ITT: poor game design

[Anonymous No.8631153]

[Anonymous No.8631161]

>>8631153
Only a problem if you didn't have the manual.

[Anonymous No.8631174]

>>8631161
and so it was that tons of pirates, third worlders, and dumb young kids were stopped from beating this game

[Anonymous No.8631186]

>>8631153

[Anonymous No.8631221]

I was surprised to find out that Link's Awakening had a lot of key Zelda people involved. It feels like something made by a different team.

[Anonymous No.8631248]

>>8631174
not really, I knew there was a secret in that room so it was only a matter of time I realized what I had to do.

[Anonymous No.8631256]

Oh neat I just played through Ages then Seasons again
These games really don't hold up the way Links Awakening or even Minish Cap does
I feel like I have to be constantly tanking damage because of the way the weird hitboxes work on everything and the gacha nature of the rings is a lot less fun than I remember.

The dungeon design is not so good either, a lot of dungeons force you to resolve puzzles multiple times and backtrack again and again. The annoying turn wheels are the worst offenders of this, because you HAVE to back track to solve them, and they're a central feature of like four different dungeons.
and then a lot of the mini games are way more frustrating than they are fun. Like the way the seed shooter works, you can only have one seed flying through the air so if you miss a single target in the minecart minigame, you basically have to ride the cart all the way back like a cuck before attempting again

Lots of little things like that hold the game back imo, they're still decent but they just don't measure up to LA or LTTP in my mind.

[Anonymous No.8631258]

>>8631153
Sorry you couldn't read m8.

[Anonymous No.8631278]

Bunny, Bat, Boner

[Anonymous No.8631304]

>>8631278
Bear, Beets, Battlestar Galactica.

[Anonymous No.8631315]

>>8631153
>mfw I finished the game without knowing english and no guide
"IT'S POOR GAME DESIGN I SWEAR GUYS"

[Anonymous No.8631327]

>>8631153
they needed something to filter the 6 year olds

[Anonymous No.8631340]

>>8631174
Not even, you would have to be retarded for real to not figure it out.

>>8631256
Huh, I love Link's Awakening, but playing Ages for the first time last year, I thought it was even better.

>>8631315
Right? Aside from the game telling you, you're just bound to figure it by just blind experimentation.

[Anonymous No.8631348]

>>8631340
>Huh, I love Link's Awakening, but playing Ages for the first time last year, I thought it was even better.
If think if they hadn't tried to make what's essentially one giant game with 16 dungeons, it wouldve easily surpassed Link's Awakening
But as it stands the really good ideas are spread way too far apart for me.
That's just my opinion though.

[Anonymous No.8631471]

>>8631161
Only a problem if you're stupider than an average 4th grader. Now for some reason I want to look up and see if DSP played this at some point.

[Anonymous No.8631593]

>>8631161
The manual didn't say anything about who the monsters were.

[Anonymous No.8631598]

[Anonymous No.8631605]

>>8631598
Xen is overhated to be honest. Only the Grunt factory area is shit.

[Anonymous No.8631608]

>>8631605
Agree.

[Anonymous No.8631634]

>>8631153
I didn't know what a pols voice was until about 10 years ago.
I'm pretty sure there's something on the map about this when you have the compass, i guess i just kept trying everything until i got through.
Not really bad game design, barely a puzzle. There's 3 enemies you have to kill in order.
What did give me some shit was the very start, sprinkling magic dust on that beaver or whatever it was. That was a shit puzzle.

[Anonymous No.8631660]

>>8631256
>These games really don't hold up the way Links Awakening or even Minish Cap does
Awakening is inferior to both seasons games. Never played minished cap and don't care about iy

[Anonymous No.8631674]

>>8631153
Filtered

[Anonymous No.8631680]

>>8631605
correct

[Anonymous No.8631710]

>>8631186
lol OP is a huge retard

[Anonymous No.8631853]

>>8631186
Even if you don't know which enemy is which there are only a total of 6 combinations to try.
OP is retarded.

