Fighting Games

[Anonymous No.8741460]

Anyone here tuned in to any fighting game scenes in Japan?

I'm very curious what their recent tier lists are for 3rd Strike in particular, because in contrast the West fucking sucks at the game and spouts a lot of retarded shit regarding its balance and such.
I wanna know what the real experts think, but I don't speak Japanese and so have no way to go about finding it out.

[Anonymous No.8741598]

>>8741460
>recent tier lists
Same as its always been.

[Anonymous No.8741617]

>>8741598
I said Japanese ones, specifically in contempt of the Western "everyone but Chun and Yun sucks" take

[Anonymous No.8741634]

>>8741617
Ken is good too. Thread finished.

[Anonymous No.8741650]

>>8741617
I used to watch a lot of The Shend, which uploaded Japanese tournament matches. It was still Chun/Yun winning everything. I stopped watching around 2013, having been burned out on Third Strike after being in it for like 7 years. Then I've only recently started picking it up again.

[Anonymous No.8741661]

>>8741650
>I stopped watching around 2013
the meta has developed immensely in the past 8 or so years, even in the absence of kuroda
Q has a good main, Remy has a good main, Hugo has good mains, Necro has a good main, I've even seen an excellent Twelve

Japan has really demonstrated the worth of these characters the Americans foolishly wrote off

[Anonymous No.8741663]

>>8741661
But.... it's like ice skating uphill. Chun/Yun just have huge advantages and you can win more than you should but they should still win overall.

Chun can link everything into Super Art 2 which does huge damage.

[Anonymous No.8741675]

>>8741460
Look up Kuroda or Hayao on YouTube. Watch them bitch slap everyone with Hugo and Q

[Anonymous No.8741693]

>>8741663
>But.... it's like ice skating uphill. Chun/Yun just have huge advantages and you can win more than you should but they should still win overall.
Everyone in 3rd Strike has the tools they need to be viable; it's just a matter of using the character to the full potential and playing the matchup correctly

This is the best Necro in Japan against a Yun and Chun

Sugiyama (NE) vs. SHO (YU) Michael-tan (CH)
2,637 views
Dec 3, 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey9KRRVezqs

[Anonymous No.8741706]

Look at this Twelve player as another example: uses the invisibility, stays grounded and zones properly

Makotsu (KE) vs. 12 Mania (TW)
3,466 views
Aug 27, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgB0vQuDCeA

Making the supposed worst character in the game look solid

[Anonymous No.8741709]

>>8741460
Yun >>> ken > chun > the rest. Also Qis better than you think.

[Anonymous No.8741716]

>>8741706
Twelve is the worst? I thought for sure it was Oro. He's fuckin terrible

[Anonymous No.8741717]

>>8741716
Americans / Westerners call Sean and Twelve the worst

[Anonymous No.8741719]

>>8741634
>parries ur shoryuken
nothin personnel
https://youtu.be/_vhYuA_xPo0

[Anonymous No.8741721]

Is there a new Dudley meta? I remember when I played it was alla bout linking Corkscrew blow, because it linked into everything. But now I'm seeing players use the other super art, which does more damage, and linking it in ways I didn't think possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kg76D2BjUc

[Anonymous No.8741727]

>>8741719
speaking of Hugo, I just finished watching YSB get mollywhopped by a Q

I've always thought he's significantly inferior to Hayao, far and away the best hugo player on the planet

[Anonymous No.8741731]

>>8741716
Oro's not top tier by any means but he's got some amazing tech keeping him afloat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLd1bwOqNeE

[Anonymous No.8741734]

>>8741716
nah he's sneaky good
oro can catch you with a stomp/uppercut loop and trap you with his big ball super art on wakeup

[Anonymous No.8741756]

>>8741719
Hayao is the GOAT eternally
https://youtu.be/I9eGDpFAygw

[Anonymous No.8741881]

>>8741716
dont ever post again I fucking mean it.

[Anonymous No.8741896]

No one in here plays the bare minimum of the game to be able to say anything about balance.
Just google a fucking japanese player's tier list

[Anonymous No.8741974]

>>8741896
I played 3s in arcades in the 2000s. Fought Ibuikis, Chuns, Alex's. You name it but almost nobody picked Sean or Tweleve. I am a Ken scrub who never once beat Sean's bonus stage. Never watched top Jap players yet I was still able to take games from everyone I played. Never took sets from the tippy top players here but I just played it for fun with basic combos and punishing everything I could with super. I feel you can go quite far with your own knowledge and set ups as you're not trying to copy anyone and overcomplicating your playstyle.

