/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8864694]

Dracula X > Super Casualvania IV

[Anonymous No.8864702]

>>8864694
Dracula X = Super Castlevania IV = Great

[Anonymous No.8864703]

Falseflag thread, but anyway I like both games, as I do like Bloodlines and Rondo, and X68000. The 4th gen had really good classicvanias, maybe the best if not for the fact CV1 and 3 are also perfect.

[Anonymous No.8864706]

castlevania 4 is much better if you start from the castle

[Anonymous No.8864724]

>>8864703
I love them all too but X68000 gotta be the best

[Anonymous No.8864759]

>>8864694
This is the only thing you and I agree with, Australia

[Anonymous No.8864765]

The shills have gotten to me, I'll play this fucking game alright. Do I emulate the pc engine version or snes

[Anonymous No.8864767]

>>8864759
What the fuck? You can just duck and they won't damage you? Can you do this in Rondo as well?

[Anonymous No.8864770]

>>8864765
Both, they are different games

[Anonymous No.8864773]

>>8864765
They're different games altogether. SNES Dracula X is called Dracula XX in Japan. It's based on Rondo's story and uses some of the same sprites but the whole game is new.
I'd say play in release order, Rondo of Blood on PCE first, XX on SNES later, as it is also much more difficult.

[Anonymous No.8864774]

>>8864767
It's not the ducking, it's the i-frame.
The only reason i'm ducking is because in this game, you don't get knocked back when you get hit when ducking (as long as you're not attacking at the same time) so it's become a reflex

I'm amazed at how so many people don't know this. It's video game logic 101, if the player is immune when flashing, why should it be different for enemies? Pretty much every action game that has flashing i-frames (that isn't Euro jank) is the same

[Anonymous No.8864789]

>>8864774
>if the player is immune when flashing, why should it be different for enemies
Mind blown, now I understand. I didn't even realise you used his i-frames to prevent him from damaging you. It made me think that he didn't have a hitbox below his arm or something

[Anonymous No.8864859]

>>8864767
i-frame bruh.

[Anonymous No.8864905]

>>8864694
No, Dracula X is the worst game in the series by far. Not because it's not Rondo but because it's a bad game.

[Anonymous No.8864968]

>>8864905
>plays like classicvania
>has challenging levels and cool bosses
>"it's a bad game"
anon maybe you don't really like classicvania.
most fans of the series agree that, while may not be their top favorite (though it may be to some) it's still a good entry in the series.
Thinking it's "a bad rondo port" is also an old NPC uninformed opinion that thankfully it's parroted less and less as more people actually play Dracula X SNES instead of just believing internet strangers or journos.

[Anonymous No.8865978]

>>8864968
>anon maybe you don't really like classicvania
>most fans of the series agree that, while may not be their top favorite (though it may be to some) it's still a good entry in the series
I like Dracula X and even I think you can fuck off.

[Anonymous No.8865993]

>>8864968
What is Dracula X better than? I don't hate Dracula X but it's worse than it's immediate contemporaries Bloodlines and Rondo. It's worse than Castlevania III. Even if for whatever reason you think it's better than Super Castlevania IV, it's mid-pack at best. It's better than the Game Boy games, I guess.

[Anonymous No.8867021]

>>8864724
PSX port too

[Anonymous No.8867026]

>>8864765
Pc engine is the better game overall but the snes one is also ok

[Anonymous No.8867038]

>>8865993
It doesn't matter which other game I think is subjectively worse (although I think some are objectively not that good, like the first GB game, or Haunted Castle), what I mean to say is that, no matter which CVs are your favorites, if you like the series, I find it hard to believe you loather or dislike DX that much, as it is another totally playable Classicvania game that I rank along with the other 16-bit ones, doesn't matter which one I like a little bit more, a little bit less, they're all good.

[Anonymous No.8867340]

>>8864694
Objectively no, but I too prefer Drac X

[Anonymous No.8867607]

Shinobi X > Shinobi 3.

[Anonymous No.8867681]

>>8864765
Play PC engine and if you're really interested after then play SNES.

Dracula X is nothing special really.

[Anonymous No.8868974]

>>8867038
>it is another totally playable Classicvania game
This is a big part of it for me. It's not like The Adventure where you have to have almost the entire body of Christopher hanging off the edge before you jump.

[Anonymous No.8869985]

>play Ganbare Goemon Gaiden 2
>no idea what I'm getting into except I played the first game which was only okay

>suddenly a wild Simon Belmont appears
>he joins the party

BASED
A
S
E
D

[Anonymous No.8870106]

>>8867607
Only if you don’t use the Jap/US ost
The PAL version takes it up quite a bit in quality

[Anonymous No.8870456]

I genuinely don't understand why Super Castlevania IV has garnered so much backlash in recent years.

[Anonymous No.8870476]

>>8865978
>>8865993
Kek, you know anon know states the true.

[Anonymous No.8870491]

Bloodlines is the best 16 bit castlevania

Better graphics, better controls, not censored by retard

[Anonymous No.8870542]

The boss fight with dracula at the end is inexcusable. Platforms on top of dealing with dracula? Utter madness. Is rondo like this? Currently playing it and loving it.

[Anonymous No.8870549]

>>8870542
Get good, if you had done that you would have realized you don't get knocked back when crouched and there are places where you won't get knocked back into pits either way

[Anonymous No.8870559]

>>8870456
I don't know either. I played them all up to the Advance ones as they came out and SCIV is by far my favorite with CIII being second and the original third. It beats SotN and Rondo.

