Retro Visual Novel Thread

[Anonymous No.8907064]

Last time was fun... let's do another one of these

This thread is dedicated to the discussion of older visual novels and date sim games

More exciting news! YU-NO for the PC-98 now has an English patch! (which I have no idea how to make it work)

[Anonymous No.8907116]

Have a pity bump. I dislike VN because of the lack of gameplay. The graphics are usually nice, though.

[Anonymous No.8907345]

Post anime tits

[Anonymous No.8907352]

There seem to be a lot of this genre on PC Engine CD... any good ones?

[Anonymous No.8908110]

>>8907352
No idea about PC-Engine CD but the PC-FX is also full of them. Some of them got English fan translations like Pia Carrot which is probably one of my favourites ever

[Anonymous No.8908193]

I want to thank whoever shilled Castle Fantasia 2 on the previous thread. I am having a blast with this game. I can combine my visual novel autism with my turn-based stratergy autism. it's great!

[Anonymous No.8908197]

>>8908193
The graphics look pretty neat for the time it was released too. Was it like 2001 or so?

[Anonymous No.8908305]

>>8907345
There's boards for this ya know?

[Anonymous No.8908574]

>>8907064
>YU-NO for the PC-98 now has an English patch!
Uh, hasn't this been out for a while? I remember playing a translated version like ten years ago. Or are you talking about the actual PC-98 version? Either way, best OST ever.

[Anonymous No.8908792]

>>8908574
I am talking specifically the PC-98 version. but I can't get this shit to work. The patcher refuses my YU-NO PC-98 file.

[Anonymous No.8908878]

>>8907064
I don't know how to explain it, but I like the aesthetics of these early 2000s VNs. Ever17 is my favorite.

[Anonymous No.8908883]

>>8908878
Played Remember11 yet? It's even better in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.8908908]

>>8908883
I have yet to play it yet, but I'm definitely planning on playing it. What makes it better than Ever17 to you?

[Anonymous No.8908921]

>>8908878
It's really bright and cheerful (I mean, when shit isn't hitting the fan). I think that's ultimately the appeal of most VNs; an excuse to spend time with a bunch of fun characters in a neat place.

>>8908883
Different poster, I never felt that way. I remember the art style aging much less well. I think the story was much less clear, and even once you put it together, the twist wasn't as compelling as in E17, which still remains the most ingenious mindfuck I know (didn't see it coming, yet it's so simple and explains almost everything once you know).

The more miserable setting of R11 also just wasn't as pleasant or fun to spend time in, and I don't feel like the story became drastically more compelling as a result. I didn't hate it, and it's probably the reason I drink black coffee to this day, but that was about my only takeaway.

[Anonymous No.8909046]

>>8908878
Neat, haven't heard about this one. Hope it runs on my retro Windows 98 machine that I put together last week

[Anonymous No.8909124]

>>8909046
You can find the official English release for free just by Googling it. It was released in 03 so it might work. I'm not sure about the compatibility between Windows releases

[Anonymous No.8909161]

what games harness that windows 2000 gaming energy the best?
I strongly associate moeblob VNs with that early 2000s windows. I don't know why. Its the first thing I think of when people mention versions of windows from that time

[Anonymous No.8909190]

>>8907064
Not quite retro but this thing just got translated https://vndb.org/v1272

Is it worth a look? Looks kinda like Wanko to Kurasou which I loved.

[Anonymous No.8909576]

>>8909190
I remember back in the day there was a lot of screenshots of this game circulating around the internet especially as youtube music video thumbnails, it looks like it has good art at least.

[Anonymous No.8909608]

>>8907064
What game is she from? I swear I've played it before...

[Anonymous No.8909615]

>>8909608
She's from the novel "Come See Me Tonight" for windows (2003)

[Anonymous No.8911373]

>>8907064
What the fuck did I just read?

[Anonymous No.8911380]

>>8909161
Anything from the early 2000s with big full screen shiny graphics like One: Kagayaku Kisetsu e, Shuffle!, Yin-Yang X-change alternative and ToHeart 2

[Anonymous No.8912242]

>>8911380
Why is ONE: Kagayaku Kisetsue e so fucking comfy? It's funny because when I read the VN I didn't even enjoy it that much, I found it kind of dull. And yet despite that, I have really fond views of it. I think there's something about it that captures the peak of the 90's anime sim atmosphere

I also love Apple Projects rearrangement of the OST:
https://youtu.be/csQlEfrPk04

[Anonymous No.8913071]

>>8911373
A great doujin sound novel by Ryukishi07. Something that should have been a niche for certain people but it got extremely popular.

[Anonymous No.8914186]

>>8913071
I meant Chapter 3 in particular, it was even more intense and engaging than the last 2

[Anonymous No.8914654]

>Join a VN company
>Push out a full game in 3 months
>Get shit on for low quality
>What fucking quality are these losers expecting from erotic games
>Make another game in 3 months that subtly makes fun of the degenerates who play this crap
>Massive success somehow
>Do the same thing 3 more times
>3 games made in these 2 years are among the most foundational in the genre
>Still being copied, extending the genres lifespan 20 years
>Output is so insane it makes musician friend have a breakdown
>Refuse to elaborate further
>Die

[Anonymous No.8915627]

anyone able to help me out with what game these are from?

