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/vr/ - Retro Games


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8592963 No.8592963 [Reply] [Original]

A thread dedicated to discussing the Thief series both OMs and FMs as well as LGS in general.

>> No.8592992
File: 2.00 MB, 1920x1080, calendra's cistern.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8592992

>> No.8593012
File: 1.81 MB, 1920x1080, death's cold embrace.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8593012

>> No.8593060
File: 1.90 MB, 1920x1080, behind closed doors.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8593060

>> No.8593145
File: 130 KB, 300x400, 1600455520344.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8593145

>>8551991
>They stopped seeding the FM collection

>> No.8593181

>>8593145
Sorry anon, I just use thiefmissions/thiefguild and delete FMs when I want to save space.

>> No.8593216

>>8593012
>>8593060
are you baiting me with these filenames? successfully, if so. (You)

>> No.8593226

Should I download the Steam or GOG version?

>> No.8593228

>>8593226
I think they are the same but GOG has TFix Lite pre-installed

>> No.8593235

>>8593216
No_

>> No.8593251

>>8593226
Doesn't matter.

>> No.8594043
File: 2.03 MB, 1920x1080, Calendra's Legacy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8594043

>> No.8594437
File: 13 KB, 250x188, Murus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8594437

>>8592963
I will tell them this: nothing has changed. All is as it was written. The boredom is dead. Beware the dawn... of the Thief Daily Thread Age.

You're making me proud, guys (OP from the last 2 threads here)

>> No.8594724

>>8594437
Murus is so based, I'll always love how the Hammers ended up being correct and based, I was fully expecting them to be and evil religion when I first played as a kid

>> No.8595301

>>8592963
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151620&p=2482574#post2482574
Why didn't you post the contest thread?

>> No.8595314

>>8595301
Because I forgot about it even though I posted it in the last thread. Considering the deadline for the contest is next September too, there's not going to be consistent threads before the contest ends.

>> No.8595390

>>8594724
They weren't correct and based, they were an enemy of an enemy. They were still religious fanatics whose prison facility had a roughly 50% survival rate.

>> No.8595443

>>8595390
I liked the presentation of the hammers as well as the pagans in T1. classic struggle between man/civilization and nature. unlike many other fantasy settings LGS managed to stay clear of metaphysical notions of good and evil. while the trickster is the obvious antagonist of the game, he's not presented in the same black and white manner as karras in the sequel.

in many ways, T2 disneyfied the factions by turning pagans into noble savages and mechanists into unsalvageable moustache twirling villains with no other goal than destroying humanity

>> No.8595465

>>8593145
I see additional seeder alongside me, that makes two of us, and couple of hiccups aside, my machine is working 24/7 too. I do agree, however, that it could be much better, i just don't know how. Unimpressive speed and new connections don't come up right away.

>> No.8595475

>>8595465
That was me. I finally got to 100% after being stuck at 62% for days. I just assumed anons gave up.

>> No.8595531
File: 166 KB, 554x860, tumblr_p061ehaNJR1wrg86ro5_r1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8595531

Build thyself today a good house.

>> No.8595535
File: 379 KB, 500x719, o5el43doy91sh6kpwo1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8595535

>> No.8595805

>remaking a beloved classic OM with a fresh new take
vs
>remaking an objectively awful OM and making it actually enjoyable

pick your poison

>> No.8595809

>>8595805
I want to see Thieves guild but not shit. It's such a cool concept but LGS dropped the ball hard.

>> No.8595810

>>8595805
I like all the OMs so this is a loaded question.

>> No.8595817

>>8595809
It's probably the most polished Gold mission.

>> No.8595842

>>8595809
well, well, I'm doing just that.

Maybe you have complaints about the OM that I haven't noticed?

>> No.8595859

>>8595842
not that anon, but I'll list some of mine:
>ugly uninspired architecture
>mansions fail to look lived-in
>sloppily placed objects (e.g. furniture facing into walls or floating in the air)
it's been a while since I played it, but iirc it also has pretty awful progression/flow. I never got stuck in it, but I remember having to backtrack a lot

>> No.8595876

>>8595842
Doesn't feel like an underground thief operations. Just like a generic sewer level. The only real cool part I remember in the sewers was that outpost with the wood planks over the metal graders with thieves standing guard. Maybe if it dipped in and out of basements of established bulidings that could add to it. Or going in the opposite direction and making some underground thief city complete with buildings similar to the lost city.

>> No.8595883

>>8595859
Here are mine
>Empty rooms, I really do mean empty, threre's absoloutely nothing in them
>A huge chunk of rooms are stone/wooden floored and completely lit with no shadows
>Awful, anti-ghosting placements of servants
>Barely any alternate ways to get around
I'm not sure how I will fix your complaints, but mine should be easy
I also had a problem with the main objective taking too long, should I put the vase in Rueben's safe on Normal?

>> No.8595889

>>8593012
I never see Death's Cold Embrace discussed in Thief threads. It is one of the most atmospheric and soulful community content of any game I've played.

>> No.8595890

>>8595876
I have this idea to separate the Thieve's Guild from the sewer by putting the sewer bellow it, across the guild the player would find control stations for the sewers which opens a way through and closes another.

>> No.8595938

>>8595889
I mostly see whining about the hub area and returning layouts (even though they're very well done in my opinion).

>> No.8595946

what's the deal with the skeleton in cragscleft? does it have a model name?

>> No.8595953

>>8595946
it's made up of multiple objects

>> No.8595962
File: 2.19 MB, 1920x1080, dump005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8595962

I would have gone with Subaru F. Ferrari to be honest.

>> No.8596053

>>8595890
That could work but I think the idea of putting the guild beneath the sewer is way cooler. It gives off a strong secret hidden world vibe.

>> No.8596057

>>8595889
It is very atmospheric but apart from the first mission, the mansion and the Hammer church, it's not very interesting. The story is also dogshit. I know, it's not supposed to be grand or anything but the whole campaign revolves around it and it's just awful.

>> No.8596118

>>8595962
Calendra's Cistern/Legacy has a ton of really amazing writing/lore (Arkhyn's Tomb for example is one of the very best written dungeons in FMs, no contest) but it is also full of downright stupid cringe shit like that or stuff Lara Croft at the museum in Murkbell. It's completely schizo.

>> No.8596129

>>8596118
I haven't been impressed with any of the story stuff but Purah knows his mapping.

>> No.8596161

>>8596053
I had considered this but...
What if the sewage poured in?

>> No.8596173

>>8596129
Most of the lore is great, the plot itself is ok but gets worse as it goes. Calendra's Cistern probably has the strongest story.

>> No.8596310
File: 435 KB, 1928x1372, T2 Mechanist Turned Into Servant Art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8596310

>>8595443
I disagree with the last part of your post. The Mechanists were not irredemable genocidal villains at all, and if you pay closer attention to details throughout the campaign, you'll notice the game never actually presents them as such, nor does it "disneyfies" them at any point.

The Mechanists did believe that organic life was inferior and what not. However, none of them knew about Karras' genocidal plan, and they certainly weren't on board with it. He was the one who wanted to destroy all life in the City, not them. Many aspects of the game make it very clear that Karras was just using them to further his own secret agenda... from how he forcibly turned some of his own followers into Masked Servants in the final mission, or how his plans of releasing the Necrotic Gas would have killed every Mechanist in the City, or how the Masked Servants didnt have the gas mechanism implemented until he was two steps away from his plan, or how the Cathedral only had robots and Servants in it, or the many readables and pieces of dialogue that suggest the Mechanists believed their true purpose was to bring progress and cool robotbros to the City, while being oblivious as to what Karras was planning all along.

So, to claim the Mechanists as a whole were simple moustache-twirling villains bent on killing everyone, or that the game shows them like that, well its just wrong and reductive. They were just pawns in Karras' hidden game, not anti-humanity psycopaths. And I'd even say it's not simply a "good and evil" narrative either, unless you solely focus on Karras as the antagonist, since the Mechanists as a whole do represent an evolution of order and civilization, just like the Hammers did in T1. Their leader being a genocidal autistic madman with ulterior motives does not take that away in the slightest...

Post got too long but hopefully you get what I mean....

>> No.8596317

>>8593012
What is this from? Looks kind of like deus ex?

>> No.8596335

>>8596161
Just have grates or something to cause it to seep further down or have a sewer lake like in Futurama but way tamer. I don't think it's worth sacrificing a huge scaled idea like that over some small thing no one will think about.

>> No.8596442
File: 44 KB, 500x500, Hello there Taffer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8596442

>>8593012
Hey, I think I remember this image being posted before on one of these threads. It was a while back though, If I'm not mistaken it's from an unfinished FM that was never released to the public, only images of it exist. Remember to play Waterfront Racket if you're looking for a more modern Thief interpretation in an FM tho

>> No.8596449

The real question here is: how did the average Mechanist justify Karras' naked golden little boys?

>> No.8596485

>>8596442
It's from Death's Cold Embrace.

>> No.8596686

>>8595390
>They weren't correct and based
t. Pagan or criminal so shit he got caught

>> No.8596691
File: 3.03 MB, 963x1564, t1 guard meshes comparison tfix vs og.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8596691

When playing Thief 1, do you prefer to play with the older NPC models, or do you go with the newer models instead? I always played with the newer, higher polygon NPC models from T2, because I honestly could never stand the uglier, older ones at all.

Also, lately I've been reading how TFix Full has lots of undocumented changes that actively detract from the game, such as
>adding colored lightning that fucks up the game's artstyle
>adding unnecessary fences that ruin one mission in particular
>ruining the balance by adding the guard AI from T2
So what's the best approach for reinstalling T1? I always played with TFix Full but wanna try going purist this time around, however it seems even Tfix Lite has undocumented shit too, and TFix Full comes with fixed scripts for older FMs which could be pretty useful by itself. Would having 2 installations (one w/ TFix Full for playing FMs and one with maybe TFix Lite for the base game) be a sensible thing or would that be overkill?

>> No.8596697

>>8596691
The latter are just shitty hackjobs of Thief 2 models that will later break fan missions for you in various ways. Just use Tfix Lite, voodoo47 is a complete retard.

>> No.8596708

Karras aside, the mechanists were a benefit to the city in that they created a massive thrust of industrialization and social reforms.

>> No.8596737

>>8596697
Also Tfix Lite still comes with the .DML files that add colored lighting to the game. You can scan through them in notepad and comment out the sections you don't like.

>> No.8596745

>>8596691
The top models look better and aren't even the low detail mode ones that are used in cutscenes.

