/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.9023173]

Why are emulator inputs always so wonky? Even when I hook up a controller to the PC and put all the inputs for it in the setup, it always seems fuck up. Won't let me do slide moves in Super Mario Bros, makes walking in Legend of Zelda janky and unresponsive, and makes a lot of harder games that require more precise inputs almost unplayable.
Can it be fixed?

[Anonymous No.9023181]

>>9023173
>It's not my fault, it's the emulator !

gid gud.

[Anonymous No.9023221]

>>9023173
It's hard to get precise control because a modern PC has a lot of processes going on that can interrupt the emulator at any moment. Ironically you would get better results by re-coding a NES game from scratch to run natively on the PC.

[Anonymous No.9023226]

>>9023173
It's input lag and is generally unavoidable with emulation. You can fake an improvement with so-called "runahead", but it breaks some games and at a technical level is just using a bunch of save states real fast, so it breaks RNG and generally makes for a rather inaccurate experience. Real hardware (or even cheap hardware clones) on a decent LCD monitor, through a scaler, or better yet on a CRT will have better input responsiveness than even the very best emulation setup. Emulation-anons may reply to this post attempting to dispute these facts, do not believe their lies.

[Anonymous No.9023245]

>>9023173
If you're not trolling then your set up is probably shit. Shitty monitor, processes running in the background, shitty controller, etc. Really can't say without you giving more info.
>9023226
Maybe one day someone will cite an example of a game that supposedly breaks with runahead.

[Anonymous No.9023257]

>>9023173
you are not wrong
however you can fix your setup to be a bit better

240hz 1ms gaming monitor
excess amount of RAM
adjust software settings
use better usb devices (raphnet)

its not that bad
i use finalburnneo all the time for verification purposes against my arcade pcbs im field-testing

[Anonymous No.9023375]

>>9023226
>it breaks RNG
Are there any examples where this actually has a noticeable effect?

[Anonymous No.9023470]

Not my problem.

[Anonymous No.9023472]

>>9023173
It's because u don't know wat u doing bruh

[Anonymous No.9023483]

Yeah man, it's the controls. Not your fault. And if you are playing on real hardware then it's input lag and TV's fault

[Anonymous No.9023491]

>>9023221
Nigga close yo browser close BitTorrent set yo discord to do not disturb and Ur good

[Anonymous No.9023548]

>>9023181
>>9023483
a simple slide move in super mario bros requires virtually no skill, just run and press down. i've done it countless times on the original NES, and on the NES classic.
i get this is /vr/ but it's clear something beyond skill is impacting the ability to input such a simple command.

[Anonymous No.9023560]

>>9023375
Not him but I guess it could make certain speedruns that rely on RNG manipulation impossible. But you're either a) doing those on real hardware or b) are TASing and can just use other emulator tools to compensate.

[Anonymous No.9023586]

>>9023560
>speedruns
That reminds me, current SMB1 WR is held by a guy who played using some shitty keyboard and Nestopia. OP literally has no excuse

[Anonymous No.9023609]

>>9023586
Pffft, not even using Mesen, huh? I want some joker to top the world record with Nesticle, one day.
People say music games are unplayable without CRT + real hardware but I managed to beat all the Parappa games on a PS4 + LCD. Unless you're using a real shitty set up (or are a Meleefag playing irl) I think it's all about just adapting to different timings.

[Anonymous No.9023663]

Input lag. Your emulator and monitor mostly affect how much lag you'll get. I can't say anything about USB controllers personally since I don't use them for emulation. If you post what you have, someone here might figure out how to fix it.

[Anonymous No.9023694]

>>9023173
>Won't let me do slide moves in Super Mario Bros
Sounds like you're a fucking retard who can't set up a basic NES emulator. The current world record was performed on an emulator, there is nothing wrong with NES emulation
https://youtu.be/aukKeS8LdDI

[Anonymous No.9023994]

>>9023694
>using a keyboard
>didn't do a slide move
ok

[Anonymous No.9024027]

>>9023694
Genuine question, why is emulation allowed for world records? That's not the case with other games, why this one?

