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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 10 KB, 220x220, aussie mgs3 the fear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8748321 No.8748321 [Reply] [Original]

Is MGS3 the most complete game ever made? I can't find anything that feels unfinished in it. Every speck of it filled with detail and attention and care.
How in the world did they do it 20 years ago?

>> No.8748374

>>8748321
inb4: SOVL

It was just good old fashioned Japanese polish and craftsmanship. I think RE4 is another game where it feels like the devs thought of practically everything.

>> No.8748385

>>8748374
RE4 might be a great game on it's own, but I'll never recover from the trauma of being a lifelong fan of the franchise only to watch it turn into a third person shooter

>> No.8748394

>>8748385
It never bothered me too much. I always thought of RE as a fairly action-oriented horror series. The series was in full on summer blockbuster mode as early as RE2.

>> No.8748585

If only you didn't to pause all the time for the camouflage. MGS4, as bad as it is, had the best possible answer to that problem, a shame it has to be a futuristic setting in order to make that work in universe.

>> No.8748618

I dunno if I'd go that far, but it is one of my favorite games.
I last played it sometime in 2017 and the frequent pausing didn't bother me as much as I thought it would, but if it got a remake today they could probably retool the camo menu to work via a ring menu with some sort of cartoony puff of smoke obfuscating the costume change.
Could be cool to see the improvised surgery and first aid in real time as well but I guess that would kinda break the game since it's designed around the survival viewer.

>> No.8748639

>>8748374
Pretty much this.
They crafted many small snippets, each with its fun stuff to do and find. Varying tasks, set enemies etc. This goes for MGS3 and RE4.

>> No.8748783

If MGS3 was so complete, why did Kojima need to make Subsistence?

>> No.8748803

>>8748783
If you played the original, you would know why

>> No.8748808

>>8748783
Because getting seen by someone off camera on the other side of the map wasn't very fun.

>> No.8748960
File: 66 KB, 1024x576, num8zrt6ir001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8748960

>>8748385
>lifelong fan of the franchise until RE4 came out
>lifelong
>RE1 - 1996
>RE4 - 2005
That's a lot of disappointment for a nine-year old kid to shoulder

>> No.8748997

>>8748321
Perfect Dark is the most complete game ever made.

>> No.8749005

>>8748783
No og xbox port so it needs to sell a second time.

>> No.8749091

>>8748321
Insanely replayable, lot of heart was put into it. Mgs2 and 3 spoiled me on how game endings should play out, a lot of them just feel rushed or eager to kick you out at the end, but mgs makes you sit back and enjoy what you've accomplished.
Gameplay is excellent, provides lots of experimentation like mgs2, music excellent as always but it's a japdev, this is nothing new. Excellent art direction and character designs, a somewhat realistic style but not to the point where it ages like milk in a year, still looks great, though mgs2's environments still look better, imo.
also who knew you could make people in fatigues and military gear interesting looking in so many different ways, Yoji knows his stuff.
I liked that this game leans more on the paranormal stuff while also doing half military realism. It's a really fun mix that not many games try to ape off, or do it successfully. It also fits with it's James Bond inspiration, Bond always had it's wacky stuff among the grounded stuff.
I think around that time mgs3 and RE4, those years when games came out is when devs hit their peak in inspiration and talent. Kojipro was one of those teams.

>> No.8749101

>>8748808
You must be really bad at this game to have this happened to you.

>> No.8749127

Anyone else prefer the overhead camera? For some reason it feels more immersive to me.

>> No.8749151

>>8749127
I still haven’t played the original version. I decided that on my next playthrough I’m gonna try that version instead of Subsistence

>> No.8749156

>>8749127
It's much better. The composition of the image is important and the new camera ruins that. Also, the framerate is affected negatively due to your view being more forward facing, exposing the entirety of a map. It also makes the first person view useless in most cases.

>> No.8749161

>>8749127
Hear, hear

>> No.8749208

I don't get the MGS3 love.
The Cobras suck, The End is the only fun fight.
Graphics are fine, but the game chokes to a crawl multiple times.
Mei Ling was way better Para-Medic. That movie talk fucking sucked.
The Boss is fine in MGS3, but I hate how she became the most important person to ever exist.
Volgin sucks compared to Liquid and Solidus.
Young Ocelot sucks.
There are neat ideas like camo, cure, eating and backpack, but it just means you have to pause the game to change shit.
It's a fine game, but after MGS2 I wanted to know more about where the story goes, not what happened to Big Boss. Not nearly as good as 1 and 2.