[Anonymous No.8742009]

I like playing ryu and Ken
I know deshiken is best ken, but who best ryu?
3s best fighting game imo

[Anonymous No.8742010]

>>8741896
Jwong has a tier list on jewtube

[Anonymous No.8742235]

>abluubluu look at these tiny number of players that managed to make mid/low tier work when they could do 10,000 times better if they picked high tier
Wow, you sure showed us.

[Anonymous No.8742256]

>>8742235
s-shut up

[Anonymous No.8742393]

>>8742009
>who best ryu?
I don't know if he's actually the best but you better get used to watching Kuni.
iirc there's also another supposedly big name in Vanao

but I don't focus enough on Ryu matches to be the arbiter of quality there
so placeholder is Kuni with the caveat that he's simply the most active player on the biggest channel; might be some hidden bosses in smaller channels like acho in their long ass raw streams

[Anonymous No.8742401]

>>8742010
literally no different than any shit you'd find an English speaking tard parroting anywhere on the internet

Americans do not know 3rd Strike in all its glory

[Anonymous No.8742420]

>>8742235
>they could do 10,000 times better if they picked high tier

Sometimes I do watch some guys who play atypically with their mains, like TM with Q and Pierrot with Remy, who are way more aggressive players than their character would be thought to enable, and wonder just how they settled upon them in particular and why they never seemed to try out anyone else, but I don't think their choice holds them back, and they obviously do amazing stuff with their choice regardless.

Yet other guys like Sugiyama (Necro) and Hayao (Hugo), you would identify their playstyle with their character, and they don't seem to be held back in the slightest.

The point of the thread is that our Western conceptions of 3rd Strike's "tier list" are by now obviously deeply flawed. The fact that early on the scene adopted the mindset of "everyone outside of our Top 3 isn't worth playing" really hindered the growth and development of the meta, to the point where there is no Western Sugiyama, there is no Western Hayao, there is no Western TM, there is no Western Pierrot, much less a Western Kuroda, not even a Western Tominaga, etc. etc.

When you watch those guys, you don't get the sense that you're watching Mid-tiers and Low-tiers pulling through against all odds, you only see that because you're importing years long mistaken assumptions and ignorance about how the game works into your perception of the matches.

[Anonymous No.8742423]

>>8742401
It's not like Japan has some secret 3S ladder where everyone plays Q and Sean or anything. Top tiers are the same everywhere, the game has been figured out ages ago.

[Anonymous No.8742440]

>>8742423
>It's not like Japan has some secret 3S ladder where everyone plays Q and Sean or anything
You don't need everyone playing Low Tiers, all it takes is one dude cracking heads to prove its worth, and Q has had at the very least two by now (Kuroda, TM), if not more.
>Top tiers are the same everywhere
That's not true.
>the game has been figured out ages ago
No, it wasn't. The meta 10 years ago is nothing like the meta 5 years ago or today. The guys who play on the 3rd Strike channel have forced us to reexamine the actual potential of a whole bunch of characters formerly written off.

There's no secret ladder, there's a thriving scene of veteran character specialists who have managed to unlock a lot of the depth in the game that years ago when Western opinion became established lay undiscovered. We're years and years behind actual peak 3rd Strike now and the opinion of these side of the world almost doesn't count for jackshit at this point.

[Anonymous No.8742818]

>>8742235
Seethe harder kennigger

[Anonymous No.8742823]

>>8741661
Anon, just because there are autists who have mained lowtiers for literal decades and can hang with high tiers being played by everyone and their grandma does not make those lowtiers NOT shit.

[Anonymous No.8742829]

>>8741661
This whole Japanese perspective on tier lists reminds me a lot of Initial D, in that a seemingly useless car is able to keep its own, and defeat, much better vehicles. Granted later on there's a lot of driver error and the 86 eventually gets a better engine, putting it on par with the other cars, but the point still stands.

[Anonymous No.8742837]

>>8742823
>if you dont use the cheapest/easiest character you have autism!
Have we reached a new age of cope on /vr/?

[Anonymous No.8742853]

>>8742837
>cheapest/easiest character
and that's precisely what 3S "high tiers" come down to, is not that they are stronger than everyone else necessary but easier to pick up and play compared to the amount of work it is to master the other characters, as well as their playstyles being easier for the average player to understand

[Anonymous No.8742860]

>>8742829
>This whole Japanese perspective on tier lists
Well the thing is that we don't know what they consider the real tier list to be after all these years of playing good "mid" and "low" tier players, which is the OP question: what do they think? Because they certainly wouldn't be parroting what some people ITT are saying and what the Western playerbase in large says.

