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/vr/ - Retro Games


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8907064 No.8907064 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Last time was fun... let's do another one of these

This thread is dedicated to the discussion of older visual novels and date sim games

More exciting news! YU-NO for the PC-98 now has an English patch! (which I have no idea how to make it work)

>> No.8907116

Have a pity bump. I dislike VN because of the lack of gameplay. The graphics are usually nice, though.

>> No.8907345

Post anime tits

>> No.8907352

There seem to be a lot of this genre on PC Engine CD... any good ones?

>> No.8908110

>>8907352
No idea about PC-Engine CD but the PC-FX is also full of them. Some of them got English fan translations like Pia Carrot which is probably one of my favourites ever

>> No.8908193
File: 554 KB, 795x597, castlefantasia22.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8908193

I want to thank whoever shilled Castle Fantasia 2 on the previous thread. I am having a blast with this game. I can combine my visual novel autism with my turn-based stratergy autism. it's great!

>> No.8908197
File: 451 KB, 795x597, castlefantasia2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8908197

>>8908193
The graphics look pretty neat for the time it was released too. Was it like 2001 or so?

>> No.8908305

>>8907345
There's boards for this ya know?

>> No.8908574

>>8907064
>YU-NO for the PC-98 now has an English patch!
Uh, hasn't this been out for a while? I remember playing a translated version like ten years ago. Or are you talking about the actual PC-98 version? Either way, best OST ever.

>> No.8908792
File: 29 KB, 480x288, pc-98qt2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8908792

>>8908574
I am talking specifically the PC-98 version. but I can't get this shit to work. The patcher refuses my YU-NO PC-98 file.

>> No.8908878
File: 92 KB, 800x600, naturally13.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8908878

>>8907064
I don't know how to explain it, but I like the aesthetics of these early 2000s VNs. Ever17 is my favorite.

>> No.8908883

>>8908878
Played Remember11 yet? It's even better in my opinion.

>> No.8908908

>>8908883
I have yet to play it yet, but I'm definitely planning on playing it. What makes it better than Ever17 to you?

>> No.8908921

>>8908878
It's really bright and cheerful (I mean, when shit isn't hitting the fan). I think that's ultimately the appeal of most VNs; an excuse to spend time with a bunch of fun characters in a neat place.

>>8908883
Different poster, I never felt that way. I remember the art style aging much less well. I think the story was much less clear, and even once you put it together, the twist wasn't as compelling as in E17, which still remains the most ingenious mindfuck I know (didn't see it coming, yet it's so simple and explains almost everything once you know).

The more miserable setting of R11 also just wasn't as pleasant or fun to spend time in, and I don't feel like the story became drastically more compelling as a result. I didn't hate it, and it's probably the reason I drink black coffee to this day, but that was about my only takeaway.

>> No.8909046
File: 1.46 MB, 4096x3072, MYBEAST.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8909046

>>8908878
Neat, haven't heard about this one. Hope it runs on my retro Windows 98 machine that I put together last week

>> No.8909124

>>8909046
You can find the official English release for free just by Googling it. It was released in 03 so it might work. I'm not sure about the compatibility between Windows releases

>> No.8909161

what games harness that windows 2000 gaming energy the best?
I strongly associate moeblob VNs with that early 2000s windows. I don't know why. Its the first thing I think of when people mention versions of windows from that time

>> No.8909190

>>8907064
Not quite retro but this thing just got translated https://vndb.org/v1272

Is it worth a look? Looks kinda like Wanko to Kurasou which I loved.

>> No.8909576

>>8909190
I remember back in the day there was a lot of screenshots of this game circulating around the internet especially as youtube music video thumbnails, it looks like it has good art at least.

>> No.8909608

>>8907064
What game is she from? I swear I've played it before...

>> No.8909615

>>8909608
She's from the novel "Come See Me Tonight" for windows (2003)

>> No.8911373
File: 51 KB, 500x426, Tataricd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8911373

>>8907064
What the fuck did I just read?

