9067154]

Whether or not magic is “strong” or “weak” I just find it fun
RDM is a must
My favorite is “red death”, 2 Red Mage and 2 Warrior
I also like warrior pimp and mage hos (WAR RDM WHM BLM)
My latest is RDM WAR MNK THF

[Anonymous No.9067160]

I could NOT play FF1 without a black mage just because they can dispose of big hordes of enemies quickly. Without a black mage you sure must have a lot of spending your time paralyzed by hordes of mere zombies that a BM would have OHKO'd on the first turn.

[Anonymous No.9067219]

i still prefer WM+BM combo to red mages. Red mages always just seemed kinda gay. It's no fun when the coolest biggest spells are locked off (even if top tier white magic in FF1 isn't all that great)

[Anonymous No.9067225]

>>9066931
>I usually play without a mage/wizard
>This is why I hate if the game penalizes or even hardlocks

You are a fucking cretin.

Basically you said "personally I prefer to play fighting games without using supers I want to just do combos, and I hate if the game is more hard for playing that way that I decided to play, a game shouldn't penalize me no matter how I decide to play it. Therefore if I decide to beat mario 64 without jumping in the game shouldn't be more hard that way"

The whole point of beating a game without doing something and the fun of it, is the challenge that it supposes the same. If you in an RPG of any kind, make a party that you KNOW IS BAD, the point of it is the challenge of beating the game that way which is more harder than a normal playthrough. And don't answer me "how am I supposed to know that my party is going to be bad for not having mages", that's just common sense, it's like if you ask me how are you supposed to know that it's a bad idea to beat pokémon with a team of 6 Rattata, the game isn't penalizing you for using 6 identical mons, you are the one who decided to beat the game using 6 shitmons, and the reason the game gives you the option to do so, is because if you wanna to accept the challenge of beating the game that way, not that the game should adapt and be easy regardless of how you decided to play it.

Are there RPGs that you can play without major problems with any type of party? Yes, but that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, that is more related to the approach of the game. JRPGs tend to focus more on a continuous succession of fights and how does your party survive after going through that, ergo, it's a situation where Mages are vital. They are like a Beat 'em up.

While many WRPGs focus on giving you an environment with multiple solutions to solve each problem, being able to resolve events even peacefully, because the focus is on using the tools you have to find a solution, not surviving.

(1/2)

[Anonymous No.9067235]

>>9066931
What, exactly, do you think the term "hardlock" means?

[Anonymous No.9067236]

>>9067225
(2/2)

It's like when you play two different fighting games and it turns out that the same character archetype is shit in one game and good in the other game, that's a result of both games focusing on something different, which has nothing to do with the quality of the game. SF2 is about spamming attacks until your opponent can't escape, while SF3 3rd strike is about not being predictable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_0_6NjwrYY

[Anonymous No.9067264]

>>9067225
Calm your tits, dude, I'm talking about arbitrary penalties that the game imposes which disregards the game's mechanics. Like I gave you the example of FF3, in case you didn't know there's a dungeon where you NEED to have the spell that turns you small, otherwise you simply can't proceed, there is no other way. It's not about tackling a challenge within the game's parameters, it's when the game itself checks you up and decides to throw you off the cliff just because you didn't wear a skirt.
And in the WRPG I said penalizing "heavily". I don't mind harder stuff, that's expected, but when the game simply locks you out a certain ending, for example without giving you a chance to overcome it in any other way, that's my beef. Let's use your fighting game example, if there's a bad character that's much harder to use and win, but the game simply decided to not let you fight and kick you back to the main menu.

[Anonymous No.9067267]

>>9066931
>This is why I hate if the game penalizes or even hardlocks you for not having a certain class in your party.
I can agree with the hardlock part. If you allow the player to choose the composition of the team, then hardlock the player for not choosing a cookie-cutter balanced party, then why bother giving the choice in the first place? Might as well just go the FF4 route and decide for the player what characters they need. No point in giving only the illusion of choice. FF5 and DQ3 are good examples of getting it right, since you can beat the game with just about any party you can create.

>>9067225
>>9067236
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!
There, I managed to get your message across without a wall of text. You're welcome.

