/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8801876]

Go play Castlevania.

[Anonymous No.8801883]

Nah I’d much rather play Medievil

[Anonymous No.8801946]

>>8801883
?

[Anonymous No.8801950]

God visual kei was gay

[Anonymous No.8801981]

>>8801950
If you wouldn't fuck that beautiful man then you are the gay one

[Anonymous No.8802005]

>>8801950
projecting, anon? VK is as high test as it gets.

[Anonymous No.8802045]

i hate fags including japanese ones

[Anonymous No.8802049]

>>8802045
very very few visual kei musicians are actually gay. most of them get into it to get girls.

[Anonymous No.8802050]

>>8802049
they're still dressing up like fags

[Anonymous No.8802052]

>>8801876
what's david bowie gotta do with castlevania? other than both having great music

[Anonymous No.8802169]

>>8801876
Just started Dracula X Chronicles on Vita. How hard is it to unlock SotN and Rondo?

[Anonymous No.8802171]

>>8802169
Pretty easy, you just find them hidden in some levels.

[Anonymous No.8802225]

>>8801876
Joke's on you, I already do.

[Anonymous No.8802315]

>>8801981
This, I feel the same way anon. Mana-sama was a sexy man in his prime. I wonder how much sex Mana, Gackt, and Kami were all having.

[Anonymous No.8802327]

>>8802315
There's rumours that Mana's girlfriend was the manager of Malice Mizer, Yukie Itoh.
In interviews, Mana always talked about the kind of girls he likes, never really said he likes boys.
He dresses like a girl because, in his own words, he dresses like his "ideal woman", basically he became elevated and BECAME his own waifu.

[Anonymous No.8802332]

>>8802327
I was just being more or less ridiculous and satirical.

[Anonymous No.8802343]

>>8802005
Homeboys look like touhou characters

[Anonymous No.8802418]

>>8801876
Based Moi Dix Moi enjoyer

[Anonymous No.8802436]

>>8801876
Which one?

[Anonymous No.8802949]

>>8801950
They’re less faggy than actual fags like Morrissey or Thom Yorke.

[Anonymous No.8803149]

This one ?

[Anonymous No.8803153]

>>8802949
t. Music hater

[Anonymous No.8803846]

>>8801876
I want to fuck Mana-sama so bad dude

[Anonymous No.8803856]

>>8803149
I'll say it, as a spin off LoS1 isn't bad but as a reboot it is.

[Anonymous No.8803862]

>>8802049
Basically like glam metal in the 80s

[Anonymous No.8803867]

>>8803153
I'm sorry, but alt/indie music is lame and for teens.

[Anonymous No.8803871]

>>8803867
Morrissey was a skinhead.

[Anonymous No.8803875]

>>8803149
I liked a lot of what they did with this universe.
Some of it was a little too stupid though.

[Anonymous No.8803879]

>>8803875
The only thing I hated about the story was the Dracula twist, I also didn't like how Lament handled Dracula either.

[Anonymous No.8803901]

>>8803871
He’s a lot of things, but that doesn’t mean I have to like his irony-drenched lyrics or his pseudo-yodeling.

[Anonymous No.8803924]

>>8801876
WTF I hate Castlevania now

[Anonymous No.8804672]

>>8803871
Skinheads were teenagers so that doesn't change what he said

[Anonymous No.8805007]

>>8803924
filtered

[Anonymous No.8805015]

I like Phantasmagoria

[Anonymous No.8805021]

>>8805015
"Neo Ark" is a ripoff of Moi dix Mois' Night Breed

[Anonymous No.8805353]

>>8801883
My man.

[Anonymous No.8805460]

>>8801876
>"is that mana?"
>mana.jpg
patrician

[Anonymous No.8805473]

>>8801876
Go play Bujingai.

[Anonymous No.8805504]

>>8801876
>Get filtered by Dracula every time

[Anonymous No.8805510]

>>8801950
Visual kei? More like visibly gay

[Anonymous No.8805517]

>>8802005
Why don't you touch my heart cause it's so sentimental night

[Anonymous No.8805532]

>your friends face when you tell them that person they called hot is actually a guy
was fun to do in high school

[Anonymous No.8806743]

bean sprout

[Anonymous No.8806814]

>>8801876
10/10 would fuck

[P. Sevenleaf No.8806815]

>>8801950
Yes.png

>>8801876
Sure. Maybe I'll fire up Bloodlines later this afternoon, maybe I'll give one of the DS games a whirl.

[Anonymous No.8806821]

>>8803924
Castlevania was always shit

[Anonymous No.8806850]

put a castlevania in front of me n I’ll 360 and walk away

[Anonymous No.8806940]

>>8801876
I already finished 3 for the 40th time. I think I'm done for now.

[Anonymous No.8806959]

Was the crossdressing aspect of visual kei a fetishistic thing or was it just for shock value?

[Anonymous No.8807087]

>>8806959
it's an extension of japanese culture, back when men who played female characters in theatres were revered for their performances.

