/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.887953]

Why was this game so much better than every single console RPG that come out before it?

[Anonymous No.887959]

Final Fantasy VI was released before Chrono Trigger. Your argument is invalid.

[Anonymous No.887962]

>>887953
>opinions

[Anonymous No.887963]

It had varying degrees of at least quality storytelling for its time.

It had a variety of different endings, so if you wanted the best ending you felt compelled to be more "completionist" instead of just rushing through the main game.

The sprites and effects were neat, and the music & sounds were amazing.

[Anonymous No.887974]

>>887959

[Anonymous No.887986]

Likable characters, interesting time periods, god-tier music, dual and triple techs, no frustrating random battles, story that feels deep but isn't overly convoluted.

[Anonymous No.887990]

>>887953
Because you're too fixated on audiovisuals to see the shallow gameplay.

[Anonymous No.888001]

>>887990
And you obviously have very niche tastes. Good for you for letting us know.

[Anonymous No.888019]

>>888001
>saying that one hugely popular game doesn't happen to have particularily good gameplay in comparison with other games of the genre
>"And you obviously have very niche tastes"
No, I just see games for what they are.

[Anonymous No.888028]

>>888019
>comparing same turn-based gameplay with other same turn-based gameplay
gg

[Anonymous No.888031]

Because it got rid of fucking random encounters.

It's a hateful fucking institution that actively discourages exploration.

Shall I go explore that path? Nah, better not. I don't feel like being here for another 45 minutes.

What the fucking actual fuck.

[Anonymous No.888035]

>>887986
>Likable characters
more like generic DBZ rejects

>interesting time periods
generic time travel locations

>god-tier music
except for a few tracks completely unmemorable

>dual and triple techs
nothing new

>no frustrating random battles
instead you had fixed inescapable battles, with no accessory to avoid/reduce them

>story that feels deep but isn't overly convoluted
top kek, the story is a complete mess

[Anonymous No.888045]

>>888035
I'm not that guy, but unavoidable encounters?

You can just run the fuck past the vast majority of them.

[Anonymous No.888046]

>>887953
Even most JRPGs that come after it. There's just so many things about CT that should have been in ALL new games by now. Example being no transitions to another battle screen.

[Anonymous No.888047]

>>888035
Take off the fedora and go outside.

[Anonymous No.888050]

>>888028
Except there's more to a game than the base principles of its battle system. 95% of Chrono Trigger you can finish without using any other combat actions other than <insert your current strongest attack> and heal. Also the fights should be shorter in CT, especially the trivial ones. And there's also the completely linear character advancement that allows for no variation besides choosing your party members - out of a pool of 7.

[Anonymous No.888053]

>>888031
You should play some Might & Magic

[Anonymous No.888056]

>>888035
You do understand how ridiculous it is to bemoan Akira Toriyama-esque characters designs in a video game with characters designed by AKIRA FUCKING TORIYAMA?

[Anonymous No.888060]

>>888047
>boo hoo somebody doesn't like my objectively good game

[Anonymous No.888061]

>>888056
He's too hip to be square, bro. He can't like things that other people like because his perceived intelligence won't allow him to.

[Anonymous No.888064]

>>888056
>Akira Toriyama-esque

They're the same fucking copypaste shit everywhere. That's not a style, that's plain laziness. He even copied Bulma fucking TWICE.

[Anonymous No.888065]

>>888047
>Take off the fedora

I don't even have one, all the rabid CTards bought them all up.

[Anonymous No.888068]

>>888065
>Liking an insanely popular video game.
>Hipster

I don't...

[Anonymous No.888074]

>>888068
And /v/ is back.

[Anonymous No.888073]

>>888068
>zelda
>immensely popular
>worshipped by hipsters everywhere

[Anonymous No.888075]

>>888068
>hipster

[Anonymous No.888082]

>>888073
You're right man.

Just like Call of Duty's massive hipsterbase. Or Football's. Or... breathing's.

[Anonymous No.888090]

>>888082
Call of Duty isn't played by people wearing ironic NES-related T-Shirts and nerdy glasses in Starbucks

[Anonymous No.888095]

Pacing.