>> No.8749216

>>8749208
I agree with you for the most part. The support team was especially disappointing. I didn't care about any of them, The Boss and Zero included. I much prefer the late 90s-early 00s thriller aesthetic of MGS1/2.

>> No.8749236

>>8749101
I've gotten Foxhound rank twice, so I don't think that's the case.

>> No.8749256

>how did human beings release complete media projects 20 years ago
Anon you sound so fucking dumb

>> No.8749282

whats the big deal with the zombie camo anyways? its promoted everywhere, on figures and stuff, looks cool but its absolutely trash in the game, gives you a negative camo index if i recall

>> No.8749304

>>8749282
Hmm it might be because it looks cool but I’m not sure. What the hell were they thinking! The camo index on that merch is abysmal

>> No.8749653

>>8749127
No, it doesn’t work for 3 because you don’t have the radar, and it’s way to close in 2 and 3

>> No.8749657

>>8749151
Subsistence has the original camera as a toggle. The original release is completely obsolete.

>> No.8749665

>>8749657
Oh, okay. I forgot.

>> No.8749672

>>8749657
I just wish they kept the "Snake Eater" title screen. The subsistence title screen is kind of soulless.

>> No.8749681

>>8749672
Doesn’t that only happen after you beat the game?

>> No.8749701

>>8749127
Absolutely... but it dosn't work for the design of the areas and the lack of radar in MGS3.

>> No.8749719

>>8748321
Because it's a short linear game that was in production for 4 years, 6 if you count the constant development that went on it since it's Japanese release through the European(yes they changed and added thing to the game) all the way to the launch of Subsistance.

>> No.8750696

>>8748321
3's great, in fact I'd argue you could say the same for 1, 2 and 3. They all do exactly what they set out to do.

>> No.8750714

>>8748321
>I can't find anything that feels unfinished in it
i didn't care when boss died. That salute wasn't a tearjerker at all

>> No.8750716

>>8749216
i forgot the support team existed in mgs3

>> No.8750741

>>8748585
>a shame it has to be a futuristic setting in order to make that work in universe.
That's never been an issue with other out of place tech in the series to be fair. Look at all the hologram, prosthetics and even the Metal Gear in V. Look at the HELO jump and floating platforms in 3 (yeah they handwave the HELO jump as "the world's first" and those platforms were actually in development but it still stands out)

>> No.8750746

>>8750714
Th-that doesn't make it unfinished, anon.

>> No.8750839

Lazy rehash

>> No.8750848

>>8749653
wait you actually used the radar in 2? lol

>> No.8751012

>>8750746
Boss/her importance to Snake wasn't fleshed out when the ending demanded such a thing

>> No.8751017

>>8751012
?? They spend the vast majority of the game with Snake never shutting up about how important the boss is to him. It takes up the majority of the plot to the point where the actual mission seems to be in the background at times.

>> No.8751039

>>8750741
Thanks for reminding me of that shitty Metal Gear in MGSV.
Fuck I hate that game.

>> No.8751048

>>8751017
he says she is important and important and shit but it's all just normative statements about what is instead of actual character interaction or decision making. This is probably because eastern writing lacks subtlety

>> No.8751265

>>8749208
>The Cobras suck, The End is the only fun fight.
The Cobras do suck both as characters and boss fights, but I thought The Fury was almost as good as The End. He's one of the only stealth boss fights in the series and they pull it off pretty well
>Mei Ling was way better Para-Medic. That movie talk fucking sucked.
100% correct
>The Boss is fine in MGS3, but I hate how she became the most important person to ever exist.
I genuinely just disregard PW and MGSV and consider them to not be canon. MGS3 doesn't need them and the "connect the dots yourself" ending is way more than enough to explain Naked Snake becoming Big Boss
>Volgin sucks compared to Liquid and Solidus.
Yes, but unlike Liquid and Solidus, Volgin isn't really the main antagonist, he just thinks he is which kinda makes it work
>Young Ocelot sucks.
Compared to MGS1 Ocelot, yeah, but overall I gotta disagree with this.
>There are neat ideas like camo, cure, eating and backpack, but it just means you have to pause the game to change shit.
I also fully agree with this one

>> No.8751269

>>8749672
Aren't they literally the exact same title screen except with a different subtitle?