[P. Sevenleaf No.8808073]

>>8807087
>tfw when castrated males used to be actors, musicians and poets, diplomats, tacticians, advisors, priests, etc.
>now society just wants to force us into sex work

Reject modernity, embrace tradition. :/

[Anonymous No.8808090]

>>8803879
I was always fine with the Dracula twist and appreciated it more over time. Not that the events leading to it couldn't be done better, but I look at it as being less a matter of not getting what he wants so much as he listened to the wrong people in his life and unironically thought he deserved all this shit happening to him starting with not getting what he wanted.

Don't like how Lament handled just about anything in its story, though. It all comes off as contrived as fuck. Belmonts use a whip literally just because Leon was too stupid to just buy a new sword and find a sympathetic priest, don't even get how he couldn't find people to come with him, he kept his platoon intact, didn't he? Likewise, why did Death backstab Walter for Mathias and crimson stone when Walter was looking for it himself? If "the Night" is another way of referring to Chaos or whatever, and it favors Walter, shouldn't Death have outed Mathias?

[Anonymous No.8808697]

Mana has a better collection than most here. Everything from PC Engine LT to pic and ancient dedicated Japanese pong era machines.

[Anonymous No.8808715]

Am I wrong or didn't MALICE MIZER do a song to promote Harmony of Dissonance? Makes sense since Juste Belmont is probably the most visual kei out of the whole clan.

[Anonymous No.8808717]

>>8806959
They're playing a character, it's all a theatric performance, they take all that make-off at the end of the day and they're just some nerd called "Shinsuke" who goes home.

[Anonymous No.8808718]

>>8808073
They were still considered men though and not freaks of nature

[Anonymous No.8810606]

>>8808718
Don't engage with Sevenleaf, it's a disgrace to this board.

[Anonymous No.8810618]

>>8808697
He has money, a lot of money and is from Japan

[Anonymous No.8810629]

No. I finished Nocturne in the Moonlight 3 weeks ago ... like every year.

[Anonymous No.8810712]

>>8810629
Great, now listen to the Malice Mizer song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwnbOf84gL8

[Anonymous No.8810717]

>>8808715
You're only half wrong. Mana wrote a ringtone to promote Harmony of Dissonance.
Sadly, that ringtone is most likely lost media unless there's still someone in Japan keeping a keitai from 2002 with the ringtone in it.

[Anonymous No.8810728]

>>8810712
I'm not into that kind of aesthetic

[Anonymous No.8810741]

>>8810728
Tryt his
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-C_RNzFy8A

[Anonymous No.8810743]

>>8810728
Baroque (Is that the proper word?) style is definitely an acquired taste.

[Anonymous No.8810747]

I only play the best Castlevania

[Anonymous No.8810752]

>>8810743
If it only was proper Gothic/Baroque ...

[Anonymous No.8810787]

>>8810752
Gothic and Baroque are not the same though.
Gekka no Yasoukyoku (the Malice Mizer song) is more like a gypsy-jazzy tango pop song. I guess it does have a bit of baroque influence due to the harpsichord.

[Anonymous No.8810897]

>>8810747
Only on Nebulous 64™

[Anonymous No.8811364]

>>8810717
>Mana wrote a ringtone to promote Harmony of Dissonance.
I MUST have this ringtone
It would be pretty incredible if was the same or similar the gameover jingle in HoD
https://youtu.be/I0rObSyBzDA

[Anonymous No.8812062]

>>8801876
I have been trying to get back into Harmony of Despair since I finally am able to afford the DLC characters, but first, I have to remember all the techniques I used back in its heyday. With Soma, I am decently consistent on the swap with the puppet to cause him to go up against the right side wall of the elevator room, but I forgot what to do to phase through the floor into the spikes.

[Anonymous No.8812330]

>>8812062
mega based

[Anonymous No.8813082]

>>8803149
this one was fine. the sequel on the other hand was total dog shit

[Anonymous No.8813105]

>>8811364
Nobody knows how it sounds, the only thing that's known is that it's called "La nuit blanche".
It's probably one of the rarest things in both the Mana world and the Castlevania world.

[Anonymous No.8813135]

>>8802343
and that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.8813167]

ANATA WO DAKISHIME NEMURITAIIIIIII

[Anonymous No.8813836]

>>8802005
>>8803149
Based

[Anonymous No.8814572]

>ywn have Mana as your /vr/o

[Anonymous No.8814590]

>>8803149
>best selling CV game
>somehow killed the franchise
hope Dread doesn't repeat this

[Anonymous No.8814665]

I really rike this thread

[Anonymous No.8815583]

>>8814590
If anything, Castlevania's problem for a long time has been its own fans. LoS 1 would've been a great base to build of off...if they actually did all that much to build off of it. Instead we got a rather mediorce interquel that doesn't even play to its own subseries' gameplay strengths, and a sequel that's actually better than it's given credit for and arguably better in some ways than its predecessor, and see, that's the problem, it feels more like a step to the side than a step forward like it frankly damn well should've been.