It had better pacing than any RPG before it.

[Anonymous No.888109]

Why would you take your hat OFF to go outside?

[Anonymous No.888118]

>>888095
I agree with this statement, but that hardly makes CT the best game of anything.

[Anonymous No.888117]

The casual hipster gamer's game of choice.

[Anonymous No.888125]

>>888117
I miss the times when games were judged on account of what they are instead of the social status of its fanbase. Not even a fan of CT.

[Anonymous No.888124]

Lufia 2 is better than CT

[Anonymous No.888135]

>>888125
>I miss the times when games were judged on account of what they are

Clearly nothing CT ever was subjected to

[Anonymous No.888139]

>>887953

I love Chrono Trigger, but it wasn't genre defining as you seem to propose.

[Anonymous No.888156]

CT is only hailed as the greatest because dumb people aren't willing to play any other JRPGs save FF7 and maybe Earthbound

[Anonymous No.888205]

>>888064
I didn't want to post here but I honestly like his art style. Modern JRPG's have a shitty looking style imo and his style always seemed simplistic in a good way.

[Anonymous No.888220]

>>888205
It's not bad but the samefaces get really old fast.

[Anonymous No.888232]

Chrono Cross was better.

[Anonymous No.888238]

>>888232
Yes but you can't have Cross without Chrono.

[Anonymous No.888241]

>>888238
And? That doesn't negate the fact that Chrono Cross > Chrono Trigger.

[Anonymous No.888261]

>>888035
>except for a few tracks completely unmemorable
I can't remember anything that isn't the battle with Magnus in the castle. Nothing really stood out.

>instead you had fixed inescapable battles, with no accessory to avoid/reduce them
Not all of them were like that, but there were plenty of staged battles that you couldn't avoid and they weren't boss battles. It is a bit annoying.

[Anonymous No.888263]

>this thread

I hate you /vr/.

Chrono Trigger is great. End of. You just have to ruin it by nitpicking

[Anonymous No.888265]

>>888263
>start thread with the following text: "Why was this game [CT] so much better than every single console RPG that come out before it?"
>not expect backlash for it
If OP just wanted to circlejerk over the game, he could've just written so in his post. The way he worded it sounds more like he's baiting.

[Anonymous No.888273]

>>888261
Well there's Gato's song and the intro song, and uhh that's it kinda, every other song that sounds decent sounds like they lifted it straight from SoM.

[Anonymous No.888276]

>>888263
From what I seen of /vr/ this board is light years better than what /v/ has become. It is doubtful /v/ kiddies these days have even played a single game from the Snes.

[Anonymous No.888280]

CT is a great game.
You shouldn't base your opinions one way or the other based on the opinions of other groups of people.

If not, you aren't any better than the very same "hipsters" you criticize.

CT was a solid game, it may SEEM more groundbreaking than it was because:

1) It was released in North America/Europe

2) On a home console AND one of the big two of the time.

3) It was correctly advertised.

In other words, it was a great game many had the chance to enjoy during the era that it was released.

Like retro games because they are good, hate them because they are bad.

Fuck other people's opinions.

[Anonymous No.888284]

>>888273
This song has always been most memorable for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SONfQStB7uE

[Anonymous No.888285]

>>888280
Alright then, I'll dislike Chrono Trigger because it's a pretty shit game.

[Anonymous No.888304]

>>888280
>It was released in North America/Europe
But that's wrong.

[Anonymous No.888305]

>>888284
Sounds like ..something mixed with FFIV

[Anonymous No.888337]

http://videogamegeek.com/thread/771444/a-trip-back-in-time-that-doesnt-go-so-well

[Anonymous No.888345]

But there were numerous Dragon Quests prior to this. In fact, this game was complete and utter fucking shit.

[Anonymous No.888349]

>>888337
>The other new element that Chrono Trigger brings to the ATB system is double/triple techs.

Yeah, no.

[Anonymous No.888357]

>>888263
But Chrono Trigger ruined itself.

[Anonymous No.888359]

>>888064
As if a game as bad as Chrono Trigger deserved any serious effort.