[Anonymous No.8915672]

>>8915627

YU-NO: A Girl Who Chants Love at the Bound of this World

[Anonymous No.8915703]

>>8914654
My man was absolutely based

[Anonymous No.8916273]

>>8915627
Left: the soul version of Yu-No for the PC-98
Right: the shitty remake for windows from the 2010s

[Anonymous No.8916923]

What VNs are these

[Anonymous No.8916932]

>>8916923
The middle is Sayonara wo Oshiete.

[Anonymous No.8917027]

>>8916932
Left = Tsui no Sora
Middle = Sayonara wo Oshiete
Right = Jisatsu no Tame no 101 no Houhou

[Anonymous No.8917369]

>>8909161
games to consider, YMK, Utawarerumono, Sharin no Kuni, Da Capo, ToHeart2

[Anonymous No.8917937]

>>8908574
Isn't the Windows version basically exactly the same besides coom?

[Anonymous No.8917946]

True Love,
Seasons of Sakura,
Runaway City
Three Sisters

[Anonymous No.8917968]

I recognize that girl

[Anonymous No.8917986]

>>8917369
>Utawarerumono
Fuck you nigger I'm still crying
I'M STILL FUCKING CRYING AND THE TEARS WON'T STOP
UUUWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[Anonymous No.8918153]

>>8917946
Based. For me it's Mayumi Kamijo, my slutty 90s waifu

[Anonymous No.8918170]

>>8917986
>>8917369
>Utawarerumono combines turn based autism with eroge
I'm interested. Tell me more. Is it anything like fire emblem?

[Anonymous No.8918425]

>>8918170
It's like Shining Force and FFT but with big detailed sprites like late La Pucelle. It's about if Feudal Japan came back if the word were destroyed. There is tons of talking, but it can be skipped real quick because it's filler. Game is fun, and interesting, but ultimately tragic. There are 3 games 1 from 2004, 2 from 2014.

[Anonymous No.8918707]

>>8918425
Am I actually missing anything playing it on Vita without the porn?

[Anonymous No.8918739]

I've been playing Ichigo Mashimaro on the PS2. I was motivated to do so after hearing that it's... strange. Conceptually.

So, you play as this twenty-year-old man and childhood friend of Nobue (also twenty) and have come back to your hometown for your summer holiday and want to see Nobue while you're at it. Nobue spends her time hanging out with her twelve-year-old sister and her friends, whom are swiftly introduced to you.

And so we have the goal of the game- to first befriend and later go on a date with one or more of these children (Nobue is not an option, only the kids).

It's the realistic quality to the interactions with the kids which makes it weird I think. These aren't your typical precocious dating sim lolis, the mashimaros are very innocent (this is an All Ages game, incidentally) and your interactions with them are mostly awkward, if nothing else. You build up the courage to go to little Miu's house after having bumped into her in the park a few times and mumble an 'Uh... I was wondering if... uh... you'd be interested in hanging out or something i-if you're not too busy...?' over the intercom, both character and player acutely aware of the wrongness of a twenty year old man asking a little girl to hang out with him and asking themselves what they are doing- and so comes the response:
'Sorry onii-san, actually I am a little busy right now...'
'O-oh... okay... maybe some other time...'

Anyway, I called Miu on her phone last night and have arranged to take her to the pool tomorrow. She didn't seem very keen on the idea though...

[Anonymous No.8918772]

>>8918739
That sounds like it doesn't fit the tone of the source material at all. Although it is obviously the same target market. Are you enjoying it?

[Anonymous No.8918825]

>>8918739
IMO it's trash.
>Based on a pretty mediocre anime
>THE N5 VN if ever there was an N5 VN
>Most of the event scenes are extremely short (some of them take longer to load than the actual event lasts)
>a run of the game can be cleared in 2-3 hours (and that's even taking your time)
>It's boring as FUCK, but that's a good thing if you're just using it as Japanese reading practice since there's not much to give a shit about here
Downsides
>it IS boring/not that interesting, which kind of sucks
>no backlog
>no auto-skip for previously viewed text
>pretty random/luck-based for certain event occurrences (unironically a lot of the event scenes have a 50% chance of extra stuff happening, just randomly, with no indication as to which scenes/when/how)
>you can go through multiple runs without unlocking all of the possible locations where events can be viewed, which can be frustrating
>the volume balance is fucked by default and you'll need to crank the BGM volume all the way down to 10% and the voice volume to 100% to hear shit clearly.
Not really recommended. It's a game that tries to be a comfy summer break simulation but completely forgets to be comfy. It's also poorly documented even by JP players, and 100%'ing the game seems like it'd take a lot longer than it's worth.

[Anonymous No.8918876]

>>8918707
You don't get the 2D characters in a 3D world that is peak sovl. Other than that they took out the cringey porn scenes.

[Anonymous No.8918947]

>>8909161
Kanon is the game you're looking for

[Anonymous No.8918980]

>>8909190
>Patch available via discord
The modern internet is going to kill so much content.