>> No.8911380
File: 727 KB, 950x720, shuffle-04.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8911380

>>8909161
Anything from the early 2000s with big full screen shiny graphics like One: Kagayaku Kisetsu e, Shuffle!, Yin-Yang X-change alternative and ToHeart 2

>> No.8912242
File: 49 KB, 637x477, ONE comfy1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8912242

>>8911380
Why is ONE: Kagayaku Kisetsue e so fucking comfy? It's funny because when I read the VN I didn't even enjoy it that much, I found it kind of dull. And yet despite that, I have really fond views of it. I think there's something about it that captures the peak of the 90's anime sim atmosphere

I also love Apple Projects rearrangement of the OST:
https://youtu.be/csQlEfrPk04

>> No.8913071
File: 1.09 MB, 1280x670, The Pillars of the Gaming Industry.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8913071

>>8911373
A great doujin sound novel by Ryukishi07. Something that should have been a niche for certain people but it got extremely popular.

>> No.8914186
File: 111 KB, 300x300, 1617238507473.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8914186

>>8913071
I meant Chapter 3 in particular, it was even more intense and engaging than the last 2

>> No.8914654
File: 10 KB, 200x200, hy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8914654

>Join a VN company
>Push out a full game in 3 months
>Get shit on for low quality
>What fucking quality are these losers expecting from erotic games
>Make another game in 3 months that subtly makes fun of the degenerates who play this crap
>Massive success somehow
>Do the same thing 3 more times
>3 games made in these 2 years are among the most foundational in the genre
>Still being copied, extending the genres lifespan 20 years
>Output is so insane it makes musician friend have a breakdown
>Refuse to elaborate further
>Die

>> No.8915627
File: 2.49 MB, 1754x2949, 1651181862578.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8915627

anyone able to help me out with what game these are from?

>> No.8915672

>>8915627

YU-NO: A Girl Who Chants Love at the Bound of this World

>> No.8915703

>>8914654
My man was absolutely based

>> No.8916273

>>8915627
Left: the soul version of Yu-No for the PC-98
Right: the shitty remake for windows from the 2010s

>> No.8916923
File: 182 KB, 1280x720, 1651629637577.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8916923

What VNs are these

>> No.8916932

>>8916923
The middle is Sayonara wo Oshiete.

>> No.8917027

>>8916932
Left = Tsui no Sora
Middle = Sayonara wo Oshiete
Right = Jisatsu no Tame no 101 no Houhou

>> No.8917369
File: 200 KB, 960x678, 1649457192504.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8917369

>>8909161
games to consider, YMK, Utawarerumono, Sharin no Kuni, Da Capo, ToHeart2

>> No.8917937

>>8908574
Isn't the Windows version basically exactly the same besides coom?

>> No.8917946

True Love,
Seasons of Sakura,
Runaway City
Three Sisters

>> No.8917968

I recognize that girl

>> No.8917986
File: 988 KB, 961x1400, 1ae400e2b19871d6f.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8917986

>>8917369
>Utawarerumono
Fuck you nigger I'm still crying
I'M STILL FUCKING CRYING AND THE TEARS WON'T STOP
UUUWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

>> No.8918153
File: 196 KB, 800x450, ss_874274ee4a7b9d2c7168752907a54e7b58d992ff.1920x1080.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8918153

>>8917946
Based. For me it's Mayumi Kamijo, my slutty 90s waifu

>> No.8918170

>>8917986
>>8917369
>Utawarerumono combines turn based autism with eroge
I'm interested. Tell me more. Is it anything like fire emblem?

>> No.8918425

>>8918170
It's like Shining Force and FFT but with big detailed sprites like late La Pucelle. It's about if Feudal Japan came back if the word were destroyed. There is tons of talking, but it can be skipped real quick because it's filler. Game is fun, and interesting, but ultimately tragic. There are 3 games 1 from 2004, 2 from 2014.

>> No.8918707

>>8918425
Am I actually missing anything playing it on Vita without the porn?

>> No.8918739
File: 246 KB, 1280x720, 1422347169598.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8918739

I've been playing Ichigo Mashimaro on the PS2. I was motivated to do so after hearing that it's... strange. Conceptually.

So, you play as this twenty-year-old man and childhood friend of Nobue (also twenty) and have come back to your hometown for your summer holiday and want to see Nobue while you're at it. Nobue spends her time hanging out with her twelve-year-old sister and her friends, whom are swiftly introduced to you.

And so we have the goal of the game- to first befriend and later go on a date with one or more of these children (Nobue is not an option, only the kids).