What does this have to do with the fans? Because they, and it's largely if not entirely the metroidvania fans, bitch about everything. Even back when Igarashi was pretty much running the show, they always found something to complain about.
>GBA games not on a home console because muh graphics
>PS2vanias not being 2D because 3D bad because it just is
>Rondo remake too hard, SoTN retranslation not corny enough
>PoR & OoE don't star Alucard or Soma and actually had some expectations of your gaming ability
>Everything up to PoR was getting stale, but Judgment probably didn't help

Couple that with everyone else jumping ship long before this point, and you have yourself a niche series that was losing even its hardcore fans, right or wrong. That's why LoS happened in the first place, and they sure as fuck didn't learn a damn thing. You had bitching that it wasn't more of the same before it got out of the gate, and that bitching before and afterwards lead to the devs going out of their way for them, leading to a bigger focus on open ended exploration in lieu of the storybook model that, funnily enough, probably easily could've been fiddled with along with some other things like taking off invisible walls to make it work better than what they actually did. If an old GameBoy game like Wario Land 2 can make alternate routes & stories work, LoS could've. You already had the "items for moves and abilities" thing going on anyway.

[Anonymous No.8815603]

This thread reminded me of high school when I had a friend who really liked visual kei, and then I was frustrated that I couldn't remember this one video I used to really like, but I suddenly remember it now and I'm excited it just popped into my head so I'm going to post it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDT2IZkE8QY

[P. Sevenleaf No.8815814]

>>8808718
Cool, that's literally what I just said. You've added nothing to the conversation :))

[Anonymous No.8815823]

>>8801876
Okay, which one, I have Aria / Dawn of Sorrow, Order of Esslesia, and Portrait of Ruin.
I've only played SotN, but I really like that game.

[Anonymous No.8815836]

>>8815583
I feel like blaming fans is always a faulty argument to make concerning the fate of a game series, like of Castlevania. It's true that there are certain expectations to be met but in the end it's the developers who tasked with making a good video game first above all else, regardless of what kind of game it is. Yes, CV are especially guilty of shitting on any 3dvania game without much thought, but can you really blame them? Most fans acknowledge Castlevania could work in 3d, it's just that no developer has ever really bothered to work with the strengths of any established vania game and adapted to 3d well. Copy pasted corridors filled with enemies is admittedly serviceable because the combat is actually decent, but people have come to expect a little more creativity when it comes to titles like this. As for LoS, it just takes after the big blockbuster cinematic action games of the time. Shitty Shadow of Colossus boss fights filled with QTEs and a system that takes way too much after God of War doesn't just make for a mediocre CV game, but just a mediocre game in general.

[Anonymous No.8816872]

>>8806959
It's weird, it's neither. It's like fashion and how the members of a vk band looked was part of some kind of whole artistic vision. It might sound like moronic babble, but it ends up making some sort of actual sense as you get to know the scene. Take a look at the band called Versailles. French aristocracy wouldn't be the same without the Damoiselles, right? Well that's how you end up with crossdressing musicians, not because they're sexual deviants, not for the sake of subversion, but because it's stylish as fuck, and coherent with some artistic approach. Japan is autistic desu

[Anonymous No.8816879]

>>8803879
>hated about the story was the Dracula twist, I also didn't like how Lament handled Dracula either.
Shit opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.8816883]

>>8815583
This right here. I meet those cunt myself despite being Castlevania fan (more Megaman, SMT and FE fan.)

[Anonymous No.8816887]

>>8806821
Cope
>>8805473
>>8803149
I enjoyed two of Bujingai and CV: LoS2 gameplay. But story need more improvement.

[Anonymous No.8817694]

>>8815836
>true that there are certain expectations to be met
>but can you really blame them? Most fans acknowledge Castlevania could work in 3d, it's just that no developer has ever really bothered to work with the strengths
>Shitty Shadow of Colossus boss fights filled with QTEs and a system that takes way too much after God of War

Yeah no, you're more or less exactly the sort of person I'm talking about, and as expected, you're passive aggressive as fuck. I mean for fuck's sake,
>Copy pasted corridors filled with enemies is admittedly serviceable because the combat is actually decent
But the N64 games that actually gave a damn about balancing enemy and level design together don't adhere to the series' strength? LoS 1 is pretty much an evolution of LoI's gameplay paired with better level structure that isn't just hallways.

This is why I typically don't take the comments of CV fans seriously, because you people have the dumbest opinions for the dumbest reasons that basically amount to a given CV game not being exactly what you want it to be and being mad about it.

[Anonymous No.8817815]

>>8815823
Definitely play Aria and Dawn first out of those.

[Anonymous No.8817853]

>>8817815
Seconding, if you like SoTN, I'd say you're more likely to like the Sorrow games than PoR & OoE, though I guess that sort of depends on what specifically you like about SoTN. I prefer the latter and appreciate SoTN for the special moves and the compare/contrast between Richter and Dracula and I guess Richter mode.