[Anonymous No.8631874]

>>8631256
>oracle series doesn't hold up to minish cap
fucking hell what a take

[Anonymous No.8631971]

>>8631256
No idea what you're on about with hitboxes, and the rings (while annoying to acquire) are basically irrelevant to the core game design and are just a fun extra thing.
What you said about the dungeon design is why the games are so good, they are actually complex. "Backtracking" is a core element of good map design.

[Anonymous No.8631997]

A lot of Link's Awakening's puzzles are cryptic bullshit.
How the fuck was I suppose to know I had to throw a pot at the crow to get the leaf when they'd normally attack when you got close to them?

How the fuck was I suppose to know I had to use a bomb to get the knights out of the wall?

How the fuck was I suppose to know I had to dive in a specific spot to get into the Water Dungeon?

How the fuck was I suppose to know I had to throw pots/statues at doors to open them?

How the fuck was I suppose to know how the Horse chess pieces worked?

How the fuck was I suppose to know you needed to read a book to get through the Wind Fish's Egg maze?

[Anonymous No.8632002]

>>8631997
Because the game literally tells you everything through the owl

[Anonymous No.8632020]

>>8631853
Only the Pols Voice is imprisoned, so it's just 2 combinations to try.

[Anonymous No.8632579]

>>8631997
>when they'd normally attack when you got close to them
There's your answer.
>I had to use a bomb to get the knights out of the wall
Because the game is constantly teaching you to bomb specific points on walls.
>I had to dive in a specific spot to get into the Water Dungeon
Because you've already had to swim in spots to e.g. enter underwater sidescrolling segments, which the game has indicated
>I had to throw pots/statues at doors to open them
Because they wouldn't open any other way and there's also a pot in that room
>I suppose to know how the Horse chess pieces worked
Common sense; if you throw them and they don't land correctly, the give makes an incorrect buzzer noise
>you needed to read a book to get through the Wind Fish's Egg maze
I'm pretty sure the Owl tells you this

tl;dr these games are about explosion, and the puzzles require some level of either common sense, trial and error, and/or intuition. It wouldn't be very fun if the game told you exactly what you need to do in every instance down to the button press

[Anonymous No.8632718]

>>8631153
dum dum OP

[Anonymous No.8632772]

>dude, just hump every square inch of the wall

[Anonymous No.8632879]

>"The pin number this month is
‘T’. Last month it was ‘X’
and before that it was ‘Z’.
But what are they going to
do next month? That's all they
can express with 4 numbers.
>Anyway does the door to the
Patient Wing really need to have
its combination changed this
often?"

[Anonymous No.8632917]

>>8632772
It was a simpler time

[Anonymous No.8633004]

>>8632772
>people nowadays hate this mechanic
>at the time, it was lauded as an groundbreaking interactivity that gave insight into the lived experience of the blind

[Anonymous No.8633134]

LoZ, LttP, LA, and Oracles are all shit games because they were literally designed to sell guides
Fortunately they knocked that shit off and the series finally got worth playing

[Anonymous No.8633165]

>>8633134
peak wind waker fan faggotry

[Anonymous No.8633185]

>>8631256
>I feel like I have to be constantly tanking damage because of the way the weird hitboxes work on everything
I feel like you're talking about something very specific because the Oracle games are almost 1:1 the same as LA gameplay wise.

[Anonymous No.8633481]

>>8631153
Reusing the same bait for the same thread once again? Based.

[Anonymous No.8633483]

>>8633165
This. Hard to find a cringier post than that faggot's.

[Anonymous No.8634005]

>>8631997
It's the property of "try something because it's possible". It's not like you had to do a really specific activity in a really specific, non-obvious timing in one of a thousand locations. Just a limited set of actions that are possibly valid for you to try.

Just be glad I didn't immediately dismiss you with
>frogposter talks about being retarded
and gave you a fair answer first.

[Anonymous No.8634025]

[Anonymous No.8634108]

>>8631221
Really? The whole thing feels like a streamlines ALTTP. Very much peak Nintendo handheld design of the time.

[Anonymous No.8634120]

>>8631634
>beaver or whatever it was
He was a tanuki

[Anonymous No.8634140]

>>8634025
>Teaches the player that they're not strong from the start and needs to deserve it
Best game ever.