>> No.8596756

>>8596691
>adding unnecessary fences that ruin one mission in particular
you're talking about the keeper hideout in The Haunted Cathedral, right?

it's a miniscule change with a near non existant impact on the gameplay, but that just makes it more insulting. the author takes an iconic game, makes his own arbitrary "improvements" to the level design, then presents it as the definite way of experiencing the game.

iirc the reason for adding the fence was that newmantle made it possible to mantle past a locked door, breaking the mission according to the author. what he doesn't consider is that the room already had a wooden ceiling, allowing the player rope himself past the door

>> No.8596765

>>8596691
I prefer the old models but I don't mind the hipoly ones.

TFix's biggest sin is that it comes with a .dml that injects changes into the game's gamesys file (global systems file) that also override custom gamesys used by 99% of FMs out there. A concrete example is being unable to mantle some objects with TFix but not with TFix Lite despite the FM author flagging these objects as mantleable (like in Rose Garden). The worst thing? People discovered this by accident, voodoo47 never once mentioned this and it potentially breaks a lot of stuff.

>> No.8596769

>>8596756
>iirc the reason for adding the fence was that newmantle made it possible to mantle past a locked door, breaking the mission according to the author. what he doesn't consider is that the room already had a wooden ceiling, allowing the player rope himself past the door
It's even stupider than that, you can mantle that wall even without newmantle.

>> No.8596865

>>8596691
>>8596697
>>8596765
>>8596769
I know TFix is completely fucked but is TFix Lite fine for the base game and FMs? I tried to update the game to NewDark myself but I couldn't figure it out.

>> No.8596939

>>8596865
TFix Lite IS updating the game to NewDark.

>> No.8596942

>>8596939
As in, it won't fuck with the maps (aside from minor .dml edits).

>> No.8596997
File: 119 KB, 924x1000, trickster.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8596997

>>8596697
>T2 models that will break FMs
Thats good info to know Ive played quite a few FMs but they were all on T2, I had no idea the newer models could interfere with T1 FMs. Won't be keeping the newer models on my next install thats for sure, even if I do think the old ones are ugly (especially the og zombie model... just yikes).
>voodoo47 is a complete retard.
Yeah, I kinda noticed it when reading through the TTLG forum. Guy clearly has an overinflated ego and he wont concede even when hes blatantly wrong

>>8596737
>You can scan through them in notepad and comment out the sections you don't like.
How exactly do you remove the colored lightning from TFix Lite? I grabbed the gamesys.dml from the TFix Lite package, opened it on notepad but I have no idea what lines to edit and such, I even opened the .dml's for each mission but theres nothing about colored lightning in them. Maybe its just me being retarded but Im completely lost here...

>captcha: RMRRR

>> No.8597000

>>8596997
>Yeah, I kinda noticed it when reading through the TTLG forum. Guy clearly has an overinflated ego and he wont concede even when hes blatantly wrong
Have some links to those forum posts? I'd be interested in reading those interactions.

>> No.8597006

>>8596997
Nah, it's only on specific maps like cragscleft and for things like the alarm lights. If you want to remove them, you'd have to scan the mission dml files.

>> No.8597014

>>8596697
I've only played Tfix and haven't ever played Thief 2. Could you note the differences between NPC's in Tfix vs Tfix lite? I'm curious as to what I've been missing out on.

>> No.8597026

>>8597014
I'm too lazy to go into specifics, just know that the enhancement pack models can break FMs and lead to backwards torches, floating plates, broken texture swaps for original meshes, and other differences from the originals, and Tfix can also break FMs by changing properties of objects so that objects that were originally mantleable were changed to not allow it, regardless of the mapper's intentions.

>> No.8597028

>>8597026
Also note that T2Fix is maintained by someone else and not what people complain about.

>> No.8597031
File: 87 KB, 800x797, Thief_48868d_6122929.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8597031

>>8597000
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134733&page=104&p=2390493&viewfull=1#post2390493

Here's a moment that sticks out in particular. Scroll down to Skacky's first comment, he calls out voodoo47 for adding an unnecessary fence on a challenge in the Haunted Cathedral mission (which me and another anon previously mentioned above). He also briefly calls him out for adding those unnecessary red alarm lights in the prison level. It's like 5 pages of heated discussion about it, voodoo is obviously on the wrong but he's a hardass and his ego won't let him admit it, it's just interesting stuff to see.

>> No.8597051
File: 16 KB, 440x459, SADrrett.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8597051

https://fakeyou.com/tts/TM:9pg5gxgkzz96
reminder that someone trained tacocat to make Garrett's voice. you ARE planning to use it to make your own briefing video for the new FM contest, right anon?

>> No.8597054

>>8597031
Thanks!

>> No.8597065

>>8597026
Yeah, I understood those complaints. I'm more interested in understanding if and how the mechanics of the NPC's were tampered with in Tfix. Outside of their physical appearances, do the NPC's in Tfix react differently and / or take different routes than they do in Tfix lite?

>> No.8597070

>>8597051
It's disconcerting that I can recognize people that may or may not post in the same chat channels as me.

>> No.8597142

>>8597051
Sounds kinda jank like he didn't have enough data. He shoulda used lines from Corvo to since it's the same VA and basically the same voice. Also doesn't seem like he used Thief 3 lines since he only mentions Thief 1 & 2

>> No.8597501
File: 44 KB, 157x157, munke.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8597501

>>8595443
I have to agree with the other anon who replied to your post, the Mechanists were fed the ideology of "the gear knows not why the wheel turns it" specifically to discourage them asking questions.
To be honest while I liked the plot and missions in the first one more, I think Karras is a much better character than the Trickster, even if he is just that world's equivalent of a school shooter. I'll never not be entertained by him playing praises of himself recorded by himself on the robots he built.

>> No.8597503

>>8597031
>that pic
Any good hammerite/mechanist rivalry FMs?

>> No.8597510

>>8595842
This one you've probably seen a million times but it's still worth bringing up: way too much linearity, there are some shortcuts in there but typically you can open them up right at the end and they're not very helpful. Basically the mission forces you to backtrack at least once, more times if you forget something in either mansion. And like >>8595883 mentioned, a lot of these rooms you'll revisit are very brightly lit with little shadow, making the sewer the most brightly lit place in all of the City.

>> No.8597760
File: 754 KB, 885x885, 1643468740037.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8597760

Is there a tutorial for making NPCs in certain areas only react to certain stimuli? Like the hammers in Undercover or the guard patrolling the street near Bafford's? Or guards only reacting when you go into certain zones like the ones at the front gate at Bafford's? I tried looking at them in DromEd but couldn't figure out what makes them work.

>> No.8597781

I've never played any fan missions because I'm autistic about not hearing Stephen Russell's voice. Same reason I never played thi4f

>> No.8597990

>>8595805
>remaking an OM from TDS or Thi4f into Thief 1/2

>> No.8598059

>>8597990
didn't they do that with The Chalice of Souls?

not my favourite mission desu. not a fan of the grimdark aesthetic they went for

>> No.8598396
File: 18 KB, 597x775, Map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8598396

>>8597510
Here's how I'm solving this:
Blue: Area I'm going to add this
Red: Area I'm going to remove this
My intention for the guild itself is to make traversing it like the bank in TMA, going from corner to corner in the extremely non-linear, heavily guarded map, with a few spots with good loot in them. And maybe with the sewer station idea I mentioned.

>> No.8598412
File: 137 KB, 800x444, tumblr_obm761e3BG1qj5nvno1_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8598412

>>8597031
it really bothers me when artists make comics, but every panel is a separate file.

>> No.8598415
File: 207 KB, 800x797, tumblr_obm761e3BG1qj5nvno2_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8598415

>>8598412

>> No.8598418
File: 136 KB, 800x524, tumblr_obm761e3BG1qj5nvno3_1280.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8598418

>>8598415

>> No.8598437

>>8597760
What are you trying to do? What stimuli? What kind of area?

>> No.8598464

>>8598437
I'm trying to do a similar thing to the Bafford job with people in the street not caring about the hooded weirdo walking around (unless he attacks them) but with people inside acknowledging him as a burglar. Maybe with additional AI component of city guards caring about the player approaching the front door of the mansion - Hammers in Undercover kinda work like this with red hammer symbol areas.

>> No.8598467

>>8598464
just look at their properties, there's a bunch of metaproperies that do that

>> No.8598481

>>8598464
I think it's M-AlertCapZero
I learned about it here:
https://www.thiefmissions.com/tutorials/Spike14CompleteTut.html#AIs

>> No.8598547

So many tits and random pinup girl posters in Calendra's Legacy. What a time capsule for early 2000s coomers.

>> No.8598593

Anyone have useful lists for making FMs?
Stuff like a list of texture families (which I'm in need of)

>> No.8598595

>>8598593
If texture families aren't already listed for you to pick from a dropdown menu, your version of DromEd is out of date.

>> No.8598617

>>8598595
>Copied and pasted from the DromEd Discord
Thief TDP/Gold DromEd Installation
Standard option:
1. Install TFix. Make sure to uncheck all of the mods/addons it offers (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134733))
2. Install the latest (beta) version of the DromEd Basic Toolkit (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141708))
3. Download the latest NewDark raw. Extract the contents of editor.zip (which is inside the zip you download) directly into your thief installation (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146448))

"Experimental" option:
1. Use my patcher and check the DromEd + Basic Toolkit options (https://github.com/JarrodDoyle/thief1-patcher/releases/download/v1.0-alpha-2/T1Patcher_1.0-alpha-2.exe)) (edited)
[2:21 PM]

I didn't actually download Tfix like this guide listed by the way, I just configured my Dromed settings after Lite and set everything up myself but I don't remember everything I did at the moment aside from enabling the hardware accelerated 3D view, setting up a custom resolution, and setting the correct brush/object limits.

>> No.8598890

>>8598595
I think there is some menu config fuckery involved because the NewDark DromEd shows only a couple of menus for me in Thief Gold, as opposed to the one in Thief 2 that displays menus for texture families and that sort of stuff. Or did I break it somehow?

>> No.8598901
File: 9 KB, 221x313, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8598901

>>8598890
It should look like this in Thief 1.

>> No.8598996
File: 15 KB, 276x368, 1643505506041.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8598996

>>8598901
I see now, I'm on loonix so the files Menus.cfg and MENUS.CFG can exist together in the same directory. It kept reading the old one that came pre-packaged with the game.

>> No.8599067

>>8598996
How are you running TG/T2 on Linux? Got a laptop with Arch I've been debating installing some games on but not sure what's the best way to do these things nowadays with all the fancy stuff like Proton and Lutris that exists now.