Dracula X is not a great game. It's more difficult than the NES iterations but not in the same way other than the stiff control scheme. DX plays like a max difficulty hack of Rondo and that's basically what it is. It's also the start of the Castlevania anime style while the first 4 games were a tribute to the classic horror movies stylistically and done in a Gothic style.

Rondo isn't that great either, the graphics, music and atmosphere are a clear step down from SCIV and everything it does that SCIV doesn't CIII does better. Like Final Fantasy V, it gained legendary status largely because it didn't see a US release on the original console.

People like to complain the SCIV is too easy but then go gaga over SotN which isn't challenging at all. One third of the way through SotN before Alucard is OP as fuck and most of the game thereafter is about trying to maintain his OPness with powerups and items. The only way I find SCIV easier is the unlimited continues. I think they should have had either the unlimited continues or the password system but not both.

[Anonymous No.8870584]

>>8870559
CV was always inspired by anime. You need to watch Vampire Hunter D

>fight vampires using a whip
>enter vampire lord castle, fight Jaguar/Panther in the first hall
>fall into a floor trap
>fight Medusa
etc
Then CV2 copy pasted Dracula's visual design from VHD also, SotN took the "jump riding a horse into the castle through a half raised bridge" sequence, Rondo and SotN took the "bored vampire lord playing itting on his throne" routine, in fact the entire throne room in Rondo looks like it used the one from VHD as a reference as the only difference is literally the missing heads on the pillars.

[Anonymous No.8870602]

>>8870559
I think Rondo has worse controls than DX (Richter of course)

[Anonymous No.8870656]

>>8870559
>People like to complain the SCIV is too easy but then go gaga over SotN which isn't challenging at all.
The thing that especially bothers me about this is that SCIV's Second Run has a really nice difficulty curve that's more in line with the NES games, but most people don't even know Second Runs are a thing.

[Anonymous No.8870660]

>>8864694
Just enjoy both instead of having to autistically rank everything you like

[Anonymous No.8870726]

>>8870660
Some people like to pretend to be offended by things so they get (You)’s. Sadly there’s no cure for narcissism.

[Anonymous No.8871812]

>>8870549
Does it say anything in the manual about the whole crouching thing? I just gave it a once-over and don't see anything, and if that's the case, then fuck off, the only other classicvania I can even think of where crouching reduces knockback is maybe Rondo. That's unintuitive and contrary to typical classicvania and you know it.

[Anonymous No.8871827]

>>8870456
It's mostly a vocal minority in contrarian forums. Mind you IV is still consistently a fan favorite among actual Castlevania fans, see any poll on the Castlevania Dungeon forums.
But if you want a real answer as to why modern internet likes to parrot silly stuff about IV's difficulty and design... it's because of Egoraptor. His Sequelitis videos has 5 million views and sadly he's very popular. He also could never finish Castlevania IV, he gave up on stage 8 after dying over and over, heh.

[Anonymous No.8871861]

>>8871812
>the only other classicvania I can even think of where crouching reduces knockback is maybe the game it was based after
anon...
that said it is a bit silly that that's a mechanic

[Anonymous No.8871873]

>>8864968
>anon maybe you don't really like classicvania.
no true scotsman
>most fans of the series agree
appeal to popularity
>Thinking it's "a bad rondo port" is also an old NPC uninformed opinion
"you disagree with me so you are NPC"
>>>/v/

[Anonymous No.8871878]

>>8871873
?

[Anonymous No.8871879]

>>8870456
I just chalk it up to petty assholery. That isn't to say that you just gotta love IV, different strokes and all that, but when it starts turning into saying it's shit, that's when it gets dumb for me. Bonus points if it's because it's easy, particularly compared to the other 16-bit games, because unless maybe you're batting for X68000, that's a dumb reason to be giving IV shit, especially given >>8870656.
>>8870584
>CV was always inspired by anime. You need to watch Vampire Hunter D
I see this here and there and I don't agree with it, especially given what I read on Hitoshi Akamatsu. Aside from maybe the Adventure games, the earlier games just don't give that vibe. From what I can remember off the top of my head, Hitoshi sounded like he just really loved western movies, and was possibly responsible for the Alien references in older Konami games because he encouraged everyone to watch it. Dude also explicitly loved Indiana Jones.

And the thing is, references are one thing, overall feel is another. I don't get anime vibes from the games prior to Rondo, I get western monster horror vibes through a Japanese video game company's lens. The games after Rondo and Symphony, sure, and even then to varying levels. Games like OoE and the N64 games versus PoR and PS2 games, for example.

[Anonymous No.8871883]

>>8870456
Contrarians.

Egoraptor made a video about how it's an ungraceful sequel (not a bad game, just wasted potential) pointing out its flaws and how it is easier than the other classic CV games, and the contrarian faggots started proclaiming that it's a bad game and only casuals like it because it's "easy" and "accessible"

it's literally just gatekeeping faggots hating it because it's not "le ebin super hardcore ballbustingly difficult clunky design SOVL" game like the NES games

[Anonymous No.8871886]

>>8871861
To be fair, I'm unsure because it's not something I ever went out of my way to take advantage of in Rondo since, well, it was never really necessary for me.
>>8871873
>most fans of the series agree
Who on earth is this guy even talking about, anyway? If anything, people like Dracula X are in a tiny minority.

t. someone part of that group

[Anonymous No.8871893]

>>8871886
Most of the "Dracula X haters" are just people who never played it and bought the whole "bad port of Rondo" meme.
Real Castlevania fans should have a hard time hating Dracula X is they actually play it, as it's a completely competent classicvania.