[Anonymous No.9024028]

>>9023994
>no argument
>OP still a retard

[Anonymous No.9024047]

>>9024027
NES emulation is like 99% cycle accurate. There is no benefit or disadvantage to using an emulator over CRT. SMB also works on frame rule timing

[Anonymous No.9024052]

>>9024047
*over CRT and Console

[Anonymous No.9024058]

>>9024047
Isn't the Tetris world championship done on real NESs?

[Anonymous No.9024107]

>>9024058
That's different, a pvp tournament not a Speedrun. Also they run a romhack and not the original NES Tetris

[Anonymous No.9024128]

>>9023173
Emulators are just to see what game is worth buying

Otherwise I never use it

[Anonymous No.9024227]

>>9024028
OP is saying that the emulator won't accept controller inputs correctly, points to how the slide move doesn't work on the controller
your way of "disproving" this is to post a video of a guy that isn't using a controller, and doesn't do the slide move
you are retarded

[Anonymous No.9024235]

>>9024227
>sockpuppeting
I actually feel sorry for you OP

[Anonymous No.9024281]

>>9024227
>won't accept controller inputs
you're just as retarded as the OP
hook up a fuckin controller dude the emulators work just the same as a NES, just map the controller correctly
NES doesn't do some magic to make you slide, emus are cycle accurate it's the same shit

[Anonymous No.9024304]

>>9024281
i can't speak for NES specifically but there is a lot of stuff that emulation doesn't cut it including Atari, Mega Drive, N64, Saturn etc

[Anonymous No.9024365]

>>9024304
none of those are good consoles anyway so who cares

[Anonymous No.9024426]

>>9023173
What's a slide move in Super Mario Bros? Like crouching and sliding?

[Anonymous No.9024485]

>>9024365
>quit liking what I don't like

[Anonymous No.9024503]

>>9024128
lol retard

[Anonymous No.9024507]

>>9024365
N64 is better than your favorite console.

[Anonymous No.9024536]

>9024304
>Mega Drive emulation
>doesn't cut it
I'm guessing you've only experienced Mega Drive emulation through one of these?

[Anonymous No.9024580]

>>9024485
You can like it all you want, I really don't care what you do.
>>9024507
Nah. I own one with an ED64, never play it

[Anonymous No.9024591]

>>9024536
not the guy you're replying to but emulated YM2612 sound is ass

[Anonymous No.9024669]

>>9024281
you have absolutely no reading comprehension whatsoever

[Anonymous No.9024675]

>>9023173
have you tried using a good emulator and/or computer
well even when i had a shitty computer and shitty emulator i could emulate nes just fine, so you're probably just retarded, maybe fucked up the settings idk

[Anonymous No.9025168]

>>9023173
Seems like you fucked up somewhere.

>>9023221
Unironically you can get better control. You could even run real-time with only the emulator running but you don't even need it to get equal or better to original system.

[Anonymous No.9025479]

>>9023173
Not the right thread but I cannot find bad reviews online. How is the NES emulation on those shitty fake game and watches ninty put out awhile back?

[Anonymous No.9025517]

OP's setup sounds fucked. Probably has a really shitty 5 bucks knock off controller and/or the computer is not setup properly

I have both a Famicom 2 hooked to a CRT and emulation with an adaptor to use NES pads, and the emulated setup is superior in every way and there is no difference whatsoever in input lag if you do the right things. I also have a chinese adaptor to use PS1/2 pads but those do add input lag, the more expensive American made adaptors do not add any lag though. Even in the first case you can nulify it using Run Ahead, and making sure to turn off all the useless GPU processing for the emulators and to set it to high prio / low latency mode

[Anonymous No.9026348]

>>9025168
>>9025517
Please see >>9023226
Also Famicom sound emulation is still garbage.

[Anonymous No.9026356]

>>9026348
I saw that bunch of horseshit already, no need to see it again. People who give thousands of dollars to resellers like to tell themselves shit like that to feel better about themselves and are generally tech illiterate.