It's the realistic quality to the interactions with the kids which makes it weird I think. These aren't your typical precocious dating sim lolis, the mashimaros are very innocent (this is an All Ages game, incidentally) and your interactions with them are mostly awkward, if nothing else. You build up the courage to go to little Miu's house after having bumped into her in the park a few times and mumble an 'Uh... I was wondering if... uh... you'd be interested in hanging out or something i-if you're not too busy...?' over the intercom, both character and player acutely aware of the wrongness of a twenty year old man asking a little girl to hang out with him and asking themselves what they are doing- and so comes the response:
'Sorry onii-san, actually I am a little busy right now...'
'O-oh... okay... maybe some other time...'

Anyway, I called Miu on her phone last night and have arranged to take her to the pool tomorrow. She didn't seem very keen on the idea though...

>> No.8918772

>>8918739
That sounds like it doesn't fit the tone of the source material at all. Although it is obviously the same target market. Are you enjoying it?

>> No.8918825

>>8918739
IMO it's trash.
>Based on a pretty mediocre anime
>THE N5 VN if ever there was an N5 VN
>Most of the event scenes are extremely short (some of them take longer to load than the actual event lasts)
>a run of the game can be cleared in 2-3 hours (and that's even taking your time)
>It's boring as FUCK, but that's a good thing if you're just using it as Japanese reading practice since there's not much to give a shit about here
Downsides
>it IS boring/not that interesting, which kind of sucks
>no backlog
>no auto-skip for previously viewed text
>pretty random/luck-based for certain event occurrences (unironically a lot of the event scenes have a 50% chance of extra stuff happening, just randomly, with no indication as to which scenes/when/how)
>you can go through multiple runs without unlocking all of the possible locations where events can be viewed, which can be frustrating
>the volume balance is fucked by default and you'll need to crank the BGM volume all the way down to 10% and the voice volume to 100% to hear shit clearly.
Not really recommended. It's a game that tries to be a comfy summer break simulation but completely forgets to be comfy. It's also poorly documented even by JP players, and 100%'ing the game seems like it'd take a lot longer than it's worth.

>> No.8918876

>>8918707
You don't get the 2D characters in a 3D world that is peak sovl. Other than that they took out the cringey porn scenes.

>> No.8918947

>>8909161
Kanon is the game you're looking for

>> No.8918980

>>8909190
>Patch available via discord
The modern internet is going to kill so much content.

>> No.8919456
File: 37 KB, 607x480, 203[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919456

>>8918707
16:9 ratio
somewhat improved battle balance
more bonus battles at the end
new translation
new soundtrack option that takes bgm from the sequels (personally I use the original option which relies more on ambience)

>> No.8919547

>>8919456
I don't need a translation but the Vita version does sound better. I am sure I can watch the porn parts elsewhere.

>> No.8919553
File: 698 KB, 960x544, uta cameo2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919553

>>8919547
http://sagaoz.net/ has the cleared save files for original and DVD versions, if you're curious you can just watch the scenes from there.

>> No.8919556

>>8918153
Reminder there's nothing wrong with liking sluts.

>> No.8919562

>>8918980
I know. It's going to be terrible. People will think we entered some sort of dark age.
It's the same with substack putting blogs behind a wall.

>> No.8919569

>>8919562
>going to be
I see you are an optimist, anon!

>> No.8919614

>>8919569
I try to be.
It seems major websites are making it harder and harder to preserve content.

>> No.8919626

>>8919614
Honestly if I could bother to get a good array of hdd/ssd/whatever, I'd start gathering whatever I care about already.
Things are getting worse slowly but surely. You still can find things online, but it's getting unreasonably harder.
Even things you take for granted, like that one 10+ year old video on youtube you love rewatching to lift the mood - may be already gone with no recovery.
I had to download few MADs via some internet archive fuckery and I got lucky, not everyone is.