[Anonymous No.8871924]

>>8871893
>Most of the "Dracula X haters" are just people who never played it
I suspect that you don't actually know that for a fact. I wouldn't be all that surprised myself, but still.
>Real Castlevania fans should have a hard time hating Dracula X is they actually play it, as it's a completely competent classicvania
Fuck off with your disingenuous bullshit. Richer's walk is clumsy, his jump is faster for no good reason, there's wonky hitbox shit going on, and X in general has less than stellar level and enemy design in places requiring trial and error the likes of which you don't find in the other games, especially 1 and 3.

Probably the only thing in this post of yours in particular that rings true is the part about the bad port meme, it is unfortunate that people who know better will still write off X as being that when it's practically a different game, and personally, one that I prefer over Rondo despite its flaws.

[Anonymous No.8871945]

>>8871924
>I suspect that you don't actually know that for a fact.
sadly people are that predictable.
>Richer's walk is clumsy
In what way is it clumsy?
>his jump is faster for no good reason
I don't see a faster jump being a negative.
>there's wonky hitbox shit going on
where?
>and X in general has less than stellar level and enemy design in places requiring trial and error the likes of which you don't find in the other games, especially 1 and 3.
I don't remember trial and error, but while it's true that it has some annoying enemies, they all can be quickly overcome if you know what to do. Just like in any Castlevania game.
The way you're describing it I'm thinking of Haunted Castle, the arcade game, not Dracula X.

[Anonymous No.8871960]

>>8870491
>best sixteen bit
Castlevania Chronicles

[Anonymous No.8871986]

>>8871945
>sadly people are that predictable.
Yeah maybe.
>In what way is it clumsy?
Uncharitably slow and rough. Compare Rondo Richter's smooth powerwalk, or really just about any home console Belmont for that matter. Stuff like that is why I can never agree with the idea that someone who likes 1 for example simply must like Dr X as well.
>I don't see a faster jump being a negative
It's silly shit that reflects on how shoddy the game's design is, and in fact I doubt it was intentional. It just raises the question of why doesn't Richter move that fast in general, especially since that's how Castlevanias are usually designed.
>where?
I'm under the impression that centers around Richter, but I don't know that for a fact. Whichever way it is, the purple knights in stage 2 are harder than they're probably intended with a swing attack reaching further than it looks. I believe there's also something about Richter himself when he's crouching, whether it was his hitbox shrinking or shuffling further down I can't remember, but it may very well be why you can duck under Dracula's dual orb attack when you're lower than him. Good thing, too, that fight would probably suck way more otherwise.
>I don't remember trial and error
And I don't believe you. The sunken city level stands out for that one part, the one where you have to go down one side and climb back up on the other. Someone unfamiliar will probably eat a dumb hit from the mermen that jump up right as you jump down from one ledge to another. Obscured fleamen in the caverns getting the drop on you would be another example. There's probably other stuff, but by this point I'm so used to Dracula X that I can't remember.
>they all can be quickly overcome if you know what to do. Just like in any Castlevania game.
Your constant attempts to equivocate Dracula X with better games can be rather amusing.

[Anonymous No.8872052]

>>8871883
Ignoring contrarian faggots, there are people like me out there that just genuinely couldn't like the game. After finishing CV3, I tried out SCIV the next day and just hated it directly after the first stage. Didn't like the OST being more ambient, the boring new enemies like the golem that splits multiple times and is practically passive, and the crappy redesigns like the giant frog in the swamp from CV3 turning into a tiny little shit that you can't whip. There's also the bad enemy placement that didn't accommodate the new whip mechanics and throwing dagger being shittier compared to in CV3 where it was quite useful when playing through the game as Grant(which brings me to the next point of no side characters or branching paths in SCIV reducing replayability). CV3 I've managed to play a fuckton of times, counting nearly 80 times. I'm still waiting for another Castlevania like that but were never getting a proper Classicvania ever again.

>>8870656
Is there a password to start from the second loop? I don't want to force myself to slog through the game again.

[Anonymous No.8872070]

>>8872052
>There's also the bad enemy placement that didn't accommodate the new whip mechanics
I think it's less the placement and more the design. I've played through both loops without using the whip mechanics and not only was the second loop in particular actually pretty difficult for it, there were a lot of occasions if I remember right where you'd pretty much be eating a hit, especially at the top of stairs. Fuck skeleton knights and axe armors in particular.

Still, yeah, the actual enemy design often feels like and pretty much is something from the NES games, and it sucks because it'd super interesting otherwise.
>Is there a password to start from the second loop?
Diff anon, I think so? I have pics of passwords on my phone precisely for that sort of thing.

In fact, I decided to go ahead and google it, and this might prove useful for you.

[Anonymous No.8872102]

>>8864765
I got filtered i fucking hate these birds broke a controller because of this

[Anonymous No.8872220]

>>8872052
>I'm still waiting for another Castlevania like that but were never getting a proper Classicvania ever again
Play the Curse of the Moon games. Basically Castlevania III on steroids.

