/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.8592529]

Why did he think he was Zack? To this day I still don't get it.

[Anonymous No.8592535]

because he was a loser and he wanted to be a badass I.E Zack.

[Anonymous No.8592540]

>>8592529

The Mako did it.

[Anonymous No.8592545]

>>8592535

But the real Cloud in the flaahback is 100x more badass than Zack who Sephiroth easily stomps.

[Anonymous No.8592563]

I swear the entire Zach/Cloud/Tifa revelation is so poorly handled in the PS1 game I can only assume it was a translation error. Go back and play that shit and try to think about what is going on using only the info that's given to you in game. Same for sephiroth and jenova, like who is controlling who? Are they one being now?

Has anyone done a translation that doesn't kill the soul but clears up some translation issues?

[Anonymous No.8592565]

>>8592563
FF7's translation is notoriously too cookie cutter and omits important information.

[Anonymous No.8592578]

>>8592529

He was embarrassed Soldier rejected him so he stole Zack's identity and accomplishments. The Mako in the Shinra basement and Sephiroth's telepathic meddling from the North Crater made him actually believe his delusions were true.

[Anonymous No.8592636]

Why do people have difficulties with the story? Even with the translation it is very easy to understand. Cloud projects onto Zack because he is a failure.

[Anonymous No.8592648]

>>8592529
Zack was his role model
Zack got into S.O.L.D.I.E.R was charismatic, easy going and was working side by side with Sephiroth (who Cloud admired)
being poisoned with Mako made him into a vegetable, after he recovered his sense he coulnd't remember anything about him, so with the help of the Jenova's cell he just made up his memories for what he wanted to be (Zack) and, again, thanks tocthe Jenova's cell he manipulated the memories of those around him to fit his narrative

[Anonymous No.8592653]

>>8592563
I had absolutely no idea what was going on when I played FFVII, I just liked the mechanics and music.

[Anonymous No.8592657]

>>8592565
FF7's script is notoriously too cookie cutter and omits important information.
fixed.

[Anonymous No.8592663]

>>8592657
peepeepoopoo

[Anonymous No.8592667]

>>8592563
Jenova had the power to manipulate the minds of people, in the ancient writtings they said that Jenova crashed from space and took the form of their dead friends and brothers, that's how she works, she can see throught peoples memories/mind and change them to her likeness, even taking the form of what she wants, and Cloud was a succesfull experiment who could withstand the Jenova cells inside him, and that gave him the ability to alter peoples memories
someone would say to him "hey wtf man i haven't seen you since 4 years ago"
and Cloud could reply "we just met yesterday"
then the other person would think "no way man, or did we?.. Oh yeah i guess we did!"
that's exactly what happened to Tifa, she doubted Cloud's words at first but then accepted them because of Jenova, we can see this happens too in the flashback when Tifa finds Cloud laying on the train station
those memories broke when Jenova herself (or sephiroth) decided to "break" the lie by telling them what really happened, since she (or he, if it was Sephiroth) has the original power to alter people's mind
as for if it was Sephiroth or Jenova i couldn't say
BUT
i think it was Jenova for the first half of the game, after you free Sephiroth from the Mako then he takes over
i say this because Sephiroth didn't know about Cloud (you wouldn't forget the face of the person who killed you) and every time he appears is when a Jenova part is near, and he dissapears leaving said Jenova part behind as a boss, you can take this as Sephiroth' true form, or maybe he is controlling Jenova from the Mako, who knows
all of this i took from playing the Ps1 game btw
it took me like 4 to 5 play throught to reach these conclusion and reading a lot of side in-game text
it was done confusing in purpose and i kinda like it that way, since every time i play it i learn something new

[Anonymous No.8592668]

>>8592545
That's the point. Cloud was insanely insecure despite being perfectly capable in his own right. His constant comparisons to others made him so self-conscious he couldn't be comfortable in his own skin until he finally broke out of that at the endgame. His reward was more self confidence and Tifa riding his dick.

[Anonymous No.8592683]

>>8592535
What's great about FFVII is how it nailed the tryhard attitude of insecure people.Zack is shown to be the chillest motherfucker but when Cloud tries to imitate him he doesn't see that part of him and instead opts for a stereotypical badass attitude that both Aeris and Tifa see through right away because of how transparent it is. This is actually something Remake does very well because the voice acting carries the tone insanely well. If you listen to Cloud explaining SOLDIER to Aerith on their way to Sector 5 he sounds like a tool.

[Anonymous No.8592691]

>>8592563
>Same for sephiroth and jenova, like who is controlling who? Are they one being now?
This plot point is way better when left ambiguous and the more it's explained the less interesting it is. Did Sephiroth dominate a John Carpenter's The Thing world devourer with his incredible will? Why then is his end goal similar to what Jenova wanted in the first place? The fun is in wondering.

[Anonymous No.8592704]

>>8592529
Sephiroth told him to

[Anonymous No.8592737]

>>8592563
Part of the problem is that Tifa is super shy and skittish and the game is very subtle about her having a problem with Cloud's account of events because, frankly, he recounts it with such confidence that's it's basically gaslighting. If you watch Tifa's date a the Gold Saucer she tries to talk to Cloud about something and says "Aeris would know how to say this better" or something. You're meant to think she's trying to make a love confession but what she's really doing is mustering the courage to confront Cloud about his bullshit.

Another problem is that the game's graphics are too rudimentary to really convey what's happening with Sephiroth and Jenova. As a kid I always thought that Sephiroth would show up, taunt you, and then a boss fight would start because that's just what's supposed to happen at the end of a dungeon. Either that or Sephiroth was siccing a monster on you as a parting gift. What was actually happening was all those failed clones were being taken over by Sephiroth to serve as a body and once it served it's purpose Sephiroth released it to Jenova which mutated it Resident Evil style into the boss. Visually though it doesn't play out that way in the game. You just see Sephiroth fly away and *boom* boss fight.

The game kind of explains this once you get to the reunion stuff but that's so deep into the game at that point it's hard to recognize it's related to all the stuff you've seen already.

[Anonymous No.8592740]

>>8592529

>Hey Tifa you know that memory you have of Sephiroth and that black haired Soldier guy arriving in Nibelheim. That was actually me!!!

Why didn't she say anything?

[Anonymous No.8592756]

>>8592691
>Why then is his end goal similar to what Jenova wanted in the first place?
i think i can kinda answer this
Sephiroth got convinced that Jenova was an ancient, and that their goal was to reach the promised land, he thought that he himself was an ancient too and got pissed at what Shinra was doing (kept Jenova in captivity and using her to experiment) he then started hearing his "mom" talk to him, probably Jenova's own genes inside him, and she used this to manipulate him even further
Sephiroth wanted to fullfill the will of his people, not knowing that the "promised land" is just a way of speak the ancient had to refer to "dying" like we say 'i die and go to heaven" the ancient believed that when they died, they returned to the earth, to the lifestream and then resurrected
Sephiroth wanted to be one with the lifestream, and to do so he wanted something so destructive that would force the planet to reveal it's core, not knowing that it was Jenova who was manipulating him into getting her there so she could devour it and then move on to another planet, like the parasitic lifeform she is

[Anonymous No.8592772]

>>8592691
Sephiroth's goal makes a lot more sense when you realize that in the early phases of development he was intended to be Aerith's brother. You can even see vestigial remnants of this in their designs since they have very similar hairstyles. Sephiroth actually being an Ancient would make his logic connect better. "The world belonged to the Ancients. I'm an Ancient. Therefore the world is rightfully mine. Smash Meteor, absorb the planet's healing power, become a God as I deserve." Things got a little weird in the final version because now his plan hinges on him just plain being wrong about Jenova's origins and that Jenova isn't an Ancient like Shinra believed but instead John Carpenter's The Thing that they sealed away and nearly went extinct in the process.

[Anonymous No.8592778]

>>8592756

>we're going to conquer the earth and use all of its energy by...destroying it with a meteor!!!

Makes perfect sense. I think Sephiroth's "motivation" is that he's just old fashioned comic book crazy. That's literally it.

[Anonymous No.8592783]

>>8592740
Because her nature is shy and timid compared to Aerith's assertiveness. The game deliberately undermines your expectations of character personalities throughout the game. So while Tifa doesn't know how to talk to Cloud about it, Aerith is constantly pushing him to "show me the real you" because while she doesn't know exactly what's going on with him, she sure as hell can tell he's full of shit.

[Anonymous No.8592791]

>>8592756
It's pretty bonkers that FFVII just straight up duplicated Chrono Trigger's storyline for one of the main villains.