>> No.8919640

>>8919626
>I had to download few MADs via some internet archive fuckery and I got lucky, not everyone is.
I had to do that with some mod tracker files. Luckily there's still ModArchive and Modland FTP, but there's no telling when they'll go as well.
For the cost of an external/one more internal if it fits HDD you could save nearly everything you care about.
As long as you don't get stupid and hoard a 2TB hard drive should hold everything you care about.
I had a time recently trying to find a download of Rocky Horror Picture Show that had Superheroes at the end.
I think if you're sensible about it, everyone should become an archive. But the issue will soon become the bloating size of files and an inability to share it. Jason Scott might be able to make textfiles.com, but could someone do the same with videos as affordably as he does that?

>> No.8919670
File: 10 KB, 320x240, 01_UnyuBomXP107.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919670

>>8919640
>I think if you're sensible about it, everyone should become an archive
well I filled my hdd to a certain capacity, but I personally don't usually have time or energy to organize everything out there. Creating an archive is an effort not everyone is capable of.
I keep things I deem relatively rare (I still have few dvds of dodjinshi non-h games from old ass comiket) and try to keep some torrents up, but that's about it. 3 TB total is not that much turns out if you want your taiwanese cartoons.

Anyway, I just mean to spread awareness that if you have spare energy and motivation, you probably should start gathering stuff.

>> No.8919674

>>8919640
I keep putting off backing everything I want up because I travel so much. Maybe I should buy a house with a rape dungeon just so I can lock a few dozen terabytes in a fireproof safe in it.

>> No.8919681

>>8919670
The thing is what interests me isn't that big so I could get away with less storage really.
But for a lot of people who have 10s of GB here, 10s of GB there, it really adds up.
>>8919674
Just get an external HDD, or an internal one with a caddy. How much space does that really take up even in a backpack or whatever?

>> No.8919684

>>8919681
Yeah because I am going to travel the world and go through airport security with a HDD full of terabytes of loli doujins.

>> No.8919690
File: 9 KB, 242x250, tv.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919690

has there ever been a single good visual novel, what is the appeal of them?

>> No.8919696

>>8919690
anime tiddies.

>> No.8919697
File: 41 KB, 654x342, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919697

>>8919681
>The thing is what interests me isn't that big so I could get away with less storage really.
I mean that's good, may as well have it burned on dvd or stuff, won't hurt.
I have bought myself dvd drive recently, may be not the greatest tool and discs itself surely are not as good, but it's something
>>8919684
just put them in sustem32, no one will know
>>8919690
>what is the appeal of them?
to read

>> No.8919701

>>8919696
what is the appeal of them? i dont jerk off to drawings, i'm a man

>> No.8919719

>>8919701
It's like a JRPG without the battles. I started playing them for Japanese practice but like them for their own merits now. Play the first case of Phoenix Wright, it will take you about an hour and you will know whether you see anything of value or not by the end of it.

>> No.8919721

>>8919719
I dunno if Phoenix Wright is good example of run down the mill VN

>> No.8919783
File: 609 KB, 2115x2062, 488848.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919783

>>8918772
I guess? But probably not for the reason the creators intended.
>>8918825
>The most N5 VN if ever there was an N5 VN
Pretty much yeah.

I think everything you say about it is true (especially the volume balance being fucked, that was an unpleasant few minutes until I could access the settings menu. Did the play-tester have his hearing aid switched off?).
Definitely not something I plan on 100% or even playing more than once.
I'm going to confess my love to Miu and that'll be enough for me.
Additional note: The game cost me ¥589. About the same as the cheap hair accessory I bought at the in-game supermarket with which I'm hoping to woo Miu over on our date.

>> No.8919802
File: 891 KB, 1280x720, Screenshot 2022-05-01 23.02.32.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8919802

>>8919690
I like cute little girls doing normal everyday stuff, having the "iyashi" escapism appeal
I also like cute little girls engaging in very age inappropriate behaviour

VNs combine those for me.

>> No.8919824

>>8919802
Title?

>> No.8919826

>>8919802
Incredible, That deep, men plunging in... There, filling my eyes.

>> No.8919853

>>8919826
What did she mean by this??

>> No.8919858

>>8919826
jouzu as fuck

>> No.8919897

>>8919719
>Phoenix Wright
ah i got you, i liked what i played of that game, where you have to listen to a witness and whip out a piece of evidence relevant to what they're saying and they start stammering, i liked that

>> No.8919898

>>8919802
anon, have a seat in that there chair over here..

>> No.8920214

>>8919858
Thanks now give me the sauce.

