/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8921752]

What games did the "Lost Woods" schtick the best?

[Anonymous No.8921760]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRkfsLYmRUw

[Anonymous No.8921769]

>>8921752
>schtick

[Anonymous No.8922702]

>>8921769
Formerly schtuck

[Anonymous No.8922765]

>>8921752
Super Mario RPG. That's where you meet dat real muthafucker GENO.

[Anonymous No.8922931]

Fable

[Anonymous No.8922938]

>>8921760
letting this run in another tab thanks anon
g o d t i e r

[Anonymous No.8922939]

>>8921752
turok on n64

[Anonymous No.8922948]

>>8921752
Vagrant Story

[Anonymous No.8923202]

>>8922765
They named him Geno because "Larry Stu" was too long to fit.

[Anonymous No.8923235]

None of them, it sucks and isn’t fun in any game.

[Anonymous No.8923305]

>>8922948
At least in this there's a blatantly obvious solution. The Iron Maiden dungeon on the other hand can go straight to hell.

[Anonymous No.8923408]

>>8921752
That should be the official flag of Hyrule.

[Anonymous No.8923428]

>>8923202
>retard who thinks all OCs are mary sues

[Anonymous No.8923732]

>>8921752
The second I read “lost woods” the lost woods theme from LTTP came blaring into my mind, so I’ll go with LTTP.

[Anonymous No.8923787]

>>8923428
Plus being a Mary Sue in a videogame has very different implications given that many story conflicts should be resolved through gameplay. So in the canonical version of the story might be a string of straightforward victories for the main character.

You can still have other Mary Sue traits like characters liking you and treating you as special for no reason, but in general one should tread carefully.
>>8923732
>Solve illusion puzzle to unlock vast swath of higher-level overworld otherwise gated by the Ladder item from Level-4.
vs
>Pretty forest with cool music that you visit once or twice to grab the master sword then never return
pretty much sums up the difference between the two games.

[Anonymous No.8924194]

>>8923428
>established mythology? CHECK!
>new character added to that mythology? CHECK!
>new character is free of all weaknesses and is, as a result, the most powerful thing around? CHECK!
>new character is of divine or otherworldy origins? CHECK!
>established characters fawn over the new character? CHECK!
>plot revolves around the new character because the whole of existence is dependant on said new character? CHECK!
How is Geno not a Mary Sue, again?

[Anonymous No.8924224]

Friday the 13th

[Anonymous No.8924410]

I know one that didn't do it well.

[Anonymous No.8924417]

>>8924410
Those trees look like they can give you nightmares!

[Anonymous No.8924421]

Worst gimmick.

[Anonymous No.8924431]

this one

[Anonymous No.8924460]

>>8924194
>established mythology? CHECK!
>new character added to that mythology? CHECK!
The game itself establishes a new mythology. There was never anything about stars granting wishes before SMRPG and Geno.

>new character is free of all weaknesses and is, as a result, the most powerful thing around? CHECK!
He's no stronger than anyone else in the party. He's also bumbling and silly when you first meet him and gets in over his head trying to fight the boss alone until Mario and Mallow show up to bail him out.

>established characters fawn over the new character? CHECK!
No one does that except for the child who's favorite action figure was used as the being's body.

>plot revolves around the new character because the whole of existence is dependant on said new character? CHECK!
The plot revolves around the stars, Geno only exists to pass information of the plot onto the characters.

>How is Geno not a Mary Sue, again?
You don't know what it means, at all.
If he were a Mary Sue he would be an unstoppable badass. Perfect in every situation. The rest of the cast would be secondary to him. He would be a blatant self-insert for the writer.
Instead Geno is a messenger who tries so hard to act serious that it ends up being goofy, he comes down to Earth and possesses the body of an action figure because he thought it looked cool. He is absolutely useless without the help of Mario and his friends. His journey would be a complete shitshow without Mario and the others.
Just because fanart and SMRPG fans portray him as cool doesn't mean he was a Mary Sue. He was just a goofy new character added to the game to give it some variety and introduce the established Mario characters to the lore and plot while requesting their help.

[Anonymous No.8924474]

>>8921769
problem, goy?

[Anonymous No.8924649]

>>8924460
You don't know what a Mary Sue is at all. Look it up, friend-o.

[Anonymous No.8924681]

>>8924431
I don't think you understood the question

[Anonymous No.8924894]

>>8923235
Shit opinion. Get lost, fagmo.