[Anonymous No.8919456]

>>8918707
16:9 ratio
somewhat improved battle balance
more bonus battles at the end
new translation
new soundtrack option that takes bgm from the sequels (personally I use the original option which relies more on ambience)

[Anonymous No.8919547]

>>8919456
I don't need a translation but the Vita version does sound better. I am sure I can watch the porn parts elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.8919553]

>>8919547
http://sagaoz.net/ has the cleared save files for original and DVD versions, if you're curious you can just watch the scenes from there.

[Anonymous No.8919556]

>>8918153
Reminder there's nothing wrong with liking sluts.

[Anonymous No.8919562]

>>8918980
I know. It's going to be terrible. People will think we entered some sort of dark age.
It's the same with substack putting blogs behind a wall.

[Anonymous No.8919569]

>>8919562
>going to be
I see you are an optimist, anon!

[Anonymous No.8919614]

>>8919569
I try to be.
It seems major websites are making it harder and harder to preserve content.

[Anonymous No.8919626]

>>8919614
Honestly if I could bother to get a good array of hdd/ssd/whatever, I'd start gathering whatever I care about already.
Things are getting worse slowly but surely. You still can find things online, but it's getting unreasonably harder.
Even things you take for granted, like that one 10+ year old video on youtube you love rewatching to lift the mood - may be already gone with no recovery.
I had to download few MADs via some internet archive fuckery and I got lucky, not everyone is.

[Anonymous No.8919640]

>>8919626
>I had to download few MADs via some internet archive fuckery and I got lucky, not everyone is.
I had to do that with some mod tracker files. Luckily there's still ModArchive and Modland FTP, but there's no telling when they'll go as well.
For the cost of an external/one more internal if it fits HDD you could save nearly everything you care about.
As long as you don't get stupid and hoard a 2TB hard drive should hold everything you care about.
I had a time recently trying to find a download of Rocky Horror Picture Show that had Superheroes at the end.
I think if you're sensible about it, everyone should become an archive. But the issue will soon become the bloating size of files and an inability to share it. Jason Scott might be able to make textfiles.com, but could someone do the same with videos as affordably as he does that?

[Anonymous No.8919670]

>>8919640
>I think if you're sensible about it, everyone should become an archive
well I filled my hdd to a certain capacity, but I personally don't usually have time or energy to organize everything out there. Creating an archive is an effort not everyone is capable of.
I keep things I deem relatively rare (I still have few dvds of dodjinshi non-h games from old ass comiket) and try to keep some torrents up, but that's about it. 3 TB total is not that much turns out if you want your taiwanese cartoons.

Anyway, I just mean to spread awareness that if you have spare energy and motivation, you probably should start gathering stuff.

[Anonymous No.8919674]

>>8919640
I keep putting off backing everything I want up because I travel so much. Maybe I should buy a house with a rape dungeon just so I can lock a few dozen terabytes in a fireproof safe in it.

[Anonymous No.8919681]

>>8919670
The thing is what interests me isn't that big so I could get away with less storage really.
But for a lot of people who have 10s of GB here, 10s of GB there, it really adds up.
>>8919674
Just get an external HDD, or an internal one with a caddy. How much space does that really take up even in a backpack or whatever?

[Anonymous No.8919684]

>>8919681
Yeah because I am going to travel the world and go through airport security with a HDD full of terabytes of loli doujins.

[Anonymous No.8919690]

has there ever been a single good visual novel, what is the appeal of them?

[Anonymous No.8919696]

>>8919690
anime tiddies.

[Anonymous No.8919697]

>>8919681
>The thing is what interests me isn't that big so I could get away with less storage really.
I mean that's good, may as well have it burned on dvd or stuff, won't hurt.
I have bought myself dvd drive recently, may be not the greatest tool and discs itself surely are not as good, but it's something
>>8919684
just put them in sustem32, no one will know
>>8919690
>what is the appeal of them?
to read

[Anonymous No.8919701]

>>8919696
what is the appeal of them? i dont jerk off to drawings, i'm a man

[Anonymous No.8919719]

>>8919701
It's like a JRPG without the battles. I started playing them for Japanese practice but like them for their own merits now. Play the first case of Phoenix Wright, it will take you about an hour and you will know whether you see anything of value or not by the end of it.

[Anonymous No.8919721]

>>8919719
I dunno if Phoenix Wright is good example of run down the mill VN

[Anonymous No.8919783]

>>8918772
I guess? But probably not for the reason the creators intended.
>>8918825
>The most N5 VN if ever there was an N5 VN
Pretty much yeah.

I think everything you say about it is true (especially the volume balance being fucked, that was an unpleasant few minutes until I could access the settings menu. Did the play-tester have his hearing aid switched off?).
Definitely not something I plan on 100% or even playing more than once.
I'm going to confess my love to Miu and that'll be enough for me.
Additional note: The game cost me ￥589. About the same as the cheap hair accessory I bought at the in-game supermarket with which I'm hoping to woo Miu over on our date.

[Anonymous No.8919802]

>>8919690
I like cute little girls doing normal everyday stuff, having the "iyashi" escapism appeal
I also like cute little girls engaging in very age inappropriate behaviour

VNs combine those for me.