[Anonymous No.8634384]

Yes, yes. We get it; playing LA in color completely renders the game unplayable because tile density of something.

[Anonymous No.8634519]

>>8631153
Process of elimination. You must hate RPGs.

[Anonymous No.8634592]

>>8631153
There aren't enough people in this thread calling you a fucking retard so here's another (you).

[Anonymous No.8634704]

>>8632772
Wolfenstein 3D is fairly simplistic, so after Carmack relented and added pushwalls (he didn't wanna do it at first because he didn't like how the first attempts looked), Romero and Hall went and shoved lots of secrets into levels, maybe a bit too many.
The game remains pretty simplistic, but mind that you basically don't need to look for secret pushwalls anyway, and that the average player probably just bumped the occasional wall which they figured "That one looks like it might hide something."

It adds a little bit more depth to the game, and it would have been worse without it.
I think something which would have improved Wolfenstein 3D would have been a map (not necessarily a Doom style automap), because levels can be confusing to navigate at times, as well as a little bit more weapon variety, like a common enemy which fires visible projectiles which can be seen coming and dodged (enemy hitscans can be dodged, but not as easily), as well as a comparable weapon for the player, maybe a flamethrower or something.
Some of the ports of Wolfenstein 3D added some of that stuff.

>>8631971
>"Backtracking" is a core element of good map design.
I would say backtracking done well, because there are ways to do it which isn't fun. I would certainly not describe the dungeons in the Oracle games as being bad on that part though, I thought the dungeons were very good.

[Anonymous No.8635179]

>>8631153
>tons of cntrl + v for enemies down monotonous hallways and the same green/blue hallway between every area (maybe this was due to hardware loading?)
>you can carry a bunch of useless shit but have to rely mostly on random pick-ups for your throwing weapons apart from a few obscure rooms that have them all--why can't I select my throwable weapon like my melee weapon?
>Another dumb thing from the old Castelvania's--huge amount of knockback from shit like a tiny bone getting thrown at you. Annoying. Not necessary to punish me that much since I'm not playing a platformer.
>can tank pretty much every single boss on your first attempt
>have to cycle through every single warp point to get to your desired one since you can't just get a map display and pick
>music completely stops when you hit start which you have to do fairly often
>because bosses are trivial, there's hardly a point in fighting any of the monsters in the inverted castle so you end up just slowly floating past everything--seriously, bosses are so easy that there's 0 punishment for this
>vast majority of swords and items you get are dogshit/worthless since there's only a handful of decent ones that render the rest moot
>I think the inverted castle just looks stupid

Still enjoyed it, but it's pretty clunky and very much a product of its time that paved the way for better games. Super Metroid aged better.

[Anonymous No.8635216]

>>8635179
lol no

[Anonymous No.8635225]

>>8635216
'fraid so

[Anonymous No.8635354]

>>8634384
What?

[Anonymous No.8635361]

>>8635225
Just like your opinion man and I don't give a fuck

[Anonymous No.8635387]

>>8631971
>"Backtracking" is a core element of good map design.
I wish you put this asinine take first so that, knowing you were a simple mind, I would know right away not to read the rest of your post.

[Anonymous No.8635537]

>>8635179
>tons of cntrl + v for enemies down monotonous hallways and the same green/blue hallway between every area (maybe this was due to hardware loading?)
There's some slapdash design here and there. The corridors between areas is indeed because of loading, the game has to load the assets for the new area in

>you can carry a bunch of useless shit but have to rely mostly on random pick-ups for your throwing weapons apart from a few obscure rooms that have them all--why can't I select my throwable weapon like my melee weapon?
Do you mean the consumable throwing weapons or the sub weapons? Because I never really relied on the throwable bombs or shurikens much, as they drop infrequently outside of luck mode.

>huge amount of knockback from shit like a tiny bone getting thrown at you. Annoying. Not necessary to punish me that much since I'm not playing a platformer.
Kind of agree, they could have toned it down some for attacks which wouldn't actually send your body flying.