[Anonymous No.8592792]

>>8592778
>>we're going to conquer the earth and use all of its energy by...destroying it with a meteor!!
but that's wrong? who the fuck said anything about conquer? lmao
Jenova wanted to feed on the lifestream/mako, and leave the earth like a lifeless husk to feed on another planet
Sephiroth was manipulated to think of a better life if he gets to fuse with the lifestream
if you didn't pay attention to the game at least pay attention to the post you quoted

[Anonymous No.8592803]

>>8592783

Did Sephiroth during his 5 year sleep in the lifestream at the Northern Crater come to realize Jenova wasn't actually his mother nor was she an Ancient?

[Anonymous No.8592809]

>>8592740
>Why didn't she say anything?
the host of Jenova's cell (Cloud) has the same ability as her to manipulated the mind of everyone around her
even if Tifa knew it was bullshit, Jenova was able to alter her memories into beliving what Cloud was saying
the game tells you this and even shows it to you on a flashback

[Anonymous No.8592814]

>>8592540

this. literally every headscratchers, absurdity, plothole, and inconsistency can be explained with the phrase "the mako did it". it's like zenkai in dragon ball z. anytime something doesnt make sense "THE ZENKAI DID IT!!!". "YOU JUST DONT UNDERSTAND THE SUPER DEEP WRITING!!!"

[Anonymous No.8592818]

>>8592803
He may have been too far gone at that point? It's hard to tell but he also seems to harbor a particular grudge against Cloud for throwing him over a railing so maybe that doesn't even matter to him anymore. In Remake at least he engages in some very clever indirect warfare to get Cloud to do what he needs him to do in order to get a second bite at the apple though so he might just be in for a penny in for a pound once he's effectively "killed." What else is he going to do at that point?

[Anonymous No.8592826]

>>8592809

What possible benefit could it be to Sephiroth and Jenova to trick Cloud into thinking he played Zack's role during the Nibelheim incident? Or was this done solely just to mess with him?

[Anonymous No.8592830]

>>8592803
we never get to know
Sephiroth after the Mako crater don't get to talk or tease anyone anymore
>>8592818
this about Sephiroth having a grudge against Cloud after the mako crater i noticed it too
before he didn't even know who he was and treated him like a "clone" but after that event he remembered it? i guess this does give more weight to the theory that Sephiroth at the first half of the game is just Jenova using his image

[Anonymous No.8592832]

>>8592540
>>8592814
>note to self: always employ a macguffin in long convoluted stories

[Anonymous No.8592840]

>>8592814

likewise in chrono trigger theories. anytime there's something tough to explain "the entity did it".

[Anonymous No.8592841]

>>8592826
I don't think Sephiroth is responsible for that part of Cloud's loopiness outside of the indirect connection that both of them were heavily exposed to Mako and Mako exposure is...not healthy. It's just that Cloud is one of many bodies that Sephiroth has some control over but proves to be uniquely resistant compared to the "this guy are sick" types. Cloud just happens to be in a weird situation where he's both useful to Sephiroth and also a threat which means Sephiroth goes back and forth trying to take him over and trying to kill him.

[Anonymous No.8592853]

>>8592830
The reason I have a problem with the Jenova is in complete control angle is that there doesn't seem to be a reason why it would even bother using Sephiroth's image. Sephiroth isn't any more important to Jenova than any other person. I suppose it could be argued that it picked Sephiroth because it knows how important Sephiroth is to everybody else but the game doesn't go into how intelligent Jenova is.

[Anonymous No.8592870]

>>8592826
that was all in Cloud
Cloud was poisoned by the Mako and became an "empty vessel" for Jenova (just like those hooded guys) Cloud was different because he was able to regain conciense and his own will, the reason of this and why he "became" Zack was problably the shock of seeing his role model, his idol, dying in front of him
so when Tifa finds Cloud laying on the train station and starts to ask him questions, he just says the last things he heard
he heard Zack talking about what they wanted to do, the way he talked, how he wanted to become a mercenary alongside Cloud, etc
probably the only reason why he doesn't call himself Zack but still calls himself Cloud is because when Tifa found him the first thing she did was call him for his real name

[Anonymous No.8592894]

>>8592853
yeah that's true
i guess Sephiroth is kind of a legend in the world of FFVII
everyone in shinra was scared shitless when Sephiroth first appears in the building
now that i think about it
it's probably because of the hooded figures isn't it?
Jenova needs Sephiroth to call meteor and wound the planet
and to free Sephiroth she needs one of her clones to do so (the hooded figures or Cloud)
i guess it makes sense for her to take the form of the person she wants them to free

[Anonymous No.8592939]

I forget, how exactly did the Ancients stop Jenova?

[Anonymous No.8592958]

>>8592939

Some kind of piccolo evil containment wave that killed 99% of them. The few survivors mixed with humans and lost their magical abilities. Ifalna was the last surviving Ancient. Was she living in the forgotten capital when Gast met her?

[Anonymous No.8592967]

>>8592939
most of them died
but the few survivors managed to imprison her on that "doll jenova" thing on the crater
the Cetras, unlike human, were pretty powerfull and capable of using magic without materia, so i guess they were able to put quite the fight once they figured the true nature of Jenova

[Anonymous No.8592995]

I don't think it's possible for Jenova to have been in complete control because if that were the case it wouldn't have known to try to stop Aerith from summoning Holy. Hell, it wouldn't have had any reason to know that the black materia was useful either. That all had to come from Sephiroth.

[Anonymous No.8593040]

nanomachines

[Anonymous No.8593067]

>>8592565
Any good fan translations out there?

[Anonymous No.8593078]

>>8593067

get good and learn japanese ya simp

[Anonymous No.8593085]

>>8592668
based FF7 understander

[Anonymous No.8593138]

>>8592995
if remember correctly
there's a part in the ancient ruins where Aerith starts to hear the voice's of the planet thanks to the lifestream
at that moment the real Sephiroth appears, saying his consience is now flowing throught the lifestream and he aquired all the knowledge from the Cetras, so that's when he learned about holy and the black materia
i think both Sephiroth and Jenova were working together, i don't think one was in control of the other

[Anonymous No.8593141]

>>8592667
What a confusing mishmash pretentious schlock fest. I have always had this attitude towards the game>>8592653

[Anonymous No.8593159]

>>8593141
>pretentious schlock fest
there's nothing pretentious about it, confusing? yes, because the game doesn't outright explain things to you but the presentation isn't pretentious at all, most of the game are silly interactions between characters, it doesn't beat into your head how "smart" it is
but to each their own, music and gameplay alone is enough reason for anyone to enjoy a game even if they don't get sucked in by the story

[Anonymous No.8593165]

>>8593085
For such a popular game FFVII is weirdly underrated. I think it's partially because it was a lot of people's first RPG so a lot of the misdirection that would have worked on more seasoned genre aficionados didn't register. Like it was actually a very big deal for the badass hero to turn out to be one of the faceless mooks you've been beating up all game. RPG players at the time would have just taken for granted a lot of the cliches that FFVII establishes only to decimate later on.

[Anonymous No.8593190]

>>8592668
The reason this flies over so many people's heads is that it's easier to process when you're an adult since it touches on matters of emotional maturity that, frankly, most people who played the game hadn't yet reached.

[Anonymous No.8593198]

>>8592814
Or how every time they are badly damaged and need a way to come back from the brink, "oh look a senzu bean! Great" to save them from sure death every single time.

[Anonymous No.8593312]

>>8592809
Oh man haha what if he was like "I'm your bf and it's time for my daily paizuri" just as a joke haha

[Anonymous No.8593620]

>>8592563
esl? It made perfect sense to me the first time i played when I was 14.

[Anonymous No.8593675]

Best friend
Lived the life cloud dreamt of

As for cloud stomping seph
He didn't
He pushed him into mako
When he was bloodlusted and seph was distracted and already stabbed

And, it's entirely possible cloud could have made it into soldier by fighting ability but due to his personality he was knocked down in his military career

[Anonymous No.8593710]

Did Tifa always love Cloud?

[Anonymous No.8593742]

>>8593710
She seemed to be crushing on him as kids. At least they were close enough for her to have a pretty personal conversation with him specifically despite her being popular with all the boys in town.

[Anonymous No.8593756]

>>8593620
This.
The only thing that was confusing to younger me was Hojo spouting that Cloud is a "clone" of Sephiroth. Later playthroughs I realized he meant in a metaphorical sense of a clone, not a literal one. Also, Tifa couldn't call Cloud out on his bullshit because she's a calculated person and didn't have conclusive evidence UNTIL she was helping Cloud recounting events and regathering himself in the Lifestream.