[Anonymous No.8925007]

>>8924649
>no argument but still has to get the last word in
It's okay. I understand. You're embarrassed. At least you're not a tripfag.

>Look it up, friend-o.
Sure. Here's the first result from dictionary.com:
>Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws, originally written as an idealized version of an author in fanfiction.
Nothing about this is true of Geno. He's not perfect. He's flawed. He's a straight man with goofy moments. He relies on Mario. He's not an idealized version of anyone.

[Anonymous No.8925018]

>>8924431
Wgat haje ?

[Anonymous No.8925031]

>>8925007
See >>8924649

[Anonymous No.8925037]

I have a hack of Super Metroid that does a very good version of it, but as Lost Caverns, I think the area was called. The hack might be named Super Metroid Redesign. I have so many SM hacks that it's hard to keep track of which ones are which.

[Anonymous No.8925043]

Skies of Arcadia with the dark rift, the way it was hyped up in the story mixed with the kino music and the black moon stones in the core
https://youtu.be/aT_t0cK1al8

[Anonymous No.8925053]

>>8924194
>How is Geno not a Mary Sue, again?
He is male. The term Mary Sue exists because women in real life are incompetent.

[Anonymous No.8925071]

>>8925031
You told me to look it up. I did. Looking it up confirmed my argument and ended yours. If you disagree then it's time to put up or shut up. Burden of proof is on you. Describe a mary sue.

>>8925053
Don't give him the option of pussying out of the argument with semantics. Mary Sue is a universal term, we don't need to make the discussion confusing by using Larry Stu or Gary Stu.

[Anonymous No.8925096]

>>8925071
Jerry Stu

[Anonymous No.8925098]

>>8925053
>women in real life are incompetent
>t. jobless neet who can't see the numbers on the scale anymore and spends his free time arguing on 4chan

[Anonymous No.8925204]

>>8925071
>>8925007
Howdy. >>8923202/>>8924194 here.
I misspoke when I called him a Larry Stu/Mary Sue. He's more a Cousin Oliver. Or perhaps a talking MacGuffin.
I mean... Mallow isn't central to the plot and direction of the story, like, at all. You could replace him with a Toad or some actual frog character and the basic plot wouldn't really change much, if at all. But Geno is so central to it and hyperpowerful (more on that below) that he at the very least approaches Larry Stu while still being Cousin Oliver.
Also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't arguing that the game "establishes new mythology" really rather disingenuous? I mean... we haven't heard of Geno, star people or a wish-granting star road since, have we? What about any of the new characters and places introduced? Without that continuity, can it really be said that a new mythology was established?
I'm asking because I haven't played the Paper Mario or other RPG Mario games besides SMRPG so idk if Mallow, Booster or wishing stars show up in other games.

Finally, how does his being a messenger at all contradict the statement that the plot revolves around him? The plot revolves around stars, you say, but Geno is a /star/ person from /the stars/ doing the will of /the stars/ to save the wishes people make on /stars/. He is literally inextricable from the stars and therefore the plot.

[Anonymous No.8925212]

>>8925204
Oh, and the hyperpowerful bit:
He was in literally everyone's end-game party specifically because he was the strongest character, fullstop.

[Anonymous No.8925214]

>>8925096
I went to school with a kid named Gerald Soo.

[Anonymous No.8925220]

>>8925204
There's no continuity but the later RPGs have similar concepts. Think FF and it's different but similar roles that crystals fullfill.

>Finally, how does his being a messenger at all contradict the statement that the plot revolves around him?
Does the plot of Terminator 2 revolve around the T-800? Does Dragon Ball revolve around Bulma or Kami?

>but Geno is a /star/ person from /the stars/ doing the will of /the stars/ to save the wishes people make on /stars/.
You're getting pedantic.

[Anonymous No.8925221]

>>8925018
I think Link's Awakening

[Anonymous No.8925228]

>>8925212
>He was in literally everyone's end-game party specifically because he was the strongest character, fullstop.
Maybe if you knew about the 9999 trick early on but my endgame party was always Mario Bowser and Peach.
In fact even if he's the strongest when it comes to meta knowledge or speedrunning I think it's a serious reach to call that some sort of intentional move on the part of the devs to make Geno seem badass.