[Anonymous No.8819745]

>>8802169
you unlock sotn by playing on saturn, since it's the superior version with extra content
>https://youtu.be/JtA6I7hy-XI?t=30

[Anonymous No.8819760]

>>8802005
I don't understand the meaning of the Japanese along the bottom. Something like "anyone can see there are no flowers here"?

[Anonymous No.8819769]

>>8805460
Even if you think it's not Mana, it's still Mana

[Anonymous No.8819785]

>>8815583
You ever wonder why some series have this baked in expectation of rigid adherence to certain rules, while other game series can change a lot and not bother their fans? Or why are some series basically shit on by fans constantly for doing this or that thing and others are accepted? The differences that emerge in fandoms and their expectations are really fascinating.

[Anonymous No.8819789]

>>8802327
>He dresses like a girl because, in his own words, he dresses like his "ideal woman"
they're just gay or bi my dude. back then you couldn't just come out and say it, so they said shit like that to get the people asking to leave them alone

[Anonymous No.8819813]

>>8815603
that singer looks EXTREMELY short
like 4'11 or something
cool video though

[Anonymous No.8819818]

>>8819789
that artist is so goddamn good

[Anonymous No.8820690]

>>8817694
>But the N64 games that actually gave a damn about balancing enemy and level design together don't adhere to the series' strength?
I didn't even mention N64 so I'm not even sure why you're getting uppity, N64vanias are decent in their own right and were mainly criticized because of the camera.
>LoS 1 is pretty much an evolution of LoI's gameplay paired with better level structure that isn't just hallways.
You're one to talk about others having dumb opinions

[Anonymous No.8820706]

>>8819785
Fans of the series are hardly ever the demographic audience any game is being produced for. Most of the time it's to reach the largest demographic, and when it's not it's because the developers are doing what they wanted. This whole thing that fans are somehow actually influencing what the game developers are doing is pretty much bullshit.

[Anonymous No.8820956]

>>8819789
Maybe bi, but Mana definitely likes girls.

[Anonymous No.8821007]

>>8819818
It looks smeared in Vaseline

[Anonymous No.8821824]

>>8802052
The VK guys are much more extravagant with their outfits than any of Bowie’s personas.

[Anonymous No.8821828]

>>8802052
>>8821824
Bowie was an influence for some early acts like Zi:Kill. From Malice Mizer, the other guitarist, Kozi, was more influenced by stuff like Bowie too, but Mana was more of a metalhead who was into Slayer and Motley Crue.

[Anonymous No.8822140]

>>8820690
>it's just that no developer has ever really bothered to work with the strengths of any established vania game and adapted to 3d well
Maybe it wasn't your intent, but it does read like you're talking shit, anon.
>You're one to talk about others having dumb opinions
Do you at least have an actual rebuttal? Or what, were you hoping I could elaborate more? I can honestly do that if you really want.
>>8820706
Mirror of Fate and 2 both went out of their way to accommodate metroidvania fans like maps, intersecting areas, level up mechanics, even quotes from SoTN, because metroidvania fans bitched about LoS 1 not being close enough to their definition of Castlevania. I'm not saying that developers aren't going to do their thing on any level, but don't bullshit me about fans not having influence on some level, that's pretty much what happened here, and given what we got, it probably resulted in MercurySteam not playing to their strengths.
>>8820706
I don't know, I think it kind of depends on the series in question, really. You look at Sonic, and there's maybe three different factions, like Classic vs Adventure, for example, and the thing is, those people, whether you agree with them or not, actually will argue over gameplay matters, like earning your speed or how if such and such thing were done better and Sonic Team would stop pussyfooting, it'd be great. Or Pokemon's Game Freak developers presumably having great resources, but terrible use of them, you should probably ask them about it.

With Castlevania, it's basically just fans of a small handful of games being assholes about it. Even when the series turned niche, they would talk down everyone with a difference of opinion, even when they didn't like the metroidvanias being put out that didn't conform to exactly what they wanted.

[Anonymous No.8822595]

>>8808718
lol you're the kind of nerd who will repeat what somebody said back to them but act like you're correcting them

[Anonymous No.8823080]

We need a consensus: classicvania or searchvanias?

[Anonymous No.8825087]

>>8814665
I love this chuuni bastard like you wouldn’t believe.

[Anonymous No.8827120]

>>8819745
Need upgrade N64 port.

[Anonymous No.8828401]

>>8827120
what's with this autist who keeps doing these on-purpose ESL posts about games getting ports to Nintendo systems?
The repetition and forced meme anti-nintendo stentch suggests it's australia-kun, but if that's true, boy, auster has fallen hard with his ideas, and the bar wasn't set high to begin with, not even close.