[Anonymous No.9026361]

>>9023181
It's not that the game is tough

It's that the controls feel off and the screen never looks right

Then Id rather just be playing on the actual system

[Anonymous No.9026420]

>>9026356
>you need to buy games to play on hardware
lmao

[Anonymous No.9026470]

>>9026348
>Also Famicom sound emulation is still garbage.
Looks like you fucked up somewhere.

[Anonymous No.9027036]

>>9026470
Nah, I just have good ears.

[Anonymous No.9027101]

I've never experienced this, and I remember playing shit on NESticle in 1998. I play games on a Pi 4 now. If I ever had input lag on an emulator then my brain just compensated for it and I never noticed.

[Anonymous No.9027110]

>>9026348
proof or confirmed bait
i played through the japanese castlevania 3 a few months back and the music sounded fine
except for stage 7 on alucard's path/stage 4 on sypha's path but that's annoying as shit regardless

[Anonymous No.9027116]

I can do on emulators everything I could do on nes OP, I'm afraid you might be retarded

[Anonymous No.9027346]

>>9027116
>i can't git gud even on original hardware
You sure showed him!

[Anonymous No.9027945]

>>9027110
Expansion audio is even more poorly emulated. Audio is subjective, if you're happy with it, I envy you.

[Anonymous No.9028280]

>>9026348
>Also Famicom sound emulation is still garbage.
The 2A01 sound has been perfectly emulated for years since it's quite simple. I can detect no difference between emulation and real hardware. For some other stuff like Mega Drive the sound emulation sucks dick because the sound chip has analog filters which are hard to simulate.

[Anonymous No.9028767]

>>9028280
On the other hand, FM synthesis is digital and there were multiple revisions of the sound hardware. There are slight variations in different Famicom hardware too. Sound is the only thing I'm autistic about in terms of accuracy, for whatever reason.

[Anonymous No.9028813]

>>9024591
>>9028280
>>9028767
Genesis Plus GX has an option to improve the accuracy of MD music emulation by quite a bit, though it's a bit taxing on the CPU. A lot of the popular stuff are perfect but some of the more obscure stuff still sounds jank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylq90xrdDrI

[Anonymous No.9029316]

emulated SID is also crap for same reason--analog filters. i do agree a basic PSG like the NES has is trivial to emulate.

[Anonymous No.9029348]

>>9028767
The only major sound difference I know of was the very first two Famicom chipset revisions had an incompletely implemented triangle channel so the "downward pitch" trick beloved of Tim Follins didn't work on them, you just hear white noise.

[Anonymous No.9029397]

>>9029348
Yessir, that's the one. There's a test ROM for it, pretty cool if you have a lot of Famicoms. The signal path also differs for expansion audio between different revisions. I like the AV Famicom's EXP audio, most people don't. Sharp Twin seems to be the best all-rounder for EXP sound.

[Anonymous No.9030001]

>>9027036
100% you'd fail a blind test and you'd say the emulator is the real thing
I can record waveforms and they are identical, with the only difference being noise

[Anonymous No.9030243]

>>9030001
>I can
Sure you can, my little copeling. Look forward to you posting the results. Not the anon you're coping to btw.

[Anonymous No.9030690]

>>9030001
Go ahead and do it, then next time we have this thread our resident shitposters will pretend you've never done it. People have posted comparisons showing that emulators get lower latency than actual hardware and you still have people arguing the opposite or finding other ways to cope (ie, it allegedly breaks games without ever citing an actual example). You can't convince people who've spent time, money and effort collecting shit.

[Anonymous No.9030991]

>>9030243
>can't even google
It's been done to death. Why do people still shitpost about this crap?

>cope cope cope
Ok?

>>9030690
Of course, it's always either shitposting or unironically actual fanboys.

[Anonymous No.9031004]

>>9030991
>i can do something
>oh wait i can't
>u-u-u need to google
Thanks for playing

[Anonymous No.9031008]

>>9028280
>>9028767
U said mega drive has analogue audio but doesn't it use an FM synthesiser which U said is digital?

[Anonymous No.9031026]

>>9031004
I'm not the same anon.