>> No.8751293

>>8751265
The Fury was great (mainly because it was taken directly from The Running Man) but it's pretty much the EXACT same fight as Vulcan Raven in MGS1. The Sorrow was far more interesting in that it wasn't even a fight but karma coming to kick you in the arse. Even The Fear was interesting with the whole mechanic of feeding him rotten food. Bee man was shite though.

>> No.8751321

>>8748385
Nah, you're just a faggot. The original RE was supposed to be a first person shooter. Keep sucking disks though, retard.

>> No.8751328

>>8749236
So did literally 100 percent of the playerbase. Keep coping stealthlet.

>> No.8751336

>>8751012
You just self diagnosed your own autism. It was immediately and indisputably apparent to any regular player that Snake and the Boss held a strong relationship that went beyond student and mentor.

>> No.8751339

>>8751336
Yeah that was apparent, what that relationship was however was never given importance. I'm not gonna cry just because the writer bluntly said something is meant to be a sad scene

>> No.8751369

>>8751265
>Yes, but unlike Liquid and Solidus, Volgin isn't really the main antagonist, he just thinks he is which kinda makes it work
The Boss is really bland also. There' allthis legend about how awesome she is, but whenever she is on screen she is very bland.
The end fight is ok, but not neaely as good as the Solidus or Liquid fight.

>>8751293
All 3 MGS game have these cool things, but I feel in 3 the fights themselves were not that great.

>> No.8751370

>>8751265
>Compared to MGS1 Ocelot, yeah, but overall I gotta disagree with this.
To me he was kind of all over the place in a bad way. An above it all triple agent, a voice of reason to volgin, a bratty punk kid, and a sadistic fanboy stalker. At the end on the plane it would have felt more fitting for snake to just do a quick neck snap and dump him out the plane instead of the farewell smirk.

>> No.8751385

>>8751369
I feel the same about 2. It's by far my favourite of the series but the boss fights are a bit...rubbish. You've got Vamp where you just run around a tiny square and shoot him when he pops up. Fortune which isn't a fight, a bunch of MG Rays which is boring compared to Rex and the hardest boss of all (that choking segment in European Extreme). Fatman was quite good though with having to manage bomb clearing and fighting him at the same time and the Solidus end fight is thematically good but the sword fighting is too janky for it to be a fun fight.
MGS 1 by far has the best boss fights in the series. Each one is different enough from the last and they actually feel like proper battles with crazy enemies.

>> No.8751390

>>8751385
I really loved the Ray fight, especially on harder difficulties.

>> No.8751434

>>8748321
The issue I have with 3 is sort of the issue I have with all the metal gears. They're fantastic little playgrounds of secrets and easter eggs but if you're actually playing them as games instead of prep for a 100% secrets video they're very fleeting experiences. You blow through iconic chunks of the games in minutes never to return, watch a cutscene, mindlessly bruteforce a boss that's lavished with hidden mechanics and 20 minutes of support codecs, watch a cutscene and repeat until the game's over in 5 hours.

>> No.8751438
File: 304 KB, 1024x576, holy shit a complete game i cant fucking believe it.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8751438

>>8748321
>OP is a zoomer absolutely astonished that a game is complete and not obviously missing content
Holy fucking shit OP, all games were complete before the industry was overwhelmed by downloadable patches and DLC cancer. Why is /vt/ crawling with clueless zoomer scum?

>> No.8751441

>>8751385
It's a specific gripe but the harrier is very lame compared to the hind. That one actually felt like an attempt at simulating a duel with a helicopter, the harrier was more of a collection of themed minigames.

>> No.8751443

>>8751441
It says everything that I completely forgot the Harrier was even a fight.

>> No.8751445

>>8748321
MGS 3: Subsistence is a full game. Speaking of full, my prostate is in serious need of milking.

>> No.8751448

>>8748374
>Japanese polish and craftsmanship
Well said. I miss the 80s early 2000s.

>> No.8751450

>>8748385
A change was desperately needed. Besides, we still got classic horror in REmake and REmake 2.

>> No.8751453

>>8749091
Another excellent post. Good insights, especially how MGS 3 deftly handles the balance between realism and the paranormal.

>> No.8751461

>>8748385
the resident evil games were action adventure vehicles first, horror games second.