[Anonymous No.8872245]

>>8872102
birds always suck in vidya
probably use an axe or summit

[Anonymous No.8872301]

>>8872070
>less the placement and more the design
I bring up placement because there are some enemies in either the most bullshit spots, like the 3 crows directly above the stairs in that one level, or the skeleton dragons that sit in a spot where they won't harm you, wriggling about shooting at the wrong side of the screen in the section where you're headed to the water dragon boss. I also want to mention the crows are fucking tiny and hard to hit compared to the ones in CV3 similarly to the frogs, so you're going to get hit most of the time when assaulted by the trio twat squad.

>enemy design often feels like and pretty much something from the NES games
That wouldn't be a problem if they were used as well as they were in CV3 with each character having a different approach, but you fight them all the same fucking way since you're just a Belmont. They could've given us new enemy behavior like they did with Rondo with Spear knights attacking you from above and below, but they went the lazy route.

>password
Thanks dude, will try the Second loop.

>>8872245
Those birds were bullshit the first time encountering them, after a couple times though, you get really used to the way they move and can predict them.

[Anonymous No.8872384]

>>8872245
>>8872301
What I wanna know is how the fuck you conquer the skulls in 3's Second Loop.

[Anonymous No.8872394]

>>8872384
>conquer skulls
They're the only non predictable enemy in the game so you're going to have to rely on gut instinct for the most part if you don't have a specific character/ability. If you're Grant, you're gonna have to toss a hatchet at the right distance, dagger if you feel it'll come up. You can also hop over them or use a stop watch. Stop watch also works good for Alucard and Trevor. Sypha has the easiest time with her freeze spell being an AoE and all. Thunder is fine too.

[Anonymous No.8872407]

>>8871986
>Uncharitably slow and rough. Compare Rondo Richter's smooth powerwalk, or really just about any home console Belmont for that matter.

The speed value in 4 is 01 (high) and 40 (low), while the speed value in DXX is 01 (high) and 00 (low). Meaning, you're only walking 20% faster in 4 than you are in DXX

However, the speed remains the same when jumping in 4 while in DXX this same X direction speed goes up to 01 (high) and 50 (low), meaning you can be faster in DXX

in b4
>hurr durr jump all the time
The point is, calling the speed uncharitable is incorrect, because you can use the jump in DXX to go out of danger more quickly. It also makes for a more skillfull play since you're more vulnerable when jumping.

Webm is actually a great comparison point because the candles are placed at the exact same points and in both cases the first candle is exactly in the middle of the screen, the precise point when the screen starts scrolling.

For the jumping comparison, notice that I had to wait in DXX for the 2nd jump, meaning you can jump a second time in DXX before the first jump is even finished in 4.

[Anonymous No.8872410]

>>8872407
here is the point where the character is in DXX at the moment you reach the middle of the screen in 4. The difference really isn't big.

[Anonymous No.8872909]

>>8870456
It breaks a lot of conventions the other games share and had a reputation of being liked by 'fake fans' because it is easier than the other entries and pandering to people who want more 'normal' platformer gameplay over the castlevania style of high commitment jumps/linear attacks.

I honestly think Rondo is easier however it has much more engaging/fair gameplay than IV. IV goes from being totally trivial to relying heavily on 'bullshit' deaths from pits and hitboxes towards the end. I think IV really falls apart at the end while Rondo maintains quality level throughout.

I personally get a bit touchy about IV as well as I often seem to encounter people who make sweeping generalizations about the series and say that IV is the best one, but the reason usually comes down to the fact that they don't actually like how classicvania's play and like IV because it plays a lot less like one.

[Anonymous No.8872916]

>>8871924
I'm not arguing with you but where is the trial and error in X? I would put X together with 1 as the games that generally speaking always make hazards very obvious before you have to deal with them so they don't really have this issue. MAYBE the second shaft fight because some attacks aren't that obvious from the windup?

[Anonymous No.8872939]

>>8872909
when it comes down to it, all Castlevanias are different from CV1 (with the exception of CVIII if you do Trevor only).
Besides the obvious multi-direction whip, IV is still one of the most orthodox Castlevanias. For instance, you can't jump while you're climbing stairs, something that was changed in Rondo and completely breaks the purpose of the stairs.
I don't think it has to do with "real" Castlevania fans, as already stated, actual Castlevania fans do like the game. It's the bandwagoners who jumped into the series in recent years the ones who think IV is "too popular" for them to like it. New fans usually try to fit in so they search for games that, while still popular, are still somewhat considered "hidden gems" within a series, in order to feel more special. Rondo of Blood usually fits this bill because it still has the "Hidden Japan-only gem that westerners missed back in the day" label, while still being popular and considered one of the best, and I agree it's easier than IV.

[Anonymous No.8872976]

>>8864774
so the i-frame prevents from dealing damages too? that's not logical

[Anonymous No.8873113]

>>8871960
Isn't Chronicles 32-bit?

[Anonymous No.8873170]

One thing that pissed me off about Dracula X is that all the area loads are a cut to a black screen instead of the scrolling transition used in other games. It's completely irrational, but it feels weird and cheap and I suspect it was done to make creating levels faster.

>>8872410
That's still an entire Richter-length, but I think the issue with his walk mainly comes from them being too concerned with preventing foot-sliding, so they sped up his walk cycle which makes it look like he's struggling more to even move as fast as he does.

[Anonymous No.8873208]

>>8872916
I've seen people call segments like the crumbling bridge in stage 2 "trial & error" because they fail to have sufficient reaction time or use all the tools at their disposal. Though I would like to point out that trial&error isn't a flaw by definition.