As for this overdone "LE WHO WAS IN CONTROL" meme, it's plain as day that it's Sephi with his 5g tower anime nonsense and Jenova's nothing but a mimic in form, not intelligence, based Gast's interview with Ifalna. Even as an illiterate tard I could gather that based on the in-game scenes with Jenovaroth and the FMVs. Jenova was just a means to an end for Sephi's goals. TL;DR Dumb thread, learn to read then play/watch the game again.

[Anonymous No.8593797]

>>8593756
Yeah the clone language was confusing because it depends on recognizing that Hojo didn't consider Sephiroth a person. That's not unusual since Hojo doesn't consider anyone a person. He's a nut even by Shinra's standards. But he meant "clone" as in "replicate the process that created Sephiroth" rather than "clone" as in Dolly the sheep. Honestly its kind of weird that Shinra even put up with him. They're a utility company at the heart of it, interested in expanding their influence and financial control. Why they'd allow this obvious maniac to screw around with an alien in a jar and then be like "I want to make the girl we kidnapped fuck this dog I found" is bizarre.

[Anonymous No.8594905]

>>8593756
ArchidanMiiverse is terrible comic illustrator

[Anonymous No.8596413]

>>8592529
PTSD and denial, he's probably the first vidya protagonist to suffer PTSD.

[Anonymous No.8596538]

>>8592668
Based, especially fucking Tifa under the shadow of the Highwind on the eve of battle.

[Anonymous No.8596793]

>>8593797
I guess they're willing to let Hojo do whatever the fuck he wants because he did get results with the SOLDIER program. It's not really clear how many actual members there are and we only meet a whole two of them throughout the game but it seems like Sephiroth almost singlehandedly kicked Wutai's ass in what was prior to that a pretty drawn out war. So it makes some sense that the Shinra execs would tell Hojo "more of that, please" and then look the other way.

>>8593675
Cloud couldn't have made it into SOLDIER because, like everyone else, he didn't realize that they were being fucked with by Hojo. He was embarrassed about washing out but at the time he didn't know that it was never a real thing to begin with. His sense of inadequacy was based on a lie. It'd be like being a natural bodybuilder and trying to compete with roided monsters. But then he threw one of those roided monsters over a railing, which piqued Hojo's interest.

[Anonymous No.8597672]

>>8592648
It’s not explained anywhere that he manipulates memories of other people around him. If I remember even Tifa is aware he is saying bullshit at some moments but she doesn’t tell him to not hurt him and because Cloud is so sure of himself when he is telling his stories.

[Anonymous No.8597984]

Jenova makes more sense to me as a kind of mass effect reaper indoctrination

The better question is, did seph ever stand a chance if he had a jenova virus influencing him since birth.... Was he hearing voices, did he chalk it up to mental illness.

It seems like during the nibelheim flashback he didn't just lose the plot, it was more of a penny drop moment where everything he had gone through made more sense

Sephiroth (before the bishi retcon faggotry ) is the most tragic of villains. indoctrinated since birth, mentally strong enough to still keep some semblance of self until he realised *he* was the product of the jenova experiments

He rose to the status of master chief, ending a bloody painful war himself and was thought of like big boss. Zack and cloud fangirl around their hero... You can only imagine the day cloud woke up to find his mother and home destroyed by the man he idolized.

[Anonymous No.8597995]

>>8592778
He doesn't want to conquer it. He explicitly states he wants to damage the planet with meteor to absorb all the mako energy it's going to try and use to repair itself. I doubt Jenova or Sephiroth give a single fuck about the people living on the planet.

[Anonymous No.8598361]

>>8597984
He was aloof but seemed like a nice enough guy. When he first learned he was a Hojo experiment in the reactor he had a fairly reasonable reaction. That would freak anyone out. It was only when he isolated himself and started reading everything in the mansion that, in his grief, he started going all misanthropic and megalomaniacal based on the belief that Jenova, and therefore he, was an Ancient and entitled to the planet since they were its original stewards and present day humans clearly don't know what the fuck they're doing.

[Anonymous No.8598365]

Where did Cloud get the SOLDIER outfit from if he never was a part of it?

[Anonymous No.8598384]

>>8598365
The only explanation is that he robbed Zack's dead body. Which is incredibly fucked up.

[Anonymous No.8598410]

>>8598365
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PD-xq1k6MQ
Zack gives him a spare one when they escape from the lab.
>>8598384
retard.

[Anonymous No.8598448]

>>8598410
I didnt even know that was a scene in the game. Damn.

[Anonymous No.8599169]

>>8592737
>You're meant to think she's trying to make a love confession but what she's really doing is mustering the courage to confront Cloud about his bullshit.
I mean it's also a love confession, let's be fair. She's been head over heels for him for years

[Anonymous No.8599184]

>>8592756
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the ending screen implying that the promised land ironically is Midgar? Just a Midgar retaken by nature.

[Anonymous No.8599203]

>>8597984
>Sephiroth (before the bishi retcon faggotry ) is the most tragic of villains. indoctrinated since birth, mentally strong enough to still keep some semblance of self until he realised *he* was the product of the jenova experiments
I'd still give it to Kuja considering the entire point of his existence is to die and be replaced and his characterization is actually the story of a man who desperately wants to live and finds purpose in that

[Anonymous No.8599226]

>>8593141
I agree, most games by Square in the late 90s were like this despite some of them actually being good. I always thought FF7 was absurdly overrated and it was as though nobody even wanted to try to understand what the fucking plot was because they were too busy sucking its dick.

[Anonymous No.8599247]

>>8592529
went into shock from seeing Zack murdered before his eyes and assumed his identity.

[Anonymous No.8599252]

>>8592563
I think the Sephiroth/Jenova business is intentionally ambiguous. Does Sephiroth even know?

[Anonymous No.8599281]

>>8598410
I remember the latter part of this scene, but not the escape part.

[Anonymous No.8599304]

>>8593620
>>8593756
Have you ever wondered if the reason you didn't notice anything was wrong wasn't because it had no problems, but because you just don't have a discerning eye?

[Anonymous No.8599380]

>>8599184
you can see it that way and it would make sense too.
the Cetras believed that, after their journey healing the planet ends, they'll find the promised land, a land of happiness
you can take this as the promised land being a healed planet full of life
Shinra thought the promised land was a place full of mako
and Sephiroth thought it was being one with the lifestream (which is what Jenova told him, she wanted to eat the lifestream)
in the end it might only be a Cetra's myth or just a healed land
and for the ending, i always took it as proof of what Bugenhagen said to Cloud was true
that technology and nature can coexist, that they can find a way to use tecnology without Mako (like he does in Cosmo Canyon)
and seeing Midgar taken over by nature is proof of that.
Well it's left that way on purpose, it's open for interpretation

[Anonymous No.8599382]

>>8599380
>that technology and nature can coexist, that they can find a way to use tecnology without Mako
Which is funny because AC's answer to that is oil and natural gas

[Anonymous No.8599540]

>>8599169
It's meant to be ambiguous but if you watch it after knowing the real story it reads totally differently. It comes off as less "I want to say I love you" and more "I love you and therefore we have to have this difficult conversation." Invoking Aeris was a clever bit of misdirection because it makes you think she's referencing the supposed love triangle (which you eventually find out wasn't even a thing) but what she's really doing is pointing out that Aeris is a lot more assertive.

https://youtu.be/Skm5p3r-JcA?t=236

[Anonymous No.8599565]

>>8599382
Which is funny because Mako is really just an allegory for oil and natural gas. It's fundamentally an episode of Captain Planet with a little bit of Godzilla mixed in. Being like "well we can use this other non-renewable resource that doesn't happen to be everybody's soul or whatever" undermines the entire story.

[Anonymous No.8599571]

By the way, am I the only one who grew up pronouncing Mako like the shark and struggle to this day to say it as mah-ko?

[Anonymous No.8599613]

It's actually pretty amazing how great FFVII is while also being hilariously unoriginal. Not that the previous FFs have been known for their creativity but FFVII just steals everything wholesale. It's the setting of Blade Runner, the corporation from Robocop, the monsters from The Thing and Godzilla, the power from The Shining...

[Anonymous No.8599695]

>>8599304
>but because you just don't have a discerning eye?
Explain, because when I was finally able to read, it's quite clear the narrative Square was feeding players. Thinking there's any deeper interpretation to it (besides the ending) is just ignoring critical story context in the dialogue.

[Anonymous No.8599803]

>>8599571
I used to say "Make - Oh" because to me it read like the word "Make" minus the E.

It's strange, since I always pronounced Yuffie's name correctly as "You - Fee" and found it weird when people said is as "Yuh - Fee", emphasizing the U as "UH" like "Huh, But, Under" and not how the letter is actually pronounced. But let's be real: Written English IS confusing and retarded. Silent letters and all.