>can tank pretty much every single boss on your first attempt
Mostly. Galamoth can be a cunt though.

>have to cycle through every single warp point to get to your desired one since you can't just get a map display and pick
Agree.

>music completely stops when you hit start which you have to do fairly often
It resumes though.

>because bosses are trivial, there's hardly a point in fighting any of the monsters in the inverted castle so you end up just slowly floating past everything--seriously, bosses are so easy that there's 0 punishment for this
The inverted castle is definitely underdeveloped, I have a strong feeling the idea of it came late in the game's development, or at least that they started work on it late, and didn't really finish it, and also that the concept wasn't thought through much.

>vast majority of swords and items you get are worthless since there's only a handful of decent ones that render the rest moot
Kinda true. I still like the game, in spite of its flaws.

[Anonymous No.8635601]

How did Queen Ambi travel 1000 years into the future to reunite with the Cap'n in Oracle of Seasons?

[Anonymous No.8635641]

>>8635354
Whenever there's a Link's Awakening thread, there's a brigade of autists that come out of the woodwork with spreadsheets and diagrams claiming that, because they changed the grass and dirt tiles in parts of the overworld, Link Awakening DX is completely unplayable and ruins the game in its entirety.

[Anonymous No.8635651]

>>8635641
it's literally just one guy and op was referring to the enemy puzzle in level 2 not that

[Anonymous No.8635652]

>>8635601
I'm pretty sure that if you talk to her at the desert's entrance she says Nayru sent her.
Bigger mystery is how did Rosa end up on Crescent Island in the past in Ages.

[Anonymous No.8635687]

>>8635652
she used her magic key to unlock the past of course

[Anonymous No.8635691]

>>8635641
that's stupid, the only legit criticism of DX is that the color temple rewards make the game way too easy

[Anonymous No.8635705]

>>8634384
>>8635641
Tilting at dragons, schizo. Take your meds

[Anonymous No.8635718]

>>8634704

>The game remains pretty simplistic, but mind that you basically don't need to look for secret pushwalls anyway, and that the average player probably just bumped the occasional wall which they figured "That one looks like it might hide something."

Not true, there are several locations in the game that you need to find secrets to access keys. It's straight up bad design.

[Anonymous No.8635725]

>>8631997
>chess pieces
Is there a way to deliberately manipulate them or something? I just kept throwing them until they landed right.

[Anonymous No.8635739]

>>8634120
It's an owl

[Anonymous No.8635814]

>>8635718
There's one pushwall in the beginning of E2 which you must open to progress, but it's telegraphed really hard, so I don't think that one counts.

I think in the Nocturnal Missions expansion there's a few times where they pull some bullshit, like hide a key behind a pushwall, with basically no telegraphing. I will say that's not really acceptable, but it's also, again, an expansion, and the original three episodes (which I think constitutes the best part of Wolfenstein 3D) don't do that stuff.

[Anonymous No.8635994]

>>8631997
How the fuck are you even alive? Do you need to be told how to chew your own food too?

[Anonymous No.8637010]

>>8635739
Sure

[Anonymous No.8637016]

>>8631174
Boo hoo

[Anonymous No.8637060]

>>8631174
I'm all three and I beat it just fine with no walkthrough.

[Anonymous No.8638929]

>>8637060
Man, OP really is fucking retarded and has no excuse.

[Anonymous No.8638949]

>>8631256
Agreed, and the underworld in seasons looks like/is garbage

[Anonymous No.8639309]

[Anonymous No.8639437]

>>8639309
Not retro

[Anonymous No.8639491]

>>8631997
>How the fuck was I suppose to know you needed to read a book to get through the Wind Fish's Egg maze?
Wait, really? I just brute forced it. Is the book in the tutorial library?

[Anonymous No.8639569]

>>8635691
And the new owl statues, like the one in Turtle Rock that says that you need to shoot at things that look suspicious and is placed right next to the statue you need to shoot.

[Anonymous No.8639732]

>>8639491
Yes. You need to complete the trading quest to get a magnifying glass that allows you to read a book with the answer to the maze.