>>8872976
Preventing damage is the main reason i-frame exist anon.

>>8873170
There are still some scrolling transitions but not many, it was done this way to have more varied and more detailed environments though. DXX has some of the vast varied and detailed environments in the series for this reason though it can make it feel like you're teleported around; and ironically the one place where you do get teleported around is the one in which background graphics stay mostly the same.

That's a good point about the walking animation speed. The animation is definitely too fast, which makes it *feel* slower than it really is.
Here is a quick video test, I modified the walking animation counter from 03 to 05 (the game counts to 05 instead of 03 before loading the next frame).

[Anonymous No.8873237]

>>8873208
Disregard this video, I was only changing the counter for one of the frames

Here is with the counter changed from 03 to 04 for each frame.

This also made me realize that in CV4 there seems to be a sort of "key frame", a frame that remains slightly longer, when Simon's front arm is in front of him; but there is no such case in DXX

[Anonymous No.8873330]

>>8873208
>Preventing damage is the main reason i-frame exist anon.
Preventing damage to whom, though?
The player and the enemy each have separate checks and logic (and HP yes) for whether they should get hurt by overlapping hitboxes.
This being an old game, they did not make separate code for the enemy's hurt box (where he can be hit by the player) and the enemy's hitbox (where his sprite will harm the player if the player comes into contact with it) Instead it's one single hitbox/hurtbox. Any time the enemy has an i-frame the hitbox is DISABLED to prevent further hits but is essentially a harmless background prop.

I think that's the reason for many people taking this with disbelief, because hitboxes and hurtboxes aren't necessarily the same (even in SoTN, or Mega Man EXE WS)

[Anonymous No.8873430]

>>8873330
>This being an old game, they did not make separate code for the enemy's hurt box (where he can be hit by the player) and the enemy's hitbox (where his sprite will harm the player if the player comes into contact with it) Instead it's one single hitbox/hurtbox

I don't even have to check the code to know that this is incorrect, see Spear Knights extending their spears to hit but you won't damage them if you hit the spears.

[Anonymous No.8874192]

>>8872407
I'm going to preface this with saying that I just played DXX for a short bit and found myself halfwondering why exactly I think the way I do about it, particularly in relation to the other classicvanias, been too long and I legit think I should fix that.

>Meaning, you're only walking 20% faster in 4 than you are in DXX
You make 20% sound low, and that would explain why I do, in fact, tend to jump quite a bit in XX.
>speed goes up to 01 (high) and 50 (low), meaning you can be faster in DXX
But doesn't that just highlight how awkward XX's jump speed can make things? Don't get me wrong, I totally get how that makes jumping a viable way to dodge attacks, but that would probably just mean typically jumping out of the way whenever an enemy attacks unless the game does something to not let me do that. That's actually something that I took issue with CV64 for, as much as I love that game; it really could really trivialize shit, especially since you can lock on and smack someone while jumping over them, even. I don't even remember it being particularly risky in XX so I don't know if I can agree with the idea of being more vulnerable while doing it, even if you're committed once you do. So yeah, may very well be hurr durr jump all the time, or most of the time, but even I'm sure there's more to it than that and intend to do a full playthrough of XX and the others.
>For the jumping comparison, notice that I had to wait in DXX for the 2nd jump, meaning you can jump a second time in DXX before the first jump is even finished in 4
Uh, maybe I'm blind here, but looks like Simon actually comes down first and it's the other way around.
>>8872410
That's a pretty big difference that will get way bigger as time goes on, barring speed jumps.
>>8872916
Honestly, aside from the examples I already mentioned, part of why I want to replay a bunch of games now is seeing where else I "remember" that sort of thing and why I have the impressions I do.

[Anonymous No.8874345]

>>8870660
I think there's room for ranking games, especially along personal preference, but yes, most of the time it's just a bunch of pricks engaging in pissing matches out of what frankly seems like a desire to control the discussion just because people can't be open and honest about both the pros and the cons of their favorite game, and sometimes like as if they've tied up their identities in it.

I for one am actually rather fond of Adventure 1 because I find its enemy and level design to be really engaging and enjoyable, even, but I could never recommend it to anybody because the player character design rather sucks what with how you lose whip power every time you're hit with no subs to help you, which does lead to some more dumb hits in certain situations, there's gotcha moments here and there that will likely fuck with you a lot on your first playthrough, and the game chugs like a motherfucker to the point of eating inputs at times.

But I do enjoy the game.

[Anonymous No.8875640]

>>8867681
>死ぬ!あなたがこの世界に属さないモンスター!

[Anonymous No.8875914]

>>8873237
That looks way better.

[Anonymous No.8875961]

>>8875914
>>8873237
Here is the modified ROM, mostly untested; I'll probably release this as a simple hack

anonfiles com/h8B6b9d4yb

I fucking love this game

[Anonymous No.8876015]

>>8874192
>But doesn't that just highlight how awkward XX's jump speed can make things?