>> No.8920246

>>8920214
Tanabe Kyou

>> No.8921493
File: 45 KB, 640x400, FQwlA90WUAAOl3e.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8921493

I had a hell of a time to get some of these visual novels to work both on my Windows98 machine and Windows 10 one. I should set up a YouTube channel with guides on how to set them up. Some of them can be quite tricky and not obvious at all

>> No.8921876

>>8921493
>I should set up a YouTube channel with guides on how to set them up. Some of them can be quite tricky and not obvious at all

Unironically please do that, you would be providing a community service. Also, please shill it here if you do make it so I can subscribe

>> No.8922867

>>8921876
Thanks for the support mate. I might really do that. I am not aiming for a huge audience, it's all about helping a couple of other fellow autists getting some 90s 2D tiddies on their screen. Now, I just have to find a screen recording software that works well on my Windows98 P2 350MHz for comparison reasons

>> No.8923632

>>8921493
for some reason LTSC is quite reliable for those jap late 90s early 00s Windows games. Both versions of ToHeart, Hajimete no Orusuban, fucking Bible Black, it handles them no sweat

>> No.8923874

>>8908193
Play the Utawarerumono (aka Underwater Ray Romano) series.

>> No.8924579

>>8923632
Lad you had no idea the things I had to do to get some of the games. There was one game where I was just about to give up trying to make it work because there was no info in English on how to make it work but I found some French weeb autist community in the last second and somehow got it to work despite my limited French (3rd language)

>> No.8924678
File: 221 KB, 860x825, yukiko.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8924678

Dumb question but can YU-NO (and PC98 games in general) be played with 100% controller? I want to emulate the sovlfvl version on a chink handheld.

>> No.8926438
File: 524 KB, 800x600, YMK quote 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8926438

To this day YMK is the most comfy VN I have read

>> No.8926514

>>8919690
>has there ever been a single good visual novel
Not retro but yes
https://www.gog.com/en/game/full_metal_daemon_muramasa

>> No.8926574

>>8926438
Is the PSP homebrew port English only? How odd.

>> No.8927605
File: 120 KB, 1024x768, 1631653759645.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8927605

Lakers is in English now.
https://archive.org/details/lakers_en_complete
https://gbatemp.net/download/pc-98-holy-girl-force-lakers-english-patch.37463/

>> No.8928669

>>8927605
Cheers mate. OP here. Hopefully this will be easier to patch than Yu-no which I can't get it to work for shit

>> No.8928734

>>8919690
I've only played one, Katawa Shoujo, and I enjoyed it quite a lot. I was mostly impressed by the quality.
It's also free, not outrageously long, and originally written in English. I thought it was a solid 9/10, and an experience unlike what I have had before from either novels or video games.
Most VNs I see mentioned give me the impression that they'd be too cringy to have a good story, too focused on porn to be meaningful, or too based around weeby tropes to have interesting characters.
I keep checking these threads though, in case something grabs my attention.

>> No.8929391

>>8928669
Both are pre-patched on the PC-98 translation archive: https://archive.org/details/nec-pc-9801-translations

>> No.8929540
File: 23 KB, 400x280, FO11qaVWQAA-E6x.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8929540

>>8929391
Thanks for the link. Quality stuff. I'll spend the whole weekend on this shit now

>> No.8929960
File: 371 KB, 640x480, Sayonara wo sayonara CG11.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8929960

>>8928734
>Most VNs I see mentioned give me the impression that they'd be too cringy to have a good story, too focused on porn to be meaningful, or too based around weeby tropes to have interesting characters.

Here are some VNs I would recommend that don't have any of the problems you mentioned:
Narcissu (especially the first one, but Side 2nd is also good)
Swan Song
Sayonara wo Oshiete (Reddit criticized the translation to the point the guy took it down, but it's not a horrible TL, and you can find it here:
https://erogedownload.com/downloads/sayonara-o-oshiete/)
Saya no Uta
Symphonic Rain (If you're looking for something more relaxed, at least before all twists start coming along)

Yume Miru Kusuri is also pretty good. The character designs seem pretty anime, but the characters are very realistically human

>> No.8930039

>>8928734
if you liked katawa shoujo, you may like narcissu, especially the second one. It's hard to tell what turns you off though, because to me, katawa shoujo is full of typical VN tropes, just executed with a western-style "flawed character" flavour to character writing. You might like swan song for a similar style of character writing, but the setting is pretty different. the other anon's recs are overall pretty good and also pretty varied in genre. definitely worth checking out.