[Anonymous No.8925229]

>>8925204
i just like the character
(didn't read any of that btw)

[Anonymous No.8925237]

I dunno I always compared Geno to the Martian Manhunter in the Justice League cartoon in terms of role and general vibe.

[Anonymous No.8925271]

>>8925237
can't unsee it now

[Anonymous No.8925298]

>>8925018
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Ilex Forest; not an actual example of the
>"Lost Woods" schtick

[Anonymous No.8925315]

>>8925220
I don't think it's pedantic at all. The plot wholly revolves around /his/ mission. IE the mission belonging to /him/. 'Him' being Geno. Again: he's inextricable to the plot because he literally is the plot (which is why I threw in that he might be considered a MacGuffin).

>no continuity... [it's like] FF
Well then I guess it's unfair of me to harp on the lack of mythology change if they all do that.

>terminator
>dragon ball
Idk about Terminator, and T-800 makes me think of calculators, but comparing Geno to Bulma or Kami is a bit disingenuous, isn't it? IIRC, the plot of DB/DBZ never revolved around either of them.
A better analogue might be Pan?

>>8925228
>bowser
Yeah? Weird. Never much used him. Almost aways Mario, Geno, Peach for me. Occasionally swapping Peach for Mallow.

[Anonymous No.8925321]

>>8925204
>>8925007
fwiw the most succinct and effective definition of Mary Sue that I've heard is a character for whom reality always bends in their favor. Instead of a normal character who must grow to overcome obstacles, for Mary Sue reality changes to ensure she succeeds.

Imagine a game where you have favor with two different NPCs and normally it's impossible to max out favor with both of them. But Mary Sue has cheat engine to just modify the faction setting so both NPCs love her.

Suppose Mary Sue shows up to a boss fight and the boss is weak against Fire but there's no mage in the party. Cheat engine alters reality so that she actually has the fire spell just in time.

Mary Sue is a character that succeeds because the author uses cheat engine for her.

[Anonymous No.8925331]

>>8925321
So Jesus? He had all sorts of cheat codes. Water walking. Infinite lives. Literal God mode.
Definitely sounding like that definition of Mary Sue to me.

[Anonymous No.8925350]

>>8925331
No, but that's because Jesus is not a normal hero protagonist in a drama he's the main religious figure of the New Testament. His miracles convey lessons, he spends a lot of time preaching and telling parables.

Reality doesn't bend just so Jesus can succeed. Reality bends for Jesus in the Bible for the sake of greater truth.

[Anonymous No.8925352]

>>8925315
>The plot wholly revolves around /his/ mission.
That would only be valid if the mission only served him. Saving the Stars is important to everyone. Sure from Geno's POV it's /his/ mission and /his/ alone at first, because he's a stranger on their world. He almost immediately realizes he's too weak to do it alone.
If he were a Mary Sue it would be flipped. The heroes would desperately need to complete their mission and Geno would be the sole character capable of saving them all. Mario's closer to a Mary Sue than Geno considering he's worshipped by so many characters in the game as a great hero and just happens to get involved in everything because he's so strong and heroic despite being a plumber, but Mario has history as a hero.

>but comparing Geno to Bulma or Kami is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?
I don't think so. A bit clumsy of an analog, but it has a point.
>IIRC, the plot of DB/DBZ never revolved around either of them.
Exactly.
You're arguing assuming we've all already accepted that the plot revolves around Geno. My comparisons were to point out how being the one to explain the lore and being a celestial being tied to the lore doesn't mean the plot revolves around him.
The plot revolves around the Stars, just like the Balls. Geno simply informed the party of why he's on a mission to collect them and why it's important.
Sure it's a bit of a flimsy comparison, which is why I was split between the two, he shares elements of both, but the point is the plot revolves around the Stars. I wish I had better comparisons to make but I'm blanking. Honestly I like the comparison to Martian Manhunter in Justice League. He begins the series as a strange outsider bringing news of a big threat to the familiar heroes and helps them resolve it.

[Anonymous No.8925365]

>>8925321
>Instead of a normal character who must grow to overcome obstacles
Geno does this by learning that he needs the help of Mario and Mallow.

>for Mary Sue reality changes to ensure she succeeds.
There's more to it than that. Yusuke Urameshi would be dead if he didn't accidentally fall into a puddle. Reality bending to ensure the characters succeed is just called writing. You could say reality bended to ensure Geno succeeds by having Mario and Mallow arrive to help him on his mission, or you could say reality bended to ensure Mario succeeds by having Geno show up to give him guidance.