[Anonymous No.8600374]

>>8599382
>>8599565
Isn't that what Barrett did for a living before losing his arm and before Marlene's father died? Wasn't he a coal miner or something?

[Anonymous No.8600386]

>>8599571
I always knew it was Mah-ko but that's because I knew that Japanese vowel sounds are only capable of being pronounced one way

[Anonymous No.8600392]

>>8599803
>It's strange, since I always pronounced Yuffie's name correctly as "You - Fee" and found it weird when people said is as "Yuh - Fee"
That's one of those things where I guess by coincidence everyone said her name correctly.

[Anonymous No.8600398]

>>8600374
He lived in a coal town, I don't know if he himself was a miner

[Anonymous No.8600443]

One weird thing about FFVII is that Weapon is quickly dispatched by Shinra when the revelation of it's existence is treated like a big fucking deal. This problem is softened a bit when Emerald and Ruby were added to the game but the main one, the one retroactively named Sapphire Weapon, you barely see do anything.

[Anonymous No.8600448]

>>8600443
It took a giant fucking cannon to the face at point blank, I'm not surprised it died instantly.

[Anonymous No.8600513]

>>8600448
>>8600443
The weapons seem to have fairly rudimentary intelligence, and wouldn't even know what a cannon is, thus don't know it's stupid to walk into one.

[Anonymous No.8600542]

>>8599613
>corporation from Robocop
But the head of the corporation in Robocop was actually a decent man who was saved from the bad guy by Robocop. Also Shinra didn't fund Avalanche. Did you watch Robocop or play FF7?

[Anonymous No.8600556]

>>8600448
>>8600513
No I get why the cannon killed it I just think it was weird that it happened so quickly without Weapon even accomplishing anything or factoring into the story more. It looks super imposing when you first see it sealed away and the revelation of it's existence is a big fucking deal. Then all it does is attack Junon and get shot in the face.

Come to think of it the Weapons have a weird narrative presence in general. Let's ignore Ruby and Emerald for a minute because they were all added in later. But the game still treats Sapphire Weapon as if it's the only one and just calls it "Weapon." Then it escapes and Diamond and Ultimate just kinda show up too. I get the gimmick there. A sea monster, a land monster, and a sky monster. But you'd think they would have A) written the three into the story more concretely rather than make Diamond and Ultimate seem like afterthoughts, and B) let them do more than just get shot by Shinra. In the original Japanese version you only get to fight Ultimate while the other two don't do shit. The only point they serve is that by shooting Diamond Weapon Shinra conveniently opens up the barrier over the North Crater.

[Anonymous No.8600638]

>>8600556
>The only point they serve is that by shooting Diamond Weapon Shinra conveniently opens up the barrier over the North Crater.
They were aiming for the crater's barrier to begin with, Diamond Weapon decided to get in the way.

[Anonymous No.8600656]

>>8592529
It's bad writing. The writers misunderstood how mental illness works and didn't care either way.

[Anonymous No.8600659]

>>8592691
Yeah, when you think about it, some bad plots can be so much better in your imagination. The banal truth is that Sephiroth did the "I wanna be this world's god lmaooo" schtick because the writer was onto something at some point but lost it completely.

[Anonymous No.8600686]

>>8592529
He believed he was a real SOLDIER and anyone who told him that he'll never be a real SOLDIER was wrong and is just a bigot.

[Anonymous No.8600703]

>>8599565
Mako is a allegory for nuclear energy

[Anonymous No.8600708]

The only thing I'm still confused about to this day is the identity of the voice in Cloud's head when he has some of his episodes. Like the "Watch out! This isn't a normal reactor!" Is that Zack's voice? Cloud's real self? Also...what's not normal about the reactor in the first place?

[Anonymous No.8600736]

>>8600708
Pretty sure that's Reeve.

[Anonymous No.8600747]

For a while I had an interpretation that Cloud was a literal clone of Zack with manufactured memories that were meant to help him retain his sanity by having a personal identity. The whole “failed clone” aspect is evident by his appearance, which is similar to Zack’s except for the wild, off-color hair.

Obviously this is not canon, but I sometimes like to imagine how the story could have unfolded if that were true.

[Anonymous No.8600835]

>>8600708
As a kid I thought it was a figment of Zack in his mind.
Years later I figure it's Cloud's real self in his subconscious to some degree melded with a bit of Zack's persona. There's that line "We got by with just scrapped knees back then" after falling through the church, makes me think that was a callback to Cloud's childhood further proving it's Cloud taking to himself. The reactor line is wonky, but maybe the translation was suppose to be something like "Head's up! This one's different!" since the majority of reactors had no security other than Midgar's and the underwater one.

[Anonymous No.8601010]

>>8592778

...what the fuck, he wanted to make the planet "bleed" using the meteor

never talked about destroying it

it makes sense you just didnt understand anything

[Anonymous No.8602480]

>>8600736
How would it be Reeve?

[Anonymous No.8602498]

>>8600708
It’s his real, dorky self talking to him.

[Anonymous No.8602568]

>>8600835
This is confirmed in Remake because we actually see Cloud floating in a white void while another Cloud speaks to him and drops the "We got by with just scraped knees back then" line.

[Anonymous No.8603034]

>>8592563
there is a translation project called "beacause" which is supposed to be pretty accurate.
oddly, i have it on a patched psx rom but can't find that version with a quick google search, instead there is a patch which includes it for the steam version here https://ff7.live/index.html

[Anonymous No.8603168]

Was the translation actually bad or was it just a handful of typos like 'this guy are sick'? I don't remember much in terms of mistranslated plot points.

[Anonymous No.8603374]

>>8602568
>Remake

We’re talking about FF7, not low effort fanfiction wankery

[Anonymous No.8603378]

>>8603168
Yes it was bad, they get a lot of the tone wrong

[Anonymous No.8603450]

>>8603374
Remake actually nails a ton of stuff. The characters' personalities are a flawless recreation of what they were like in the original. I walked in expecting Advent Children and Kingdom Hearts crap but they really did a great job.

[Anonymous No.8603451]

>>8603378
That so? Anything major you remember?

[Anonymous No.8603456]

>>8603378
That so? Any good examples you can think of? I usually don't bother with retranslations because these fan translators tend to wank over how many Japan-isms they force into the text but I might give it a try if there's a big enough difference.

[Anonymous No.8603474]

You guys know crisis core really explains almost everything right?

[Anonymous No.8603482]

>>8603474
Nobody wants to play Crisis Core.

[Anonymous No.8603591]

>>8603450
Remake did characterization well and expanded story beats decently, but the overarching plot with time ghosts shit all over those improvements. It's almost worse that those good qualities are stuck with that plot now. It's a tease of what could have been the remake everyone always wanted. If it was the original plot with each area expanded with new side content, properly fleshed out cutscenes and the same kind of characterizing, it would have actually been a great remake. Having alternate universe/dimensions and/or time travel in a plot is a big fat copout because no matter what happens to the characters, they can just undo it by going back in time or by pulling a duplicate character out of some alternate universe/timeline. All the stakes and tension are gone. Plot holes can litter it and a single bullshit portal can change all of it. No one remains dead. Any failures can be undone and they can deviate completely from the origin now to the point that it is no longer a remake. It's just some alternate fan fiction basically.

[Anonymous No.8603647]

>>8603591
>Any failures can be undone and they can deviate completely from the origin now to the point that it is no longer a remake.
It was never a remake. Well, actually it was in a meta sense. But it being Mortal Kombat 9 on the sneak was clearly the intent. It seeming like a straight remake instead of a sequel was deliberate misdirection.

[Anonymous No.8603724]

>>8603591
I couldn't agree more. I'm the one who brought up the remake in the first place and I agree that the ghosts were stupid. I only brought it up because we get actual confirmation about who and what the voice in Cloud's head is.
But the characterizations and whatnot really added to the original, it's just unfortunate that they weren't included in a 1:1 remake which would probably be FFVII but with updated graphics, cutscenes and voice acting while retaining everything else that we love about the original.

[Anonymous No.8604438]

>>8592894
>>8592853
Interviews with the staff of the game have confirmed that Sephiroth's will won out over Jenova's where applicable. The biggest in game hint is, as people suggest, Jenova taking the form of Sephiroth. Ultimately though Word of God came into play so the matter is settled.

[Anonymous No.8604491]

>>8599613
Congrats on being the most retarded post I've seen here today.
You should watch Blade Runner, it's a pretty nice movie

[Anonymous No.8604502]

>>8603482
It’s worth checking out if you want to know more about Zack.