>> No.8930480

>>8929960
>>8930039
>Narcissu
This is on my try-list, because it was mentioned as an inspiration by at least a couple of the Katawa Shoujo devs. I will take your guys' recs into account as well, especially since you both mentioned Narcissu and Swan Swong. Thank you for the suggestions.
I felt like KS was almost a deconstruction of (what I imagine to be) typical VN tropes at certain points, even if it kept to them at many other points where appropriate. I appreciated that KS wasn't just "guy picks up cute girls for sex scenes", rather, it had legitimate characters (beyond flawed, they felt fully realized and complex, and not just used as plot devices) and actual themes and messages tied to the emotional moments. The kinds of things I expect from a high quality "normal" novel. In short, I'd like to find a VN that is not merely entertainment.
The other ones I see mentioned a lot are, of course, popular ones (Muv Luv series, Fate/Stay, and Umineko).

>> No.8930495

To The Moon is nearly a retro VN.

>> No.8930941
File: 74 KB, 640x400, NP2_0007.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8930941

>Play a few routes of Dokyusei
>Week later it gets a translation announced
What game should I play next bros? I've got an unexplained gift

>> No.8930969
File: 552 KB, 638x2823, 1650350510780.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8930969

>>8929960
>but it's not a horrible TL
Yes it is.

>> No.8931232

>>8918825
Mediocre? This is the best anime ever.

>> No.8931343

>>8930480
>Deconstruction
People using this term is my biggest pet peeve of online discussion. It's almost always used by someone who decided to engage with a work they wouldn't otherwise and ended up enjoying it. Then, rather than change their viewpoint on what the work's progenitors may have to offer, they assume that [insert title here] must be some brilliant attack on the common cliches, a victorious battle against all the mediocrity that had come before.
The dating sim genre as we know it today got its start in 1992 with the release of Dokyusei. Four years later in 1996, YU-NO is released, and one of its main themes is analyzing the relationship between the player and the fictional characters in these girl games. And there were other works before that did the same, but less prominently. If I were to take the term "deconstruction" as is commonly (but erroneously) used, then I could say that there have existed visual novels deconstructing the tropes of other visual novels and dating sims for as long as the dating sim has existed.
But I digress. My main point is that it is far too common to see people play a visual novel that is well executed and slightly changes the common cliches (Katawa Shoujo, Doki Doki Literature Club), and believe it's a genius subversiom when in reality it's just another work you think is parodying something that hardly exists. In a way, I blame the way a lot of visual novels use the mystery format, since it's very common for them to present themselves with a cutesy exterior that is later darkened, only for those who don't actually play these take at it at face value.
Anyways, I would like to give you a good recommendation but it's hard when you come into it with such low expectations. If you're serious about wanting a VN that's not merely entertainment then I would suggest the 1996 YU-NO. The cultural critic/philosopher Hiroki Azuka described it as a "meta-level girl game", which seems close to what you mean by deconstruction.

>> No.8931353

>>8931343
When I suggest YU-NO I want to be clear that it's only worth it if you're serious about not looking for something entertaining, as that would be the last thing I'd describe it as. Interesting, foundational, culturally impactful, yes. But far more grueling than entertaining.

>> No.8931394

>>8931343
I hope I didn't use it incorrectly. As I stated, I'm imagining tropes for the genre since I've only played one game, and that not even from Japan, so I only have impressions to go off. Lacking experience, I imagine that many games have, for example, a "shy/scared girl" that you stand up for and help out, eventually earning her love in turn. Your relationship will implode if you try that in KS, though, and I got the impression that the authors will intentionally trying to trick people into falling for that trap. I felt they wouldn't have attempted this unless the trap was an easy one to fall into -- e.g. if they expected some portion of the audience to have been trained to expect the opposite outcome. There are other examples, but that's the kind of thing I had in mind.
I will give YU-NO a shot; I've heard it referenced before here and there. I trust your judgment, and I'll pray that I can get past the "grueling" parts. I don't believe a game needs to be mind-blowingly fun at all moments, but no one wants to sit through hours of tedium in order to collect sprinkles of quality.