>> No.8751464

>>8751265
The End, The Sorrow and Fury where all cool fight. I agree that the Pain and Fear where dumb.

>> No.8751567

>>8751443
The Harrier is indeed lame.
The Hind makes at least some sense, since the weather is horrible. A one-on-one fight against a Harrier during the day in good weather makes no sense.

>>8751464
The Sorrow was a fun gimmick for the first playthrough. The Fury fight is ok, but that character is such a non-entity that it feels so underwhelming. I prefer a Shaman explaining how awesome ear-pulling is.

>> No.8751573

>>8751567
>I prefer a Shaman explaining how awesome ear-pulling is.
Fuck, forgot about that. Always made me kek.

>> No.8751915

>>8749681
No.
>>8751269
Yes.

>> No.8751924

>>8749701
That's the why there's first person view, sonar, and other devices to locate animals and enemies. So it absolutely does work for the design.

>> No.8751940

>>8748321
No. If anything, it's one of the most linear and empty.

>> No.8752012

>>8751328
More like 1% of the playerbase, coping nigger.

>> No.8752113

>>8748321
MGS3 was the only MGS game that was actually good as a game and not just as a playable movie.

Even if you skip all the cutscenes, you're still left with a pretty decent amount of gameplay, while the open environments and many different strategies you can take make for a good amount of replay value.

MGS1 and MGS2 are insanely overrated. They feel like 4th gen games gameplay-wise and they are inexcusably short, even by the standards of the respective generations. MGS2 especially relied on being a troll game, deceiving people even in trailers. It's a one trick pony, and it's not worth riding after that one trick.

I did admittedly enjoy Metal Gear story-wise, overall, but, unless it's a visual novel, I expect a significant amount of gameplay to back it up. MG1, MG2 and MGS3 had it, the other games in the series didn't.

>> No.8752125

>>8748385
Understandable, but I disagree. Sometimes a franchise needs a drastic change to stay fresh, and, in the case of RE4, it turned out to be good.

>> No.8752130

>>8752125
RE4 was a lot of fun and felt fresh after playing 6 traditional REs but I still feel they should have gone back to the fixed camera/pre-rendered style for RE5.

>> No.8752141

>>8752113
>They feel like 4th gen games gameplay-wise
>Ayyy bruh old games are so shit fr tho

This is the type of zoomer PS2 brought to the board

>> No.8752152

>>8749208
>after MGS2 I wanted to know more about where the story goes
the story in 2 wasnt even supposed to matter let alone a continuation of it

>> No.8752189

>>8752141
If I want 4th gen gameplay, I play 4th gen games. Video games are supposed to innovate and evolve over time, I'm sorry that you got personally offended at the mistaken implication that 4th gen games are bad, but you can't really do anything about people deliberately looking for excuses to get angry.

>> No.8752203

>>8752152
MSG2's story was, by every measure, a little more than an ebin troll meme. It felt like an anachronistic piece of Gen X media. It made so little sense that they had to heavily retcon it for an actual sequel, but this is getting off topic so I won't talk about it further.

>> No.8752343

The Fear, The Pain and The Fury were complete filler made to pad out the forced robot masters theming. They have no meaningful connection to Snake or the story and carry no impact. The only thing they actually accomplished was making the game way more goofy.

But The End, The Sorrow and The Boss were a cut above anything in Foxhound or Dead Cell so it makes up for it.

>> No.8752406

>>8752203
It made perfect sense. The problem is you want see it as a continuation of a narrative rather than a continuation of vydia (gameplay) experimentation, albeit that is largely Kojima's fault since the series trended the storyline focus since MG2SS and the fanbase obviously cannot seperate itself from that even when the game blatantly spells out that it is intended to, from the player's point-of-view.

>> No.8752510

>>8751438
>posts a pic of a game where the second half was obviously rushed and padded with forced backtracking
I think you're misinterpreting the post. Most games, even the greats, have at least some parts that you can feel are rushed, unfinished, or padded to some extent. It's easy to just overlook these things when they're not that egregious because it's so common. I think OP feels that MGS3 is miraculously free from those kinds of things.

>> No.8752621

>>8749208
MGS2 wasn't meant to have a sequel you daft retard. In fact it's mocking people like you who want infinite sequels.