[Anonymous No.888363]

>>888064
wat if someone was in a house when they make it into a pill
and then bulma put it in her butt

[Anonymous No.888405]

>>888359
>>888357
>>888345
So much samefagging
You may not think CT was the best game ever but to call it utter shit is fairly over the top

[Anonymous No.888415]

>>888405
>>888359 (You)
>>888357
>>888345

[Anonymous No.888417]

>>888345
>In fact, this game was complete and utter fucking shit.
You're making it sound like Dragon Quest actually

[Anonymous No.888428]

CT is one of the only RPGs I can get myself to actually finish. That being said it's pretty retarded to think it's some incredible groundbreaking RPG. It was fantastic but didn't do much of anything particularly new.

I don't understand why this game has such a rabid fanbase.

>>888284
>mfw I happened to be listening to the OST when I saw this thread
>and when I saw this post I was on this song

[Anonymous No.888430]

>>888428
>I don't understand why this game has such a rabid fanbase.

My first RPG syndrome

[Anonymous No.888434]

>>888241
Cross Killed the series. That is why there will never be another one.

[Anonymous No.888440]

>>888434
>wrap up a story
>killing it

wut

[Anonymous No.888474]

Now that we've established that everyone in this thread is in their 20s, I'll give the perspective of someone who first played it at about ~25 years old. (when it came out)

-Time travel that actually changed events in other timelines (I compare it to Ultima 2, which I played as a child)
-The mystery of multiple endings (The glory of this is eradicated by the internet, which was only beginning to crystalize as this game appeared.)
-Characters interacting directly with each other in battle
-The anticipation of combining your attacks powerfully, after learning more things
-The choice of choosing very specific character archetypes, rather than the magicuser-fighter-blob of a final fantasy game.
-New game+ (a completely new concept in this gametype, akin to cheating): bear in mind that cheating is now effortless in modern gaming, this entire idea of a console game letting you cheat in this fashion was groundbreaking.
-Magus: also a new concept, however trite it may appear now. Magus was legitimately the boss of the game and he joins your party.
-And finally, the single best soundtrack of any rpg up to that time. Only Secret of Mana was a conteder, with FF 4-5-6 being far behind it in quality.

You may sneer at the idea of games that are good in their time period because of their incomparable innovation (Megaman 2 is another excellent example), but then don't pass the test of time, but this is a reality.

Compare Doom and Street Fighter 2. Doom is still good now, SF2 is not. But SF2 probably added more dimension to gaming itself than doom did. Doom just did something well, which is why it is currently the superior game. But SF2 is more important historically.

[Anonymous No.888483]

>>888474

SF2 for me was so more important than Doom growing up. But in today's world there are more FPS than fighting games.

Chrono trigger was amazing for people that grew up on Final Fantasy because of the whole change to the battle system. I felt that Chrono Trigger was actually an improved version of Secret of Mana. I mean Chrono and Secret of Mana dude look almost the same.

[Anonymous No.888484]

>>888474
>FF 4-5-6 being far behind
Well thats like, your opinion, man.

[Anonymous No.888487]

>>888474
>Doom
>Still good

Doom aged terribly. Street Fighter 2 aged well. I would argue that Doom is more important, historically, than Street Fighter 2.

In fact, I literally disagree in the exact opposite on all of your points. So, which of us is the real Superman, and which of us is Bizarro?

[Anonymous No.888490]

>>888031
Amen.

[Anonymous No.888491]

>>888474
>Mega Man 2
>incomparable innovation

[Anonymous No.888503]

>>888487
>Doom aged terribly
Disagree. Aside from the fact that it has the most user-made content out of almost any game ever made, it's still one of the most fast-paced shooters and its (default) enemy variety has a neat balance of hitscan enemies and projectile dudes. The level design is still very good, hell, have there been more than ~4-5 FPS games with comparable or better level design than Doom?

[Anonymous No.888507]

>>888487

>SF2 introduced combos that changed fighting games forever at their most base DNA-level
>Doom perfected Wolfenstein

Nah, SF2 is more important by far than Doom.