>> No.8931498

>>8931394
Words evolve over time and I'm willing to accept that the term deconstruction has become synonymous with subversive, and I believe that's how you were using it. My issue was more with how it tends to be used by those without much grounding in the genre/medium it's used in. As if the term is just a justification for one's initial assumptions.
The KS example you give is an interesting one, but in my opinion it sounds more chained to the tropes than escaping them. If it's relying on you expecting a cliche then it doesn't really matter if it follows it to the end or not; either way it's using a common idea to get it's point across. It's not that hard to do the opposite of what one is expecting, in fact it's as simple as adding a single "not". You help the shy girl by defending her vs you help the shy girl by not defending her. A permutation of the commons. This isn't to say Katawa Shoujo is bad for doing this but rather it shows that the archetypes it's using are a solid foundation.
As for YU-NO, I would play the prologue and use that to decide if you like it or not. If it doesn't capture you in that time then I wouldn't bother, it's quite long.

>> No.8931664

>>8931498
I'm curious about the definition with which you are familiar; how would you define deconstruction in contexts such as this one?
I'm using a definition that I've found to be common, although it may very well be incorrect. A fairly concise breakdown is given here, with expanded info on the "Analysis" tab below the title:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction
My understanding of this use of the term is that it goes a bit beyond mere subversion, by instead intentionally disregarding (rather than doing the opposite of) expectations and treating the elements of the trope as just stand-alone elements of a story . I.e., the girl is shy, but she isn't meant to be "the shy girl" and bring all the baggage that entails, rather, Hanako is a full character who just happens to have shyness as one trait amongst many.
I think the KS example is a little muddy because the authors were also intentionally trying to subvert, but they went beyond that by fleshing out her psychology and treating her behavior as more than just a twist. They wanted to (in my belief, again, I lack the grounding you mention) make a broader point about love-interest character psychology, not just surprise people with a bait-and-switch ending. For what it's worth, someone not familiar with the trope wouldn't feel subverted, because Hanako doesn't rely on the player having that familiarity in order to "correctly" engage with her or derive meaning from the route. If you are familiar, then you're at higher likelihood for being subverted, so in a way they accomplished both tasks without hindering either audience.
I would be happy to learn another, or more precise, use of the term. I also noted down what you said about the prologue, and I'll be sure to treat it as my cut-off.

>> No.8931672

>>8930941
Kakyuusei

>> No.8931702

Is there a vn for normies that is sfw, or do i have to be a weeb neet to enjoy it

>> No.8931917

>>8931702
Famicom Detective Club

>> No.8931973

>>8931702
phoenix wright ace attorney

>> No.8932163

>>8930941
really?! which one? PC-98?

>> No.8932226
File: 128 KB, 640x360, s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8932226

>> No.8932236
File: 72 KB, 640x400, Doukyuusei-220211-122452.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8932236

>>8931672
Well why the fuck not

>>8932163
The remake is getting a translation. It's supposedly tamer than the original release but it should be still good/

>> No.8932241

>>8930969
Honestly, if you did a line by line comparison like that for most fan TLs you'd get the same result in a lot of cases. People just tend to not do that.

>> No.8932312
File: 102 KB, 579x510, yukoismad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8932312

>>8930941
About time. Can't believe it hasn't been done yet desu. Being one of the pioneers of the date sim genre back in 1992. Even Tokimeki memories for the SNES got a translation first 2 months ago

>> No.8932383

>>8932312
Shit version of a good game.

>> No.8932425

>>8931353
I'd love a Yu-No "remake" that basically strips all the interesting stuff out of it and leaves all the tedious stuff behind.
It probably still wont be "fun" but would at least be more tolerable to play.

>> No.8932579
File: 216 KB, 640x480, Bible_Black_-La_noche_de_walpurgis-_203.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
8932579

If you don't read these games in the original Japanese you may as well not even bother. Just download a CG set and wank to the pictures.

English translations of Japanese are hot garbage in general. It's not that big of a deal in games where the gameplay is first and foremost but when you read a translated visual novel you're reading multiple novel volumes worth of poorly translated diarrhea that in most cases has little to do with the original text.

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