[Anonymous No.8828501]

[Anonymous No.8828519]

>>8808090
My head cannon before Lament came out was that the VK was actually the whip used to flog Christ on the day of his crucifixion. Anointed by the blood of God, the VK remained sealed near the holy land. During the crusades it was recovered along with the Lecarde spear (which was used by the to impale Christ on the cross) by members of the Belmont Clan and was claimed as a holy relic under the Church. Whenever darkness arose the whip was brought back to fight the forces of evil. Later in its life the VK was upgraded by member's of the church into its chain form.

I can get why Lament went with sad girlfriend power's whip, but just wonder why the whip hasn't run out of energy yet. I mean yeah, Sara's death was pretty devastating, but her sacrifice doesn't really match the almost 1000 years' worth of holy power the VK deals out. (1095-2035)

[Anonymous No.8829115]

>>8828519
Honestly, something like is I would rather have instead of what we got, but even with the Christfaggotry aside, it never really made sense to me why Vampire Killer as Lament depicts it would ultimately be such a pain in the ass for the likes of Death and Dracula. Straight up the spell used to forge the whip with Sara's soul literally came from Mathias' book, and the guy isn't exactly a slouch in alchemy considering he
>has the crimson stone with Death's respect, enough to act on backstabbing Walter even before he loses the ebony stone
>also has Rinaldo's respect, who's kind of a dick
>arguably beats out Walter in general when it comes to alchemy presuming the Anti-Soul lab is for alchemy and given Walter's own desire for the crimson stone
>presumably keeps at alchemy as Dracula

To say nothing that Death is, well, Death, has been shown to throw around some magic sigils himself time to time, and canonically "knows dark secrets hidden from all else". The two of them put together seriously couldn't find a way to undo Vampire Killer? It (possibly) took some random ass dark priest killed deader than dead to do it?

[Anonymous No.8829125]

>>8829115
>Honestly, something like is I would rather have
Oh for goodness sake, I mean, something like this is what I would rather have.

[Anonymous No.8829139]

>>8828519
I did this headache, but I think it’s making a huge logic leap in having a holy relic or the Church preserved from a millennium suddenly become the go-to Vampire weapon and being used in the field.

Tying VK’s creation directly to defeating a vampire lord just makes more sense.

[Anonymous No.8829146]

>>8829139
*headcannon

[Anonymous No.8829202]

>>8829139
I can see the logic in anon making it a relic found during the crusades, but yeah, I don't really need that part myself. It's a whip imbued with holy power of God, that's all the reason I need for its preservation and changing into a morning star.

[Anonymous No.8830417]

Mana rocks

[Anonymous No.8830460]

>>8812062

[Anonymous No.8830509]

>>8801876
I just beat the first Castlevania yesterday and made decent progress on Castlevania III. I have to say that they are pretty overrated so far. Most of the difficulty just comes from janky mechanics.

[Anonymous No.8830605]

I'm starting to really like the Castlevania series. So far I've played 1, 3, rondo and IV and they're all excellent.

[Anonymous No.8830710]

You know, the fujos over at /cgl/ love Mana.

[Anonymous No.8830726]

>>8830605
>"Bro, check out this band I just found...Sublime"
Kinda jealous whenever I hear someone is just picking up some of my favorite stuff. Hope you have fun with the rest.

[Anonymous No.8830748]

>>8830710
no shit, Mana is literally God to lolitas.

[Anonymous No.8832270]

Gonna be playing some Rondo or SCV4 tonight, maybe both.

[Anonymous No.8832369]

>>8815583
>GBA games not on a home console because muh graphics
For me it wasn't graphics, the gameplay and content of the NDS and GBA is simply just inferior to SOTN.
>PS2vanias not being 2D because 3D bad because it just is
Not being 2D or being 3D wasn't a problem, they're just from mediocre(Lament) to outright trash in design(Curse). Castlevania thrives in good map design and monster placement/encounters.
>Rondo remake too hard, SoTN retranslation not corny enough
The Rondo remake was OK, if it filtered newbs it's a problem of the Metroidvania players that never experienced the Classicvania.
>PoR & OoE don't star Alucard or Soma and actually had some expectations of your gaming ability
I've never held these kind of expectations, first time I heard about this.
>Everything up to PoR was getting stale, but Judgment probably didn't help
PoR was probably the better of the post-SOTN metroidvanias, I think people lost interest in the franchise in general after Dawn. And nobody asked for Judgement.

For Castlevania to succeed as a franchise it only needed 2 things. Higher production for Metroidvanias with as much variety of content as SOTN and competent design for the 3D offshoots.

After the first Puzzle stage in LoS I didn't gave a fuck anymore.
>>8830605
Nice, don't skip Simon's Quest, it's fun and feels good to beat, don't feel bad of using a guide, it was designed to play it with one. And have fun with the rest of the games.
>>8812062
Very based anon. I should collect the games too.

[Anonymous No.8832380]

>>8801876
>>8802005
Peak asian masculinity.

[Anonymous No.8832683]

>>8814590
It had a sequel, you mong. KCEJ/Kojima Studios killed all the konami franchises.