>> No.8752625

>>8752203
It made literally perfect sense. It was meant to end the series. Sequels undone everything 2 did and turned MGS into another piece of shit joke like so many once beloved series.

>> No.8752653

>>8752621
>good game with a moderate sequel hook
>oh you wanted another one? fuck you piece of shit idiot asshole

>> No.8752663

>>8752621
>MGS2 wasn't meant to have a sequel
Neither was MGS1.

>> No.8752675

>>8752663
True, and that sentiment shows in MGS2. The whole plot structure being the same is basically them saying "you wanted another one of these, well there you go asshole". Luckily, plenty of other factors and ideas got into the game to create something brilliant, a true lightning in a bottle game. And much more of an effort was made to make sure this game couldn't be followed up narratively, as the hot trash disaster that is MGS4 showed eventually.

>> No.8752709

>>8749657
There are a number of exceptionally minute differences. For example, twirling the single action army in MGS3S causes the camera to move with it, while it remains stationary in the original. Also, using the torch as a melee weapon will KO enemies in one hit in the original, while it takes several hits in MGS3S. Don’t ask me why I know this.

>> No.8752721

>>8749127
The top down camera is kino

>> No.8752946

>>8752621
It might have landed better or been justified if MGS was a game suffering sequelitis at the time, it just comes across as auteur whining as-is.

>> No.8753134

>>8749127
as much as I have a softspot for the classic metal gear topdown view it's just a non starter when you have realistic enemy sight lines, constantly having to switch to first person is a flawed compromise.

>> No.8753137

>>8752510
>Most games, even the greats, have at least some parts that you can feel are rushed, unfinished, or padded to some extent.
No they don't. Before games could be updated over the internet the vast majority of them shipped in a finished state.

>> No.8753193

>>8752946
anon, mgs2 was the fourth game in the series

>> No.8753197

>>8751438
mgs1 is an example of an obviously incomplete game

>> No.8753198

>>8753137
not that guy but please learn to read nigger

>> No.8753205

>>8753197
Humor me. What's incomplete about MGS?

>> No.8753208

>>8748585
>If only you didn't to pause all the time for the camouflage
it makes sense though, you shouldn't be changing clothes every minute you should find the best one for the current scenario not just changing every time you move over a different type of vegetation

>> No.8753210

>>8753205
backtracking to pad out game time

>> No.8753219

>>8753197
mgs1 mostly hides that pretty well, mgs2 on the other hand yeah that's notoriously incomplete. half the bosses got caught.

>> No.8753221

>>8753210
Not a very convincing example.
>pad out game time
The backtracking amounts to 10 minutes of play, tops. Do you believe that the backtracking was not originally intended? You think they did that because they could not complete the game in time for release?

>> No.8753229

>>8752621
Games made just to "prove a point", like MGS2, end up being garbage once their edgy take is made.

MGS3 had no such petty pretense, and that's why it's the superior game by every measure.

>> No.8753235

>>8753137
Just because something was "finished" doesn't mean it wasn't rushed or that it fulfilled its potential.

>> No.8753241

>>8752406
>>8752625
It made sense, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it was nothing but trolling, which ironically went to prove itself wrong by having more and more sequels.

>> No.8753253

>>8749282
I did a playthrough on Hard where I had a self imposed challenge to kill every enemy in every area before I could move on and exclusively used the Zombie paint and no shirt camo. I read on several forums that you can also frighten enemies but I never saw that happen

>> No.8753263

>>8749282
Same with the tux but it looks fucken fly

>> No.8753279

>>8753193
Yes, the fourth. Before MGS2, the entire Metal Gear series had only three games (if we exclude Snake's Revenge) during the span of ELEVEN years. MGS in particular came out 8 years after MG2. That hardly qualifies as "sequelitis" in my opinion considering that it's a relatively low number of games for the time span, and also considering that MGS was the first in 3D, not even comparable to the first two from a technical perspective, and hence safe from feeling like more of the same. Many established franchises already had significantly more titles by the time MGS came out.

I can't help but agree with those who felt like this entire premise of MGS2 was poor and looking for an excuse to "subvert expectations" and mock the fans. It's only made even weaker by the fact that we later had multiple sequels and prequels. which ultimately defeated the point that MGS2 tried to make.

>> No.8753293

>>8749127
It provides an "old school" Metal Gear feeling, but it only really works well in closed environments, which is where its predecessors mostly took place.