[Anonymous No.8639808]

>>8635179
>games age
Try reddit

[Anonymous No.8640362]

>>8631153
yeah well i did not push the fish sculpture for long enough to move it up and had to phone the nintendo hotline to be told what to do.
but i figured OPs room out, after some backtracking.
I finished the whole game so if a tard like me can do it, it cant be bad design.

[Anonymous No.8642209]

>>8639569
The owl statues are just the same as the stone slabs in the original

[Anonymous No.8642217]

>>8631997
dumb frogposter

[Anonymous No.8642247]

>>8632002
Not to mention the phone booths if you're feeling extra retarded.

[Anonymous No.8642254]

>>8631348
wait so a game where you control the seasons and travelled back in time? could be interesting

[Anonymous No.8642325]

It's inexcusable no matter how much people pretend otherwise.

[Anonymous No.8643615]

These "puzzles" are unfun bullshit that generally just rely off trial and error and mashing buttons until a door opens. There were a couple in Blood that were especially bullshit.


>>8633004
fuckin kek

[Anonymous No.8643965]

>>8631634
>What did give me some shit was the very start, sprinkling magic dust on that beaver or whatever it was. That was a shit puzzle.

Yeah, I couldn't figure that out either when I played it for the first time as a kid. The game tells you that the worm key is in the forest so I thought maybe it's buried there somewhere and I was digging in every spot in the forest lmao.

[Anonymous No.8643978]

>>8631634
>>8643965
The dude outright tells you he has a very sensitive nose. Now, I wonder what could make a sensitive nose go off?

[Anonymous No.8643994]

>>8631153
Dang, I was filtered by this part when I was a kid. Despite it, I would "progress" through the game with the screen teleport glitch.
Finally beat the game when I was in highschool.

>figured out that all underground/dungeon maps were connected by using the screen teleport glitch
Very cool

[Anonymous No.8644395]

>>8642325
>>8643615
Sorry, but you're a brainlet. Did your mother drop you?!

[Anonymous No.8644671]

[Anonymous No.8644809]

>>8644671
Fucking a. At least the walls stay gone if you die.

[Anonymous No.8644846]

>>8632879
Damn. This puzzle filtered me really hard as well. I remember I had to look up the answer after trying for about an hour. But the answer in the end is really obvious.

[Anonymous No.8644908]

>>8644846
The puzzles in those games are often like that. I actually had to use a walkthrough to get past the Zodiac puzzle in SH1, and felt like such a stupid piece of shit right afterward. It's so obvious the puzzle has nothing to do with the Zodiac per se.
This one pissed me off twice though, once because I didn't think it was "this month" anymore, and the goal of the puzzle was to figure out what the next letter was. That was definitely my fault for making that assumption.
The second was that the order you have to enter the keys is ambiguous; you can reach the right solution but not enter it correctly and think you have the solution wrong.

[Anonymous No.8645232]

>>8632879
7193? never played this game but that seems like the answer

[Anonymous No.8645258]

>>8645232
Seems reasonable enough, doesn't it? No, that's not the correct answer. Sick fucks.

[Anonymous No.8645268]

>>8631874
Minish cap really shits the bed when you get to the sky level, but before and after that it's an excellent game. That said, it's the zelda I revisit the least.

[Anonymous No.8645313]

>>8643994
Is there a brainlet friendly explanation as to why it's so easy to zoop to that seventh dungeon screen with the L shaped platform and the level 2 bracelet? I'd end up there constantly.

[Anonymous No.8645342]

>>8645313
I tried searching for a guide on how the teleport glitch works in caves and dungeons.
I didn't look too hard so I didn't find anything. I'm sure there's something out there that explains how underground rooms are connected in memory.

[Anonymous No.8645471]

>>8631997
>How the fuck was I suppose to know how the Horse chess pieces worked?
By not being a retard? You stand in an L shape from the target and throw them like a Knight would move in Chess

[Anonymous No.8645602]

>talk to every single npc before you can proceed every time you reach a new town

[Anonymous No.8646176]

>>8642325
Sonic 3 is absolutely overflowing with bad design choices, so much that it honestly kind of baffles me that everyone singles out the Carnival Night barrels. Like.... really? You thought THAT was the worst part?