I don't know, having jumps faster than walking is pretty common especially in beat em ups (and I've always said Castlevania is closer to a beat em up than it is to a platformer, the main focus of the game is not platforming, but everyone calls anything that scrolls a platformer). Jump speed being faster is the same in Rondo btw, it's particularly noticeable if you try it during the beast chase in stage 2.
The entire way i-frames work is also most likely the same but it's harder to notice considering how short they are in Rondo, which can be a real fuck you at times (I bet everyone's experienced multiple hits in a row that drain half your HP in Rondo at least once)

[Anonymous No.8876052]

>>8864759
Version with no crouching

[Anonymous No.8877103]

>>8876015
>and I've always said Castlevania is closer to a beat em up than it is to a platformer, the main focus of the game is not platforming, but everyone calls anything that scrolls a platformer
That's because they are platformers. 1 takes advantage of its platformer setup in using level design to give enemies a potential advantage, and Simon's Quest ups the level of platforming before you even reach the first mansion. 3 is where a lot of the series' platforming tropes got codified and built on. The beat em up comparison isn't lost on me, and I even agree with you to the extent, but the jumping and bottomless pits were always there.
>Jump speed being faster is the same in Rondo btw
Damn it anon, I put away the wii and it's going to be awhile before I take it back out, don't tell me shit like this that I would want to test. Can't say I ever noticed that in Rondo.

[Anonymous No.8877723]

>>8877103
not him but you don't need the wii to test
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cPPsCMPpjX9WQFtIS144qe5FXK_pOnoT/view

[Anonymous No.8878387]

>>8877723
Why would anyone play this and risk getting an inacurrate experience which for all we know was designed empirically, when you can just emulate the game just as easily.

[Anonymous No.8878420]

>>8864968
>anon maybe you don't really like classicvania.
I love classicvanias and CV1 is my favourite, which is precisely why I despise the mess that is DXX. It's not the worst game ever, but certainly the worst classicvania by far.

[Anonymous No.8878436]

>>8871883
>Egoraptor
Good Lord I hate that faggot so goddamn much.
I understand that being a contrarian retard is a good way to get attention back when people no longer care about you but still.

[Anonymous No.8878596]

>>8878387
well, it worked for me at least, didn't have an issue with the gameplay
idk how to emulate pc engine
and the only bad part was that the music takes a second to loop, it stops then has a blip then continues

[Anonymous No.8878991]

>>8877103
>1 takes advantage of its platformer setup in using level design to give enemies a potential advantage

So does Contra

> but the jumping and bottomless pits were always there.

In Double Dragon 2 as well.
I'm not saying CV is "a" beat em up, I'm just saying it isn't "a" platformer. It's just an action sidescroller that doesn't really have a sub-genre name, like Shatterhand or Ninja Gaiden (though there is a LOT less platforming in CV than in those). The platforming elements were always a side attraction at best, the first stage of CV1 has two mandatory jumps, the same one simple jump twice in a row. Tons of levels are just straight lines as well (this is even more true in Rondo) and there is nothing wrong with that, because just like in a beat em up what matters the most is the enemies placement, patterns and combinations.

One of the many reasons why I always say DXX is the CV game that is the closest to the original is because the ratio of platforming is actually somewhat identical to CV1. As you've noted they upped those elements in 2 and 3, but also in 4; and in Rondo on the contrary the platforming elements are almost inexistant.

[Anonymous No.8880249]

>>8869985
who else joins the party

[Anonymous No.8880565]

>>8878991
>I'm just saying it isn't "a" platformer
But it is a platformer.
>It's just an action sidescroller
It's an action platformer.
>the first stage of CV1 has two mandatory jumps
Uh huh, and the levels afterward? The games afterward? And are we going to ignore stuff like bone pillars and medusa heads deliberately put in places with the purpose of knocking you into otherwise easily avoidable pits?
>Tons of levels are just straight lines as well
With an argument like that, you're probably not paying attention to what I'm saying or what actually happens in the games.
>One of the many reasons why I always say DXX is the CV game that is the closest to the original is because the ratio of platforming is actually somewhat identical to CV1
That's bullshit, though. DXX goes out of its way early to utilize a lot of the series' platformer tropes, and if anything, I would think it would draw comparisons to 3. One of the most pivotal moments of the game, maybe the most pivotal, involves platforming.
>in Rondo on the contrary the platforming elements are almost inexistant
That's an argument I can probably agree with, but I would also say that you're dancing around X68000/Chronicles filled up with traps, spikes, and pits.

[Anonymous No.8880698]

>>8864694
Dracula gay seX < Chadphony of the Night

[Anonymous No.8880714]

I think Castlevania is a pretty cool Dracula. Eh whips the skeletons and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Anonymous No.8880781]

>>8880714
The levity this thread needs, but not what it deserves.

[Anonymous No.8881025]

>>8880781

[Anonymous No.8881040]

>>8881025

[Anonymous No.8882448]

>>8880565
>Uh huh, and the levels afterward? The games afterward?
I'm not ignoring anything but the point is a good first level is always a good intro of things to come and how the game is going to be

>And are we going to ignore stuff like bone pillars and medusa heads deliberately put in places with the purpose of knocking you into otherwise easily avoidable pits?

The solution to most of these situations is usually timing and position though, not running and jumping. There are plenty of action games with pits but that doesn't make them platformers. In a platformer the focus in on the jumping, take Adventure Island for instance, some levels hardly have any "platforms" at all but it's a platformer because progression is done through the various jumps and walking/running speed at your disposal, as different walk speeds and variable jump arcs is a staple for platformers, while weapons are merely a bonus. It's the exact opposite for Castlevania, the platforming elements are barely 20% of the game, versus something like Mega Man where it's almost 50% platforming and 50% shooting action.

>I would also say that you're dancing around X68000/Chronicles

The X68K is more like a "best-of Castlevania", it's supposed to be a remake of 1 (though so is 4) but in reality it takes cues from every game in the series, EVEN the arcade game. As a result it's sort of a middle ground Classicvania.