A free camera is more fitting for a game with wide open areas such as MGS3. I think it should have been the default since day 1 (with the option to use the overhead camera as a fallback, of course).

>> No.8753316

>>8751434
In retrospective, I hate that I'm starting to agree with this. You described it well: all Metal Gear games feel like a large collection of trivia and gotchas. There is admittedly something interesting about this, it's fun to find every Easter egg hidden under every nook and cranny. But what Metal Gear lacks is a cohesive experience all the way through, and that's a must in my opinion for a great game.

>> No.8753343

>>8753137
I don't think you realize how old the practice of online distribution is. You're trying too hard to fit in.

>> No.8753354

>>8753229
No, cope.

>> No.8753394

>>8753316
Irrelevant details are unironically one of my favorite things in games.

>> No.8753693

>>8752621
If I get a sequal to a narrative heave game, I expect it ti be a sequal, not a prequal, which 9 out of 10 times suck.
So fuck you.

>>8753208
It's still pausing the game to do busy work.

>> No.8753794

>>8753208
that was the biggest weakness of the camo system, there was no limitation applied to you to force you to make choices, if you were willing to constantly go through menus you could always have the ideal camo on at any given moment.

>> No.8753824

>>8753693
sequel*
prequel*

>> No.8754195

>>8753824
>Game is literally name Metal Gear Solid 3
>I want it to continue where 2 left off
Is this somehow confusing to you?

>> No.8754295

>>8754195
It's a good thing you don't like Devil May Cry

>> No.8754420

>>8754295
I really don't care for it, only played through 1.

>> No.8754534

>>8754195
I was correcting your spelling errors.

>> No.8755389
File: 63 KB, 500x484, 1439418612950.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8755389

>>8748321
I did not enjoy this game until I played it on hard. The balance is so much better when you can't rely on the radar tools or endless silenced headshotting.
Legitimately one of the best stealth experiences ever and razorfist is a faggot for not realizing this.

>> No.8755468

>>8748997
Not at 7 frames per second

>> No.8755482

>>8748374
Agreed. I think the original Silent Hill games are also a great example of amazing artistry and craftsmanship.

>> No.8755630
File: 33 KB, 800x450, boss.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8755630

>>8748783
So he could add snake vs monkey and secret theater.

The controllable camera was a nice addition but honestly the screeching about it was absurd. Between being able to move the cinematic cam around and first -person view there really weren't lot of instances when the camera was an issue. The cinematic camera is actually very helpful in some places like the cliffs where your direct line of sight is obstructed.

>> No.8756215

Ordering a cheap MGS HD edition and MGS4.
Whats the correct way of playing them in order?

>> No.8756237 [DELETED] 

>>8756215
One after the other.

>> No.8756240 [DELETED] 

>>8755468
>muh framerate!

>> No.8756246

>>8756215
>MGS4
don't waste your money, its the worst entry in the series and an awful game overall.
The first hour of the game has good gameplay but thats it

>> No.8756472

>>8756246
The first part is ok, then shadow Moses is actually pretty cool, controlling rex is fucking awesome though it makes no sense that it's still there. The problem with the game is the last quarter of the story and the 1 hour of cut scenes.

>> No.8756483

>>8756472
>then shadow Moses is actually pretty cool
I hated that part, shitty enemies and nostalgia exploitation that just reminds me that I could be playing a much better game (mgs1)

yes being able to control rex was cool but in the story it really made no sense

>> No.8756559

>>8756246
I thought Phantom Pain was worse...

>> No.8756628

>>8756559
I liked mgs5 because of the gameplay, mgs4 had like an hour of good gameplay in there and the story was atrocious

>> No.8757145

>>8756246
Shut up bitch.
>>8756215
Count up, genius.

>> No.8757176

>>8756215
Release date, and play 4, don't listen to faggots

>> No.8757193

>>8753193
It was the second game after reviving a series that was dead for 10 years and had been entirely reimagined. He didn't have a leg to stand on to whine about having to make derivative sequel games, his career barely contained any at the time of MGS2's writing. Konami was an asshole company to work for so it's understandable he could be unhappy even still, but blaming it on consumer interest in sequels was batting in the wrong direction if that was the case.

>> No.8757408

>>8756559
It is.
PP is no fun, at least Acts 1 and 2 have fun gameplay in 4 and Act 4 is a nice taint tickle.