[Anonymous No.8742905]

>>8741460
search google using japanese text...

"ストリートファイターIII サードストライク" "ティア"

[Anonymous No.8742923]

>>8742440
where is the 3rd Strike channel?

how do you know all of this?

[Anonymous No.8742975]

>>8742923
>where is the 3rd Strike channel?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcpPdn-PzGeQodVc8STGtwA

>how do you know all of this?
by watching them play for years now

but you can get a primer thanks to this one dude's series that profiles some of the big names, which is a few years old now but still relevant:

Pierrot (Remy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckJDFmZSnZw

Tominaga (Makoto)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfXWKB84TVE

TM (Q)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZLbOGB1a84

Sugiyama (Necro)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXqMnYQUuZw

[Anonymous No.8742995]

/vr/ is sleeping on the game newton channel/tourneys
https://youtu.be/tCwkjK5q6xI

[Anonymous No.8743006]

[Anonymous No.8743030]

>>8743006
What the fuck was that Urien's problem?

[Anonymous No.8743090]

>>8742905
>ストリートファイターIII サードストライク" "ティア
thanks, not as much a lead as I hoped for but I found Vanao's ranking (doesn't rank his own main though)

[Anonymous No.8743105]

>>8743090
nvm I somehow missed Ryu there

[Anonymous No.8743108]

>>8741460
I don't think there is a divergence of the level there was 20 years ago. You can't really hide tech/footage like you used to and I doubt it will be wildly different from the west's views. The only real difference is that there are more communities for niche games like 3s.

[Anonymous No.8743113]

>>8741661
Jap tier lists are worthless because they don't objectively rate the characters, they rate whether anyone good plays the characters. Zangief in SF5 is the easiest example of this. He's dogshit and has been for the lifetime of the entire game, but Itabashi plays him so he's always at worst mid tier to them. The reverse with Alex, Alex is always absolute bottom to them because no one in Japan plays Alex. Their tier lists are fucking awful because they grade people instead of characters.

[Anonymous No.8743116]

>>8741661
>good
>good
>good
>good
yeah but how many 1st place finishes have these specialists gotten?

[Anonymous No.8743123]

>>8743113
I disagree. It sounds to me like a bit of a double-edge sword, where instead of doing the completely retarded a priori armchair theorizing westerners seem to engage in, they actually take into account the performances of players as evidence of certain characters being better or worse than they first appeared to be on the surface

it does't make sense to me to ignore results and focus on preconceived notions of strength based on frame data etc. that can absolutely be misleading in a vacuum and when analyzed in isolation from the rest of a character's build/makeup

[Anonymous No.8743143]

>>8741460
Japs play a completely different format for 3s tournaments, so their tierlists are naturally going to differ. They play bo1 a lot because of how bad the character balance in 3s is.

[Anonymous No.8743146]

>>8743116
The only official tournaments they have as far as I have been able to make out is Capcom Cooperation Cup and this other one I forget the name of; the first is a team effort and the last one, well, I just don't watch as much tournament footage as compared to casuals. I don't speak Japanese so following brackets and such without the curated clips telling me who's playing who is difficult and tedious.

It's hard to say who all is good in each individual scene and who are the shitters just from looking at their gameplay in isolation. You really need to rate them in comparison to each other and it's kinda boring for me to watch the bevy of Yangs and such so I can't say much about who's actually dominant in Japan.

I just watch those guys kick ass in whatever videos happen to feature them. They beat players of supposedly better characters in ways that don't suggest to me there's anything horrifically flawed with their own character. But again I only have so good a grasp on who else are good players and bad players, so I can't say like "Oh this Alex player beat the best Yun player in Japan handily".

[Anonymous No.8743156]

>>8741617
>Western "everyone but Chun and Yun sucks" take
That's not Western that's exactly why they play like >>8743143

Never mind, just realized we are all posting in a Q3sAnon thread.