[Anonymous No.8883759]

>>8864765
they're different games so try both.
PC engine is arguably the more developed and better looking entry and there's a reason why it was the one bundled with SOTN and not x on the modern rerelease.

[Anonymous No.8884191]

>>8882448
>I'm not ignoring anything but the point is a good first level is always a good intro of things to come and how the game is going to be
So yeah, you're deliberately ignoring everything after this arbitrary limit you've set thinking it somehow helps your case. The very next level ups the number of pitfalls and even has floating, moving platforms, and indeed, it’s not until level 3 that the game starts to buckle down, so why can’t level 2 also be a part of CV 1’s intro? Why even something as stringent as a first level rule? We've literally just begun.
>timing and position
Things that typical platformers rely on as well.
>as different walk speeds and variable jump arcs is a staple for platformers
Is Donkey Kong not a platformer, then? Your statements here just emphasize the differences in platformers.
>while weapons are merely a bonus
And here is a platformer where having a weapon is a main part of the game. For that matter, are the Wario Land games not platformers because getting violent with enemies is emphasized?

Shoot, because this made me curious, I decided to see how much of CV 1's first level could be done with just jumping, and actually got all the way to the giant bat before getting whupped the first time. Second time involved a lot of jumping and crouching. Also did the second level without beating on anyone or anything up until the spike trap room, which ended up being a lot faster than otherwise. Even when not memeing, jumping over enemies is a viable and sometimes necessary action to take.

Thing is, your 20/80 measurement isn't applicable to CV 1 even because the platformer part is just as intrinsic to the game as the other parts, and in fact, the game would be a lot less interesting if you removed either that part or the combat without redesigning the game from the ground up. It's an action platformer.

[Anonymous No.8884208]

>>8870456
It has? It's insanely better than 2 and 3. DX gives it a run for its money but Castlevania 4 has to be at least in the top 3 Castlevania games.

[Anonymous No.8884224]

>>8884191
And since not saying anything myself about X68K would kind of be a dick move after ragging on you for it, I don't think calling it a best-of and a middle ground vania really constitutes much of an argument without an elaboration. Really, it just sounds like more dancing around and not wanting to admit that, again, as soon as the second level, the game starts throwing in more reasons to jump around and watch your footing to progress. What's more, and this is something I think applies to every vania and serves to emphasize my overall point more, even the parts that revolve around beating up enemies still involve the platformer element, because it helps inform the very structure of the level itself, it plays a part in what Simon can do, and even the enemies benefit indirectly from this. "Action sidescroller" does not capture what is going on here, that element is not just a side attraction "at best", and I don't think the beat em comparison holds as much weight, at least not more weight.

[Anonymous No.8884248]

>>8884208
>It's insanely better than 2 and 3
I wouldn't be surprised if people saying things like this is what helped fuel the hate for IV. I'm not saying that as a matter of disagreeing with you, putting aside that I can see someone preferring 3 at least over IV, I'm just saying that the people who hate on it probably hate how popular it is, probably each for his own reasons, and want to take it down a peg.

Which sucks, too, because on top of making CV discussion all the more acrimonious, sometimes I feel like a lot of complaints against IV could be alleviated if not fixed through doing something as simple as not using any mix of its newer mechanics to make it harder, even if it maybe isn't quite balanced around that.

[Anonymous No.8884264]

>>8884248
>people who hate on it probably hate how popular it is
Yeah, there is definitely a lot of hipsterism, but even then I think the "anti-IV" sentiment is a very vocal minority. At most, some people will parrot the whole "the whip is too OP, you don't need subweapons" ala egoraptor (who couldn't finish the game himself, btw, he gave up after many game overs at stage 8, so much for IV being easy).
Anyway I know Egoraptor doesn't hate the game and he never said it was too easy, he just thinks he's smart and wants to criticize japanese devs thinking his ideas are better or whatever. Many of the things he said would be a good implementation to the game are already there, he just never got to see them because he couldn't get past stage 8.
I think the game is balanced toward the diagonal whip, it has a lot of diagonal-attacking enemies, lots of bats flying at you in diagonal, which isn't something the other games have. Hell, if anything, Bloodlines underutilized the diagonal whip, I barely remember any time I had to use it there (the harpies on Versailles, and the bat boss on Italy).
Oh also, triple cross makes certain difficult parts of IV a lot more manageable, I always try to keep the cross.

[Anonymous No.8884282]

>>8884264
>he gave up after many game overs at stage 8
That will never not be funny.
>I think the game is balanced toward the diagonal whip, it has a lot of diagonal-attacking enemies, lots of bats flying at you in diagonal
That's something I started to realize after beating the game in two loops while foregoing the added whip mechanics. Even early on, there's quite a lot of moments where you can easily end up taking a hit because you either have to move around a lot more to land hits on enemies like the bats or because some motherfucker is hogging the top of the stairs. The 8-way whipping make look overpowered for the game, but thing is, that's arguably just the player using it right.

[Anonymous No.8885008]

>>8864694
Obviously not, but once you figure what the devs were trying to do it becomes an enjoyable thing. Still a lot of more satisfying to tackle than SotN.

[Anonymous No.8885015]

>>8867607
X level design takes a nosedive halfway into the game.

[Anonymous No.8885062]

>>8884224
>>8884191
There is no need to continue this discussion which is turning in round, as we don't agree on what constitues a platforming gameplay element.