[Anonymous No.8832728]

>>8832369
>the gameplay and content of the NDS and GBA is simply just inferior to SOTN
How so? That's something that can easily be said in reverse.
>they're just from mediocre(Lament) to outright trash in design(Curse).
Are you saying that everything else in between those? Because I don't see how the LoS or N64 games are down to the PS2 games' level. Hell, that last subset is the only one that really even has significant flaws, that being repetitive as hell level design that makes everything else feel repetitive as well.
>Castlevania thrives in good map design and monster placement/encounters
And if we were talking exclusively about the classicvanias, we'd have no issues here. Those games did it so well that a working trifecta of player character/enemy/level design is their hallmark. Can you earnestly say that about the metroidvanias that came afterwards, because I would say you could say that about maybe three of them, and that sure as hell doesn't include SoTN or the Sorrow games.

As for the 3D games, that's probably going to depend on how you look at them, really, and I suppose I can see what you mean about enemy placement. The N64 games take the most after the older games, and thus tend to have enemies in the way of your running and jumping a lot, but also tend to place enemies in ways that make more sense in a thematic way, like ghosts and vampires in the torture chamber. The PS2 games don't do much in the way pf platforming in the first place, but, especially in hard mode, do their best to make up for it in what groups of enemies you fight. LoS does both, throwing thematically appropriate enemies at you here and pitting you against particular groupings there.

You'd be right to say that most of the 3D games don't really go for that trifecta in the same way as traidtional vania, but that doesn't disqualify them from doing it well or well enough, or for that matter, necessarily worse than what we typically got from the 2D games around that time.

[Anonymous No.8832731]

>>8832369
>>8832728
>I've never held these kind of expectations, first time I heard about this
PoR used to be one the black sheeps of the series with Simon's Quest and HoD, and people on this very board still shittalk OoE for reasons that basically boil down to it not being like SoTN enough, usually for not letting them steamroll everything and go at their leisure.
>Higher production for Metroidvanias with as much variety of content as SOTN and competent design for the 3D offshoots
See, this is the crux of it. You sound like you think that all Castlevania needs, if all it ever needed, was another SoTN, like basically just SoTN, except that
1a. What are you counting as “content” here? Not to say that SoTN doesn’t have a lot of content, but I question that idea that it has that much more than the latter games, barring HoDiss, what with it being an Iga game focused on a Belmont, and thus was more focused and limited in scope.
1b. Why the assumption about more content = good? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying, and I would have to say that that’s silly, content doesn’t work if it doesn’t work well in context of the game’s design, that just leads to bloat.
2. Getting SoTN over and over is a big part of why the series ended up in the state that it did in the first place. In fact, even if we did get another 2D higher production metroidvania like SoTN revitalizing the series, it would probably end in a retread of what happened last time, and it probably wouldn’t go as well, either.
Really, this is the sort of thing I was getting at. It’s always has to be like SoTN, if only we had another Castlevania game exactly like SoTN, when’s SoTN 2. You can deny it, but that’s what it reads like, that all those actual sequels to SoTN’s gameplay and story don’t count because, what, because they were handheld games on the GBA and DS? Castlevania 1 was stuck on the NES yet that still spawned an entire franchise.

[Anonymous No.8832754]

>>8832683
This is something I've wondered about time to time. I've only really played Castlevania, so I don't know much about anything regarding Konami's other franchises, but what exactly happened to their other franchises? I do get the impression at times that their funds would get funneled into Kojima's projects, but that's pretty likely talking out of ignorance and missing a lot of context I know nothing about.

On a related note, how's the Getsu Fuuma Den game doing? Is it even out yet?

[Anonymous No.8832785]

>>8832728
>Are you saying that everything else in between those? Because I don't see how the LoS or N64 games are down to the PS2 games' level. Hell, that last subset is the only one that really even has significant flaws, that being repetitive as hell level design that makes everything else feel repetitive as well.
LoS wasn't fun or interesting enough for me to give it a fair shot, I didn't like the approach for combat and the controls never felt comfortable for me. If the game does have better level design after the 3rd Level, well I guess I missed a potentially good game that I dismissed.
As for the N64, from what I saw. I admire their honest attempts to bring the franchise to 3D, they understood at least in terms of the measure of complexity that the level design should have for a Castlevania game, specially Legacy of Darkness. But the Engine and Controls show that they were very experimental and struggle with camera views and input response for jumps and climbs. For which made the game very hard to enjoy.