I don't even understand why you care though, it's been done before, all you do by acting like that is either confirming you're a moron and delusional or just shitposting, either way not a good look.

[Anonymous No.9031029]

>>9031026
I accept your concession, nigger faggot

[Anonymous No.9031032]

>>9031029
I mean, to be honest it's been pretty obvious for a while that you're just shitposting, just gave you the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous No.9031036]

>>9023173
Flashcart chads win again. All the benefit of original hardware none of the drawbacks of plastic hoarding.

[Anonymous No.9031056]

>>9030243
>>9031004
Several NES emulators handle its audio 100% accuracy: https://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/NESAccuracyTests
When it comes to emulation, the NES is probably the most developed and rigorously tested system.

[Anonymous No.9031069]

>we decapped the original chips
>we mapped out the internal circuitry
>we analysed the logic
>we wrote an emulator
>we accounted for interference and analog components
>we verified that the audio output is 1:1 with a real system
>but this one anon insists it doesn't sound right so we must be wrong

[Anonymous No.9031082]

>>9030243
>>9031004
There you go.

Snipper from SMB intro. Literally the only difference is that the real thing is slightly noisier, which makes sense.
Whoopty Fuckin' Doo, who would have ever guessed.

[Anonymous No.9031086]

>>9031056
I'd say Mega Drive emulation is pretty good outside the sound, but it's also not a difficult machine to understand.

[Anonymous No.9031087]

>>9031082
Oh nononono hahahaha anon BTFO

[Anonymous No.9031095]

as others have said, emulated SID and YM2612 is bad because they have analog filters. emulated sound is always flat and scratchy, it doesn't have the warmth or depth of the real thing.

[Anonymous No.9031106]

>>9031095
We have pretty good filters these days to apply. Sure, 15-10 years ago I would have agreed with you.

[Anonymous No.9031115]

>>9031086
Even Mega Drive's sound can be massively improved if you used the Nuked option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2he1ez_JKc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuK_Rjf20iE

[Anonymous No.9031130]

>>9031095
>not buffering your PC output thru a real SID (unironically very easy)
ngmi

[Anonymous No.9031142]

>>9024580
I didn't ask if you played it. I didn't ask a question at all. Your input was not needed.

[Anonymous No.9031201]

>>9031026
If you're not the same anon then why do you care? Why are you also unable to do the comparison you both claim is so easy? Why has something that's been done so many times impossible for you to find. Can you ironically not even google?

>>9031056
Did you post the wrong link or just hoped no one would bother checking and see that it doesn't support your claim?

>>9031082
At least you tried, albeit only half assed. Still better than the angry parroting babies. Here's what you should have spent an extra 10 seconds doing to show a comparison. Or did you try it and weren't happy the facts don't fit your narrative?

[Anonymous No.9031202]

>>9031082
fake and gay. waves are identical and you've added noise to it and gave it a slight 0.05db volume boost. is this how you prove that apu emulation is bad? by producing low quality and low resolution images of the same waveform? i do like how you cut off the rest of the triangle wav in your "real" pic. totally legit, guys! this board is embarrassing.

>>9031095
>as others have said, emulated SID and YM2612 is bad because they have analog filters.
it's not bad at all. it's CPU intensive to emulate them accurately. YM emulation is as good as its going to get, SID emulation will never be perfect because the filters are far more complicated and differ between SID6581 revisions. no 6581 sid sounds exactly the same. ym chips don't have this dramatic difference in tonal quality. if anyone believes it does then they are retards.

[Anonymous No.9031207]

>>9031202
>SID emulation will never be perfect because the filters are far more complicated and differ between SID6581 revisions. no 6581 sid sounds exactly the same
Sound varied by different lots of chips. The 8580 however always sounds consistent.

[Anonymous No.9031212]

>>9031207
>The 8580 however always sounds consistent.
yeah. 8580 was supposed to be closest to the original spec of the SID design instead of the rushed 6581.