[Anonymous No.9067275]

>>9067267
What, exactly, do you think the term "hardlock" means?

[Anonymous No.9067278]

>>9066931
I think its fine when games throw you a curveball as long as adapting to it isn't too tedious, adds a bit of variety. The FF3 example isn't too bad because of how lenient its job change system is.
The more glaring FF example I can think of is FF2, because as the game goes on, high DEF builds become progressively worse and you have to do a buttload of grinding to change builds

[Anonymous No.9067281]

>>9067267
>There, I managed to get your message across without a wall of text. You're welcome.

You must have reading comprehension problems, because I never talk about 'liking' things, I talked about game design.

>>9067264
The word you were looking for was 'softlock' not hardlock. I literally can't think of a single example of an RPG where this happens besides FF3.

[Anonymous No.9067283]

>>9067278
That being said that isn't really hardlocking I guess, just the game being balanced in a kinda odd way (since in 90% of other RPGs you always wanna use the armor with the biggest numbers)

[Anonymous No.9067285]

ITT

[Anonymous No.9067287]

>>9067281
Yeah I probably didn't convey my thoughts properly. I just want to talk about non cookie-cutter party/builds in games where you can. The hardlock/softlock thing is mostly a personal grievance.

[Anonymous No.9067297]

>>9067281
>I literally can't think of a single example of an RPG where this happens besides FF3.
You must not play many RPGs outside of consoles then. You can't beat Might and Magic 2 without a Cleric, since you can't free Crovak's soul without one.

>>9067275
Prevents all progress forwards, to the point where a player can't complete the game with the given party no matter how much they grind. What do you think it means?

[Anonymous No.9067301]

>>9067225
in the Pokemon example, I think you will need to have mons that can use certain HMs.

[Anonymous No.9067303]

>>9067287
Typically, the word "softlock" is used for when in a game you put yourself in a state where it's impossible to keep going because the game won't let you do a certain thing. While "hardlock" is used when you get to a state where the game forces you to beat it on harder mode (A good example of this is when in La-Mulana you can unlock hard mode by accident, which is the game literally trolling you) .

And a different concept is that the game is poorly balanced. In FF2 Swords are ridiculously powerful and better than all other weapons, making it your best decision to always have a sword-wielding character on your team.

[Anonymous No.9067304]

I like suboptimal/"because I can" parties. Builds, even. Especially when it comes to things like elements or status effects, I hate having to pick the "best" effects to get through all the content, I like just being bullheaded fire-element characters strongarming my way through things even if it ends up being a bad choice for some dungeons.

[Anonymous No.9067310]

>>9067297
What you described is called a softlock.
Additionally, I suspect most cases where you think this is occurring are not, in fact, softlocks. They are just the game being very difficult. If the game truly, physically prevents you from completing it due to a missing ability, no matter what RNG manipulation you engage in, then yes, that's a softlock. If it's just extremely difficult without perfect 1 in a 1000 dice rolls, it isn't.

[Anonymous No.9067319]

>>9067297
>You can't beat Might and Magic 2 without a Cleric, since you can't free Crovak's soul without one.
and here I was about to say I like Might and Magic series because 6/7/8 gives you extreme freedom in your party choice, with potions scrolls and even retainers to help with missing skills which mostly are just quality of life improvements anyway.

[Anonymous No.9067429]

autism thread

[Anonymous No.9067437]

>OP uses the word 'hardlock' instead of 'softlock' by mistake
>Thread goes apeshit

My god I fucking hate semantics

[Anonymous No.9067443]

>>9067437
Chill with the anti semanticsism

[Anonymous No.9067468]

>>9067443

[Anonymous No.9067478]

>>9067443
I LOSS

[Anonymous No.9067487]

For FF1, the first combo I beat the game with I did:

> FITO - Fighter
> WITO - White Mage
> BUTS - Black Mage
> DINK - Thief

Was pretty fun and they learnt cool spells. The thief felt relatively useless for the first half though. I replayed with a redmage and I enjoyed it more. On my first attemps I did stupid combos like 4 fighters and didn't finish. It's just more fun with a mix.

> hard hitting question: whats your dudes 4 character names??