[Anonymous No.888512]

>>888503
Have there been more than ~900-17,000 fighting games with comparable or better butterfucks than Street Fister?

[Anonymous No.888515]

H-hey guys I hate Chrono Trigger am I cool yet?

[Anonymous No.888523]

>>888276
Is this where we're at now? First it was nes, then snes, soon it will be n64, gamecube, and wii.I don't what it is with people whose favorite consoles are nintendo. It's like they are incapable of venturing beyond their own belief system.

/vr/ needs to be more about experiencing and discovering all of the good (and bad) about all games. Not just relishing the few games we played in our youth.

[Anonymous No.888520]

>>888507
Alright, I secede. Street Fighter 2 both aged far better and is more historically relevant than Doom will ever be.

[Anonymous No.888521]

Doom is the only good fps that exists, it is the only one that is still worth playing

IT IS ALSO THE ONLY ONE THAT STILL HAS NEW MAPS MADE EVERY WEEK

CHECKMATE DOOMHATER

Doom is irrelevant historically because the genre already existed. It's only significance is that it was so fucking good that people made a lot of copies of it, that all did terribly. (Heretic, Strife, Blood, etc) It was only when the formula was super-simplified, the style dumbed down, babee-storee-time added, that we got infinitely multiplicative dogshit like half-life, quake, and call of duty.

And no, SF2 is shit dude. You should try actually playing it. Dragon punches don't knock down. Most of the attacks aren't properly fleshed out, and characters can be shut down completely with a basic understanding of the moves and hitboxes. Guile and/or Dhalsim beat everyone without even trying. You're judging based on your memory. The sequels to SF2 are the ones that exhibit the quality you're imagining.

[Anonymous No.888527]

>>888521
Sonic the Hedgehog is the only good fandom that exists, it is the only one that is still worth masturbating to.

IT IS ALSO THE ONLY ONE THAT STILL HAS NEW ORIGINAL CHARACTERS MADE EVERY DAY

CHECKMATE SONICHATER

[Anonymous No.888536]

>>888521
So...what you're saying is that Doom is grandpa's call of duty? It is the pleb's wolfenstein?

[Anonymous No.888531]

>>888507

a post like this confirms that you aren't even following the discussion

I'm drawing a distinction between games that are important within their time period, vs games that remain good, to illustrate that chrono trigger is good within it's time period, and can't be expected to seem great now that everything has copied it

Admittedly, this is the wrong place to introduce a concept more complex than GOOD GAME BAD GAME RAWR

[Anonymous No.888534]

>>888523
What do you mean few?

[Anonymous No.888540]

Ya know what game aged really well? Ogre Battle 64. Final Fantasy Tactics. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the devil is my hairdo.

[Anonymous No.888538]

>>888521
>Doom good
>Quake bad
Wat

[Anonymous No.888547]

>>888536

he's right.

[Anonymous No.888543]

>>888527

you can reply to jokes but you cant reply to thought

[Anonymous No.888546]

>>888540
>Ya know what game aged really well? Ogre Battle 64.
Yeah, if your favorite pastime is watching paint dry.

[Anonymous No.888556]

>>888538

half self-damage was the first icy step down the road of compromise

its true that it led to the unintentional (and absurd) rocket jump, but that could have been implemented some other way

half self-damage was added simply to make aggression more mindless

from there it was all downhill

you can trace the steps, one at a time to:
one weapon
one enemy
one environment
realism, not creativity
a narrative that guides you
no choices
no health bar
no resource management
etc

quake 1 was where it started, and half life was the first step off a very steep cliff

[Anonymous No.888576]

>>888556
By that train of dumb logic, Doom was where it started, because it provided a blueprint that the rest of the genre took to mutate.
Do you really believe that changing up a bunch of minor mechanics is really supposed to completely ruin the original game?

[Anonymous No.888594]

>>888546
Actually, my favorite pastime is playing Ogre Battle 64. You should try it. But you won't.

[Anonymous No.888597]

>>888531

But it does still seem great, even after having played things that copied it before playing CT itself because of just how solidly CT is put together.