[Anonymous No.8604614]

>>8603474
crisis core lore is fucking trash and anything other than the original game is not canon

[Anonymous No.8604678]

>>8603724
I'm actually glad they didn't make it a 1:1 remake because the expanded content really screws with the story's pacing and the larger areas with more hustle and bustle alters the tone. The slums actually look kind of charming and sunny now instead of depressing. It turning out that those differences are actually plot relevant rather than consequences of the game's genre shift is actually pretty brilliant.

[Anonymous No.8604684]

>>8604491
If you're suggesting Blade Runner didn't influence Midgar you have to be the retarded one.

[Anonymous No.8604719]

I honestly don't care about Zack and whether or not Cloud basically stole his persona from him, Cloud's character development was amazing considering how complex he is and that it was the Mako/Jenova/Sephiroth messing with him. Somehow Cloud turning out to be a regular dude that wasn't in SOLDIER becoming that powerful was infinitely more interesing than Zack.

[Anonymous No.8604814]

Did Yuffie serve any purpose in the greater narrative or was she just there for fapbait?

[Anonymous No.8604986]

>>8604814
>fapbait
what the fuck

[Anonymous No.8604996]

>>8604986
not that anon but most of us were younger than her when we played it. i was 8 and she was my girl.

[Anonymous No.8605004]

>>8604986
She's got a LOT of hentai. Not as much as Tifa or Aeris, but it's there

[Anonymous No.8605518]

>>8604814
She's from Wutai, the place Shinra fought a war against before the start of the game. So she serves to link your party to that region.

[Anonymous No.8605915]

>>8599571
>Mako like the shark
>like the shark
Boy, am I about to fuck your day up.
https://maoridictionary.co.nz/search?idiom=&phrase=&proverb=&loan=&histLoanWords=&keywords=mako

click the little speaker icon

[Anonymous No.8605932]

>>8604986
hownew.ru

[Anonymous No.8605989]

>>8605915
What the fuck...

[Anonymous No.8606000]

>>8604996
no i get it
Yuffie is cemented as my all time waifu doesn't matter how old i get
but i wouldn't call her design fapbait
like, Tifa IS fapbait but Yuffie? i'd say her design is the complete opposite (and no, fanart doesn't count, i'm talking about her in-game model and art)

[Anonymous No.8606029]

>>8603591
> If it was the original plot with each area expanded with new side content, properly fleshed out cutscenes and the same kind of characterizing, it would have actually been a great remake.
It was never going to be an actual remake, you can find interviews of them saying years and years ago that there'd be no point in just doing again the same game they already did. No one would've misunderstood the title if they went full Anno and called it Final Fantasy 7.77: You Can (Not) ReMake
>All the stakes and tension are gone. Plot holes can litter it and a single bullshit portal can change all of it.
Did you not beat the game? Because the entire point of the ending is they don't have the ghosts as a get out of jail card anymore, they destroyed them.

[Anonymous No.8606032]

>>8604814
She was originally just going to be straight up cut content from what I can tell but they just put her in halfassedly.

[Anonymous No.8606037]

>>8604719
I don't know, when Cloud's head is finally fixed he comes across as a somewhat generic character. And I get that that's the real Cloud, but that doesn't make him interesting.

[Anonymous No.8606449]

>>8606029
There seem to be two kinds of people when it comes to Remake. The ones who REALLY wanted a modern remake and were disappointed they got fucked with, and the people who had no strong opinion on the idea of remaking FFVII and were THRILLED to get fucked with.

[Anonymous No.8606472]

>>8606000
>Yuffie is cemented as my all time waifu
>but i wouldn't call her design fapbait
Why would you so blatantly contradict yourself like that

[Anonymous No.8607818]

Interesting thread lads. I had read about mistranslations in FF9 but it was evidently a bigger problem in 7. I was always confused over what "clone" was meant to be for example.
Also I always thought the "who's in control" between Sephiroth/Jenova was meant to be ambiguous, if not slightly in favour of Jenova. So for the ambiguity - the meteor could help Sephiroth achieve his goal of amassing enough energy to become a god, or it could easily help Jenova achieve its goal of destroying the planet. Either way, the meteor is bad.
But the way I thought Jenova might be ahead here is like a sort of bargain it has tricked Sephiroth into making - like it promised him that this method will turn him into a god, but really it'll just detonate the planet.
But if the creators said Sephiroth was meant to be in control all this time, that's that.

[Anonymous No.8607851]

>>8607818
They’re “clones” in the sense that they were injected with Jenova’s cells and fused with Mako like Sephiroth.

[Anonymous No.8608406]

>>8598410
Dang I don't remember the background to be this lazy

[Anonymous No.8608489]

>>8606449
I knew day 1 they were going to do it, by the time the game came out I had 19 years of Kingdom Hearts to prepare me for it. I just wanted to see how they were going to swerve us and how hard.
I was mostly disappointed at how much it stuck to the original until the finale act said "fuck it" and went off the deep end into shit that makes 0 sense without playing Crisis Core
Now with that final scene at the end of Intermission I have no goddamn idea where this story is going.

[Anonymous No.8608558]

>>8608489
>Now with that final scene at the end of Intermission I have no goddamn idea where this story is going.
I'm pretty sure that was the purpose of the ending. The time ghosts were essentially forcing the game to remain faithful as a remake, and I think their purpose was entirely to be killed off as a message from the writer that "this ain't a remake anymore boyo, this shit is going off the rails'

[Anonymous No.8608780]

>>8608489
I never played Crisis Core and understood it 100% with just the original game. I didn't play Integrade yet though so that may be relevant.

I was actually really surprised how they wove in the twist. I didn't think Square Enix had the level of self-awareness necessary to pull it off. For example, when Sephiroth showed up right after the bombing mission I rolled my eyes because my assumption was that they were doing the typical thing of shoehorning him into the story just for popularity's sake. And I get the sense that that's exactly what the writers knew I would think. Same with the ghosts harassing Aerith. I was like "oh they're changing stuff just for the sake of changing it." Like they were aware that previous FFVII material made moves like that and so they made you think it was more of the same but sneakily made a point to have it eventually make sense. Namely that in that case in particular Sephiroth was trying to delay Cloud so he wouldn't meet Aerith and the ghosts were forcing her to stay put. Same for the trickery in Shinra HQ with the video on the Ancients. Sephiroth hijacks it to show Cloud and co. a vision of the future but with tricky editing to make it look like a disaster and leaves out the part where he gets his ass kicked and the lifestream stops Meteor because he wants them to take the story off the rails so he can get a second chance. His fight with Cloud at the end isn't him trying to beat him, he's trying to goad him into doing what Aerith has been reluctant to do by feeding him half-truths. Every aspect of the story that seems like just a remake-ism, a casual deviation from the original for embellishment, is revealed to be related to the overarching plot twist. Even Aerith being startled in the opening as opposed to meditative is plot relevant since it's later implied that she's been subjected to a Days of Future Past type event and she's shaken by that. But it was meant to look like change for change's sake.

[Anonymous No.8608793]

>>8608558
I'm incredibly concerned for Barret's well being. He had waaaay too many heartwarming scenes with Marlene for it not to be a "one day away from retirement" setup. Not to mention the one fakeout that mirrors a similar situation in the original game with Cait Sith.

[Anonymous No.8608802]

>>8608558
No I meant is that ending implying that in the timeline where thanks to the ghosts being dead and Zack living, Aerith died instead?

[Anonymous No.8608818]

>>8608780
>I didn't play Integrade yet though so that may be relevant.
Well maybe one day in a few years (NieR Automata took 4 years for the pc ver to be fixed), it will play well on PC. But either way Intergrade is mostly a sidestory with Yuffie and how she ends up fighting Nero from Dirge before witnessing Sector 7's destruction, then we have a scene of the team walking to Kalm and stopping right outside of it.
Then this scene gets dropped out of nowhere which is what made people go crazy with speculation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5PQnw0lYI

[Anonymous No.8608820]

>>8600556
>No I get why the cannon killed it I just think it was weird that it happened so quickly without Weapon even accomplishing anything
I got the impression that was to illustrate that the planet, despite this fail safes, still can't defend itself. And that it's up to you to do something.

[Anonymous No.8608827]

>>8600638
Nobody cares about your bipolar disorder.

[Anonymous No.8608831]

>>8608820
I was about to say "Sapphire got no screen time because he doesn't look like a Gundam machine like the others" but then I remember it's based on a machine from Victory Gundam

[Anonymous No.8608837]

>>8608827
Did you mean to reply to someone else? They outright state that the reason the cannon got moved to Midgar and is being turned into a mako laser instead of a regular projectile cannon is for the explicit purpose of punching through Sephiroth's barrier. The reason Diamond Weapon showed up is to try and stop the cannon from firing and what the team was there to do was stall it until it was ready to fire.