[Anonymous No.8832814]

>>8832731
>1a. What are you counting as “content” here?
Exploration, Familiars, Transformations, Equipments, Relics, Fighting-game like moves for spells and powers, special effects of weapons, secret moves of swords. Monster variety, the list goes on.
>1b. Why the assumption about more content = good? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying, and I would have to say that that’s silly, content doesn’t work if it doesn’t work well in context of the game’s design, that just leads to bloat.
SOTN went all out and didn't make compromises. Before you unlock all the knowledge of the game, you could run the game slowly and be challenged as a player to solve problems like the first stairway of the Royal Chapel. And what makes SOTN so much more fun than the rest is the versatility on mobility to which all the rest of the games lack or tone it down a lot. Plus the environmental aspect of the transformations added more make the player feel curious about going beyond the Iron Bars that lock him out of the Bat Spirit. Things like that.
>2. Getting SoTN over and over is a big part of why the series ended up in the state that it did in the first place. In fact, even if we did get another 2D higher production metroidvania like SoTN revitalizing the series, it would probably end in a retread of what happened last time, and it probably wouldn’t go as well, either.
The thing is that, we didn't really get SOTN over and over. We've got budget bootleg tier variations. And it goes against logic to make such a choice considering the success of SOTN.

[Anonymous No.8832837]

>>8832731
>Really, this is the sort of thing I was getting at. It’s always has to be like SoTN, if only we had another Castlevania game exactly like SoTN, when’s SoTN 2. You can deny it, but that’s what it reads like, that all those actual sequels to SoTN’s gameplay and story don’t count because, what, because they were handheld games on the GBA and DS? Castlevania 1 was stuck on the NES yet that still spawned an entire franchise.
I will not dispute the relevancy of the platform, since it's not relevant to my points. Bringing CV1 to this argument made me chuckle a bit lol.
But the fact of the matter is that the handheld games were inferior to SoTN. They never attempted to refine, they did offer a few new mechanics and experimented a bit with a few concepts, but removed most of the best stuff SoTN offered as a tradeoff. So you can't really wonder why the franchise gradually lost steam if each subsequent title in this style never gave itself a chance to go all out like SoTN.

[Anonymous No.8832871]

>>8832754
>but what exactly happened to their other franchises?
Cancelled one after the other, to relocate budget for Kojima's latest auteur project. I guess PES survived for a time.

[Anonymous No.8833832]

>>8801950
Shut the fuck up. Visual kei is fucking incredible.

https://youtu.be/lT4SpyiVD4A?t=19

[Anonymous No.8834315]

>>8832754
> Getsu Fuuma Den
Ok but not popular enough.

[Anonymous No.8835050]

redpill me on Mana, where do I start with his work? Malice Mizer or Moi Dix Mois?

[Anonymous No.8835093]

>>8835050
Malice Mizer is pretty good all 4 albums and a few singles here and there. Very varied music in their catalogue. If you can't dig the first record go for the next one and so forth. There's great chance that some record will click with you.
For Moi Dix Mois don't really know, I listened the first 3 records back in the day, and Mana seemed adamant of getting a good drummer after the passing of Malice's drummer and sampled drums got old pretty fast for me. Maybe someone else can weigh in better info on MDM.

[Anonymous No.8837160]

>>8835093
First 2 albums of MDM has Tohru on drums.

[Anonymous No.8837483]

>>8835050
>>8835050
Malice Mizer owns.
Moi meme moitie dix mois derpé is more niche and I don't like it. I like Klaha's side-project and also any of the other members' side projects except for Gackt because it's pop trash even through he's a genius and has the skill to make way better music.

Side recommendations:
-Vidoll (early) https://youtube.076.ne.jp/watch?v=2eaOzanRqYY
-Blam Honey (not the cover album) https://piped.silkky.cloud/watch?v=S8pfeOMA3uw
-Velvet Eden https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=u44G_CZyvRU

[Anonymous No.8837497]

Best Castlevania?

[Anonymous No.8837509]

>>8837497
this cock in your butt

[Anonymous No.8837909]

>>8837497
Rondo of Blood.

[Anonymous No.8838447]

>>8837483
when you say Klaha's side-project, you mean his old band Pride of Mind, or his solo project post-MM?

[Anonymous No.8839765]

>>8832837
I was gonna post a lot of long paragraphs about how I disagree with just about everything you said, but that probably wouldn't be fun for anybody in this thread, so I'm just going to try and keep it short.
>Bringing CV1 to this argument made me chuckle a bit lol
The joke is that CV1 is a rather simplistic game with less content compared to its brethren at the time. Less enemies, less things to play around with, including other player characters with their own thing going on. Even Adventure 1 has more platforming elements involved. This doesn't seem to matter, though, because CV1 is one of the most beloved games in the franchise because of how well it handles what it does have, with there being people who unironically consider it perfect.
>But the fact of the matter is that the handheld games were inferior to SoTN. They never attempted to refine
>We've got budget bootleg tier variations
>the success of SOTN
>They never attempted to refine, they did offer a few new mechanics and experimented a bit with a few concepts, but removed most of the best stuff SoTN offered as a tradeoff
You flat out haven't even played the handhelds if you think they didn't do anything to refine what SoTN did. Perhaps not one of them has everything you listed at once like SoTN, but all of them have the majority of it and handle those things better.
CoTM
>actual difficulty curve
>allowed access to stronger stuff if you were good enough learning and applying the lesser stuff
HoD
>gave us actual dash cancelling and was rather balls out about it
>level and enemy design was practically an obstacle course if you wanted it to be when you get slide and doublejump/dive kick relatively early on
>even allowed for spell switching & toggling on the fly, certain spells allowed for inputs to affect things
>Maxim also allowed for inputs and was basically the resident Richter
>doesn't require slow transformations and clunky button inputs for mobility
>slew of environmental puzzles