>> No.8599109

>>8599067
Wine is much better nowadays than it was 10 years ago, most games work out of the box with it. For Thief with NewDark I just run it in a default 32bit prefix and it runs just fine; I just don't seem able to get EAX emulation working in Pulseaudio.
Some older games work better on Wine than on Windows, though some games, especially newer just refuse to run.

>> No.8599359
File: 160 KB, 661x605, box garrett.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8599359

>>8597014
>>8597065
>Could you note the differences between NPC's in Tfix vs Tfix lite?
TFix Full replaces the guard AI in T1 with the guard AI from T2, something that you are not told about or allowed to unselect when installing it. Meanwhile TFix Lite keeps the original T1 AI, so there's no issue there.

The problem is that NPCs in T2 were "dumbed down", they behave differently so as to compensate for the bigger size of the levels: guards in 2 generally pay less attention to noises and seeing you on their peripheral vision. There's also a difference in their search patterns, and the way they react to various things you do, and the behaviour of archer guardsr, but I don't know much about any of those.

So, shoving the T2 AI into T1 fundamentally changes the gameplay of dealing with guards, because every emergent situation you create has been heavily modified in ways you were not told about when patching with TFix Full. You are not playing the game as intended, you are just playing on a heavily modified difficulty defined by whatever voodoo47 felt like arbitrarily adding that day. And that's without counting all the other undocumented nonsense in TFix Full... It's just shady in every way and why everyone should be playing with TFix Lite instead.

>> No.8599397

>>8599067
Wine runs windows apps on Linux and it runs Thief out of the box perfectly.

>> No.8599401

how retarded does this sound as idea for a contest mission:
>First City Bank and Trust
>just like the original, it's a bank that uses state of the art mechanist security
HOWEVER
>you don't actually visit the public spaces
>instead, you traverse a large network of utility corridors + a few offices and the vault itself
>corridors are staffed with servants that mechanists consider unfit for public display
>lots of alien/futuristic architecture (think brainchild)
I'm taking a lot of inspiration from the obscure "Lord Alan" missions. in particular Lord Alan's Basement, where you break into a mansion but spend most of your time in the oversized basement underneath it. Lord Alan's Factory, with its larger-than-life industrial environments, also offers thematic inspiration.

does it sound dumb enough to work or simply dumb?

>> No.8599421

>>8599401
try it, i don't believe in some magical algorithm for optimal mission design, just do what you think is fun

>> No.8599564

>>8599359
>The problem is that NPCs in T2 were "dumbed down", they behave differently so as to compensate for the bigger size of the levels
I think they were changed this way to compensate the way shadows worked in Thief 2 too. If I recall correctly, shadow in old dark Thief 1 wasn't affected by movement and was less affected by crouching. In Thief 2 and NewDark, moving is a much bigger deal and the light gem freaks out when you run in near-perfect or even perfect shadow.
I'd argue this change is at least a bit justified, seeing how in NewDark it's much harder to remain unseen when moving,

>> No.8600464
File: 226 KB, 1280x629, sb2_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8600464

>> No.8600697

Can I run missions that are meant for Thief TDP with a Thief Gold install?

>> No.8600717

>>8600697
Sure, as far as I am aware there are no issues with it. You also can run Gold missions with TDP if you install appropriate data patch, this one.

http://www.thief-thecircle.com/download.asp?fid=589

>> No.8600723

Tell me why there's so much hype for the black parade? I don't follow the community but I've been playing thief since 2013 and so many FM's I've lost count. Sadly I can't play Thief anymore, I've seen and experienced everything there is and I just can't play it anymore it saddens me. Every once in a while I try to boot up a FM and hope there's a spark.

>> No.8600727
File: 4 KB, 305x144, qbittorrent_VuS767Ioz6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8600727

>>8593145
Trickster is at it once again

>> No.8600732

I heckin love these games. I play through 1 and 2 every couple of years. Are the fan missions worth it? Like, I'd want something that captures the feel of the TDP in particular.

>> No.8600743

>>8600732
Well, they're free so no harm in checking some out. I think many are surprisingly well made. The authors put tags so you know what type of mission it is and/or the environment they take place in. For example, type could be horror with a cathedral environment.

>> No.8600784

>>8600723
>Sadly I can't play Thief anymore, I've seen and experienced everything there is and I just can't play it anymore it saddens me.
Nonsense.

>> No.8601232

Is there a mod or something that makes guards notice when other guards are missing on patrol? Anything like that?

>> No.8601292
File: 941 KB, 1024x768, dump036.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8601292

What were they thinking?

>> No.8601407

>>8597031
Jesus what a fucking faggot, I knew TFix was plagued with retarded changes but I never knew how much of a faggot the guy who put it all together was
Based Skacky for calling him out on it

>> No.8601647
File: 45 KB, 794x424, teaparty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8601647

>>8596691
i think i did my first playthrough with voodoo's shitty tfixed thief 2 models ages ago but now i can't play tdp/gold without the original npc models, they're just too fucking good. the original hammerite guard's stupid condescending smirk alone is fucking legendary. i don't hate the thief 2 models per se, they look less janky but there's just something charming about thief 1's disfigured inbred guardsmen made up of 10 polygons each and i'll be damned if i'm going to give them up entirely
coincidentally, the thief wiki still uses a bunch of tfix-ed thief 1 screenshots with thief 2 models and textures in them... this is exactly the kind of minor spergy nitpick i'd expect to see on 4channel dot org but it rustles my jimmies >:(
>>8593145
what fm collection :/
>>8599109
are you using openal soft? i'd love to ditch the totalitarian pajeet spyware nightmare that is nu-windows before 7 inevitably becomes unusable for anything internet-facing, but there are still a ton of roadblocks for me on that front and i've never seen or heard of anyone getting hrtf/3d audio working in wine, it's a niche undocumented clusterfuck on vista and newer as-is
>>8600732
there are more thief 1-inspired fms coming out now than ever before, you evidently missed the tdp 20th anniversary fm contest which... holy shit that was three years ago
>>8601232
unlike ss2 or deus ex there aren't really any ai or gameplay overhauls for thief 1 and 2 that i'm aware of, even though dromed is entirely capable of handling something like that. there's the "ultimate difficulty" mod on moddb but from what i've heard it's the textbook definition of bullshit artificial difficulty. there are plenty of fms that make their own tweaks to different systems and so forth but afaik there's no gmdx-style mod for the oms. i do like the oms as they are, but not having basic shit like guards reacting to open doors in thief 1 is incredibly obnoxious

>> No.8601673
File: 5 KB, 150x150, myeyes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8601673

>>8596691
>>8601647
The fucking gamma holy shit

>> No.8601693
File: 738 KB, 1190x1072, seamonkey_lPzKi0EziP.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8601693

>>8601673
well it is an 18 year old screenshot...

>> No.8601734

>>8600723
>why hype for Black Parade
In recent years there has been renewed appreciation for Thief 1's weirdo spooky fantasy/urban style, with really talented mappers making cool atmospheric stuff. Some of those mappers are working on Black Parade.

Lotta talent, a well-liked style, and it's a large project which is rare.

>> No.8601796
File: 3.19 MB, 600x529, 1637858685147.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8601796

I've played Thief on Tfix, but now after reading this thread, I'm contemplating switching to Tfix lite in the near future.
I have a few questions related to fan missions if someone would be kind:
1: Can fan missions easily be run on both Tfix and Tfix lite? If both, is the installation process different for each?
2: Where's a definitive guide to installing fan missions. From the forum postings I've seen there's like three different platforms to install them with, and it's hard to tell what method(s) are dated or not. Just looking for an easy, crystal clear, step by step way to do it that doesn't assume the user has been modding Thief for years on end already. I don't mind changing a file or two with notepad if there's no good installer, and that's part of the process, but I just want the instructions to be crystal clear and not convoluted.
3: If fan missions are supposed to work on both Tfix and Tfix lite, what missions are "broken" (a post mentioned this problem earlier here) on either one of those, so I know which missions to tackle with which mod?

>> No.8601837

I gotta check what version of TFix I just played. Dunno if I picked Lite from the get-go, but seeing that fence in Haunted Cathedral pissed me off and I want to make damn sure I’m running with the OG guard AI. Like what the fuck

>> No.8601869

>>8601796
Just use FMSel for playing fan missions which you enable by uncommenting "fm" in cam_mod.ini, and there's no functional difference between running FMs for Tfix and Tfix lite, it's just that Tfix fucks up the things mentioned earlier on in the thread.

>> No.8601926

>>8601869
Thanks, I'm still have some trouble though.
I got FMSel to open with your advice, but it's not detecting the fan mission I downloaded. I extracted the mission to a separate folder. Then I clicked the gear icon in FmSel, then clicked "FM Archive Path' and selected my folder with the fan mission. FmSel seem to detect anything, even as I exited and reloaded it. Any advice?

>> No.8601928

>>8601926
Set up an archive directory that only stores zipped fan missions and set it to be your archive path in FMse.

>> No.8601930

>>8601926
* FMSel didn't seem to detect anything

>> No.8601931

>>8601928
And don't extract FMs, FMSel does it for you.

>> No.8601939

>>8601931
>>8601928
That worked! Thanks so much for being patient with me, anon.

>> No.8601947
File: 199 KB, 1360x768, angel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8601947

>>8601796
Don't use FMSel, its shit so don't listen to him. Use AngelLoader instead, it can read FMs for all 3 Thief games along with System Shock 2, and unlike a certain shitty built-in launcher that is no longer actively mantained, it has zero problem detecting your FMs. Plus you get much better features that FMIncel doesn't have, such as a comfy UI for browsing, the ability to see the custom resources used in each FM, a star system for rating FMs, a decent tag system, a system for patching FMs if needed, and it lets you write what difficulty you completed FM on. Remember to not extract any FM files though. It's just great and better than fmc*el on every front, you can even launch the original games from there and many other miscellaneous shit if you like.

>> No.8601953

>>8601947
I used to use AngelLoader but uninstalled it doesn't actually offer anything you can't do with FMSel and some cam_mod edits for auto DML patching old FMs to NewDark.

>> No.8601961

>>8601953
uninstalled it because it*

>> No.8601983

>>8601947
Hmmm... Does it mitigate the issues this anon >>8596697 is referring to? It would be nice to not have to switch back and forth between Tfix and Tfix lite for certain fan missions that are "broken" on Tfix.

>> No.8601991

>>8601947
lol who the hell hates on FMsel? only on 4chan would I see such a weirdo contrarian position

use FMsel because it's the standard and mod authors recommend it, what a dumb thing to get pissy about

>> No.8601995

>>8601983
No. Most of the features he listed are already present on FMSel or irrelevant.