[Anonymous No.9067490]

X-men legends lets you make bridges with specific characters like iceman. For shortcuts or sometimes the only way to continue.

Fucking Iceman.

[Anonymous No.9067503]

>>9067487
>fah
>gotz
>ghet
>shot

[Anonymous No.9067538]

>>9066931
I try to use a very sustainable/self-reliant team, favoring defense, healing and buffs over attack, debuffs and item using, which puts me in bad situations at times.
In a party of four I would put two attackers and two healers, having one of each dedicated to one class and the other two using a mixed one or multiclassing (think, for example, how in most games a Paladin or a Cleric can be on the front row attacking while having healing capabilities), even using the fourth slot for any other class.
>Fighter - Cleric - Paladin/another Cleric - Rogue or other.
I think my all favorite class is the typical monk from Square games: great physical attack, especially with no weapons but fists and kicks, usually a self-healing skill like Chakra and other exotic abilities.

[Anonymous No.9067539]

>>9067285
fuck you, frogs know how to jump and they're cute
should've been like, a chameleon or something

[Anonymous No.9067559]

>>9067443

[Anonymous No.9067592]

I wish there were more JRPGS where you get to assemble your party like FF1. Like you're just playing DnD. Were there any others like it that I'm unaware of?

As for OP, my most recent playthrough of FF1, I just randomized my team and got 2 Red Mages, a Thief, and a White Mage. It's fun to just roll with what I get and see if I can beat it. Reminds me of randomizers. Those are cool.

[Anonymous No.9067634]

>>9067592
FF3 had 4 generic player-named characters with job changing, though it's not quite the same as having to stick with your decisions from the start.

Ironically the first Etrian Odyssey, a retro-style throwback to simpler, classic games like Wizardry, now qualifies as /vr/ by sticky rules, and lets you form a party of members with set classes. Although you can still create a full "guild" of them and swap members in and out of your party in town if you want.

[Anonymous No.9067954]

>>9067297
>Prevents all progress forwards, to the point where a player can't complete the game with the given party no matter how much they grind. What do you think it means?
That's the textbook definition of a softlock: being trapped in a box (the entire world can effectively be a box) with the game thinking everything is fine and playable, letting you pace back and forth and interact with everything in the box like normal, but you can't actually escape and progress.

A hardlock is when a game gets stuck via a crash or freeze, rendered completely unplayable.

[Anonymous No.9068883]

>>9067468
The great thing about /vr/ is...

[Anonymous No.9069159]

>>9068883
...n't beating the games, it's telling everyone on the board that I used savestates.

[Anonymous No.9069186]

>>9067160
Bruh. Just hold a and hit the frame skip key. Zombies dead instantly.

[Anonymous No.9069235]

I like to recruit Dogmeat, K9, Pariah Dog and Robodog in Fallout 2.

[Anonymous No.9069269]

The only version of FF1 I’ve played to completion is the GBA version, so I’m sure my experience of what’s fun and isn’t is drastically different than the NES version of the game due to glitches balancing differences etc.
FF1 GBA is really easy and doesn’t punish you much for going without mages. The first party I ever did was fighter, red mage, white mage, black mage, but I found late game offensive magic to be pretty underwhelming in the version I played. So on later playthroughs I experimented with the physical classes and a single white mage, and ultimately settled on Fighter, White Mage, and two Monks (Black Belts). Three damage dealers, only one of which needs much money spent in the way of equipment throughout the game. The monks dominate the early and mid game while the fighter/knight dominates the end game, but all are sufficient damage dealers throughout the entire game, and certainly more useful than black and red wizards are.

[Anonymous No.9069308]

>>9067225
Holy shit the sheer autism that you needed 2 posts to be this mad about this. Go outside.

[Anonymous No.9069328]

>>9069186
Imagine having only played a version that came out after the 90's and thinking you can give advice

[Anonymous No.9069608]

>>9067225
i read most of that and just want to say fuk u

[Anonymous No.9071147]

>>9069235
based dog lover

[Anonymous No.9071216]

>>9066931
Best parties are 2 fighters and 2 red mages.
Speed runners can also make 2 fighter, 1 red mage and 1 black mage viable.

My favorite is Fighter, Thief, Red Mage and Black Mage.