[Anonymous No.8919824]

>>8919802
Title?

[Anonymous No.8919826]

>>8919802
Incredible, That deep, men plunging in... There, filling my eyes.

[Anonymous No.8919853]

>>8919826
What did she mean by this??

[Anonymous No.8919858]

>>8919826
jouzu as fuck

[Anonymous No.8919897]

>>8919719
>Phoenix Wright
ah i got you, i liked what i played of that game, where you have to listen to a witness and whip out a piece of evidence relevant to what they're saying and they start stammering, i liked that

[Anonymous No.8919898]

>>8919802
anon, have a seat in that there chair over here..

[Anonymous No.8920214]

>>8919858
Thanks now give me the sauce.

[Anonymous No.8920246]

>>8920214
Tanabe Kyou

[Anonymous No.8921493]

I had a hell of a time to get some of these visual novels to work both on my Windows98 machine and Windows 10 one. I should set up a YouTube channel with guides on how to set them up. Some of them can be quite tricky and not obvious at all

[Anonymous No.8921876]

>>8921493
>I should set up a YouTube channel with guides on how to set them up. Some of them can be quite tricky and not obvious at all

Unironically please do that, you would be providing a community service. Also, please shill it here if you do make it so I can subscribe

[Anonymous No.8922867]

>>8921876
Thanks for the support mate. I might really do that. I am not aiming for a huge audience, it's all about helping a couple of other fellow autists getting some 90s 2D tiddies on their screen. Now, I just have to find a screen recording software that works well on my Windows98 P2 350MHz for comparison reasons

[Anonymous No.8923632]

>>8921493
for some reason LTSC is quite reliable for those jap late 90s early 00s Windows games. Both versions of ToHeart, Hajimete no Orusuban, fucking Bible Black, it handles them no sweat

[Anonymous No.8923874]

>>8908193
Play the Utawarerumono (aka Underwater Ray Romano) series.

[Anonymous No.8924579]

>>8923632
Lad you had no idea the things I had to do to get some of the games. There was one game where I was just about to give up trying to make it work because there was no info in English on how to make it work but I found some French weeb autist community in the last second and somehow got it to work despite my limited French (3rd language)

[Anonymous No.8924678]

Dumb question but can YU-NO (and PC98 games in general) be played with 100% controller? I want to emulate the sovlfvl version on a chink handheld.

[Anonymous No.8926438]

To this day YMK is the most comfy VN I have read

[Anonymous No.8926514]

>>8919690
>has there ever been a single good visual novel
Not retro but yes
https://www.gog.com/en/game/full_metal_daemon_muramasa

[Anonymous No.8926574]

>>8926438
Is the PSP homebrew port English only? How odd.

[Anonymous No.8927605]

Lakers is in English now.
https://archive.org/details/lakers_en_complete
https://gbatemp.net/download/pc-98-holy-girl-force-lakers-english-patch.37463/

[Anonymous No.8928669]

>>8927605
Cheers mate. OP here. Hopefully this will be easier to patch than Yu-no which I can't get it to work for shit

[Anonymous No.8928734]

>>8919690
I've only played one, Katawa Shoujo, and I enjoyed it quite a lot. I was mostly impressed by the quality.
It's also free, not outrageously long, and originally written in English. I thought it was a solid 9/10, and an experience unlike what I have had before from either novels or video games.
Most VNs I see mentioned give me the impression that they'd be too cringy to have a good story, too focused on porn to be meaningful, or too based around weeby tropes to have interesting characters.
I keep checking these threads though, in case something grabs my attention.

[Anonymous No.8929391]

>>8928669
Both are pre-patched on the PC-98 translation archive: https://archive.org/details/nec-pc-9801-translations

[Anonymous No.8929540]

>>8929391
Thanks for the link. Quality stuff. I'll spend the whole weekend on this shit now

[Anonymous No.8929960]

>>8928734
>Most VNs I see mentioned give me the impression that they'd be too cringy to have a good story, too focused on porn to be meaningful, or too based around weeby tropes to have interesting characters.

Here are some VNs I would recommend that don't have any of the problems you mentioned:
Narcissu (especially the first one, but Side 2nd is also good)
Swan Song
Sayonara wo Oshiete (Reddit criticized the translation to the point the guy took it down, but it's not a horrible TL, and you can find it here:
https://erogedownload.com/downloads/sayonara-o-oshiete/))
Saya no Uta
Symphonic Rain (If you're looking for something more relaxed, at least before all twists start coming along)

Yume Miru Kusuri is also pretty good. The character designs seem pretty anime, but the characters are very realistically human

[Anonymous No.8930039]

>>8928734
if you liked katawa shoujo, you may like narcissu, especially the second one. It's hard to tell what turns you off though, because to me, katawa shoujo is full of typical VN tropes, just executed with a western-style "flawed character" flavour to character writing. You might like swan song for a similar style of character writing, but the setting is pretty different. the other anon's recs are overall pretty good and also pretty varied in genre. definitely worth checking out.