[Anonymous No.9031217]

>>9031008
FM Synthesis is indeed digital, so it can in theory be perfectly replicated digitally. That said, the signal path that sound takes once the chip spits it out has to be analog, because our ears are, and signal path can alter a sound drastically. Additionally, different revisions of a digital synthesizer can sound different due to differences in the sound generating chip itself, as evidenced by the audio autism in the Genesis / Mega Drive community.

[Anonymous No.9031218]

>>9031212
it used a more modern HMOS process while 6581 SID used the original crude NMOS process they'd been working with since 1975 and that resulted in the inconsistent filters.

[Anonymous No.9031225]

>>9031218
that's true. that inconsistency produced some interesting results. i do like how they'll distort like all fuck when being low pass filtered with high amount of resonance - others prefer the cleaner filters of 8580.

[Anonymous No.9031257]

>>9031202
>fake and gay. waves are identical and you've added noise to it and gave it a slight 0.05db volume boost
Are you retarded? Left is obviously louder.

Provide the proof of opposite if you're going to post retarded arguments like that, unless you're literally here just to waste everyone's time, I already had to spend 20 minutes settings everything up for recording. I guess that's your master plan, just to shitpost and "troll".

[Anonymous No.9031261]

>>9031201
>At least you tried, albeit only half assed. Still better than the angry parroting babies. Here's what you should have spent an extra 10 seconds doing to show a comparison. Or did you try it and weren't happy the facts don't fit your narrative?

See: >>9031257

[Anonymous No.9031276]

>>9031257
>>9031261
>literally get called nigger
>still keep replying
Lmao you really are dumb

[Anonymous No.9031278]

>>9031201
I think the site that says "NES APU emulation is 100% accurate for these following emulators" does a lot to support my claim that NES APU emulation is 100% accurate. You're welcome to try to disprove the tests but that's probably too much effort for the dopamine hits you're trying to get.

[Anonymous No.9031284]

>>9031201
>different only in speed, loudness and noise levels
>otherwise almost identical outside of mild differences that every analog chip can have
what's the problem?

[Anonymous No.9031292]

>>9031257
>Provide the proof of opposite
>>9031278
>You're welcome to try to disprove the tests
This gon be good.

[Anonymous No.9031297]

>>9031201
>If you're not the same anon then why do you care?
Isn't this public? Pretty sure anyone can post and correct dumb claims

[Anonymous No.9031306]

>>9031202
>it's CPU intensive to emulate them accurately.
Are you using a Intel CPU from 10 years ago or something?

[Anonymous No.9031318]

>>9031306
Opposed to what? A clone of an Intel CPU from this year?

[Anonymous No.9031352]

>>9031082
>wasting time to doctor evidence
4chan autismos never cease to amaze

[Anonymous No.9031372]

>>9031082
Anti-emulator fags BTFO (like always). Look at them seething
>b-but you're not posting the entire thing
>b-but my good ears
Collectorfags will never ever admit their entire expensive hobby revolves around placebo effect. If they do, their whole world view would collapse. Lmfao

[Anonymous No.9031384]

>>9031318
Yep.

[Anonymous No.9031389]

>>9023173
What is the best most accurate NES core for RetroArch?

[Anonymous No.9031391]

>>9031389
Mesen

[Anonymous No.9031425]

>>9031056
>>9031069
>>9031202
How you emufags talk sounds like gaslightin, ngl
>it's not the emulators fault, you're just bad
>the sound is perfectly accurate, you're just crazy
>here's some dubious tests proving you're wrong!
I used to deal with an abusive gf, and these gaslighting tactics feel so, so familiar. Why can't you enjoy your free shit in peace?

[Anonymous No.9031432]

>>9031425
>abusive gf, and these gaslighting tactics feel so, so familia
LMAO how the fuck does a girl abuse you? Just slap that bitch. What a cuck

[Anonymous No.9031439]

>>9031391
There's no download for it for RetroArch? I found bsnes, I thought that was the best?

[Anonymous No.9031449]

>>9031439
Look through the list of cores carefully, Mesen should be there. Unless its Linux-only or some weird shit?

[Anonymous No.9031479]

>>9031425
Do zoombies really get beat up by women nowadays?