>> No.8602000

>>8601947
FMSel is perfectly fine, what are you on about? It's barebones and has no fluff but it's not bad at all.

>> No.8602014

>>8601983
not him but no, i dont think its possible. i think that angelloader only lets you specify one install for each game, so you're not able to have 2 copies of thief 1 in angelloader, for instance.
you most definitely can, however, use both fmsel and angelloader together to do what you're looking for. you launch your tfix full install with one program, and your tfix lite install with the other, allowing you to play any fm w/ either one of those. dont fall in this culture war meme and use both if you want.

>> No.8602026

>>8601673
>>8601693
This is probably because CRT monitors could get way darker than LCDs and you used the monitor darkness settings way more than you do nowadays.
t. still plays with CRT

>>8601647
>what fm collection :/
Some anon made a gigantic 31GB torrent full of thief fan missiosn.

>> No.8602027

>>8602014
Thanks, that's very helpful. I might just do that. Would there be a way to do that with just FMSel, or would that get too convuluted, where I'd always have to be changing settings around? My instinct is that you could do that with FMSel, but not sure.

>> No.8602028

>>8602026
>Some anon made a gigantic 31GB torrent full of thief fan missiosn
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:64d8cc65e8e605446a076041da9c244c41bd1d27&dn=Thief%20collection

>> No.8602030

>>8602027
Each install of Thief would have its own instance of FMSel with their own directories so yes, you don't have to use AngelLoader at all.

>> No.8602035

>>8601947
>why use a simple mod loader that works when you could use a mod loader with literally the same functionality but also packed with a fuckload of features that you don't need
I choose to blame this sort of retardation on Steam

>> No.8602036

>>8602030
Thanks, that's what I suspected. Perfect.

>> No.8602060

>>8602035
Different anon, but having ratings for each FM is a huge reason to use it instead of sorting through 31GB of FMs blindly.
Which reminds me, there's a guy who wants to create a website this year where he'll rate every single FM that came out for Thief games.

>> No.8602062

>>8602060
You can rate things with FMSel.

>> No.8602067

>>8602062
Oh in that case forget what I said.

>> No.8602078

>>8602060
>there's a guy who wants to create a website this year where he'll rate every single FM that came out for Thief games
Vaguely reminds me of the guy that would play every single Dink Smallwood mod and rate them on his website. He's no longer with us I think

>> No.8602108

>>8602060
I don't understand how the ability to rate missions would help you sort through 31GB of FMs (I don't understand why people want 31GB of FMs in the first place, I have to say). Presumably you're adding the ratings yourself after trying them, right? How is the ability to rate going to help you pick ones to play out of the 31GB?

I have kept my own spreadsheet of FMs w/ ratings and comments for years because I don't want to forget, but I don't see how that's related to the 31GB issue.

>> No.8602130

If you have nothing else to go off of, this TTLG thread is an okay starting point to find new FMs. It's just one dude's descriptions but searching by keyword ("mansion", "tomb", "rooftops", etc.) can at least help narrow down the possibilities. The best way IMO is to say what your favorite mission type is and get recs from other players w/ their descriptions.

>> No.8602136

>>8602130
forgot the link:
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148090

>> No.8602142

>>8602130
>>8602136
Thank you for posting this, it'll be very useful once I'm done replaying the series.

>> No.8602229

>>8599401
I like this idea. I love "behind the scenes" areas when you're in the guts of a building or facility. Also Lord Alan's Basement is great. Most people talk about Lord Alan's Fortress which is indeed awesome but I thought Basement was superb in an old-school adventure game kind of way, like Zork or something, with gated access to different areas and even a legit maze in the top section. Very playful and creative layout that ignores realism (what kind of basement is this??) in favor of fun obstacles, layout, and progression. Stylish too.

>> No.8602267
File: 60 KB, 518x562, am16 fixed.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8602267

>AM16's fixed levels for Thief Gold
That's interesting. While making space on my HDD to seed everything in the torrent I see this mod was in there, so I grabbed it. I already had his modded levels for Thief 2 installed but had no idea he did the same for T1 too.
How do you install these levels for T1? TTLG says I should use a FM launcher to launch them but screw that, I want them to replace the main missions directly . Would dropping the .mis files in my Gold install folder be enough or is there something else I need to do? Already have TFix Lite installed and im worried there'll be some conflict or some shit.

>> No.8602272

>>8602267
You should do what TTLG says rather than shoot yourself in the foot.

>> No.8602460

Now that I only have Masks and Soulforge left I think I can safely say that I will always be a T1fag. Nevertheless, T2 had its moments and it's probably going to take a while before I find another game this good. Playing classics only a few decades after their time sure has its benefits.

>> No.8602469
File: 560 KB, 573x612, thief2_3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8602469

>>8602460
You have to keep in mind that pretty much everyone at LGS thought they would go under before T2 even finished, so what's there is amazing and a Gold edition would have really smoothed out the rough edges it has.

>> No.8602470
File: 692 KB, 573x612, thief2_10.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8602470

>>8602469
Check link for context regarding previous pic and why it was removed.
https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75961&p=920723&viewfull=1#post920723

>> No.8602650

>>8602469
>>8602470
Thanks, this was interesting. Given the circumstances it's understandable, but even if they had more time to polish the levels imho that wouldn't change that much. The experience they gained from T1 to create coherent levels comes through even when they are clearly cutting corners, but to me this string of missions is conceptually inferior to to the first game's wild ride.
> It's kind of mysterious -that seemed appropriate, and I thought that it would surprise people visually
He is right, I would have loved finding it. The entire game is so full of easter eggs and pop culture references I can't buy the not related to the Thief universe excuse. Placing a memorial in the game before it's even released IS pretty bleak though.

>> No.8602663

>>8602650
My biggest critique of Thief 2 would be that it's designed within the stealth game mold rather than trying to break it like Thief 1 did. Every objective and mission is designed for a stealth game or to fit stealth game tropes, whereas I feel that in Thief 1, the objectives were just there, and you had to accomplish them as a thief.

>> No.8602702

>>8602663
I feel you. Precious Cargo managed to crack me up with its sudden James Bond vibe, and combining The Lost City with Strange Bedfellows is an idea that would never enter my mind unless I was seriously wasted, but yes. T1 wasn't entirely sure what it wanted to be, and intentionally or not that contributed tremendously to its greatness.

>> No.8603016

>>8602460
>I will always be a T1fag
based
I love both games, they're equally my favorite game ever made, but I'll always prefer 1 for its variety, and I personally love all the supernatural themed missions, Bonehoard is my favorite OM
T2 I end up feeling fatigued with by the end of a playthrough, whereas I could easily play Thief 1 in a single sitting if I had the time

>> No.8603263

>>8602663
Yeah, Thief 2 doesn't really mix things up all that much.

>> No.8603335

>>8603263
Comparing to Thief 1 they did mix things up a lot but relative to the stealth genre as a whole I agree. In T2's defense the genre was practically still in its infancy and I'm taking a big steamy dump on one of my favorite games I replay almost yearly. It's like picking your favorite child.

>> No.8603339

>>8602663
>stealth game mold
How much did that "mold" even exist when T2 was released

>> No.8603787

How do you feel about the recent glut of content creators mining thief for engagement?

>> No.8603792

>>8603787
I only watch my buddies play so it's irrelevant to me.

>> No.8603834

>>8603787
How recent are we talking? I don't think I've seen a Thief video that's newer than a year

>> No.8603897

>>8603834
>How recent are we talking?
As recent as my latest video, which you can watch now ;-)

>> No.8604092

>>8603787
Citation needed

>> No.8605000

>>8603897
Link?

>> No.8605017

>>8603339
More than it did in 1996 when they started Dark Camelot.

>> No.8605039
File: 195 KB, 521x521, 529bf633a2fa26cb4a66205bbe937c3507257c88f19de2294bd8a3168e0197f4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8605039

Should I do Bonehoard or Assassins for the NewDark anniversary contest? I have a pretty solid idea for a more vertical city layout for Assassins, and had an idea for a twist where you actually do get to rob the Hammerite church, but on the other hand I really love Bonehoard and the supernatural OMs in general.
I also had a really dumb idea to make a Song of the Caverns that takes place in actual caverns but that would probably end up extremely boring.

>> No.8605046

Sorry for the retarded question, but how are you supposed to play?
I remember trying the demo in the late 90's and trying the game in the late 00's, but I quit at the second level because I can't seem to play the way the game expects me to. I'd always walk on guards, who would spot me right away and bludgeon me to my demise.
So I'd just have to spam save/reload to avoid them, turning the game into a very unfun experience.

Would you guys care to make a webm or youtube video of ~2 minutes to show a confused (and probably retarded) anon how YOU play.

>> No.8605067

I'm currently making my mission in dromed and I would like to know how to turn on this thing that causes brushes to fade as you move further away from them, it would really help with making multi-floored buildings.
I have it enabled in one specific .mis file but can't remember how it happened.

>> No.8605313

>>8605046
running is a part of the game
so are flashbombs + blackjack to get out of a bad encounter
use your resources, don’t push yourself to perfect ghost everything if that’s no fun
accept a few mistakes then start reloading if shit gets real bad like alert guards everywhere getting on your case
as i get better i like to try and ironman instead of perfect ghosting, that shit is no fun to me

>> No.8605360

>>8605046
Sounds to me like you're not taking advantage of sound at all. You shoud have heard the guard before he opened the door. It also helps to know that flash bombs let you knock out guards regardless of their alert status or light level.

>> No.8605448

>>8605313
>>8605360
So I'm not supposed to go full Splinter Cell? I can still interact with guards and such? (read: be spotted and start whacking)

>> No.8605489

With the risk of angering purists, does anyone have a workable link to download necroage? I wanna try it for a second play through. I tried downloading it from the ttlg forum, but it made me request access on google docs, which was never granted to me.