[Anonymous No.8930480]

>>8929960
>>8930039
>Narcissu
This is on my try-list, because it was mentioned as an inspiration by at least a couple of the Katawa Shoujo devs. I will take your guys' recs into account as well, especially since you both mentioned Narcissu and Swan Swong. Thank you for the suggestions.
I felt like KS was almost a deconstruction of (what I imagine to be) typical VN tropes at certain points, even if it kept to them at many other points where appropriate. I appreciated that KS wasn't just "guy picks up cute girls for sex scenes", rather, it had legitimate characters (beyond flawed, they felt fully realized and complex, and not just used as plot devices) and actual themes and messages tied to the emotional moments. The kinds of things I expect from a high quality "normal" novel. In short, I'd like to find a VN that is not merely entertainment.
The other ones I see mentioned a lot are, of course, popular ones (Muv Luv series, Fate/Stay, and Umineko).

[Anonymous No.8930495]

To The Moon is nearly a retro VN.

[Anonymous No.8930941]

>Play a few routes of Dokyusei
>Week later it gets a translation announced
What game should I play next bros? I've got an unexplained gift

[Anonymous No.8930969]

>>8929960
>but it's not a horrible TL
Yes it is.

[Anonymous No.8931232]

>>8918825
Mediocre? This is the best anime ever.

[Anonymous No.8931343]

>>8930480
>Deconstruction
People using this term is my biggest pet peeve of online discussion. It's almost always used by someone who decided to engage with a work they wouldn't otherwise and ended up enjoying it. Then, rather than change their viewpoint on what the work's progenitors may have to offer, they assume that [insert title here] must be some brilliant attack on the common cliches, a victorious battle against all the mediocrity that had come before.
The dating sim genre as we know it today got its start in 1992 with the release of Dokyusei. Four years later in 1996, YU-NO is released, and one of its main themes is analyzing the relationship between the player and the fictional characters in these girl games. And there were other works before that did the same, but less prominently. If I were to take the term "deconstruction" as is commonly (but erroneously) used, then I could say that there have existed visual novels deconstructing the tropes of other visual novels and dating sims for as long as the dating sim has existed.
But I digress. My main point is that it is far too common to see people play a visual novel that is well executed and slightly changes the common cliches (Katawa Shoujo, Doki Doki Literature Club), and believe it's a genius subversiom when in reality it's just another work you think is parodying something that hardly exists. In a way, I blame the way a lot of visual novels use the mystery format, since it's very common for them to present themselves with a cutesy exterior that is later darkened, only for those who don't actually play these take at it at face value.
Anyways, I would like to give you a good recommendation but it's hard when you come into it with such low expectations. If you're serious about wanting a VN that's not merely entertainment then I would suggest the 1996 YU-NO. The cultural critic/philosopher Hiroki Azuka described it as a "meta-level girl game", which seems close to what you mean by deconstruction.

[Anonymous No.8931353]

>>8931343
When I suggest YU-NO I want to be clear that it's only worth it if you're serious about not looking for something entertaining, as that would be the last thing I'd describe it as. Interesting, foundational, culturally impactful, yes. But far more grueling than entertaining.

[Anonymous No.8931394]

>>8931343
I hope I didn't use it incorrectly. As I stated, I'm imagining tropes for the genre since I've only played one game, and that not even from Japan, so I only have impressions to go off. Lacking experience, I imagine that many games have, for example, a "shy/scared girl" that you stand up for and help out, eventually earning her love in turn. Your relationship will implode if you try that in KS, though, and I got the impression that the authors will intentionally trying to trick people into falling for that trap. I felt they wouldn't have attempted this unless the trap was an easy one to fall into -- e.g. if they expected some portion of the audience to have been trained to expect the opposite outcome. There are other examples, but that's the kind of thing I had in mind.
I will give YU-NO a shot; I've heard it referenced before here and there. I trust your judgment, and I'll pray that I can get past the "grueling" parts. I don't believe a game needs to be mind-blowingly fun at all moments, but no one wants to sit through hours of tedium in order to collect sprinkles of quality.

[Anonymous No.8931498]

>>8931394
Words evolve over time and I'm willing to accept that the term deconstruction has become synonymous with subversive, and I believe that's how you were using it. My issue was more with how it tends to be used by those without much grounding in the genre/medium it's used in. As if the term is just a justification for one's initial assumptions.
The KS example you give is an interesting one, but in my opinion it sounds more chained to the tropes than escaping them. If it's relying on you expecting a cliche then it doesn't really matter if it follows it to the end or not; either way it's using a common idea to get it's point across. It's not that hard to do the opposite of what one is expecting, in fact it's as simple as adding a single "not". You help the shy girl by defending her vs you help the shy girl by not defending her. A permutation of the commons. This isn't to say Katawa Shoujo is bad for doing this but rather it shows that the archetypes it's using are a solid foundation.
As for YU-NO, I would play the prologue and use that to decide if you like it or not. If it doesn't capture you in that time then I wouldn't bother, it's quite long.