[Anonymous No.8608845]

>>8608793
Everyone loves Barret in the remake, even the people who don't like the remake. He is portrayed flawlessly, it's exactly the character everyone remembers down to the smallest detail and even his reactions to the new shit feel exactly like how the original Barret would react.

[Anonymous No.8608848]

>>8608837
Oh, I did, lol. Misclicked I guess, I dunno.

[Anonymous No.8608875]

>>8608845
My only gripe is that I don't like the sunglasses. I know they gave all the characters little costume embellishments, probably to make them look less like cosplayers which would happen if you put the OG costumes on proportionally correct humans 1:1, but the sunglasses are very intrusive since you tend to want to see someone's eyes when they're emoting.

[Anonymous No.8608917]

>>8592636
It's because 90% of the people that played the original never saw the cutscene where Cloud and Zack were being chased by Shinra soldiers and Zack got killed. It puts the whole interaction with Aeris into a new perspective as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PD-xq1k6MQ

[Anonymous No.8609015]

>>8608875
I like that they gave an actual logical reason for him to wear sunglasses, to reduce the blinding effect of a gatling gun's muzzle flashes going off 3 feet from his face

[Anonymous No.8609031]

>>8609015
Not him and I mean yes kinda, but shooting glasses tend to be tinted yellow, not pure black. They went with sunglasses because that makes him look like Wesley Snipes in Blade.

[Anonymous No.8609062]

>>8607851
Kind of like the Genome Army from MGS1 I suppose, they had gene therapy using Big Boss's genes. But I can't recall if anyone in-game calls them a clone - other than the literal clone Liquid calling them his "siblings".
Anyway when I was young, I though Hojo meant the Dolly the sheep type of clone.

[Anonymous No.8609151]

Dirge of Cerberus established that when a planet is dying it journeys across the stars for a new planet.
I think Jenova could be the soul of another planet trying to join with the new one like Terra from ff9. Hence why it can dip into the lifestream and steal forms. FF Spirits Within played with similar ideas.

[Anonymous No.8609161]

>>8609151
Dirge didn't establish that, Advent Children did when Sephiroth revealed his plan to Cloud to use the planet as a spaceship to find a new one.

[Anonymous No.8609173]

>>8596538
huh? I can't remember any fucking. I would remember Tifa's epic naked tits if that occured.

[Anonymous No.8609178]

>>8592565
ff7's translation is fine
it's a meme that the story is hard to understand because of the translation
people are either retarded or played it when they were 6 and basic plot elements went over their head

[Anonymous No.8609180]

>>8609173
It's all implied but in a way that you couldn't possible misinterpret if you aren't 10 years old.

[Anonymous No.8609283]

>>8609015
I haven't played the remake but it's funny that this would be a problem, and not the noise that would make him go deaf even if he wore ear protection.

[Anonymous No.8609403]

>>8609062
I think a lot of people thought that because Dolly the Sheep was big news right around the time FFVII came out. Unfortunate terminology combined with not especially obvious visuals (they don't actually show Hojo's process) contributed to the confusion.

[Anonymous No.8609427]

>>8609178
>or played it when they were 6 and basic plot elements went over their head
I think this is what happened. Even at 12 or 13, which was when a LOT of people played it, it's very easy to miss stuff because plot points that were first introduced at hour 4 were sometimes not resolved until hour 28, so it's easy for the player who could have had multiple days or weeks between those events to forget what was already established and not make the connection. This would naturally make the game seem incredibly cerebral as it dropped seemingly crazy new plot points on your head. The whole reunion thing is what tends to mess people up because there is A LOT of minor foreshadowing you'd need to remember for it to make sense. FFVIII actually suffers similar problems. Unfortunately Squaresoft wasn't in the business of doing callbacks akin to "previously on..." segments you'd see in TV shows. But since people were typically not marathoning 60 hour RPGs when they're in 6th grade, it became a real issue in terms of actually digesting the story. That's why people even to this day think Sephiroth just wanted to destroy the planet since they only remember him trying to slam a giant rock into it but forget the reasons behind it.

[Anonymous No.8609434]

>>8609427
As an aside, I suspect Chrono Cross was a failed attempt at solving this problem by dropping the entire story on your head over the course of 20 minutes during the game's third act. It shows the kinds of problems the scenario writers kept running into during the PS1 days.

[Anonymous No.8609454]

>>8592563
>Same for Sephiroth and Jenova, like who is controlling who?
Sephiroth is dead. You don't fight Sephiroth once in the game. Every time you have a Sephiroth encounter its actually Jenova taking on Sephiroths form because he was the strongest host she ever had. That's why you dont see Sephiroth once before Jenova escapes in the Shinra tower. Also why when Sephiroth shows up on the boat, temple of the ancients, and whirlwind maze you actually fight Jenova. ie, "end of this body's usefulness" someone debate me about the final boss though. was Sephiroth revived or united with Jenova?

[Anonymous No.8609510]

>>8609454
Well the reason he looks the way he does during the One Winged Angel fight is because he looks to have lost half his body after his fall. The Jenova cells in his body are the reason he was able to pull a Captain America and survive.

[Anonymous No.8609515]

>>8609403
There's also the fact that replicating the process you used in making someone is not the same thing as cloning.

[Anonymous No.8609517]

>>8609454
Well the reason he looks the way he does during the One Winged Angel fight is because he looks to have lost half his body after his fall. The Jenova cells in his body are the reason he was able to pull a Captain America and survive.

[Anonymous No.8609526]

>>8609454
>Also why when Sephiroth shows up on the boat, temple of the ancients, and whirlwind maze you actually fight Jenova. ie, "end of this body's usefulness"
So you're not seeing Jenova in those instances, you're seeing Sephiroth projecting himself through the Sephiroth clones by using the Jenova cells inside them. The thing you fight after is effectively the clone turning into a resident evil monster from the cells.

[Anonymous No.8609532]

>>8609526
Oh, I didn't notice someone else said it here >>8592737

[Anonymous No.8609535]

>>8609427
you could play 30 minutes a day and still get the plot of ff7
i really think it's an iq issue

[Anonymous No.8609537]

>>8609517
By the way, they were originally planned to be siblings. So this imagery was going to be important.

[Anonymous No.8609546]

>>8609526
Are you saying that you only see jenova in shinra tower and also as SYNTHESIS and thats it? the rest are clones that mutate? makes sense i suppose

[Anonymous No.8609548]

>>8609526
I really wish the original game was clearer about this. It's very easy to misinterpret the scenes as Sephiroth just siccing boss monsters on you as a parting gift after running away. I actually thought that was what was happening for years. It would make the Reunion thing make so much more sense to people who are otherwise confused by it.

[Anonymous No.8609553]

>>8609546
If you've ever watched The Thing (do it, it's amazing) the monster doesn't actually have to appear much. It's more about that the monster can be anybody and can replicate.

[Anonymous No.8609554]

One thing I actually liked about the compilation stuff is that Cloud's personality until halfway into Disk 2 isn't actually based on Zack, it's based on Cloud's perception of the cool guy he thought Zack was. When it reality, Zack was a giant dork with girl problems that got where he did as a combination of simply being strong, and the fact that everyone above him in rank either kept getting killed or deserting so he earned his promotions Klingon-style (or to be more accurate, Terran Empire-style if we're talking ST). Cloud never saw that, Cloud saw the guy who was friendly but always professional and seemingly the best there was at the job besides Sephiroth himself.

[Anonymous No.8609559]

>>8609546
>>8609548
The game isn't being very clear about it that's true, but once you know that's what's happening the scenes make far more sense. Then AC directly used the concept with Kadaj becoming an avatar of Sephiroth, and one of the clones in Remake does it exactly as I said where he becomes the Jenova you fight in the Shinra building.

[Anonymous No.8609567]

>>8609559
Marco, he's also the clone that Sephiroth keeps using to come talk to Cloud.

[Anonymous No.8609569]

>>8609554
It's actually really accurate at portraying crippling insecurity. Cloud's idea of coolness is based on his internalized biases. It's kind of like how people in high school will automatically assume the jocks are jerkasses even though they may not be but since they will see every action through the lens of jerkassery no matter what they see will only affirm their biases.

[Anonymous No.8609595]

>>8609546
I mean when you think about it, SYNTHESIS actually looks like some kind of alien lifeform, all the "Jenovas" you fight up until that point look more like a human covered in massive cancerous tumors growing out of control.