[Anonymous No.8839776]

>>8839765
AoS
>doesn’t need abusing mechanics to move fast in the first place
>even if it’s simplistic, soul system allows for dishing out a lot without the need for inputs
>a power and effect for every soul, including many similar to SoTN
>generally manages to tie the mechanics of the earlier games in a cohesive package that later games build off of
>possibly the best bat form in the franchise, fast, to the point hellfire on the fly with Dracula soul setup
DoS
>first to start balancing things since CoTM
>brings back puzzles and has a lot of things to interact with in various ways
>brings back weapon specials
PoR
>actually has some bite to its bark that DoS didn’t quite reach
>dual character mechanic may very well allow for the most freedom of movement out of the games
>cancel backdash
>cancel slides for that extra defense and offense opportunity
>cancel attacks that land on something, anything
-unfortunately seems to embrace cancel culture
>level of content may actually be on the level of SoTN, actually has a higher enemy count
>said enemies actually stand a chance of kicking your ass
>shitton of weapons, subs, and spells with varying effects depending on use
>directional inputs allowing for more moves including weapon specials
>multiple character modes and varied level cap hard mode that changes some enemy behaviors
>level and enemy coordination shines in said hard mode

[Anonymous No.8839780]

>>8839776
OoE
>like AoS, ties up a lot of the mechanics of earlier games into one game
>normal mode difficulty rivaling CoTM even with more freedom of movement and abilities/powers more readily available
>better balanced hard mode than PoR where DEF actually matters, equipment fitting playstyle
>fat trimmed, glyphs & equipment more to the point while still having a lot of different effects
>varied locations tied together by map screen, even the recolors having altered structures and enemies making for different experiences
>level and enemy design even more on point with more aggressive enemies forcing you to take action and learn to use environment fast
>still requires returning to older areas with newer abilities to find everything
>still has a ton of secrets hidden in different ways
>loads you with a ton of shit that still lets you break the game if you want, if you can get your hands on it
>bosses fuck about less than ever before
>can still kill them in reasonable time even on the hardest settings
>human flight glyph allowing for extra speed and versatility

That’s what the handheld games do, and they did a pretty good job of maintaining the franchise’s standards for aesthetics, too.

I’ll be frank with you, you’re not exactly dissuading me from my earlier position regarding how unreasonable fans like you can be, and I consider you SoTN to be the worst in particular. It’s one thing if you’re unaware of all the above, but if you are in fact familiar with the handheld games, then I would have to say that what you’re advocating for with your supposed proper sequel to SoTN would be a severe regression. Do you want to just cut it here, or would you have me cut into SoTN, too?

[Anonymous No.8839790]

>>8839776
OoE
>like AoS, ties up a lot of the mechanics of earlier games into one game
>normal mode difficulty rivaling CoTM even with more freedom of movement and abilities/powers more readily available
>better balanced hard mode than PoR where DEF actually matters, equipment fitting playstyle
>fat trimmed, glyphs & equipment more to the point while still having a lot of different effects
>varied locations tied together by map screen, even the recolors having altered structures and enemies making for different experiences
>level and enemy design even more on point with more aggressive enemies forcing you to take action and learn to use environment fast
>still requires returning to older areas with newer abilities to find everything
>still has a ton of secrets hidden in different ways
>loads you with a ton of shit that still lets you break the game if you want, if you can get your hands on it
>bosses fuck about less than ever before
>can still kill them in reasonable time even on the hardest settings
>even give bragging rights medals for not being hit
>human flight glyph allowing for extra speed and versatility

That’s what the handheld games do, and they did a pretty good job of maintaining the franchise’s standards for aesthetics, too.

I’ll be frank with you, you’re not exactly dissuading me from my earlier position regarding how unreasonable fans like you can be, and I consider you SoTN fans to be the worst in particular. It’s one thing if you’re unaware of all the above, but if you are in fact familiar with the handheld games, then I would have to say that what you’re advocating for with your supposed proper sequel to SoTN would be a severe regression. Do you want to just cut it here, or would you hear me shit on SoTN, too?

[Anonymous No.8840365]

>>8838447
Yes, Pride of Mind. I'm going off of memories that are about 12 years old at this point. Good catch.

[Anonymous No.8840730]

>>8837497
Legacy of Darkness

[Anonymous No.8841458]

>>8840365
based, pride of mind is great

[Anonymous No.8841530]

>>8837497
Dracula XX

[Anonymous No.8841648]

>>8837497
Just about any game starring Simon.
>>8840730
Nice.

[Anonymous No.8843295]

>>8841648
>Just about any game starring Simon.
This. Simon best belmont.
To be fair Haunted Castle isn't a good game but it has a great OST.