[Anonymous No.8931664]

>>8931498
I'm curious about the definition with which you are familiar; how would you define deconstruction in contexts such as this one?
I'm using a definition that I've found to be common, although it may very well be incorrect. A fairly concise breakdown is given here, with expanded info on the "Analysis" tab below the title:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Deconstruction
My understanding of this use of the term is that it goes a bit beyond mere subversion, by instead intentionally disregarding (rather than doing the opposite of) expectations and treating the elements of the trope as just stand-alone elements of a story . I.e., the girl is shy, but she isn't meant to be "the shy girl" and bring all the baggage that entails, rather, Hanako is a full character who just happens to have shyness as one trait amongst many.
I think the KS example is a little muddy because the authors were also intentionally trying to subvert, but they went beyond that by fleshing out her psychology and treating her behavior as more than just a twist. They wanted to (in my belief, again, I lack the grounding you mention) make a broader point about love-interest character psychology, not just surprise people with a bait-and-switch ending. For what it's worth, someone not familiar with the trope wouldn't feel subverted, because Hanako doesn't rely on the player having that familiarity in order to "correctly" engage with her or derive meaning from the route. If you are familiar, then you're at higher likelihood for being subverted, so in a way they accomplished both tasks without hindering either audience.
I would be happy to learn another, or more precise, use of the term. I also noted down what you said about the prologue, and I'll be sure to treat it as my cut-off.

[Anonymous No.8931672]

>>8930941
Kakyuusei

[Anonymous No.8931702]

Is there a vn for normies that is sfw, or do i have to be a weeb neet to enjoy it

[Anonymous No.8931917]

>>8931702
Famicom Detective Club

[Anonymous No.8931973]

>>8931702
phoenix wright ace attorney

[Anonymous No.8932163]

>>8930941
really?! which one? PC-98?

[Anonymous No.8932226]

[Anonymous No.8932236]

>>8931672
Well why the fuck not

>>8932163
The remake is getting a translation. It's supposedly tamer than the original release but it should be still good/

[Anonymous No.8932241]

>>8930969
Honestly, if you did a line by line comparison like that for most fan TLs you'd get the same result in a lot of cases. People just tend to not do that.

[Anonymous No.8932312]

>>8930941
About time. Can't believe it hasn't been done yet desu. Being one of the pioneers of the date sim genre back in 1992. Even Tokimeki memories for the SNES got a translation first 2 months ago

[Anonymous No.8932383]

>>8932312
Shit version of a good game.

[Anonymous No.8932425]

>>8931353
I'd love a Yu-No "remake" that basically strips all the interesting stuff out of it and leaves all the tedious stuff behind.
It probably still wont be "fun" but would at least be more tolerable to play.

[Anonymous No.8932579]

If you don't read these games in the original Japanese you may as well not even bother. Just download a CG set and wank to the pictures.

English translations of Japanese are hot garbage in general. It's not that big of a deal in games where the gameplay is first and foremost but when you read a translated visual novel you're reading multiple novel volumes worth of poorly translated diarrhea that in most cases has little to do with the original text.

[Anonymous No.8932663]

>>8932163
Remake came out last month on Steam in multiple languages

[Anonymous No.8932687]

>>8932579
>it's not the writing that's shit
>it's just the translation
>"ohhh senpai foogle my love hole!" can only be truly understood for the genius it is in the original language

[Anonymous No.8932690]

>>8932687
Based

[Anonymous No.8932692]

>>8932687
h-scenes make up like 5% of the text in your average vn

[Anonymous No.8932695]

>>8932687
Nah it's not like all VNs have great writing in Japanese. But if you read them in English there's no way to tell in the first place.

[Anonymous No.8932703]

>>8932687
Still salty your beloved Patreon scammer got exposed? After all those years?

[Anonymous No.8932745]

>Retro VN thread
>No Galaxy Angel.

Where my angelbros here? Galaxy Angel is highly underrated, being an RTS game similar to Homeworld.

[Anonymous No.8933395]

>>8932703
I don't follow EOP drama, is there a funny story here?

[Anonymous No.8933436]

>>8932745
OG Vanilla was so damn cute
I don't really approve what the anime did with her, though I still had fun

[Anonymous No.8933470]

>>8932579
true, if youre serious about visual novels theres no way around learning japanese

[Anonymous No.8933479]

>>8932745
I never watched this anime or played the official games before but I absolutely love the Galaxy Angel Date Sim game on Newgrounds.com
It's the best shot I've ever played. I highly recommend checking it, you'll laugh your ass off

[Anonymous No.8933494]

>>8932579
>If you don't read these games in the original Japanese you may as well not even bother. Just download a CG set and wank to the pictures.

>English translations of Japanese are hot garbage in general. It's not that big of a deal in games where the gameplay is first and foremost but when you read a translated visual novel you're reading multiple novel volumes worth of poorly translated diarrhea that in most cases has little to do with the original text.

[Anonymous No.8933548]

>>8933494
seethe

[Anonymous No.8933795]

>>8931702
Machi

[Anonymous No.8933995]

The "you have to read them in Japanese" always comes across as a cope to me. Rather than admit that they're badly written they make some argument about how there are subtleties that can't be translated.

[Anonymous No.8934095]

>>8933995
I'm not talking about subleties though I'm talking about the majority of the text being abused to the point of unrecognizability. Honestly this is a problem inherent to all kinds of translations but it's especially pronounced for Japanese otaku media because Japanese is so far removed from English that it's ball-bustingly difficult to translate and the translators who work on these kinds of projects simply aren't good enough at (1) comprehending the Japanese and (2) transferring it into well-written English.