[Anonymous No.8609712]

>>8608780
You know the really wierd part? The fact that the time ghosts don't at all interfere with Yuffie and Sonon fighting Nero implies that happened in the original timeline.

[Anonymous No.8609737]

>>8603456
I know it’s Kotaku, but bear with it. He goes over how the translator misinterpreted a lot of the tone. Not the translators fault though, they were working with a raw data readout of the Japanese script.


https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZefYEaNUJ7w&t=12s

[Anonymous No.8609768]

>>8592653
Had the exact same experience my first time playing FF7, literally no fucking clue what was going on for half the game.

[Anonymous No.8609910]

It’s ok if you guys didn’t understand the plot to FFVII, because neither did SquareEnix judging by everything related to the game they’ve released since

[Anonymous No.8610072]

>>8593165
And now the worthless "remake" time travel spinoff ensures the younger generation won't get to experience that awesome narrative in favor of some nonsense about muh destiny

[Anonymous No.8610092]

>>8593165
This just means that most people like this game for all the wrong reasons, because it's shit gameplay-wise, even compared to other FF games.

[Anonymous No.8610214]

>>8610072
Who would play Remake without having played the original?

[Anonymous No.8610227]

>>8610092
People say this but they forget how basic FFIV was and how clunky FFVI was. Really only FFV is better.

[Anonymous No.8610764]

>>8608406
well it would have looked a lot different on a CRT screen, screen resolution was thought of very differently pre 2000. Same reason why mario's polygon's are all fucked up in SM64 when he's far away from the camera if you play on an lcd screen; it's because those fine details aren't discernible on those good ol' fuzzy critical race theory teevees.

[Anonymous No.8610770]

>>8606000
She’s got a nice ass.

[Anonymous No.8610919]

>>8608917
I’ve never seen this shit before and I’ve beat the game three times. Why would they put the main characters plot development in such an Easter egg?

[Anonymous No.8610981]

>>8610072
It's not like the original was taken off of stores. Or do you genuinely believe younger people won't touch anything that looks old?

[Anonymous No.8610986]

>>8610764
>Same reason why mario's polygon's are all fucked up in SM64 when he's far away from the camera if you play on an lcd screen; it's because those fine details aren't discernible on those good ol' fuzzy critical race theory teevees.
No, that's because the game uses a different, lower quality model when Mario is far away from the camera so that it's easier to process everything else you can see

[Anonymous No.8611040]

>>8610986
No, see, we're both correct. You're describing the reason the developers made it that way, to better allocate processing power. I was describing why that works and isn't a noticeable effect unless you're playing on a non native resolution, ie one that is higher than what you'd have on a CRT. But this has nothing to do with Final Fantasy, I was just using it as an example of retro games' graphics not translating well to modern high screen resolutions.

[Anonymous No.8611072]

Can I just say that Aerith is a logical spelling/pronunciation?

[Anonymous No.8611343]

>>8610764
I mean how they literally just loop one image

[Anonymous No.8611379]

>>8611343
AAH ok now I see what you meant.

Well as they say Ctrl C + Ctrl V is the fondest friend of anyone who works with software. . .

You've got a good eye I have to say, that went over my head.Guess thay were hoping most people playing this game would have my level of astuteness and not yours

[Anonymous No.8611439]

>>8611343
Now that is some Hanna-Barbera shit

[Anonymous No.8611497]

>>8611343
The driver was just going around in circles and Zack didn't realise. That's why he never makes it to Midgar.

[Anonymous No.8611515]

>>8611497
fuck yuuki yuuna

[Anonymous No.8611552]

>but I have armor
>let's find out

???

[Anonymous No.8612801]

>>8611072
I just always named her after my high school girlfriend

[Anonymous No.8612806]

>>8611072
I never understood why people get so hung up on the pronunciation, have they never heard of the name Keith?

[Anonymous No.8612845]

>ZACH
>ZACH
>HE'S A LEGO MANIAC

[Anonymous No.8614367]

[Anonymous No.8615043]

>>8592529
Because they were trying to recycle the identity crisis plot point from Xenogears after that was rejected as FFVII's script

[Anonymous No.8615060]

>>8610214
Because the whole point of a remake is to be a reintroduction of a classic story to a new generation, with modern visual fidelity. Older players need to realize they aren't the target audience.

[Anonymous No.8615095]

>>8599540
yea yea and all this is bad writing somehow according to 4chan and >>8592563 this dickhead?

[Anonymous No.8616120]

>>8615060
In this case they clearly were though.

[Anonymous No.8616130]

>>8615095
I think people just don't like that Jenova is just kinda there. It's both integral to the story while also being kinda random. They totally understand Lavos in Chrono Trigger because there it's the last boss and the driving theme. Jenova meanwhile is more like the thing that facilitates everything else that happens in FFVII. So it's both a critical plot device to a story that has nothing to do with aliens or outer space and is also a random alien that crash landed ages ago from outer space.

[Anonymous No.8616163]

>>8592840
>likewise in chrono trigger theories. anytime there's something tough to explain "the entity did it".

What entity? The only time I remember that being brought up, is when one of the elders who got dropped out of Zeal, I forgot which one, mention that they think the planet or some entity specifically placed Chrono on their path to save the planet - and it wasn't just Luccas tech fucking up.

[Anonymous No.8616187]

>>8616163
The characters have this weird conversation during the campfire scene when Lucca has an opportunity to save her mom. They suddenly go into an existential dialog about some mysterious entity that might be guiding them and is responsible for what's been happening. Within the context of Chrono Trigger's overall story it's barely relevant but it does stand out as a strange plot point that doesn't ever come up again or have any resolution. One working theory is that the gates appeared because the "entity" was giving the heroes an opportunity to change the course of history in the only way that it could and that the reason Lucca's gate is red instead of blue is that this gate was Lavos's doing because if Lucca's mother never got injured by Taban's machine then Lucca may not have decided to become an inventor and therefore wouldn't have invented the telepod or gate key to begin with. But it's not clear if Lavos has the complex intelligence required to engage in that kind of indirect warfare.

[Anonymous No.8616471]

>>8610214
>Who would play Remake without having played the original?

Most modern gamers aren't gonna touch a 25 year old video game with simple graphics. It's baffling that Square was working with the assumption that "everyone" played FF7, so they should make a meta spin-off instead about time travel since just redoing the game would be "boring". Instead, you got a lot of new players who were genuinely very confused as hell by the ending.

At least 50% of FF7R's players never touched the original. There's a yearly attrition of gamers who just stop with the hobby and move on with their lives and new gamers coming in all the time. Those who were gamers in 1997 are a minority in today's world.

[Anonymous No.8616489]

>>8616471
>Most modern gamers aren't gonna touch a 25 year old video game with simple graphics.
Right but if they aren't fans of FFVII they're likely not going to care about its remake either. Obviously some percentage of people will hop onto a series with the remake but that's probably a minority. Remakes are fanwankery by their very nature.

[Anonymous No.8616528]

>>8611072
There is no "th" sound in Japanese, so no.

[Anonymous No.8616668]

>>8616489
what the fuck are you talking about? sequels to popular titles tend to perform better than the first game because word has gotten out about them but people want to jump in on the new part. ff7 is an enormous name but not everyone that's interested in it from the public conscious has actually played it.

[Anonymous No.8616707]

Because it's a shit story written by a brain-damaged edgy 12 year old made as the glue between poorly done combat sequences and trash minigames.
Style over substance shit, just like other JRPGs.

[Anonymous No.8616764]

>>8611072
a common sign of autism is thinking that nonsense words sound logical or natural.

[Anonymous No.8616831]

>>8616764
Within the context of a fantasy game, it’s not.

[Anonymous No.8616937]

>>8592668

FINALLY. Someone who actually understands the plot and character motivations.

[Anonymous No.8616957]

It's funny how age changes your perspective. Being in my 30s and watching the new Spider-Man movies it's amazing how much I see Peter as an actual child. Like it resonates with me in a totally different way that Spider-Man used to when I was growing up. I don't even dislike that but it does mean the lens I view things through has changed. I bring this up because when I played all these video games for the first time the characters were always older than me. Now I play FFVII and I'm older than fucking Barret. So A) this feels bad. And B) it makes Cloud's struggle with insecurity A LOT more sympathetic.

[Anonymous No.8617608]

>>8592668
>His reward was more self confidence and Tifa riding his dick.
its funny when you put it that way but it's true, and makes FF7 a much happier story.