[Anonymous No.8743160]

>>8743123
This is a video game, there is no "heart" factor involved or any bullshit like that. Chun-Li is objectively the best character in 3S, and she always will be. American tier lists are based on objective data, Jap tier lists are based on "Well Daigo plays the character, so they're at minimum A tier"

[Anonymous No.8743169]

>>8743160
>Chun-Li is objectively the best character in 3S
By what metrics?
>American tier lists are based on objective data
American tier lists are based on "oh look at this frame data, it's the end all be all, nevermind looking at all aspects of a character or readjusitng perception based on what character specialists manage to pull out"

It's outdated and tunnel vision

[Anonymous No.8743180]

>>8742401
>>8743160
Stop replying to Q3sanon. He's mentally disabled (possibly autistic). He used to spam Q threads about Q being the best character until people realized that he's retarded and doesn't play 3s and just wants to post argumentative paragraphs and fantasize about Japanese 3s and Q. He samefags and argues with himself as well.
He resorted to making subtle threads and quickly tries to derail the thread into a tierlist babble.

I actually haven't seen a thread from him in a while, should have realized from the OP it was him right away.

[Anonymous No.8743184]

>>8742420
what bullshit are you smoking to blame it all on westerners? the only reason you don't see real tournament footage of american players using lesser used characters is because
1. you don't play fightcade
2. arcades are dead in america, and by extension so are tournaments
every japanese player will tell you chun and yun ARE the best, the only reason you see japanese maining remy/q/hugo etc. is because nobody is out there making media of the american players, because the american scene is pretty much JUST fightcade 2
so shut the fuck up faggot god damn, go fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.8743241]

>>8742420
why are you so deep into SF3?

surely there is some Japanese blog that has tier lists on it?

[Anonymous No.8743246]

>>8743184
>what bullshit are you smoking to blame it all on westerners?
I'm contrasting the Japanese scene with non-Asian ones
anywhere you look on the English-speaking internet, you will more or less see the exact same opinion stated as to who is supposedly top tier and who's low tier
>the only reason you don't see real tournament footage of american players using lesser used characters is because
this isn't about footage, this is about public opinion
the footage of the Japanese players is used to demonstrate the quality of these characters that Westerners have overlooked; but by all means, if there are such amazing players, do name them and provide footage of them. I am assuming however that they don't exist.
>2. arcades are dead in america, and by extension so are tournaments
that doesn't make sense.
>every japanese player will tell you chun and yun ARE the best
then prove it by posting their stated opinions, which is what the thread is about; otherwise you are making shit up
>the only reason you see japanese maining remy/q/hugo etc. is because nobody is out there making media of the american players
that makes zero sense
>so shut the fuck up faggot god damn, go fuck yourself
no u retard

[Anonymous No.8743252]

>>8743246
>doesn't deny he doesn't play the game
get fucked autist

[Anonymous No.8743254]

>>8743241
>why are you so deep into SF3?
because it's a very interesting game with a lot of quality in all aspects
I've been playing fighting games since I was a child and it's one of my favorite genres

3rd Strike is fascinating to spectate and analyze the game design decisions behind it, which only really come out when you see high level play, and that high level play only really is coming out of Japan now

>surely there is some Japanese blog that has tier lists on it?
I don't know, I don't speak Japanese and have no social media, I have no clue what the top players theres' takes are, but I'm very interested to know and I assume it'll be different from what English speakers say, given they have plenty of experience with these allegedly bad characters being good

[Anonymous No.8743260]

>>8743252
I do play the game; this clearly isn't about me or my skill or you or yours

And I respond to whatever I want to

[Anonymous No.8743263]

this thread is rubbish

[Anonymous No.8743292]

>>8743263
I quite like it. it's nice hearing about the OP's deep interest in SF3.

[Anonymous No.8743484]

OP do you have any links to obscure SF3 websites?

[Anonymous No.8743487]

Or any good combo instructions??

[Anonymous No.8743504]

this became a third strike thread

[Anonymous No.8743529]

Mikado:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPrifqgoJmq7UgmRkZUKTJQ

Big One2nd:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGSCPrKg-pp2SqgJaEQI1jA

A-cho:
https://www.youtube.com/user/GAMEacho

Game Newton:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIq8ow2OP3mRqWDVm7aRXCA

Playland F1R:
https://www.youtube.com/user/shimatuya

Neverland:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD2uUINjGUo_E2Ym25tBE6A

Kohatsu:
https://www.youtube.com/user/kouhatsu/featured

Here is every channel I can think of that uploads footage of sets from Japanese players, not really organized but if you're looking for a specific game I imagine you'll probably find it. Please support these arcades if you ever get the chance.

t. Guy who actually plays and loves fighting games.

[Anonymous No.8743554]

>>8742401
Have you beaten J Wong?

[Anonymous No.8743615]

>>8743529
thanks bro.

[Anonymous No.8743616]

>>8743529
>>8742975
Know of any good videos for SFA3? (An actually good game).