[Anonymous No.8934101]

>>8933995
nah, >>8932695 is right. With so many VN translations you're fed a complete rewrite. Not that you can't enjoy it regardless, but when you criticize a translated VN, you're not criticizing the author's writing skill, but some third guy's handiwork.

[Anonymous No.8934697]

>>8932383
I wish they did the Saturn version but the snes is just so easily to emulate and the files are so tiny and it's probably the easiest to edit the text as well.

[Anonymous No.8934775]

>>8934095
>ball-busting difficulty
>translators somehow can't comprehend the kinds of things an elementary schooler would understand
>let alone render a readable English version of it
the kinds of people who take up translation of entertainment media are an incredible disappointment to mankind.

[Anonymous No.8934783]

>>8907064
What's the TG one with 2 sequels? X-change? I played it back in the day. It was so far late at night and only when I could care less about gameplay so I don't even remember if it had nudity, just that it was a TG themed visual novel

[Anonymous No.8934795]

Have any of you heard of maigo no kimochi by foster? It released in 98 and I was obsessed with it when I was in HS in 99 because the main girl looked like my then gf. I found a site that would burn vn's to a cd for 5 dollars cash. I took the risk and finally got to play through the thing and not just gawk at screen shots. That was such a journey back then...

[Anonymous No.8934803]

>>8932745
ANGEL TAI LETS GO!!!

[Anonymous No.8935598]

>>8934775
>the kinds of people who take up translation of entertainment media are an incredible disappointment to mankind.

Even for official translations they often hire dopes. A good friend of mine was raised bilingual Japanese/English, has a college graduate's grasp of both languages, and even has the paperwork to prove it (near perfect JLPT N1 and TOEIC scores), but got rejected from several translation positions because of
>lack of experience

[Anonymous No.8935991]

I wanna read a retro VN because I like the art for them and it would be nice to at least read the plot once but I have no idea where to start

[Anonymous No.8936062]

>>8934697
I'm thinking the Windows version might be the easiest to translate but I don't really know anything about computers. Plus the Windows version is pretty wonky looking.

To be honest I think to begin with Tokimeki Memorial is ugly as sin but that just might be me

[Anonymous No.8936365]

>>8935991
There have been plenty of suggestions in this thread. And it also partly depends on when you define retro. Symphonic Rain and Saya no Uta are both great and they are nearing 20 years old, so I would suggest giving them a shot.

It is worth mentioning that the Steam release of Symphonic Rain is a remaster. Personally I slightly prefer the original art, but other than that it's basically the same experience.

[Anonymous No.8936880]

>>8931664
Not that anon, but traditionally, the term "deconstruction" has been used in the study of literature and language, and it's always been a very flimsy term. There has never been an exact definition, even by its coiner. The Wikipedia article on deconstruction is surprisingly in-depth.
When all this YouTube essays started coming up that deemed many works as "deconstructions" I was terribly confused, because none of those were ever related to the term "deconstruction" as it is studied in college.

[Anonymous No.8937606]

Has anyone read Machi? What an amazing game and it has like 3 reviews on vndb.

[Anonymous No.8937697]

>>8937606
no translation

[Anonymous No.8938113]

>>8932745

[Anonymous No.8939115]

I'm recording videos on how to get these old novels to work on both new and old computers (Windows 10 and Windows98) and I'll be posting the first one soon

[Anonymous No.8939851]

>>8939115
Nice, that deserves a bump. If this thread does die before you manage to upload though, please post a link in the next retro VN thread

[Anonymous No.8939965]

>>8939115
Why videos instead of articles?

[Anonymous No.8940017]

what usually fit as a retro VN? were the limit on PS2?

[Anonymous No.8940325]

>>8914186
It all goes downhill after 03.
06 was a suprising bullrun but it quickly dips for the rest of the arcs.
Overall nothing seriously tops Onikakushi and you would honestly not miss much if you stopped there.

[Anonymous No.8940353]

>>8933395
It was like three years ago IIRC. Someone made a Patreon for PC98 translations. Released two or three patches. Obviously terrible translations, made up shit, missing full lines from the Japanese text etc. Then someone found mistakes that perfectly matched Google Translate and it became clear the guy doesn't know any Japanese at all.

EOPs cried and defended him cause fake shit is better than nothing appearently.

[Anonymous No.8940360]

>>8914654
and who is this handsome gentleman?

[Anonymous No.8941536]

>>8939965
There are some things that are best explained through video, especially that one novel I had to edit the registry manually

[Anonymous No.8941538]

>>8907064
Based thread, OP. We need more of these.
>>8940360
Hiroyuki Kanno, creator of Yu-no, Desire, Eve Burst Error, Xenon, had a part in Fatal Relations, and more. The aforementioned musician was Ryu Umemoto. Sadly, they both died young from overworking.

[Anonymous No.8942006]

>>8939115
Thanks Anon, I'm looking forward to your video!

[Anonymous No.8942091]

>>8940353
That is fucking hilarious. I am pretty sure he wasn't breaking any laws.