[Anonymous No.8617761]

[Anonymous No.8617939]

>>8617761

[Anonymous No.8617960]

>>8617761
ANON NO

[Anonymous No.8618053]

>>8611072
I don't understand why they went with Aerith to make it sound like you have a lisp when anyone says it

[Anonymous No.8618086]

>>8615060
yeah a standard remake
ff7r is very clearly a sequel from chapter 2 onward
blame square's shitty marketing

[Anonymous No.8618096]

>>8617960
Don’t deny it, you’d fug female Sephirosu.

[Anonymous No.8618176]

>>8603168
>Was the translation actually bad

[Anonymous No.8618314]

>>8592529
Only exceptional people like Sephiroth or Zack can handle exposure to Mako. Being in Hojo's test tube completely shattered his mind

[Anonymous No.8618319]

>>8592563
>Same for sephiroth and jenova, like who is controlling who?
Jesus fucking Christ. Sephiroth is controlling Jenova. It's why the reunion is centered around him instead of the clones flocking to Shinra Tower around Jenova like Hojo theorized

[Anonymous No.8618336]

>>8609595
Square was really into alien parasites around the mid 90's

[Anonymous No.8619082]

I like turtles

[Anonymous No.8619114]

>>8592529
He didn't think he was Zack, he thought he was in Soldier like Zack. His mind got twisted through Mako poisoning. This shit isn't rocket science. Perfect example why modern JRPGs are dumbed down.

[Anonymous No.8619132]

>>8616957
I never realized why Cloud remained my favorite character for so long until I got closer to my thirties. And then I realized that I empathize with a lot of the things his character represents. Him pretending to be more mature than he actually was when he was a teenager. And wanting desperately to be like the larger than life heroes of his day. And just as overall desperation to be someone other than himself because he sees himself as a failure even though literally no one else does. Seriously he did all of this for Tifa when in reality Tifa just wanted someone to be there for her when she needed it. He had her the day he was the only one to chase her into the mountains but because of his own insecurities he just didn't know it. He killed Sephiroth. Something no one was able to do. Aerith wants to see the person under the mask.
Barrett truly believes he's the ultra badass he says he is. But the only one who doesn't believe in Cloud is Cloud. The whole game is Cloud learning that he doesn't need to pretend. He's always been enough. I really do love this character even if it's a meme to say that.

I never quite got that last part for myself. I hope I get there someday

[Anonymous No.8619160]

>>8606000
>her design is the complete opposite
yeah

[Anonymous No.8619214]

>>8619160
I'm amazed that her remake outfit is an exact 1:1, unbuttoned short shorts and all

[Anonymous No.8619668]

>>8606000
>This spunky teen with her midriff exposed and the unbuttoned shorts isn't fap bait
OK dude

[Anonymous No.8619684]

>>8603474
You don't need anything other than the original game if you aren't a retard

[Anonymous No.8619874]

>>8593756
yeah, Jenova is just a means to the ends of Sephiroth who did a personality 180 and everything he did after his encounter with mother was working towards propagating the Jenova organism.

[Anonymous No.8619883]

>>8618319
the Jenova in shinra tower was just her age's Sephiroth

[Anonymous No.8620172]

>>8609737
So basically what is complained about is that they used "received" instead of "got" and that Cloud sounds more like an angsty teen surfer dude than an action hero with one-liners, but the content is mostly the same? That works for me. Something is always lost in translation.

[Anonymous No.8620293]

What exactly IS Bizarro Sephiroth?
aside from being his least marketable form

[Anonymous No.8620317]

>>8620293
From the FF >wiki:
>Bizarro∙Sephiroth is called "Rebirth Sephiroth" in Japanese. Translators appear to have been misunderstood it as 'reverse', hence the English name. Bizzarro means bizarre in Italian and Portuguese.
Combine that with the song that plays - "Birth of a God", it's probably meant to be like the incubation phase ahead of the one winged lad.

[Anonymous No.8620381]

>>8620317
Looks a bit like Ultimecia.

[Anonymous No.8621491]

>>8592529
Better than believing he's Big Boss.

[Anonymous No.8621925]

>>8593085
is painful that squeenix put the moron who less understands it at the helm, how old is nomura? like 50 learn to write dangit

[Anonymous No.8621978]

>>8621925
Remake's writers thankfully understand the original just fine. But everything between the original and Remake is really bad about missing the point.

[Anonymous No.8621997]

>>8615060
>the fans of the product arent the target
get that retarded shit for twitter tantrums

[Anonymous No.8622032]

>>8621925
>>8621978
Nomura was one of the writers on FF7, so was Nojima who is the main story writer of FF7 and nearly every other FF7 related main story.

That said Nomura was only brought on late in remakes development to help with deadline management because the game had fallen so far behind and the person who should be considered the "story director" is Motomu Toriyama who was an event planner on 7 and designed parts like the Wall Market, Temple of the Ancients and most of the parts involving Cloud and Aerith. Motomu has been the main FF director since 10 and remake has way more in common with his directed games than they do Noruma's

[Anonymous No.8622043]

>>8600443
It's pretty much the reason why Shinra is still in control of the world despite the apocalypse happening because they're the only ones capable of fighting off Weapons so people look to them for help instead of just going crazy and cracking each other's heads open.

[Anonymous No.8622101]

>>8600708
From the unused text script the "Watch out! This isn't a normal reactor!" is actually a line from the Nibelheim reactor flashback most likely spoken by Sephiroth. It is unused dialogue that was just left there and not used for the scene in the flashback.

Aside from that the white text on black background the rest of the time is Cloud's true identity as evidenced by it talking about Cloud's past events like falling at Mt Nibel with Tifa when they were kids etc and how that scene is staged in the Remake. The staging is similar to how the same concept is handled in Xenogears with Fei

[Anonymous No.8622242]

>>8622101
Remake is really good for clarifying a lot of stuff that wasn't meant to be confusing in the original but just turned out that way because the game engine was too rudimentary to convey it clearly.

[Anonymous No.8623549]

>>8622101
Just did a little digging to make sure, the dialogue of "Watch out! This isn't a normal reactor!" was from the Shinra Manor in the flashback. Sephiroth does say it but it's a little different in the old script

[ In the Basement of the Shinra Manor ]

>Sephiroth: “Cloud. That mako reactor is no ordinary power plant. Shinra’s true motive lies elsewhere.”

>Cloud: “What do you mean?”

>Sephiroth: “The energy that permeates the earth of this planet is no mere energy. Where do you think it comes from in the first place? Where does this substance, unfathomable by our science, originate from? Does it just come from nothing? Does the planet make it? And where does this energy end up? Is it just electricity to power a light? No, it’s not. Shinra started to catch on to its true potential. Their test of that is this mako reactor. And me, as well…”

Clearly the Nibelheim flashback went through a ton of rewrites as they went along so some lines in Cloud's "headache" texts were left but were taken out/rewritten for the actual scene. Another example is the

>In my veins courses the blood of the Ancients.
>われこそ古代種の血をひきし者。

>I am one of the rightful heirs to this planet!
>この星の正統なる後継者!」

which Cloud "remembers" after the Sector 7 collapse but is never said during the actual flashback.

[Anonymous No.8623640]

I think the text of the game in strongly decided in the direction of "Sephiroth" being Jenova or being controlled by Jenova and the only reason anyone feels like it could actually be him is because they think he's cool and don't want him dominated by space mommy

[Anonymous No.8623736]

>all these remake shills

Remake doesn’t get the tome of FF7 right. Sephy was like the shark in Jaws, an ominous force, larger than life, who you don’t actually fight till late in the game. You’re always a step behind him and witness his handiwork.

But no, in Remake you fight him right there in Mostar because zoomers are dopamine addled little shits who can’t appreciate mounting suspense. They NEED le epic brooding swordsman to have a showdown with them right there in Midgar. Literally fanfic tier.

[Anonymous No.8623818]

>>8623736
Did you actually play the game? The tone shift and Sephiroth's motivations are story relevant because it's a sequel.

[Anonymous No.8623834]

I don't give a shit about the game. I just want to watch Tifa getting impaled by BBC.

[Anonymous No.8623870]

>>8623834
too bad, watch aerith get impaled by the SBS instead

[Anonymous No.8623914]

>>8623549
>just did a little digging
you could have just said you are a colossal faggot instead

[Anonymous No.8624249]

>>8623818
>Did you actually play the game?

No.

Also Midgar slums look like a chummy village, another aspect of the tome they fucked up.

[Anonymous No.8624323]

>>8592529
Because cloud was zack's nobody after he unversed with angeal's darkness to form Genesis' recusant's sigil to become a dream eater in order to control minerva's angeal penance so he could defeat bahamut fury

[Anonymous No.8625756]

>>8624323
Kingdom Hearts was a mistake.