>> No.8757439

>>8748321
I have a friend who looks just like the Fear, I can't unsee him.

>> No.8757442

>>8756559
It is. Gameplay being good doesn't mean shit when the level design doesn't complement it, and what few pieces of the story that actually made it into the game are significantly worse than anything in MGS4

>> No.8757445

>>8756215
This >>8757176 but don't play anything after 4

>> No.8757446

>>8757439
Is he australian?

>> No.8757447

>>8748321
The sad thing is that it could have been even better if they never released the pathetic pseudo-intellectual copypasted bullshit that MGS2 was and focused more on MGS3 to improve it even further.

It had poorer framerate in comparison to MGS2 because MGS3 was originally intended to be released for the PS3, they had to cut down on the models and environment to make it playable on PS2. Had it been tailor-made for the PS2 instead, we would have gotten an even superior title.

>> No.8757451

>>8756215
>Whats the correct way of playing them in order?
What kind of a question is this? If you've already decided to play them, you might as well play them in release order. This is especially important for a heavily plot-driven series such as Metal Gear.

>> No.8757621

>>8757193
Why do you assume Kojima did MGS2 out of spite for fanbase demand of sequels rather than just experimentation and exploring of the medium? I honestly never felt that Kojima designed the game with that mal-intention towards users or even other developers until MGS4 where it painfully shows his frustration. MGS2 seems a genuine game at breaking boundaries and dwelling into what makes a sequel a success by deconstructing the concept (further pushed with Substance as a sequel to VR Missions too) instead of being a complain about the industry lack of creativity and using franchises as cash-cows (which is nevertheless true).

>> No.8757678

>>8748321
I was mainly disappointed that there was no way to unlock the ninja sword or radar from MGS2. It sucks that my favorite weapon is only useable for less than a 3rd of MGS2 even on new game plus.

>> No.8757998

>>8757447
>because MGS3 was originally intended to be released for the PS3
Never heard of this. If it were actually released as a PS3 game it would be the best game on the system by such a retarded margin, it's not even funny.

>> No.8758264

>>8748585
Nigga you use tiger stripe for 75% of the game, the rest is the black one and your bare tits.

>> No.8758430

>>8757442
mgs4 has the worst story, it ruined the franchise

>> No.8758884

>>8757621
To me, MGS1 was the conclusion of the original Metal Gear story that started on the MSX. MGS2 was Kojima trying new things with the series, for better or worse.

>> No.8759154

>>8758884
Story-wise, Metal Gear should have ended with MGS1. It built on the foundations of the first two Metal Gears to deliver a well thought-out plot with a reasonably conclusive ending (especially the good one).

While it did not rule out a sequel in principle, all attempts at prolonging the story ended up being a clusterfuck of retcons and poor execution, I couldn't help but feel like they were trying too hard to drag something that was already finished.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't have been any new Metal Gear games at all: on the contrary, I welcomed MGS3, being a prequel, and it's one of my favorite games to this day. I'm saying that there shouldn't have been any chronological sequels since the story did not demand it.

The unanswered questions were in the past, not the future. Prequels proved to be far more interesting and constructive to the universe, which is not surprising considering that this is what Konami itself ended up focusing on during the past years.

>> No.8759169

>>8758430
I agree, but MGS4 can be excused at least in part since it had to stand on the extremely brittle foundations left by MGS2.

>> No.8759372

>>8759169
that doesn't excuse any of the retarded retcons it made

>> No.8759551

>>8758884
>>8759154
I don't entirely disagree but MGS1 did literally have a cliffhanger mentioning Solidus

>> No.8759563

>>8759372
Honestly I'll take nanomachines being a poor excuse for supernatural shit and the MGS3 support team being the bad guys over YOU, THE EPIC GAMER WHO IS ALSO BIG BOSS (but not REALLY Big Boss), trying to stop an Evangelion mech and a magical English extermination virus made by the guy who was retconned into MGS3 as the janitor who cleaned up Big Boss's shit

>> No.8759573

>>8759563
In addition to this, somehow MGS4 Ocelot roleplaying as Liquid still feels more like Ocelot than MGSV Troy Baker Ocelot. In MGS3 he doesn't feel like MGS3 Ocelot or MGS1/2 Ocelot, much less an in-between stage. He's completely out of character