[Anonymous No.8942435]

>>8940353
>EOPs cried and defended him cause fake shit is better than nothing appearently.
I'd still say that having something is still better than nothing, but it's just needs to have correct label what it is. If you just google translate and put it all in, okay, just describe it as so.
We all watched at least few shows with HK subs, and enjoyed them nonetheless.

Sure good and proper translation is always preferable, but beggars can't be choosers. There is a lot of obscure media out there which hardly got any english attention, like power pro series outside MLB spinoff. And a lot of it - never will be translated. 65%
Of course in case above it was quick get rich scheme, so whoever did it can fuck right off.
And other cases don't mean anyone should defend bad english translation, no, regardless paid or not, volunteer work or not, you should always tell someone how they fucked up, instead of being scared shitless that you'll 'hurt' them.

[Anonymous No.8942827]

>>8942435
>you should always tell someone how they fucked up, instead of being scared shitless that you'll 'hurt' them.
This. As a fan translator myself, I welcome harsh criticism because sometimes you legit just fuck up, miss a reference, or some other shit that jacks up the TL.
And ripping me a new asshole is the quickest way to see those mistakes corrected. You bet the same cock up won't get made again, either.

[Anonymous No.8943026]

>>8942827
That's nice but why fan translate anything? I don't get the mentality at all. I didn't learn Japanese to work for free spoon feeding people who obviously care less than I do about Japanese games.

[Anonymous No.8943057]

>>8943026
It's just something I do in my down time at work when I have nothing else better to do. I don't devote an insane amount of time to it, and I only work on stuff that I think is reasonably special and worthy of sharing with others. What I don't understand are the romhacking types who barely know Japanese (if at all) who get in over their heads and butcher the translations on anything they can get their hands on.
I also just do it and quietly release the stuff I work on. I figure if it's good enough to stand on its own two legs, people will discuss and share it among themselves without me having to be one of those dumb meme romhacker/translatorfags who is just in it to chase clout or whatever.

[Anonymous No.8943094]

>>8916923
Denpa gods...

[Anonymous No.8943190]

>>8939851
>>8942006
I've just uploaded my first video, there's more to follow shortly
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCcbW500QCjikiQWVvOm1fg

[Anonymous No.8943192]

>>8942006
>>8939851
I've just uploaded my first video. There's more to follow shortly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAC8yQNOexI&t=32s

[Anonymous No.8943241]

>>8943026
machine translate a bunch of games, and then laugh with your friends when you show them posts on 4channel seething at your hackjob

[Anonymous No.8943550]

>>8942435
Yeah, whatever. Just like all those rewrites of doujins tagged "rewrite" on Exhentai, sure.

Except the guy was acting like he's actually translating stuff for real. His Patreon was about how he's preserving and bringing old games to more people etc.
And he wasn't like this guy >>8942827 He clearly knew no Japanese at all.
And yet EOPs clamored for him.

[Anonymous No.8944305]

>>8943550
>Except the guy was acting like he's actually translating stuff for real. His Patreon was about how he's preserving and bringing old games to more people etc.
see
>Of course in case above it was quick get rich scheme, so whoever did it can fuck right off.
Nowhere I did say that it's alright behavior.
>And yet EOPs clamored for him.
don't use broad strokes.
I can't read japanese aside of simplest stuff, so I'm thankful for translations, however when I see shit translation, I tell it's shit if capable off.
Hell, I still remember one and only time I contacted publisher with feedback cause I got pissed that Xenoblade X replaced term "doll" on "skell".

Just cause some people can be content that there is some sort of english version, it doesn't mean they are blind and will take whatever.

[Anonymous No.8946006]

>>8943192
nice! thank you for this. I can now play Castle Fantasia to work. looking forward to more videos if you're planning to.

[Anonymous No.8946013]

Second video released. For those interested in knowing more about installation of visual novels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5g9je6Q5ec

[Anonymous No.8946749]

Just posting this cool website someone mentioned in the previous thread where you can play the classics online
https://tss.asenheim.org/en/

[Anonymous No.8948395]

Has any of you played the Evangelion novels? how are they like?

[Anonymous No.8950409]

>>8946013
Nice. Haven't heard of this one. might give it a shot. Maybe you should also make a video on how to run PC-98 games.

[Anonymous No.8950761]

>>8950409
that's the easiest thing in the world, there are multiple foolproof emulators for it out there.

[Anonymous No.8951721]

バンプ

[Anonymous No.8951886]

>>8948395
I played some of Girlfriend of Steel 2nd, the in-name only sequel to the original, a few years ago. It was whatever. Just kind of an okay AU. It's pretty short. There are some cute moments and out there endings. The original, I'm really looking forward to playing, though. Haven't gotten to it yet because, from what I know, it's closer to Evangelion's tone, and I just haven't been in the mood for that sorta game.

[Anonymous No.8951898]

Now this is a thread!

[Anonymous No.8953572]

I have been playing Da Capo 1 and 2 lately.

[Anonymous No.8953672]

>>8953572
I've played the psp versions for a bit and watched the adaptions, honestly a cozy and underrated series

2 weeks already? Shit