>> No.8605578
File: 82 KB, 1080x1047, 1643591739223.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8605578

>>8605046
I probably won't have time to make a video in the upcoming days but I've seen someone completely new to the series play recently so I think I have some important points for someone completely new.
>light level is probably even more important than line of sight; when looking for safe places you shouldn't look for places where no one could physically see you because you can't survey surroundings from there; instead, you should look for decent vantage points in which your light gem is completely or almost completely dark. When the tiny diode on the right side of the gem is black (not yellow or red), a guard would have to almost bump into you to see you. Do bear in mind that they still have perfect dark vision in a small cone about 3 feet in front of their heads.
>first alerts are completely fine; sometimes a guard will say "thought I saw something" without changing the direction he's walking in or his stance - that's just an early warning for you. If a guard says that you can just withdraw into a deeper shadow - when you're in medium shadow (a bit dim gem, yellow diode) they still won't see you from greater distances, and the first alert is just a sign for you that they might confirm visual soon if you don't hide better
>the gradation of floor sounds is uneven and kind of stupid. You can run on stone and wood, and as long as you don't jump, you can run right up to guards if light conditions are dim enough. On carpets you can run and jump completely silently without repercussions. Marble and metal though, you're better off not making any sound at all if the nearest guard isn't behind at least a closed door, because they'll react immediately. Slow crouching (faster than creep, slower than run crouching) in short increments will make you slide across the floor completely silently, but is painfully slow
>1/2

>> No.8605597

>>8605448
yes it’s the way the game is meant to be played on your first go. you’ll be peeling your scalp off by the near endgame if you reloaded after getting caught every time. save ghosting for subsequent playthroughs when you have an understanding of the levels and enemy placements
splinter cell is the same way, the sticky shocker is essentially that game’s flash bomb

>> No.8605608
File: 39 KB, 400x509, not noided.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8605608

>>8605046
>>8605578
>2/2
>flash bombs are absolute get-out-of-jail-free cards; when absolute rancid shit hits the fan and you don't want to savescum like a ghosting autist, you can always toss one in front of 1-2 guards. Blinded guards are temporarily *completely unaware* of Garrett, and as such can be blackjacked from any direction
>speaking of blackjacking, any enemy, even completely 100% aware, can be knocked out if hit with blackjack right on the back of the head. This can be abused for example on servants that are running away, or guards that have been beat up a bit and start to run away from you
What I'm saying is, ghosting looks cool on paper but I think playing past failure is more in the spirit of the game, and you get tools like gas arrows/mines and flashbombs that give you a bit of much needed leeway.

>> No.8605609

>>8605597
*sigh*
Okay, I'll reinstall the game next week-end.
Is Thief Gold okay?

>> No.8605625
File: 3.59 MB, 3840x7826, t1 hd pack shit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8605625

>>8605609
Yes, Gold is absolutely OK. People love to hate on the exclusive levels but it's just a meme, so just make sure to use your compass and maybe look up what order to get the items in Thieves Guild and youll be ok. Also make sure that TFix Lite 1.26 is installed beforehand. Dont install regular TFix (TFix Full) or any HD packs, because theyre shit on every level as you can see on the posts above.

>captcha: TWARM

>> No.8605627

>>8605625
I'll copy this message to a txt file before I forget.
I should be fine with "just" the tutorial (there's one IIRC), right?
Generally speaking, can I just flee encounters and try to approach again, or will I have to whip out the smile eraser and knock everyone out?

>> No.8605630

>>8605046
>So I'd just have to spam save/reload to avoid them, turning the game into a very unfun experience.
I would advise using saves for things like platforming/ladders that might kill you or setting self checkpoints. Savescumming takes a lot out of the game.

>>8605448
Ghosting is a good way to make this game as painful as possible. The levels are enormous, a lot of guards take random paths and it takes a while before you get to the point where you can guess where guards are gunna be just by listening. Getting caught is part of the game. It's not like Dishonored or Splinter Cell where if you get caught every enemy pulls out their gun or runs as fast as you. You can make mistakes.

>>8605609
Yeah. Play on Hard or Expert because the difficulty in this game doesn't change the AI's sensing ability it changes the levels. On normal the levels are basically empty and you don't even need to escape the place you broke into when you get your objectives. Also Thief 1 throws you curveballs constantly so get ready for that. It's not a straight forward stealth game where you will break into a mansion and know what to expect. You're basically a Thief in a D&D campaign doing whatever you can to make money. Eventually you're going to see zombies and sutff. I suggest just ignoring them.

>> No.8605647
File: 162 KB, 602x476, imageedit_1_9565534346.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8605647

>>8605630
>Eventually you're going to see zombies and sutff
Thanks for the spoiler, anon :(

>> No.8605665

>>8605630
>or runs as fast as you
This was kinda missleading. Enemies are as fast as you but it's pretty easy to juke enemies in Thief just by climbing on stuff or taking shortcuts.

>>8605627
>I should be fine with "just" the tutorial (there's one IIRC), right?
Yeah. Most of the game comes down to just familiarizing yourself with the mechanics. What you can run on, what you have to walk on, when to use what arrow, how to know there's a guard coming, etc.
>Generally speaking, can I just flee encounters and try to approach again, or will I have to whip out the smile eraser and knock everyone out?
Yeah they will just be more alert and have better hearing.

>>8605647
>Thanks for the spoiler, anon :(
I mentioned it because everytime I see new guys play the game they try to fight the zombies despite the fact you can't kill them without holy water + they're really really really really really slow. It's one of the biggest hangups for people getting into the series.

>> No.8605683

>>8605609
TDP is missing basic shit people take for granted like sounds when you drop bodies.

>> No.8605728
File: 1.22 MB, 3491x2330, tbp_cover2jpg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8605728

>>8605627
>I should be fine with "just" the tutorial
You mean the training mission? Just press "Start Training" in the menu and you can play it, it will teach about the basics of movement and using items, but it won't teach you much about actively dealing with guards or KO'ing people, so you'll have to pick up on those skills as you play.

>flee encounters and try again
You absolutely can do that but be warned: when a guard spots you, he will give chase for a while until you flee from his sight. After he loses you, he'll return to his regular patrol, but he will be *permanently* more alert to noises from then on. He might also alert other NPCs in the vicinity, so things can get ugly pretty fast... that's why you should be careful to not to alert anyone. Moving silently, paying attention to your environment, examining nearby guard patrols, and sticking to the shadows as much as you can, it will all come a long way for you.

>smile eraser and knock everyone out?
It's absolutely ok to blackjack people , especially when they're the only person in the room other than you, or when they're in a tricky patrol/position that hinders your movement. Just don't go around blackjacking everyone because it can get tedious and remove all challenge from the game, you should try observing patrols and going around them instead. Remember that civilians can always be KO'd even if they are alerted, but regular guards can only be KO'd if they are unaware of your presence.

Also, just in case you're either ESL or hearing-impaired , there is a subtitle patch in the TTLG forums that will add captions to every NPC dialogue and cutscene in the game. Just letting you know because I'm ESL myself and I find subtitles pretty useful.

>> No.8605838

>>8605039
Merge both and do a city layout into a Bonehoard type section akin to The Lost City but with a larger city area.

>> No.8605904

>>8605625
Is the right side Tfix -- or is it Tfix is it with the HD mod? And what's up with that woman in the painting on the bottom? What version was she in?

>> No.8605917

>>8605904
*Tfix with the HD mod

>> No.8605948

I think we can all agree that Thief 2 is strictly inferior to 1 because you can't strafejump around at extreme velocity and die upon impact with a wall

>> No.8606230
File: 88 KB, 800x1132, Thinking taffer on sofa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8606230

>>8605904
Right side is game patched with both TFix Full and the awful HD Pack Mod.

The HD Pack is an optional feature in TFix Full that fucks up the artstyle by replacing everything with dark and muddy textures. Girl on the bottom is the girlfriend of the creator of the HD Pack, he shoved her in his ridiculous mod and, as you can see, she's just really jarring and out of place in this game. Blue guy painting is part of this HD pack and he is jarring too, but I wont tell you anymore about him since its a spoiler for the game.

On the top right of the image, by the way, you can see the higher polygon NPC models imported from Thief 2, which TFix Full installs by default without giving you the option to unselect them. Some posts above we had a discussion on why the newer models are bad, they clash with the artstyle of Thief 1 a lot.

Stuff like this is why it's always recommended to play Thief 1 with only TFix Lite, especially on a first playthrough, because Lite doesn't come with any major bullshit alterations that uninformed players might accidentally install. Just look how shitty all that muddyness on the right is... totally wrong and out of place.

>> No.8606352

>>8605904
The bozo who made the optional HD mod included with TFix replaced one of the soulful paintings with a random thot.
Full TFix still includes asset changes to the original game, like awkward cut dialogue and character models, which is why TFix Lite is recommended around these parts.

>> No.8606473
File: 1.77 MB, 1920x1080, dump000.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8606473

Started on my contest entry a bit. Still deciding if it will be a Mage Towers rework or if it will be some other mission (still from thief 1).

Either way this is the entry area to the compound (textures obviously WIP) but I like the shapés.

>> No.8606841

>>8606473
the wooden trim almost looks more like it belongs with the bavarian style texture set
looks cool otherwise

>> No.8607164

>hate undead missions when I first played the game 10+ years ago
>really like undead missions now
???

>> No.8607169
File: 1.97 MB, 1587x2878, garret.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8607169

reminder

>> No.8607372

yoo the names garrett
i got moves like a ferret

>> No.8607762

Anon who makes Thieve's Guild here, does an abandoned sewer section filled with zombies sound like a good idea? I've been thinking of putting the expert objective there.

>> No.8607923

>>8607762
Yes. Do it.

>> No.8608146

>>8607164
same thing happened to me. I initially wanted a sneaky guard-dodging stealth game 100% of the time, then realized a lot of undead missions are like an immersive solo D&D adventure. I love both for different moods.

>> No.8608614
File: 312 KB, 895x1110, Thief 4 Concept Page 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8608614

>>8607169
>the soulless nuThief reboot we got was a million times better than the actual Thief 4
Weird to think about, just look at this shit it could have been way worse.

>> No.8608626
File: 467 KB, 844x1191, Thief 4 Concept Page 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8608626

>>8608614

>> No.8608632
File: 517 KB, 858x1188, Thief 4 Concept Page 3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8608632

>>8608626

>> No.8608704

>>8608614
Let's be real, that's still not the actual Thief 4.

>> No.8608806

>>8608614
>>8608626
>>8608632
It was going to just be Invisible War with Garrett.

>> No.8609101

>>8608806
I unironically enjoy Invisible War more than Deadly Shadows, but that has to do more with me holding Thief in higher regard than DX so a merging of the two wouldn't do it any favors.

>> No.8609175

>>8608614
>>8608626
>>8608632
not real

>> No.8609193

>>8608632
>Deus Ex is the ultimate form of Thief!
>t. Deus Ex team

This proposal will never not be funny.

>> No.8609337
File: 156 KB, 1440x1080, while airborne.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8609337

the what now
How many hidden statistics are there in Thief just waiting for me to play a mission in a weird wacky way?

>> No.8609352

>>8605948
>die upon impact with a wall
unironically my favorite thing about the bhopping

>> No.8609901

>>8609193
I mean, Deus Ex was pretty much born out of Warren Spector being butthurt he couldn't swordfight everyone in Thief and they wouldn't buff the character so that you didn't need to stealth at all.