[Anonymous No.8646734]

>>8642209
Not true, there are extra owl statues in the DX version.

[Anonymous No.8646746]

>>8631258
Poor op ain't gonna be able to read that either

[Anonymous No.8646751]

>>8631997
Wow you are really retarded

[Anonymous No.8646757]

>>8631186
This. It literally tells you what to do. But OPs parents must have dropped him a lot as a baby.

[Anonymous No.8646762]

>>8631161
I completed this game when I was 8 years old, with no manual and no internet. I mostly played it at school, and I just figured shit out.

I remember this dungeon being complicated and getting lost a lot, but I don’t remember this puzzle. Is this the one where one of the enemies has a key but you have to kill them in the right order or something? It’s been so long.

[Anonymous No.8646767]

>>8631186
Mate, this isn’t even trial and error. Even if you don’t know what a Pol’s Voice is, only one of the enemies is “imprisoned”

[Anonymous No.8646778]

>>8631634
I don’t remember how I figured this one out as a kid. I either sprinkled magic dust on everything and just got lucky, or a friend told me.

That raccoon freaked me out though, when he laughs and says “You’re gonna be lost forever now because of me” and then the level loops back around? That shit was creepy. I thought he could alter reality or something.

[Anonymous No.8646782]

>>8646778
I didn’t realize until I was older that he’s just a dude on magic mushrooms who thinks he’s a raccoon and he probably just gave you wrong directions lmao

[Anonymous No.8646794]

>>8633134
>LoZ, LttP, LA, and Oracles are all shit games because they were literally designed to sell guides
Are you dumb?

[Anonymous No.8646802]

>>8646176
b8. You can't name a single other design flaw in S3.

[Anonymous No.8646815]

>>8631153
>fe7 battle before dawn
>ursula
>almost guaranteed one-hit-ko nuke out of fog of war with no indication of her range in a game with permadeath
this was bullshit and i'm not sure what they were thinking when they were designing it
it's not like there's a "clairvoyance" type skill in fe7 that gives you vision of the map so you can check out her range
and then in hard mode the bitch starts fucking moving
absolutely crap design and a serious flaw in an otherwise fantastic game

[Anonymous No.8647861]

>>8631593
If I remember there is a hint in the dungeon with the tablet, it gives you the order but not the room but you can deduce it because when you are cleaning theatre room with the wrong order you receive an error sound.

I was able to find it as a 6-7 old kid so I think a neckbeard is supposed to be able to do it as well.

[Anonymous No.8648390]

>>8643615
I always assumed those stupid things were some kind of stalling tactic to prevent you from just blazing past some combat encounters. It's not like there's ever any kind of logic or thought behind them (outside of the combination being provided elsewhere in the level, though usually it was not), you just flick them randomly until it goes beep.

[Anonymous No.8649678]

Let's play a Sierra On-line adventure game!
>Put disk in computer
>You don't have a disk
>Take disk
>You placed the disk of King's Quest III in your pocket.
>Put disk in computer
>How would you do that?
>Slide disk in computer
>How would you do that?
>Place disk in computer
>How would you do that?
>Slide disk in computer
>How would you do that?
...
>Put disk in drive
>You insert the disk inside the computer's drive. After a few seconds of rattling sound, an electric shockwave burst from the machine. Shrapnel flies all over the room as it fills with a heavy cloud of smoke. A sharp piece of metal finds its way to your neck. In a panic, you fell off the cliff to your untimely demise.
>Hi, I'm the Roberta Williams. Thanks for buying my game. Try not being so clumsy next time!
...
Alright, let's play something else.

[Anonymous No.8649893]

>>8644846
Yeah the clue is misleading and when I tried the correct letter I didn't do it the right way. I don't know if I'd call it bad game design but it is a little obtuse

[Anonymous No.8650240]

>>8649678
Kek
Good homage

[Anonymous No.8651459]

>>8649678
>*laughs in LucasArts*