>Suppose Mary Sue shows up to a boss fight and the boss is weak against Fire but there's no mage in the party. Cheat engine alters reality so that she actually has the fire spell just in time.
This is where the nature of video games begins to fog things up. You can't really apply the Mary Sue factors to gameplay, because you the player are interacting with the game and things have to work.

[Anonymous No.8925381]

>>8925352
Idk MM's deal in Justice League. I only know the Arrowverse/Supergirl version of the character. I'll have to take your word for it.

Anyway, the main disagreement here seems to be how much the plot revolves around Geno. I say entirely, you say not at all (or only some), would you say that's a fair assessment?

[Anonymous No.8925383]

>>8923732
Link should have just tied the lost woods thief onto his arm instead of a shield. He would have been fucking invincible.

[Anonymous No.8925432]

>>8925381
>would you say that's a fair assessment?
Obviously.
We have different qualifications for whether the plot "revolves around" someone or not. You seem to think anyone that is required for the plot to move forward counts.

[Anonymous No.8925452]

>>8925432
I don't think that at all. The way the game is written, you could remove literally any other character and the plot would still make sense, even Mario, but without Geno, it simply wouldn't.

[Anonymous No.8925504]

>>8925452
Remove literally any other character and the plot halts in it's tracks.
Remove Mario or Peach and obviously everything falls apart.
Remove Mallow and Mario doesn't meet Frogfucius.
Remove Geno and the cast doesn't learn about Star Road.
Remove Bowser and Peach never gets rescued from Booster Tower.
This is how writing works. As does exposition and outside characters explaining the plot to people. Do you think every character who has ever entered a game to explain the plot to the heroes is a Mary Sue?

[Anonymous No.8925679]

>>8922939
kek

[Anonymous No.8925912]

>>8924681
>>8925298
shut the fuck up, yes it is

[Anonymous No.8926368]

>>8925365
Imagine you are watching the game play and don't know whether the player is using cheat engine. In that example the player is assisting the author and isn't the audience.

[Anonymous No.8928219]

>>8921752
this thread is evident of modern culture’s idiocy in understanding a term in the lexicon of a medium and reusing it so often the term has entered the vernacular as meaningless. A Mary Sue slash Larry Stu have existed for long as literature has. They are the author insert, a Samwell Tarly, a Tom Bombadil. Author inserts have long been categorized and understood in the realm of fiction. The modern term, the one this thread is arguing about, in the dark without knowledge, is based upon the contemporary internet definition spring from EPVII and Max Landis. With eptomology born from a 70’s Star Trek fan fiction. Within fan fiction, specifically, a Mary Sue is still an author insert. However by being set in a “fan” or popular culture setting, this author insert interacts with a preordained and setting made by other people. Thus their author insert character, usually the protagonist, becomes apotheotical in nature. All powerful, all knowing, to best navigate the story of this fan fiction and lore. To best interact with characters already established in the setting. It is obvious every single person in this thread is unaware or simply too stupid to fully grasp that Larry Stus have always existed and have their defined place within fiction. Instead you all argue the definition only seven years old and defined by the failed writer son of a beloved filmmaker.

Geno may very well be an Author Insert. I’d prefer if you all litigated this fact on the basis of fact.

[Anonymous No.8928278]

>>8921760
fpbp this world throws me for a loop to this very day

[Anonymous No.8928302]

>>8921752
ori and the blind forest

[Anonymous No.8928327]

>>8925504
youre making quite a leap to conclude that anon might think every character who explains shit is a marysue. deckard cain from diablo is not a marysue
also anon already corrected himself that geno is a cousin oliver or whatever and not a marysue

>>8928219
k

[Anonymous No.8928328]

>>8928302
>modern game
go away those games suck ass

[Anonymous No.8928387]

>>8925912
How? Explain it to me because I don't remember it being much except for a connecting area.

[Anonymous No.8928452]

>>8928219
ok honey

[Anonymous No.8928647]

>>8928328
it was a good lost woods though. minish cap was also memorable.

[Anonymous No.8928670]

>>8928387
idk why he thinks it's a lost woods, it's a wood you may have a hard time leaving initially, but it's not like the four or three room areas that want you to pick a path, just keep walkin around and you'll see the exit soon enough