>> No.8609974
File: 910 KB, 1920x1080, dump011.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8609974

Calendra's Legacy is cool in some ways but I don't think I would consider it one of the best FM campaigns of all time. The second mission got extremely tedious with the hordes of undead that would seemingly always patrol into me or follow me. I think I enjoyed Calendra's Cistern more.

>> No.8610642

>>8609974
I only have vague memories of Legacy but I remember not enjoying it all that much overall, I remember there being a huge mass patrol of hammers or guards in the first mission that could've been a bug but was really fucking annoying to deal with
I like Cistern though, despite its terrible writing

>> No.8610917

>>8605489
when in doubt, use darkfate: https://darkfate.org/view/details/files/projects/thief2_the_necro_age
>>8608632
this entire design doc is still one of the worst things i've ever read (the idea of an urban fantasy-horror stealth game is actually cool, butchering thief to make one, giving garrett epic op magical powers, and dumbing it down even more than invisible war... isn't) but i don't remember:
>The Thief series has always been held back by esoteric, unrecognizable fiction and passive, slow-paced gameplay
giving me a literal migraine the last time i saw this years ago. and i'm already sick :(

>> No.8610935
File: 944 KB, 779x909, firefox_HAKN6S8IBt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8610935

>>8609901
not trying to drag in /pol/ shit, but it is always worth remembering that deus ex was great in SPITE of warren spector producing it, virtually everything he's done since y2k has convinced me that he's a sniveling washed up hack like most of the ex-looking glass/origin sphere. harvey and sheldon pacotti deserve a lot more of the credit and it pains me to say even that, knowing that both of them embarrassed themselves afterwards with invisible war, that harvey went fucking insane too, and that pacotti's been practically invisible himself since the mid 2000s (although i can't say i blame him for actually wanting to live quietly and privately)
>>8605948
it takes five seconds with newdark to enable thief 1 style bhopping in cam_ext.cfg, but yes you're objectively correct

>> No.8611034

>>8610935
>deus ex was great in SPITE of warren spector producing it,
I agree, reading about the development of Deus Ex and how warren was practically sabotaging the project with his stupid managerial ideas puts the 20 year dicksucking of him in a new light. Also the fact that he gets credited for working on all these great LGS games when he was actually sucking EA/Origin dick halfway across the US while the actual devs were designing/programming the games.

>> No.8611545
File: 124 KB, 800x400, garrettheight.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8611545

>>8610935
>deus ex was great in SPITE of warren spector producing it
Listening to Warren talk about working on System Shock 1 and Ultima Underworld it seemed his roll was less to design the game and more to prevent business bureaucrats from meddling with the team. He even didn't screw over the Thief devs which shows his restraint to let people do their jobs. With Deus Ex it sounds like he had a really vague idea of what he wanted it to be and left it to the team to design the rest. Every leader is only as good as the people beneath him and he was lucky enough to work with some of the greatest talent in the history of games before the established trends of what a game should be was cemented in. It's when he stopped getting developers from MIT and such that he had real problems. Warren never really took sole credit for any of those games either. He always said stuff like "I knew immediately I was the dumbest person in the room". Shit like this is why I never trust anyone who attributes a successful game to one person.

>> No.8611594

>>8611545
>left it to the team to design the rest
To be more accurate, he split the team in two and pitted them against eachother with some sort of weird competition to decide who would lead the game.

>> No.8611598

>>8611594
That's what Steve Jobs did to invent the iPhone. One team wanted to make it more like an iPod one team wanted to make it more like a portable computer. Also Rare was 2 teams doing separate games trying to flex on eachother.

>> No.8611601

>>8608632
Blade was a cool movie

>> No.8612885
File: 921 KB, 960x720, t1 briefing city artwork.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8612885

>> No.8613339
File: 846 KB, 1920x1080, dump022.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8613339

Duality of man.

>> No.8613569
File: 1.43 MB, 1920x1080, dump005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8613569

>> No.8614397

>>8613569
is that from bones ep1?

>> No.8614621

>>8614397
yes

>> No.8614719

>>8613339
FM source NOW

>> No.8614728

>>8614719
Calendra's Legacy

>> No.8615038

>>8605039
I'd go for Bonehoard because undead missions are always the minority, and Assassin's has its tailing objective which would probably be a pain to implement for a first FM.

>> No.8616538
File: 121 KB, 800x600, t1-cutscene-sword.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8616538

>> No.8616682

>>8616538
Garrett looks like a huge meathead in that cutscene, I love it.

>> No.8617136
File: 1.29 MB, 1920x1080, dump011.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8617136

>> No.8617391

Goddamn, I've been playing with Tfix full for years. Why have I only just stumbled that it's a pos and tfix lite is what to use.
I will install in another directory with lite

>> No.8617503
File: 1.70 MB, 2036x768, Tfix lite vs Tfix.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8617503

Has this been mentioned yet?

>> No.8617506

>>8617503
The light is flickering here. I was always triggering the alarm in this place, no matter how stealthy I was.

>> No.8617513

>>8617506
you know you can kill the t1 cameras with broadheads right?

>> No.8617547

>>8617513
I tried this, it killed the camera, but it made the broadhead arrow hitting a hard surface sound, alerting the guard standing next to it.

>> No.8617658

>>8617547
the "dead" cameras also alert npcs who find them.

that being said, I don't remember those cameras being that hard to get past. it's been a while since I played cragscleft tho

>> No.8617684

>>8617658
just loaded up cragscleft and went there, you can literally just run past whenever the camera is facing away. I'm playing gold btw, but I assume most of us are

>> No.8617840

>>8617684
Gold makes cragscleft harder than TDP with updated patrol routes.

>> No.8617862

>>8617503
I could swear it was impossible to sneak by while the flickering light was off when I was playing with TFix, but I recently replayed it with TFix Lite and apparently the time window is almost a perfect fit for running past. I can't figure out whether it's because I'm better at the game now or because of the change in the pic
Dev literally upgraded gaslighting to electriclighting

>> No.8617870

>>8617840
kinda funny they didn't bother adding the missing front door.
without it, the haunted mines are the ONLY way into cragscleft

>> No.8617887

>>8617870
>the missing front door
The one past the kitchen and barracks? I remember there being a low res texture of an arched door at the end of that tunnel when I first played Thief, but I've never seen it after that. The garbage texture quality even made me theorize that the brush would be missing on lower difficulty levels and a more easily reachable exit would be there, but apparently you don't even have to break Basso out below Expert.

>> No.8618070

If I'm feeling exceptionally autistic I might scan through all the mission .dmls that come with lite and comment out the parts that add things like colored lights for alarms then upload it.

>> No.8618084

>>8617887
tfix adds a door texture if i'm not mistaken

>> No.8618113

>>8618084
Yes, which is one of the most sensible "abitrary" changes it does since the area brush in this vicinity is called exit.

>> No.8618184
File: 276 KB, 924x1000, 1593709103593.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8618184

>>8592963
I tried to play the original Thief a few years ago, put it on Normal but breezed through half of the game without much difficulty and eventually learnt I should've been playing it on Expert so I eventually changed it to Expert to give that a shot.

I liked the game but I really disliked how it expected you to get a really high amount of gold to complete certain levels, I would usually do all the objectives and have like 1200 gold found out of the needed 2000 to move onto the next level and it'd take me an hour or searching around an empty map just to find where it might've been hidden.

If I were to go back and give it another shot, would Hard be a better choice or should I just force my way through Expert? The last mission I remember getting to was The Haunted Cathedral around 4 years ago.

>> No.8618195
File: 384 KB, 800x401, rattt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8618195

>>8618184
idk man, keeping my eye out and exploring the level to hoover up all the little gold items with that little chime sound gave me a sense of dopamine

hard might be a nice compromise but you'll still be missing out on some new objectives

>> No.8618221

>after countless attempts, finally manage to strike farkus' arrow out of the air with the vase
>turns out he's scripted to die anyway
why do I try

>> No.8618230

what kind of shitty assassins were those guys anyway

>> No.8618234

>>8618230
Probably their first day on the job, very nervous

>> No.8618329

>>8618184
>, I would usually do all the objectives and have like 1200 gold found out of the needed 2000 to move onto the next level and it'd take me an hour or searching around an empty map just to find where it might've been hidden.
>The last mission I remember getting to was The Haunted Cathedral around 4 years ago.
That mission is brutal. The loot requirement isn't bad in most of the game but Christ almighty the Haunted Cathedral is retarded. My mind was blown when I discovered you only need 70% of the loot too. If you get stuck again on that level because of loot I unironically recommend looking up where the loot is or just skipping it when you think you've found enough. Otherwise you're going to spend forever picking through trash for rings worth 50 gp and necklaces the identical color of the leaves they're sitting on.

>> No.8618353

>>8617503
There's a corner in the restaurant at the beginning of Thieves Guild, near the kitchen where the chef npc is. In Tfix full, this corner has no shadow so you can't stealth past the chef, meanwhile in Tfix lite there is a big shadow there so you can pass right through without alerting him. Because voodoo is an idiot. Funny how he keeps making cases for installing Lite as the baseline instead of tfix full...

>> No.8618429

>>8618329
I literally never have trouble with loot in that missions. Early 2000s FMs have mindbroken me I guess and most games train you to never look up and down.

>> No.8618590

>>8618429
Looking up or down wont help you against the ring hidden behind the barrel you can't move or the gold necklace on leafs the identical color as it. I'm pretty sure there's a tower that looks like you're not even suppose to be able to get up to without bugging the game out with something in it, and I don't mean the area above the bridge either. I found all the loot legit the first time but I don't have the patience for that shit today. It feels like a massive waste of time.

>> No.8618817

>>8618590
I always spot those, what can I say.

>> No.8619298

>>8618184
Don't play on Expert if you struggle with loot. Playing on Hard is perfectly fine.

>> No.8619591

Heist Society is a fantastic FM.

>> No.8620220

>>8618184
The design behind the difficulty settings isnt based on general player experience of being affluent with computer game controls. When the difficulty says "Expert", you really should be an expert at the game and already have played the levels before. Or have completed a Thief game before. The difficulty settings are meant quite literally.

>> No.8620805
File: 1.83 MB, 1920x1080, dump008.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8620805

>>8619591
Anyone else love the 16 bit color banding in T2? It helps with the muted textures compared to TG.

>> No.8620850

>>8619591
It's worth playing on all the different difficulties, too.