It's hard to fit into that comparison for me, honestly. SF2 and Wolf seem more like prototypes nowdays, not through any fault of their own, but because they were really blazing new ground, and that rarely works so well on the first try that it stands the test of time for people who weren't around to see it originally. I feel like CT can be played through by anyone who likes JRPGs and still be enjoyed to a high degree of how enjoyable it was in it's time frame because it doesn't feel like a prototype when put against those newer games.

Of course, that's partially because JRPGs have seen less major change over the years than fighters and FPSes.

[Anonymous No.888621]

>>888594
I already did. Ended up playing another game alongside it while OB64 took up to about 10 minutes for anything to hapen in it.

[Anonymous No.888627]

>>888621
>Not having an invested interest in how things are playing out on the battlefield.

WRONG.

[Anonymous No.888654]

>>888627
Except everything is happening so slllllooooooowwww that I barely need to pay attention to anything, relatively speaking.

[Anonymous No.888660]

I've been waiting to post this link for a while so screw it, this thread is on topic enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmhrknkBZLE

[Anonymous No.888668]

>>888664
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmhrknkBZLE
>Chrono Trigger Rap
Nope.

[Anonymous No.888664]

>>888654
Did you not think to increase the speed? You can do that.

[Anonymous No.888680]

>>888660

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKWFvbgkWls

[Anonymous No.888810]

>>888521
>It was only when the formula was super-simplified, the style dumbed down
Actually the formula is pretty simple in Doom. You run around, sometimes use cover, find weapons and ammo, kill demons, and find key cards to progress. It is simple, and because of the engine it is even more so but without the engine it wouldn't have been a hit because level design before Doom was just very dull. Because of height elevation and radically different shapes to rooms, it propelled Doom to be an excellent FPS which really hurdled the genre into the spot light. Hell, I'd go far enough to say that FPS games before Doom weren't bad, but completely hindered by limitations thus the reason in having poor level design.

Look at most FPS games after Doom, they add different complexities like sometimes destructible walls, or a different inventory that gives you jet packs, torches, or what have you. Doom is basic, but that isn't a bad thing.

[Anonymous No.888838]

Oh well, we had a pretty good run with /vr/. 90% shitposts in one thread, I'd bet my right hand that /v/ would do a better job at discussing this game.

[Anonymous No.888853]

>>888838
>People don't agree with me.
>Must be shit posting.
Go back to /v/.

[Anonymous No.888854]

>>887953

>DQ games came out before it

I find myself playing through DQ games a lot more than I do CT. Went through CT once, got a ending that I felt good in, and just kind of left it at that.

[Anonymous No.888862]

Wasn't ChronoTrigger, Square's biggest project at the time?

All the lead RPG designers collaborated on it and it was one of the last JRPGs for the system. It came out in 1995, which was basically the last year before the N64 rolled around.

Such a shame there was never a PAL version - we had to wait until the DS to play that game legally.

[Anonymous No.888878]

>>888853
It's not about the opinions, it's about the quality of the posts. Most posts in the beginning of the thread discuss the fanbase and then there are quality posts like "CT is utter shit" and so on.

I realize that meta-posts like that make it worse, but I was kind of nauseated after reading through the first half of the thread.

[Anonymous No.888896]

>>888862
People seem to forget this fact, sadly. Chrono Trigger was indeed developed by what was considered a one-time Dream Team that could never come together again given today's circumstances, so it's a "well no shit it's good" sort of deal.

[Anonymous No.888935]

>>888534
Relatively speaking, I doubt there are many people who played more than 50% of the library of a console like the nes or snes as a kid, unless they had something like Sega Channel or they/their parents bought a new game every every week.

I'm still discovering 'new' and fun games I missed out on when I was younger. It seems a lot of people 'know' every good game that ever came out, but I want more people to dare to discover new games with they same sort of open mind they had as a kid.

[Anonymous No.890015]

>>888862
>we had to wait until the DS to play that game legally.
No matter how much old $ony wished it wasn't so, imports were perfectly legal, so were console mods.

>>888896
Too many cooks spoil the broth.