>> No.8759586

>>8759563
the thing I hated was how kojima felt he needed to connect EVERY metal gear character no matter how small to the global patriots conspiracy
even para medic, even sigint, even the joke character who shits himself
the story sucked so much in every aspect i could go on about it all day

>> No.8759659

>>8749208
I started the game a few days ago and played it up until Eva got introduced and then quit. It just felt off to me, like most of the charm from MGS1 and MGS2 was gone. The support team is lifeless and boring, the Virtuous Mission sucked, the tutorial sucked (just compare MGS3's tutorial to MGS2's to see the shocking difference in quality) the music sucked compared to the previous two games, the codecs weren't fun anymore, the classic interface from MGS1 and MGS2 was gone, including the codec interface, and the story was stupid. Why send one guy who couldn't even pull the trigger when he had a perfect opportunity to shoot The Boss to save the world from certain nuclear war? And then he gets another perfect chance to shoot her and he fails once again. Even the voice acting was a big step down from MGS1 and MGS2, with Ocelot being a great example of this.

>> No.8759838

>>8759586
Oh yeah I won't defend that, especially considering it didn't stop with MGS4. Big Boss knowing Otacon's dad will always be fucking ridiculous to me. Even worse considering he's literally a carbon copy of Otacon except with a way worse personality

>> No.8760083

>>8759551
"Solidus" was just a final stinger to explain how and why the bombing run was cancelled. It really wasn't meant to lead into any sequels.

>> No.8760469

>>8759551
>>8760083
As I said, it did not rule out a sequel, but neither did it demand it. I would have much preferred if the story ended right there and then than all this later needless complexity and reconning.

Even MGS3 suffered from this, with its own "sequels" (technically prequels with respect to the original games) introducing additional elements which only created more confusion and did not do any justice to the original story, which was fine in itself.

>> No.8760898

>>8759659
>Why send one guy who couldn't even pull the trigger when he had a perfect opportunity to shoot The Boss to save the world from certain nuclear war? And then he gets another perfect chance to shoot her and he fails once again.
Villains can't die easy. This is to extend the story repeating it self. It's an old technique used by hollywood movies with cheap plots. And heros are meant to be the merciful cucks otherwise they would be bad like the villains and that would be considered morally wrong

>> No.8760959

>>8757447
>mgs2 is just joyless pseud wank
There is a lot of cringe in mgs2, a lot of annoying, goofy shit, but the basic plot is pretty standard crowdpleasing red meat. Things aren't what they seem and over the game you unravel a spooky conspiracy, it's the truman show and the matrix in a videogame. My normie brothers loved the colonel sequence back in the day.

>> No.8760981

>>8757998
...it is on ps3 you fucking idiot

>> No.8761643

>>8760981
Not the anon you're responding to but learn to use context clues. He's talking about if MGS3 was released on PS3 alone, taking full advantage of the console. A PS2 game ported to PS3 isn't the same as a game designed around the PS3

>> No.8761835

>>8760469
Technically, the story did end. It's just that MGS2 and onward made a new story about the Patriots, Big Boss, and how they were all connected, and poor Snake got reduced to a side character in his own series.

Even in MGS2, the first thing Kojima does is take away Snake's happy ending from MGS1 and send him back to Alaska as a drunken wreck of a man whom Meryl gave up on and left.

>> No.8761864

>>8748374
I'm of the impression that Kojima only wanted to make Solid 1, and every time Konami asked him to make a follow up he tried doing everything he could to bomb the project so that he doesn't have to do it again. Konami eventually had enough of him by MGS5 and rushed the game to boot him. Now look at Death Stranding, a game he WANTED to make, and how boring and shit it is. Kojima works best when he does things out of spite.

>> No.8762035

>>8761864
Kojima didn't even think of Metal Gear 2 until a co-worker told him about Snake's Revenge and asked him to make a real MG sequel. Given how many set-pieces MGS1 recycles from MG2, I'm thinking MGS1 is the sequel he wanted to make but couldn't due to the technology not being there yet.

>> No.8762398

>>8762035
>I'm thinking MGS1 is the sequel he wanted to make but couldn't due to the technology not being there yet.
i remember him stating this explicitly in an interview, it may have been on his wikipedia page at some point

>> No.8764792
File: 9 KB, 112x112, 1617158495803.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8764792

>>8761643
Thank you for defending me anon-kun.