>> No.8621419

>>8620220
I just played everything on Expert the first time because lower difficulty levels had fewer objectives and therefore less content. I wish the number of objectives you had to do was a setting separate from the difficulty level, like how in System Shock you could adjust the amount/complexity of combat and puzzles separately.

>> No.8621446

Man, people weren't kiding when they said Shipping and Receiving sucks. It's one of those stages where you can knock everyone out and still lose hours trying to complete the objectives.

>> No.8621501

>>8621446
It's near-universally regarded as one of the best T2 missions and does the warehouse atmosphere perfectly. They even give you a rope arrow pretty much right off the bat to traverse the environment.

>> No.8621665
File: 1.61 MB, 1920x1080, dump011.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8621665

>>8620805
Really nice brushwork in these rooms.

>> No.8621668

>>8621501
>near-universally regarded
lolwut

>> No.8621758

>>8621419
this whole "I gotta maximize my playing efficiency and see all the 'content' in one go" is a bad habit. god forbid you MISS OUT on something the first time you play a game. the games were designed to be played more than once and any added stuff on higher difficulties is so the level still has a few surprises for you the next time around. this FOMO attitude is poisonous. see also: secret areas.

>> No.8621829

>>8621758
Yeah. The difficulty system Thief is modeled off of (Goldeneye) didn't even let you pick the hardest difficulty until you played through a mission already.

>> No.8622064

>>8621758
Idk I never had an issue playing on expert, even the first time through
Same with a friend of mine who went in blind and played on expert because I recommende
Maybe the both of us just got lucky with finding loot though, or at least weren't bothered by having to scrounge around a little
I know that at this point it comes down to the experience I have with countless FM's but my most recent replay of Gold (probably my 3rd entire replay) I got basically 90% of loot on every mission without having to look anything up

>> No.8622297

>>8619591
I agree. It's probably the GOAT mansion FM, it doesn't ever get too long, the rooms are varied and the overall layout is well done. I like the reasonable objectives and how the mission changes on each difficulty, too. Just a great golden standard for mansions.

>>8618070
>I might scan through all the mission .dmls then upload it
Taking all the dumb things out of those files would be nice to see. I find it interesting how TFix Lite doesn't come with a .dml for the first Haunted Cathedral mission, it's the only level that Lite doesn't modify at all. Makes you wonder if voodoo47 really got so assblasted after getting called out on TTLG for modifying that mission in particular, that he removed every work he did in that mission no matter how small it was...

>> No.8622645

I'm have a real hard time navigating Thief fan missions. In Whistling of Gears for example it's like you can go in +3 directions at any given time.

>> No.8622657

>>8622645
Not a good example considering that map is a massive pain in the dick with a fuck you mid-mission objective.

>> No.8623002

Do you guys think we need a patcher that gives you more fine grained choices? Like, what dmls to add (and explains what that is), etc...

>> No.8623085

>>8592963
How do you get past Undercover if you fuck up the switches? I remember getting filtered hard by this level years ago.

>> No.8623134
File: 23 KB, 428x243, miko questions.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8623134

Are there any good Deadly Shadows fan missions?

>> No.8623384

>>8623085
They just reset.

>> No.8623461
File: 12 KB, 246x439, DromEd_Object_Model_expbeneg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8623461

After consuming years of content from RLM I can't take Apparitions seriously anymore. They sound like Mike Stoklasa when they go "whaaat?"

>> No.8623493

>>8623461
>After consuming years of content from RLM
my condolences

>> No.8623686

>>8623461
wtf is even RLM?

>> No.8623691
File: 1.52 MB, 1920x1080, dump001.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8623691

A mission like A Job Well Done is a perfect example of high fidelity while keeping the style of Thief 2 intact.

>> No.8623695
File: 1.70 MB, 1920x1080, dump003.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8623695

>>8623691

>> No.8623697
File: 1.49 MB, 1920x1080, dump004.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8623697

>>8623695

>> No.8623746

>>8623691
Haven't played this one, I'll check it out.

>> No.8623759

>>8622645
I found it a little hard to get started in The Whistling of the Gears myself. Tangled city maps can feel aimless at first. I ended up really liking it but at the start I just tell myself "pick a direction and go in it" and don't worry about all the side areas. Later on when I have a broad sense of the level I'll go back and knock everyone out and find all the nooks and crannies if I feel like it. In the beginning though I gotta stay in the moment and explore what seems immediately interesting rather than trying to optimize. Gears is particularly knotted though. That whole map is made of odd angles.

>> No.8623998

It has been interesting going back to Behind Closed Doors, comparing it with Ravensreach, and seeing how far Nicked has grown as a FM author. While Ravensreach is considered "lo-fi" by the author the brushwork blows everything in BCD out of the water and is just so pleasant to look at. I'd say the gameplay is better too but they're both trying to do very different things and I'm biased towards fantastical mission.

>> No.8625272

>>8623002
No. Tfix Lite is sufficient.

>> No.8625462

Scrapping my FM to start a new one with a better thought out layout and easier roombrushing and I'm betting I can recreate the buildings that took me 3 months to make in a couple of days.

>> No.8626128

>>8623759
>>8622645
I got filtered by the dogshit map in Whilstling
I finished it but it took me a long time to get into because how tight the level was and the map
Almost gave up after the fucking teleport and find the mcguffins objective

>> No.8626567

>>8623759
Yeah it grew on me. It has such a huge sense of scale with the level of detail and verticality. The midround objective was too much though and it started to wear out it's welcome.

>>8626128
I liked the map but that objective was real retarded.

>> No.8627268

>>8626567
Im usually fine with using obscure maps to navigate but the map in Whistling felt so inaccurate and hard to read
The objective was the real worst part, I was pretty done with the mission by the time that one popped up and I wasn't happy, I've grown tired of FMs pulling that bullshit recently

>> No.8627496

>>8627268
>The objective was the real worst part
It added nothing to the mission except force you to revisit areas you already went to. Uninstalled it right after that objective popped up, I was already feeling bored of the mission.

>> No.8627528

my biggest issue with Whistling is how cramped and visually cluttered it is, as well as how janky the platforming sections felt. I did finish it tho.

I still applaud the author for making an industrial environment in the style of T1.
I'm still waiting for the perfect take on the area from T1's ending cutscene

>> No.8627579

>>8627528
>I'm still waiting for the perfect take on the area from T1's ending cutscene
Already happened 20 years ago.

>> No.8627589

>>8627579
are you referring to Calendra's Legacy, mission 3? because that was the weakest mission in the campaign, and certainly didn't capture the feel of that cutscene

>> No.8628767
File: 577 KB, 1920x1080, dump002.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8628767

I finally got dromed elevators figured out

>> No.8628897

>>8627496
>Uninstalled it right after that objective popped up
Absolutely fair enough, like I said I already hate how much I encounter objectives like that in FMs but this one was especially egregious
The completionist autist in me forced me to finish the mission anyway, but it really made my opinion of it drop significantly

>> No.8629167

>>8627496
>>8628897
I lucked out in that I beelined straight for the main objective without even realizing it and finished it first. So having to get all the pieces wasn't much of a backtrack for me. Although when I hit the loot requirement before finishing any of the other objectives after that it let me know I was in for a slog somewhere down the line.

>> No.8629263

>>8606230
Why does Garrett look so hot in this image

>> No.8629274

>>8629263
it's indoors and he's overdressed

>> No.8629339

Can a kind anon explain if and how I can tell whether I have TFix full or lite installed?

>> No.8629346

>>8629339
Do you have a Tfix logo in your main menu? If yes, you have full installed.

>> No.8629357

>>8629346
Ah, thanks. I will have to reinstall a GOG copy and patch again with Lite this time.

>> No.8629373

>>8629357
>reinstall a GOG copy and patch again with Lite this time.
GOG already comes with latest version of TFix Lite installed though, so there's no need to patch your game if you got it from there

>> No.8629392

>>8629373
I'm taffing irl too, so I don't know how outdated the torrent is. What's worse is, I wouldn't have installed Tfix full if not for one FM that refused to work. I never touched it again either, so I just fucked my install for no reason.

>> No.8629402
File: 92 KB, 283x319, 1635763875752.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8629402

I really loved Thief 1 and 2 when I played them last year, also liked Thief 3 but I stopped playing at the cradle and lost my save when I got a new pc. Is it worth picking back up or does the game drop off after that mission?

>> No.8629405

>>8629402
I consider the peak of that game the seaside mansion so your mileage may vary.

>> No.8629601

>>8629402
There's a few levels left that are ok-ish. They aren't the high point, though.

>>8629405
Sneaking around the keeper area was also good. Plus that hammer cathedral.

>> No.8629607

>>8629601
I really dislike the Keeper area because of how pitifully small it is. That one part in Calendra's Legacy did a better job.

>> No.8629619

>>8629392
>torrent
Are you talking about the one from these threads? It's supposed to be most fresh. What mission you have problem with?

>> No.8630226

>>8629619
Nah, not the one from here.
I read all the commotion about Tfix full and didn't know which version I had installed, or rather updated with.

>> No.8631696
File: 223 KB, 800x600, t1-hammerites.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8631696

>> No.8631881

>>8631696
soulful dithering

>> No.8631902

>>8631881
beats banding any day of the week

>> No.8632849

>>8631902
I love T2's colored lighting and its rainbow effect.

>> No.8633436 [SPOILER] 
File: 45 KB, 858x483, 1645002666552.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8633436

>Sense of scale is off the charts
>Beautiful and fun to explore
>Cool rooftop exploring
Just one big problem. Almost every indoor area doesn't feel real. They're hallways with maybe one or two rooms that are conveniently laid out for you to pass through. It's real bad when you start noticing the fake doors rather than letting them be a backdrop. Really kills the atmosphere for me.

>> No.8633672

>>8633436
Also Skacky 's writting is bad. I always start yawning at the second sentence of any of his readables

>> No.8633690
File: 178 KB, 1336x680, 1581542471057.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8633690

>>8633672
I honestly never give a fuck about readables. I skim them mostly and forget them the second I close them out. I feel like I've read so many of these things they're all the same. It doesn't even feel like I'm snooping in on someones shit rather the level designer trying to put in information while also giving it the thinnest layer of story to hide it. Or they're trying to worldbuild the level with shit I don't really care about. It's the same thing with horror game readables.

>> No.8634118

>>8633436
What you want is unfeasible in the Dark engine. Feel free to try The Painter's Wife for TDM to see why it's not as good of an idea as you think it is.

>> No.8634243

>>8634118
> try The Painter's Wife for TDM to see why it's not as good of an idea as you think it is.
uhhh... What was his idea again?