[Anonymous No.8885082]

>>8884282
>Even early on, there's quite a lot of moments where you can easily end up taking a hit because you either have to move around a lot more to land hits on enemies like the bats or because some motherfucker is hogging the top of the stairs.

That is true in every Castlevania, even those without diagonal whipping, though, and nobody is saying those don't exist.
I would say it's a staple of the series even, bats, crows, medusa heads, or even fleamen (with AND without the birds that drop them), etc, in every Castlevania those enemies exist with patterns and positions that make it hard to whip them, in which cases knowledge of their movement, positionning and timing is crucial to dispose of them or dodge them, waiting for the right moment to strike. The enemy patterns in 4 aren't really any different than those, except that thanks to the diagonal whipping, you can dispose of them without minding your positionning and timing AS MUCH as in other titles. You don't need to wait, backtrack a little or jump to be on the correct X axis level to hit a medusa head (one example out of many), you only need to be close to it.

Same thing with enemies which are on a higher level than you or which are placed around stairs, that's also all over the series, in which cases if you don't have the proper subweapon timing to dodge their attacks is even more crucial. Same thing in 4 except that in so many cases you can use the diagonal whipping to dispose of them before they're even a threat and thus bypass the need to dodge their attacks and time your positionning before being able to even attack them.

This is what people mean when they say the game is too easy and that the diagonal whipping is OP. I have no idea who egoraptor is but stage 8 is hard for completely different reasons and you know it; and I'd go as far as saying stage 8 is hard for all the wrong reasons (such as the hit detection on the ceiling spikes being a lot bigger than what the spikes look like, as one example)

[Anonymous No.8885469]

>>8864706
>start from the castle
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.8885548]

>>8885469

[Anonymous No.8885550]

>>8885082
>if you don't have the proper subweapon timing to dodge their attacks is even more crucial
That's more or less the crux of what I'm meaning. It's not that the other games don't have enemies around stairs, it's that form what I can remember, it wasn't too difficult to get them away from there just by luring them away, if not just beating them to the punch. In IV, you often get some asshole skeleton swordsman being a real stubborn bitch about it, with almost no way of shaking them off. Mind, that happens here or there in the other games, but other than maybe 2 thanks, polearm knights, but not that often.
>I would say it's a staple of the series even, bats, crows, medusa heads, or even fleamen (with AND without the birds that drop them)
Not saying that isn't the point of them, but a lot of those mooks one way or another usually have something going on that puts them in your line of sight. A lot of times, they either spawn at your horizontal level like bats and medusa heads, or there's something to their pattern that often will put them right in your way where you can whip them away, like with fleamen and crows. IV bats, on the other hand, are often hanging on the top of screen and then come swooping in at this angle that probably would have made them such utter cunts in the NES games if they had done it there. Hence, if you're not actually using those whip mechanics, you're likely going to have to do some more silly shit to not get hit than you would in the other games that were designed around that idea.
>8 is hard for completely different reasons and you know it
Don't have to be pissy about it, anon.
>ceiling spikes
Do you mean stage 11/B or so? That part with the spikes up top? Is it that bad? I decided to look up a vid to refresh my memory, and in just about every part of it, the game foreshadows the spikes and makes it easy to stay away from them regardless of how shit their range is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjpjuJCfdi4

[Anonymous No.8885559]

>>8885469
He means to look up a password and skip about half the game to start with the Entrance Hallway, which is when the game jumps in difficulty.

[Anonymous No.8885614]

>>8864694
i like sc4 better because its easier and im not embarrassed to say so

[Anonymous No.8886740]

>>8864905
>Dracula X is the worst game in the series by far
Not even close, especially with that first game boy game or the original n64 release.

[Anonymous No.8886771]

>>8870456
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a bad game, just a bad Castlevania game. The gameplay is good with exception to some jank (falling stairs in the final level are a prime example). But the music doesn’t capture any of the energy of the series, the color choice is muddy and drab, and the bosses are too easy for the most part and underwhelming. This is also because as a 16bit Castlevania it’s compared to Rondo of Blood and Bloodlines. Between Bloodlines and IV is a good debate, but Rondo is generally considered better.
I like it, but I prefer Bloodlines and Rondo for the energy, the upbeat music, the frantic boss fights, and the variety in playstyles with the multiple characters.

[Anonymous No.8887225]

>>8886771
Bloodlines is pitifully short, offers too many mechanic changes and ignores established conventions (like gems instead of hearts and travelling around the world in non horror settings). Some real janky hit detection in places. It feels and looks like a Castlevania clone from another company, more than a part of the series. Good game by the way but literally not half the game of SCIV.

Rondo has its own problems - it's easier than SCIV especially if you use Maria (who is game breakingly unbalanced). A lot of the peripheral elements that people drool over don't add much to the game play. It's a bit bloated in that regard but not nearly to the extent of SotN. They obviously spent most of their creativity packing Rondo with secondary features because the level design is lack luster and boring. It garnered a cult following because of it was a JDM exclusive and had that Weeaboo mystique working for it.

SCIV's somber, moody and atmospheric sound track is simply the best in the entire series and there is a case to be made that it's the best soundtrack on the SNES bar none. It's a great example how to use BGM to enhance immersion. But it's a taste sort of thing. Some people like the low brow upbeat anime sound track of Rondo to that of SCIV's which appeals to more discriminating tastes.