[Anonymous No.9031489]

>>9023173
I

[Anonymous No.9031490]

>>9023226
>It's input lag and is generally unavoidable with emulation
And with anything you connect to a screen, input lag isn't something that only exists with emulation
>You can fake an improvement with so-called "runahead", but it breaks some games and at a technical level is just using a bunch of save states real fast, so it breaks RNG and generally makes for a rather inaccurate experience.
Your right you can "fake" an improvement by reducing the lag of some games to lower than original hardware and that some games may run slightly worse than original hardware. What are experiences you've experienced that give you an inaccurate experience when compared with OG hardware I'll give you emulation can break some games I'm just generally interested what experiences you've personally noticed.
>Real hardware (or even cheap hardware clones) on a decent LCD monitor, through a scaler, or better yet on a CRT will have better input responsiveness than even the very best emulation setup.
False, varies on titles
>Emulation-anons may reply to this post attempting to dispute these facts, do not believe their lies.
What facts have you listed? Its seems you have a misunderstanding of what causes input lag that has lead you to a false conclusion. Overall input lag exists in all mediums. I'd be willing to bet if you were given one controller and played games on OG hardware, FPGA, and a quality emulation machine you wouldn't be able to differentiate between the 3 based on input lag for a grand majority of titles.

[Anonymous No.9031515]

>>9031449
Hmm, weird, isn't there, I have Snes9x and another one but no Mesen. Win 64bit.
I found bsnes on a separate repo, which people say is very accurate too? Is that true? But if you say Mesen is better I'd like to try it, I wonder.

[Anonymous No.9031521]

>>9031490
Why are you replying to bait? It's a YouTube search away to even debunk the first argument about latency / input lag, even if they were serious, there's no reason to even start a discussion with actually medically retarded people who get lost here.

[Anonymous No.9031535]

>>9031449
>>9031515
Nevermind, found it. Thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.9031536]

>>9031261
>See: >>9031257
Why

>>9031278
>I think the site that says "NES APU emulation is 100% accurate for these following emulators"
It literally doesn't say that. It says some emulators received a grade of 100% based on a set of pas/fail tests. It also says that original NES hardware received grades of 78.85%, 80.77%, and 84.62%
Another epic selfpwn

>>9031284
Not sure of trolling

>>9031297
>Isn't this cope?
Of the highest order

[Anonymous No.9031541]

>>Isn't this cope?
>Of the highest order
Anon sure is coping, no proof just cope, sad

[Anonymous No.9031595]

>9031536
>It says some emulators received a grade of 100% based on a set of pas/fail tests.
Yes, that's how you test for emulator accuracy.
>It also says that original NES hardware received grades of 78.85%, 80.77%, and 84.62%
They were testing the flash carts, not the actual NES hardware itself.

[Anonymous No.9031785]

>>9031595
>>It also says that original NES hardware received grades of 78.85%, 80.77%, and 84.62%
>They were testing the flash carts, not the actual NES hardware itself.
Imagine not even being able to read that and try to post serious posts.

[Anonymous No.9031903]

>It also says that original NES hardware received grades of 78.85%, 80.77%, and 84.62%
even if this is a troll this is just embarrassing to look at. like a guy recording himself shitting his pants for attention

[Anonymous No.9032772]

>>9031541
>>9031595
>>9031785
>>9031903
ITT: zoomies btfo by their own data seethe and cope

[Anonymous No.9032995]

>>9023221
The process of polling the inputs on an NES controller is so slow that it shouldn't make a difference.

[Anonymous No.9033113]

>>9023173
This is why people tell you to play on original hard ware anon. Do you think we are just shit posting or something? Seriously the best way to play a game js on the OG hardware

[Anonymous No.9033309]

>>9023173
Sounds like some mental problem you're struggling with.

[Anonymous No.9033312]

>>9023470
Hi, OP.

[Anonymous No.9033430]

>>9032995
>Here I am, brain the size of a shift register

[Anonymous No.9033498]

>>9033430
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qys9sdzJKI

That's with using a slow controller.

[Anonymous No.9034076]

>>9033498
jk i know