>> No.8634428

>>8634118
You could always save my immersion and refrain from putting fake doors all over the place. Outside City levels, OMs have barely ane fake doors, and the fake doors in City OMs have the decency to look completely different than real ones.

>> No.8634475

Readables are good (if tasteful, like everything else), Skacky is good, fake doors that look like real doors are bad but fine otherwise. Put 'em everywhere if you want as long as I can tell the difference.

Also I like the "just passing through" feeling from having only one slice of a building be accessible.

>> No.8634630

>>8634243
I think we have a local autist in these threads who thinks that everyone who doesn't like fake doors that look exactly like real ones wants a map that's an entire city block complete with realistic toilets and perfectly detailed rooms

>> No.8634692

I strongly agree with the notion that fake doors should just be flat textures on brushes.

one of the biggest strengths of the "traditional" thief level design (i.e. the one in the OMs as well as the best FMs) is that levels are detailed but not cluttered. most of the objects can be interacted with in some way (even if it's just by tossing or stacking them). it fits into the general design philosophy of immersive sims.
using actual "object doors" as fake doors adds needless clutter to your level design. you create useless distractions that serve no gameplay function

>> No.8634707

>>8634428
>>8634475
>>8634630
skacky at the very least uses fake doors that don't have handles. Some other FMs don't even do that. Also, for hanging around the dromed discord where he posts from time to time, the person who's most critical of his missions is himself.

>> No.8634949

>>8634707
I have nothing against skacky, I just think fake doors have the potential to be extremely grating in an immersive game like Thief and are a problem to be dismantled and looked at, so they can be improved in future FMs.
It's obvious that their primary objective is making a level feel like a slice of a real place; the play area being a part of a realistic place that could exist in the real life. Adding an exit that would serve people that aren't everywhere-climbing thief-actobats are perfectly acceptable.
However, because Thief is such an immersive game, and has certain interactive objects that practically pop out of the scenery, great care needs to be taken with fake doors because the players' brains have learned throughout the years what these interactive objects look like. The shape and color of the wooden door from Thief is practically burnt into my memory now. Seeing a same looking door that I can't even frob feels deeply disappointing to me.
Feast of Pilgrims is really bad with this, because IIRC it uses the same model with the handle intact. However, I think that the fake doors shouldn't even use the same texture, handle or not, because it can still be misleading looking from afar. I think The Dark Project/Gold had the best idea, and funnily enough it was more on the memory footprint and it being a first, a bit rough entry than a level design decision.

>> No.8634985
File: 9 KB, 184x184, 00a108ead6e68baf3f1de0926c1590cd149623c06173262bc0b7d46d6cf50b42.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8634985

>>8634118
No it's not. I just played Whistling of Gears which was pretty dizzying in it's scale and none of the area's felt like conveniently laid out paths for you to walk through. I'm not really even sure what you're implying I am asking for. All I said is it rips me out of the game when I'm walking across a rooftop, climb into a window and the building is nothing more than a SUSPICIOUSLY CONVENIENTLY laid out hallway to another window and every single door is fake with 0 effort to make the area feel like a place or hide the fact that it's entire purpose is to just get you to the next rooftop.

>> No.8634990

>>8634428
This. Or at the very least don't make it so blatantly obvious the area exists as a glorified hallway.

>> No.8635487
File: 57 KB, 1024x521, 1642285360985.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8635487

>installed OpenAL Soft with HRTF and finally able to turn EAX on
>mfw
By the Builder. This is an entirely new game. I can hear the exact place any taffing guard steps on and in what direction they're walking. If there's a conversation happening in one room and I enter the next one, I'll hear it from the open doorway, not straight through the wall. Enter a big room and be able hear my own footsteps echo.
My only complaint is that with both settings enabled, the SFX in general sounds lower/muffled and I have to really jack up the volume on my computer. Haven't messed around with OpenAL settings or cam_ext configs yet though, that might fix it.

>> No.8635512

>>8634985
Whistling of the gears achieves this by pushing the engine past its limits to the point where you can't even optimize brushes anymore and it isn't even a very good mission aside from the technical aspect. Skacky missions are designed to flow to the main objective, not obsess over random crevices. You go on a thieves highway type route grabbing loot from open windows while you move to the meat of the mission, which is a more fleshed out area.

>> No.8635567

>>8635512
Yeah I'm just saying all the areas in the level being overly conveniently laid out 1-2 room hallways full of fake doors that just point straight to another window rooftops absolutely killed the immersion. It felt like playing Mario 64. At least make an effort to hide it.

>> No.8635580

>>8635487
I get confused when people praise EAX because as far as I can tell EAX is just adding different reverb-type effects and has nothing to do with audio positioning. I never play with EAX on and I have always been able to hear sound coming from windows, open doors, etc. and tell where guards are.

But I've seen various posts saying this akin to this where they changed the sound settings and it was superior so I'm not sure what's happening and what people are really talking about.

>> No.8635591

>>8635567
Yeah his later missions are better, but I think Melan is the king of city missions.

>>8635580
The map maker has to define EAX in specific areas so the quality of it depends on the implementation.

>> No.8635813

>>8635487
>OpenAL settings
If you want to get deep into the 3d sound autism, use this video to find the HRTF table that fits your head shape, then add it to the OpenAL settings
This guy's channel is fucking awesome for /vr/ pc games, by the way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXQp7swp5k

>> No.8636654
File: 54 KB, 374x418, 1614252930103.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8636654

>AI sees me when I can't even see them
>Light gem does not line up with shadows half the time
>AI that hasn't seen/heard me yet gets alerted when I walk on stone to the point I have to treat the whole level like tile
>AI gets caught in infinite loop where it hears a loud noise, looks for me, gives up then gets alerted while I'm standing perfectly still basically AFK
Is there a reason for this? I've been trying to avoid blackjacking guards in fan missions and using it as a last resort but this shit broke me. Mission was Sound of a Burruck in a Room

>> No.8636665

>>8636654
to me it sounds like it might be broken. I had the same issues when I was playing the Night Watch campaign

>> No.8637213
File: 781 KB, 1024x768, dump005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8637213

Why does my mission's lighting look like this?

>> No.8637223

I'm about to start Death's Cold Embrace. Is there anything I should know about before I do or I should just go blind and trust my taffer instincts?

>> No.8637230

>>8637213
What's the issue?

>> No.8637235

>>8637230
The shadows appear too bright, that shadow completely hides the player.

>> No.8637246

>>8637235
Go to Editors -> Mission Variables -> Rendering Parameters and change Ambient Light to something like 14, 14, 14.

>> No.8637247

>>8637223
Check bookshelves for frobbable books, since they're all 3D models, it's harder to spot them.

>>8637235
If you mean you want darker shadows, try tinkering with your ambient lighting settings, the radii of light sources, and brightness settings.

>> No.8637260

>>8637246
>>8637247
It worked, thank you.

>> No.8637296

According to Todd, Thief II Gold was planned to introduce four new levels:

Raid on Willard Square[5], a mission set in the slums, was the furthest along in development of the missions that were to be added in Thief II Gold. Although the developers struggled with finding a way to depict a raid within the confines of the game engine,[6] it was considered to be in a good state.[7] A DromEd map of it survives, featuring what appears to be close to complete level geometry and much more detail than the other leaked maps. It was intended to introduce the player to the City Watch and would likely have been placed between Shipping... and Receiving and Framed.[3] It was being designed by Rob Caminos.[8]
A mission with no known name described by Todd as an "Undercover-like mission"[3] where Garrett could largely roam freely was also planned. It was set in a college. Pagliarulo seemed very pleased with how it was coming along,[9] and a DromEd map of it survives. The map is undetailed but contains enough geometry to give a good idea of what the level's final layout might have looked like. It was being designed by Mike Chrzanowski.[10]
Culture Break[3] was a mission set in a museum. Details are unknown. It is not mentioned in Pagliarulo's journal, although a rough DromEd map survives. The very featureless map provides little indication as to what the plans for the mission might have been.

>> No.8637302

>>8637296
Waking the Dead[11] was to be a horror-themed mission set in the mountains to steal and destroy a tome called the Book of Ash, which had previously been mentioned in a journal in the Thief Gold level The Mage Towers and encountered in the Thief II level Life of the Party. It was to feature necromancers and zombies as enemies. It was in this mission that Garrett would have acquired an envenomed dagger as a new weapon.[12] It was meant to break up the pacing of the late game and would have been unrelated to the overall plot.[13] It may have been placed between Casing the Joint and Masks.[14] It was being designed by Emil Pagliarulo, and a significant portion of his development journal consists of notes and ideas for the level. Thus, although the DromEd files for this mission have been lost, of all the Thief II Gold levels it is the one of which there is the most surviving information as to what the final product might have been like.
In addition, there were plans for a mission titled Fallen Hammers[15] set in an old Hammerite church, although Todd implies this may have been scrapped at some point before Looking Glass Studios was shuttered. It would have provided additional detail on Karras's backstory. Although a build of the level existed at some point before it was canceled,[16] any files related to this mission have been lost. It may have been placed between Masks and Sabotage at Soulforge.[17]

>> No.8637348

>>8637302
In addition to new levels, Thief II Gold would also have contained an updated version of Framed from Thief II. The full extent of the changes is unknown, but would have included visual upgrades. A surviving DromEd map contains upgraded textures and geometry changes.

>> No.8637503

bros how do I disable texture filtering again google isn't helping me

>> No.8637680

>>8637503
Step 1: Stop being a homogay that disables texture filtering in games past 1996. Even SS1 had texture filtering.

>> No.8637690

>>8637680
but I like the way it looks in Thief 1 :-)

>> No.8637742

>>8637503
Open cam_ext.cfg and search "tex_filter_trilinear", add a semicolon at the start of the line. I also recommend increasing the FOV from 90 to 100, but you can change it to your liking, experiment with it.
Unfiltered chads stay winning.

>> No.8639250

Would you have a pet Burrick?

>> No.8639525
File: 306 KB, 1600x1200, ws_Thief__Deadly_Shadows_1600x1200.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8639525

>>8637296
>>8637302
Really good, bros... But remember that in the alternate universe where thief made a ton of success and we got thief 2 gold, a proper TLG Thief 3 is also the same universe where everybody tries to copy it and make shittty and soulless ripoffs that make people lose a bit of interest in the stealth genre

>> No.8639530
File: 108 KB, 640x480, t1-sketch-burrick.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
8639530

>>8639250
probably not. they look disgusting in the artwork

>> No.8639602

>>8639525
Woth it
The timeline we're in already has Thiaf and 3, a proper 3rd installment and 2 Gold are worth it to me