[Anonymous No.8743639]

>>8743616
Both Mikado and Big One2nd has a ton of A3 footage and streams it often, despite it being sort of a meme not all of it is V-ism either. As for non Japanese stuff all I can really think of is Kyokuji's channel, this guy alone basically keeps this game alive outside of Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDrPHgX-UtqX0cYhO9ICy_A

[Anonymous No.8743645]

>>8743639
great links, thanks!

[Anonymous No.8743649]

>>8743616

[Anonymous No.8743656]

>>8743649
Cool but would never happen outside of a TAS.

[Anonymous No.8743657]

>>8743649
a3 is broken as fuck

[Anonymous No.8743658]

Do Japanese players have a different playstyle compared to Americans or Europeans?

[Anonymous No.8743718]

>>8743658
You need to be less vague, in what regard?

[Anonymous No.8743719]

>>8743718
In regard to SF3.

[Anonymous No.8743728]

>>8743719
That's still pretty vague. The top Japanese players probably are better then the best US players but ultimately the game's meta is well established and people know what works and what doesn't. I can't think of anything specific that one region does that the other doesn't.

[Anonymous No.8743732]

>>8741974
Cool.
I've only played 4 and 5 more seriously (aka REALLY tryharding online until higher ranks, playing tournaments etc, streaming and whatnot)
In my opinion tier lists only ever do matter if you've reached the top 5%-1% of the playerbase.
When you're way up there, yes, the character does matter.
Anything below that mark, character doesn't matter so much, as you'll still have some problems of your own to work on, so a guy using a bottom char can definitely bag a god tier char.
I got bodied by Alex a whole bunch on SFV and I main Cammy.

[Anonymous No.8743742]

>>8743143
They play BO1 because that's how Japan has done it for decades in FTG. Truly stupid format.

>>8742440
Dude what the fuck are you talking about. Yun Chun Ken still the best characters without question. Low tier heroes playing Oro and Q aren't winning tournaments. Only Kuroda was and he was literally the best player on Earth until he went to jail for being a pedo.
Go back.

[Anonymous No.8743870]

>>8742440
The low tiers suck in japan too you stupid weeb and if you actually played this game on fightcade you would know plenty of people are playing low/mid tiers all day because 3rd strike has a tiny shitty roster and we are all sick of Yun/Chun/Ken.

[Anonymous No.8743889]

>>8743732
I love Shinkiro's work.

[Anonymous No.8743943]

>>8743656
https://youtu.be/cD4fi3pyrf8

[Anonymous No.8743946]

>>8743656
Isn't it just a typical crouch cancel nonsense?

[Anonymous No.8743949]

>>8742440
You're talking to brick walls anon, it's not worth bothering with. People learn who the top tiers of a game are and then complain about them despite not playing.
>>8743946
No, you would never see that kind of infinite in a real match. Crouch cancel infinites are enough as is, requiring two actions to be done in a single frame.

[Anonymous No.8744293]

>>8742393
Thanks yes ive been watching vanao and Kuni, very impressive ryu play I like it and want to get better!

>>8742401
Don't take tier lists so serious they just give a rough subjective outline

[Anonymous No.8746025]

>>8743658
i don't think so

[Anonymous No.8748080]

>>8743656
>>8743949
the stomp itself isnt very difficult even online. the hardest part is the setup and the one in the video is airtechable, so yeah you wouldnt see it in matches but for different reasons.

[Anonymous No.8748103]

>>8741460
3rd strike gameplay is so gay on some parts, like punching thin air all the time to gain more meter. I love the fast paced and agressive gameplay tho, even if i suck at parrying

[Anonymous No.8749615]

3S West has leveled up considerably in the last few years that the recent Yipes tourney from few days was actually fun to watch. It was pleasant to see that it wasn't plagued with the usual top tier suspects.

When it comes to 3S tier list, the characters that have historically been polarized between the west and Japan are Hugo and Oro, iirc. Japan places both characters higher than west and that trend seems to continue.

[Anonymous No.8749673]

>>8743732
>playing sfv, even once
Yikes.

[Anonymous No.8749727]

>>8749615
I've seen good western Hugos but I can't think of any good western Oros.

[Anonymous No.8749843]

>>8749727
One of Fightcade's top players used to main Oro. He went by Hrove but he's not active anymore.

[Anonymous No.8749851]

>>8749843
Shame, would like to see if his style differed from how hes played by Japanese players.
Its always fun to see the contrast

[Anonymous No.8751752]

>>8743484
http://homepage3gore.game.coocan.jp/st33rd/
I'm not even sure precisely what this is